Four Scary Words: "Silver Delivery Not Possible"

Tyler Durden's picture

The SHTFPlan's Mac Slavo brings us the story of one Bill Cramer who decided to cash in on his silver profits after a nearly decade holding period (under the assumption he was receiving warehousing services considering he was paying storage fees), confident that he could simply receive the metal he held with a broker, until he heard the following 5 very disturbing words: "Sorry, delivery is not possible."

From SHTFPlan:

"Bill Cramer of St. Louis was pretty confident everything was on the up-and-up. He purchased 5000 ounces of silver back in 2003 for a spot price of $4.94 and stored them with an east coast broker. When he was discussing his holdings with his coin dealer, the dealer dared him to try and take delivery of the metal.

Bill took him up on that dare and contacted his broker requesting to take delivery of his supposed physical metal holdings, for which he had been paying storage fees for years. As you may have guessed, the broker advised him that physically delivering the metals was not possible."

Here is how Bill recounts his experience:

So, I took his dare, I called them up, it was June of last year. The metal I had purchased in January of ’03. I said “I’d really like to take delivery of my metal – the five thousand ounces.” They go “well, that’s not possible.” And, I go “well, I’ve been paying storage fees since January of ’03, what do you mean I can’t take delivery.”

“Well, it’s part of the account. It’s called a pool account. And, you don’t take delivery, you just participate in the appreciation.”

So I immediately sold that 5000 ounces at $18.33 and I had my cell phone in my hand and I immediately purchased 2500 silver eagles at $18.41 and that’s how I reconciled the problem of not being able to take delivery of my physical metal from a brokerage account.

In other words: anyone who has "pool account" exposure may want to reevaluate their options. And, if we may add, anyone who has Comex storage exposure in general (University of Texas wink wink) even for allegedly delivered gold, and when massive amounts of "registered" gold get mysteriously shifted to "eligible" status, may want to be reeeeally careful now that silver is about to take out its all time nominal high.


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primalplasma's picture

That's why it doesn't count unless you have the silver in your hands...and people will only be able to get at it if they pry it out of them, dead and cold!

Thomas's picture

That would be excellent for small claims court (but with a very significant point to be made.)

Paper CRUSHer's picture

Well bro,I guess you'll be stickin' around for good since that $1500 target ya made was taken out well before summer.For the few o'those still remaining(trolls),tread carefully for one of these days you too will be Turdminated.

BTW,even though its been quite a while since i last checked out 'tfms' i gotta say keep it comin'.


Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Fightin' the good fight!  Its a thankless job, but someone's got to do it!

Atleast you know one thing for sure in this fight, you are in good company!

Check out the latest from the Capital Research Institute "Cracks Starting to Show?":

Even though the Capital Research Institute was only officially founded 3 months ago, we have already started seeing various predictions come true.  Commodities inflating rapidly?  Check.  Lingering sovereign debt crises?  Check.  Gold and silver at, or approaching, record prices?  Check.  Another conclusion from our analyses was that the US dollar will inevitably lose world reserve currency status.

Others are not as convinced.  Michael Pettis, a Finance Professor, and writer for Financial Times ( recently argued that although the US should be prepared for a lesser role for the US dollar in the world of finance, fears of its demise are overblown.  Suffice to say, here at the CRI we strongly disagree with that assessment...

Banjo's picture

Turdminated. Love it !!


/begin rant

It's Over.


Barry Soetoro

Globalist bankers


FIAT money slavery.

Fukushima :(

Titanic is going down.

/end rant


Hacked Economy's picture

The Titanic's going down?

And I was just starting to have fun watching the Feds re-arranging the deck chairs...darn it all.

I'll race you to the lifeboats!  <grin>

Hacked Economy's picture

<erased accidental double-post>
<darned trigger finger!>

FLIP THAT BOND's picture

I'm with yah Turd, this is a great time for a shakeout.  I'm waiting until Thursday to get back into short dated options and I see three or four weeks of clear sailing before the selloof before the end of QE2 (if the institutions are even still in control at that point).

FLIP THAT BOND's picture

I'm with yah Turd, this is a great time for a shakeout.  I'm waiting until Thursday to get back into short dated options and I see three or four weeks of clear sailing before the selloof before the end of QE2 (if the institutions are even still in control at that point).

FLIP THAT BOND's picture

Lowest silver to gold ration will be 5 to 1.  Start shifting into gold at 15 to 1 and finish at five to one.

AUELOX's picture

I finally convinced (just) one friend to buy Precious Metals.  He purchased and had them deposited in a East Coast Depository.  They do not "pool" but keep them in "segregated storage".  When the SHTF, do you think his PM's will be safe?  I keep mine near and dear.  Do you have any thoughts Turd?

weinerdog43's picture

Actually, no, this is not a matter for small claims court.

Small claims can only resolve matters in terms of dollars and cents.  What you are looking for here is called "specific performance".  In other words, you don't want the greenbacks, you want your 5,000 ounces of silver.  Another example would be real estate.  You don't want the value of the property, you want the property itself.  A money judgment means nothing.

Therefore, you would have to file in District or Chancery Court to secure relief.

Chuck Walla's picture

A money judgment means nothing.  More so now than ever!

Alienated Serf's picture

you guys crack me up.  you don't think the depository has a arbitration clause in the contract? 

sheeple don't get to go to court.

SWRichmond's picture

Why was the guy paying storage fees on a pool account?

Alienated Serf's picture

Just because you own part of the pool doesn't mean the pool is stored for free.

Anonymouse's picture

I agree his account agreement probably allows for pooling.  And it probably has an arbitration clause.

But I think fraud over the storage fees should allow an actual lawsuit.

I think that's the claim he should make.  I would bet that he is paying full storage costs for his silver.  The question is, are others also paying storage costs for the same bars.  If so, that would be fraudulent.  Sounds like he should file a class action suit.

TheRagingTory's picture

Although its possible that the company is acting fraudulantly, having sold the silver and still claiming the storage fees, but its entirely possible the company is completely above board.

It seems more likely that most of its clients are merely holding a 10% share of a 1000oz bar, pay 10% of the storage costs of a single bar and because no one was expected to hold several full bars, the company made no allowance for withdrawls.

cbaba's picture



it doesn't count unless you have the silver in your hands...

Everybody must read and repeat this word, its explains everything clearly.



thames222's picture

exactly--physical holdings don't mean shit unless they're actually physical!

tiger7905's picture

Kingworldnews famous "London Source" says Asians will think nothing of running silver to $100/oz

justbuygold's picture

Lately the non delivery factor is becoming an extremely common event. I am hearing this everywhere. People are not getting delivery, especially at the big banks.  Furthermore , Sprott's silver trust filed a shelf prospectus a few weeks ago in preparation for another large issue.  Why hasn't this taken place ?  The answer is he cannot find enough GOOD DELIVERY silver.  Even when he IPO'ed he had to scramble over to Europe to secure the balance of his silver and then pay ridiculously high insurance and transportaion charges.  


The silver shortage is REAL !  I expect you willsee Comex settling for cash as early as June.  Now Comex inventories are below 35 MM oz  the sramble to get delivery will accelerate exponentially as it becomes a race to get whats left.

Fred Hayek's picture

According to Harvey Organ's site, they settled dozens or perhaps hundreds of contracts for cash in the last silver delivery month in March.  It was very clear, the COMEX might show that there were 150 contracts fewer waiting to be settled than the day before but they'd only note silver being delivered to 120 contracts.  The other 30, by implication, had been paid off with a cash premium to not stand for physical delivery. 

bobby02's picture

Wow! How scary! I need to run out and sell the kids to buy more silver coins.

Doesn't it bother anyone that neither the name of the broker nor any specifics of the brokerage account are mentioned? Meanwhile, this charming tale has been posted in hundreds of places on the Internet.

Now, that would make me go Hmmmm.

Harlequin001's picture

Now that's being silly...

bobby02's picture

If you want silly, read the stuff about non-delivery and cash settlement.It would be interesting to regress the number of such comments against the days left till settlement. I expect the relationship is geometrical, if not exponential.


Funny how after every contract expiration goes off without a hitch, all the people who predicted non-delivery/cash settlement/cats sleeping with dogs in the street disappear or "Be vewy vewy quiet."

FeralSerf's picture

The non-disclosure agreements that are associated with the cash settlement premiums are very binding.

bobby02's picture

How convenient. I suppose the agreements are signed by 12-foot martians that we can't see either.


Out of all these cash settlement premiums and delivery fails, no information on a single one of them has ever come to light.



FeralSerf's picture

That's one of Blythe's shills you smell.  The less payoffs she needs to make, the better her (and Jamie's) bonuses will be.  It's better (for her and her employer) that all the greedy bastards here that can swing more than ten contracts believe there's nothing but heartache in trying to scam her.  Shills are cheap.  Much cheaper than silver longs.

FeralSerf's picture

The penalty amounts can be in the millions.  And they are watched.  If it was me, I sure as hell wouldn't risk it.  What is there to gain?  A little publicity and your name in lights on Harvey's Daily?  Not enough for any thinking organism.

bobby02's picture

Fine. Show us the data. I will be the first to admit I was wrong.

FeralSerf's picture

What data?   Are you stupid or just dense?

Jonas Parker's picture

Morgan Stanley got caught pulling this stunt a couple of years ago and got nailed in a class-action suit. Look it up!

bobby02's picture

Your're right - I remember. The penalty was a joke. And UBS has recently been named in a similar action.

Don't get me wrong, this story could be on the level. It's just funny that the broker/type of account/any salient details whatsoever have been omitted. You would think that journalists and conspiracy types would want that stuff in there. Thus, it has the ring of truth without any substance.

Meanwhile, if you google this story, you will get pages of hits. Look at the boner it ellicited among ZH gold bugs. Does this not seem strange to you?


SuperRay's picture

I'm an open-minded guy, bobby, and i have to consider your point.  I have "allocated silver" in a depository for my IRA, and i'm in a quandary, because if I take physical delivery, that counts as a taxable withdrawal.  Anybody know anything about Sterling Trust?

Al Gorerhythm's picture

Yeah, I do. They say they have your silver held in trust for you. I don't trust them with YOUR silver. Do you? Put them to the test. Demand delivery and see what their response is.

Be sitting down when you make the call. Just in case.

FeralSerf's picture

If your IRA invests its money in the shares of a Sub. S corp or LLC that owns the physical PM, you could be the person that manages the storage of it.  There are companies that enable this sort of thing, I hear.  I don't know how the IRS feels about it.

Disclosure: DYODD!!!  I know nothing.

eisley79's picture

yes, strange how if you click through on the sources, it leads no where...


what's it like being a FAAAAAHCKING NOOB?



Imminent Crucible's picture

But, but, do we know that this Jane Wells is a real person?  How do we even know there's such an entity as CNBC?

We don't even know who Tyler Durden is. I'm pretty sure he's not Brad Pitts.

Mos Eisley, you'll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy...than the Treaserve.

eisley79's picture

been using variants of eisley since the remaster went back to theatres in what was it 1999?  First person to ever realize its not a name, but part of a name ;) bravo

MarketTruth's picture

As they say, "If you don't hold it, you don't own it."

Popo's picture

This is sort of a non-story.  This guy didn't understand the difference between 'unallocated' and 'allocated' accounts, and he's writing about it as if he got screwed somehow.   It doesn't take a genius to do the due diligence on this subject before investing.

Fred Hayek's picture

Yes, but there are at least two pieces of information here.  One is the guy's being wronged or not. The other is that the silver market is sort of like an offshoot of The Producers.

Instead of Bialystock and Bloom, you've Dimon and Blythe Masters.  If they can just be certain that their production (the market for silver) will fail, then no one will expect to cash in on a profit. 

Unfortunately, they accidentally made their tragedy so risibly obvious that they're being laughed at around the world.  Much to their chagrin, silver's a hit.

Springtime for Bernanke.


A Lunatic's picture

Agreed on the non-story. The guy made a stupid decision and as usual a conspiricy is being built around it.

Al Gorerhythm's picture

"......... and stored them with an East Coast Broker" Storage fees charged means it was sold to him as allocated. Pool accounts do not, in my experience, attract storage fees as pool accounts are used as the operating (daily ins and outs)  stocks of the brokerage house. Contractually, they track the price of silver, sans storage fees. They are not stored, therefore no storage fees. He was ripped. They use your money to buy transient or transferable physical. Pool accounts are are trading accounts. Brokers who use them are shorting the buyer.

NewThor's picture

Government promises and entitlements?

"Sorry. Delivery not possible."


SparkyvonBellagio's picture

Think you actually own those SHARES OF STOCK YOU THINK YOU OWN?


Try getting the CERTs..



You'll come up with 4 letters.... DTCC


Google that beach of an acronym.... DTCC