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Florida Judge Declares Entire Healthcare Law Void
After a month and a half ago, a Virginia Judge found a key provision of the healthcare law unconstitutional, today Roger Vinson, Judge in a federal district court in Florida has found the entire healthcare law void.
From TPM:
A federal district court judge in Florida ruled today that a key provision in the new health care law is unconstitutional, and that the entire law must be voided.
Roger Vinson, a Ronald Reagan appointee, agreed with the 26 state-government plaintiffs that Congress exceeded its authority by passing a law penalizing individuals who do not have health insurance.
"I must reluctantly conclude that Congress exceeded the bounds of its authority in passing the Act with the individual mandate," Vinson writes. "Because the individual mandate is unconstitutional and not severable, the entire Act must be declared void."
And some more from Bloomberg:
President Barack Obama’s health care law, assailed as an abuse of federal power in a 26-state lawsuit, was ruled unconstitutional by a U.S. judge who said Congress overstepped its authority to regulate commerce.
U.S. District Judge Roger Vinson in Pensacola, Florida, declared the entire law unconstitutional today in a 78-page opinion. He said the law’s provision requiring Americans over 18 to obtain insurance coverage exceeded Congress’ powers under the commerce clause of the U.S Constitution.
Florida filed suit on behalf of 13 states on March 23, the same day Obama signed into law the legislation intended to provide the U.S. with almost universal health-care coverage. Seven states joined the suit last year, and six this year. Virginia sued separately on March 23 and Oklahoma filed its own suit on Jan. 21.
“Regardless of how laudable its attempts may have been to accomplish these goals in passing the act, Congress must operate within the bounds established by the Constitution,” the judge wrote. “This case is not about whether the act is wise or unwise legislation. It is about the constitutional role of the federal government.”
The ruling by Vinson, who was named to the federal bench by President Ronald Reagan, a Republican, in 1983, may be appealed to the U.S. Court of Appeals in Atlanta. An appeals court in Richmond, Virginia, is already slated in May to hear challenges to two conflicting lower-court rulings in that state, one upholding the legislation, the other invalidating part of it.
Supreme Court
The U.S. Supreme Court may ultimately be asked to consider the issue. According to Vinson, of the four courts that have ruled on the health-care act, two have found that Congress exceeded its authority, while two have not. Vinson’s ruling is the first to invalidate the entire act.
“The judge has confirmed what many of us knew from the start: Obamacare is an unprecedented and unconstitutional infringement on the liberty of the American people,” Florida Governor Rick Scott, a Republican, said in a statement.
The 955-page law bars insurers from denying coverage to people who are sick and from imposing lifetime limits on costs. It also includes pilot projects to test ideas like incentives for better results and bundled payments to medical teams for patient care.
That is all.
And BTFD.
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Yikes! It's on like Donkey Kong...
"There's a shitstorm coming Rand." Jim Lahey
I hope you go see the boys do their live show. In the interim, we're all takin' the shit tornado right back to Oz.
Pass the booze.
Is there a derivative to short Obama administration? I wanna go all in on that one on a 10x leverage.
Well there goes the only solution to save medicare. So long, hardly ever knew ya.
This 'judge' knows the Supreme Court will overturn his decision. Just like with the Rahm Emanuel case (not being allowed onto the Chicago Mayoral ballot), you only have to pay off the highest court, it seems. Lets hope it is merely cynicism talking.
Any way, check out the latest from the Capital Research Institute:
The World's Addiction to Credit
http://www.capitalresearchinstitute.org
“Rapid credit growth is forecast in developing markets, which will add almost US$ 50 trillion to their credit stock by 2020. China’s credit demand will lead global credit growth: it will require US$ 20 trillion more credit in 2020 than in 2009, with 80% of that growth going to the wholesale segment. In developed markets, including the large Western economies, most of the growth will come from the government segment. In North America alone, the value of government bonds is expected to grow by US$ 12 trillion to 2020. Deleveraging in overheated retail and wholesale segments of the developed world will be significant.”
http://www.capitalresearchinstitute.org
Unconstitutional bitchez!
Like I said before, Obama and his administration will probably go down as the WORST in USSofA history...
Um...no.
Not even close. They are bad, sure, but he hasn't killed nearly enough people (yet) to be considered among such failures as FDR, Wilson, or LBJ.
Aren't those chaps considered to be the best among U.S. presidents?
Damn, if ObamaCare gets repealed, then Jakarta Jim's only other accomplishment will have been to turn the Military into one vast homosexual playground.
In a parallel dimension perhaps. I would rank them as the three worst as well.
<dup>
No doubt, Herd, this is a big fat nothingburger.
The Feds don't care what's Constitutional, especially talking about what some yahoo judge in Florida rules is Constitutional or not.
It's strange that anyone would think this is an important story...in a country where the Feds can read your email and listen to your phone calls without cause or warrant. In a country which wages war at will without declaration from Congress. In a country where your "First Amendment right" (ha) to assemble peacefully is dependent on receiving authorization from the local government to meet in a "Free Speech Zone." Where you can't buy a gun without a 3 day wait and a background check. Where the Supreme Court steps into the national election process despite Constitutional decree that such elections are in the hands of the States, and THEN never bothers to follow up to improve the system. Where law enforcement armed with automatic rifles and grenades performs "no-knock" raids of non-violent citizens in their own homes. Where our soldiers torture prisoners to death because we spent 5 years coming up with the right legal arguments about why it's not torture and why they're not prisoners.
Now some asshole in FL says this bullshit healthcare law is unconstitutional? Fuckin' hilarious!
So what is anyone going to DO ABOUT IT?
Nothing to see here. This is just a PR play that won't make a lick of difference in whether the law is changed.
well said +1000
We don't have the proper catalyst yet, but we will. It needs to be strong enough to be self sustaining and irrefutable. In my opinion anything short of the truth about CIA and Mossad involvement in 9/11 will fizzle out or be spun. The universe itself is acting against them, it is inevitable.
sentence #1 - check
sentence #2 - check
the rest.....remember jfk?....the truth shall set you to pee
doubledutchbus..oooops
sentence #1 - check
sentence #2 - check
the rest.....remember jfk?....the truth shall set you to pee
I had to read this twice...agree with most...citizens don't directly elect the president, as it should be.
This caught my eye..."Where our soldiers torture prisoners to death because we spent 5 years coming up with the right legal arguments about why it's not torture and why they're not prisoners."...I have to ask.
I assume you mean the five year policy of rendition started under Clinton, Berger, Clark in the 90's?...however our soldiers never touched them.
If you mean "waterboarding"...that's considered rough foreplay in some parts of San Francisco ;-)
Waterboarding is torture when other countries do it, but some Americans have decided it's not torture when we do it. I won't speak to that--it's self-explanatory.
So eliminate from discussion any deaths that occurred during waterboarding sessions, and over a hundred non-prisoners were found dead from complications of injuries they received after being non-tortured by our soldiers. Beatings, suspension from the ceiling, long periods of sleep-deprivation, take your pick.
The military investigators have ruled many of these deaths "murder." But hey, military investigators tend to be anti-American anyway, and since these people weren't prisoners, it doesn't count.
Aside from any facts bearing on any aspect of the circumstances, there's a good argument in there.
The real elegance is that the same soldiers who did their best to comply with their orders without losing their minds and humanity are the ones most likely to end up with dishonorable discharges and/or brig-time for the non-crimes of brutality that didn't occur against the non-prisoners.
Now THAT'S "Constitutional."
No slithering...speak to Clinton's rendition.
Partisan hack.
If you read my rants and think I'd support Clinton in any way, you're a moron. His rendition policy is exactly the kind of anti-Constitutional legalist sleaze that led me to anarchism in the first place.
So fucking what?
Of course you know I'm just jackin around with the thought process...but...
So you (or me) agree Clinton giving intel to nations who don't uphold our standard of jurisprudence was a bad idea.
So far so good.
Now what about the problem with waterboarding, which is something we put our own troops through during training?
So the logical position here must be...if it's voluntary waterboarding it must be OK (like in San Francisco), if it's involuntary waterboarding it must be torture.
Glad we got that sorted out...LOL.
I guess we don't even need to volunteer opinions on the fining of restaurant recipes in New York City because the state says they contain too much salt or fat or sugar...it must be all good ;-)
There's no problem at all with waterboarding as long as you ignore that all-hallowed Constitution which maintains some rather quaint poetic language in it about cruel and unusual punishment.
Oh...I just figured it out...this is all about you and your little menu thing. We obviously don't share a common sense of perspective.
In my opinion, there's likely something very unusual about you if you'd equate being assessed a fine with being tortured to death. But I don't blame you for it--we don't choose what we are. If you get your weenie stand's case up in front of the Supremes, I'll come vouch for you.
"Oh...I just figured it out...this is all about you and your little menu thing."
A small thing leading to larger things.
"We obviously don't share a common sense of perspective."
I think we do. You just prefer to concentrate on painting the house while I point out the termites under the wood.
"In my opinion, there's likely something very unusual about you..."
I wish it were more pervasive.
"If you get your weenie stand's case up in front of the Supremes, I'll come vouch for you."
LOL...your a good man, I knew I could count on you to help me stand up against them.
Take care.
++
Also, it's a potential hornets nest for further dividing the American people.
"They took my mom's healthcare away! Mu'fuckas! I'm burning some shit today!"
Arrgh!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHkUKLLm7Z0
The War Aginst the Barbary Pirates was undeclared. Read the AUMF for that war. Compare it to the AUMF for the current war. How did Jefferson get away with an undeclared war? Didn't he read the Constitution?
You know - it is like the preferred mode for Paulites is ignorance. And that is despite the point that I think they have domestic policy 99+% right.
"Is there a derivative to short Obama administration?"
If Their Careers Were Their Stock Price
Which one of those moronic, incompetent pricks would you short with SO many to choose from?
You would have to make a Short ETF for all these loser pricks who are going down career wise...
Only Fail Upward... a la The Rube-Boy Rubin
It is a good thing that our Ruling Oligarchy only fail upwards...
Wouldn't matter. You would lose out in the daily settlement.
If you find it .... hell I'm ALL in!! :-)
Me too, but sense I'm already upside down, I'll throw my own shorts in.
Found it!
http://goldprice.com
I am Chumbawamba.
Oh thank the Heavenly Father! If you are too poor to have insurance it means God does not love you. Try harder!
If you are "too poor" to have insurance, just go to the hospital, anyway.
They will still treat you for free, and the people who have insurance will continue to pay the hospital bills of everybody.
The system has been working like that for many years.
Liberals are losers. Too bad, so sad.
You Betcha! They are losers! Happily they will be left behind to cannibalize each other while me and my ZH brothers are in the arms of the loving Father!
Nobama!
We've seen this shtick before and it's not particularly entertaining if for no other reason than the fact that most folks here at ZH are unaligned with Teams Red and Blue. Take me for instance. I'm an objectivist, anarcho-capitalistic, pro-Palestinian, atheist Tea Partier. And I'm one of the less interesting people around here.
How's your little "Devout Republican" joke going to compete with that? Free market individualism has made ZH a far more entertaining and informative place than your centrally planned, partisan humor could ever hope to equal.
Kudos... Impressive resume...as for me
Social liberatarian, anti-corporatist, eco-realist, pragmatic, progressive, empiricist, atheist sprinkled with a smattering of Buddhist. That being said I'd sooner vote for the devil incarnate than any Republican that has "graced" my ballot.
</snark>DR loves you!<snark>
Palin 2012!</snark></body></html>
Sorry, but the trolling nets have been drawn up for evening.. Better luck next time.
Agreed, at least the devil seems to be a thinking being, not a rigid, brain-dead dogmatic
cliche-infested republican.
A sincere bow to your eloquence.
+1000
eating sinners is a sin, pink jesus.
I junked you. Not because I disagree with you, but its how you said it.
This is what gives religion a bad name. People that think they know what the creator would think.
I bet you think he hates "gays" too.
I wouldn't know about that. Personally, I can't understand why people would chose to live that lifestyle.
Evil projection puppet..
because they would like to stick their love rocket that your good lord created up your poo poo passage?
you're right about one thing, when you say they "chose" it, you truly do not understand
Just like how our friend here chose ignorance as his lifestyle.
I am Chumbawamba.
For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”
We hear that some among you are idle and disruptive. They are not busy; they are busybodies.
2 Thessalonians 3:10-11
Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell >your< possessions and >give< to the poor, and >you< will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." Matt 19:21
When you use the coercive power of government to take from one neighbor in order to give to another it is neither charitable nor compassionate, it is a crime.
There is no collective salvation and no collective guilt.
If you feel you must have medical insurance (it's not "health insurance") perhaps you don't feel God loves you.
Unconstitutional, mo'er f***ers!
So I assume the insurance companies will refund and rescind all those massive premium increases that were rolled up just before the law took effect.......right?
All those legit PAIN CLINICS that will go down because of it...
NO MORE CHEAP DOPE DOG!!!
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1981582,00.html
Cog,
Oh, No.
We got screwed, and we will stay screwed unless individuals, and companies bring separate suits.
And no, I wont get back my $2500.00 increase either.
When a law is passed that is not in line with the Constitution, it is an illegal LAW, and therfore is NOT TO BE OBEYED
Damn.
It's almost as if the insurance companies planned it this way. But that couldn't be....right? I mean insurance companies wouldn't collude with the Obama admin to pull a fast one. It's not like they were told in advance this law was unconstitutional.
This ruling was out of the blue impossible to predict. Right? Right? Hello, is there anyone home?
and it's not like they had multiple secret white house meetings with drug and insurance promising their take with no real compromises just mandates then refused to disclose the contents under the new open government policies. Dick has his oil buddies, Obama has everyone else. Makes me sick. Where's my Egyptian walking stick?
Karl Denninger predicted it the day after the law was passed. He figured it was a scam to make political hay, collect 3 years of taxes then scuttle the law before the government had to pay out any benefits.
Karl Denninger also predicted that burnt toast is crunchy and leaves a lot of crumbs. Is there anything that Miracle Man cannot forsee?
I am Chumbawamba.
Some have speculated it's Obama's slight-of-hand way of taking over the medical insurance industry, get companies to accept heavy govt regs with the mandated coverage carrot then take the carrot away.
Yep, anyone assuming the health care law wasn't specifically designed to help the insurance companies and providers continue to ass rape the populace are either obscenely ignorant or clinically insane. Remember friends, they've already won either way.
Maybe next time we'll actually get socialized medicine. You know, like the one people over 65, people under 26, and non-working people between 26-65 currently get. Yeah, it's awesome that the only people not guaranteed health care are working people between 26-65. Pretty fucking stupid, eh?
L.M.A.O.
Obviously, the fat lady isn't singing yet, but you do ask a good question.
traderjoe
"Yikes! It's on like Donkey Kong..."
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=178811
DHS has to be salivating over this development:
At a recent presentation for investors, Microsoft said the ability to see into consumer's living rooms means advertising opportunities. Kinect's cameras can be used to identify people, or objects. Then share shopper's preferences with advertisers.
http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2011/01/31/am-microsofts-...
Microsoft's new Kinect video game system can potentially see what you're doing in your living room. Sound spooky? It could be a boon for advertisers.
Sounds like a MAJOR violation of LAW.
I see many $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ in lawsuits ahead.
Microsoft SUCKS.
DosZap
Way back in the early Eighties I heard rumors that any speaker could used as a microphone for BIGOV wiretap purposes.
Then there is that electromagnetic trick for capturing a computer screen through walls.
I read a Stross novel with a subplot that intelligence agencies were using LARPERS as unknowing covert operatives. Part of the plot was the Chinese were exchanging intelligence information via online games.
MS actions are no surprise. I'm baffled they didn't think of it sooner.
"Microsoft SUCKS."
Why would any one use ANY of Douche Bag Gate's over priced defective software?
The moron is a multi Billionaire at your computing expense and he STILL cuts his hair with a chili bowl for crissakes...
Isn't that a clue he's an idiot?
New bumper sticker:
<If You Ain't Linux... You Ain't>
YES, and better yet, it does away with the 3.8% sales tax on selling your HOME!!!!!!!!.
On my best day, I could never figure out a way to Fk regular Americans in so many diffent orfices.
Harry's urinal cake business is going to take a bath.
He has since diversified into old fashioned rectal thermometers.
diversity can be a pain in the ass
This is a dedication for the bernank:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=953PkxFNiko
No medicine for the sheeple.
No doctor, no nurse, no pills.
Muslim (wars) first.
Breaking news : GOP to stop the Obama, on war 24/7 since election.
Only for YOU, monkeys.
Best news I've heard in a long time.
Actually for those of us stuck in a monopoly state and held in the deathgrip of one company, its pretty awful news.
Premiums are now so high due to a complete lack of any competition, that insured people here can't pay the hospital bills.
And the hospitals depend on cost shifting.
So our hospitals are closing. We're fucked.
BCBS premuims in Florida have doubled since Obama was elected.
I confirm that.
I thought you were in Bolivia
Our business is in Peru. If the Ds get a clean sweep in 2012, I may yet move down there. And take my money with me.
Peru, Putaz!
Perhaps you could get your congresscritter to allow us serfs to purchase insurance across state lines and without onerous mandates.. Nahh, too damn easy...
At which point the insurance companies would be governed by NO particular State insurance oversight agency -- free to run rampant over the broken bodies of the selectively insured.
Good idea...
Interstate competition seems to work fine for auto insurance.
Why not a similar system for health insurance as well?
Don't bother the bitter clingers with logic today. This one in particular seems to be in a foul mood.
Because riding your bike to work is not comparable to not getting a fucking liver transplant.
C'mon Snowball,
It's all probability distribution, fractional reserve, Ponzi mathematics. Just tell the insurance companies and .gov to get out of the way and let Mr. Market have a turn. Of course my liver would cost you about a buck-fifty.
UF
My homeowners, rental unit policies and auto keep going down.. Your right, bad idea.. Damn competition always choosing to kill people instead of make ongoing profits off live human beings..
You're expecting logical and orderly transitions to insurance regulation just like there is (questionably) in other insurance fields. Hide and watch what shenanigans happen with health insurance. There is no correlation in the industries.
Here are seven things that a good attempt at Health Insurance reform should do:
1. Equalize the tax laws so that employer-provided health insurance and individually owned health insurance have the same tax benefits. Now employer health insurance benefits are fully tax-deductible (for the Employer, that is!), but individual health insurance is not (So sorry, middle-class, wage-slave!).
2. Repeal all state laws which prevent insurance companies from competing
across state lines. We should all have the legal right to purchase health insurance from any insurance company in any state and we should be able to use that insurance wherever we live. With no real competition in CA, is it any wonder that Blue Cross can raise their rates around 39%?
3. Repeal government mandates regarding what insurance companies must cover. These mandates have increased the cost of health insurance by billions of dollars. What is insured and what is not insured should be determined by individual customer preferences and not through special-interest lobbying. Why should a single man have to pay extra for OB-Gyn coverage, for example?
4. Enact tort reform to end the ruinous lawsuits that force doctors to pay
insurance costs of hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. Perhaps then
Doctors can go back to ordering medical tests when they're necessary and not just to cover their @ss, when dealing with some lawsuit-happy patient!
5. Make costs transparent so that consumers understand what health care treatments cost. Ever see a price list in a Doctor's office? Neither have I, yet we're expected to pay $?? whenever we get an appointment!
6. We need to face up to the actuarial fact that Medicare is heading towards
bankruptcy and enact reforms that create greater patient empowerment, choice and RESONSIBILITY. Too many people (especially their children!) order Doctors to "Spare No Expense" when it comes to saving granny's life, even though she's been bed-ridden and on a ventilator for the last year. With no Quality of life, just what are these people trying to save?
7. Revise tax forms to make it easier for individuals to make a voluntary, tax
deductible donation to help millions of people who have no insurance. In Minnesota, we can volunteer to spend some extra tax for a Wildlife fund, why not a "People's Health Fund?"
In short methods do exist to fix the health care sector, but they don't involve Govt meddling, which is why Socialist/Progressives poo-poo such notions!
I'm DocJ, candidate for absolutely nothing, and I completely approve of this message.
What you advocate is a good start, there are other issues.
You touch on a key point, when Medicare was enacted, the start date for benefits coincided with the average life expectancy. That has now increased ~15 years, something has to give.
Be careful how you use labels like socialist etc..., you endear no one.
If the shoe fits, Dude.
Yes, they do fit. Now run along and listen to Rush or whoever to get your next label to use as a slur and your next talking point.
I never said anything about Rush. Funny though how the terms Socialism, and Socialized Medicine have disappeared from the lexicon, and any attempt to call it such is is labeled rhetoric, slurs etc... If the shoe fits. At least man up enough to call it what it is.
If you have a term that you prefer for redistribution of wealth, please let us know. If it isn't too PC, or gayer than eight guys blowing nine guys I'll give it a try.
Obviously a homophobe...you really should seek some professional help. It is never too late.
What is your fucking problem anyway, the guy posted a good list of what is can be addressed in health care, threw in a gratuitous slur. I concurred with his points, reminding him that such slurs are not constructive and then you pipe in with your inane fucking intellect. You probably have never lived farther than 50 miles from the county you were born in. Crawl back into your cave
No, not a homophobe at all, just FUCKING HATE over sensitive whiny shitfucks like you. It was absolutely a good list of places to start. You did give credit where it was due, but took umbrage over the Socialist term. If the shoe fits. Socialist is a slur to you? Jesus Christ for chickenshit. Get over it, puss. He doesn't need to "be reminded" of shit by you. He nailed it. The world needs MORE calling it like it is, not tiptoeing around the truth because we might offend the fucking Flakmeister.
Go away neanderthal, you are in way over your head. The only thing that I am offended by is insenstive assholes like you that have never reflected on anything deeper than a comic book.
No problem, Wuss. Try to remember that I started out with an offhanded comment agreeing with the original posters comment about the definition of socialism. YOU were the one who took offense and called it a slur. I found that to be whiny and it irritated me. If you truly find me offensive, you need to beef up your vitamin regimen cause I'm on your side. (Insofar as I don't want what's yours, or to harm your family)
The rest of what's out there in the big bad world, coming soon to a neighborhood near you will make you wish I was still around making "shoe fits" comments.
Make you a deal: If you do not reply to this comment I will NEVER respond to another post you make. We both know where each other stands; there is really nothing else to say. Good luck to you and your family. Interesting times.
good round guys.....
uuuh, isn't equating "fixing" the medical fraud system like trying to fix the economic fraud system.....like it really cant/aint gonna happen...? just sayin...
eight guys blowing nine guys....HAR! yea, thats perty gay now that i think of it...
Careful having a sense of humor; the sensitivity cops around here will cry foul and brand you as:
-homophobic (as in this case)
-racist
-biggoted
-uneducated
-redneck
The funny thing is I've used that line before. It always gets junked. Know where it came from? Patton Oswald, a liberal, closest to ZH as they come, stand up comedian. For him to be any less homophobic, he would actually have to suck a dick. For all I know maybe he is gay. Couldn't care less.
People are so easily offended it's disgusting. We're so politically fucking correct today that we're supposed to be offended by shit that has nothing to do with us. So unless the dude I was arguing with is a closet gloryholer (he speaks of kids and family so I assume his isn't gay) what beef does he have? But, OOOoh NO! He's a standard bearer for the poor and downtrodden. And I'm a neanderthal because I told a gay joke, and actually have the nerve to call socialists....socialists.
I really was born 150 years too late.
+1000
Your comment on tort reform is interesting. From a Canadian in the Health care industry it is interesting that people in Canada rarely sue their Doctor. I mean I have seen Grandma die......and no law suit. I mean you try your best right? It's not like you purposely want to kill Grandma. Is it because you can't sue in Canada? No. I think with a National health care system it's kinda like you are suing yourself. Your friends would certainly look down on you for suing. It is a totally different attitude towards the system. Also the Canadian Courts simply do not award much for pain and suffering, after all it's a tough world out there and money does not fix everything.
Yes doctors in Canada order what ever they think is necessary nothing more nothing less and pretty much no thought of being sued...that would just be un-Canadian.
Tort reform in the US will require a massive shift in public attitude.....it won't be easy.
This is a great list...but I like Hans-Hermann Hoppe's list slightly better:
http://mises.org/daily/3643
Funny how premiums have skyrocketed after this unconstitutional crapfest passed.
You noticed!
Mines up 20%...thanks Barry...siiiggghhh.
mine too. never good for the solo practitioner. everything is up, bar dues, kids college, food, gas, beer, all the essentials not necessarily in priority's order.
Yeah man.
I seen it in November (the healthcare "dues")when enrollment came around...everyone was (well not everyone) like wait just a damn minute. It was explained that because of "uncertainty" they had to raise rates...well color me shocked...LOL...uncertainty!
And wages stay stagnant...gas, food up...dollar down...what's not to love Davey...we live in their world...all we can do is protect ourselves the best we can from them...for now.
A society can be judged on the way they threat the weak and sick.
And with that classification they use for citizens:
1. Healthy people 2. Sick people
Please step in the left line and pay a vast premium fee MOVE AWAY AND ALONG!!! WE DON'T WANT YOU!
in case you might get sick. THEY ARE THE REASON WHY AMERICA IS GOING
DOWN! EVIL THEY ARE!!!!
AFTER SPENDING 4 TRILLION FOR THE RICH:
THE ONLY THING YOU GET OUT OF THIS IS HIGHER TAXES!!
I bet there is a T-shirt slogan in that somewhere...
amrka intentionally adds poison to the water supply, the corporate food, and the very air we breathe. . .
and then tries to force mandatory "health" insurance premiums on every working individual.
truly a clusterf**k of epic proportion.
Why do you think these are in conflict? The government arrogates to itself the power to execute one-size-fits-all solutions, and being a committee, always screws it up. Whether it's tooth decay or health insurance - the solutions to both were designed by government committee and should be be expected to be toxic.
"A society can be judged on the way they threat the weak and sick."
What a Freudian slip.
I've heard various bleeding heart renditions of this old lie. This sentiment is a pile of bullcrap. A society should be judged by whether it's system provides the maximum amount of opportunity for the maximum number of people.
Socialism sucks, people.
Isn't that a definition of socialism?
No, because only socialists equate opportunity with outcome.
No, it's actually the definition of DEMOCRACY!
The weak are also woman, children and the common working man.
By going against it, you approve fascisme
all this talk of democracy...I been trying to figure it out, anybody got a working model i could review to understand the meaning?
USA: 1789 - 1913
Why would anyone want to judge a society? A society does not eat nor does it sleep nor does it work. A society does not think nor does it feel nor does it remember nor does it cherish nor does it forgive.
Sovereignty lies exclusively with the individual because individuals are real living beings with unique hearts, minds and souls. Society is just a bunch of people who happened to go to the same movie or ball game. Who cares?
Statisticians.
Statistical measurement is far afield from moral judgement.
Agree, statistics and morality are like oil and water! But you asked and I answered, statisticians would care...no? BTW, "answered" and "statistician" have got to be two of the most weird words to spell.
UF
That is true but...
Where does the individual learn how to function in society? From other individuals in society (who learned from other individuals in society ad infinitum). All that you know and believe is formed by the social environment in which you inhabit. Individuals do not exist within a vacuum and while individuals are the actors of society, how they act and what they act upon is taken from society.
Therefore, one can assess the values of the individuals in society by looking at the collectively presented values within said society.
The individual and the collective (in human society) are interdependent and cannot be separated despite belief to the contrary.
Therefore, one can assess the values of the individuals in society by looking at the collectively presented values within said society.
We disagree greatly on the nature of the individual. That difference and all of our other differences are not subsumed by the fact that we arbitrarily exist within similar geographic and temporal boundaries.
Isn't it easier and far more sensible to assess the nature of people like you, me, Obama, Bush, Clinton, Tim McVeigh, Ted Bundy, Sully Sullenberger and the Runaway Bride by our actions as individuals rather than try to explain how each of us fits into some convoluted projection of the will of society?
How could people get up in the morning, fix a meal, go to work and generally go on with the business of living if they really had to be incorporated into such a monster as a willful and sentient society? Thank God that monster exists only in some people's heads. Too many people, really.
Never let facts get in the way of ideology....Upward mobility, the essence of what opportunity is, is now higher in Germany than the U.S. Same goes for France too, and Canada, and Denmark, and Sweden and Norway...
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/2/7/45002641.pdf
and
http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/ezraklein_archive?month=05&year=2009&base_name=is_europe_really_have_less_upw
which is a summary of
http://www.economicmobility.org/assets/pdfs/EMP%20American%20Dream%20Report.pdf%20
SD,
"A society can be judged on the way they threat the weak and sick."
Spoken like a pompous ass Dutchman...how did your "society" treat the "weak and sick" Africans you imported over here?
Fuckin retard.
Not to mention the Congo...
Aside from that there is no society of people that does not have acts of atrocity in their past. That does not take away from his point. Also, a society can be judged by all sorts of criteria, though I am aware that he was providing a negative connotation.
The point is, there is benefit to all individuals in society to provide some level of care to the weak and sick. This is true or it would not be in human society. This trait is much older than modern liberal (read socialistic) society. I am not saying that people do not abuse the system or that the system, as it exists currently does not promote sloth and entitlement.
However, to reject the concept entirely and call someone a "Fuckin retard" because they hold a position you don't agree with hardly aligns with your purported values of individual rights, which would certainly include the right of the individual to speak their minds freely and engage, freely, in public debate. Ad hominem attacks rarely support such a view and are more often used to promote group think and enforcement of collective norms... a collectivist philosophical stance.
Amusing when one uses collectivist philosophy (brutish and crude at best, but certaily from that standpoint) as your assumption base to promote an individualistic point of view. Ironic at best, hypocritical and ignorant at worst.
I'll be absolutely blunt with you...as is my nature.
I grow tired as hell of highbrow Europeons interjecting their half assed socialist opinions toward my countrymen without recounting their own past transgressions to the uninformed.
You obviously have not been paying any attention to SD's posts in the past. When the Europeans decide to afford for their own defense instead of saving money by using the crutch of ours we'll see how magnanimous he is with his social safety net.
I'm about us buddyro...don't ever forget that about me...just like they are about them.
Nuff said.
you....
YOU CAN READ??!!!
You surprice me every day :)
Now read this : FUCK OFF.
Now let the word sink righ throug....
let them sink....
yes....
NOW DO IT!!!!!
You know I warned you off on another thread about commenting on American society with all the skeletons in your closet. I was content to not bring it up to a larger audience as long as you stayed away from social issues here.
Americans don't comment on the last hooker strangled by a junkie in Amsterdam or the mind numbingly stupid Euro pact coming from Brussels...it's bad form ;-)
We've already socialized the banks, schools, business, the stock market.
We've even gone as far as to set up an entire Great Society at the behest of socialists here. It's done a fantastic job of bloating the new overseers and sapping the will of generations of individuals.
The solution is simple. You refrain from pointing out the splinter in my eye blurring my vision and I'll refrain from pointing out the 2X4 in yours.
Look, I think your a sick and weak individual and I would like to see that people like you get the help they need.
Is that so wrong?
We are all Americans and we all care about this country, how about you stop being selfish and ask yourself what this law does to the vast majority of Americans. By siphoning trillions out of the private sector to pay for this the country itself becomes poorer and the cost burden falls on the rest of us. We will inevitably see premiums shoot up and quality go down. Yes you are right, some few get to benefit from this law, but many more suffer. Does that not matter?
But Obama promised to heal us all!!!!
Wrong. He just promised to pay the unlimited bill for it.
Actually, he didn't promise to pay anything.
He commited "someone else" to pay the freight.
I stand corrected. Thank you for the fine tuning.
No worries, RR.
What do you do with a crippled horse?
YOU PUT IT DOWN!!!
BULLET THROUGH THE HEAD!!
and just like in China, the bullet can be charged to the family.
Woohoo!!!
PRAISE GOD!!
No praise the Constitution and the only Judge in America who understands how to apply it
Give that Judge Vinson a bottle of bubbly
PRAISE ALLAH INFIDELS!
and him too, why not, hell "bubbly all round" it's been a good day
Indeed buzzsaw and Zero, a great day for freedom!
buzzsaw gets junked for allah and infidels and ZG gets by for praising the CON and a judge who "gets it"? HAR! i doubt judge vinson's stand had anything to do with the holy CONstitution
Ha! And Obama wasted all his political capital on it.
Let hope the SC rules the same way.
Just another dog and pony show. Just tell me my penality. What is it $695?
In the 3rd year. Year one is $95.
as for businesses, most have figured it is cheaper to take the business penalty as well.
Nice.
Or just get exempted from the whole farce.
ONLY if you are SEIU or otherwise Obama's stooges...
I already know this is nothing but a show. I will pay my $695 like a man.