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Food Stamp Usage Hits New High Of 43.2 Million
Ever wonder where all the money for equity inflows came from? Here's the answer: with all the money saved from participating in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, better known as foodstamps, which in October hit a brand new record, 43.2 million Americans decided to join in on this "wealth effect" they had been hearing so much about and buy Apple stock. After all 190 hedge funds are doing it: and there is no way that 190 hedge funds can possibly be wrong. As a result, the chart below shows our nation's pending wealth effect in its full glory. Just think: 43.2 millionaire in waiting. Just consider the guaranteed explosion to money velocity...
h/t john lohman
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America's foundation continues to crumble even as they party hearty at the top.
"Recession? What recession? I'm doing just fine. Yeah, yeah I know some people are having a tough time lately. But things are getting better. I see it everyday in my gated community."
And under my bridge too
Ah yes the socio-class disconnect. Nordstoms is Vahalla in todays age. Come get your popcorn and watch Suzie shop till the world drops.
Question. Do the numbers tell the whole story? What about state assistance, such as the WIC program in FLorida. WIC is not the federal foodstamp program, but pays for certain food items for women and dependant children. (peanut butter, cereal, eggs, milk, bread etc.
Sounds like state-sponsored age and sex discrimination.
Bums unite and fight!
I don't think WIC is included there.
Want to watch a catfight online? Go to any of the Mommy Forums and start a thread about whether or not WIC is welfare. The rationales offered by those on the teat will blow your mind.
Speaking of which, how is the no-longer-new off spring. Must be crawling all over the place by now, right?
Not quite, but she is laughing and "talking" up a storm. There is nothing like a happy baby!
:>)
The beautiful babble is just practice for the real thing coming round the corner. Even at this stage of development, your baby's brain is more powerful than a supercomputer. Truly amazing watching them grow and learn. Puts everything else made by (wo)man to shame.
This brings up a good point, state programs that target women. Every asked why? After all in our age of equality should not men be able to get the same kind of aid? Seems to me it's because a tend that has been noticed by the tyrants of old, women will give up most anything for security. Hitler knew this and said as much. By targeting women the state finds a group that is more willing to take on the protections in of the state, security in exchange for liberty.
This is accentuated by the decay of the social order and family. Sadly in many cases the husband/father these days is the state. It would be foolish to expect these women to think or act against the state when their security of food and comfort comes from the state. Damn nature makes it easier for us as a species to be exploited once again. How lucky for the state that families are so hard to hold together and so many children are born outside of traditional family systems.
Note: This is not an attack on women. This is simply an observation of broad generalities. I have known extremely intelligent independent libertarian women, and I have known sniveling cowardly men that love the state security. I paint with a broad stroke because that is the way things work in society at large. I cannot think that one would ask me for a flaw in men, just turn on any TV show and I'm sure the MSM will oblige, maybe show a fat idiot married to a stunningly intelligent beauty.
Well when you incentivize the behaviors that lead to the exact behavior you are trying to prevent it creates a vicious cycle of dependency.
What if they were not trying to prevent that behavior but create it? Now it's possible that government accidentally implements all the wrong policies 100% of the time. But it's also possible for a person to win the lottery 10 times in a row. But at what point does one step back and ask "Huh, is this game rigged?"? Particularly when being wrong benefits them. After all if they actually prevented this behavior the bureaucrats would work themselves out of jobs and the state would lose power in this area.
If I kept accidentally wandering into the girls locker room during showers day after day some might think I was trying to sneak a peak not that I was dumb and kept misreading the sign ;)
We have a winner!
Survey says......Ding!
And you have teased the thought out to the logical conclusion. :)
If a merchant cheats you, you won't go back. If a merchant cheats enough people, he'll go out of business. If a government bureaucrat cheats you, then he receives no punishment. In fact, he'll probably receive more funding and more authority to do a job he was too incompetent to do and had no incentive to do effectively in the first place.
*ponders* Shameful's question. . .
perhaps you can see this as supplemental benefits for the men who provided the sperm to make the babies that the women are raising on their own, with gov't assistance. . .
(by the way, plenty of men raising their kids on benefits too ^^)
also, the "women will give up most anything for security" thought may come from the fact that historically, women tend to be subject to men's predatory behaviours, and are thus encouraged to bond for protection - although, given most violence on women is within relationships, go figure.
of course, I agree that gender'd role-playing is a major culprit here, but people do tend to subscribe, what can ya do?
That sounds like a guy who still wants to get laid...
Plus the free lunch at school program, which can also include free breakfast and dinner. In summer, when school is out (summer lunch program), they move to the parks or schoolyards and will feed the parents too, if they show up.
Childcare providers can also join USDA nutrition program that will pay for food for the tots too young to go to school. Many health departments provide free formula for the infants. Many health departments also provide free breast pumps, child car seats and diapers too.
"Share the wealth" = give more food stamps....
Is there a derivative on food stamps? Or a triple leveraged ETF? If so, I'm all in.
Yep, TBF, TBT and for the 3x TMV.
TBTF??
Of course the number is rising.
It won't go down, ever. Unless the program is replaced with something else.
Try to ween people from free goodies and you have riots, revolution and civil war.
Did the community organizers of this program understand this concept???? You bet!
Incorrect. Food stamp usage will go down when the opportunity the opportunity to benefit re-emerges in the West rather than the fear of loss. We have entered the "no growth" zone. It is not the general population that funds reform, it is typically the same lot of investor class that funded reform over decades in the boom phases of the CB model.
The dollar will resume devaluation, I believe down to the .60 range, the stock market will correct lower (probably by 20%) and unskilled wages are already down to $10 an hour. The bust pattern is a W beginning in 2008 and second leg down should be second quarter 2011. Housing and BDI already confirming the pattern. 2013 should be the start of a tepid but sustainable bull but Washington is still very much a wild card in that forecast.
Raging Debate
I think those at Automatic Earth, and quite a few other sites, would disagree with you.
PIMCO's M. El-Erian implicitly compares the country of the future (the former banana republic known as Brazil) versus the failing empire of the past (the up-and-coming banana republic known as the USA):
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-07/country-of-future-owes-much-to-one-man-commentary-by-mohamed-a-el-erian.html
"...First, and from his first day in office, Lula recognized that there were no inherent contradictions among financial stability, economic growth and improved social conditions...
Second, he understood the imperative of clear and timely communication. He was open about the serious challenges facing Brazil and the sacrifices required...
Third, after clearly setting the strategic economic vision, he delegated implementation to a carefully chosen set of technocrats. He intentionally didn’t rely on experienced policy makers...
Finally, he understood the importance of institutional integrity and clear accountability..."
(No wonder Volcker left...)
gigeze,
While Lula did a great job as President of Brazil, I am less optimistic re the new lady doing as a good a job, she sounds like another lefty... Even she is just average for Brazil, the average has been pretty bad.
Yes, Brazil has lots of industry and resources. But, Brazil is infamous for always being the country of the future. It is easier to mess up a country than to move it forward.
When Uranus and Venus converge, Brazil will be the next galactic super power.
The entire country is completely fucking nuts.
beware of brazil and venus merging in ur anus
After 3 caiparinhas Brazil makes perfect sense.
Brazilians just seem nuts to Americans because they are happy.
Brazil is the perfect capitalist economy, maybe only 2nd to Russia.
Money buys you happiness in Brazil.
especially those droves of feral children, they're full of glee. BTW, what does an out of state license cost to hunt them?
Sure, Brasil makes perfect sense after 3 caiparinhas because you are drunk. When you wake up the next day with no wallet, and no passport I am sure you made some Brasillian happy.
Brasil and America are becoming closer and closer everyday to being the same. The only advantage they still have over us is they still have a manufacturing industry with little environmental regulation.
When politicians throw food and shoes off the back of trucks to garner votes here we will be right on course to being happy like Brasil.
Uhh...actually, Lula was "another lefty", too. Except the paradigm was meaningless.
I agree, though, Lula is a tough act to follow.
Wish the gringos could say the same about 'another rightie': GWB, paragon of religious-right rectitude and tool of the NeoCon elite, God's choice to bankrupt America thru optional wars and the 'ownership society.'
As ZH should teach us all, right-left, GOP-Dem, Fox-MSNBC is just fodder to occupy and amuse the unthinking proletariat masses. Results matter. Lula and Brazil produced, while the USA is sadly failing (in a bipartisan way).
Agree that Lula was a lefty..., until he became President. Also agree he will be a tough act to follow. Also agree that GWB done us wrong, big time.
Results (and elections) matter, agree again.
...
I do not like either country medium term (USA vs. Brazil).
I don't even like China, they (history teaches us) always find a way to screw up just as they approach becoming great. The Communist Dynasty will be no different IMHO.
Yes, Lula, the father of free credit will be a tough act to follow. Allowing Brazilians with no real income to get lines of credit to buy 52" TV over 5000 payments. See I can understand where you would think this is an innovation as compared to the American way of life. I wonder how long it will take Brazil to be where America is today?
The public health care system sucks, unless you have money, and then it still sucks unless you have a lot of money and are connected! See they have two different clinics in Brazil. One for those who have money (guess where any sick tourists end up at?) and another for all of the 28% poor (and this type of poor is not the same poor in America, for those who are thinking that isn't so bad) and the 10% destitute (which mainstream Americans can NOT begin to comprehend). And to make it even more fun, the poor clinics are where the college students get their training. Yea, you know the ones who spent their whole time cheating off one another while the professor was "not paying attention" (again that money thing where those who have can buy happiness).
I will say one positive thing about Brazil if you have money you can get a better education than you can get here in the U.S.. That is when the teachers are not on strike. However, if you are part of that poor category you are basically screwed to a menial life of parties and visits to the beach.
Is it changing for the better? Thank God it is because where it came from was no picnic for the poor/destitute. But I find it is falling into the same bad practices as America, and we all know how wonderful that has turned out, don't we?
Don't get me wrong, I love Brazil, and my Brazilian wife, but please don't blow smoke up peoples asses just because the only data out there to regular Americans is all fluff, sex parties, carnival, and beaches.
US Population = ~310 million
US Foodstamps = ~44 million (Est. January Numbers)
That's 1 out of every 7.1 people you see are on Food Stamps
I see them every day at my Starbucks
The USSR had no unemployment and no poverty.
Everybody had a job and everybody got paid equal ... well in theory.
Looks like the US is doing its best to copy that.. food stamps, currency and all.
"Food stamps" is misleading term. The government issues cash cards that can be used for any purchase at any grocery store. There are some limitations but the cards get reloaded automatically right after every month's POMO (LOL) .
How the fuck this country is still keeping it together is beyond me.
wondering what a 0.1 person looks like
Anybody who makes less then 250.000$ a year.
Samuel, I heard the 43+ MM is only the adults getting the cads...
Oh yes and they now have what looks like a credit card so they don't have to be embarrassed in the check-out lane.
cheaper for JPMorgue to issue plastic than cut & mail cheques every month, then deal with the drama of stuff missing in the mail & angry/weeping phone calls, eh? I'd use plastic too. . .
Here you go my little parasites, see what freebees you can leech
http://www.benefits.gov/
OMG ... I thought you were kidding ... it really exists!
Subscribe to email updates for up to date information on the newest sugar from the teat:
https://service.govdelivery.com/service/multi_subscribe.html?code=USGOVBENEFITS_1&login=Enter%20email%20to%20receive%20alerts&origin=http://www.benefits.gov/
1 What type of benefits are you looking for?
Career Development Assistance
Child Care/Child Support
Counsel/Counseling
Disability Assistance
Disaster Relief
Education/Training
Energy Assistance
Food/Nutrition
Grants/Scholarships/Fellowships
Healthcare
Housing
Insurance
Living Assistance
Loan/Loan Repayment
Medicaid/Medicare
Social Security
Tax Assistance
Veterans - Active Duty
Volunteer Opportunities
Other
All of the above and more, bitchezzzz!!!!!
No free parking? That's just cruel!
Damn, no data plans... That's worse.
Now that sounds compelling.
I'm hanging around for the disaster relief
Frankly, disgusting.
I just went through the entire questionnaire. Sadly I do not qualify for anything. My dog on the other hand.......
Makes only sense.
After all, your dog probably voted too! And your deceased great grand mother.. and so on..
Hey, it's America! Your dog should have a voice too!
My understanding is that there is a secret password protected Fed web site with another questionnaire for Ponzi members.
How can I help you steal profit today?
I hear you. Basically, if you pull more than 50k a year, they're not done milking you dry and you regrettably don't qual for shit. You just pay for it all.
Keep it up motherfuckers. Wrath capacitor is charging.
you do qualify for mandatory indoctrination training at the FEMA slave (I mean education) camp for that answer.
Some fed fuckups will be around to escort you at a time of their choosing
No wonder we don't see Mathew Lesko(the free government money guy that wears ? question marks) informercials anymore, benefits.gov put him out of business!
I just looked him up and he has a site that charges 19.95 for government benefits info. Brilliant! makin affiliate money
I love the line, "benefits.gov is now BENEFITS.gov."
CAPSLOCK, FTW!!!111
A country filled by people who cannot even afford food.
Banana Republics are even more capitalist than this, overthere people who cannot afford food, simply die.
And here ... people who can afford food, simply pay.
NO! You got it wrong!
In a classic Banana Republic the people that cannot afford food get angry and chase every politician out of the country!
The problem is that the American people who cannot afford food are buying useless junk including junk food, sit on their ass and waiting for Mr. Government to bring them a job offer or the very least find their remote control in their fat blubber bodies or between the junk food remnants in their couches.
Americans are fat and fucked.
With the 1.73 multiplier we will be out of the recession sooner than expected!
Food Stamp use will continue to increase as food costs also rise. This puts the double bite on the governments which are already broke. The USDA does not hold the huge reserves of grain, canned meat, butter, etc that it did in past years. Crop production in the past 2 years World Wide has had problems.
Yesterday it was reported that the military will reduce numbers. The one safety valve left for the young unemployed is gone. The older unemployed are without any prospect of jobs. America has the most educated, unemployed job force in history.
Food control may be the key to population control. Jobs would be a better solution.
By the way, I was in WalMart last night and there was a screen at the check out with the Homeland Security chief warning the public to be aware. It would be handy to tie food stamps into that system. Have the applicants fill out a form periodically to report suspicious things. Just thinking 1933, tryin to be helpful.
But of course. To starve the world, the US needs an army of eating gluttons. You dont starve the world with one million people eating their fill.
Storing food is a mistake, an extra cost (though it can help the US in its effort to starve the world, therefore a patriotic movement)
Dont store food, you will get fed by the US because soldiers are needed to win the food war.
If you were thinking 1933, those people would be in some public works program(and thus doing something productive).
Ah Rome!
The Quaestor has said the treasury is bursting, and free bead will flow to all. I hear the Emperor will stage a new set of games next month, the Aediles work feverishly to prepare to ensure they will be remember for generations to come. Truly the gods have smiled on our Empire!
Hungry people are dangerous people. When the mass man is fed and entertained he is compliant. Food is made available and entertainment has never been more abundant or cheap. It cannot stop the rot of the decay, but it can keep the masses from noticing till the decay has destroyed all the wealth in the empire. Well except the wealth of the oligarchy of course, they are the ones handing out bread and circus.
Even the oligarchy's power was diminished from the reckless spending. Although, many just headed to Constantinople to be its new parasite on the surrounding territories.
By the time anyone got around to sacking Rome, there was almost nothing left.
Where will the current oligarchy retreat to, China?
I have been meaning to read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Brief_History_of_the_Future
In short I expect a system of feudalism to reestablish itself, much like after Rome. There still will be city/nation states but much of the power will be held directly by the oligarchy and control via the corporate system. More direct control and a purging of the less efficient middle management.
So I expect the oligarchy to own the land, and perhaps even the new empty cities and move their servants into them while leaving the masses to rot within the decaying boundaries of the old. Quite nice that global food production is being consolidated. A major city misses a few food shipments and what happens?
Remember certain groups have talked about getting down to say .5-2 billion people at centuries end. How can this happen without a mass die off? With modern tech the oligarchy does not need the mass of humanity to provide manual labor. In their mind the mass man is becoming obsolete, so why leave him live and consume their resources? Is their power reduced if they stand astride a smaller mankind with even greater control of the resources?
What we are in now is just another phase of history, neither beginning nor end. The Century of Change is here and change there will be for good or ill. On the plus side for us, what these writers often propose is a revolt against the laws of economics so ultimately that would fail, but we to would bear the pain. The Soviet Union failed, but the toll on life was a deep tragedy.
I hate to break it to you but you are just too used to the way things are. This is the point in the relationship where people ask what the hell is going on and don't budge until it's crystal clear. We are not just going to slap a paint job on the old model and soldier on. There are going to be deep deep deep changes.
Got mine today. Food Stamps FTW.
Folks
I have a good story for you.
Six months ago I was at a check out counter and here is this well coiffed blue hair with a real Rolex passing food stamps to the check out girl. I was incensed. I inquired, " Aren't you ashamed of yourself. " She looked at me and said they belonged to her mother.
I looked at the clerk and said, " Would you please get the manager, it is a felony to cash in food stamps that are not yours." The woman picked them up, left her food and ran out of the store.
I do not know if it is a felony, but obvious to me neither did she. How many scumbags are beating the system by signing up for stamps without need.
Dear HHS....You suck!
Innsbrook
It's possible you just committed a crime against the state -- willful prevention of a consumption transaction.
If you ask Pelosi she'll tell you unemployment and food stamps really stimulate the economy!
I salute you
Prolly wasn't her card. Many foodstamp recipients sell their Snap cards to purchase drugs (prescription and illegal). Sure, some are abusing the system. But for many, hardwork doesn't pay off anymore because the oligarchy makes it almost impossible to get ahead.
You do realize that Food Stamps are no longer paper coupons - they are now a plastic debit card managed by jpm. I don't know how you could tell this older woman was using food stamps unless you are merely engaging in mental theater to pad your apparently slender existence. Brave of you to challenge her right to spend those nonexistent food stamps that you instantly recognised on sight even though they haven't been in circulation for years, may you continue to have entertaining hallucinations and by all means post them here so that we might somehow feel both righteous indignation and intellectual superiority as we sit on the "A" deck of the Titantic watching the steerage passengers drowning and complain to each other about that terrible noise.
The ship is sinking bub and it aint that kitten with rolex that's doing the navigation.
How are we supposed to buy the food stamp participation dip when there never is one?
Come on man! It's Cramerica... buy high, sell higher!
Onward to join the USSR in Communism.
work under the table, let the government put the food on the table. Win/Win and just for a bonus speed up the day this whole thing crumbles.
Party on Wayne, Party on garth.....
How many of these numbers are also working part time at Walmart?
given that part of the WalMart benefits package includes information on where to claim city/state "supplementals," quite a few I'd imagine.
http://www.walmartmovie.com/facts.php
You have to admit it's a slick operation. Dips completely eliminated after 12.30 again. Facts don't matter , buy the dips. Not one prediction on this website ever comes to pass. buy buy buy.
The idea of foodstamps doesn't bother me in the least. The social contract demands it. If we who are joined here together have a problem with that, I invite you to see what I see. I see one third of the working population. How is it that, in the richest country in the world (ahem), a segment equal to nearly one third of our working population cannot even afford to eat?
The U.S. is our house. We live and work together for the benefit of ourselves and its continuation as a strong and healthy nation where we all want to be. These foodstamp recipients - and everyone else like them - are the abused child chained up in the basement.
This is a failure, all right. I'm not sure I would blame it on politicians, though.
Shame on us.
What is this social contract of which you speak? I signed nothing? What did I agree to that entails the state to take my property and labor and reassign it to another? You likely have property, your computer for example, should not you give that up to help the collective? There are homeless people out there and you probably sit in a nice home or at work, how dare you! You should have at least 6 other fellow citizens not of blood relation in that home sharing your labors. After all we are all in this together and you having private property is anathema to the collective.
Speaking of what are you doing online, shouldn't you be working harder to support the collective? It's people like you that are why the Revolution failed. Perhaps the state should dispatch an enforcer to make sure you are more productive, a few years in the gulag might fix that laxidasical work attitude of yours.
We all all in it together, and your taking time to post here is draining precious value from our nation comrade!
/real comment
It is NEVER ok to steal from one at the barrel of a gun to give to another no matter the cause. Would it be ok for me to hold you up at gunpoint if I told you my family was starving? Or if I told you I needed more money for guns and bombs perhaps? So long as you accept the theft of one to give to another we will only get poorer and poorer and the social programs you so desperately want will get cut. The oligarchs always get theirs, and after the wealth is gone they will cut the poor masses they gave a taste to loose to fend for themselves.
My, aren't you full of yourself.
So, when are you going to go outside and fill in some potholes in the roads you drive on and scrape rust from some of the bridges you drive over?
Actually the roads where I live are wrecked, thanks for noticing. Totally getting my moneys worth there. So now you say I must do the work of the gov that I'm forced to pay for because they are to inefficient...we'll you got me there I almost can't argue with that. So since it's clearly ok in your book to rob and pillage, stolen from anyone yet today? After robbing them did you tell them how grateful they should be that you are there with your gun to protect them form other robbers? Bet they fell down and worshiped at your feet for being so good and heroic.
So in your world is there no private property? I'm sorry your couldn't have lived in the people's paradise. You really missed out, I hear the real reason the USSR fell was because everyone was to happy and it was to efficient. They felt sorry for the rest of the world for living so well so called it quits.
I can only assume you have given all your property to the state for the good of us all, so how are you online? Are you abusing state property and going to a dangerous blog? Hell why are you on here at all and not working for the common good? Isn't there a community farm you could be at right now? Others starve because you are to lazy to work! You make me sick! A decade at the gulag would fix your work ethic!
Frankly, as a tax paying American citizen, I'm thankful I can contribute in some small way to mitigate my concern that someone is skulking outside the local supermarket waiting to ambush me with their Glock 9 just to take my blueberry muffins. Yes, I believe that as a tax paying American citizen I may have to part with some minuscule portion of my hard earned honest dollars to better the society as a whole. I'm not sure Lloyd Blankfein, whose business model appears to border on the criminal and probably caused more economic damage than food stamp recipients, has the same charitable view.
35% to pay for someone else's cell phone? Not a very good bargain. Even God only asks for 10%.
http://www.savingtoinvest.com/2010/04/2010-and-2011-tax-brackets-new.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/15/technology/15cell.html
Well, up until 2002 being in the 30% tax bracket seemed equitable for living in this country. Now, not so much. But my tax contributions did not cause the housing bubble, the 2008 global financial collapse and resultant great recession. I cannot say, for sure, whether or not paying taxes motivated others into gangster/bankster behavior.
What a pleasant surprise!
Only 500 days left from the moment I wrote on marketwatch....:
"After the Swiss tax deal, could hedge fund investors be next?"
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/irs-could-target-hedge-fund-investors-n...
Lamer wrote:
"Actually, the situation with IRS and taxes is very simple:
1. No tax shall be higher than 10%. That is because 10% - is a share for CREATOR of this world (declared by Him personally 3200 years ago).
2. Any tax exceeding 10% leads to corruption and bribing.
3. Any tax over 10% leads to unnormal spending of govermental budget money.
4. The govermental system with tax over 10% leads to double hunting:
a). business and wealthy persons are hunting for avoiding tax ;
b). goverment (IRS) is hunting for tax avoidance
5. Efforts of that double hunting from both sides have nothing common with (a) business and/or (b)govermental functions."
.... and vuala, some "american comrades" have started to realise that (at least here, on ZH site)!
The gov cares a lot more about Lloyd then you, and it does not border on criminal, he uses state power to rob us. And if you love the state that's great! If you think that's a good deal then by all means party down. But what right does the state have to take from me by force property? Should not the state ask for me to contribute in exchange for services? Surly if I'm getting a good deal it wold be in my interest to pay for the services.
You miss the issue though. I'm saying all theft is wrong. You are saying sometimes theft is ok. If you willing want to give to the gov and feel it is a fair exchange, that's your business not mine. But when you advocate the government take from me, well then you are aiding a thief. And quite frankly the gov only gives out bennies to justify it's size. If they could they would give out no bennies and channel all wealth to Lloyd and the boys, which is in the pipe BTW. As you note they get more then the little guy anyway. So wouldn't it be better if we just cut the gov out and people like you who want to contribute can and Lloyd won't be able to jump in and steal your money and mine?
You speak abut community and helping each other and that's great. But how does having a huge superstate that gives out money to the ultra rich help that? You should be an enemy of the state for it's oppression on the little guy to glorify the ultra rich! But so long as support stat action and agree to it's robbery then robbery will continue, and you will not be pleased with the flow of stolen funds. One day the wealth will be drained out and guys like Lloyd will smile and fade away leaving poverty and ruin. Freedom and property rights makes wealth, theft leads only to greater poverty.
I think you missed my point. I dislike what Lloyd represents more than I dislike the existence of food stamps. I hold the former, aided by the government, culpable for the preponderance of people relying on the latter.
No I didn't. You think redistribution is fine if it goes to the poor. I'm saying redistribution is never ok, and it only preferably goes to the poor. In human history the oligarchy has ALWAYS profited from big government more then the masses, even back to Rome. Look at any example in history and it's always the same. The big guys in power use the rhetoric of "It's for __________" and they kick up a little towards it while robbing the rest. You can claim you can fix government but it's not possible. It will always decay and corrupt, politicians will always be bought off.
Accept the theft and accept Lloyd taking the property and laughing at his 10 course dinners about what schmucks we are. After all I don't know about you, but I don't have a check box that marks where my taxes go, do you?
But, if you are not paying taxes to support a civilization's public infrastructure, whether physical or social, you would be paying private entities rents, tolls, fees, premiums, tithes, inducements, or possibly, bribes. What makes you think such a system would be any better than what we now have -- corruption is a human perversion not an organizational affliction.
What is better, a willing voluntary exchange or a man with a gun pointing it at you and making decisions? If you love the gun that's fine. I only ask you not use the gun on me. I'm not asking you to change your life, I'm asking you not support me being robbed. Put the gun down, are we not civilized enough not to threaten each other with pain, and guns and death?
If I want roads then why not a toll system? If I want security what's wrong with hiring a private guard. On that note the cops have no requirement legally to protect you, look it up. A private security firm that did not protect it's customers would lose those customers. If I want a pension system then why not buy an annuity? The government does everything poorly. If I want food safety then why not pay to get a service that tells me what food companies have submitted to private food safety checks. Our military can't beat guys in caves.
Are you happy with anything efficiency wise the government is doing? But if you were a paying customer you would have the opportunity to opt out and put you money where you want it. If you gave to a charity and it kept 99% of the money and spent it on it's employees and cronies you likely would not contribute to that charity, but that is what we face with government. But worse, we cannot choose to not pay them, they extract it out of us.
The roads are crumbling. The cops are revenue generators, not protectors. SS is bankrupt. The FDA is a puppet of Big Agra and Monsanto. Government is not the answer, freedom and voluntary exchange is the answer. The government holds the monopoly of power and it's doing a piss poor job at everything it touches as far as services go.
Will it be perfect, hell no! People are people. But by giving these corrupt people the gun and having them set loose to rule us it is infinitely worse then these crooks having to compete with the people who are good and honest. If men were angels we wouldn't have need to worry about the power of government, but if men were angels we would need no government. Politicians of both sides do nothing but loot and pillage, would it not be better if these looters were forced to work like you and I? Would Stalin, or Mao, or Hitler, or Pol Pot been able to murder all those innocent people without the all powerful state? In a free society they would not be able to organize mass murder on that scale because they would not posses the only gun.
All I'm saying is give freedom a chance. We know what an all powerful state is capable of. The 20th century is a tale of the predations of the big government. Millions died, how many more millions need to die before peopel can see the light?
Presently, I am going to live with the assumption that our government might, by pure accident and in spite all corrupting influences, do one good thing with my tax dollars even as it destroys this country to enable those who demand more from life than me.
"A man's got to know his limitations."
Harry Callahan from Magnum Force.
Read about this man http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Kalinin
During the Stalinist purges people would write to him for aid. They could not believe what was happening. How many died asking why this was happening to them? One should not trust a child with a known pedophile, and the government has told us what they are. So what they will do will be no accident. I tell you now the social services will be cut before one banker suffers. If you can live with your taxes being used to bail out banks, pay for their lifestyle, and the global military machine, then good on you. Please remember you were warned, and don't fall for the next boondoggle.
They have the gun, they are using it. All I ask is you not support them using the gun on me, pay the man with the gun if you wish. That is your choice.
As long as you live here, work here, and use US currency, in what way are taxes NOT a "willing voluntary exchange"?
There's a reason your sort of rhetoric doesn't catch on in big numbers. Most folks, as poorly educated as they are, see right through it. The stench of victimhood is just too strong. If you actually believed in self-empowerment, you'd already have taken care of your grievance. You claim to want freedom but expect everyone else out there to make it happen.
Forget all that "in theory" shit and DIY. "Authority" is a state of mind. Make your own.
Ah and how easy is it to give up one citizenship? Did you know some places have over a year's waiting list? And during that year Uncle sugar keeps extracting. I do plan on leaving as soon as I'm able to, I see where this nation is heading and you won't like it unless you are in power right now.
As to taking care of it, what do you suggest? What would you do to stop the state short of opting out and leaving? I'm all ears.
I suppose you think it's moral to use force to take things and impose your will? Then is it moral when it's doe to you? Law of the jungle? If a thief breaks into your home and robs you at gunpoint did he have the right because you were not strong enough to stop his with your "Authority"?
I'm sure you are waiting for your man on a white horse, don't worry I'm sure he is polishing his spurs as we speak.
http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html
So leave? Somalia has little effective government at the present, and it appears that there won't be much for the forseeable future. Renounce citizenship in an overseas embassy and go.
If you don't have a reason to like the society you are in, you are certainly free to leave and renounce the social contract you were born into. Alternatives could include going to the Rockies and living there without any external aid, most of society would forget you, and you don't have to pay taxes if you are a dude just kind of wandering around in a nearly empty mountain range. You have options, just ones that don't afford you the same level of comfort that you possess currently. If you have the courage of your convictions you can do it.
Of course, that would mean doing something that requires more effor than whining on a blog.
That depicts quite well a quite common type by now: people who are disatisfied with their society because that society no longer allows the same level of entitlement as it used.
Most people you can read about are not against entitlements, they are against the situation of feeling less and less entitled.
We're obviously coming at this from totally irreconciliable positions. I almost wrote a bit more, but it's not worth it.
If you're not prepared to resist the tyranny you're complaining about, you're just another slave.
You're the only person you can ensure won't let you down. Once you realize this, you'll realize how to get what you want.
Are you serious? You pay all that shit already ON TOP of your state and federal taxes.
The reason we are fked is because even those enlightened enough to find ,read and comment on zerohedge dont fking get it. Good luck with the average main street R-tard.
If youre a middle class tax payer you are fked. Period.
+1. If I hold you at gunpoint and steal $20, then give the $20 to a homeless person to buy lunch with, does that excuse the robbery? Voting for the government to do exactly that to me is no different. It is theft plain and simple.
Nah. Is different. Lone gunman is just stealin, sort of an "honest" theft. He knows it, you knows it.
Gov taking from you is Democracy in action; them mobs dat hold majority *voted* to soak the rich, gleefully and legally. You know it's still theft, but the nebulous them remain clueless. 'Bout as low a form of theft as I can think of...
I stand corrected. Government theft is indeed worse.
That someone with the Glock is the police and he's taking those bluberry muffins because they might just be a threat to national security.
Tax dollars hard at work.
I'd give you a plus, but the government stole all mine. Nice! though...
Because people like you believe in theft of property from one poor person to support another poor person is a "good", while refusing to recognize this destructive process.
What's wrong? Lose at creating wealth today? Afraid someone is going to get a bigger slice of pie? Why aren't you happy to know your hard work is helping to feed someone today? Would you rather be toiling on a community farm or simply dropping a buck in a charity bucket?
Wow, what a way to miss my entire point!
Look, welfare is not a soak the rich program, but rather a way to soak the working class poor until they have no choice but to get on the government dole.
To paraphrase a famous line, if you want a picture of government aid, imagine a boot stamping on a human face— forever.
Not only are the poor targeted, but also the middle-class, as well as the faux upper-class.
Why? Because a sustainable independent society is unwanted competition to government, because then we wouldn't need their rule. What they want and desperately need is for us all to be dependent on their "aid," all of which is stolen from the very people receiving it.
Plain and simple, it is a massive fraud. And if you vote, then you support the idea behind it.
Even simpler (and without paraphrasing), "Thou Shall Not Steal."
Anyone who believes that a beneficial social system can be based upon theft is functionally incoherent. (and most likely "educated" in a government school)
Oh, and I didn't junk you either, as I prefer that everyone see exactly where society's ills originate, closed-minded collectivists.
Well put.
And the Oglicarchs are collectivests?
Absolutely. They collect herds of people in order to extract wealth from them, as it is easier than getting rich via hard work. Without collectivism, they wouldn't stand a chance.
So it is apparent that collective action is much more powerful than individual action. Less talented people (excusing the talent of being able to persuade large groups of people) end up with better results than an an individual acting agent.
Agree, disagree?
I'm with you. Lost my "career" work end of '08. Since then, could have been on unemployment and could now qualify for food stamps with my income of record but, I will NOT. It's how they keep tabs on a lot of people. While it's unfortunate that the local career path is do taxes Jan thru Apr 15th, wait tables thru summer, work temp for 1-800-Medicare starting in fall for their "spike" to be laid off just in time to go do taxes again - I'll do what it takes to avoid the dole. (and I can't possibly do the fucking medicare gig again so I'll have to get creative for the holidays) That said, I'm very thankful I don't have children.
I saw some great career suggestion road-signs in a major TX city a few weeks ago.
DRINK. DRIVE. GO TO JAIL.
At least it's practical advice for most folks.
A cousin of a friend's father is party member in China. He bought each of his children a million dollar home in the same neighborhood in Long Island. The son is happily unemployed non-citizen wealthy individual, collecting food stamps as well as participating in federal funded free diapers and formula for his baby.
Or maybe I just made that up..
So THAT'S why the economy's collapsing. And here I thought it was being hollowed out by fraudulent financial transactions and transfer of tax money to corporate thieves.
Thanks for the update.
I assume he brought the house with him from China, thereby eliminating all those local construction jobs.
I believe it's time to take to the streets and let these 43.3 million know benron burnokio says we're in a sustainable recovery!! Now get out of that gov cheese line and lower that unemployment rate!! gov goons looking for TSA workers with IQ's below underwear size!! bendover burnokio times '09 mansey of the year ought be taken out for a new rope factory tour and some western justice!! This is appalling! dead head fed goonzi's should be rankly ashamed of this figure! rat basturds would be if the vermin rat basturds had any conscience left in the dark black soliditified coal stone hard heart bankster/polico goons have!! Happy Near Year!
Well said
Perhaps FuMble erm...FEMA.. could turn those detenstion centers they have into work stations. Hire up some for the Dept. of Reicheland Insecurity to run them. They could build bombs and bullets for our glorious victories in the middle east...or dig holes for 4 hours a day and fill them again.
So with an average monthly benefit of $133/person, food stamps cost around $68B per year. So some kids can have a bowl of oatmeal in the morning.
Meanwhile, we spend a half Trillion a year on two pointless wars. And another couple Trillion/year to run a military complex monstrosity. And the gubmint just handed $5-10Trillion to the banksters (we'll probably never know the full amount).
Just trying to keep some perspective on the scale of this program.
There is no such thing as a "pointless" war. The vast sums of money spent to equip a global fighting force employ huge numbers of people. The military-industrial complex has a ravenous appetite. Sadly, there is not much chance that it will not be fed well by our tax dollars.
Don't forget that wars cost twice. Not only are they non-budgetary items that get supported by emergency money printing (which is inflationary), but the things the money gets spent on are often blown up, exploded or otherwise used to make various piles of rubble. So the money wasn't spent on a lasting good or tangible asset that will benefit society, like new power plants or water systems, it was spent on destruction and death. But it also still exists in the pockets of first tier recipients, and thus also begins the path of diluting the savings of our nation. That's not pointless, but I'm pretty sure I could just do without it.
If peeps really understood even just the true economic cost of wars, we wouldn't have any 'cause we're too cheap. Tightwads, unite against costly violence!
The kids may be eating oatmeal and MAc & Cheese with 10-year old Velveeta, but the parents are eating Chicarones & drinking Coronas. Watch other people at the checkstands - you will see.
Nope. The kids eat breakfast, lunch and, soon, dinner at school. Year round.
"43.2 million Americans decided to join in on this "wealth effect" they had been hearing so much about and buy Apple stock."
You can buy APPL with foodstamps! Is there a discount or something, like when I go to the guy outside the store and do a swap to buy beer?
United Soviets of America.
pitchforks bitchez
pitchforks or bread bitchez...
There I fixed it for you.
Apple, what kind of cheap honkey trailer trash are you? What kind of fools do you take us brothers for, with your silly white ass Apple shit?
The food stamps are going on Daimler-Benz, fool. Ever since they dumped that shitpile Chrysler that is. Nearly doubled the March lows already. Those cute Asians really do love their Mercs.
Can anyone get food stamps? (Really a debit card). I could save some cash and by some AAPL stock to help the economy. Maybe an iPad. Maybe another 100oz of silver.
Can someone point out the upside to driving tens of millions of poor people into actual HUNGER?
If we cut the entire program, and saved every penny, it wouldn't affect your tax rates one iota, but it sure would affect the behavior of a lot of people.
Yeah, that's what I figured. No one can even think of an upside. Just another excuse to vent.
Well I fuckin' hate rutabagas, goddammit. So there.
A lot of the survival blogs now read ZH. I see links all the time. One of my favorites is
http://www.survival-spot.com/survival-blog/
http://preparednessjunky.blogspot.com/ and use blog links from http://www.mungosaysbah.com/
http://www.survival-spot.com/survival-blog/how-to-navigate-by-the-sun/
Not to mention the Big Dog:
www.survivalblog.com
They mention ZH once a day or once every other day.
Put, You and I have done battle on the ZH field in the past. However your links to survival blog are most welcome. ( Love that blog) Will check out the others. yaby.
And you wonder why there is so much inflation in food prices.
Long on dehydrated water! And a bit o' AG.
From what I understand it's not so easy for just anyone to qualify for food stamps.
If you have any savings or investment accounts over $1000, in general it's hard to
qualify. So I doubt that people who are receiving food stamps are using the money
saved to invest very much. I know that was meant to be sarcasm, but just saying....
people receiving food stamps usually are really in need of the help.
No, if you have anything over $1000 or so in a bank account you won't qualify. Cash is king.
I know that there are people out there who are at their end and food stamps are needed. I know there are people who are ashamed to have to apply, who feel it's their duty to use them responsibly and stretch them as far they possibly can.
However, many people are gaming the system, cheerfully and guilt-free. The system does not work.
>there are people who are ashamed to have to apply
Why? The government has already stolen the money. AFAIK, it isn't a crime to steal from a thief.
I also liked the "en espanol" option. So sad.
If I mug someone and take their wallet so I can buy stuff with the stolen money, then I'm committing an immoral act of aggression.
But if the government gets involved and does the robbing for me, then it's OK.
I wonder what bank profits from the debit card transactions.
jpm