Four Scary Words: "Silver Delivery Not Possible"

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Mon, 04/25/2011 - 12:40 | 1203870 primalplasma
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That's why it doesn't count unless you have the silver in your hands...and people will only be able to get at it if they pry it out of them, dead and cold!

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 12:47 | 1203906 Thomas
Thomas's picture

That would be excellent for small claims court (but with a very significant point to be made.)

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 12:46 | 1203918 Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

If you're wondering what I think, here you go:

http://tfmetalsreport.blogspot.com/2011/04/be-cautious.html

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 13:17 | 1204074 Paper CRUSHer
Paper CRUSHer's picture

Well bro,I guess you'll be stickin' around for good since that $1500 target ya made was taken out well before summer.For the few o'those still remaining(trolls),tread carefully for one of these days you too will be Turdminated.

BTW,even though its been quite a while since i last checked out 'tfms' i gotta say keep it comin'.

 

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 13:45 | 1204246 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Fightin' the good fight!  Its a thankless job, but someone's got to do it!

Atleast you know one thing for sure in this fight, you are in good company!

Check out the latest from the Capital Research Institute "Cracks Starting to Show?":

http://www.capitalresearchinstitute.org

Even though the Capital Research Institute was only officially founded 3 months ago, we have already started seeing various predictions come true.  Commodities inflating rapidly?  Check.  Lingering sovereign debt crises?  Check.  Gold and silver at, or approaching, record prices?  Check.  Another conclusion from our analyses was that the US dollar will inevitably lose world reserve currency status.

Others are not as convinced.  Michael Pettis, a Finance Professor, and writer for Financial Times (ft.com) recently argued that although the US should be prepared for a lesser role for the US dollar in the world of finance, fears of its demise are overblown.  Suffice to say, here at the CRI we strongly disagree with that assessment...

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 17:26 | 1205326 Banjo
Banjo's picture

Turdminated. Love it !!

 

/begin rant

It's Over.

NWO

Barry Soetoro

Globalist bankers

WTC7 WFT??

FIAT money slavery.

Fukushima :(

Titanic is going down.

/end rant

 

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 20:27 | 1206033 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

The Titanic's going down?

And I was just starting to have fun watching the Feds re-arranging the deck chairs...darn it all.

I'll race you to the lifeboats!  <grin>

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 20:30 | 1206035 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

<erased accidental double-post>
<darned trigger finger!>

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 14:01 | 1204366 FLIP THAT BOND
FLIP THAT BOND's picture

I'm with yah Turd, this is a great time for a shakeout.  I'm waiting until Thursday to get back into short dated options and I see three or four weeks of clear sailing before the selloof before the end of QE2 (if the institutions are even still in control at that point).

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 14:04 | 1204367 FLIP THAT BOND
FLIP THAT BOND's picture

I'm with yah Turd, this is a great time for a shakeout.  I'm waiting until Thursday to get back into short dated options and I see three or four weeks of clear sailing before the selloof before the end of QE2 (if the institutions are even still in control at that point).

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 14:06 | 1204368 FLIP THAT BOND
FLIP THAT BOND's picture

Lowest silver to gold ration will be 5 to 1.  Start shifting into gold at 15 to 1 and finish at five to one.

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 16:11 | 1205012 AUELOX
AUELOX's picture

I finally convinced (just) one friend to buy Precious Metals.  He purchased and had them deposited in a East Coast Depository.  They do not "pool" but keep them in "segregated storage".  When the SHTF, do you think his PM's will be safe?  I keep mine near and dear.  Do you have any thoughts Turd?

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 13:29 | 1204133 weinerdog43
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Actually, no, this is not a matter for small claims court.

Small claims can only resolve matters in terms of dollars and cents.  What you are looking for here is called "specific performance".  In other words, you don't want the greenbacks, you want your 5,000 ounces of silver.  Another example would be real estate.  You don't want the value of the property, you want the property itself.  A money judgment means nothing.

Therefore, you would have to file in District or Chancery Court to secure relief.

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 14:06 | 1204384 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

A money judgment means nothing.  More so now than ever!

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 14:48 | 1204644 Alienated Serf
Alienated Serf's picture

you guys crack me up.  you don't think the depository has a arbitration clause in the contract? 

sheeple don't get to go to court.

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 14:55 | 1204670 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Why was the guy paying storage fees on a pool account?

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 15:03 | 1204716 Votewithabullet
Votewithabullet's picture

...red flag.

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 15:27 | 1204809 Alienated Serf
Alienated Serf's picture

Just because you own part of the pool doesn't mean the pool is stored for free.

Tue, 04/26/2011 - 01:55 | 1206767 Anonymouse
Anonymouse's picture

I agree his account agreement probably allows for pooling.  And it probably has an arbitration clause.

But I think fraud over the storage fees should allow an actual lawsuit.

I think that's the claim he should make.  I would bet that he is paying full storage costs for his silver.  The question is, are others also paying storage costs for the same bars.  If so, that would be fraudulent.  Sounds like he should file a class action suit.

Tue, 04/26/2011 - 05:22 | 1206973 TheRagingTory
TheRagingTory's picture

Although its possible that the company is acting fraudulantly, having sold the silver and still claiming the storage fees, but its entirely possible the company is completely above board.

It seems more likely that most of its clients are merely holding a 10% share of a 1000oz bar, pay 10% of the storage costs of a single bar and because no one was expected to hold several full bars, the company made no allowance for withdrawls.

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 12:47 | 1203921 cbaba
cbaba's picture

+1

YES , YES and YES

it doesn't count unless you have the silver in your hands...

Everybody must read and repeat this word, its explains everything clearly.

 

 

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 13:04 | 1204003 thames222
thames222's picture

exactly--physical holdings don't mean shit unless they're actually physical!

 

www.forecastfortomorrow.com

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 13:52 | 1204318 tiger7905
tiger7905's picture

Kingworldnews famous "London Source" says Asians will think nothing of running silver to $100/oz

http://goldandsilverlinings.com/?p=791

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 12:48 | 1203926 justbuygold
justbuygold's picture

Lately the non delivery factor is becoming an extremely common event. I am hearing this everywhere. People are not getting delivery, especially at the big banks.  Furthermore , Sprott's silver trust filed a shelf prospectus a few weeks ago in preparation for another large issue.  Why hasn't this taken place ?  The answer is he cannot find enough GOOD DELIVERY silver.  Even when he IPO'ed he had to scramble over to Europe to secure the balance of his silver and then pay ridiculously high insurance and transportaion charges.  

 

The silver shortage is REAL !  I expect you willsee Comex settling for cash as early as June.  Now Comex inventories are below 35 MM oz  the sramble to get delivery will accelerate exponentially as it becomes a race to get whats left.

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 13:05 | 1203992 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

According to Harvey Organ's site, they settled dozens or perhaps hundreds of contracts for cash in the last silver delivery month in March.  It was very clear, the COMEX might show that there were 150 contracts fewer waiting to be settled than the day before but they'd only note silver being delivered to 120 contracts.  The other 30, by implication, had been paid off with a cash premium to not stand for physical delivery. 

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 12:52 | 1203936 bobby02
bobby02's picture

Wow! How scary! I need to run out and sell the kids to buy more silver coins.

Doesn't it bother anyone that neither the name of the broker nor any specifics of the brokerage account are mentioned? Meanwhile, this charming tale has been posted in hundreds of places on the Internet.

Now, that would make me go Hmmmm.

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 12:56 | 1203961 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Now that's being silly...

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 13:17 | 1204080 bobby02
bobby02's picture

If you want silly, read the stuff about non-delivery and cash settlement.It would be interesting to regress the number of such comments against the days left till settlement. I expect the relationship is geometrical, if not exponential.

 

Funny how after every contract expiration goes off without a hitch, all the people who predicted non-delivery/cash settlement/cats sleeping with dogs in the street disappear or "Be vewy vewy quiet."

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 13:24 | 1204116 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

The non-disclosure agreements that are associated with the cash settlement premiums are very binding.

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 13:47 | 1204280 bobby02
bobby02's picture

How convenient. I suppose the agreements are signed by 12-foot martians that we can't see either.

 

Out of all these cash settlement premiums and delivery fails, no information on a single one of them has ever come to light.

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 15:05 | 1204727 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

Nadler, I smell you.

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 17:15 | 1205289 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

That's one of Blythe's shills you smell.  The less payoffs she needs to make, the better her (and Jamie's) bonuses will be.  It's better (for her and her employer) that all the greedy bastards here that can swing more than ten contracts believe there's nothing but heartache in trying to scam her.  Shills are cheap.  Much cheaper than silver longs.

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 17:19 | 1205269 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

The penalty amounts can be in the millions.  And they are watched.  If it was me, I sure as hell wouldn't risk it.  What is there to gain?  A little publicity and your name in lights on Harvey's Daily?  Not enough for any thinking organism.

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 17:17 | 1205295 bobby02
bobby02's picture

Fine. Show us the data. I will be the first to admit I was wrong.

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 17:21 | 1205304 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

What data?   Are you stupid or just dense?

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 13:21 | 1204104 Jonas Parker
Jonas Parker's picture

Morgan Stanley got caught pulling this stunt a couple of years ago and got nailed in a class-action suit. Look it up!

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 13:52 | 1204316 bobby02
bobby02's picture

Your're right - I remember. The penalty was a joke. And UBS has recently been named in a similar action.

Don't get me wrong, this story could be on the level. It's just funny that the broker/type of account/any salient details whatsoever have been omitted. You would think that journalists and conspiracy types would want that stuff in there. Thus, it has the ring of truth without any substance.

Meanwhile, if you google this story, you will get pages of hits. Look at the boner it ellicited among ZH gold bugs. Does this not seem strange to you?

 

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 13:33 | 1204182 SuperRay
SuperRay's picture

I'm an open-minded guy, bobby, and i have to consider your point.  I have "allocated silver" in a depository for my IRA, and i'm in a quandary, because if I take physical delivery, that counts as a taxable withdrawal.  Anybody know anything about Sterling Trust?

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 14:14 | 1204452 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Yeah, I do. They say they have your silver held in trust for you. I don't trust them with YOUR silver. Do you? Put them to the test. Demand delivery and see what their response is.

Be sitting down when you make the call. Just in case.

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 17:38 | 1205374 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

If your IRA invests its money in the shares of a Sub. S corp or LLC that owns the physical PM, you could be the person that manages the storage of it.  There are companies that enable this sort of thing, I hear.  I don't know how the IRS feels about it.

Disclosure: DYODD!!!  I know nothing.

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 14:37 | 1204587 eisley79
eisley79's picture

http://www.cnbc.com/id/42610684

yes, strange how if you click through on the sources, it leads no where...

 

what's it like being a FAAAAAHCKING NOOB?

 

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 15:11 | 1204750 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

But, but, but....how do we know that this Jane Wells is a real person?  How do we even know there's such an entity as CNBC?

We don't even know who Tyler Durden is. I'm pretty sure he's not Brad Pitts.

Mos Eisley, you'll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy...than the Treaserve.

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 17:56 | 1205437 eisley79
eisley79's picture

been using variants of eisley since the remaster went back to theatres in what was it 1999?  First person to ever realize its not a name, but part of a name ;) bravo

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 12:53 | 1203944 MarketTruth
MarketTruth's picture

As they say, "If you don't hold it, you don't own it."

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 13:04 | 1203962 Popo
Popo's picture

This is sort of a non-story.  This guy didn't understand the difference between 'unallocated' and 'allocated' accounts, and he's writing about it as if he got screwed somehow.   It doesn't take a genius to do the due diligence on this subject before investing.

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 13:09 | 1204020 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

Yes, but there are at least two pieces of information here.  One is the guy's being wronged or not. The other is that the silver market is sort of like an offshoot of The Producers.

Instead of Bialystock and Bloom, you've Dimon and Blythe Masters.  If they can just be certain that their production (the market for silver) will fail, then no one will expect to cash in on a profit. 

Unfortunately, they accidentally made their tragedy so risibly obvious that they're being laughed at around the world.  Much to their chagrin, silver's a hit.

Springtime for Bernanke.

 

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 13:36 | 1204186 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Agreed on the non-story. The guy made a stupid decision and as usual a conspiricy is being built around it.

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 14:30 | 1204553 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

"......... and stored them with an East Coast Broker" Storage fees charged means it was sold to him as allocated. Pool accounts do not, in my experience, attract storage fees as pool accounts are used as the operating (daily ins and outs)  stocks of the brokerage house. Contractually, they track the price of silver, sans storage fees. They are not stored, therefore no storage fees. He was ripped. They use your money to buy transient or transferable physical. Pool accounts are are trading accounts. Brokers who use them are shorting the buyer.

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 13:25 | 1204111 NewThor
NewThor's picture

Government promises and entitlements?

"Sorry. Delivery not possible."

 

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 13:31 | 1204165 SparkyvonBellagio
SparkyvonBellagio's picture

Think you actually own those SHARES OF STOCK YOU THINK YOU OWN?

 

Try getting the CERTs..

 

 

You'll come up with 4 letters.... DTCC

 

Google that beach of an acronym.... DTCC

 

 

 

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