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Former OMB Director Debunks The Economic Recovery Myth

Tyler Durden's picture





 

There is propaganda, and there are facts. For anyone seeking just one concise, definitive and completely true (as in fact-, not hope- based) explanation of what has happened to the American economy in the past 2 years, we suggest this presentation by former OMB director David Stockman, whose 10 minute appearance on the CNBC's strategy session left the hosts with absolutely nothing to retort. Among his observations: the government sector for the first time in history is shrinking: "the reason is that governments are broke... we are going to have to cut back government employment." And it gets scarier: "if you take core government plus the middle class economy (65 million jobs), that's the breadwinning economy, if we take some numbers - how many jobs in the "core economy" in November - zero; how many jobs since last December: net zero; how many jobs since the bottom of the recession in June 2009: still a million behind from when the recession ended." As to whether the economy can grow without employment growth: "I can't imagine how it can because employment growth generates income growth which is the basis for spending and saving ultimately and we are not getting income growth out of the middle class." And the stunner: the job "growth" has come almost exclusively from the part-time economy (two-thirds). Why is this a major problem: "there is 35 million jobs in that sector, with an average wage of $20,000 a year: that is not a breadwinning job, you can't support a family on that, you can't save on that. Those jobs will not generate income that will become self-feeding into spending." As for the biggest condemnation, it is reserved to what Zero Hedge has been claiming for two years now is a completely broken market: "I can't explain the market... I don't know what it is pricing today, I don't think the market discounts anything anymore, it is purely a daytraders' market that is trading off the Fed, trading off the headlines. One day it is manic, the next day it is depressive, and we can't draw any conclusions." And scene.

Must watch:

 


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Sat, 12/04/2010 - 16:09 | Link to Comment unky
unky's picture

Can support a family on $10,000 already if neccessary

But thats not the point, the more the better of course...

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 16:23 | Link to Comment WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

In Mongolia or Bolivia.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 17:06 | Link to Comment scatterbrains
scatterbrains's picture

I'm thinking about starting up a trailer park reit or pop up camper reit. Fill that 20k a year nich that's growing. Maybe offer check cashing in exchange for my Wally coins exchangable at my Wallymart.

 

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 17:12 | Link to Comment Kali
Kali's picture

good idea, i'm in! ;)

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 18:25 | Link to Comment delacroix
delacroix's picture

lots of unused rv's, will be getting some use, in the future. building an rv park, would be serving an expanding need. easy to move, cheap to insure, and most are owned outright. energy effecient too. thinking of buying a toybox 5th wheel myself.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 22:56 | Link to Comment aerojet
aerojet's picture

Um, no.  The cost of upkeep on RVs is insane.  They are not cheap to operate and they don't do well in the cold.

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 06:39 | Link to Comment revenue_anticip...
revenue_anticipation_believer's picture

STOCKMAN, DAVID Office of OMB liar with photographic memory when he was 1981 backing up the Reagan Revolution...

thereafter, based on his Harvard Divinity Degree, and National Recognition factor, he was set for life with civilian jobs, ALL of which he fucked-up...finally 2007 being charged with malefeasance into bankrupcy and destruction of 15,000 jobs of the company he lead, incompetently...

observe his shoulder shrugging, i dont know, 'buy gold..'forgive him, for he knew not what he did in 1981, nor took any responsibily for his running his company into bankrupty 2007...

Oh, yes, i remember HIM the whiz kid, brought to the woodhed because he'd flubbed his lines, and TALKED without vetting first..to very very wrongest National Magazine he could not have chosen worse...a naive child (i was happy, so i knew what cards were being dealt in the 'supply side' party line OMB story..).

early 'genius' thereafter a complete 'less than zero'

Even CNBC personnel dared not agree nor contradict him..seeing that they were dealing with an empty husk, repeating empty things without depth, knowledge, concept...pure literal minded Bible thumper asshole..

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 12:53 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

The reds may have junked you, but there's no getting away from his most telling line in the interview: "I don't have a prescription for this" [how to get out of the jobless rut]. He's a fucking moron if he has no idea how to rebuild an economy that has moved all its manufacturing and technology offshore while doubling the size of government employment (much more than doubled if you factor in the salary differential to the private sector).

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 13:31 | Link to Comment Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

At one point in the video, he states that the massive loss of well paid jobs was due to the gutting of our manufacturing sector through offshoring. That implies that his answer would be to try to restore them which he also states in the video when he mentions restoring our competitiveness. However, he has no prescription on _how_ to to this.

He may have a lousy track record and be one of the idiots responsible for where we are right now, but that doesn't mean that he can't now properly see the real reasons why were are in the position we are now in and how we will not come out of it without huge numbers of well paid jobs that are simply not on the horizon.

Mon, 12/06/2010 - 13:05 | Link to Comment jmc8888
jmc8888's picture

I guess the whiz kid has never heard of tariffs.

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 13:33 | Link to Comment jakethesnake76
jakethesnake76's picture

Sounds personal there Bro lol , he should have defended the idea of bringing our Jobs back from over seas my friend use to joke that we would eventually all sit around and shine eachothers shoes and thats about what it's come to now :( ya its niece to get cheaper JUNK from wally world made in china but i'd rather buy the same thing from my neighbor and both of us have a good paying job. we been going the wrong direction on this fo along time.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 19:55 | Link to Comment jimijon
jimijon's picture

If you're serious I can make an App for that!

 

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 00:51 | Link to Comment Occams Aftershave
Occams Aftershave's picture

Done:   buy SUI

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 20:47 | Link to Comment rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

....IMHO, a more upscale type of pawnshop, one that has a shopping mall presence could become the new "category killer"...

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 22:47 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

http://www.osawatch.com/2007/02/can_you_live_on.html

Can You Live On $12,000 Per Year? 20 Tips Towards Frugality

Time was when you could actually work a minimum wage job full-time and get by. Two jobs, and you could raise a family. Nowadays, it's nearly impossible, but some people seem to be making an attempt at living under the median line. The movie The Pursuit of Happyness is an example of what persistence can do to move you from having nearly nothing towards being such a success that someone makes a film about you.

I'm not sure if someone will make a movie about Donna Freedman, but people are writing about her decision to intentionally live on $12,000 per year. She seems to be not only coping but in control. Is it really possible? As someone who did it on about $10,000 a few years ago, for about 3 years, I'd say it was possible then, and still might be so today, but only in some cities. You'd have to give up anything that wasn't absolutely essential. It's not necessarily enjoyable, to be honest, but if you eat properly, you can at least maintain your health.

Here are some tips, if you find yourself in a similar position or just want to save money for a trip or investment or what have you.

  1. Immerse yourself in frugal-mindedness.
    Screw people who call you cheap (you know who you are). This is the only way to cope. If you can't achieve this state of mind, forget about living on the cheap.
  2. Mend clothes and reuse, or wear layers.
    At home, I wear longjohns/ thermal underwear with ripped jeans. Why not? The pants are still wearable and no one is going to see me except family and the dogs and cats. The #1 rule of frugality: use what you have for as long as possible.
  3. Be a coupon clipper.
    Master the art of coupon clipping, but only save coupons for items you actually use. Don't start buying something different just to "save" money. If you can't find the regular weekly flyer, ask a store/ supermarket clerk, as there's usually a stack on hand somewhere. Rule #2: save whever you can, but only buy what you need.
  4. Buy only on sale and double up.
    I used to buy quality oxford shoe knockoffs at $32 apiece when department stores sold pretty much the same for $50-90. I would buy 3-5 pair and alternate their use. They'd last years like that because they had time to breathe after a day of use. Had I not, I probably would have had to buy 6-7 or more in the same time. It's a small savings, but it does add up when you're on a budget.
  5. Give up meat or reduce quantities.
    I'm not proselytizing on being a vegetarian (I used to be one, but am not currently). Meat protein is generally more expensive than vegetable protein. Though you'll have to learn some new recipes. The two most suitable cuisines are East Indian and Chinese, and combinations inbetween. Food and rent are likely your two biggest expenditures. When you're budgeting $12,000/yr, obviously every dollar counts.
  6. Buy from the farmer's market.
    I've been to big ones and small ones and they always have prices to beat supermarkets. Sometimes, at the end of the business day, vendors will take offers on what's left. Freeze any portion you don't need. I also find some Asian markets to be very affordable. I lived in an area where there was a new Farmer's Market 30 feet from an Asian market. Every Saturday morning, I'd take my Friday night tips and buy all my groceries for the week, then make dishes that would last a few days and thus reduce the cost per meal (as well as prep time).
  7. Go to the food bank.
    Or if that troubles you, if you have a weekday where you can help out, volunteer in a soul/soup kitchen. You can do some good and a get a free meal at the same time. Some soul kitchens are also food banks, and you could take a few canned or dry goods at the end of your volunteer shift.
  8. Share a dwelling.
    Sometimes, that's not an option, but if you can sub-lease part of your living space, you could save close to half your rent. It's either share, or live in an infested place in some cities. Or move in with a family member. I prefer living on my own, so I had given up my cable TV and cell phone for a while. I didn't need them, and the Employent Centre down the street offered free voice mail and 1 hour of Internet access daily. Now, of course, I must have my Internet.
  9. Make it yourself.
    Need a bookshelf? Many hardware/ lumber stores have scraps that they will not only cut to your measurements but also deliver to your home. You just need a measuring tape, some good nails, glue, a hammer, and maybe a few small clamps. At the least, hammer, nails and tape. You can also by perfboard kits for shelving which are easy to put together. Not as fashionable, but you're being frugal.
  10. Haggle.
    In some countries, it's expected. Not so much in the USA, but you can sometimes get away with it. The worse that can happen is that the seller will say "no". They might also look at you funny. See tip #1. Haggling for smaller prices works at flea markets and garage sales. You develop a sense for where you can haggle.
  11. Go to flea markets.
    You can find a lot of "gently used" items in great condition at large flea markets. Beg a friend to drive you and go early. If you also find some bargains that you can fix up, it's worth it. (You could even fix and resell.)
  12. Use VoIP.
    Why pay for long distance when you can make some calls either for free or for a lot less than with your regular phone company? If you have access to a computer and the Internet, some options to explore are Skype, SightSpeed, Jajah, and Gizmo Project/ GizmoCall. Some of these only require a computer to register; you can use a regular telephone after that.
  13. Watch TV online.
    Can't afford/ don't want to buy both a TV and computer? Depending on where you live, you might be able to watch most of your fave TV shows online. There's also free IPTV (Internet TV) software like Joost and Babelgum, which are not yet available to the general public, but will be.
  14. Take free courses.
    Donna Freedman mentioned that she chose her current situation and went back to school. But why pay for courses when they're free at the Open Courseware Consortium and at various universities.
  15. Double up on laundry.
    Buy a few extra items of clothes (on sale or at bargain stores of course) and take longer between laundry sessions. Remember, every dollar counts.
  16. Get the most for your money.
    This weblog IS about online savings accounts, so I always include such a recommendation. It may be unlikely that you are saving much at your income level, but if you've become frugal-minded, you might find you can squirrel away 5% into an online savings account. Removing it from easy access means you're less likely to spend it. Remember: compound interest!

Of course, these tips haven't taken into account that you might have a dependant, in which case you might want to budget some life insurance. Now just because you are getting by on a budget doesn't mean you can't earn some extra money once in a while. Here are a few ways to earn a bit extra that are ideal for a frugal mind:

  1. Make it yourself and sell it.
    One artist I knew would bang together special tray-like art frames with 1x4" pieces of used wood and make "found art" with various objects and glue. I doubt she spent much money on them, and her pieces were between $150-350 each. She was very good at what she did, employing a skill similar to scrapbooking. She did sell a few pieces per year, after local cafes displayed her work. Making found art is also considered a therapeutic activity.
  2. Start a blog.
    If you have reasonably good communication skills and access to the Internet, consider starting a weblog. Be somewhat focused. By doing so, once your site has been established sufficiently, you may qualify for services such as PayPerPost, ReviewMe , SponsoredReviews or LoudLaunch to get paid for reviewing an advertiser's product or service. A frugal-minded person is often an ideal candidate for writing consumer reviews. Some people are earning as much as $1,000/month with such opportunities, though most people probably don't. Your blog could even be a pf (personal finance) blog and you could slap on some Google AdSense or Chitika ads for possible future revenue.
  3. Be an online tutor/ advisor/ personal coach.
    Sites like Tutors Without Limits offer a great framework for earning a bit extra by tutoring students around the world. You set up your profile on their site and use the free Skype VoIP software to hold audio/ video tutorial sessions with one or more students. Payment is with PayPal, though not all countries are represented yet. A similar service is through Bitwine, which is an addon (plugin) for Skype, though it's not just for tutoring. If you don't have regular access to a computer, you might consider Ether.
  4. Mystery shopper.
    Some stores hire people to shop and report back on the behavior of store clerks as well as scan for shoplifters. The frugal-minded shopper will likely enjoy this. I can't pretend to know where you start to find this sort of work, but I suggest you ask around at large department stores.
Sun, 12/05/2010 - 12:35 | Link to Comment harveywalbinger
harveywalbinger's picture

To fight the power, one must first understand what power is... 

http://www.csper.org/renaissance-20.html

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 14:39 | Link to Comment Popo
Popo's picture

Jesus dude. Quit hijacking the fucking post and learn some netiquette. Post a link. Post an excerpt. But what you do is just annoying.

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 15:00 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

WaterWings = Popo

 

Why do you need to post as two seperate people? Need to defend your weka intellect much?

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 22:49 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

http://www.ehow.com/how_2095733_live-10000-year.html

How to Live on $10,000 a Year By an eHow Contributor I want to do this! What's This?

Since the United States considers an income of $10,000 to be below the poverty line, living on this amount of money is both a serious reality and an incredible challenge. Use these money-saving methods to make a hard living a little easier. Read on to learn how to live on $10,000 a year.

Difficulty: Challenging Instructions
  1. 1

    Create a budget. Budgeting allows you to plan for the best and worst case scenarios. Not only will it help you feel organized and in control of your cash, but a budget will also minimize those panicky moments.

  2. 2

    Treat frugality as if it were a challenge. Life is not a game, but as humans, we tend to become more passionate about things when our competitive drive has been sparked. Think of coupons as bonus tokens and free entertainment events as scoring something for nothing. The grand prize to living on $10,000 a year is not much, but losing this challenge can mean serious consequences like debt and bankruptcy.

  3. 3

    Buy generic foods, eat at home, purchase cheap produce and forget about the meat. Changing your eating habits is an easy way to cut costs. Generic brands will run you several dollars cheaper than brand names. Save cash by eating at home. Buy produce from farmers' and Asian markets. Eat plenty of pasta. Save meat for special occasions. Food pantries also provide free food for people earning a low income.

  4. 4

    Live with others. Although this may be a major adjustment, cutting down your rent can make living on $10,000 easier. Consider living in a co-op (a home shared by a small community of people) or renting an apartment with three to four other people to cut housing costs.

  5. 5

    Be your own Martha Stewart. Save hard-earned cash by becoming a jack-of-all-trades handyman (or woman). Make your own furniture, or try to get by without it. Make your own clothes, or purchase inexpensive clothing at Goodwill outlets or garage sales. Ask yourself what is necessity and what is desire and then attempt to create those necessities in creative ways.

  6. 6

    Study your health care options. If your employer does not provide insurance, explore what your state may provide. Many states offer low-income health insurance; this is usually basic insurance at a much lower monthly cost. Ask your doctor or employer if your state has this option. Check your local yellow pages for free clinics or county hospitals. They often provide health care for people who are uninsured or need to pay on a sliding scale.

  7. 7

    Save money in a high-interest savings account. No matter your income, a small portion of every paycheck should go to savings. A standard amount is 10 percent, but this may vary based on what you can afford.

Tips & Warnings
  • Local newspapers and publications almost always provide a weekly calendar with a variety of activities, festivals, classes and entertainment. Scour your paper for free events, and you'll be surprised how much fun you can have without your wallet.
  • There is a government act called the Emergency Medical Treatment And Active Labor Act. Under this act, hospitals and emergency rooms cannot turn down patients who walk through their doors in a state of emergency. You can go to the hospital in an emergency situation, even if you can't afford health care. However, hospitals can discharge you immediately once the "emergency" has been stabilized. Be prepared for this.
  • Visit flea markets, farmers' markets and garage sales. This is a cheap form of entertainment and an even cheaper way to pick up some must-haves.
  • Ignore the brand name cleaning products and mix your own at home. Jugs of ammonia, bleach and white vinegar are always dirt cheap. (Whatever you do, don't mix those three together.)
  • You don't need to become a hermit to live frugally. Don't cut out all forms of entertainment in the name of saving money. For example, don't deprive yourself of the movie theater to save a buck. Head to the dollar theater instead. Decreased happiness and a lower quality of life won't help meet financial goals.
Sun, 12/05/2010 - 00:59 | Link to Comment WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Jeez, dude. Back to your hijacking with long, pasted posts.

Junk.

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 15:00 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

WaterWings = Popo

 

Why do you need to post as two seperate people? Need to defend your weka intellect much?

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 03:28 | Link to Comment merehuman
merehuman's picture

sleeping bag, spare change of clothes, piece of plastic for rain and one meal per day if lucky. more that 20 years of that when i was younger.

And no expectations. But it does bring one closer to the spirit, too bad it takes humbling and giving up to get there.

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 06:04 | Link to Comment the mad hatter
the mad hatter's picture

here's my howto guide for living on $10,000 a year:

1. Live in a cardboard box.

2. Educate yourself/get a skill.

3. Make money with said education/skill.

4. Upgrade your cardboard box to a double walled cardboard box.

5. rinse, repeat.

http://unconstitutional.blogspot.com

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 07:58 | Link to Comment snowball777
snowball777's picture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZTHM4H7Jb4

"YOU...can rule what's under the sun, if you get...your hands around a gun"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v0hk4FGTDU

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 12:04 | Link to Comment Kopfjager
Kopfjager's picture

Or just go into porn.  Don't worry about how you look--somebody will find you attractive.  

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 16:41 | Link to Comment Vergeltung
Vergeltung's picture

yeah, that's totally regionally dependant man.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 17:18 | Link to Comment Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

All the sheeple who had taken out loans.

Lets see I make $800 per week & my wife makes $1,200 per weeks. Lets go out and buy a 3,000 sq house, lets get a small boat, 2 cars, cable, lets go out every Friday night to Gibsons with our friends, hair & nails sweet !!! Lets take some money out of our house & go to St.Martin .... New car every 3-4 years.

Maybe we should invest in the stock market or buy some investment property. Lets take on some debt, keep up with the Joneses ... 24/7 over the last 25 years. Leverage city.

 

Total Stupidity, hold up the mirror America.

 

I turned off the tv a long time ago, came across the credit crisis while surfing the net, reading, got out of debt in 2003-4. This credit crisis started after the Nasdaq blew up ....

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 22:00 | Link to Comment mtomato2
mtomato2's picture

Fuque the junk-n-runners.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 22:40 | Link to Comment Crisismode
Crisismode's picture

Exactly WTF did you junkers find wrong with what this guy said.

 

What?

 

What?

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 03:32 | Link to Comment merehuman
merehuman's picture

must be alot of jealous folks junking you. Fuck them!

After refusing credit cards all these years i now have one for sears. Only a hundred bucks. i dont like owing . period

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 03:32 | Link to Comment merehuman
merehuman's picture

must be alot of jealous folks junking you. Fuck them!

After refusing credit cards all these years i now have one for sears. Only a hundred bucks. i dont like owing . period

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 17:09 | Link to Comment nate28jf
nate28jf's picture

BS.  My small 1 bedroom apartment is $630/month.  $630 x 12 is $7500 right there.  And I live somewhere where housing prices are pretty low.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 21:49 | Link to Comment Jasper M
Jasper M's picture

Nate,

Not trying to pick a fight, but you can get 1 1/2 bedrooms where I live (Eastern Tennessee,a bit outside of Knoxville) for c.$400 a month.

(And we have no state income tax) 

A LOT of metros are relatively cheap, and people get to thinking they are among the cheapest. But frequently not the case. 

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 22:16 | Link to Comment New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Go Vols- (well excempt for p. manning of course '-)

But Mayo--He the man!  Hell of a playa'

- Ned

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 03:42 | Link to Comment merehuman
merehuman's picture

there are 3 guys living behind the am/pm. Just make sure you find your sleep spot during daylight. Overlook it and keep walking, make sure no one noticed come back later with your bag. Never leave your bag! It will be gone.

Always ask permission before using others waterhoses. In some neighbor hoods even if you ask they call the police on you. Essentials to carry are toilet paper and a water jug.  Anything beyond that is a luxury.

been in business these last 20 years but never forgot the lessons the road taught and learned to appreciate the value in the crap life passed out.

Its easy to laugh now.

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 08:01 | Link to Comment snowball777
snowball777's picture

A lot of Metros are cheap...for a reason; specifically, when the jobs available in the local economy don't support higher rents.

But I'm sure it's awesome, if you want to compete with half of the people in Wal-Mart for the same minimum wage job and go nowhere in life.

Mon, 12/06/2010 - 13:15 | Link to Comment jmc8888
jmc8888's picture

A couple of places didn't go hogwild with the housing prices.  It is not repeatable for 300 million others.

 

Or we could all use a line like, 100 bucks lets you to live like a king in Haiti.  At some point, you have to live where you feel comfortable, and it has to be a situation that everyone can copy.

All this live on 10k crap is bullshit.  Sure you can.  But you don't have 80 hours a week trying to get the 'deals'.  Why play that little 'game'.  It's a bullshit one. Let's all jump through 10x as many hoops for the rest of our life.

Plus to live like that, you'd already need a paid off house, which most of the 300 million Americans, can't replicate.   300 million people can't buy generic foods, or else the price goes up.  Same thing with food banks, 300 million people, can't go to food banks.

Not everyone knows how to sew and do all sorts of handiwork around the house. Plumbing, roofing, car repairs, etc. 

Plus not one mention of anything extraneous.  Your wife goes to the hospital.  You get laid off.  I mean seriously, it's like these plans were written by an out of touch republican who thinks this plan will be enacted inside a vacuum.  It isn't. 

There are all sorts of ways, about 300 million of them, why living on 10k or 12k a year, ISN'T achievable. 

That's why you don't focus on bullshit monetary numbers, but PHYSCIAL economy. 

I bet a number of people read that it's possible, and said, ok it's possible, so why should the gov't give anything to these people, since it's possible to live on 10k a year.  Seriously.  People take this, and stretch it to their ideology, by the millions.  What fools.

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 01:51 | Link to Comment fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

My 3 bedroom house is 300 dollars a month. Unless you like wheat, corn, beans (soy), and live stock you would not like where I live.

No crime. No hate. But too many damn churches :)

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 08:07 | Link to Comment snowball777
snowball777's picture

Colorado?

And I'm guessing you have your own well and off-the-gridish setup?

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 17:15 | Link to Comment midtowng
midtowng's picture

If you live in a tent.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 17:31 | Link to Comment homersimpson
homersimpson's picture

Obviously this person doesn't live in the US - or he's absolutely full of...

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 17:34 | Link to Comment homegr0wn
homegr0wn's picture

Of course $10,000 can support a family! I absolutely agree. If the 10K is spread evenly into several piles, then a family of 3 or 4 could easily stand on the piles.

OH WAIT.. you're talking about another type of support. Oh, you're just stupid then.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 18:36 | Link to Comment Mark Medinnus
Mark Medinnus's picture

Thumbs up!

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 18:26 | Link to Comment 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture

Recovery summer was so good can't wait, for Autum austerity.... Where is Harry Wanger when you need em...

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 20:57 | Link to Comment Bill Lumbergh
Bill Lumbergh's picture

Unfortunately I do not believe he sees the bigger picture...a great analogy is a huge iceberg lurking below the surface with only a hint of ice showing from the vantage point of a boat...Harry is the captain shouting "Full steam ahead!".

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 18:32 | Link to Comment Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

$10K per month?

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 08:08 | Link to Comment snowball777
snowball777's picture

LOL

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 19:00 | Link to Comment hardcleareye
hardcleareye's picture

How many years ago was that?

You cannot support a family on $10,000 today without substantial government assistance.

Just the health care cost alone for a family exceeds $16,000.  With a high deductible plan, yearly cost is $5,600 and a net exposure of $11,200.

An Amish Family cannot make ends meet on $10,000 and that is living as simple as it gets!!! 

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 20:31 | Link to Comment Obnoxio
Obnoxio's picture

Yes minimum wage with government assistance equals more disposable income than a $60k /year earner.

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/entitlement-america-head-household-making-minimum-wage-has-more-disposable-income-family-mak

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 21:36 | Link to Comment McMia
McMia's picture

An Amish Family cannot make ends meet on $10,000 and that is living as simple as it gets!!!

 

Maybe not, but it wouldn't be too much of a shock to them if they had to. I'm glad I live around a lot of Amish people. And am learning from them.

I suspect the knowledge will come in very handy before too long.

 

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 22:43 | Link to Comment Crisismode
Crisismode's picture

The Amish are VERY smart at gaming the system.

And they have done it successfully (especially with farm subsidies) for many years.

 

They are not stupid at all.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 20:57 | Link to Comment malek
malek's picture

Seriously now, by living in a tent?

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 00:08 | Link to Comment Stock-Paper-Silver
Stock-Paper-Silver's picture
Sun, 12/05/2010 - 00:05 | Link to Comment Stock-Paper-Silver
Stock-Paper-Silver's picture

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 00:07 | Link to Comment Stock-Paper-Silver
Stock-Paper-Silver's picture

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 23:36 | Link to Comment Stock-Paper-Silver
Stock-Paper-Silver's picture

Come on people, it is possible if not probable to live on 10k/yr. Maybe the guy has no mortgage because he paid it off. Maybe his property taxes are low, say 2.5K a year, also possible, maybe less or even none! Maybe he burns wood or pellet, if he even lives in cold climate area ($700/yr for 6 chords). That leaves $566/month tax free for electric, a little gas, food, sundrys; CFL'S go a long way on the electric 1/5 the cost of hal/inc. Gas only needed to heat water, on demand unit saves a ton if you only use hot water for 2 minute showers. Aldi's, Wal Mart, Costco, Sams.... can do real cheap on the food if you're thrifty. It can be done... I am also ready to live on a similiar amount if need be. Hope to God it doesn't get there but buy the f'n gold 'n silver dips, insulate your crib bitch, stock up on the potatoe chips, and clean your guns and load the clips.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 23:38 | Link to Comment Stock-Paper-Silver
Stock-Paper-Silver's picture

Sorry about the reposts... f'n droid.

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 00:15 | Link to Comment FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Let's not call it "living" on $10k. Let's call it surviving. Making your own furniture and picking up cans on the side of the road is all bullshit. In a free economy we wouldn't have to be discussing this crap. $10k should and would be an entry level part time job for students or retirees. It angers me that we even have to contemplate this crap. Having said that, everyone should have or start making some sort of meltdown plan.

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 01:51 | Link to Comment Stock-Paper-Silver
Stock-Paper-Silver's picture

Agreed, absolutely ridiculous sane people are contemplating insane backup plans...

but look, some investor with long positions hedge their bets. Isn't that what food storage, ammo, PM's are? Believe me, I'm nowhwere near living on 10K, just positioned to make the flip on a dime (perferably a junk silver one ;) if or when necessary.

My point was only that it is possible... some here seemed incredulous to that fact.

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 09:36 | Link to Comment Revolution_star...
Revolution_starts_now's picture

"everyone should have or start making some sort of meltdown plan."

I said it before I will say it again. Buy chickens bitchez...

I am lucky I bought land with a creek and just built and stocked a lake. I was on the PM thing before most knew what it was. I got some, should have bought more, but I can't own enough( who can?). I was buying 10 oz silver bars below 10.

My point is all that is finite. If your on food stamps and they stop coming what do you do?

I figure, fish, chickens, a few hogs and garden. That's what my daddy's dad did and we always had a echo of jarred stewed tomato's growing up after that. Those in the south know the power of the pea.

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 15:42 | Link to Comment Stock-Paper-Silver
Stock-Paper-Silver's picture

My plans in no way encompasses chickens and hogs. May be an ordinance or two against that in my circumstances, LOL. But hey look Dude, your plan is just as valid. My plan needed to be a little more suburban but I think thats what's great about the American spirit... some of us still know how to ad lib to solve the immediate problem at hand! It is not possible in every circumstance unfortunately, but those that can should immediately.

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 13:35 | Link to Comment jakethesnake76
jakethesnake76's picture

Yep what he said :)

Mon, 12/06/2010 - 00:25 | Link to Comment malek
malek's picture

Sorry, but that explanation is ridiculous. If you assume the guy has his mortgage paid off, he has put close to $100,000 into a house if not more. Heck, maybe he also had a few $100k more to buy his own solar plant, battery storage, greenhouse, stable, whatever... then he could live for 1k/yr.

But you have to either assume a person has no savings, or -if he has- you have to take into account some cost of capital for his savings invested is durable goods.

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 07:59 | Link to Comment bobboberson
bobboberson's picture

Only with all those government handouts... If you recall the post earlier it's better to work one day a week than make $60,000 - but that doesn't work absent the government handouts.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 16:13 | Link to Comment Kali
Kali's picture

Saw this, was leaving my hotel room at the time and just had it on for noise and to watch the silver/gold prices.  It was interesting.  The CNBC cheerleaders could not retort anything logical.  What blew me away was when they asked Stockman how to invest for all this and he said "buy gold and silver".  Right after this segment, they aired a segment about "Apocalypse Investing", hedge funds that cater to "endoftheworld scenarios".  Wow.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 16:27 | Link to Comment mikla
mikla's picture

Weird.

I *do* find it quite interesting that there is no rebuttal for assertions and discussions like this (e.g., "trading on Goldilocks", 500 months before recovery, market pricing doesn't make sense).

With no response, the pundits merely "make a joke" and end the segment.  Weird.

They either have no brains (and don't know how to discuss the topic), or they are given guidance to not pursue such discussion.

Still weird.  No wonder I don't watch this stuff unless it's linked here.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 16:32 | Link to Comment Aristarchan
Aristarchan's picture

Another possibility is that like a lot of people, they are very uncomfortable, personally, accepting that their entire careers may have been based on a ponzi scheme...and that we may all be facing a very different reality than we have grown used to.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 16:42 | Link to Comment Vergeltung
Vergeltung's picture

that's sure what the anchor in the white shirt looked like. he looked physically uncomfortable during that segment!

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 16:48 | Link to Comment Aristarchan
Aristarchan's picture

What is recognized here (ZH) as reality, is a very difficult thing for a lot of folks to accept. This is understandable in a way...especially if you are a media player who benefits greatly from the existing system. It can be shocking....like suddenly finding out that Ronald Reagan was a practicing transvestite and a member of the Communists party.......:)

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 19:29 | Link to Comment London Banker
London Banker's picture

Worse yet, Reagan was a Democrat from 1932 to 1960.  In 1960 he sent a handwritten letter to Nixon supporting him against JFK, whom he described as a dangerous Marxist.  The letter was signed "Ronald Reagan, Democrats for Nixon".  He even suggested JFK might need to be eliminated . . .

http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2010/mar/30/charlie-crist/c...

Mondale released the letter in his campaign against Reagan in 1984.

http://www.nytimes.com/1984/10/27/us/invoking-democratic-heroes-gop-lure...

Strange, huh?

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 20:38 | Link to Comment Phineas Gage
Phineas Gage's picture

Are you the LB from the old Roubini days (circa 2005-2007)?  What are you up to these days?

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 21:48 | Link to Comment Sisyphus
Sisyphus's picture

Good to see you here LB, good to see you here!! I have been wondering where you had disappeared after posting a few times here. And that too eons ago.

@Phineas Gage. Yes, he is the same person. If I am not mistaken, based on his previous posts, he is currently working somewhere, which disallows him from blogging actively. He has, obviously, become a ZH lurker. I know a lot of old timers have. Read actively, but do not post.

 

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 22:20 | Link to Comment Phineas Gage
Phineas Gage's picture

Thanks.  Thought so.  I saw him pop up a couple times a while ago.  Good to see that a critical mass of knowledge is building.  C Whalen posting here is a prime example.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 23:12 | Link to Comment The LD
The LD's picture

Nice to see you around here LB. Your comments at the old Roubini blog contributed greatly to the opening of my eyes . Thanks.

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 10:30 | Link to Comment 11b40
11b40's picture

Greetings, LB.  Good to see more folk from the old Roubini blog.  I still cruise by there when I have extra time, but it is nothing like the old days.  I really miss some of those threads.  ZH is great, but it moves so fast compared to Roubini.  Variety and overall coverage is far superior, though.

Best...Independent Contractor

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 13:56 | Link to Comment Kayman
Kayman's picture

Worse than that- Reagan was a socialist in conservative clothing. 

He outspent the USSR through deficit spending, leading to Russia's ultimate collapse.

While I thought that was a very clever tactic, I now am wondering whether that was such a good idea now.

You wouldn't have Bin Larden running amok when there was another counterbalance to the American military.

I guess that falls under "be careful what you wish for".

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 18:27 | Link to Comment 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture

Reality sometimes sucks...

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 16:47 | Link to Comment Kali
Kali's picture

What disturbs me is this was even ALLOWED on the air by the MSM.  And then the Apocalypse Investing segment afterward.  The bells ringing in my head say they are  starting to condition people for TSHTF?  That is what scares me, that TSHTF is actually gonna go full Monty soon, they can't hide it anymore.

OT-my regular coin dealer has been very low on silver, gold not as much.  Stopped by a coin dealer on my work travel, out of town, just to look see.  Picked up some eagles at a good price, but my shock, was the good supply he had.  Will have to start checking this out more on my travels, especially in boonie areas.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 17:06 | Link to Comment meco1999
meco1999's picture

Or maybe CNBC is doing a "headfake" on the population again, i.e. getting them bearish when a huge bull move is actually coming. Kind of like they did this summer when they were trumpeting the "death cross" and Hindenburg Omen near the bottom of the market.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 17:10 | Link to Comment Kali
Kali's picture

Yes, maybe, the propaganda is so thick anymore, who knows?  Or, will it be true this time?  One of the primary purposes of propaganda is to keep people off kilter so they become afraid to act on anything, the herd takes direction easier then, right off the cliff.  Interesting and scary world we are living in.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 17:20 | Link to Comment Aristarchan
Aristarchan's picture

And a lot of what seems at first glance to be propoganda, may just be ignorance and the comfortable fallacy of intellectual inertia.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 17:27 | Link to Comment Kali
Kali's picture

Yes, but I don't like to limit myself, could be both!  : 0

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 04:06 | Link to Comment the mad hatter
the mad hatter's picture

yeah, get ready for a bullish move. oil, the commodity that has produced the smallest returns out of the complex, is poised for a breakout.

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 08:12 | Link to Comment snowball777
snowball777's picture

What an awesome way to cripple an already fragile economy!

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 17:14 | Link to Comment mikla
mikla's picture

What disturbs me is this was even ALLOWED on the air by the MSM.  <snip>,  The bells ringing in my head say they are  starting to condition people for TSHTF?

IMHO, yes, that's exactly consistent with the pattern.

The Bernank has telegraphed a number of "Congress has to help..." statements, we see PIMpCO's Gross statements on the coming reversion, numerous "senior" advisers and aides quitting their spots, open market operations aren't even hidden anymore, and Central Banks talk like they are about to go to war -- sometimes with their own nations.  In short, everybody is merely trying to establish cover for, "I told you so -- don't blame me."

Clearly, it *is* unraveling.  We only need a triggering event.  However, I agree with you that even the kool-aid drinking "insiders" are figuring out that, "the jig is up".

In fact, it's becomming commonplace for people to recognize and use that phrase in relation to world market activity.  The "silver run" is only going viral because it's gone mainstream that, "we're screwed", and more importantly, that the populace now realizes that it has been defrauded.

The MBS saga is almost a side-show, but IMHO it will be the precipitating event.  We only await a court decision or a State Attorney General to trigger worldwide derivative unwind.  (The other most likely triggering event is an EU country performing an open-and-overt default and Euro exodus.)

(Not to discount a *host* of other events, like war or a failed USA Treasury Auction, but IMHO MBS or EU are most likely, and either/both hit in 2011.)

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 17:20 | Link to Comment Kali
Kali's picture

yes, agreed, they have been telegraphing these messages more blatantly recently.  IMO, we are headed into the waterfall very soon, as I have said before, they are losing control and it will become obvious to everyone.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 17:45 | Link to Comment Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

How much of the gold/silver run is due to derivatives.

What's the true floor under all the paper ?


Back in 1994, after following what I called the derivative revolution throughout
the 1980s, I commented on this very issue. In my book1 I said…”what may
benefit an individual mining company does not necessarily augur well for the
market as a whole…. On occasions, producer hedging will not only influence
the price, but may even act as a major price determinant.”
There is general consensus now that derivatives have had a major impact on
the structure of the gold market and ergo, the behaviour in the price, in a way
that has not been seen in other commodities or financial instruments. Why
has the gold experience been unique? The explanation is due to a number of
factors. The market itself is very small relative to currencies, and any
structural change imposed on it had an exaggerated effect. But more
importantly, gold remains a contango market, exhibiting a positive carry.

 

This explanation begs the question: what is it about the gold market that
ensures a virtually permanent contango? The answer lies in the historical
purchases and holding of gold on the part of the central banks back in the
days of the gold standard. While pertinent when the Dollar and Sterling were
backed by gold, these holdings become less and less appropriate in modern
day financial management of reserves and currencies. The gold overhang,
held inertly, failed to accrue a return, and non-interest bearing assets no
longer have a place in current portfolio management theory.
Thus it turned out that, to earn its keep, these gold reserves were gradually
mobilised. The presence of this lending provided the liquidity necessary for
this existence and execution of price risk management products. Without
liquidity, the bullion dealing community would not have been able to execute
the transactions and hence they would have been render rather useless
unmarketable products. In short, the central banks as a source of this liquidity
became a key factor in evolution of the gold market.
Now none of this mobilisation of Official gold would have been encouraged if
there had not been a willing borrower of the metal on the other side of the
liquidity equation. Enter the mining companies, all greatly excited by the
1979/80 price rally to the magical $850 level, and hence flush with exploration
money.

 

The Impact of Derivatives on the Gold Market -
Jessica Cross

 

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 17:40 | Link to Comment B9K9
B9K9's picture

  even the kool-aid drinking "insiders" are figuring out that

I have always enjoyed your well thought out comments, but please, consider refraining from labeling any insider a 'kool-aid drinker'. There's not a banker, government 'representative' or paid MSM shill alive who hasn't always known what this exercise in societal denial has been about:

Kick the can until some technological miracle appeared to save our collective bacon by re-igniting growth sufficient to cover the Ponzi's accumulated debts. Sadly, for all of us, both victims and criminals alike, there is not going to be anything readily available that will drive net energy consumption (aka GDP) higher.

So here comes the payoff.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 18:02 | Link to Comment mikla
mikla's picture

I have always enjoyed your well thought out comments, but please, consider refraining from labeling any insider a 'kool-aid drinker'. There's not a banker, government 'representative' or paid MSM shill alive who hasn't always known what this exercise in societal denial has been about:

 

Kick the can until some technological miracle appeared to save our collective bacon by re-igniting growth sufficient to cover the Ponzi's accumulated debts.

You make a fair point.

However, I don't really have a feel for how many of those people actually *understand* the ponzi-nature of the monetary system and worldwide markets.  That concept doesn't fit on a bumper sticker, so it's too big for a lot of their brains, IMHO.  I really don't think many of the bobbleheads nor elected officials have "average" intelligence.  (Seriously -- I think they have personality defects and lower-than-average knowledge of facts and lower-than-average ability in critical thinking.)

Nonetheless, I'm certain you are correct -- many assume step (3) <insert technical marvel here> before step (4) Profit!  And, you're correct again that all incentives are for "kicking the can down the road" (e.g., don't think about, nor address, structural issues).

It is often a Human Tragedy to have a house fire -- to lose *everything*, from the baby pictures to Grandma's Clock.  However, if the whole family made it out of the building alive, there is something liberating about "starting fresh with nothing".

We all will enjoy that liberation.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 18:35 | Link to Comment B9K9
B9K9's picture

Humanity is no different, and operates on the same exact impulses, as those huge herds of wildebeest attempting to cross the Mara.

There never is a plan, other than to live another day and see what pops up. The operative term in the last sentence is "live another day". The criminals who are engineering the complete debasement of one of the greatest experiments in self-government justify their actions (at least to themselves) by rationalizing that they are enabling each of us to "live another day".

So tomorrow we wake up, and thankfully, the power is still on, fresh water flows, and the shit we just left in our toilets is mercifully flushed away. But what about the next day? What happens when the Ponzi can no longer be serviced? When the paper is revealed to be no different than Czarist bonds or Confederate notes?

That's what keeps bald Ben up at night. Where is the miracle? Will it get here in time? In retrospect, think how easy the Depression/WWII generation had it : the vast ME oil fields had yet to be tapped on a large-scale basis. It was all there, ready to fuel the growth dreams of a few generations lasting from the 50s to the 00s.

Where is the next "free" energy gift"? What, you mean there isn't another one? Then what are serious people doing about ensuring they get through the bottle neck?

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 20:02 | Link to Comment jimijon
jimijon's picture

It is clear that all will resolve by the end of 2012 at which point man will finally know he is not alone in this universe. Definitely a game changer.

In the meantime enjoy the math of an exponential curve about to come crashing down.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 21:41 | Link to Comment nuinut
nuinut's picture


However, if the whole family made it out of the building alive, there is something liberating about "starting fresh with nothing".

We all will enjoy that liberation.

All the more when we realize it was a house of horrors, and we thought it was normal.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 17:56 | Link to Comment Phineas Gage
Phineas Gage's picture

I couldn't agree more.  Just wrote the following responding to mikla on another thread:

"" However, they are idiots, and don't always follow your instructions."

This is true.  I would add that the problems are insolvable anyway.  Any "plan" is just hope disguised as an idea.  This is true of the politicians, Geithner, the Bernank - the whole lot.  I've read comments regarding some master plan.  There is none.  It's all postpone and hope.  Luck is the only thing that will save us."

 

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 20:32 | Link to Comment Don Birnam
Don Birnam's picture

Phineas, as an aside, your opinion on railroads in the context of an investment ?

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 20:49 | Link to Comment Phineas Gage
Phineas Gage's picture

One should tamp black powder carefully.

Not invested in railroads - understandably.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 21:34 | Link to Comment Don Birnam
Don Birnam's picture

+1

Very carefully indeed... ( Fascinating case study in neurology. )

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 22:39 | Link to Comment Scout Itout
Scout Itout's picture

My home town has 10000 miles of underground tunnels, shafts and addits. It was the largest copper mine in the world for a time and there were thousands of miners living there.

The most common thing to say on leaving after spending time together was "tap er light".

That was a reference to how dangerous it was when loading a drill hole with dynamite. Don't hit it too hard or you'd be wakin up on the "other side"

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 23:09 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

B9K9

"Kick the can until some technological miracle appeared to save our collective bacon by re-igniting growth sufficient to cover the Ponzi's accumulated debts. Sadly, for all of us, both victims and criminals alike, there is not going to be anything readily available that will drive net energy consumption (aka GDP) higher."

Ok, I have to disagree.

First the plan is to get every nation at roughly the same economic level. I think that was mentioned in None Dare Call It Conspiracy. The fact that TPTB needed to raise the standard of living in the rest of the world while lowering it in the US.

Almost there. That's why information is so open, no need to hide it anymore.

I'm fairly certain TPTB plan to switch everyone to a Digital economy. That those Carbon Credit exchange plans, like the one presently being tested in Australia, will replace competing currencies.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/green-ration-is-ludicrous/story-e6fr...

This was also suggested in the NZ tv series This is not my life. Interesting portrayal of the idyllic Green dream.

All those energy replacement realities and energy efficiency devices are being held until the time for the great change. 100 miles on an electric car makes it very hard to move from place to place covertly. Keeps you as a nice predictable stat.

TPTB has plans and the ability to implement them. They understand Jevon's Paradox and the Rebound Effect.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Jevons_paradox

http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com/2010/09/why-energy-efficiency-does-not...

They know those variables require tight control because of the problem with aging.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/10/11/think_again_global_agin...

Not enough young eventually to keep things afloat. But you can't outright ration. Create the need then sell the product.

In other words the shit is there but we ain't gonna see it until TPTB has a firm lock on our hearts and minds. In other words when they have us by the balls because our hearts and minds are sure to follow.

 

 

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 19:34 | Link to Comment Neo-zero
Neo-zero's picture

What disturbs me is this was even ALLOWED on the air by the MSM.  And then the Apocalypse Investing segment afterward.  The bells ringing in my head say they are  starting to condition people for TSHTF?  That is what scares me, that TSHTF is actually gonna go full Monty soon, they can't hide it anymore.

Perhaps we are all being set up.  If the PTB know the jig is going to be up soon anyway why not exit the position hard and yank us all up, make gazillion dollars on paper as the average small investor jumps into GLD/SLV with his life savings then yank the rug out of the paper market.  This pushes the spot up.  Which keeps us tin-foil hat Gold-bugs out of the coin shop.  So when the eventual dollar revaluation hits they can then sit on their pile and laugh at us while we spend 25 Obama-bucks for a loaf of bread! 

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 08:48 | Link to Comment Narcolepzzzzzz
Sun, 12/05/2010 - 11:45 | Link to Comment Crime of the Century
Crime of the Century's picture

So why are you at your kepboard instead of the coin shop? Any so called "gold bug" has already been many times. "Dollar cost averaging" as they say, works for the little guy too.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 18:58 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Even Cramer finally broke down and said "sell" and that "they're nuts, they're crazy".  But now he is back on the Wagon.

Kudos to David Faber for bringing the guest on his show, he knew what he was going to say beforehand because they had all the graphics prepared.

The other "real" anchors and hosts on CNBC, Dylan Ratigan and Charlie Gasparino were booted or had to get out before they were because they weren't market ponzi pumpers.

Larry Kudlow talks about "green shoots" and "mustard seeds" and "free market capitalism" so he can keep his job for the time being; I think he knows better.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 19:40 | Link to Comment cossack55
cossack55's picture

I don't think anyone who has ever worked for a propaganda unit much cares.  They spew their lies, then cash their checks.  Ever watch Mother Night?

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 23:14 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

cossack55

Fuck dude, dld the Aussie series The Hollowmen. Very eye opening comedy about how government works.

 

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 22:45 | Link to Comment Crisismode
Crisismode's picture

They are all following a script.

 

What the hell else do you think is happening?

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 23:51 | Link to Comment FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

It's because these guys are not any kind of intellectuals in the sense they are going to figure out the meaning of any of the data points they examine. They just fill air time with...hot air. Stockman and the guests are the ones you have to pay attention to. The hosts just provide quips and comic relief. They are airheads killing air time. You have read or find shows with more penetrating thought. I like the new Fox Business News because they have generally free market and liberty oriented people, fairly good guests and some analysis and advice. In the end, its up to you and me and the readers of blogs like this to decide what it all means.

From the interview, if you ask me, it agrees perfectly with much of what is said here at ZH, namely that the stock market is divorced from any kind of rationality or value investing. Day traders and maybe we would say robo-trading programs are trading on daily headlines. Unemployment goes up and the market goes up. Record numbers of people on food stamps and the market goes up. Stocks, bonds and precious metals all go up at the same time regardless of record deficits, debts and defaults. This makes sense to who???

The numbnuts on CNBC are definitely not going to connect any dots for us.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 18:13 | Link to Comment Temporalist
Temporalist's picture
News & the Doomsday Trade

Stockman - "Third we have the monetary policy that's borderline lunacy.  Never has anybody printed this much money at this rate and monetized 100% of the debt, week after week, month after month.  And finally we have a fiscal calamity coming down the road." 

"Now one of these day when the Fed takes its big fat POMO bid out of the bond market cause it's going to have to stop QE2 who's going to buy the 100 billion a month of bonds that we're putting out there?"

Gary Kaminsky - "If you're a viewer of the show and you don't have that capital that you could invest in one of these tail risk funds and you actually think...you are concerned; what do you do?  Essentially just hold cash?  Recognize that you've got a negative real return on that and not really care about it because you need to sortof insure your own capital somehow?

Stockman - "I think the issue going ahead is solvency...  Beyond that I would say own gold... It's a competitive race to the bottom to see who can print the most money."

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232/?video=1680960347&play=1

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 19:37 | Link to Comment ViewfromUnderth...
ViewfromUndertheBridge's picture

..."he said buy gold and silver"...I listened to both segments and all he said was buy gold. I like that, with 30% of my n/w in physical silver (bal. in gold) that the silver re-monetisation has hardly even begun. I see silver trading in the hundreds of dollars.

A light just went on in my head (no Phd)...Central Banks are expected to become net buyers of gold now...how/why will they pay for it ("at these elevated prices" I keep hearing)...why, with freshly printed money in the race to debase! They get their gold for free (fiat)...until they don't.

Good luck.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 23:07 | Link to Comment owensdrillin
owensdrillin's picture

The nice thing about silver is that it is a good holding regardless of what happens. Probably a good investment if everything blows up as it will be tradeable for half a cow etc. and is much easier than gold with the smaller values. It is also a good hedge if they keep the ball rolling and things do turn around as it will be used in solar panels, computers, and jewlery. 

Silver will trade at $75 one day, it's just a matter of next spring or three years from now.

Who the fuck knows. I just know I ain't buying no fucking RV unless gas goes to Venezuela prices. Plus I heard Sunnyvale just burnt down and that is the only trailer park I would live in. (Ricky will still take one 10oz. bar for one ozee of hash)

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 18:46 | Link to Comment Kali
Kali's picture

Yes, you are right, he only said buy Gold, my memory is not what it used to be.  I buy both and never pay more than half attention to anything on CNBS on the rare occasions I see it.  Jeez, what a bunch of analists here.  Point being that any push for PMs is the exact opposite of what you usually hear out of these fuckwads mouths. 

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 11:38 | Link to Comment Crime of the Century
Crime of the Century's picture

What blew me away was when they asked Stockman how to invest for all this and he said "buy gold and silver".  Right after this segment, they aired a segment about "Apocalypse Investing", hedge funds that cater to "endoftheworld scenarios".  Wow.

Actually he didn't include silver, but we know that silver should be a given for J6P. Here is the link to that segment to which you refer:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/40494047

(edit) I didn't see this was addressed yesterday because of the threading of the comments. London Bankers infrequent appearances tend to do that  :-)

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 16:19 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Stockman has been hauled in front of every TV camera that will give him time.

Wonder what the significance of this is? 

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 16:30 | Link to Comment carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture
Stockman's working on a book about the financial crisis.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 16:52 | Link to Comment Julia
Julia's picture

Is so simple you cute little racoon. He has a book coming out in the near future, you see. I found this on the internets:

In an interview, Stockman said the working title of the book is “The Triumph of Crony Capitalism” and that it will explore how crony capitalism reached a peak during the recent financial meltdown.

So not so hard for Colombian woman to figure out. Racoon claws must make hard for typing search. Book will be released in 2011. He get's his face out in public now, makes sense and people will want to buy book. Especially those who liked the Triumph of Politics--my father read this book to me every night at bedtime.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 16:59 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Nice boobs, Julia. 

I'm probably smart enough to know they're not really yours.

 

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 17:10 | Link to Comment I need more cowbell
I need more cowbell's picture

Pssh- her's don't jiggle

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 17:28 | Link to Comment Julia
Julia's picture

No, my darling little racoon--they belong to my man.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 19:12 | Link to Comment hardcleareye
hardcleareye's picture

Well said my dear!!!! 

My understanding is Rocky's favorite nipple was attached to a jar.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 20:12 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Can I get a flag as creepy here!!!

I really need a flag as creepy button.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 22:32 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Can I get a flag as creepy here!!!"

Done.

Personally...I like jiggly ;-)

 

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 23:16 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Julia

"No, my darling little racoon--they belong to my man."

A woman who knows her place. Are you a Mormon, maybe a witness?

 

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 04:17 | Link to Comment Julia
Julia's picture

We belong to eachother and therefore parts of me are his. His love, money, and the fact that he is a big man, belong to me.:) I don't care for small men--in the brain, the heart, and more. :)

As for your silly comment that I might be a Mormon, I laugh. The Mormons have invaded Colombia where I live. I don't see the difference between Scientology, Mormons, Muslims, Judaism, the Christian/Catholic Church, or any other organized religion.

All are based on crazy books. For me, in good times and bad, we all thank and pray to the same God, if we believe in one at all. Julia accepts each person as an individual. They can choose whatever book they like. I'm sure it will say the other books are wrong, but if we accept that fact, there would be no more religious wars. It's too bad people are soooo stupid.  

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 14:20 | Link to Comment Kayman
Kayman's picture

Nail on the head, Julia.

Religion, founded in superstition, continues to be the drug of the masses.

And most religious tribes shun outsiders- nonbelievers  must be inferior.  Only we have real power, because the Big Guy is on our side.

Everything, not yet known, can be attributed to the angry, big guy in the Sky.

It is all about power, nothing else.

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 15:06 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Julia

You are the one using slave mentallity terminology to describe your relationship. Everything you said is about ownership not sharing. You mentioned "money" immediately after "love",that says a LOT.

But you already understand your motivations.

 

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 15:44 | Link to Comment Julia
Julia's picture

At some point you will get that I am a caricature of a caricature that uses certain silly points to get out real points.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 17:01 | Link to Comment Kali
Kali's picture

Yes, makes sense, partially.  It wasn't just his interview I found interesting, after all, he has been a prominent player in the US.  It is that it was immediately followed by the Apocalypse segment.  It is very strange for the MSM to give that much exposure to the very ideas they are trying to suppress.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 18:18 | Link to Comment Bob
Bob's picture

He was on MSNBC, I think, last night talking about the insanity of extending the tax cuts. 

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 16:20 | Link to Comment Cistercian
Cistercian's picture

 Unreal....

 Thanks Tyler.

 

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 17:16 | Link to Comment B9K9
B9K9's picture

What puzzles me is the complete absence of grudging respect for what the power elite have been able to accomplish. I mean, talk about being collective bad sports about this whole matter. Is there to be no recognition, no admission that we were taken down by superior players?

Just consider the skill sets necessary to conceive, design & execute such a plan. And don't neglect to consider that all the parts had to be in place, otherwise they might have experienced systemic failure.

No, you sillies, not banking systemic failure, I mean plan execution. That is, if they were lacking even on piece, such a media control, or complete government corruption, or even the thoughtful misdirection in having troops safely off-shore, could they have pulled it off?

I, for one, am seriously considering welcoming our new insect overlords. Of course, knowing my luck, as soon as I side with Uncle Thug, the whole bottom will fall out on the Fed, and I'll be running for my life as the angry mob bays for blood. LOL

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 17:22 | Link to Comment Kali
Kali's picture

Oh, you whore you. ; )

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 23:27 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

B9K9

"What puzzles me is the complete absence of grudging respect for what the power elite have been able to accomplish."

People just don't see the plan. They don't understand just how little it takes to nudge events in whatever direction is chosen.

They still assume individuals have power, that governments have power, that todays policies are the result of merely random chance.

I bet you could lay out policy to any Sociopath and they would immediately understand it.

TPTB don't give a shit about your Gold or your Guns, if they need they will grind you into the ground. Your opionns are not even a minor impediment to them, not on the radar.

All Along The Watchtower lyrics

"There must be some way out of here" said the joker to the thief
"There's too much confusion", I can't get no relief
Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth
None of them along the line know what any of it is worth.

"No reason to get excited", the thief he kindly spoke
"There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke

But you and I, we've been through that, and this is not our fate
So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late".

All along the watchtower, princes kept the view
While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too.

Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl
Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl.

 

Street Hassle

Waltzing Matilda whipped out her wallet
Sexy boys smiled in dismay
She took out four twenties, 'cause she liked brown figures
Everybody screamed for a day
Oh, babe, I'm on fire and, you know that I admire your body
Why don't we slip away - hey
Although I'm sure you're certain, it's a rarity me flirtin'
She la la la this way - hey
Oh sha la la la la - sha la la la - hey
Baby, come on, let's slip away
Luscious and gorgeous, oh what a hunk of muscle
Call out the National Guard
She creamed in her jeans as he picked up her knees
From off of the formica topped board
And cascading slowly, he lifted her wholly and boldly
Out of this world
And despite people's derision proved to be more than diversion
Sha la la la la later on and then sha la la la la la
He entered her slowly and showed her where he was coming from
And then sha la la la la he made love to her gently
It was like she'd never ever come
And then sha la la la la when the sun rose and he made to leave
You know sha la la la la, sha la la la la
Neither one regretted a thing

Hey, that cunt's not breathing
I think she had too much of something or other
Hey, man, you know what I mean
I don't mean to scare you
But you're the one who came here
And you're the one who's gotta take her when you leave
I'm not being smart or trying to be pulling my part
And I'm not gonna wear my heart on my sleeve
But you know people get emotional
And sometimes they just don't act rational
They think they're just on TV - sha la la la, man

Why don't you just slip her away
You know. I'm glad that we met man
It was really nice talking
And I really wish there was a little more time to speak
But you know it could be a hassle
Trying to explain myself to a police officer
About how it was that your old lady got herself stiffed
And it's not like we could help
But there's nothing no one could do
And if there was, man, you know I would have been the first
Only, someone turns that blue
Well, it's a universal truth
And you just know: That bitch will never fuck again
By the way, that's really some bad shit
That you came to our place with
But you ought be more careful round the little girls
It's either the best or it's the worst
Since I don't have to choose, I guess I won't
And I know, This is no way to treat a guest
But why don't you grab your old lady by the feet
And just lay her out in the darkest street
And by morning, she's just another hit and run
You know, some people got no choice
And they can never even find a voice
To talk with that they can even call their own
So the first thing that they see
That allows them the right to be
Why, they follow it
You know, it's called bad luck

Believe me, that's just a lie
That's what she tells her friends
There's a real song, the real song
She won't even admit it to herself
Narrow heart, the song let's the people know
It's a painful song
It'll only say the truth
It lasts for sad songs
Twenty for wish
Wish it won't make it so a pretty kiss and a pretty face
Can't have it's way
There're tramps like us who were born to pay

Love has gone away
And there's no one here now
And there's nothing left to way
But, oh, how I miss him, baby
Oh, baby, come on and slip away
Come on, baby, why don't you slip away

Love has gone away
Took the rings of my fingers
And there's nothing left to say
But, oh how, oh how I need you, baby
Come on, baby, I need you baby
Oh, please don't slip away
I need your loving so bad, baby, please don't slip away

 

Dude I found this today, I think it's part of why we hate Iran

http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn12032010.html

Will this vivid record of imperial outreach in the early 21st century soon be forgotten? Not if some competent writer offers a readable and politically vivacious redaction. But a warning: in November 1979 Iranian students seized an entire archive of the State Department, the CIA and the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) at the American embassy in Tehran. Many papers that were shredded were laboriously reassembled.

These secrets concerned far more than Iran. The Tehran embassy, which served as a regional base for the CIA, held records involving secret operations in many countries, notably Israel, the Soviet Union, Turkey, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq and Afghanistan.

Beginning in 1982, the Iranians published some 60 volumes of these CIA reports and other US government documents from the Tehran archive, collectively entitled Documents From the US Espionage Den. As Edward Jay Epstein, a historian of US intelligence agencies, wrote years ago, "Without a doubt, these captured records represent the most extensive loss of secret data that any superpower has suffered since the end of the Second World War."

In fact the Tehran archive truly was a devastating blow to US national security. It contained vivid portraits of intelligence operations and techniques, the complicity of US journalists with US government agencies, the intricacies of oil diplomacy. The volumes are in some university libraries here. Are they read? By a handful of specialists. The inconvenient truths were swiftly buried – and perhaps the WikiLeaks files will soon be fade from memory  too, joining the inspiring historical archive of  intelligence coups of the left.)

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 00:57 | Link to Comment Occams Aftershave
Occams Aftershave's picture

We bow to our arsenic-based Mono Lake Bacteria Overlords

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 14:27 | Link to Comment Kayman
Kayman's picture

B9K9

All the pieces have been in place, hiding in plain sight, long before the PTB propagandists concocted preventing "Systemic Failure".

The translation into plain English is "saving my Bankster friends asses, by borrowing and printing unlimited amounts of money, and setting up  a long term payment plan for you, your children and your grand children."

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 16:20 | Link to Comment samsara
samsara's picture

This can't be right,  or, or Wang has been lying to us.

Where is Wanger?

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 16:22 | Link to Comment Vergeltung
Vergeltung's picture

he's "selling his wares" somewhere in Chicago I think.....

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 16:22 | Link to Comment Aristarchan
Aristarchan's picture

Very concise, clear and true. For years the US has been devolving into a service economy, that was in large part driven by wringing fees out of the very people who filled the low wage service jobs. It was destined to fail eventually anyway - because an alligator cannot eat its own tail forever, but the housing bust pulled the floor out from under it in a matter of months. Now we are looking at the stark reality of either trying to rebuild a dysfunctional system, or start over and build from a base of strength. Unfortunately, I think we all know the direction that is being taken.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 16:28 | Link to Comment Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

Squanderville is getting its margin call.

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 15:03 | Link to Comment banksterhater
banksterhater's picture

I can tell you first-hand, I went from $50/hr draftsman back to my old union grocery job after 20 yrs. Reinstated at $16/hr, worked back up to $19.00, then Albertsons had layoffs, closing stores. I went on union seniority list, they recalled some, asking them to take lower classification wages or else. They keep you on the list for only a year, then it's expired, so now I have to reapply to the company, despite 14 yrs(interrupted) there.

I expect they'll offer me entry level $8.90/hr now. All jobs are now $9.00 here in San Diego now. Skilled, like machinists are $15. That's tops.

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 15:25 | Link to Comment Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

I have a similar story as a "white collar" technology worker (bachelors and graduate degree).  Contract rates have dropped 40% and new jobs (which were very easy to find even 5 years ago) have dried up.  If you are fortunate enough to have the EXACT qualifications they are looking for, you may be able to garner a salary 20% below what you made 10 years ago.  But hey, at least I have a job (even though it is a temporary contract).  Meanwhile, Congress has lowered the H1-B foreign worker visa quota to 65k from 195k (even though Americans are barely able to find work). Welcome to the "new normal'!

btw: IMO, wage deflation is the anchor that will drag down all asset prices.  Until wages start to rise above pre-recession levels I will ignore the hyper-inflation shrills.

 

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 16:23 | Link to Comment Lndmvr
Lndmvr's picture

Had to downshift after blowing out my spine 4 years ago and put on a 5 lb. limit, Luckily the lawyers were sharp and I got some seed money. S&G underground for savings. I've got down to be able work 1 day a week to pay bills and more than that is kept under the covers for when that day isn't there. Slipping behind little by little but sure glad I don't have the $1300 interest only mortgage anymore. Surprising what hunkering down can do.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 16:27 | Link to Comment carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture
"The U.S. Is In A Race To The Fiscal Bottom" - DS
Sat, 12/04/2010 - 16:28 | Link to Comment EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

"Buy the dip".....

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 16:28 | Link to Comment RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

At the present time, gold is trading in lockstep with the SPX as a "risk asset".

Until that relationship changes, then stocks and gold are likely to trade in the same direction.

If Stockman is correct and thinks the stock market will crash reflecting poor fundamentals and mo-mo monkeys suddenly heading for the exit at the same time, then I expect that gold will get crushed as well.

So the Cosmic Joke may be that the "Apocalypse Investors" could also get wiped out in a risk asset market crash.

We will have to watch these links closely.

One clue I'm watching is how gold, oil, and, the SPY trade in foreign currencies.

So far, everything is in an uptrend with breakouts in many a high probability.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 16:50 | Link to Comment tickhound
tickhound's picture

Late '08 market crash... All fell in lockstep

Early '09 feb - march 9 continued market crash to new lows... Gold reversed.

Other than a short lived, yet powerful initial sell-off... I'm leaning "mo-mo" to a gold reversal in the face of a hammered spx and probable dollar "strength"

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 20:34 | Link to Comment Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Over 10 years market down, gold quadrupled. Nasdaq still down 50%. Gold has marched to its own drum for a decade. You're focusing on what happened in 1 week. Like correlating the cock's srowing to the sun coming up in the morning

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 22:35 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

+ 30 ounces.

Which could purchase a few companies in the NAZ if properly valued.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 22:46 | Link to Comment Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

Gold is now (will soon be) trading as the true safe-haven currency.  Silver too. 

Sun, 12/05/2010 - 00:22 | Link to Comment tickhound
tickhound's picture

I certainly understand this big picture... Was simply addressing the "shorter term" impact of market sell-offs.  And I was "focusing" on the "trade"... and not the longer term hedge against the ponzi.

I like the cute analogy... but Ray Charles can read the 10 year.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 17:02 | Link to Comment Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

[...then I expect that gold will get crushed as well.]---RobotTrader

I expect a gold sell-off too, but only a temporary one. Maybe severe, depending on solvency news coming from gold ETFs.  The gold sell-off will be coming from High Net worth investors who invested in paper gold to hedge a broad market downturn.  The HN investors will be using gains from gold to pay margin calls.

Following that, I expect gold will resume its skyward course.

 

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