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FOMC Minutes: Fed Is Now Openly Targetting A (Much) Lower Dollar

Tyler Durden's picture


Despite what some lying FOMC sack of fecal matter said on TV recently, it turns out the Fed was not only fully aware QE2 would crush the dollar, but welcomed it.

"Several participants argued that the stimulus provided by additional securities purchases would help protect against further disinflation and the small probability that the U.S. economy could fall into persistent deflation—an outcome that they thought would be very costly. Some participants, however, anticipated that additional purchases of longer-term securities would have only a limited effect on the pace of the recovery; they judged that the economy’s slow growth largely reflected the effects of factors that were not likely to respond to additional monetary policy stimulus and thought that additional action would be warranted only if the outlook worsened and the odds of deflation increased materially. Some participants noted concerns that additional expansion of the Federal Reserve’s balance sheet could put unwanted downward pressure on the dollar’s value in foreign exchange markets. Several participants saw a risk that a further increase in the size of the Federal Reserve’s asset portfolio, with an accompanying increase in the supply of excess reserves and in the monetary base, could cause an undesirably large increase in inflation."

And this:

"Participants also differed in their assessments of the likely benefits and costs associated with a program of purchasing additional longer-term securities in an effort to provide additional monetary stimulus, though most saw the benefits as exceeding the  costs in current circumstances. Most participants judged that a program of purchasing additional longer-term securities would put downward pressure on longer-term interest rates and boost asset prices; some observed that it could also lead to a reduction in the foreign exchange value of the dollar. Most expected these changes in financial conditions to help promote a  somewhat stronger recovery in output and employment while also helping return inflation, over time, to levels consistent with the Committee’s mandate."

We hope the middle class enjoys its daily KY stretching exercises by its Marriner Eccles feudal overlords.

Elsewhere the despots lowered their 2011 GDP target from a range of 2.9 to 4.5 to 2.5 to 4.0 (and 2010 to 2.3 to 2.5). Bill Gross knew this in September. To wit: "Our understanding is that the Fed is about to downgrade their forecast from 3% down to 2%." Can we please get in on whatever expert network PIMCO uses? We promise to expense it to US taxpayers as well.

Full minutes: 


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Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:10 | 750059 ReeferMac
ReeferMac's picture

Bullion, Bitchez!

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:14 | 750077 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Lead...... wrapped in a full metal jacket.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:24 | 750125 unwashedmass
unwashedmass's picture


sort of a jonathan swift way of taking care of things, Ben's talking. He's going to take the dollar down, and literally wipe out all the old and infirm on fixed incomes....and those stupid enough to save with CDs and Treasuries.....

quite a plan....of course, how we manage to teach the next generation that it is safe to save anything in the line of sight of the overlords is completely beyond me.

Anyway, how soon do we think that they are going to try to herd all the 401(K) money into the burrning boats of the Treasury?

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:25 | 750130 Horatio Beanblower
Horatio Beanblower's picture

Don't forget to use a little bit of copper too.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:31 | 750149 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Yeah and the sulfur,charcoal,and potassium nitrate. All good investments.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:05 | 750290 Xedus129
Xedus129's picture

nitroglycerin muahah 

Wed, 11/24/2010 - 02:53 | 751748 VodkaInKrakow
VodkaInKrakow's picture

RDX (dangerous, I know), C4, and a 9-volt battery connected to a cell-phone? Phone home to heaven? Funny how Chemistry class in 9th grade (taught by an actual Professor - loved the guy - best teacher) taught us the process for the production of Dynamite.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:44 | 750193 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

500 round cases of .308's, fast as I can order em for $160 each!

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:57 | 750253 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

I like your thinking.

12 month ago, I've would have said you're a looney but now I'm starting to think you kind of make sence.

Today I've got from a very good source that:

1. the silver markets in Europe are also exploding

2. The euro is going for a full blown implosion to.

I'm hoarding as much as I can for the moment. Almost all my cash is in silver now and soon I'm even thinking about going cash on my stocks to to go in silver even more.

But the one thing that is illegal and what I actually want is some firepower.

I did get a sweet deal on a AK from a guy in transport that does the eastern routes but my wife will kick me out when I buy something like that :)

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:02 | 750279 trav7777
trav7777's picture

with that much silver, you can get a couple of fresher wives

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:07 | 750297 pazmaker
pazmaker's picture

Without a firearm, how are you going toprotect all that silver?

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 18:38 | 750798 Shameful
Shameful's picture

That's a tough one.  If you need it and don' have it then totally screwed.  If you use it and the cops find it then it's jail time.  It's the problem with making guns illegal, only criminals get to have them.

Though if you do get something like that, just don't tell's what my dad did for a lot of his purchases and it's legal here :)

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 20:16 | 750963 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

If you need to fire your gun to protect yourself, the last thing you should be worried about is the cops.   BTW, did you know that any cop who loses his/her house to foreclosure is never employable in law enforcement again ( I was told this by a California foreclosure attorney)?  Ya think they're going to be evicting people in the future? 

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 20:22 | 750975 Shameful
Shameful's picture


They are the enforcement arm of the system after all, so I have to vote yes.  Out to make sure there is revenue coming in and people keep paying their fees.  Sure there is some BS about solving crime but that is getting phased out so they can focus on what's important, hustling people for cash.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:56 | 750468 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Why not rocks and bricks? They'll be as useful as your primitive bullets. When TSHTF, *they* will use directed energy to neutralize any threat. And Google will find your gold anywhere on this planet. You are all already mapped for serfdom.

Wed, 11/24/2010 - 00:23 | 751461 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Did I give you $0.65 at the BART station today?

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 18:34 | 750789 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Thats a good price. I've found Wolf in that ballpark, but not in stock last time I looked.  Link?

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:12 | 750069 squexx
squexx's picture

Yes, but is it bullish for tungsten?!?

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:14 | 750078 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

There they are, talking openly about their man-dates again. I'm okay with acceptance and all that, but in this case I really think you should just stay in the closet, guys. Seriously.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:19 | 750104 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I wish they would stick to talking about their man-dates and stay away from the print button.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:27 | 750134 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Maybe they need a date, then. A lot of the time, technology is just there to fill the void in your life where love use to be.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:19 | 750338 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

What are you suggesting? You seem to spend a lot of time here . :)

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:34 | 750398 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Because --- IT'S FUNNY!

I bet Carlin had days like this, too.

Wed, 11/24/2010 - 00:24 | 751465 snowball777
snowball777's picture

The guy is named Brian Sack...if that's not a weak porn name, what is?

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:17 | 750091 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Die Bernanke.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:19 | 750107 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Oh, you speak German!

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:22 | 750119 goldmiddelfinger
goldmiddelfinger's picture


Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:33 | 750155 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

ableben bernanke

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 17:01 | 750486 merehuman
merehuman's picture

Bernank is toten

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 17:02 | 750491 merehuman
merehuman's picture

Bernank is toten

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:17 | 750092 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Hard to believe that the market is going to crash unless some of these clothing retailers start showing some weakness.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:20 | 750109 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I just junked you because all the cool kids are doing it.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:22 | 750117 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I just junked you and Robo because you are doing it. Let's get an exponential thingy going here.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:26 | 750132 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Let's see...if I junk you and you junk robo...and robo junks me..... and so on,we could really fuck up the servers.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:29 | 750142 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Hey I'm gonna get all TSA on you and touch yer junk.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:33 | 750154 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Just so I'm are gonna touch my junk and then tell the TSA right?


Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:57 | 750254 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

I'm securitizing all your junks, calling in nasa to run the numbers, paying off ratings agencies, and selling them to easy money that will eventually be backstopped by the united states government...  and making a killing doing it.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:01 | 750274 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture


It figures the God Damn lawyer among us would make a killing on this. :>)

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:36 | 750405 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

But you junked him right? That's what matters here.

Hey, did you know you can even junk your own comments? That's for the emo crowd.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:05 | 750289 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I'll buy a hundred kajillion please.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:37 | 750406 fuu
fuu's picture

You do that while I set up the Junk Default Swaps. You can pick the Junk to put in each package and we can sell to HarryWanger.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:43 | 750425 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Does that mean I should go long HarryWanger?

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:49 | 750446 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Long Wanger?

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:50 | 750449 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I think you could go  long HarryWanger for a short period. Over the long haul the best play would be to short HarryWanger.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:22 | 750347 Djirk
Djirk's picture

I am going to junk you more than J LO has in the trunk

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:00 | 750267 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

I junked you to Robo, but only because Dr. Engali did it first.

Like my dad used to say: "When everybody is kicking somebody that is on the ground, it's fun to join the group".


Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:32 | 750389 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Plus it's good for morale. Pig pile on the toaster pastry endlessly waving his arms.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:47 | 750437 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I thought he was a rabid Mr. Potato head.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 19:23 | 750868 akak
akak's picture

Leo Kolonasskiss, RobotTraitor and jdrose1984: automatic "flag as junk"s from me.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:43 | 750190 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

this was a $47 stock in 2006, and was recently at $15, down about 20% since the Feb hi (you might pull your head out of your 15min charts long enough to look around)  but as long as the ratio of the gold stocks to the equity indexes is positive, we won't crash. when the gold market leads the way, look out.

and no junk, not worth it

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:48 | 750213 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

NO time for historical perspective! Same as Leo with his bullshit solar charts, time framed to give the biggest impression of a rally, yet pull back to 2 year chart and see theyre actually at near all time lows. I dont know what the point is these people here are trying to make with their lame chartology.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:16 | 750329 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

find a yahoo max chart on say IBM, going back to 62, and put a ruler under the lows and you project out to around  $20 a share. and between 85 and 95 the stock went from 40 -15, try to tell this to people, hey look you are here, and a 40% haircut is not a black swan, its a documented pullback.  and IBM is a good company.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:43 | 750191 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

BS 100% mark-up ripoff clothing stores and crappy bread retailers leading the market on no volume...hillarious!!

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:46 | 750204 HarryWanger
HarryWanger's picture

Exactly. SPX keeps rallying off 1175. And will continue to do so.

If lousy retailer like Chico's keeps running like this, you're correct, there will be no big pull backs.

Somehow, people can't understand here that these "end of world stories" fade into the consumer's oblivion (assuming they're even aware of them) in a millisecond. 

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:49 | 750218 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

'Keeps running'? Its up a measely buck over 3 months, and near all time lows.

Wed, 11/24/2010 - 00:28 | 751479 snowball777
snowball777's picture

After the 3rd Hermes bag, you're theory starts to fall apart.

Unless we get the top 1% an 18-wheeler full of crystal meth, they won't be able to Brewster's Millions their way toward recovery fast enough.



Tue, 11/23/2010 - 17:28 | 750581 revenue_anticip...
revenue_anticipation_believer's picture

ha ha lololol  M.A.D.  Mutual Assured Destruction by Junking,  drunk with Serial Junking Power

Angry Birds score, sorry failed this level...try again...

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:17 | 750093 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I'm seeing this MarketWatch headline as I type. "Fed cuts economic growth forecast through 2011, sees slower job growth."

You called it this morning Tyler. Bravo!

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:19 | 750103 goldmiddelfinger
goldmiddelfinger's picture

It was necessary to justify the sailing of QE2

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:17 | 750094 Jupiter
Jupiter's picture

Sure, the long-term yields may come down in the near future, but this is also a consequence of the mess in Europe.

Once the European crisis stabilized (with some outcome imminent, be it the dismemberment of the EMU or just a series of bailouts), the U.S. treasury market will then be the next to be targeted.

This is nothing more than an opportunity for participants to exit the long end of the curve courtesy of the Fed.

Of course, if the Fed is the lender of first resort, you can imagine what will happen to yields down the road.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:18 | 750097 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Nov. 23 (Bloomberg) -- Financier Evelyn de Rothschild talks about the outlook for Ireland's banking industry and the spread of the European sovereign debt crisis. He speaks with Bloomberg's Mark Barton during the Bloomberg Businessweek European Leadership Forum in London.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:34 | 750160 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Thanks for posting.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:19 | 750101 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Participants talk from every corner of their mouths, especially da Bernank, who wishes the poor would use the dollar to stoke their furnaces already.  When asked about this he replied, "Well, something has to replace oil, so why not paper."  Later he was found sporting a paper necklace at a chairity event for men who are bad business men.  It was hosted by Jay Z.  "I am tinkin' 'bout gettin' deez."  Jay said while fondling Da Bernank's paper piece like a TSA agent gone power hungry.  "Paper burns bwight, nowadimeen?" 

Later in the evening Da Bernank was seen rapping with P.Diddy.  "Don't hate the player,"  Said Da Bernank, "Hate the game."

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:20 | 750108 goldmiddelfinger
goldmiddelfinger's picture

And Bill Gross's minions channel checked with Ben for the inside info

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:23 | 750121 Financial_Guard...
Financial_Guardian_Angel's picture

PIMPCO and their fearless leader Bill must have the secret decoder ring given out to the annointed few by Benny and his Federal BS Reserve buddies.

Got to get me one of them rings...

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:56 | 750248 knukles
knukles's picture

S'on the tip of his nose.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 20:33 | 750988 unum mountaineer
unum mountaineer's picture

one ring to rule them all

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:29 | 750147 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Looks like everyone is dumping commodity stocks and piling into restaurants today.


Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:35 | 750162 packman
packman's picture

Tyler - seems like a little "addition by subtraction" may be in order.

IMO Robo crossed the line from "entertaining annoyance" to "annoying noise" some time ago.


Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:51 | 750228 jdrose1985
jdrose1985's picture

On the other hand the little pieces of shit on the ground are even worse than robo.

I don't even have to make any effort to reveal how moronic you've already revealed it yourself.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 18:43 | 750804 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Does no one else find Robo funny?  Guys he is cherry picking wacky stuff to show to piss you off.  I love it, shows how demented things are.  If I'm going to live in the Outer Limits I want to at least be able to have a laugh!

Like when he posts some of Rasputins stuff to, the imagery is good for a chuckle.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 19:17 | 750857 Troublehoff
Troublehoff's picture

yep, my all time two favourite posts:

1. Chambawamba's:

Bailout Rant 

2. RoboTrader's:

Masai Mara river crossing Cartoon Strip Metaphor (during some very high volatility around a year ago). Retail Trading Platform users getting raped by GS Prop Traders (Crocodiles) 


Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:41 | 750186 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

A bread store is the market leader....LMFBO!! BTW, Panera bread sucks, overpriced crap.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:06 | 750293 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

But their chocolate chip cookies are to DIE for!

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:47 | 750210 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

That stock is flat on the day, jagoff.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:54 | 750240 HarryWanger
HarryWanger's picture

Even the darling high flyers like CMG and NFLX are flat on the day. Again, people are spending money - every metric from Retail Sales to corporate retail earnings have shown this. 

Now, if it's the consumer who leads a recovery, then it's impossible to argue that the positive numbers we've seen are pointing toward economic growth. Slow but growth nonetheless.

Even with 9.6% unemployment, we're seeing a strong consumer. Imagine what happens when employment continues its slow, slow improvement. Yes, more consumer strength.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:11 | 750310 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

Statements like this really disturb me.  You ask what will happen when UE goes down when you should be asking what's going to happen when the EU checks stop coming..

Think about what retail is.. It's a bunch of stuff that is imported being sold by people making minimum wage. How absurd.. It kills me that people actually make a living with your myopic view of our economy.  You mention nothing about real fundamentals.. Not a single fundamental that has gotten us to where we are has improved..

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:15 | 750321 HarryWanger
HarryWanger's picture

No fundamentals go us here? Are you crazy? Look, the data hasn't been setting the world on fire but it's been improving steadily - everything from manufacturing to employment. Slow, slow but steady improvement. How are you not seeing that??

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:28 | 750374 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Yeah, so we got a slight uptick in tax intakes, which helped reduce the deficit from $1.7 to $1.6tn. But then, we got just about every municipality declaring bankruptcy.


Tue, 11/23/2010 - 18:51 | 750825 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Wanger's state (Washington) has to cut $900 million through this June-end budget. Has to cut 18% of it's next two year budget. That's bullish for HW...

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:49 | 750442 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

Are you crazy?

No, but it would help.  Check the Data. Look at the manufacturing and construction jobs lost. NO GAINS !!! 

Gains in service sector jobs do not count.  Not to REAL fundamentals... You know, the ones that would reverse the course we are on as an import/service (fantasy) economy.. Give me a break..  Drivel..

When I read a headline that says "Top U.S. MFG's to start repatriated production plants to U.S. .. I will concede a turn-around..

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:36 | 750401 Howard_Beale
Howard_Beale's picture

What the hell are you smoking?

Wed, 11/24/2010 - 00:33 | 751489 snowball777
Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:47 | 750439 DosZap
DosZap's picture


If you think the (REAL) U E Rate is 9.6%, you need a drink.(try 22%+/-)

Like their is no inflation, and Bernaki wants a 2% inflation rate.(try 10%+/-).

It's a rigged game of checkers,the stats leave out the Food/Fuel costs, in their numbers.

What you have is 20% of the highest earners,carrying the other 80%.

That's why their is ANY movement at all.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 17:07 | 750505 Skeebo
Skeebo's picture

All this is just paying attention to the cute kitty in the room while ignoring the starving tiger looking for dinner.

Consumer spending is a red herring, the cute kitty, state budget shortfalls are the hungry tigers looking for dinner. Texas, one of the better off states through this whole mess, is looking at a $21 Billion short-fall for the next Fiscal period and the federal stop-gaps are about to come to a screeching halt.

Also overlooked is the end of the "Bush" tax-cuts.  Come December you're going to get a whole bunch of people taking a serious look at either taking their profits before Dec 31st at a 15% rate or taking their chances after Jan 1.

For those of us not as bright as you Harry, what happens to the market when you get a massive sell-off?

You spouting off about AAPL and PCLN and 1175 and this and that, you're going to lose people money, a lot of it.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:55 | 750244 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

i got two theories about this, first these chains receive as much in subsidies (that is like government subsidies, mostly real estate breaks from cities who have lots of redevelopment money, -thanks to obummer- and while my local village is closing schools, turning off street lights, they are buying property and creating these public private corporate partnerships, often using taxdollars and eminent domain.) and its much easier to subsidize a chain, because the corporation will backstop them even if business isn't good at your local outlet. (this is how mayors and city council people think, and they are more likely to get their sales tax revenue that way)

second theory is these places are fronts for money laundering. You get a dozen customers, you run up ten grand in receipts and you fill the drawer with drug money. I know it is done this way in places where the stuff is grown, whether the corporate shell is as useful in that regard, I can't really say. 

third theory, the consumer expenditure number was up today, which means that all that SNAP money, all that section 8 money, all the entitlement money is being circulated, because no one pays their rent anymore, lets put on the feedbag.

now just think about ways this little party get broken up, and is the group overbuilt, and are the fundamentals lousy. yes, yes and yes


Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:00 | 750268 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

third time (theory) is the charm...

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 19:37 | 750885 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

@ Robotrader:





Pardon me for yelling, but I felt that needed to be exclaimed.


Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:34 | 750157 pazmaker
pazmaker's picture

I'm getting sick of all of this someone hit the restart button.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:37 | 750170 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Do it yourself.  Buy silver.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:51 | 750209 Dagny Taggart
Dagny Taggart's picture

I saw a bright rainbow in the sky yesterday and thought of you and your little pony... and then silver. Visual associations... "Look kids, a rainbow. Pretty. We're going to need more silver."

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:51 | 750455 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Added more,cleaned out APMEX on 10oz bars this a.m..........if it dips below $27.00, or close I am snagging several more 100oz bars.

People need to get out of rectal defilade, and understand their FRNS are going to go to zero,or so close they will be paupers and serfs.Or soylent green.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:39 | 750181 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

The tighter the FED squeezes the dollar, the higher it goes!!

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:45 | 750199 jdrose1985
jdrose1985's picture

Yep, and the people who buy into Ben's grandiose delusions cling ever harder to the belief that the dollar is going to be sold off into oblivion any day now lol.

All the times Tylers have regurgitated these stupid warnings probably number in the thousands by now, only to be proven wrong time and time again.

Actually ZH is simply perpetuating the lies which are designed to keep the sheep marching to their doom.

When the people realize that there is no inflation coming the implosion will outdo everything witnessed before, combined.


Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:51 | 750225 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Ive tried to tell you many times youre wrong, Tyler has never shouted 'INFLATION COMIN'! Hes been saying for a long time what youll see is biflation, I totaly agree.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:02 | 750258 jdrose1985
jdrose1985's picture

there is no such thing as biflation, really.

you're trying to tell me 2+2=3 or 5.

looking at the credit supply and tell me it's both going down and up at the same time, that's what you're doing.

Doesn't matter what Tyler says or I say or you say, really. All that matters is you morons believe anything Ben says. Whatever Ben says, you guys start running around in circles even faster hoping to hit the jackpot. Kinda funny, I've been hearing the dollar was going to be printing in the 50's for almost 5 years now and it's actually printing higher lows now. Funny how that works.




Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:40 | 750417 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Yea what you need to buy goes up, what you want to sell or count as an asset drops. Simple. And Tyler never said 'inflation is coming' ever.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 18:13 | 750755 jdrose1985
jdrose1985's picture

Yeah right, Tyler has been screaming from the mountaintops that inflation is coming, that's why the goldbug army infests this place.

Gas is 25% lower than it was 2 years ago and the industrial materials I buy are cheaper too. Food is roughly the same except there are supply factors driving prices up which is not "inflation" of the money supply.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 18:55 | 750831 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Local university raised prices 14% two years in a row. Health care premiums up 10%/yr for years. 

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 19:24 | 750869 Shameful
Shameful's picture

14% the pussies!

My alma mater, Party State, has DOUBLED their tution since I graduated in 07.  DOUBLED!

I worked my way through and had to cut back on excess spending then, at the current rates I would have been forced to either work even more or take on debt.  What I'm waiting for is if it can double again by 2013.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 19:28 | 750876 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Uh... gold was up again today. Looks like the gold bug army is winning.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 17:20 | 750550 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

Tyler... check the CAPCHA feature.

It is obviously NOT working as planned!

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 18:15 | 750758 jdrose1985
jdrose1985's picture

Yeah Tyler please make it a little harder so the anklebiters like gmrpeabody can scram back to the Yahoo! boards.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 19:26 | 750871 akak
akak's picture

You are really quite a worthless (and arrogant) piece of shit as far as your contributions to this forum are concerned.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 22:57 | 751254 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

I mean, reeeeallly.........who the FOK is this idiot?

Wed, 11/24/2010 - 00:37 | 751506 snowball777
snowball777's picture

You provide absolutely zero semantic content.


Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:04 | 750283 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

Deflationists keep shouting down from their Exter's inverted pyramid as if inflationist are so naive.   Over the past century, how often has the CPI been negative?  Deflationists keep preaching about a soon to come day of deflation but they never deliver with the goods.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:19 | 750336 jdrose1985
jdrose1985's picture

I don't have to deliver anything. My opinion is worth nothing, when it all boils down. Worth about as much as Tylers opinion and your opinion.

You can shop all day for opinions til you find the one that makes you feel like you're going to hit the jackpot you're looking for.

All I can do is point the way to what the end of a system looks like.

Ultimately it's the US consumer who dictates what comes down the line, who manufacture money. Unfortunately for eeveryone here they are maxed out. You can sit a group of people down to a buffet but once the buttons are popping off everyones shirts you can reduce the price of food to zero to no avail. You can try to pay people to eat. Good luck with that, it's what you're all thinking is going to happen.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:25 | 750360 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

If your opinion is worth nothing, you sure spend a lot of time trying to get people to believe it.  Once again you point to a perceived end game (deflation) but ignore the fact it basically has never happened for any period within the past century.  People are not tired of consuming.  They just dont have any money to use.  If the FED was to wipe away all CC debt, do you think the consumer will say, "no thanks, Im full?"

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:52 | 750432 jdrose1985
jdrose1985's picture


I don't recally trying to convince anybody that I'm right. All I can do is point to the fact that you all are hand in hand with the rest of team Bernanke and biting hook line and sinker. Yep, marching in lockstep.

Never pointed to any endgame. I'm not stupid enough to think there is an end game. Every moment is a transitory state.

You're right, people aren't tired of consuming. Never said they were.

Funny how you say "If" they wiped away CC debt. That's your investment thesis? "If".

All consumer debt is going to be wiped away, that's for sure. One way or another. But you all think they're just going to send everyone a nice little card in the mail stating that you're off the hook now. That seems like a delusional fantasy to me.

As far as never happening in the past century, well I guess you are choosing to ignore what happened in the home of the last world reserve once they deflated. Dumpin grain in the ocean will citizens starved to death trying to get prices up and inflation going again. Basically the train is just leaving the station at this point. Dead cat bounce is over by now most likely.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:54 | 750464 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

Funny how you say "If" they wiped away CC debt. That's your investment thesis? "If".

Its not a thesis.  Its a question.  You stated that the fat slobs at the buffet would not eat more, even if the food cost zero.  That was a bad analogy.  The better analogy would be if the fat slob went to the bathroom and purged, would they eat more?  the anwer is yes.  Before you dismiss the possibility of the FED monetizing CC debt, has the FED monetized MBS?  Has it monetized Tresuries?  Will it monetize Fanny Mae debt?  What cant it monetize?  End of deflation discussion.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:59 | 750481 jdrose1985
jdrose1985's picture

I'm not going to keep playing this game with you.

No matter what I say you're going to keep coming at me with an endless barrage of reasonable assumptions. Wasting both our time.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 17:57 | 750701 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Great, feel free to fuck off anytime you like.  Spread your worthless opinion elsewhere.  Some of us value our opinions and our time.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 17:01 | 750487 jdrose1985
jdrose1985's picture

I'm not going to keep playing this game with you.

No matter what I say you're going to keep coming at me with an endless barrage of reasonable assumptions. Wasting both our time.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 17:24 | 750567 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

I am still trying to figure out how you knew what -6 + (_) = 3 was!

Wed, 11/24/2010 - 00:40 | 751513 snowball777
snowball777's picture

I guess you're clearly unprepared for reasonable assumptions and a discussion with you can't help but be a waste of time (like debating a chimp).

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:41 | 750420 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

BTW jdrose, go fuck yourself. Calling me a moron, 'believing everything Ben says'? Just go fuck yourself idiot.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:54 | 750465 jdrose1985
jdrose1985's picture

Must have hit a nerve. Sorry, I'm not trying to make you upset.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 17:56 | 750698 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Yes you are, you liar.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 17:55 | 750696 tmosley
tmosley's picture

lol, buy side inflation.  The 90's are <-----that way.

People see dollars flooding into the economy, piling up in the markets, and on the banks balance sheets.  They think to themselves "holy shit, they are monetizing their debts, time to get the fuck out".  They buy commodities.  Prices for commodities go up.  The end users of those commodities may be too poor to afford them, but guess what, THAT DOESN'T MATTER, because the demand isn't coming from end users, it is coming from people trying to protect their wealth.  Prices for basic goods will rise just the same.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 21:03 | 751029 Atlas Shrieked
Atlas Shrieked's picture

Gold performs better during deflationary periods than inflation, at least in real terms.  For instance, we had modest inflation between 1980 and 2000 and gold performed horribly.  But it does real well during hyperinflation.  What precious metals need is a banking crisis, a currency crisis,  or financial distress.  We appear to have all 3.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:26 | 750366 MyKillK
MyKillK's picture

There is still 1 trillion dollars in excess banking reserves being held at the Fed. When rates start going up (which we are just starting to see) that money isn't going to stay there forever. You really see no inflation on the horizon when this enormous sum of money is ready to be let loose?

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 18:51 | 750819 Shameful
Shameful's picture

The dollar will die.  Hell I'll go on record to say that all currencies in existence right now will die.  I might not live long enough to see it, but it will happen.  They'll die and get replaced.  So it will happen with the dollar.  But only after the foreigners get sufficiently pissed to leave, and when that happens is anyone's guess.  When the foreigners stop using it as the value standard of choice one of the main legs gets kicked out from under the dollar, and it's likely to be a wild ride after that. It's a faith based currency system so it only dies when it runs out of believers.  Bernake's printing is not making the flock feel at ease.

And there is price inflation.  I don't eat out much so when I do I can see the price move.  Same with groceries.  I'm a value shopper, and mostly a carnivore and I've watched meat prices steadily climb in my area (like in bacon).  But then I'm an oddity, a single man with a freezer full of meat and fridge full of veggies :)

Wed, 11/24/2010 - 03:34 | 751784 CD
CD's picture

Seeing as you recently graduated, you may be (un)lucky enough to bear witness...

China, Russia quit dollar on bilateral trade

08:22, November 24, 2010

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:47 | 750211 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Ben devaluing the dollar isn't nearly as afraid as everyone else piling into the dollar for safety.

This will get worse if we ever wind up with a a shooting war on the Korean peninsula, for example.

Oh. Wait ...

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:47 | 750212 TooBearish
TooBearish's picture

Hmm Hows that again - lower USD? not happening, Lower LT rates, nope, up 50bps since 11/2.  So how are you measuring the efficacy of this insane policy Benron?

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:52 | 750217 knukles
knukles's picture

Liar, liar, pants on fire.

Don't say anything bad about The Bernak or his Fed.  Them childish cartoons, Republican and Democratic criticism, articles on ZH; it weakens their public image, demeans them as capable policy makers and destroys their credibility. 

Now, on to the minutes.  They weaken thier public image, demeans them as capable policy makers and destroys their credibility. 

This could not be better played for a weaker dollar.  Tell me please, one single simple fucking reason that the dollar, other than the knee jerk reaction to international crises safe haven moments, should trade strongly.....  Except that the Euro amongst others are even more fucked.

Gosh.  We sure need a more powerful, centralized global gubamint to take care of all these problems.  I mean, whatever happened to Kumbaya?

The Power Elite are really struggling, having a bad day.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 15:54 | 750232 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Thats all, other things just more fuked than our hobos gleeful of obects theyre finding in the city dump, no big deal just a bunch of crap. The FED can keep their smelly glove.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:07 | 750288 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Cramer was probably eating some Panera on screen today during his lunch pump spot on CNBC.


Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:09 | 750301 ronin12
ronin12's picture

I will be attending an economic seminar with Charles Plosser on December 2nd.

Any suggestions on what I should ask him should I have the opportunity?



Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:11 | 750309 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Well get the hell to it, Bernank!  I got some underwater EM plays that need savin

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:14 | 750315 omer10
omer10's picture

There is no sense trying to understand what consumer is doing, you can t argue with the charts, Robo is showing, they are selected to show strength. On the other hand dont believe the bullshit on the other extreme, like $ is gonna go to zero, Dow to 20000 etc,  few weeks ago. Appl is the barometer, its just not being sold. And for now SPX is bouncing from 1175s, like it was holding at 1070 few months back until it didnt. Best to be in sidelines 22 day MA is around 1197 , it makes sense to go long if it decidedly passes that level, for a retest of 1220s. Short might be tried if closes below 1175, but with tight stop,  but despite all bad news,Euro shit,  overvaluation it still doesnt  doesnt even come there, and with all the POMO, PPT action, risk/reward is too high to short. Flat is the new short.Just hold on to your Silver/Gold, play stock with options, futures, if you like to take your chance..

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:59 | 750478 DosZap
DosZap's picture


You can't argue with the charts, correct.Or what the consumer(all 20% are doing),but you can damn sure know where the Frns are coming from to keep pushing the market,and it's not from the consumers.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:16 | 750325 redpill
redpill's picture

If they believe their mandate is to create inflation so the federal government can afford its foreign wars and domestic hand-outs, how can they simultaneously believe they are acting in an independent (and according to Timmy, non-political) manner?  

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:23 | 750351 richiebaby
richiebaby's picture

If the FBI wants Little Stevie they don't have to look any further than FRPT.

SAC wrought havoc on that company assisted by Cramer and Sweet Melissa Davis

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:43 | 750429 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

Duh! Inflate the debt problem away (or at least give it your best try). Wonder what ZH will write when in ten years we reach QE30! LOL!!!!

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 18:58 | 750836 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Well at that point I'll be bitching about my basic Internet package running $500 a month.  Hopefully holographic porn will soothe the pain away...

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 19:18 | 750861 akak
akak's picture

And I wonder what YOU will write when the current corrupt and unsustainable financial and monetary paradigm (which you so lovingly embrace) comes crashing to the ground sometime over the next few years?  Oh, but "it can't happen here!", can it Leo?

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 16:51 | 750456 topshelfstuff
topshelfstuff's picture

Repeat my Best Guess, 1 of these 2

1) Move the Decimal Point, create new Paper Dollars, with at least one definite rule, which would be to keep all Mortgage Debt as-is, the current dollars that would be called "Old" Dollars after this move, but payable with the New Dollars. This would resolve the Mortage Fiasco. So a person who makes $700 a week now would be making $7,000 a week afterwards. It would take about one week for everyone to turn in their cash in exchange for the new dollars. After a certain date they wouldn't be acceptable. The US Foreign Debts still get their $xxx dollars but they would be getting paid with a dollar 1/10 of the dollars today---a dime today a dollar then----most anyone would be a millionaire, just like in many countries, like Japan, India, China and pre EURO uropean countries, like Italy's Lira--or


2) Peg the USD to China Yuan, instead of a 1/0 chane it would be about a 1/7 change, about 14-15 cent dollar and the same ruling RE: Mortgage Debt

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 17:22 | 750562 flaunt
flaunt's picture

I don't know if I just never paid attention to the criminal Fed before, but did they always talk so aggressively about their supposed "dual mandate" for maximum employment and "stable prices" (i.e. high inflation)?  That an organization blessed by the federal gov't can have a mandate for destroying the value of the savings of billions around the world just shows how rotten the whole system has become.  If they completely destroy the currency, good riddance to the whole thing.  Hopefully we will be smart enough to not establish another government -- To do so would be to kick the can down the road another several decades to a hundred years and let someone else deal with the tough issues.  Society can get along without creating a center of power destined to morph into a criminal enterprise that preys on any decent human beings who happen to live under its claimed jurisdiction.


Thu, 11/25/2010 - 18:53 | 755168 honestann
honestann's picture

No kidding.  End the illusion and delusion of government.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 18:45 | 750813 P-K4
P-K4's picture

"Lying FOMC sack of fecal matter ?"  Here, here, there's no need for redundancy.


Tue, 11/23/2010 - 18:52 | 750826 Convolved Man
Convolved Man's picture

The Fed's monetary policy has been approved, instituted and explained.

Those who understand the implications are free to create wealth during the brief period of market turmoil that is sure to follow.


Tue, 11/23/2010 - 19:44 | 750909 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Wheeeeee!  The Fed has replaced all the savers in the U.S. with nearly interest free money. I'm free to go spend my savings now!

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 22:12 | 751134 Black Friday
Black Friday's picture

The Bernack is an odiferous oddity...That Bastnack!

On a side note, Friday shopping will fix everything!



Or not...


Wed, 11/24/2010 - 00:41 | 751516 snowball777
snowball777's picture

The latter.

Wed, 11/24/2010 - 11:10 | 752290 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

This isn't news.  Fed's been diluting dollar value since 1913.

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