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Founder Of Reaganomics Says That "Without A Revolution, Americans Are History"

Tyler Durden's picture


By Paul Craig Roberts, First Published at InfoWars

The Ecstasy of Empire

The United States is running out of time to get its
budget and trade deficits under control.  Despite the urgency of the
situation, 2010 has been wasted in hype about a non-existent
recovery. As recently as August 2 Treasury Secretary Timothy F.
Geithner penned a New York Times column, “Welcome to the Recovery.”

As John Williams (
has made clear on many occasions, an appearance of recovery was
created by over-counting employment and undercounting inflation.
Warnings by Williams, Gerald Celente, and myself have gone unheeded,
but our warnings recently had echoes from Boston University professor
Laurence Kotlikoff and from David Stockman, who excoriated the
Republican Party for becoming big-spending Democrats.

It is encouraging to see some realization that, this time,
Washington cannot spend the economy out of recession. The deficits are
already too large for the dollar to survive as reserve currency, and
deficit spending cannot put Americans back to work in jobs that have
been moved offshore. 

However, the solutions offered by those who are beginning to
recognize that there is a problem are discouraging. Kotlikoff thinks
the solution is savage Social Security and Medicare cuts or equally
savage tax increases or hyperinflation to destroy the vast debts. 

Perhaps economists lack imagination, or perhaps they don’t want to
be cut off from Wall Street and corporate subsidies, but Social
Security and Medicare are insufficient at their present levels,
especially considering the erosion of private pensions by the dot com,
derivative and real estate bubbles. Cuts in Social Security and
Medicare, for which people have paid 15 per cent of their earnings all
their lives, would result in starvation and deaths from curable

Tax increases make even less sense. It is widely acknowledged that
the majority of households cannot survive on one job. Both husband and
wife work and often one of the partners has two jobs in order to make
ends meet. Raising taxes makes it harder to make ends meet–thus more
foreclosures, more food stamps, more homelessness. What kind of
economist or humane person thinks this is a solution?

Ah, but we will tax the rich. The rich have enough money. They will simply stop earning.

Let’s get real.  Here is what the government is likely to do.  Once
 Washington realize that the dollar is at risk and that they can no
longer finance their wars by borrowing abroad, the government will
either levy a tax on private pensions on the grounds that the pensions
have accumulated tax-deferred, or the government will require pension
fund managers to purchase Treasury debt with our pensions. This will
buy the government a bit more time while pension accounts are loaded
up with worthless paper. 

The last Bush budget deficit (2008) was in the $400-500 billion
range, about the size of the Chinese, Japanese, and OPEC trade
surpluses with the US. Traditionally, these trade surpluses have been
recycled to the US and finance the federal budget deficit. In 2009 and
2010 the federal deficit jumped to $1,400 billion, a back-to-back
trillion dollar increase. There are not sufficient trade surpluses to
finance a deficit this large. From where comes the money?

The answer is from individuals fleeing the stock market into “safe”
Treasury bonds and from the bankster bailout, not so much the TARP
money as the Federal Reserve’s exchange of bank reserves for
questionable financial paper such as subprime derivatives. The banks
used their excess reserves to purchase Treasury debt.

These financing maneuvers are one-time tricks. Once people have
fled stocks, that movement into Treasuries is over. The opposition to
the bankster bailout likely precludes another. So where does the money
come from the next time?

The Treasury was able to unload a lot of debt thanks to “the Greek
crisis,” which the New York banksters and hedge funds multiplied into
“the euro crisis.” The financial press served as a financing arm for
the US Treasury by creating panic about European debt and the euro.
Central banks and individuals who had taken refuge from the dollar in
euros were panicked out of their euros, and they rushed into dollars
by purchasing US Treasury debt.

This movement from euros to dollars weakened the alternative
reserve currency to the dollar, halted the dollar’s decline, and
financed the US budget deficit a while longer.

Possibly the game can be replayed with Spanish debt, Irish debt,
and whatever unlucky country is eswept in by the thoughtless expansion
of the European Union.

But when no countries remain that can be destabilized by Wall
Street investment banksters and hedge funds, what then finances the US
budget deficit?

The only remaining financier is the Federal Reserve. When Treasury
bonds brought to auction do not sell, the Federal Reserve must
purchase them. The Federal Reserve purchases the bonds by creating new
demand deposits, or checking accounts, for the Treasury. As the
Treasury spends the proceeds of the new debt sales, the US money
supply expands by the amount of the Federal Reserve’s purchase of
Treasury debt.

Do goods and services expand by the same amount?  Imports will
increase as US jobs have been offshored and given to foreigners, thus
worsening the trade deficit.  When the Federal Reserve purchases the
Treasury’s new debt issues, the money supply will increase by more
than the supply of domestically produced goods and services. Prices
are likely to rise.

How high will they rise? The longer money is created in order that
government can pay its bills, the more likely hyperinflation will be
the result.

The economy has not recovered. By the end of this year it will be
obvious that the collapsing economy means a larger than $1.4 trillion
budget deficit to finance. Will it be $2 trillion? Higher? 

Whatever the size, the rest of the world will see that the dollar
is being printed in such quantities that it cannot serve as reserve
currency. At that point wholesale dumping of dollars will result as
foreign central banks try to unload a worthless currency. 

The collapse of the dollar will drive up the prices of imports and
offshored goods on which Americans are dependent. Wal-Mart shoppers
will think they have mistakenly gone into Neiman Marcus. 

Domestic prices will also explode as a growing money supply chases
the supply of goods and services still made in America by Americans.

The dollar as reserve currency cannot survive the conflagration.
When the dollar goes the US cannot finance its trade deficit.
Therefore, imports will fall sharply, thus adding to domestic
inflation and, as the US is energy import-dependent, there will be
transportation disruptions that will disrupt work and grocery store

Panic will be the order of the day.

Will farms will be raided? Will those trapped in cities resort to riots and looting?

Is this the likely future that “our” government and “our patriotic” corporations have created for us?

To borrow from Lenin, “What can be done?”

Here is what can be done. The wars, which benefit no one but the
military-security complex and Israel’s territorial expansion, can be
immediately ended. This would reduce the US budget deficit by hundreds
of billions of dollars per year.  More hundreds of billions of
dollars could be saved by cutting the rest of the military budget
which, in its present size, exceeds the budgets of all the serious
military powers on earth combined. 

US military spending reflects the unaffordable and unattainable
crazed neoconservative  goal of US Empire and world hegemony. What
fool in Washington thinks that China is going to finance US hegemony
over China? 

The only way that the US will again have an economy is by bringing
back the offshored jobs. The loss of these jobs impoverished Americans
while producing oversized gains for Wall Street, shareholders, and
corporate executives. These jobs can be brought home where they belong
by taxing corporations according to where value is added to their
product. If value is added to their goods and services in China,
corporations would have a high tax rate. If value is added to their
goods and services in the US, corporations would have a low tax rate.

This change in corporate taxation would offset the cheap foreign
labor that has sucked jobs out of America, and it would rebuild the
ladders of upward mobility that made America an opportunity society. 

If the wars are not immediately stopped and the jobs brought back to America, the US is relegated to the trash bin of history.

Obviously, the corporations and Wall Street would use their
financial power and campaign contributions to block any legislation
that would reduce short-term earnings and bonuses by bringing jobs
back to America. Americans have no greater enemies than Wall Street
and the corporations and their prostitutes in Congress and the White

The neocons allied with Israel, who control both parties and much of the media, are strung out on the ecstasy of Empire. 

The United States and the welfare of its 300 million people cannot
be restored unless the neocons, Wall Street, the corporations, and
their servile slaves in Congress and the White House can be defeated.

Without a revolution, Americans are history.

Dr. Paul Craig Roberts is the father of Reaganomics and the
former head of policy at the Department of Treasury. He is a columnist
and was previously the editor of the Wall Street Journal. His latest
book, “How the Economy Was Lost: The War of the Worlds,” details why America is disintegrating.


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Mon, 08/16/2010 - 18:39 | 524862 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

NIce to think the wars could be immediately ended by one side throwing in the towel.

Thanks for the efoods link that is at least useful.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 20:14 | 525050 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

As others point out below, the wars are occupations.  They can be ended tomorrow.  They are not making anybody any safer.


Mon, 08/16/2010 - 23:06 | 525343 HCSKnight
HCSKnight's picture

Right, we leave and the terrorists will stay over there and the oil wont be f'd with... oh yea, and  the Chinese will leave the African continent and the Koreans will make nice.

Do you really think those who want to attack the US have gotten less sophisticated or capable? 

But dont worry, we'll call Mr. Bringin It to get it on when the s hits the fan.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 00:35 | 525427 akak
akak's picture

Put down the neocon koolaid and step away from the FOX "news"!

The American wars of aggression and illegal and immoral occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan can and should be ended tomorrow.  The ONLY thing they are accomplishing is feeding war profiteers and furthering the wildly militaristic and warmongering US foreign policy of the last 60 years, which sees the world as America's playground and the world's people as pawns and playthings of the US war machine.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 11:44 | 526061 Geoff-UK
Geoff-UK's picture

You express concern for the oil supply which i agree with--but we're not getting paid off for being the OPEC Security Company.  In which case, we should stop providing free service.  And if asses need kicking at some point, we have an Air Force with plenty of bombs and bored off their ass pilots ready to go.

As for the bad guys bringing the fight to us?  Well, close all immigration, legal or otherwise, and stop international tourism into this country.  Island America for a while. 

Would all that make you happy?  Cuz it would certainly tighten MY pants...

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 05:14 | 525517 Hedge Jobs
Hedge Jobs's picture

Blah, blah, blah, we have heard it all before. Another great article but when are people going to stop writing and blogging about it and actually do something about the problem that is puposefully desrtoying America and enslaving its people? We all know what the problem is, its about time we do something about it. If you are not going do anything yourself then at least support someone who will.

David Duke has a plan and is worth supporting:

For your veiwing pleasure and also to prove that Duke has the testicular fortitude to take these scumbags on head to head, here is one of the best ever slap downs of a zionist traitor you are ever likely to see:

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 11:46 | 526066 Geoff-UK
Geoff-UK's picture


Tue, 08/17/2010 - 20:28 | 527330 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

The slap down of Wolf Blitzer is terrific and worth watching.  He talks about Zionist control of the media and Washington, the Zionist push behind the invasion of Iraq and intended attack on Iran.


Mon, 08/16/2010 - 22:01 | 525226 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

fuck off and ENLIST bugs, ya chickenshit chickenhawk.

Roberts NAILED the self-inflicted amerikan dilemma here

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 22:47 | 525306 Mad Mad Woman
Mad Mad Woman's picture

This "war" is not sustainable & is costing us way too much money. We must leave Iraq and Afghanistan ASAP. The economic and people cost is too much. This is a war that we cannot win.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 18:38 | 524863 egdeh orez
egdeh orez's picture

I didn't read the whole article yet, but I agree with the conclusion, "Without a revolution, Americans are history." completely

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:27 | 524963 Buzz Fuzzel
Buzz Fuzzel's picture

February 07, 2006

It is time for a Revolution

Marty Evans

Pork Barrel spending and political corruption are suddenly top topics of the day in Washington power circles and the national media. Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert recently defended pork spending saying “Who knows best where to put a bridge or a highway or a red light in their district”. He makes a very good point. It is intuitive that people in local districts know best where to spend their tax dollars, which raises an obvious question. Why is the United States Senate and House of Representatives involved in deciding these questions at all? Our real problem is that too few people are deciding what to do with too much money.

Why and how money corrupts politics are not particularly daunting questions. George Will nailed it in a recent editorial column. He says, “People serious about reducing the role of money in politics should be serious about reducing the role of politics in distributing money.”

In the present political reality our government, regardless of which party is in power, does not focus on what is right for the people but rather on what is right for the political class and their symbiotic partners the K Street lobbyists. Our money has made them all exceedingly powerful.

Two simple steps would solve this problem. First eliminate the system of seniority in Congress and the Senate. The operating rules of both legislative bodies allow some Senators and Congressmen to have inordinate power and influence over their colleagues. The result, we are no longer governed by good ideas and convincing arguments. We no longer have equal representation in our federal government.

When did you last hear media referring to a Junior Senator or Senior Congressmen? What does it mean to be a senior member of this committee or that? Our elected representatives should be co-equals. There should be no subordinates, no juniors or seniors among them. Their power should be determined by the quality of their arguments and their influence determined by the strength of their ideas. Secondly, and more importantly throw out the current federal tax code and start over with the Fair Tax.

Our federal tax code is a monstrous abomination used by the political class to manipulate and control every facet of our lives. It is the source of the power that corrupts. Everyone, including the poor, the rich, the middle class, corporations, unions, farmers and small businesses owners say the tax code is unfair to them. Unfortunately they are all correct. It is unfair to everyone except the political class.

Neal Boortz, co-author of “The Fair Tax Book” recently said “Passage of the FairTax would constitute the greatest transfer of power from government to the people since the Revolutionary War.” Legislation is pending in both houses of congress to make the Fair Tax the law of the land. Support for this idea comes from both political parties, from the liberal left and from the conservative right. Redistributionist social engineers and laissez faire capitalists have both found comfort in it. Virtually everyone who has taken the time to truly understand The Fair Tax supports it. It is a bold proposal which could succeed in solving our most daunting social, political and economic concerns. Unquestionably the biggest winners with the Fair Tax will be individual Americans, regardless of their socio-economic station, re-empowered to control their own lives.

Perhaps we the people still wield the power. Let’s see! Vote, speak out, contact your representatives and let our elected officials know the status quo is not good enough. Tell them we are ready for revolutionary change one way or the other.


Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:34 | 524976 Mitchman
Mitchman's picture

Excellent post.  Thank you.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:39 | 524989 Captain Archer
Captain Archer's picture

We need a Constitutional Convention. It's the only way out.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:56 | 525012 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

I disagree.  Allowing the current crop of crooks free reign to legislate the further rape, pillage, and plunder of the American people is unacceptable.  The scum that constitutes the political overclass of our day must be disposed of and replaced with individuals whose most sincere allegiance is to the Constitution and the ideals upon which our country was founded.  Only then would a Constitutional Convention appeal to me.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 22:13 | 525246 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture


Mon, 08/16/2010 - 22:49 | 525310 Mad Mad Woman
Mad Mad Woman's picture


Tue, 08/17/2010 - 08:03 | 525577 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Or, how about scrapping the Constitution and reinstating the Articles of Confederation, otherwise, we will be back in the same boat.  For immediate resolution, think NULLIFICATION.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 20:03 | 525024 weinerdog43
weinerdog43's picture

It's the only way out.

No it is not.  Read the article.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 20:40 | 525088 hungrydweller
hungrydweller's picture

Read up on the constitutional convention.  You DO NOT want this to happen.  Representatives to the convention will be chosen by our current batch of corrupt kleptocrats in congress.  Once the convention is authorized it will have COMPLETE control to rewrite the constitution in complete secrecy as it sees fit.  We will, at best end with a semi-socialist democracy similar to Europe or we will end up with a more corrupt system than we have now with God knows what provisions that will allow a dictatorship to arise.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 21:13 | 525140 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

Exactly!  Be careful what you wish for.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 22:17 | 525234 hangemhigh
hangemhigh's picture


You DO NOT want this to happen. 

i agree with you absolutely.  allowing the crime cartel to legally meet and alter the only body of law left between them and complete control of the political class is a fool's errand.

resist such lunacy at all costs.

a case in point.  revisiting the 14th amendement to 'deal with immigration issues'.  that's a hoax. 

the real issue is " the validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.”  

"Well thank goodness once again for our Conservative cousins because House Minority Leader, John Boehner, is already on the case and has suggested repealing the 14th amendment under the guise of blocking citizenship for children born in the US to immigrant parents. "

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 11:51 | 526087 Geoff-UK
Geoff-UK's picture

Sadly, the Judicial Overlords won't feel binded by the law as written.  This is all moot--guillotines are likely only option. 

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.


Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage.


We are doomed--John Derbyshire

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 00:03 | 525398 You Cant Handle...
You Cant Handle the Truth's picture

"The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate. "

Hey bozo, point out where in the above you get "complete secrecy" and amendments being passed without 3/4s of the states agreeing. Oh that's right, you can't. Because you are an idiot.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 02:19 | 525465 24KGOLD FOIL HAT
24KGOLD FOIL HAT's picture

YCH: technically you are correct but TPTB had the boob tube tell US voters that NAFTA would be good for em.  Perot tried to warn em but they believed the boob tube.  Then they said WTO and MFN for ChiComm's would be good for em.  The boob tubers bought that crap too.

There is a great danger the Matrix would hoodwink the bread and circus crowd into some crazy sh#t.  Maybe when things get worse in 3 or 4 years the majority will be ready to hold officeholders to the fire.  If there is a chance for the web to overcome the boob tube, it can be censored for "national security". 

A founding father said that American law depended on an honest and moral population.  An immoral population would blow off the laws.  Well 200 years of gradual decay and you have NYC and DC callin the shots with a European feudal deathgrip on the money supply.

Sadly the Tea Parties are being seduced by one half of the Matrix.  We are up against a formidable opponent.  We are not checkmated.  There is a move that TPTB cannot fathom.  They will lose.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 22:48 | 525308 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

We should nuke the site from orbit.  It's the only way to be sure.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 11:54 | 526096 Geoff-UK
Geoff-UK's picture


But that would make for a much shorter movie, with much less loss of life.  And the Goldman Sachs octopus/queen wouldn't have a chance to escape alive.


Tue, 08/17/2010 - 00:12 | 525410 Buzz Fuzzel
Buzz Fuzzel's picture


No to a Constitutional Convention. 

We can regain control of our government within the framework established in the original constitution.

Article 1 Section 2 of our Constitution establishes the principal of Equal Representation.  We have lost equal representation due to the evolution of the Operating Rules of Congress.  Not every voice and vote in Congress is equal.  This leads to most of the problems, which frustrate the citizenry.

The Constitution provides Separation of Powers, Checks and Balances.  When there have been disagreements among the three branches of our Federal Government, The Executive, The Legislative and the Judicial, they are resolved by agreement of a majority of the branches.  The Executive and the Judicial can overrule the Legislative, the Legislative and Executive can overrule the Judicial, the Judicial and Legislative can overrule the Executive.

The constitution in Article 1 Section 5 also provides that each House may determine the “Rules of its Proceedings”.  Neither the Judicial nor the Executive may tell the Legislative how to form their rules.  This is confirmed in Supreme Court rulings.

The current situation however, is denying the citizens of this country their right to equal representation as established in Article 1. Section 2.  The Constitution is a contract between the people and those we choose to lead our nation.  The evolution of the "Rules of Proceedings" has resulted in a violation of the principal of equal representation.  The citizen’s interests have been damaged.  The contract is being violated.

Any citizen should have standing to sue both houses of the legislative branch for violation of the equal representation principal and the damages caused by the current House and Senate rules that propagate the system of seniority in each house.  A court ruling in favor of the citizens would not violate of Article 1. Section 5.  The Judicial branch would find that the "Rules of Proceedings" have denied the citizens their right to equal representation, as written these rules violate the Constitution.  The Court could order the Legislative branch to correct this deficiency.  If the Executive branch sided with the court, the Legislative branch would be forced to rewrite their "Rules of Proceedings" to restore the principals outlined and guaranteed in Article 1 Section 2, the principal of equal representation.   They would be forced to rewrite their rules eliminating all forms of seniority and equal representation would be restored.

It would also be the death of Political parties but that is a side effect most Americans would welcome and most of our Founders would have supported.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 02:26 | 525468 24KGOLD FOIL HAT
24KGOLD FOIL HAT's picture

Buzz: + 8trillion.  If we had 10 people in every precinct we might be able to checkmate the Matrix in 2012!

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 22:27 | 525270 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Buzz, I'm against pork barrel spending for so many reasons. - Ned

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 04:14 | 525501 Pondmaster
Pondmaster's picture

Eliminating Seniority in the Congress and the Senate is the best idea I have heard yet . Term limits for the creeps next . However ... there will still be the upspoken seniority , just as in corporate America . The glass ceiling for those whom really support Joe Six Pack . Turning from complete corruption in those over us wil not happen in this generation , not for those 20 , not for those 60 . We are in the midst of a blooming "Soviet" style cornyism , heading to a Chinese slave state . No stopping this train .. sorry . Nice ideas , but no hope in mankind , inspite of Utopian rubbish inferred by Gov't and the Media , and pushed by mainstream religious millennialists .

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 11:48 | 526077 Buzz Fuzzel
Buzz Fuzzel's picture

Your pessimism is unjustified.  Re-read the original post "It is Time for a Revolution".  We the people have the tools in the current constitution to correct the deficiencies of our government.  Only two things are required.  1.) Eliminate seniority in both houses of congress through the courts.  2.)  Repeal the 16th amendment and restore the only proper form on taxation, as recognized by the founders, taxes on consumption.  This will allow the citizens to once again have direct control over their personal tax bill by deciding how much of THEIR money to spend.  This will require political action but that will come if the people are properly informed of the FairTax proposal pending in congress.

A further bonus could be gained by repealing the 17th amendment.  The people were better represented in our Federal Government when their State and Local governments were properly represented in the Senate.  If Senators were still chosen under the original terms of the original un-amended constitution there would be no unfunded mandates on the state and local governments and our federal budget would shortly be balanced by default. The states do not have power and authority to "print money" and they would immediately enforce the same standard on the U.S. Congress except in cases as originally provided for, in the case of National Emergency where Congress is allowed to borrow, Article 1 Section 8 as clarified in the Federalist Papers.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 11:55 | 526101 Geoff-UK
Geoff-UK's picture

Term limits is the answer?  I think they'll just steal and take fatter donations from GS and Citi on a shorter timeline.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 20:02 | 525027 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

America = Dead Man Walking.


Mon, 08/16/2010 - 23:23 | 525358 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Euro dives first.   Just talking my book though.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 08:55 | 525622 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Euro dives first.  Plus, as an added bonus, I'll throw in that the dollar's replacement will come from the euro's ashes.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 18:43 | 524879 Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

Try this on for size, too. PCR interview from a couple of weeks ago.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:16 | 524938 Monkey Craig
Monkey Craig's picture

Thanks for this link. Alex Jones gets the best interviews (Max Keiser, PCR, Jesse Ventura, Ron Paul). My fear is that the military industrial complex is too entrenched....i.e. peace would bankrupt us. Of course, this is the meme that main stream media  will portray if peace ever becomes within reach.

If World War 3 hasn't started, it is right around the corner.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 20:43 | 525093 jakeman
jakeman's picture

A very interesting link, indeed.

Along the same lines, there's the concern about the millions of loyal servicemen and women who would be coming home, only to be greeted by our lovely jobless recovery. And I don't believe our shiftless pols want that.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 22:36 | 525286 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

jake, generally in boot training, they don't do any drill with pitchforks.  But the lads and lasses do learn about things with a pointy-end and a "friendly" end.  Sometimes they get to practice.

So consider the oath that they have taken: " protect and defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic. ..."

and the realization they might have on getting the revered DD214, that "we're not in kansas any more."

Heinlein used this as a great backstory.

 - Ned

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 10:45 | 525897 jakeman
jakeman's picture

I'm with ya, NM.

I've been on a Heinlein kick recently....what's the book you're referring to?

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 02:32 | 525473 laughing_swordfish
laughing_swordfish's picture

I agree. In fact, I think it's the main reason the little foreign adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan haven't ended yet.

When these kids come home, get their DD214, and immediately join the ranks of both the homeless and jobless, there will be armed revolt in the streets.

Berlin 1931 , here we come

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 20:50 | 525103 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

"peace would bankrupt us."

note to monkey : we're already bankrupt bub.

we just haven't been forced to file yet.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 21:55 | 525218 Monkey Craig
Monkey Craig's picture

A bankrupt that can borrow at  under 3% for 10 years?

Thu, 08/19/2010 - 21:48 | 531890 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

repeat to monkey: we just haven't been forced to file yet.

ever see the movie Repo Men?  if not, don't worry, you will soon, and you won't even have to put it on your netflix hit list.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 18:44 | 524880 InconvenientCou...
InconvenientCounterParty's picture

According to my charts of the U.S. debt, the shit broke in 1984. WTF is Reaganomics anyway? With history as a guide it looks like borrow and spend and weath re-distribution. In 2010 it's called Socialism right?

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 22:09 | 525240 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

6 Junks?!?

How many dick bent Repubs are there are Z-Hedge anyway?

I'll say it again..."If you are a Republican...if you are a Democrat...YOU are part of the PROBLEM

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 02:52 | 525478 i-dog
i-dog's picture


Mon, 08/16/2010 - 22:27 | 525261 hangemhigh
hangemhigh's picture
by hangemhigh
on Thu, 05/13/2010 - 17:54 #349327

There is a lot of latent history here.

By the late 1960’s real organic growth in the US was in trouble.  What was then America’s primary technological asset, it’s unparalleled machine tool base, was ageing and in need of repair.  To maintain the country’s manufacturing ascendancy, billions would have to be invested over an extended time frame with real return on investment no more than a distant promise.

There were problems with that approach, though.  First was the Cold War. During the political struggle with the Soviet Union, the highest priority for both tax and investment dollars was always the arms race with the USSR.  All other allocations were secondary.

Public policy questions were an issue, too.  Increased investment in the machine tool/manufacturing base would only serve to further empower the unions and intensify the ongoing conflict between capital and labor.

With the costs of the ‘Great Society’ and Vietnam War escalating, something  had to give.  When ‘Tricky’ Dick Nixon closed the gold window in August 1971, the die was cast.

By the time the Reaganauts came to power signs of decay were clearly visible ( Watergate/ Arab Oil Embargo/12% Inflation-$850 Gold /Fall of the Shah-Iran Hostages).  Because of the dire nature of the geopolitical situation, long term solutions were out of the question.  Quick fixes were in.

The one irreplaceable asset America still retained was an impeccable balance sheet.  We were the pre-eminent creditor nation, with a huge stock of still productive, in-place, plant and equipment, and an unlimited capacity to borrow.

The rest is history.  Take a look sometime at a graph of the growth of public and private debt from 1980 on.  It’s a moon shot.  The ruling political class of that era, both  the Republicans and the Democrats, colluded and conspired to legitimize and institutionalize debt and deficits as a politically palatable short term solution to a very long term economic problem. 

Given the ensuing rise of debt based paper shuffling and the death of real productive pursuits,  Wall Street's considerable influence, over both spineless puke politicians and the get-rich-quick economy, was predictable.  


Tue, 08/17/2010 - 01:06 | 525440 Slewburger
Slewburger's picture

I'm going to call bullshit on the aging machine tool base in need of repair in the US.

Machines get built, get worked then break. That's part of capital maintenance costs.

Machine is a piece of shit??? sell it somebody else. They'll regrind the ways, install a new spindle and the thing will make good parts for another decade. I've worked in shops with machines older than my father. Google Bridgeport mill or Cincinatti hydrashift lathe. That is not the issue, its the price of labor running the machines and the labor running the labor.

Now if you're the semi retarded labor (aka MBA grad) and your looking to impress your even more retarded boss, you talk about globalization profitability. You run the numbers and short bus decides to send or source things overseas. Game over.

Learning this starts in college, is enabled (excused) by "free trade" and encouraged by fucktards so short sided they lack the creativity to innovate and be competitive.



Tue, 08/17/2010 - 09:17 | 525666 aerojet
aerojet's picture

Semi-retarded?  I never met an MBA that was anything but fully retarded!

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 21:42 | 527419 hangemhigh
hangemhigh's picture


"That is not the issue, its the price of labor running the machines and the labor running the labor."

thanks for proving my point .  the issue with the machine tool base was not so much it's age, though those machines were already older than your father, but their role as the dominant technological paradigm of the time.  

detroit and gm were the 'arsenal of democracy' that won WWII.  rather than reinvest in a aging, potential politically troubling industrial sector in the US, the decision was made to send manufacturing off shore, make the needed capital investment there, and arbitrage the much lower costs of foreign labor leveraged by abundant cheap oil. 

the secret sauce in that recipe was a then unencumbered balance sheet and unlimited ability to borrow ...............

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 18:40 | 529234 Slewburger
Slewburger's picture

 hangemhigh 's Original Comment:

"By the late 1960’s real organic growth in the US was in trouble.  What was then America’s primary technological asset, it’s unparalleled machine tool base, was ageing and in need of repair. "

You have managed to contradict yourself while putting together a few nice sounding sentences that really don't mean much.

Lets try this again, I'll try to convey my point without being all fancy.

Labor wage disparity. Free Trade. Greed.

Say it with me.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 06:14 | 525527 chrisina
chrisina's picture

" WTF is Reaganomics anyway?"

a) grow fed Govt debt from 33% of GDP to 53% of GDP

1. grow government spending

Average Fed Govt outlays as % of GDP

1977-1980 (Carter) : 20.8%

1981-1988 (Reagan) : 22.4%

2. slightly decrease government revenues

Average Fed Govt receipts as % of GDP

1977-1980 (Carter) : 18.4%

1981-1988 (Reagan) : 18.2%

b) Incite households and businesses to pile on debt in an accelerated way so as to grow GDP artificially

In the 70s private debt grew from 100% of GDP to 120% of GDP. (x 1.2 per decade)

In the 80s private debt grew from 120% of GDP to 170% of GDP (x 1.42 per decade)

In the 90s private debt grew from 170% of GDP to 210% of GDP (x 1.24 per decade)

In the 00s private debt grew from 210% of GDP to 300% of GDP (x 1.43 per decade)


So Reaganomics = grow an economy artificially by accelerating the growth of government and private debt while the intrinsic growth of the economy is declining because of rising input costs (energy), slowing demographics and slowing productivity.

Basically, Reaganomics = the cancer that is killing us.

And we are supposed to take what the "founder of reagonomics" says seriously?



source for the data quoted above :

government debt, outlays and revenues:

private debt:

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 18:49 | 524887 furieus
furieus's picture

The revolution only comes after the collapse.  Too much vincible ignorance from too many zombie lemmings... and too much power in the hands of too few with vested interest(s) to maintain the status quo at all costs.  Besides, actually getting out in front of this empire's demise would be nothing short of a miracle:  a historical first (see Jared Diamond's "Guns, Germs and Steel").

Gambatte Kudasai, America

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:02 | 524914 boooyaaaah
Mon, 08/16/2010 - 22:17 | 525251 Homeland Security
Homeland Security's picture

I would be surprised if anyone actually took that seriously.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 22:51 | 525316 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

I'd bet that you would be. - Ned

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 08:28 | 525595 MurderNeverWasLove
MurderNeverWasLove's picture
Notes about that weird Hannity clip by MurderNeverWasLove on Monday, May 17, 2010 at 2:49pm

A cursory look at what evidence there is that my little scenario might broach the truth: -- Notice how police conducted themselves perfectly. Do you think they aren't aware of the situation in this community? Did they stop anyone from filming anything? Did they tazer anyone? Did they interrogate anyone? Were their actions and words in any way disonorable to their Oath, or did it rather portray an excellent embodiment of it? Bravo.

I haven't seen the video they are so concerned about, but I didn't see anything there any different than, for instance, the (infiltrated) Hutari stuff. Since it has been proven that these sorts of scare videos are easily faked towards political ends on every spectrum.

Oh, and when ambush journalism isn't getting the goods, pay some Hooters hotties to stir something up:

When that doesn't work, just drive right into the middle of their community and start taking video. Notice the same "We want to show you this video." tactic as in first link. They finally got a little reaction there. Notice that he admits up front that he doesn't think most inside these "compounds" have seen the video. Notice that he changes his story about whether or not he had scheduled an interview.

If that doesn't get you the sort of footage you are looking for, barge into a religious service and pretend you are stupid, and start doing what they consider to be sacreligious acts (photographing the women).

But then we can go ahead and point out the hypocrisy of this video: by looking into what else is going on over there at CAN:

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:54 | 525008 midtowng
midtowng's picture

Unfortunately you are probably right. Too many people think they are getting the "truth" from Fox News or MSNBC or whatever. Too many people don't do their own thinking. Unfortunately, those same people will probably embrace a fascist dictator before doing their own thinking.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 20:27 | 525068 jdrose1985
jdrose1985's picture

that's my main concern.

would you step in front of a freight train like this?

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 21:54 | 525215 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

 - you have to get out in front of the train, and remove a "few sections of rail", so to speak.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 22:18 | 525252 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

subvert, undermine, deflect.



Mon, 08/16/2010 - 23:04 | 525339 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Rusty, it is tough to convey how far the distance is from "normal" to "let's go play."

Good comment.

- Ned

OT: You know, that invite to your smoke house, kinda' show me the place, see what I think, well, ... er ... I'm not so sure ;-)

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 23:01 | 525335 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

there's that socialist thing again-go figure.

And yes, if the French had sent one battalion into the Rheinland seizure, any show of resistance at all, the military would have rejected him with a 9mm solution, or maybe the Rommel option.

rose, there are people of all ages who have, would, and will again.

- Ned

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 22:59 | 525332 TrulyStupid
TrulyStupid's picture

They already have embraced a fascist dictatorship, no one in their right mind actually believes that a "voter" or a whole bunch of them actually have any power... the past 2 presidents (at least) are obvious puppets of neo-con/Israeli interests. Netinyahoo is dictating American aggresion (foreign policy) and Obama/Congress publicly licks his boots....Bush could never conceal his subservience.  Fox News and the rest provide the boosterism to influence the truly stupid (clearly a majority of the people) no matter how contradictory to last week's hate list.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 22:22 | 525260 robobbob
robobbob's picture

Sorry, GGS is apologistic, socialist elitist crap.  Skill, hard work, determination and sacrifice have nothing to do with success. Just luck, that hasn't been fairly distributed.

Just look at a globe and check geo political locations. So full of holes its latitude premise doesn't even hold. The American midwest was a vast undeveloped wilderness, while mountainous Peru had Incas and the Mayans were living in jungle hell. Japan, short on everything, spawned samuri. The Ethiopian empire? Mongol Hordes? Easter Island? None of these people were white europeans, and didn't live in the magic zones. my gosh, how could they make it without enlightened big gov redistributing success to them? Heaven forbid someone raising a flag and just declaring "we shall start here, and we shall be great".

The only concept it has that works is, being somewhere with lots of resources and nice weather is generally better than being in a wasteland. I hardly call that groundbreaking thought.

You want to save the US? 30 to 50 million Americans getting up one day and simply shouting "enough!!" But will they before its too late? Guess we'll be finding out the hard way.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 23:02 | 525336 TrulyStupid
TrulyStupid's picture

It's more likely that they wake up and shout "quarter pounder with fries.. I've got a coupon".

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 18:52 | 524892 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

finally, some common sense. the part about "neocons" controlling both parties and the media however is insane as is the idea that wars can simply be "ended"

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 18:56 | 524902 akak
akak's picture

Why can't the US occupations --- they are NOT "wars"! ---- simply be ended by unilateral withdrawal?  It seemed to work for the Soviets, and for the Americans in Vietnam as well, without the world coming to an end.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:01 | 524910 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

ask jihad.  do you think it "worked" for the hundreds of thousands slaughtered after US pulled out of vietnam?

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:19 | 524950 akak
akak's picture

They were never "ours" to save, or to be able to save, in the first place.  Aggressive foreign interventionism never works out for ANYONE except military contractors and "defense" suppliers.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 22:27 | 525269 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture


Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:48 | 525000 ZackAttack
ZackAttack's picture

And, just like Vietnam, it wouldn't have been an issue if we hadn't fucked up in the first place.


Mon, 08/16/2010 - 20:18 | 525059 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

...if we hadn't fucked up in the first place.

As with Israeli actions against the Palestinians, the outrages ordered by the authorities seem designed to discourage reconciliation between the peoples.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 23:09 | 525344 TrulyStupid
TrulyStupid's picture

Dire consequences were predicted as a result of withdrawing from Vietnam.. The "yellow peril" and the "domino theory" advocates were apoplectic about the coming invasion of Australia, "free" SouthEast Asia and then the US homeland itself. In retrospect these fears were groundless, like the war itself. Same thing in the current mid-east adventures.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 22:22 | 525259 Homeland Security
Homeland Security's picture

"War is just a racket....I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers."  General Smedley D. Butler

Eisenhower warned us about the Military-Industrial-Congressional Complex, but we were too busy watching Leave It To Beaver.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 23:06 | 525340 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

stick Pol Pot into the, well, pot.


- Ned

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:35 | 524969 resipsaloquacious
resipsaloquacious's picture

How convenient.  Start a war in Iraq under false pretenses, destabilize an entire region, and then (this is what takes huge fucking balls), after the world knows that the war was waged on a lie, argue: well, now we have to stay here because if we did not, civilians would die.  What a utter load of horseshit.  Relatedly, because of the costs associated with the Iraq war, the govt was forced to devote insufficient resources to the war in Afghanistan (i.e., the real war), which resulted in a long, undermanned and ultimately failed attempt at nation building. 

Either you are a tool of the military-industrial complex or so full of their kool-aid that your kidneys will soon shut down.

Yes.  Wars can be ended unilaterally, particularly when the other countries have no chance of fighting outside of their territory.  Get the troops the fuck out.  That's how you end these "wars".  That is not a naive point of view, but rather, the only rational one.

Go suck Xe's dick you fucking tool.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 22:28 | 525274 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

junk rated for "Afghanistan (i.e., the real war"

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 07:14 | 525540 resipsaloquacious
resipsaloquacious's picture

It was.  No longer, but it was.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 23:17 | 525352 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture


It ain't bean bag.

Try Hague and Geneva.

Powell laid it out so you can understand: Pottery Barn motto: "You Break it, You Bought it."

Simple enough that a caveman can understand.

So, we go back to Clinton's resolution on regime change: (where were you on that?)

and John F. Kerry (who served in Veetnam) and Hillary voted for that.  Why? Because the liberal frogs, Brits, by gosh everyone who saw the intel (the real stuff, not the Plame bs) knew.

So, it is kinda like different from what you think.  Kick over the installed government and, lo, the kicker has responsibilities to support the innocent civilians.  Then comes that glorious event, the "Termination of Major Combat Operations" when control of the political situation is restored to the "new" civilian authority.

'cuz that is what we do.

- Ned

(and you have to pass my capcha before you can call me a tool: "What is the true origin of the term nerd?")

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 23:27 | 525367 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

" Start a war in Iraq under false pretenses, destabilize an entire region, "

The region was too stable.   Duh!   A bunch of squalid dictatorships, the lot of them(*).    

(*) Except, oh!, hang on a sec, there is one pluralistic, multicultural, high tech, highly educated parliamentary democracy in the region.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 00:08 | 525405 Dirt Rat
Dirt Rat's picture

I see what you did there. Saddam was an s.o.b, but he was our s.o.b. He had even less use for fundamentalist nut jobs that we did.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 01:38 | 525451 hound dog vigilante
hound dog vigilante's picture

Great post.

Calling out these idiotic 'real politik' neocon asshats is long overdue, and it soothes my soul to know that there are other, rational people out there that are willing to confront the hypocrisy and stupidity. Yeah, it's just a blog comment/board... but this is where it turns, this is where is revolution germinates - one mind at a time.


Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:56 | 525011 midtowng
midtowng's picture

Of course wars can simply be ended. It's happened all the time in history. "Declare victory and go home". America has done it before in its wars of imperialism.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 18:53 | 524897 akak
akak's picture

My kudos goes out once again to PCR, who is willing to repeatedly tell the unabashed, uncomfortable truth regarding the USA's militarily and financially unsustainable position without any mincing of words or appeals to politically-correct limits on discussion.  The man shines the light of truth on the corruption and insanity of contemporary American society as much as does Ron Paul, and I sincerely thank him for it.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 18:54 | 524899 casino capitalism
casino capitalism's picture

Wow.  This article should hit home for a lot of people.  The scenario is entirely realistic.  And it's not some nutcase writing it.  All the more reason to take it seriously.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:01 | 524912 Johnny Bravo
Johnny Bravo's picture

Funny that the founder of Reaganomics is now talking about America being on the verge of becoming history.

Yeah, after following Reaganomics for thirty years, America is fucked.
He should have known this BEFORE he implemented his crappy economic policies of borrowing to fund tax cuts for the rich while increasing the deficit every year...

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:03 | 524916 Johnny Bravo
Johnny Bravo's picture


His latest book, “How the Economy Was Lost: The War of the Worlds,” details why America is disintegrating

Because it implemented Reaganomics?

Duh!  Now the guy who made the policies that ruined America gets to write books about how his policies ruined America.  Keep cutting taxes for the rich, buddy!
They need six yachts.  Five isn't enough.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:18 | 524949 Mercury
Mercury's picture

Right, clearly we need even more taxes and an even bigger government.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:24 | 524951 legerde
legerde's picture

dont feed the troll......  Reaganomics was "Starve the beast".  Shrink government by starving it of income.  The flaw with reaganomics was the power of the federal reserve and the desire of congress to keep buying votes.

Learn from reaganomics...  Instead of "starve the beast" we now have "starve the troll.."


Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:29 | 524964 spinone
spinone's picture

Reganomics was "feed the beast"  - tax cuts for the elite, and spending on the military industrial complex.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:35 | 524980 legerde
legerde's picture

“The only proper purpose of a government is to protect man's rights, which means: to protect him from physical violence...The only proper functions of a government are: the police, to protect you from criminals; the army, to protect you from foreign invaders; and the courts, to protect your property and contracts from breach or fraud by others, to settle disputes by rational rules, according to objective law.” (John Galt, "Atlas Shrugged").


Quoting a fictional character is probably not a great way to persuade...  But I do believe that government should be limited to a very small subset of concerns.  I also believe that not paying taxes is the only patriotic thing to do in times like this.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 20:07 | 525039 weinerdog43
weinerdog43's picture

"Quoting a fictional character is probably not a great way to persuade... "

Very true.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 20:38 | 525086 Oswald Spengler
Oswald Spengler's picture

People quote Jesus all the time.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 21:29 | 525169 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture


Mon, 08/16/2010 - 22:26 | 525265 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Actually I think they quote people who were supposedly quoting him.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 22:39 | 525294 ATTILA THE WIMP

You beat me to that. Fooey!

The Truth About Religion


Mon, 08/16/2010 - 20:34 | 525077's picture

   I heartily accept the motto, "That government is best which governs least"; and I should like to see it acted up to more rapidly and systematically. Carried out, it finally amounts to this, which also I believe -- "That government is best which governs not at all"; and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which the will have. Government is at best but an expedient; but most governments are usually, and all governments are sometimes, inexpedient. The objections which have been brought against a standing army, and they are many and weighty, and deserve to prevail, may also at last be brought against a standing government. The standing army is only an arm of the standing government. The government itself, which is only the mode which the people have chosen to execute their will, is equally liable to be abused and perverted before the people can act through it. Witness the present Mexican war, the work of comparatively a few individuals using the standing government as their tool; for in the outset, the people would not have consented to this measure.

   This American government -- what is it but a tradition, though a recent one, endeavoring to transmit itself unimpaired to posterity, but each instant losing some of its integrity? It has not the vitality and force of a single living man; for a single man can bend it to his will. It is a sort of wooden gun to the people themselves. But it is not the less necessary for this; for the people must have some complicated machinery or other, and hear its din, to satisfy that idea of government which they have. Governments show thus how successfully men can be imposed upon, even impose on themselves, for their own advantage. It is excellent, we must all allow. Yet this government never of itself furthered any enterprise, but by the alacrity with which it got out of its way. It does not keep the country free. It does not settle the West. It does not educate. The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way. For government is an expedient, by which men would fain succeed in letting one another alone; and, as has been said, when it is most expedient, the governed are most let alone by it. Trade and commerce, if they were not made of india-rubber, would never manage to bounce over obstacles which legislators are continually putting in their way; and if one were to judge these men wholly by the effects of their actions and not partly by their intentions, they would deserve to be classed and punished with those mischievious persons who put obstructions on the railroads.

   But, to speak practically and as a citizen, unlike those who call themselves no-government men, I ask for, not at once no government, but at once a better government. Let every man make known what kind of government would command his respect, and that will be one step toward obtaining it.

--Henry David Thoreau

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 20:57 | 525118 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

mad props for the thoreau amigo.  

time to speak practically once again?

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 23:29 | 525369 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

I used to take (really long) bike trips to Walden Pond.  Then Doonsberry did the "Walden Puddle" thing.  Get me wrong-NOT, but:

But O'l henry, great skosh house and all, had to, well, go visit Mr. Emerson to borrow those high-tech iron tools (made by bad technology).

Took modern transport to Maine too.  Great description of future Baxter State.  I've been on the knife-edge in a February "breeze", close to the most exciting time I've ever had.  chilly.

Great writer, he did what again?

- Ned

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 03:58 | 525493's picture

Great writer, he did what again?

He wrote. And we're still reading what he wrote 160 years later. Surely there's some value there. His method of Civil Disobedience was a model for Gandhi and King and led to some measure of liberation for billions of people. Surely some value in that as well.

Thu, 08/19/2010 - 21:53 | 531906 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

he worked his fucking ass off to repay his debts amigo.  took him awhile, but he repayed them.   a lesson for us all?

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 12:06 | 526136 Geoff-UK
Geoff-UK's picture

Reaganomics was "kick-start the economy by reducing taxes and reducing spending."  Democrats were in favor of "Keynesian kick-starting of the economy by increasing govt spending." 

So we got reduced taxes and increased spending across the board.  You can't blame Reagan for expecting Democrats to be embarassed into reducing spending when borrowing got out of hand.  And you can't be angry at Reagan without also being outraged at Democratic spending.

Democracy that allows govt financial decision-making (voting) by people who don't pay taxes has never, can never, and will never work. 

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:37 | 524984 resipsaloquacious
resipsaloquacious's picture

@legerde.  You do not know your facts.  Reagan cut taxes while massively increasing government spending.  That is as economically unsound as it gets. 

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:42 | 524992 legerde
legerde's picture

You are probably right.. I was 7 at the time.  What I have heard about Reagan that I have liked is shrinking taxes.  I do not like the expansion of government.  But I do believe that the military is at least constitutionaly sanctioned, unlike health care...

He did have the whole cold-war/russia thing to deal with as well as the horrible economy coming out of the carter years.   I dont like the current spending to revive the economy, so I shouldn't like the reagan spending either. 


Shrink government and stop the opportunity cost of debt payments... Thats all I want.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 22:28 | 525273 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Sigh, Congress spends currency, NOT the President.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 22:40 | 525287 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

Under Reagan, income tax rates were cut while other taxes, notably payroll taxes (FICA) were raised.[29] That table also does not account for inflation. For example, of the increase from $600.6 billion in 1983 to $666.5 billion in 1984, $26 billion is due to inflation, $18.3 billion to corporate taxes and $21.4 billion to social insurance revenues (mostly FICA taxes).[30] Income tax revenues in constant dollars decreased by $2.77 billion in that year. Supply-siders cannot legitimately take credit for increased FICA tax revenue, because in 1983 FICA tax rates were increased from 6.7% to 7% and the ceiling was raised by $2,100. For the self employed, the FICA tax rate went from 9.35% to 14%.[31] The FICA tax rate increased throughout Reagan's term, jumping to 7.51% in 1988 and the ceiling was raised by 61% through Reagan's two terms. Those tax hikes on wage earners, along with inflation, are the source of the revenue gains of the early 1980s. In other words...Tax cuts for the rich were paid for with tax hikes on the working class. Reagan WAS indeed ahead of his time






Mon, 08/16/2010 - 23:36 | 525381 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture


also played poker w/USSR. Remember them?  Nuclear destruction?  did you know that they went bk?

Today, under current PR regime, Lackoff would call this an "investment."

- Ned

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 06:23 | 525528 chrisina
chrisina's picture

" Reaganomics was "Starve the beast".  Shrink government by starving it of income. "

why then did government actually grow under Reagan?

see data I quoted in my comment above:

Johnny Bravo is absolutely correct. Those who junked him just want to keep on dreaming in their parrallel reality and deny the facts, the historical data.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:24 | 524958 Johnny Bravo
Johnny Bravo's picture

What we really need is two wars that give freedom to middle eastern countries that we never intend to pay for.  Oh, and we need to build schools for the children there without paying for those either.

That's what I think will help America.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 20:06 | 525035 Mercury
Mercury's picture

Just so you know, those kinds of things were core goals of the International Left for most of the 20th century. 

It shows how much The Left has re-cast it's message as: government-everywhere-all-the-time when old rallying cries like "workers of the world, unite!" and "the international brotherhood of man" have been replaced by something along the lines of: "unique cultural folkways are sacrosanct and should never be questioned."  Most of the "Neo-Cons" who were prominent advocates of things like Iraq War II were old Lefties (literally communists in some cases) who felt they never left The Left so much as The Left left them.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 21:07 | 525131 Crisismode
Crisismode's picture

Any thread that Johnny Bravo contributes to is a thread to be avoided at all costs.



Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:28 | 524965 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

As long as they aren't controlled in any way by the will of the people or fenced in by what they are able to collect in taxes. They have to be able to just issue bonds out the ass and tax everyone against their will and it has to be understood that they will collect those taxes no matter what through massive inflation. As long as we keep that rule I'm all for big government. Because it collapses in a ponzi scheme. Like right about now.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:46 | 524996 JuicyTheAnimal
JuicyTheAnimal's picture

I agree and how in the hell are we going to have hyperinflation at Walmart?  Rich folks don't shop at Walmart and nobody else is getting a slice of those newly printed greenbacks.  Or is Bennie really going to start dropping dough from whirly birds?  Let me know to go outside when it starts. 

Might we have hyperinflation of 10 foot by 10 foot canvas with a purple dot and a green line by so and so artist?  Yup.  Already do I'd say.  Plastic silverware trays at Walmart?  Not so much probably.  When people are buying whole pickeled cows for millions, "Houston we have a problem". 

Junk me all you fuckers want but I still maintain that part of the problem here is the elimination of high upper tax brackets.   With no incentive to earn more than X because it gets taxed at Y people are not so inclined to sell out their countrymen for  (100 - Y) (Total earnings - X).  Sure, their would be a fight about what X and Y is but I think there are reasonable numbers for both. 

I don't say tax 'em to redistribute it or let the government squander it, tax 'em to put a cork on greed.  Every corporation does not need to grow to be a mega multinational to have a good economy.  And in the end if it means I can afford one flat screen tv instead of two so be it.  I'll take stability and freedom of job choice instead any day.  Shit, man, let us own a little business too. 

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 20:53 | 525108's picture

I don't say tax 'em to redistribute it or let the government squander it, tax 'em to put a cork on greed.  Every corporation does not need to grow to be a mega multinational to have a good economy.  And in the end if it means I can afford one flat screen tv instead of two so be it.  I'll take stability and freedom of job choice instead any day.  Shit, man, let us own a little business too.

The problem is not "greed." Innovators who build businesses which satisfy customers and employ workers only engage in such enterprises due to an expectation of profit. If profit opportunities are reduced, innovation will necessarily be reduced. Atlas will shrug.

The real problem comes when some corporations influence legislators to enact regulations which give advantage to those favored corporations above other competitors. Oil companies are subsidized by wars paid for by American blood and treasure at the expense of other businesses which would develop alternate forms of energy. "Too big to fail" banks are bailed out on the taxpayer dime to the detriment of smaller banks, which the rescued giants proceed to swallow whole.

But you see here, that the problem is government itself and its inevitable corruption by certain rich and powerful entities which do not seek to profit through innovation but through the special protection of regulation and legislation.

It is not realistic to trust the government to solve our economic problems by taxing the rich because inevitably, the wrong rich people, those who seek profit through innovation and not legislation will be the lambs at the sacrifice. Those who make profits and seize power by manipulating government will continue to profit, as always.

Government is the the problem not the solution.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 00:47 | 525432 JuicyTheAnimal
JuicyTheAnimal's picture

I agree and disagree.  It's not black and white.  Government is needed to stop "bad apples from spoiling the bunch".  Monopolies are going to regulate themselves?  With no government we'd already have one giant corporation and everyone would work for tidily winks.  We need good government and fair government and I truly believe that high upper tax brackets were part of that.  Nobody says you still can't get "rich".   What of true value to mankind did Warren Buffet innovate by the way?  How about Bill gates?  It is my opinion that software, particularly the windows OS has been stymied by greed.  Would someone really not innovate something because they could make say only 5 million a year off of it as opposed to 400 million?   Do these CEO's innovate anything at all?  Is health insurance really innovative?  Charge everyone much more than what it is collectively worth, wow, profit, so innovative.  Is it innovation when Walmart undercuts all the family owned eye doctors in a neighborhood?  (Only later to slowly raise prices after they are all out of business?)

What we have instead is a the slow dummying down of a population and the selling out of the government to the bad apples.  And the underlying cause of this is in fact greed, greed for power, popularity and money.  I don't understand how people can't see that.  Most people don't give a rats ass to be billionaires.  Most people wouldn't close the plant, ruining a small town USA to make slightly more profit in Vietnam.  But the same people also aren't willing be the slime that it takes to get to the top to make those decisions.  And most people aren't narcissistic enough to run for government office either.  Blah blah blah.  I could go on.  

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 04:32 | 525496's picture

Monopolies are going to regulate themselves?  With no government we'd already have one giant corporation and everyone would work for tidily winks.

This is pure fantasy. Please show even one example of an entrenched monopoly which gained its power without government assistance.

And the underlying cause of this is in fact greed, greed for power, popularity and money.  I don't understand how people can't see that.

But this so called greed only has the power to crush all competition when coupled with the power of government to regulate, imprison and kill.

Please read the following. It is long, but it thoroughly details the diference between those who seek to enrich themselves through innovation and those who use government regulation to drive out competition.

Government is the problem not the solution.

The Truth About the “Robber Barons”

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:43 | 524994 Ricky Bobby
Ricky Bobby's picture

Jesus ban this phucking idiot already.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 23:41 | 525386 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

dude, no sweat, he embarrasses himself.  Maybe you could command him to go back to Cas for a 3 month period of self-criticism.  you know, he could get his mind right.

and (hate to inform you) but Jesus ain't in charge of this little section of cyberspace.  But we don't talk about it much.

- Ned

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:03 | 524917 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Sadly, the last tire on this flatbed of larceny will have to blow out so as to crisis-push the critters into the big tax play called VAT.....and lots of it.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:36 | 524981 bullwinkle
bullwinkle's picture

Rainman you got that right.  Pushing everyone to the edge of the abyss and then they'll say "We got no other choice".

Count on it.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:07 | 524920 Thurifer
Thurifer's picture

My question is when everyone dumps dollars they are going to put all that money.......where? I don't know of any assest classes ( or group of classes) that could absorb the resulting trillions. Please, someone enlighten me.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:21 | 524944 akak
akak's picture

Simple: it will not go anywhere, i.e., it will merely disappear.  Just as has happened in countless currency depreciations and collapses throughout the fiat age.  Go ask the average Argentinian where 75% of their savings went in early 2002, for example.  It didn't go anywhere --- for all practical purposes it never really existed in the first place.  That is the essence of Pyramid-schemes, such as our financial and monetary systems today.

Most of the "dollar wealth" is simply fictional, without any fundamental backing or support in the real-world economy. 

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:30 | 524966 maddy10
maddy10's picture

you mean to say all the 'dollar billionaires' will sit quietly and take it

don't think so

expect more distractions for another 10-15 years while these things get dragged on

one should keep a keen eye on the moves made by the HNIs

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:54 | 525009 trav7777
trav7777's picture

They won't have any choice.  Look, I know people with formerly-rich Argentine relatives, who basically with all that was left after these devaluations, could afford a nice pair of shoes.

Billionaires are relatively common.  Only those with severe connections to the political class will escape it, as was the case in Argentina.  Yes, they will fuck over everyone.

Those who talk about Raygunomics, lol.  It was an increase in taxes on the middle class via elimination of deductions on interest, such as student loans and CC debt, with a concomitant decrease in tax rates for the very rich.  IOW, it was a total joke and it spawned all this.

Raygun was a figurehead; get that through your minds, folks.  He was no more "in charge" than Crater was; he had the same backers who now back Obamma.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 23:24 | 525362 InconvenientCou...
Mon, 08/16/2010 - 23:26 | 525363 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

scripted actors.  lightning rods for the masses to focus their e-motions on, nothing more.

can't be repeated enough.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 08:07 | 525578 augmister
augmister's picture

The BANKERS.  In charge.  The BANKERS always WIN.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 08:24 | 525592 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

Yes, Trav, that was when the Consumer refinanced their Homes to pay off their CC Debt.  Then when times get tough they lose their Homes as their CC Debt is now Securitized.  That is actually why People started to uses their Homes as ATM Machines.  This Tax Law change has helped to decrease Americans Wealth thru their Home Equity.  It also has caused those Retireing not to have enough Money.  In the past Americans greatest wealth was in their Home.  Now it is Mortgaged to the hilt.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 22:32 | 525279 optimator
optimator's picture

Those 'dollar billionaires' will know when to move their ill gotten gains offshore into other currencies and gold.  It's happened in other countries, and quite often.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 23:27 | 525364 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

100,000 acres in Paraguay.

when's the last time you remember an ex-US president jump ship?

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:42 | 524990 saulysw
saulysw's picture

Some of it, at least, will go into precious metals. As these are small markets, they will move A LOT with even a tiny % of this cash.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 20:10 | 525042 JJ McApe
JJ McApe's picture

some asset classes will be very expensive in the future ;)

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 21:02 | 525121's picture

My question is when everyone dumps dollars they are going to put all that money.......where? I don't know of any assest classes ( or group of classes) that could absorb the resulting trillions. Please, someone enlighten me.


Hyperinflation, Money Demand, and the Crack-up Boom


But then finally the masses wake up. They become suddenly aware of the fact that inflation is a deliberate policy and will go on endlessly. A breakdown occurs. The crack-up boom appears. Everybody is anxious to swap his money against "real" goods, no matter whether he needs them or not, no matter how much money he has to pay for them. Within a very short time, within a few weeks or even days, the things which were used as money are no longer used as media of exchange. They become scrap paper. Nobody wants to give away anything against them.



Let me tell you a great story. I have told it many times over the years. Back in the 1970's, I knew a retired banker named Norbert Einstein. He was very urbane, the model of a European gentlemen. He was the cousin of a more famous Einstein. He told me about the experience of their Aunt Rosa.

Aunt Rosa was a slow learner, unlike her nephews. She did not catch on to what the German central bank was doing until 1923, the final year of the mass inflation. She finally figured out that she needed to buy hard assets. But she had waited too long. There were none to buy. Well, almost none. She did find a seller of a niche product: bedpans.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 21:39 | 525171 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

My question is when everyone dumps dollars they are going to put all that money.......where? I don't know of any assest classes ( or group of classes) that could absorb the resulting trillions. Please, someone enlighten me.

Bowen's Lookout           

(Ref.: L4814996)


13, Bowen Road
Midlevels Central
Hong Kong

 Basic Info

High Rise Apartments, Simplex, Low Floor Zone


- Out-stretching views from the nearby greenery to the distant harbour.

Size and Layout

2,388 sq.ft.
4 Bedroom(s), including 2 Ensuite 3.5 Bathrooms
Combined Living and Dining Room

Detailed Layout

0 Family Room
0 Study
1 Balconies
0 Terrace(s)
1 Maid's Room
1 Utility Room
1 Covered Carparks

Internal Condition

- Bright living room has full height glass doors opening out to the balcony.
- Dark wooden floorboard has a modern elegant touch.
- Efficient layout allows for an optimal arrangement of furniture.
- Every bedroom comes with a built-in wardrobe.
- Fully fitted and equipped kitchen with granite countertops, cabinets and brand-name built-in appliances.
- All of the bathrooms are luxuriously designed with marble decoration. Master bathroom features separate shower and bath facilities.
- Maid's room at the back of the kitchen is furnished with a bed.


- Nicely decked balcony takes full advantage of the serene environment.

Asking Monthly Rental

HK$ 118,000 inclusive

Management Fee

HK$ 7,820 per month

Government Rate

HK$ 10,759 per quarter

Government Rent

HK$ 6,456 per quarter


Mon, 08/16/2010 - 22:47 | 525307 ATTILA THE WIMP

I think I'll buy it. Yeah, I need some place to keep my dogs.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:07 | 524922 Johnny Bravo
Johnny Bravo's picture

Also, the article is wrong.  The last Bush deficit was in 2009 (since the federal budget runs from October to October).  TARP was under the Bush administration.  You couldn't have only a 400-500B deficit if you paid out far more than that in TARP.
This is obvious proof of the conservative lie that should be paid close attention to.

F^*&ing hacks.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:32 | 524972 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Nice to know those 'hack' Dummocrats were part of the Bush Admin.

Can we get rid of them, now?

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 20:00 | 525020 tom
tom's picture

I hate partisan crap like this, from Rs or Ds. Deficit spending ramped up to roughly its current pace of more than 10% of GDP during Bush's last four months. But since that was after the end of FY08 on Sept 30, the last full fiscal year of Bush's presidency, this guy thinks he can subtly shift all the blame onto Obama while still remaining technically accurate. What a chump.

"Traditionally, these trade surpluses [of other countries with the US, ie US trade deficits] have been recycled to the US and finance the federal budget deficit."

Yeah that was a really old tradition, too. About seven years old. Almost back to the beginning of Bush's presidency. Ancient!

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 23:32 | 525375 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Don't get us wrong dude, "compassionate conservatism", i.e. moderate liberalism, pissed us off, but that's what we had to work with.    Art of the possible.    The current dickhead is 10x worse, numerically, and don't get me started about Congress.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:08 | 524926 Janice
Janice's picture

You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 21:04 | 525129's picture

The Beatles - Revolution (Live)

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:14 | 524939 boeing747
boeing747's picture

When GOP takes over Congress in Nov, they will pass tougher sanctions against Iran, eventually a regional war breaks out there. Mideast countries will buy US weapons and t-bills like crazy using Gold and Oil, then same thing moves to Korea, by the time world returns to peace, we are debt free.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:18 | 524948 legerde
legerde's picture

Nice job everyone in the comments!  I really like the silent treatment on JB. :)

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:25 | 524956 akak
akak's picture

Agreed.  The only problem with that tactic is that, usually, the more the undisciplined and malicious child is ignored, the louder and more frequently they scream in full tantrum mode until a reaction is elicited.  The patience of the hate-filled troll and disinformation agent is almost always going to be longer than that of the honest and sincere poster, as they are typically more focused and highly motivated in their malevolent pursuit to disrupt and destroy dialogue over topics that they find threatening to the status-quo power structure.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:34 | 524975 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Ooops, mea culpa.

Mon, 08/16/2010 - 19:44 | 524985 legerde
legerde's picture

Thanks..  I was sad at first, then I kept scrolling down.   Now I smiled really large.


Thank you! :)




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