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Follow The Egyptian Revolution Live Via Al Jazeera
Forget the irrelevant inventory accumulation... pardon... GDP number. The real news today is coming from Egypt, where history is currently being made and a regime is in the process of being overthrown despite the unprecedented country-wide internet shutdown. The fallout from today's riots will be momentous. Follow all the news in real time from Al Jazeera.
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It might be safe to declare that North Africa has been tipped over into th efirst stages of Chaos.
Nothing good will come out of this except for the installation of toady's like ElBaradei into positions of power, supposedly on the back of popular revolt.
The game, it seems, is going well according to plan. And Egyptians are playing right into their hands.
Please note the giant twitter symbol in the screen capture, pounding in the massage that twitter=freedom. Masterful. Bernays would be proud.
ORI
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/01/27/wisdom-for-warriors-6/
And I thought I was cynical. What are some of the other pieces of the plan that I should be looking for? I am open minded, for sure... just not well versed.
Watch for the GOM story to come right back in the news as a temporal marker that things are going to get really crappy.
Along with it, watch for the Vatican/Clerical sex abuse story to resurface with a vengeance. Remember too that it was the Gulf of Mexico disaster on April 20th, that pushed a fast peaking/breaking Church Abuse story into the complete background ever since.
When it rains in Spain (figuratively of course), another big temporal marker that the tipping point is behind us. The revolution WILL go to Spain.
If you weren't being sarcastic, I can give you more.
ORI
Not sarcastic, at all. About me: something like a libertarian anarchist. Makes me want to believe in things like wikileaks and the sort of "revolution" we are watching in Egypt... BUT hopelessly cynical and prone to believing we can never have anything nice.
Hi Kridkid,
This is a great article for you about this and wiki/Egypt/TPTB...
http://www.thedailybell.com/1717/Fall-of-Saudi-Arabia-to-End-Dollar-Rese...
fredquimby, thank you for the link. I was unaware of the Daily Bell. Article is something I've been thinking through and alerting friends. IMO Ben and Timmay are engaged in a global game of chicken, but it's going to end up being dollar suicide. The historical and cultural significance of Egypt the Middle East and Arab world should not be underestimated. In my view, the dominoes fall to Saudi Arabia (and elsewhere of course). The royal family then has a decision - do they fear their social revolution more than either the U.S. military or Iran. If social revolution and loss of power is more feared, then the delink and stop pricing oil in dollars (hello Weimar USA), although at risk of U.S. invasion? If they fear Iran more, then try to resist the revolution, fail, and still U.S. invasion to try to secure oil fields and we know how well that turned out in Iraq. As I type this, I think under either scenario pricing of oil in dollars is soon to be history. Thank you Ben and Timmy.
Good luck invading Saudi Arabia when no one will take your silly dollars to buy their oil anymore.
But even if we did successfully manage to take over (which, let's be realistic, won't be too difficult considering the resources and personnel already there, not to mention the remote sabotage triggers probably built in to every F16 we ever sold to them) it would be a fleeting occupation. Most of the troops that would be used to secure SA would quickly find themselves in an entirely untenable situation and will skulk away in the night using any means available to hightail it back home to the US.
The US Empire is done. This is just the semi-formal announcement.
I am Chumbawamba.
Agreed. One can only sit back in awe at the sight of the gross strategic miscalculation unfolding right before our eyes. Too bad the snap-back is going to be very hardscrabble for the 99% of us Americans, regardless of how prepared we may believe we are positioned as individuals or families.
It's better to be 10 minutes too early than 10 seconds too late...
In an ironic twist, 12/2012 might actually be better than what the next few months bring starting now.
The mayans have it right. They understood cyclical patterns.
BREAKING NEWS: Saudi demonstration planned for Saturday (today) to protest the corruption and lack of infrastructure in Jeddah after massive floods devastate the city this week!
http://fedupmontrealer.blogspot.com/2011/01/saudi-hiccup.html
The protest is being organized via Blackberry Messenger...
Tower is down now btw that you chit chatted about it...dumb fuck.
Anon is working to make a mesh network available, not that you know what the fuck that is. Not sure if we should defend anyone here. Seriously. When it's sayd anon, USE FUCKING ANON. Since you used specifics, nice, anyone that helped keep it open it dead or run away fuck nut.
This isn't a video game, please understand other humans are trying their damnest to keep it open.
..fuck sakes...swear to christ you all deserve what you get...oh Ahmed is dead btw because of your big mouth if you didn't think a million people read this. Don't make me drive two hours.
Once TD has made your blog a front page item, you can feel free to stop spamming it all over the damn site.
Everything is connected to everything else in this 'interdependent' world of ours, so might as well mention it here. Check out "The World's Addiction to Credit" on the Capital Research Institute's blog: www.capitalresearchinstitute.org
"More credit means more money and more money means higher inflation unless offset with economic growth, which is hard to attain in consideration of the amount of additional money the Federal Reserve Bank, European Central Bank and International Monetary Fund have added to the system for the bailouts. Due to the weaknesses and low interest rates in the developed world, additional capital is flowing into emerging markets which therefore drives up prices and causes inflation unless they raise their interest rates, which slows down economic growth and causes their currencies to appreciate, the opposite of what they want. Countries around the world are in a race to the bottom of their currencies, they try to devalue in order to gain a competitive edge over its neighbours to compete for exports."
<insert snarky comment>
To sum up: "Mo money. Mo problems." - Diddy
pride goeth before the fall - Herodotus
Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall.
Proverbs 16:18
Herodotus: 484BC - 425BC
Great Assembly: ~450 BC
It's a tie!
mubarak on charlie rose saying how much his country benefited under his administration, that it is a democracy and how women are respected w/ rose lapping it up of course (minute 2).
famous last words:
"reform has to be home grown, it is what the people demand" - mubarak (minute 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvYe2-PabZY&playnext=1&list=PL23D98698A05...
We do not govern Egypt, we govern the governors of Egypt.
—Lord Cromer (1841-1917)
Carrol quigley + the anglo-american establishment
http://www.carrollquigley.net/pdf/The_Anglo-American_Establishment.pdf
Thanks for indicating the Carroll Quigley repository.
I have been looking for a while for an online copy of Tragedy and Hope, and now I have it. Cheers.
Most of the troops that would be used to secure SA would quickly find themselves in an entirely untenable situation
Right. US troops in control of Mecca? Global jihad -- every muslim with a pulse would jump in.
Maybe even a couple without a pulse, Osama comes to mind.
And "untenable"? Understatement, of the dangerous variety.
Really? Isnt this article about Egpyt. SA will not fall. There wont even be protests. Look at the population numbers. I, for one, am taking a wait and see approach for I announce the end of empire and the beiniing of the fall of Arab dictators. I think it would be very bad for us if Mubarek fell and very bad for the Egyptians unless you like Islamic rule.
Thanks for the junks but i know what im talking about. SA will not fall. What happens in Egypt laregly depends on the military's reaction. Do they suopport Mubarek or do they stage a coup to restore "order". The wildcard in the Muslim Brotherhood. They are small, maybe 10 to 20 percent of the poulation, from what i have read in year's past, but might are very savvy politcially. It's really anyone's educated guess. And I mean educated, as in having read books like "The Life and Times of Muhammed" and "Milestones." Milestones is a must read for anyone wanting to know how al-Qaeada thinks. It would be a mistake to view this thru Western glasses. IMO, there's a 50/50 between Mubarek being exiled and the army taking power but it is one or the other. I could be wrong but this is not bringing down the global economy...sorry perma-gloomers. News like this certainly brings out the wacky in all of us. In the end, we won't know what is going to happen til it happens.
Indeed. Take Mubarak's strategy of warning the public that they'll need him to take care of them. Looting is growing--how many of the looters, one has to wonder, are plainclothes cops? Now the prisons are being emptied--and they are not all political prisoners.
Most saavy move, however, seems to be allowing protests to simmer along. One has to wonder how basic provisions will hold up in this large urban center--are food deliveries continuing uninterrupted? I doubt it.
Mubarak is playing his position to feed the downside of anarchy until the people give up, imo.
Jihad means "personal struggle" and only has to do with a spiritual journey.
Everyone meeds to understand that.
Another mal-understood, mal-propagated word for mal-odorous effect. Thanks LH.
ORI
"not to mention the remote sabotage triggers probably built in to every F16 we ever sold to them"
;-)
Are there such things? I certainlly hope so. How do you know, BTW? Not being a smart-a**; just want to gauge your knowledge.
Obviously, you need to bone up on your history. Once upon a time in the late 1970's, the good'ole USA sold Iran (79) F-14 Tomcats.
...rumors suggest that all 77 remaining Tomcats (two had been lost in 1977 during training flights) were somehow sabotaged so that they could no longer fire their Phoenix missiles. Whether or not these rumors have any merit to them is debated, as is the identity of who may have performed this sabotage and how. Various accounts credit the act to either departing Grumman technicians or Iranian Air Force personnel friendly to the US. Perhaps the simplest and most effective means of performing this sabotage would have been to remove or somehow corrupt the software in the aircraft's flight computer that interfaces with and commands the missiles..."
They uploaded StuxNet via an RS232 cable.
The US switches sides of who they support so often there's probably a module for that device - just plug it in. Also, we have electronic countermeasure A-6's that completely black out any enemy radar, it makes their radar screen look like the entire luftwaffe is coming when it's just one or two planes. The USS Enterprise did it 4/88 in the Gulf fighting on the side of Iraq in the Iran Iraq War. We sank nearly every ship in the Iranian Navy (in one sortie) and put a radio controlled bomb down the smokestack of the biggest ship they had. That's old tech'. No telling what's current.
Barrels were outsourced to China because of their high standards and knowledge of metallurgy.
"But even if we did successfully manage to take over (which, let's be realistic, won't be too difficult...."
Not realistic at all.
Empire? Did somebody say EMPIRE? Ooops, Revolution Calling:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJb3Lcvtn4M&feature=related
Lyrics from 1990 will floor you: Hey, where's RobotTrader all week?
"Revolution Calling"
For a price I'd do about anything
Except pull the trigger
For that I'd need a pretty good cause
Then I heard of Dr. X
The man with the cure
Just watch the television
Yeah, you'll see there's something going on
Got no love for politicians
Or that crazy scene in D.C.
It's just a power mad town
But the time is ripe for changes
There's a growing feeling
That taking a chance on a new kind of vision is due
I used to trust the media
To tell me the truth, tell us the truth
But now I've seen the payoffs
Everywhere I look
Who do you trust when everyone's a crook?
Revolution calling
Revolution calling
Revolution calling you
[There's a] Revolution calling
Revolution calling
Gotta make a change
Gotta push, gotta push it on through
I'm tired of all this bullshit
They keep selling me on T.V.
About the communist plan
And all the shady preachers
Begging for my cash
Swiss bank accounts while giving their
Secretaries the slam
They're all in Penthouse now
Or Playboy magazine, million dollar stories to tell
I guess Warhol wasn't wrong
Fame fifteen minutes long
Everyone's using everybody, making the sale
I used to think
That only America's way, way was right
But now the holy dollar rules everybody's lives
Gotta make a million doesn't matter who dies
Revolution calling
Revolution calling
Revolution calling you
[There's a] Revolution calling
Revolution calling
Gotta make a change
Gotta push, gotta push it on through
I used to trust the media
To tell me the truth, tell us the truth
But now I've seen the payoffs
Everywhere I look
Who do you trust when everyone's a crook?
Revolution calling
Revolution calling
Revolution calling you
[There's a] Revolution calling
Revolution calling
Gotta make a change
Gotta push, gotta push it on through
This is a little more to the point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f08yZ4Lc9kY
and..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrYNICo26i4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2R2KXNQR1M&feature=related
Oh yeah, Send "In 'N' Out" Ringtones to Cell
(Words by Van Halen)
Yeah, I been in debt from conception
I pay for the rest of your life
As long as I remember, bills have looked me in the eye
You can have it now but ya gotta pay for it later. Oh!
Work me out, the payment's cleared
Now you're workin' for the man. Yeah
They gotcha goin' in. They gotcha comin' out
Same amount, woo! In 'n out
Ain't no way 'round the system
Money make this world go round
All the way, they got you down
Stay and add it up or throw yourself out a window. Oh!
Might cost you less to stick around
One more payment. Lay it down, on the ground
Well, they gotcha comin' in, they gotcha goin' out
Same amount, woo! In 'n out
Oh!
Uh uh uhuh yeah
Uh uh uhuh yeah
Uh uh uhuh yeah
Woo, come on!
If they fear Iran more, then try to resist the revolution, fail, and still U.S. invasion to try to secure oil fields and we know how well that turned out in Iraq
The US failed to bring in enough troops,and we should not make that mistake ever again.
The scenarios you paint leaves them one choice, Stick w/the US, because come hell or high water, we WILL be there enmasse,regardless.
This time, it is different. But it's the old cry wolf problem.
ORI
libertarian anarchist....cynical and prone to believing we can never have anything nice
ahhh, a kindred spirit!
/hat tip/
lol...
the whole lets shoot into the un-armed crowd thing only works every where else...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_Siege
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=evnsp&xhr=t&q=new+york+cops+shoot+30+times&cp=28&qe=bmV3IHlvcmsgY29wcyBzaG9vdCAzMCB0aW1lcw&qesig=bmUdzx3zcc33Sb1yjUqwwg&pkc=AFgZ2tliBeLyWeFL3Hb8IqEPD9QLEw53EdsVRI1boeksuXB7jMVm5_6hvRNLpRsfxbHutnLgzNGN2dPXW1TXEPou5czSHLtzqA&pf=p&sclient=psy&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=new+york+cops+shoot+30+times&pbx=1&fp=b38a39d75d801afd
I could keep going, but it is time that people started to defend themselves from the Nazi's powers that be in this Country...
Sieg Heil!!!!!!!!
we can never have anything nice.
One of the most tragic and profound statements I have read in a long time.
+1
Life isn't fair. You can have whatever you want, as long as you're willing to fight for it.
I am Chumbawamba.
Agreed Chumba, agreed.
know your enemy
Your chumbawaba not chumbawumber. I knew chumberwumber; and your no chumbawumba. But you are a good imitation. Chumbawumba left some time ago and vanished like a virgin on prom night. He's a ghost. (I love point break; Gary busey's best lines!) Totally off point but isnt weird how know our bank robbery movies always have the good guy as the robber and the FBI as the bad guy? I just saw The Town and in addtion to being Ben Afflecks's best movie ever, i couldnt help notice this theme. Now, back to Egypt.
But are you actually are you chumba and just changed the U to an A. Long time ZHers everywhere want to know.
I'm a FED troll; I will obey (at any cost).
"we can never have anything nice"
*eye roll* amrkns have had the majority of the world's "nice" most of their lives.
game over.
Not so fast... Our "nice" is franken-food, depression-drugs, suicide, Wal-Marts, trampy Kardashians, scuzzy reality entertainment, mega-malls hocking Chinese ephemera, sadness, Potemkin McMansion wastelands, warped values, Ipods, Ipads, Iphones, sexual dysfunction, divorce, crystal meth, the sexualization of our children pushed by "entertainment" cartels like MTV, blathering asshats on MSNBC/Fox/CNBC, narcissist politicians, morbid obesity, diabetes, broken families, broken homes, broken bank accounts, selfishness, lack of community, debt, deficits, fear, paranoia, TSA molestation, DHS, Janet Napolitano, plumbers cracks, fake tits, fake asses, fake wars, fake currency... and shitty vegetables.
But other than that, it's nice.
hhahaahaha. good list.
but most of these issues can be resolved by chucking out your TV, iphone with the plastic surgeons number on it and then getting into the liberal use of viagra.
Perfectly fracking simple!
You forgot Flatscreens & Granite,
To Be Thankful For. (Bitchez).
there's nothing on your list that I haven't been pointing to since I began posting here cleve, all things considered ripe for jokes 'n' puns on these threads, daily. . . until a few years (months?) ago, hardly on most people's radar, as they went about their "consumer duties" collecting their toys.
yes, this nation's mind is captured - but admit it, the overwhelming majority of amrkns boast about the "freedumbs" you list, and truly believe "everybody wants to move here because we're #1!!!11!"
and amrkn "largesse" is based on looting the world.
...video games programming our young to kill their fellow beings.
You must have thought that by "anything nice" I meant material stuff... a very shallow read of what I wrote. Try again.
how 'bout you've had the luxury, all your life, of never having the amrkn military occupy your land, using chemical weapons on you & your family, or drones on your friends' wedding parties, or stealth agencies install puppet govt. that you can't "vote" out (and I'll admit the last point is debate-able). . . you still have the relative freedom to call yourself a "libertarian anarchist" while reaping the benefits of your western colonial history.
this is not to pick on you, but to re-mind us all that one of the reasons amrkns aren't on the streets is relative comfort & privilege when compared with nationstates this country meddles in.
The American military does occupy my land, fwiw... and you have no idea what I reap for living here. Relative comfort and privilege is what keeps EVERYONE ALL OVER THE WORLD from marching on the streets... it's all relative. Food prices go up, so does the marching. It'll come here, and we are ill-prepared to deal with it... when it does come, it will be far worse than anything we are seeing in Egypt, I think.
FWIW, we don't appear to differ much on the basics, and I agree with what you've said here. . .
perhaps the "we can never have anything nice" could have used a definition of "we" and "nice" - which you've expanded on somewhat in subsequent posts. . .
and yes, we also agree that when the noose is further tightened in amrka, it will be ugly.
peace, sincerely.
Peace back, also sincerely.
krid krid, my take was the list as a reply to
Cathartes Aura above it
EYES ROLL,
Maybe your right, but.
NOT one SOB gave it to us, we worked for it.
The only thing I ever got for free in this life was the TIME of Day.
Jealous prick.
So Dos
I take it- you haven't signed up for the new and improved iTime. Just $19.95 a month.
But WAIT, if you sign up now, we will give you 2- THAT'S TWO iTimes for the same price.
DosZap, I'm rather unclear as to what your post "means" - if it's a reply to mine:
- then I'll pass on arguing the point beyond clarifying that I was referring to the hegemony perpetuated by amrka, via world reserve currency & over-emphasis on global military, with a sickening dose of *guiding hand* secret agencies, which has given the consumers of this nationstate a Hollywood styled-life for decades. . . that was all I was referring to.
it has all been at the expense of other nationstates, which is the way of colonialism, as proven over centuries - as is the eventual power shifts towards "new pastures" to conquer.
Kridkrid: Do you mean "cynical," or "skeptical?" I hate to split hairs but I don't know you. I think I understand what you mean, and am of a kindred spirit, though.
I meant cynical, but both apply. My belief that people are generally up to no good (cynicism) makes me skeptical of something like wikileaks.
With Egypt... I'm not skeptical of what I'm seeing... I'm skeptical about what might be behind what I'm seeing. What's the nudge and what's the angle. It makes me prone to conspiracy theory, but I like to think I can read through silly memes.
I meant cynical, but both apply. My belief that people are generally up to no good (cynicism) makes me skeptical of something like wikileaks.
With Egypt... I'm not skeptical of what I'm seeing... I'm skeptical about what might be behind what I'm seeing. What's the nudge and what's the angle. It makes me prone to conspiracy theory, but I like to think I can read through silly memes.
Listen to what the leader(s) (El Baradei) has to say, then observe what he does and who supports him as to what the intention is. The facts reveal themselves to those willing to wade through the BS.
Right Commander,
NO Outsider is going to walk into that slot, without a pre-arrainged deal.
Kind of like the American Presidency. I agree with you both.
Let's see, the Baradei was the UN IAEA enforcer who overlooked Libya's nuclear program? But W's big stick scared the poop out of the Gaddafi and he gave up voluntarily. But "I see nuthink, nuthink." in Iraq.
got the Nobel Peace prize in '05 for (what?). (Arafat got the 'Peace' prize as well as, well ...)
Muslim Brotherhood supports him.
ya, I got it.
- Ned
Sounds like web bot claptrap. Wrong 100% of the time. Nice story line though - if you're into science fiction.
I wouldn't say 100%, but I guess that is determined by what you expect from it.
You have to admit, it is an interesting concept, if you can agree with the premise.
"libertarian anarchist"... the most hopful phrase I've read in a long while.
I'm a communist pacifist. My hero is Dick Cheney.
I am not a pedophile, but I do admire the Pope.
I'm not a freaky slut but I'll have sex with them.
But Dick now got a Muslim (quick afghafuck pick) heart (monkey high tech surgery).
Is Dick now half a nigga, or what?
If they attempt to transplant any body part into Cheney which came from a human with a SOUL, Dick's body would reject it immediately.
first he'd snap off two James Brown licks then collapse (oh, you said "a" soul)
I've heard Cheney's waiting for a heart implant
[as opposed to a "transplant"]
You are forgetting about all the souls he has eaten.. Those were the people he liked..
That's why he got a mechanical implant. See photo:
http://www.artofmarkbryan.com/Dick.html
Cheney was a congressional aide to Gerry Ford durring the Warren Commission. What an education that must have been. How about that magic bullet?
My eyes must play tricks on me; I saw a pig connected to the implant.
I remember the same kind of pig (age/overall look) was harassing me in Montreal.
Sometimes, pigs do so big mistakes, they never recover.
Somebody has been reading the Webbots.
You should probably add the caveat that their predictions have been massively wrong most of the time.
Speaker, Temporal Marker is not copyright or exclusive to Webbots. It just elegantly denotes an event that (temporally, of tempo, where from came time) specifies a time without a specific date.
And I've been seeing this coming a while. My views are at large here and on my blog since April of last year.
Anyone who understood 9/11 could say the same. The storyline was clear. The end of the age of Oil will obviously be accompanied by the institutions that benefited from it.
It does not take a tin-foil hat. Just a larger awareness.
And yes, i do subscribe to the SHAPE reports.
ORI
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com
I read them too. Think the methodology is interesting, if still completely unproven.
I just think if you are going to parrot some of their predictions, you should provide some attribution.
Speaker, don't generalize your own lack of critical thinking. My own views have been on the net for the past nine months ( http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/ ) and again, anyone with eyes that see and ears that hear can join the dots, ne?
Try my small dot joining exercise:
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/01/05/stairwell-sigtar/
Not being offensive or anything, just surprised.
ORI
ORI,
Noted. I am a fan of your posts, so I did not mean insult. I just noted the coincidental timing between your post today and the release of the most recent Bots report.
I'm sure I was influenced to say temporal marker instead of events from just having read it too.
Thanks for the appreciation.
ORI
Good God. Can the larger ZH audience be spared these silly side displays of mutual crotch sniffing? No wonder the comments are so bloated these days.
I am Chumbawamba.
lol
Point well made and taken.
ORI
I'm ok with occasional crotch sniffing.. provided the other party is a female human.
Hey, that's exactly what Hillary said, too.
Rodent - FYI- I see a comment of yours I can appreciate.
Hey, I put out all kinds of comedy gold. Genius is so seldom appreciated. Thanks for the nod.
I'm O.K., as long as it's me doing the sniffing on myself. I didn't take 2 years of yoga for nothing.
Are you guys going to suck each others dicks now or what.
there be no shelter here
only in yer amrkn dream.
Peak Oil is a scam, just just like Greenlands Ice Cap is melting........Bullshit.
No one, and I mean no one has a clue what kind of reserves are still available, true they will be more difficult to get ot, but they are there.
Four new HUGE fields were found this week, four.(Caspian Sea Fields.)
Yeah but it's high sulfur heavy crude, not much good for anything.
on Fri, 01/28/2011 - 11:03
#913087
Peak Oil is a scam, just just like Greenlands Ice Cap is melting........Bullshit.
No one, and I mean no one has a clue what kind of reserves are still available, true they will be more difficult to get ot, but they are there.
Four new HUGE fields were found this week, four.(Caspian Sea Fields.)
**************************************************************************
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYuLjGQQ-jg
it is not peak oil... it is peak affordable oil.. peak sweet lite crude...
it is peak production.. we havent built up our infrastructure... monopolies! plural... didnt want it..
it is about price Doc and availability of refining facilities...
I would not waste your time Bro... well I would with hawt bitchez.. but not with this.
No I agree its definitely going to be more expensive, to extract.
I cannot believe the Canuck pipelne coming thru the US with Big Gvt approval,pipe is onyl 1/2 " thick, and the oil is basically toxic as hell.
But we got the Texans riled up, so look for some shit.
If this was US Crude, it would never be allowed to be pipelined in.(Canuck Sand Oil).
.500 wall pipe is actually pretty thick for crude. Much new construction is .375. If the .500 wall concerns you, you don't want to know what some of the 50 year old lines are made out of.
1/2" is thick for transporting fluid.. More importantly is the material of the pipe and more important than that is the curves.. That is where 99% ofthe wear takes place. Just an FYI.. I've designed pipe transports in the past.
I actually doubt that the line he referred to is entirely .500 wall, usually that is a heavier wall thickness used for road bores. Some higher pressure gas lines run .500-.600, but every crude line I've worked on has been .350 to .375 for line pipe. (New construction anyway, a lot of old lines are thinner)
Most failures are related to either, A.) external corrosion, a problem that has gotten better with the advent of better coatings, or B.) failure due to cracking, either lack of fusion in the long seam weld, or occasional cracking in the girth weld.
As we continue to pump shittier and shittier crude, with more and more chemicals in it, we're gonna have more internal corrosion issues.
As you said, fittings are high wear areas; that's why we use so few of them. Small bends are made over longer distances to keep everything as gradual as possible. Fittings are avoided whenever possible in mainlines.
Been pipelining quite a while.
I agree.. The applications I'm familiar with are are different than crude oil from the ground.. I'm sure corrosion is the killer.. In my applications it is the least of my worries.. I know nothing about the pressure requirements or if the crude contains abrasives (rock, dirt, sand) as it comes from underground.. 1/2" seems a little over-kill for oil but then again, it would certainly be more rigid to battle shifting, of course I would have to know the diameter section length as well..
-- in the curves, they use the heavy gage stuff around here.
Get the Cameron's hydraulic black book. It's all in there...
QF-Chem E
Peak oil means peak affordable oil, nothing else. A concept is never a scam until you engage in coitus with it.
Peak oil is excuse B for "transferring to the green economy" if excuse A (global warming) fails. It also serves to keep oil prices far higher then they should be, the OPEC scam is dependent on the idea that oil is a finite resource.
In reality there's planty of oil left, as much coal as we could ever want and alternatives like thorium power which is basically a form of nuclear power that is superior to uranium power in every way. The people spreading these "theories" don't care about cheap, clean energy for the masses, they have darker agendas.
What we should be doing is designing a generation of LFTR (Liquid Flouride Thorium Reactors) to replace all power stations. At the same time putting lots of money into researching the efficacy of running electric vehicles on hydrogen fuel cells, if it's practical then start building the infrastructure for it.
Selling these reactors to poor nations for cheap would allow them to develop, in turn reducing global population growth. What the world needs is cheap energy, that is the last thing the global elite want.
Tesla had an idea for cheap energy too. You are correct that cheap energy is the last thing that entrenched power wants for the "small people".
pods
With regard to hydrogen fuel cells. What do you get the hydrogen from? No it isn't water. That's not cost effective. Answer: It is stripped out of natural gas.
Fuel Cells are as big a farce as commonly understood peak oil.
Too expensive, too frail, too much "control system" requirement and loads of "rare earths" required for the reformer, if it is to be on-board.
Worked extensively with them in the mid-late nineties.
No go. Hydrogen as a fuel is not viable.
Much better alternatives exist.
ORI
Might as well do some research anyway, but you are most likely right, hydrogen isn't the answer.
I'm sure more efficient methods of electrolysis are possible but like ORI says there's other problems too.
With regard to hydrogen fuel cells. What do you get the hydrogen from? No it isn't water. That's not cost effective. Answer: It is stripped out of natural gas.
There has been the same amount of production for the last six years. Why hasn't production increased?
1. Environmental restrictions. 2. Political risk. 3. Technological difficulties.
Oil isn't bubbling out of the ground anymore like in the Beverly Hillbillies.
1) If you refer to Bakken and Alaska, the oil will not mitigate a world wide peak. As for the rest of the world, there is no environmental concern. Th Amazon is a mess thanks to oil corporations.
2) Political risk? For whome? Oil makes the politicians a lot of money.
3) Well get a bigger straw for crying out loud!
3)
Dude, have you ever been in an area where a pipeline route is proposed? Believe me, politicians at all levels have to be very careful in their public support of pipelines.
Bakken, Alaska, and Canada will not mitigate a worldwide peak, but can lessen our foreign dependence if allowed to get after it. Bakken keeps surprising everybody. (@ Dave.. There are places in North Dakota, Montana where the oil damn near is running out of the ground,,,, at least you'd think so when a line is down, listening to the shippers scream for throughput. :)
At this point, one of the bigger obstacles to our oil production is not the amount of oil in the ground, but the infrastructure to transport and refine. Figures about our domestic capability are somewhat skewed in favor of a peak oil theory, because oil companies can't build pipelines to get the oil to refineries....that can't handle more product......and aren't allowed to expand.......we haven't built a new refinery in this country in decades.
Don't get me wrong, peak oil is real. It just isn't some kind of an overnight thing where you go, "Well, we peaked. Better go ride a bicycle." We just bring a lot of our problems on ourself.
Dave's analysis is spot on.
I'm so fucking tired of listening to this bollocks about Bakken. Bakken is insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/3868
Maybe if you read what I said before going so pissy, you wouldn't be so "fucking tired". First of all I (a pipeliner) was resonding to several points made by another poster (oil well driller) explaining why he thinks domestic production hasn't increased. So to quote Dave (driller):
"1. Environmental restrictions. 2. Political risk. 3. Technological difficulties."
To quote the relevant (pissed you off) parts my (pipeliner) response:
"Bakken, Alaska, and Canada will not mitigate a worldwide peak, but can lessen our foreign dependence if allowed to get after it. Bakken keeps surprising everybody."
I not only claimed that Bakken wouldn't fix the problem, but gave you Alaska AND Canada too. And I will stand by my claim based on years of working on pipeline systems in the Bakken formation, that it does keep surprising. Similar to news reports saying that the economy is improving, asking the "man on the street" might get you a different answer. I am not a geologist, but from my "man on the street" perspective I will tell you that things there are still growing by leaps and bounds. Speaking from experience, these companies would not be planning expansion projects if the amount of recoverable oil was waning. Why would they? It would be like going out and buying a pickup truck for the sole purpose of hauling groceries that already fit in your car.
To continue:
"At this point, one of the bigger obstacles to our oil production is not the amount of oil in the ground, but the infrastructure to transport and refine."
I stand by this claim too. I am not claiming that the US has sustainable reserves. Nor am I making claims as to how long that supply will last if we went at it full bore. JimiJon asked why our production never goes up if we have so much oil. I am simply maintaining that because the industry is castrated, it only produces what it is allowed. I'm not entering the debate of whether oil companies are rightly or wrongly held back from production, but it is the truth.
And to conclude:
"Don't get me wrong, peak oil is real."
So what part of this pissed you off?
Discoveries have lagged production for decades. Doesn't matter what the bullshit reserve numbers are - production rates are all that matters - and they can't keep up with demand.
Yeah that is where the depopulation agenda comes into play
The same thought popped into my head regarding the ideal "500,000" or some such proposal.
I do not doubt that there is technology that is available today to solve many many issues related to energy usage. I think that perhaps the overlords continue to jockey for a better piece of the world pie prior to implementing the "better" plan of depopulation and feudal structure to ensure their and their progeny's 1,000 year reign.
Wrong. Refinery capacity cannot keep up with demand. Regulation that stifles production and infrastructure lead to not keeping up with demand. And "Demand" fluctuates. Right now as we speak, lines are throttled back and idling. Maintenance is being moved ahead because of lack of demand.
Now I'm not trying to shill for the oil industry. I agree that reserves will not keep up indefinitely. But people who say we cannot keep up now are missing the forest for the trees. The demand capacity equation has more to do with infrastructure than reserves.
Peak oil will be moot by the time it gets here. Already, we now have bacteria that produce fuel from CO2 and sunlight in brackish or salt water. No need for refining.
Look at all the pretty unicorns!
TPOG
Amen dude. I've been drilling wells for 40 years. We're there.
Yes, look at all the pretty ponies: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIY41LrvMFQ
Peak oil is moot because we now have bacteria that produce fuel from CO2 and sunlight. By the time production actually starts declining, those rising prices will cause investment to flow into that technology, and production by that method will explode. Since the fuel produced in this manner does not require refinement, you realize huge efficiencies.
But you don't want to think about that because you just want death. Sorry, death worshipper, but we aren't all going to die next Thursday. Sorry :(
There is so little of the bacterium produced it would not mitigate declining supply.
Uh, you might want to look up what a "bacterium" is. Given the correct conditions, they will "reproduce" and "increase their population" in an "exponential manner".
Not rocket science.
Sounds like they are made of dollars.
Nice narrative. But it is not what happened at least for the last two paradigm changes.
Coal outcompeted the previous energy sources. Just like oil outcompeted coal.
The very fact these energy sources exist concomitantly to oil is the sign they fail at outcompeting oil.
Of course, oil decline is not the end of the world. But the path up as it is provided by stuff like coal and oil will no longer be the path taken.
All you said is that once the oil is no longer available, other things will keep being available.
No news here.
Riiiight... And when this bacteria thing scales to 85 million bpd with the same energy content as oil you let me know, if you're not dead yourself by that time. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Funny how hardly anyone sees that this is true in economics specifically because it is true for energy (First Law of Thermodynamics) and energy is the primary non-recoverable input for the economy.
I hear some dudes got fusion working in their garage also. This despite the fact that fusion requires massive energy inputs as in the Sun. What makes fusion possible in the Sun is the Sun's mass. How will these conditions be created on the Earth?
Learn some basic physics and use your brain.
Peak oil does not have to mean death and the end of the world, provided industrialized civilization can wind down gradually and peacefully.
I don't hope for death. I hope for an orderly end to industrial civilization before it destroys the planet and spells death for all of us. Perhaps if we can wind down and become more mature as a species then in several millenia we can have another shot at galactic expansion.
TPOG
Natural fission requires the Earth's mass, yet we harvest that quite handily nuclear power. The idea behind low temperature fusion is that there is some method that can be used to catalyze the reaction. This may be possible using some form of crystal catalyst (which would force the nuclei close enough together for fusion to occur), or by utilizing the heat from bubble cavitation.
Christ, you tell me to learn about physics. I took two years of physical chemistry.
Listen to yourself--you want an END TO INDUSTRIAL CIVILIZATION! That IS death, you idiot! You advocate adopting a model that will ensure the death of humanity, and then have the gaul to tell everyone you don't want death. If you're so afraid of peak oil, kill yourself.
possibly, however peak cheap oil is certainly not.
What do you mean by "end of the age of oil"? We're not running out of oil, the U.S. still pumps something like 6M barrels a day. If you meant "the end of cheap, abundant oil", then I agree.
Elvis, it's not production shocks, it's supply-ability shocks that will choke the system.
I think we will watch them unfold together in the coming weeks and months.
ORI
Hey ORI, I think you need to take the plunge and get a real avatar. You're worth more than a paper bag picture.
Done! :-)
thanks.
Oh regional Indian
Dude, what kind of Sadhu is that?
Now this guy.....
http://www.sacredsites.com/asia/india/images/sadhu-01-500.jpg
Thanks Gully! Good find.
ORI
Like in 2008, when the oil companies where hoarding oil in off shore tankers?
Im sure a bomb will drop on the Suez Canal at some point and of course the elite
will have advanced knowlege.
And yes the elite want to dollar, while they introduce one of Soros's pet projects.
Must watch that video where Soros is talking about China must be a part of the NWO
and the part about SDR's (special drawing rights). We a glimmer in his eye and a shit eating grin, hypothizes how the IMF can pick up the 1/2 point cost for central banks using SDRS's. Bottom line is Soros is scheming to be the center of the universe, when the dollar defaults, and will be there touting his plan,
Soror reminds of Christifer Walkin in "King of New York" where he says,
"I want a piece of everything that happens in this park. I don't care if it's a nickel or a dime bag. I wanta piece."