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A Former Cephalopod Explains The Transaction Tax
Pointless debate after pointless debate... Let the confusion end. It is very ironic and highly appropriate that a formerly tentacular Davy Jones, currently Bill Nighy, sets the record straight on the 0.05% transaction tax, which just like the AIG debacle, would "surely" lead to the obliteration of intelligent (and banker) life as we know it.
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I can't help but feel that Robin Hood taxes on banks are just asking for a small cut of the theft perpetrated by bankers. It's only going to make things worse by making the government even more of an accomplice in credit inflation.
Yep. Just like when the States started making money from the Tobacco Settlement Trust Funds. All of a sudden governments are in a position of claiming to want less of something, but really wanting more.
Exactly right, and I believe this is the first time I have ever seen this point made, unfortunately.
They don't have the balls to do anything about it, so they cut themselves in on the action instead.
It's the slow creep of the Fabian Society. Incremental control. A war of attrition that they have already won but are willing to continue playing because victory is never absolute with human beings.
The nitwits sitting at home don't even think about who pays for these ad-ver-tiz-ments, nor what percentage of a percentage of the collected amount actually reaches the lower-class dinner table after passing through the bureaucratic house of financial horrors.
i can't see the point in a system where crooks tax crooks.
it just encourages them to make more stupid decisions on our behalf.
Crook on Crook violence LOL
i got a better idea. end all government programs and departments and repeal all laws and regulations that are not directly involved in the protection of property rights.
What kind of organization has the power to do something like that?
How dare you the gov. will only finance good things -- like fighting global warming, and paying off favorite schemes that will get the government re-elected
Increasing the tax on anything ---- Is not the same as giving money back to the taxpayer --- because the tax goes to the government ---- and the government is not the people ---- because the words say --- government of the people by the people for the people
The words do not say government of the government by the government and for the government
I vote no. How about this for an idea: Let the banks and other businesses keep what they earn and let me keep what I earn. How about everybody keeping their hands off other people's wallets?
Mouser, Jay,
What if the government redefines what property is, and what is a right? And what is an earning?
Consider that the FED is considering converting 401k and IRAs to bonds to fund budget deficits. Got Gold? The government confiscated gold in 1933, and owners of gold lost 40% when it was all said and done. With the stroke of a pen, you re no longer an owner, and your earnings are redistributed to whomever lobbies the hardest.
To be fair, taxes are a necessary part of government. Its simply unfortunate that the government is on a self destructive binge of debt and redistribution corporate welfare recipients.
exactly - we do need to build a new road every once in a while and other publics works (in fact I find it fucked that many things that SHOULD be public aren't and any that should be private aren't either..
I'm all for a reset button and then let the people of each towns/cities decide on their own how they want to run things for themselves
Only those who gave up their gold lost. Most just hid it and said f the gov't. Just like they will now. Can't hide those 401k's tho.
But you can cash out your 401(k) before the government forces you to "invest" in treasuries "for your safety". Then you can use the money go buy gold. Call it your own personal 401(Au).
And pay tax on the entire amount as current year ordinary income?
Well, you better make sure you cash out now. While they pass new laws to steal your 401(k)/IRA monies they can also add admendments that say if you cash out in order to avoid the theft of your money by the government they can penalize you for your efforts. And, I'm beginning to believe this was their plan all along when they offered up these retirement plans. OK, so I'm a conspiracy nut.
What they, the government, don't understand is that they will also have to enact laws, like payroll taxes, that force you to fund your 401(k) or IRA because once they pull this heist most rational people will no longer be willing to fund their 401(k)'s and IRA's on a voluntary basis, unless of course it's only a minimal percentage of their retirement accounts.
Granted they can't steal it all at once since this would cause the equities market to collapse, so I suspect that like payroll taxes a certain percentage of new contributions in a 401(k)/IRA would have to be invested in this new government mandated treasury fund. Especially if you want any part of your IRA contribution to be eligible for a deduction on your taxes.
Obviously there will be people out there that think this is a wonderful idea, but I think they're a minority and they all voted for Obama or are current members of AARP. That's a small number of people right?
This legislation would be difficult to ram through, since it is theft, but what if their plan was never to actually make this law, but instead to float the rumors, and create a panic that would drive people to pull out their 401s and take the %35 tax hit.The whole purpose might be to drive you into the maul of the tax, since that would be much easier, and faster than actually creating this tax.
+22
My close friend called Charles Schwab to do just that, get their 401k out. You would not believe the BS thy made 'em go through, the almost lies about needing to keep the money with them, and then after one hour FINALLY the rep saying they can get their money... the rep strongly suggests they (Charles Schwab) keep 20% 'to help with taxes' when the time comes.
Remove ALL funds now ZH'ers!
wwrd
What Would Reagan Do
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i3tkAYU7yM&annotation_id=annotation_927670&feature=iv
wwrd
What Would Reagan Do
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i3tkAYU7yM&annotation_id=annotation_927670&feature=iv
Jay,
"How about everybody keep their hands of other people's wallets?"
Hmm... how about 4 men break into your house, shoot you in the face, bludgeon your wife and kids to a bloody pulp, take all your personal belongings and then torch the place?
Because historically speaking, that's the downside to increasing inequality. Your vision of a perfectly sustainable world in which everyone has freedom of ownership *does* inarguably lead to an increasing divide between those who have and those who have not.
And, while you may feel that there is a morally defensible and constitutionally protected 'fairness' in the freedom of ownership and in the supreme protection of private assets (and I am not taking sides on that issue, here) -- One must note that historically speaking, the bloodthirsty rabble tends to disagree. And the word 'bloodthirsty' is key to the prior sentence.
You might not want to share the wealth. But those who study history know that what the wealthy want, while usually paramount is occasionally made irrelevant by the angry masses. And it is on those occasions that the wealthy usually lose more than their shirts.
There is philosophy, and there is practicality. And there are times when that distinction is vital.
Classic liberal threats of union violence. Go fuck yourself. Bring it.
Don't make the horrible assumption that those with the least are the toughest. And, BTW, union members often times are now those with the most. They are socities new kings and queens, with deluxe bennies lasting a lifetime.
The problem is big guy that the wealthy won't be the only targets of this law. I for one am not wealthy but I am proud and very protective of my little nest egg(s). You lay your hands on my biggest one, and take it as your own, and you're going to come face to face with the second amendment.
I know the "crazy clinger" thinks he can take on the government. It's funny, but I don't think that at all. I know that I will lose in a confrontation, but I will take some thieves, and it's time to start calling them that, with me. I got one kid that I put in the ground six years ago, and a divorce, so I don't have much left, except for a nice 401k. You and the government have to ask yourselves how many of me there are out there.
The Banker giving us the middle finger, repeatedly, eh?
any one else notice it was filmed in dubai? check the buildings in the background.
I'm pretty sure that was Canary Wharf dude.
?
Clearly youve never been in London's financial district.
Not every big or fashionable building is found in Dubai.
So if Dubai doesn't repay their debts, do they all go to debtors prison?
Check out the huffpo comments on it to get the ol' blood pressure up.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/12/robin-hood-tax-campaigns_n_4604...
I love how the .05% isn't that much but look at how much money it brings in for feel good slush fund.
send in the Kraaken
Anybody heard of tax incidence? These people haven't. Does anyone believe that the **banks** will pay this tax??
You are quite correct in your belief that they will not pay one thin dime from their profits. As a corporation they will pass all costs on to their customers in the form of fees. Their lawyers and accountants will find all the necessary loopholes.
What we have to realize is that since raising taxes on peoples income has become a dirty word since the days of Ronald Reagan, our masters have to come up with new ways to steal money from our earnings.
And since the UN is tired of relying on handouts from its member countries, it too is looking for ways to tax people globally. So if you think the loonies in Washington are adept at stealing your hard earned dollars, wait until these kleptocrats are given leeway to impose its Imperial dictums upon your wallet.
+100
Hegelian manipulation in classic form. Action, Reaction, Solution.
More dead weight loss BS. And who do they think we are?! This is not going to matter in an inflationary economy, state run banks backed with gold/metals/commodities is the only hope.
Screw this tax stuff. For a site that bangs on endlessly about the lack of liquidity, this seems like the easiest possible way to drive the final nail in the coffin.
And then, if you're just going to rail on about "speculators," I guess ZH isn't coming from quite the place I thought it was.
How about this two-point plan:
1) No government subsidies for any business, corporation, or economic activity.
2) No Socialist-wet-dream taxes, fees, levies etc. to "soak the rich."
Before saying the government should do this or the government shoud do that, suggest you read "Shadow Elite".
No matter what you think government should or should not do about anything it might help to know who the real government is and how they don't give one good piss about you.
And while you're at it, review George Carlin's monologue on same.
LOL--this came out last week!
--Bill Nighy is an excellent actor and the whole effort is well--really laughable. Of course the Europeans take this kind of stuff very very seriously.
Say we tax away the liquidity in these markets and ignore the obvious fall out--do you really, really trust these political numbskulls (dopes) to "do the right" thing with the money? Huh?? Think about it...
I would wager that like most fees this will just get passed on to consumers in the form of higher charges and the like. We've been down this road before, all it's gotten us is poorer and higher fees. Why should this be any different?
I merely point to credit card legislation as a proxy for what will likely happen. It's the same mentality as those who think that increased taxes will generate a windfall, aint gonna happen.
100+
Government and Wallstreet are joined at the hip! A nice revelation from ZH is that Bernanke is the boss of us!
Math and greed are the boss of us so far.
Money for climate change, huh?
The Squid will love that!
http://thetaildoesnotwagthedog.blogspot.com/2009/08/goldman-sachs-and-gl...
Better idea ... tax the Government
Better idea yet, let's just auction off our congressional/senate seats and at the end of the year we can have a lottery for the Presidency. Hell that should go a log way towards deficit reduction.
They are doing that now. They're just using taxpayer money to do it.
And the Goldmanites are gerttin' NYC carry permits. Self-incrimination deluxe.
Eliminate 'money' and everyone is equal. That should work, right?
Have you heard about the new Obama-meal at McDonald's?
You order anything you want and the guy behind you has to pay.
(Sorry, couldn't resist this bad joke)
Kill this transaction tax. Re-impose Glass-Steagall and raise reserve limits to keep the bankers honest. Let investment banks fail if they over leverage bad bets.
Giving the government more taxes just feeds the beast. It never helps cover spending, they just feel like they can spend more if they have more income.
Want a revolution? Just try to steal people's IRA's and 410K's. I know they want to do it but I don't think they have the cojones.
+1000
ROTFLMAO
Unfortunately, they do have the cojones.
Not balls, oppurtunity. And Yes, they will take it. All of it. They need it. And you need your government.
Anyone go to vote NO on their website? "No"s only account for 10% of the sites voters. The whole purpose of the site is to sway public opinion, and so far your being outvoted... As silly as their site is, it would say something if a site set up to garner public support actually had the opposite effect.
This is beyond stupid. Who do these politicians think the end users are for all of those bonds, etc? Pension funds, endowments and the like. These kinds of taxes only make things more expensive and do little to solve the problem the pols are trying to attack. Crap like this happens when you take the possibility of failure off of the table. When the decision-makers in these banks, et al have their necks truly on the line then choices will be made with prudence and sound judgement. Politicians were asleep at the wheel ignoring oversight and allowing these institutions to operate unchecked. Ever increasing leverage and institutional managers have abdicated all responsibility regarding fiduciary responsibility and obligation. There's been no call for their heads to roll.
While I realize economics and economic history aren't necessarily the strong points of some of the individuals at this site, please correct me if I'm wrong, but,
Didn't the Revenue Act of 1914 establish a Financial Transaction Tax which lasted until 1966, and which was doubled during the Great Depression?
Seems logical to reinstate Glass-Steagall and that FTT.
look at the income tax rate of the rich, the corportate tax rates and financial taxes plus the heavy regulation on the banking and financial sector for late 30s til 70s...and then look at the economic performance in US in from the 40s-end of hte 60s...if you proposed similar regualtion and taxing that was that started at the end of the depression and lasted throught the biggest economic boom times of the US you'd hear people say now the such things would kill prosperity...but didn't we have this crash precisely 10 years after things we derugulated the most and within 8 years of w's tax cut for rich and wheb most ibg corps were paying almost no taxes due to variou loop holes, if lesst yaxes of rich and less regualtion was the solution, that is proven false by last few years, if more taxes and more regulation was the problem, that was disporven by the 50, 60s ecomic boom where a guy with HS education could get a job, easilty buy a house and single-handedly raise a family of four...not any more, even tho when have the holy grail of deregulation and lower taxes on rich...failed expirement.
what a circle jerk - they let the banks take back taxes they paid in past years and then the Kabuki about Transaction Taxes. This is beyond absurd....
Any tax that yields a hundred billion pounds from a single industry is neither tiny nor immaterial.
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