This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
France Grinds To Literal Halt As Authorities Impose Fuel Consumption Restrictions
The strike that was supposed to be over two weeks ago refuses to go away. In the meantime, we get the following headline: "Local French Authorities say have imposed fuel consumption restrictions for the public in Normandy due to shortages." And yet Sarkozy promised that the country has more than enough fuel to last it through the strike. How could fearless leaders be possibly lying?
More as we get it but pretty soon it seems France will literally grind to a halt.
»
- 9984 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
It's a little known fact, but societies suddenly become richer, just because workers strike, and hence gold plated pension schemes suddenly become affordable. </clavin>
While I dont agree with a lot of what the strikers are demanding, they should go on strike.
Europe is not doing austerity, which is actually a beautiful concept. Europe is spending a lot of money saving the banks while at the same time cutting on social government spending. That has a name, and its not austerity.
The french have all the reasons to go on strike.
Sorry I misread your post and went off the deep end with much profanity.
My deepest apolgies - I am now becoming a deeply irrational and angry man as the banks rape my country (Ireland) to pay off unpayable debts.
Again my deepest apolgies , I agree completly with your take on this "austerity"
No problem. Another european here (from the south).
I understand. Rage is the only thing left with what they are doing.
I think people should understand what they are really doing and unite. It does not matter if you believe in a small government or you believe that government should try to take care of a lot of things. What is happening now goes against both ideas. We should understand what they are doing and then unite against it.
Yea I agree socialist France has a lot of issues, but at least the people go out and shut down the country and say 'hell no' when the govt tries to curtail them unlike here in america where the clueless spoiled lazy citizens just believe nothing bad can ever happen to them.
I'm sure the French government is rather jealous of that, dreaming of telling their workers to STFU and go back to making cheese.
Hey man, i know this is off topic, but in another thread you posted:
The government is writing off more than 200k on the principal and interest for my student loan debt (yes, I have a lot of letters after my name, which will probably shock some of you). Depending on how much I make, my payments may be as low as $10 a month, and after a number of years they just write off the remainder.
I personally could stand to benefit from this..
I'd contact you through email or something, but I don't know any other way to reach you other than through these forums.
Ever heard of the tea party? Instead of believing what the cheer leader media says, perhaps you should try to understand what it is about.
Still living in France, so I give my now habitual update to ZH readers: out of 12,500 fuel stations in the whole French territory, 2,000 were out of fuel the 19th, and 4,000 are now out of fuel.
In the West part of the country, many violent actions have nearly paralyzed the economic activity. France is currently losing about 200 million € per day of strike.
200 persons have blocked fiat paper loadings coming from the Bank of France (Americans should try that with Banana Ben's printing presses).
Strikers have still no intention of giving up, and the unemployed suburbians have nearly destroyed the centreville of several big cities.
Thousands of factories are now stopping all production.
http://www.romandie.com/ats/news/101021155342.1i7xtm0z.asp
"200 persons have blocked fiat paper loadings coming from the Bank of France (Americans should try that with Banana Ben's printing presses)."
Try that in America and there would be 200 less Americans.
I say good for France. There's a reason this isn't being shown widely in America.
God forbid the fawning corporate press aka MSM would actually show humans in a state of protest. After all, we know that the only state humans are ever shown on TV is in pre-copulation, copulation and post-copulation. Or shooting, knifing or maiming your former copulator.
"Protests" in America consist of picnics in Washington. The biggest this year, that Beck thing, featured not one speaker who called upon the audience to stand up to the financial, corporate and military complex of TPTB. Indeed, more of those protesters were there to profess their love of the oligarchy. And the counter-rally was no better, missing the point entirely. Blindness and docility.
Now how many junks can I rack up if I say that "protesting" in America has turned into just another form a (mutual) masturbation. We shall see.
The trick is to feed into the protesters ego rush that results from "opposing" TPTB without actually challenging the protestor to actually "do" something such as opposing TPTB. What we're really talking about here is a faux state of excitement, where the emotional high received by releasing the endorphins doesn't actually result in potential physical, mental or emotional harm.
If one thinks about this, it is exactly like masturbation. We get all lathered up to the point where we experience release, but with none of the complications of actually dealing with a partner. In fact, this is a wonderful illustration of the modern American life. It's a faux life, complete with the illusion that we are having the time of our lives during those brief periods when we're excused from hamster wheel duty. And from what I can see, those "time out" periods are about to end.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faux
Hamster wheels, CD? The average American picnicking-protestor is so obese he couldn't do two revolutions in one of those. Yet another reason we'll never leave our couches for fightin' in the streets.
Bro -
i was tripin off the "junking" of ur first post...i really am starting to wonder about some of the natives here at Zero...
I think it's a love / hate thing.
Someone loves to hate me. :>)
Sounds a lot like Orwell's Two Minutes' Hate, doesn't it?
It does, now that you mention it.
BTW you're able to last two minutes? :>)
sort of... maybe if we were yelling at china as a currency manipulator or something like that... I agree we're not yelling at the right thing, given we're confused and yell at entities rather than their principal actors... but we're closer than goldstein to the problem.
I believe america's system is far more ingenious than even orwell depicted.
Protest and the counter-culture have long since been co-opted by Madison Avenue. Protest is now wearing an obscure brand of jeans, and ironically drinking cheap beer.
You do realize that rally was about religious revival right? 300,000-500,000 paid their way to go to that. Like Beck or not, he's the only individual in this country so far that has proven able to mobilize a significant number of people. That "counter rally"(who the hell holds a rally to counter religious unity and common decency amongst people?) was pathetic. They paid the way for forced union members to attend and this is all they accomplished:
http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/comparison-color1.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wkw7n9Qagu8
We'll see what Colbert and Stewart can pull off with the backing of the President, Oprah and the HuffPuff lady next weekend. If they can't get it done with that lineup, forget it. That'll leave Beck as the sole man in America that can get people moving, for better or worse.
Religious revival, LOL. Religion is one of the opiates used to distract people from what's being done by the financial, corporate and military complex. Karl was right on the mark for once.
And your 300,000-500,000 number is as jacked up as the loaves and fishes thing.
Denninger, one of the founders of the Tea Party Movement, had a great interview a couple of days ago to explain how the movement's been hijacked. Here's the current site for his post of 10/20:
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?blog=Market-Ticker&page=3
I have no interest in getting in a pissing match over crowd estimates, but to say that 300,00-500,000 was overstated shows a clear lack of knowledge. Here is an article that explains the estimation method used by the park service up until they stopped(Million Man March):
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-01-19-crowd_N.htm
From Ronald Reagan(3rd red dot from the left) to LBJ(last red dot from the left) there is a difference of 700,000. That is roughly the same distance as what Beck's following filled in. Yes the pool takes out all the length, but it is more than made up for by the people off to the sides and under the trees:
http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/comparison-color1.jpg
I don't see how anoyone could reasonably say that is an inflated estimate. If anything, it is being conservative.
You have gone from yammering about how a spiritual event didn't have speakers denouncing "the man" so it wasn't a protest(which it was never meant to be), to showing ignorance on the crowd size and slandering religion, to changing the subject entirely to the TEA Party. Get your shit together man.
Bravo, Conrad!
See below, Mr. Lost Cause Which Also Claimed God Was On Its Side.
Read it and weep.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20015214-503544.html
300,000 to 500,000? With a spread that large you're all but admitting you have no idea. Now, Conrad, let me hear you refute the scientific analysis to which I linked above. But Beck and most of his "religious" buddies deny science, anyhow, so you're exused.
Right, Becks minions are moron drones with american flag tshirts, idiots.
Damn that's a lot of copulation. Can I have a few 6-packs of those? Thanks..
LOL
Sounds like your conditioning is progressing nicely. Another 1000 hours of genuine imitation TV copulation should do it. :>)
LoL!!! Indeed, someone in America is ALWAYS getting fucked!!!
Exactly, CD ... we are supposed to consume only, not be political, thus the bread, circuses and
distractions offered by mainstream media.
We can't block fiat paper in the US because it is all digital.
I stuck my thumb in the RJ45 port.. eat that Benny!!
But did you catch the Wifiiiz and 3Gzzz?
Both ends of a patch cable into a network jack will create hours of fun for the unprepared network engineer. Bah, these guys probably have spanning tree, and/or 802.1x running. I would.
After all they are the best and the brightest...right?
We cant block fiat paper in the US because there is so much of it! Ever tried to hold back a freight train?
i have to admit i laughed out loud on that one.
i did take a picture of me flipping off the Federal Reserve on my last pass through of DC. before i even did it, the guards were very uneasy about us even standing on the street out front. the most important building in DC and nobody was protesting.
Oh but this is America remember, land of 'freedom fries'. According to most yanks the French are a bunch of spineless cowards. Apparently there's at least 200 of them with some balls.
Thanks for letting us know.
Tell the French we rescued then in WW2, we could sure use their help in World Economic War 1.
We've been over run by Wall street socialist who have taken over the gov't.
We think President Obama is a hologram or his brain has been sucked out, we're not sure which one.
Send reinforcements, quick
i wish someone would rescue us. mr. obama is in seattle today, probably staying at the Westin seeing as how i got stuck in random traffic this morning near there. maybe i'll go have a drink in the bar there and see if he is willing to hear our thoughts.
The sun is out and he'll be gone later today.
Life is good.
I think providing an example of what people (even those whom we roundly belittle for their pansy-assedness) can do is all we can reasonably expect.
The rest, my preening American friends, would seem to be left to us.
For clarification for those unfamiliar with France, by "suburbians" (a euphemism) TheGreatPonzi would mean to say mobs of dependent people of largely north african descendance. The suburbs are shitty in France because governement housing was located there, at the ends of the metropolitan transportation lines. Today these old "new cities" are no-go areas not only for the police, but also for emergency services trying to render aid unless they go in heavily supported. Visits by masses of "suburbians" or "youth" and so forth to city centers have routinely resulted in burnings of tens up to hundreds of cars for years now. Nothing new.
I was junked for even suggesting this in the last "French" thread. This is important to understand as part of the dynamic of uprisings in Europe not just France. Of course, NPR junked me so no problem.
I guess we could just quote Angela Merkel from last weekend, who dared to state the somewhat analogous issue in Germany, to wit, that "multiculturalism has failed" in Germany.
It has failed in France too, in a numerically bigger way, because the numbers are proportionnally much bigger. %50 "youth" unemployment, conservatively, amongst row after row of socialist style concrete government housing blocks. A great many of the units have a satellite dish on the balcony pointed at arab language satellites, not CANALSatellite or whatever.
Thank you for the conveyance.
In the West part of the country, many violent actions have nearly paralyzed the economic activity. France is currently losing about 200 million € per day of strike
This is not a big figure, mind you.
Strikers have still no intention of giving up, and the unemployed suburbians have nearly destroyed the centreville of several big cities.
This is just not true.
We can understand that the kind of massive demonstration this country is used to can certainly be disconcerting to say the least for an anglo-saxon visitor, even on a long-term assignment.
While we are certainly getting into the difficult zone, I urge ZH members to take the messages by American expats here with a grain of salt. The situation is certainly still better than what the 1995 strikes.
I have not heard that these tough times - 1995 - ever got mentionned in history books. The situation is still under control overall. Of course, at this stage, any provocation, on any side, could trigger dangerous collateral effects.
We are just not there now. No insurrection. French people are angry. Aren't you!
My memory tells me 1953 and 1968 were the big riots in Paris. 1953 over the Rosenberg case and 1968 over Vietnam. I just realised both were over American politics so perhaps they are just the ones that were best reported here in Canada.
As the American Sheep silently, and Zombie like, march towards their shearing.
I don t know where romandy is getting its figure of 4000, I'm French, there's 2000 + stations out of fuel. Media is somewhat exaggerating on facts as usual.
Better not let the masses here get whiff of this before winter sets in. Wouldn't want them getting any ideas. No wait, they're going to show their anger by not voting. Yeah, you got that the man? They're gonna sit out and do nothing! You'll learn your lesson mister oppressor, yes you will.
How do we get those French to illegally immigrate here. We need some of that
OOPS!! Nasdaq going into red.
Seems Ben is taking a nap or he believes he can make up in tomorrow's POMO.
Non to petrol. Eet ees a Stupide Americaine envention. All zat eye want ees my Cheese smell soap.
It's only a matter of time before it happens here.....
Considering that Obama has been the best gun and ammunition salesman
this country has ever seen, I really don't think I want to see it happen here.
Very true. I bought my weapons just a few months ago.
Guy I know in rural NC bought $12,000 of guns & ammo the day after Obama was elected in 2008.
I wonder where are "our" frenchmen"?!?!?
Assimilated as every other ethnic group has been into that great melting pot in the sky.
Now shut up and finish your French Fries.
a belgian invention...
Exactly, it's because of "people" like you that they are in the "sky", you seem to be there too, is insulting all you know? Too bad! Soon you can do/say it to all them "angry taxpayers"! And please, this is a blog, not a redneck frying pan!
Once you've been here for more than a few weeks, you might be able to recognize my sarcasm or even my poetic turn of phrase. However, it is wonderful to see that you can be so easily emotionally triggered into rapid responses rather than thoughtful contemplation.
I assume you do know what a "melting pot" is with regard to the USA and immigration, right? Here, try this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melting_pot
"Once you've been here for more than a few weeks, you might be able to recognize my sarcasm or even my poetic turn of phrase. "
Weeks? Is that how long it takes to see it or recognize it????? Or differentiate?
Right here, mon ami. But we've been in the old doghouse here in the US for some time now, ever since we poo-poo'd the invasion of iRAQ. No one likes my countrymen...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/8076192/French-i...
The revolution will not be en l'anglais.
Who's gonna blink first?
Sarkozy? Or the unwashed masses?
....
The government won't blink, but it will lose the next elections.
And then what.... something will be different?
More Euro "strength"...France unable to initiate minor austerity should definitely send dollar to $1.50. <sarcasm off>.
American's haven't even begun to imagine austerity here...but that day is getting closer and TSWHTF as the government meddling, proping, giveaways are everywhere but only likely austerity will be at the lower ends of the economic spectrum.
Hopefully the French (inventors of modern democracy) and Brits will remind us how this works and show us how austerity must be a shared burden accross all sectors of the economy and not just taking away money from poor and child support (non voters) while maintaining the kleptocracy.
Um, no, the French revolution came AFTER the American revolution. BTW, they are on their "5th" Republic now, because their governments keep not working out. The 6th Republic is not far in the future. From memory we are still working with the somewhat amended Constitution from 1787, reinterpreted by our courts to say the government can do whatever it wants to individuals or states, in the name of the remotest imaginable butterfly effect any actions we may take could theoretically have on Interstate Commerce. Believe it or not, that little issue there is the one that will bring about revolution (or secessions) here, not some trifling issue about details of the central government's pension ponzi failing. That it will fail is well known.
Kudos on the retort and the summation!
I don't think its fair for the unemployed to lose their summer cottages...its stressful as hell freeloading.
What do you think of the bankers?
Presumably they are working very hard at hiding all the losses.
Yeah we need us some real protestors over here, only wait they are protesting for the government to borrow more and give to them, which seems contrary to what American's want.
On second thought maybe we should sack up and protest for what we want done here. We used to import people wanting to be free who were willing to die for it. Now we want everything given to us without doing anything for it and heaven forbid we actually get sick and die, or have to ration our wages for food in this country.
French joke. Seen on E-Bay, "1 used WWII french rifle, never fired, only dropped once."
The first time I heard that joke I laughed so hard I fell off my dinosaur.
Went to read about this on France24 and the headline that caught my eye was this:
Berlin sharply raises growth forecasts for 2010, 2011
Germany raised its forecast for the economic growth of Europe's biggest economy for this year and next on Thursday, predicting an expansion of 3.4 percent for 2010 and slightly lower growth in 2011.
-Ok, what happened to that crumbling Europe we heard about all winter/spring? I guess the stronger Euro is not hurting them in the least. This to me is by far the biggest story of the day.
The funny thing about forecasts is that you can forecast nearly anything you want. Nobody will laugh at you until the time to check the score actually comes. And the European governments have a pretty ridiculous track record.
Did you bother to actually read the story? Probably not. It's pretty damn impressive and if people took off their "gloom glasses" for a second, maybe a lightbulb will go off.
"The recovery is standing solidly on two legs: after a strong push from exports, the domestic economy is now taking off," he added.
Germany, the world's second-biggest exporter after China, suffered more than most during the downturn, as global demand for its goods dropped off sharply.
In 2009, it suffered its worst recession in six decades, with output contracting by 4.7 percent.
But the country has bounced back impressively, with exports booming, unemployment at a relatively low level and companies reporting solid profits.
"Did you bother to actually think about the story? Probably not."
Fixt.
I'll even point you in the right direction: the Euro. Now look at where it is, and tell me if this growth story is sustainable, in light of the general unwillingness to "go turbo".
Was it not Messieur Trichet who famously said all of the EU's statisticswere complete and unadulterated rubbish but 48 hours ago?
Oh, and Greece has no debt.
Wait for the revisions!
Hey, HarryWangers, what time do folks you get off? I'll meet you across the street at Pound and Pence. Beers are on me. How many seats shall I save?
Would love to but I'm not in NYC - on the west coast right now.
You choose Germany the engine of the E.U.
Whats the growth forcast for Ireland,Spain,Italy,Greece,Portugal,Slovenia,France ...?
Oh dear lord! It's like I said yesterday. Some of you can stare very good news in the face but still seek more "bad" news. This is a good sign for Germany AND Europe. Get it?
I read where it's we can't get past perceived bad news or fear because we evolved that way. Early man always had to be on the look out for attackers or other problems. Same holds true today, everyone is looking for the "next bad news item" because we're programmed that way.
So for me to tell you to just "get over it" is a losing proposition. But what I can do is point out obviously excellent news to at least open your eyes even just the slightest.
In the spring of 2008 , the fed forecast the unemployment rate for 2009 of 5.5%, and GDP growth of around 3.5%.
How did that work out?
Please, just read the article. They're talking about the strong growth they are experiencing NOW.
The German government more than doubled its economic growth forecast for this year to 3.4 percent on Thursday and lifted next year's outlook slightly to 1.8 percent as healthier domestic demand complements the country's export strength.
I am willing to bet that if QE2 comes in at greater than $1T, that the last quarter of 2010 and next years outlook will be substantially reduced.
Alas, one should never let facts interefere with the excellent forecasting ability of Ph.D economists.
German GDP will go up at least 1% for every other EU nation that is in strike, and EUR will just keep on climbing. They will end up fabulously rich buying half of the known universe.
Can't Jean Reno fix this?
We all have been waiting for either Greece or Ireland to be the first shoe to drop in the soon-to-be European implosion. Who would have guessed it may be France? RIP Euro
This vote will likely pass, the demonstrations will cool off and everyone will go back to sitting at the cafes all day wondering what it'll be like to work 30 hours a week for a couple of extra years.
Give that a few months until the debt pyramid finally implodes. We can only live in a make believe world for so long.
LOL! Heaven forbid, what would the French have done if the Govt had raised the retirement age by 5 years?
I don't think people want something for free, but their tired of a stacked system.
We're I grew up, if you saw someone spending and earning money like no tomorrow, you knew they were either in the mob or selling drugs, but no one who was working for a living was making money like that. Business is hard work.
If I were French, I suppose I would be asking why should I give up my fat ass entitlements so Sarky can bailout the PIIGs.
Those fat ass entitlements are nothing more than debt accumulated by the French gubimint and aided by banksters fraud. Credit rate swaps?
The frogs are going to have to pay someday for doing nothing. As Kanye stated, "y'all can't pay, y'all can't leave".
+++++++ Awesome!
France really is a room full of gasoline. You have all those unemployed unintegrated moslems, you have students who can expect not to be employed until they are almost 30, you have all these people who have always assumed they were going to get their early retirement and you have a bunch of elitist fags (I use the term in the modern sense) running the government.
I have a feeling we ain't seen nuthin yet.
In a severe enough crisis(and we aren't there yet) I can see any of the european countries reverting to form, which is to say, picking out a scapegoat, some easily identifiable foreigners or traitors amongst them. The next elections in France and elsewhere in Europe will show a continued rise in the popularity of nationalist parties. Recall Chirac vs Le Pen, or the success of Gert Wilders party in the Netherlands, and so many others, country by country across the EU.
Shit, they are already moaning about gypsies and Arabs. Why should we believe Europeans have suddenly been transformed in the past 60 Years? Merkel said it all this week when she said Germany has failed in its experiment with cultural diversity. Ouch!
Meanwhile, we are on our own crusade against Mexicans. Shit the Mexicans should do a one day work stoppage to show what would happen in the US.
That might give our legal brothas a window of opportunity to fill those jobs. But, then again, it might not.
How about we deny them use of emergency rooms and welfare for 30 days, and run the numbers.
Should be instructive, one way or the other.
Considering how various ethic groups have been placed within other ethic groups who are still dealing with an influx of other ethic groups over the past 20 years, one really couldn't be blamed for wondering if "the authorities" wanted a powder keg to blow up. Of course, that just crazy talk.........right?
I mean, this is just random with no one deliberately trying to destabilize a country (or countries) in order to loot it's wealth while engaging in massive social engineering and control since they knew the economic system could never be maintained and all those promised fulfilled.
Right?
Phew, thanks for talking me off that ledge. I appreciate you confirming for me that this is all just a silly coincidence.
I would agree with your view totally. However, I don't think the French have the basic brain processes needed to organize a massive government conspiracy. I think it is more like Punch and Judy ;-)
Never ever said or implied it was the French that did
You're leaping to conclusions WB7 that fit your worldview.
And so what do you call Federal, State and County pensions, Social Security, Medicare and so on?
Don't worry, I have the American "We Are Fucked" gas pump ready to go...
Your posts go up way too fast WB7.
I've always suspected there are 3 or 4 of you rotating up from the noodle shop. It's the only answer. :>)
Replicants ;-)
You're in your room minding your own business when someone walks in and kills your cat. How does that make you feel?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blade_Runner
I have watched that movie at least 50 times. I even have a pile of snap shots to help remind me I am a human ;-)
I have the very same set of snap shots. Very comforting during those long cold nights on the off world colonies. I've seen things......
So have I...times up, time to...
BTW, Gaff is a cool dude, no?
And so what do you call Federal, State and County pensions, Social Security, Medicare and so on?
What is "What's going to do to us in about 5-10 years what France's system is doin them now?" for 500K, Alex?
Do I win?
Or do we all lose?
You dear friend are the first winning loser. Congratulations.
Your prize is an all expenses paid trip (well, in fact the row boat over is paid for) to the slums of France, with a return ticket to the slums of NYC in 5 years.
BTW, the taxes owed on your "winnings" have already been extracted from your checking/savings/IRA/401(k) account.......sucka. :>)
YAY!!
Oh, wait...
Social Security? Most of us would view that as the program we have paid into for our entire working lives. What's so hard to understand about that?
"Entitlement" my ass.
Looted, perhaps, but fucking paid for.
Not hard to understand.
SS was never paid for. That was the public myth sold to the working public (and re-sold and re-sold to each new generation with ever increasing benefits) in order to get buy-in.
SS has always been a Ponzi scheme, with young workers paying for the older retirees on a day to day basis. There never was a SS "Trust Fund" but rather a SS "Surplus" Fund of money not immediately obligated to be paid to current retirees. This "extra" or surplus money was immediately "borrowed" by Congress and used to pay general obligations. At it's best, and only for a few years, 16% of what was collected was "saved" for future generations. Most is immediately paid out the back door to the lucky Ponzi payees.
Classic Ponzi.
Perhaps I'm childishly naive, but it seems to me that I should at least get my money back. I'm thinking the Fed or TBTF's might rightfully be tapped for that.
I paid my money. Time for them to pay theirs.
I understand the argument for giving it up. I'm not buying it.
It will be interesting to see how many others will be willing to bend over for a "mature" argument based upon the wonder of numbers spun by the "right" attitude.
BOB
First let me explain that I share your outrage. I'm simply explaining how SS has ALWAYS been viewed by the ruling class.
It was never your money put aside for you. There is nothing to "get back". It was a current tax to pay retirement benefits to the current retirees. You and I were lied to. Period.
If by "them" you mean the current workers, in 10 years there will only be around 2.3 workers for every retiree. There won't be enough of "them" to pay for "us". If by "them" you mean the Fed or the TBTF, any "money" they have is printed out of thin air. And money you might currently have is based upon nothing more than the faith that the Ponzi can continue to be propped up. There is nothing backing your money other than faith in the Ponzi.
You have no control over this issue. If the Fed succeeds in keeping the Ponzi going, your "benefits" will be paid out in devalued dollars that "best case" are worth less and less each month. If the Fed doesn't keep it going your benefits will be worthless. If the 2.3 workers paying your benefits say "No More" your benefits are worthless. There is no pile of money to pay you or me.
It has nothing to do with a mature argument. There is no money stashed away to pay you. SS was and is a Ponzi. The only way you and I will get "paid" is to maintain the current economic system that exploits you and me and the person paying your benefit. This is a very bitter pill for people to swallow after 30 or 40 years of SS propaganda and indoctrination.
The Soviet Union also had their own version of SS in the form of "public pensions". Let's take a look at what those retirees are being paid 20 years after that system spiraled down.
"You have no control over this issue. If the Fed succeeds in keeping the Ponzi going, your "benefits" will be paid out in devalued dollars that "best case" are worth less and less each month. If the Fed doesn't keep it going your benefits will be worthless. If the 2.3 workers paying your benefits say "No More" your benefits are worthless. There is no pile of money to pay you or me."
I'm going full bore batshit crazy on you here, CD. "Control" sometimes changes. History is replete. Question is where it's going from here.
Embracing impotence as a foregone conclusion . . . well, I'm becoming monotonous in my objection to anything that signs, seals and delivers that, regardless of how sophisticated the means.
I am not embracing impotence Bob. I have never said we are impotent. In fact, my articles are replete with exhortations that we have the power within to change everything. And that it is remarkably easy to make those changes if we really wish to make them.
What you seem to be saying is that all the promises made to you from the old world can be maintained while creating a new world. I disagree. The old world was built upon and maintained with lies. Lies to us, lies to each other, lies to ourselves.
I'm simply saying that the only way the promises made to you can be kept is for the lies that maintained the "system" be continued. Or more accurately the lies must accelerate exponentially. If that is what you wish to happen, you're on the wrong blog here Bob. There has never been a way, under the system as it stands today, to give everyone what they have been promised.
It is not impotence to say that the system can not produce what it can not produce. It's not like it was stolen from you Bob. It could never produce it from the beginning. Under the present system, you will not get your cake nor can you eat it too. And under a new system, any new system, the old promises must be defaulted on if a new system is to grow and survive.
The old system promised 100 people that they could eat from the same small cake. No matter how many ways you slice it, it's not gong to feed everyone. We were lied to. Period. We aren't impotent. But we aren't going to receive what was never possible to produce. That is the end result of a Ponzi. No matter what you do, you can't make a Ponzi last forever without an endless supply of new suckers.
We live in a finite world with limited suckers. Or at least limited suckers who are willing to support the Americans in the lifestyle they are accustomed to.
Wow, The Architect steps forward! Man, am I dreaming . . . or has it been The Matrix all along? Wait, I'm getting my movies mixed up here.
It ain't a zero-sum game, my friend. There's a vast space between a ponzi and what is possible in a "well-regulated system," if you will.
I ain't Neo, but I neo there's something far better than what we've come to.
You're starting to truly amaze me, though. I've never heard so many brilliant ways to preach sweet s-u-r-r-e-n-d-e-r.
The lifestyle "we've" become accustomed to can, imo, be maintained. The oligarchs' lifestyle, OTOH, not so much.
Good Lord Bob. You really must be depending upon your SS checks coming in the future. Or continue to come in the future.
See, it's clear right here that you think that at some point maybe 10 or 20 years ago that the system was working reasonably well and that only recently did it go off the rails.
I fully agree that economic systems can function to the benefit of all and I do understand what is possible in a "well regulated system". There is no argument on this point. None. But not the current system. And any future system will not be able to assume the nearly $120 Trillion Dollars of unfunded government obligations already promised with more being racked up daily.
You consistently refuse to acknowledge the elephant in the room by declaring I am surrendering. Please explain to me how a lifestyle that was previously maintained by a Ponzi can be maintained in a new economic system without initial pain and defaults while you transition? How do you move from the old to the new without problems?
Because you have stated that our current lifestyle can be maintained. Thus you are saying it will not decline while the changes are made and once the change is made, all the old obligations will be honored. I'm all ears Bob because it sounds pretty good.
I agree that at some point in the future we can create a new economic system that would provide everything we need and want. I keep on asking you how we go from one to the other without the lifestyle of many people being reduced. You seem to be stuck on the idea that I'm denying this concept is impossible. Never said that. Never. I'm saying you can't get there from here without some spilled water and broken toes.
Tell me how. That's all I'm asking.
Fair enough, CD. It's the transition that is the devil.
Problem is that we are at a fateful pivot point, imo. We face a transition of one sort or another and it will, inevitably, be painful.
What remains to be seen is what kind of transition it will be and toward what end we suffer that pain.
You know, it was only a few short weeks ago that the "smart money" here was convinced beyond all doubt that the MSM wouldn't cover any of the MBS debacle, that the banksters would not be put under any significant pressure, etc. Those views have been proven incorrect.
How does it end? We'll see, but I think there is little doubt how it will end if we don't expect and resolutely demand that it end right. Public pressure has its limits--which I recognize as painfully as anyone--but it remains to be seen what those limits will prove to have been at the other side of the maelstrom that now faces us.
I think what CD is referring to is that 'promises' were made to you in x number of FRN's. As the ponzi comes to a conclusion, it is more likely that either the FRN will significantly change in value (hyper-inflation) or be replaced by another currency. I'm not trying to put words in CD's mouth, but I think he is trying to say that it is more likely that when the ponzi global banking system collapses from the weight of the collective promises, it will likely have to be replaced by a completely new system. And the trap is that if people want to maintain the x number of FRN benefits, then they become proponents of the current system. That is how people are co-opted into the system - promises of future benefits from within the system.
IMHO, the system that replaces the current ponzi will be either more controlling (fascism if you like) or more free. But a more free system has fewer promises to each other. It is more self-reliant.
So, I don't think CD is talking surrender - in fact just the opposite, but it will require people to give up their 'promised benefits' to get to the other side, which is the part that makes people want to stay...
There WILL BE much wailing and gnashing of teeth, no matter which path is chosen; therefore, do what you can to help/save those you care about!
Well then, you would be wrong. The actual view of the program is that it's a wealth transfer program funded by a tax, plain and simple, nothing more or less, that you (and your employer on your "behalf") have paid your entire working life upon which you have precisely zero contractual claims.
Don't like it (and I certainly don't)? Take it up with the SCOTUS...
http://www.ssa.gov/history/nestor.html
Exactly! Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps.. those are entitlement programs. Social Security is something that WE paid for directly and with our own money! Gov't and MSM have gradually moved Social Security into the discussion of 'entitlement programs' which is just plain f**king wrong and evil.
What you have been told your entire working life is not agreeing with what it has always been and what it was always designed to do and how it was always designed to operate.
Meaning you are objecting to the game being changed at the end. Only the game was not changed. The game has always been the same. You were just lied to about the rules and payoff at the end of the game. You and I were defrauded. By the government and ruling elite. There is no one to turn to that can make it better. There is no pile of money to pay you. You must hope that the government can continue to defraud current workers so they will pay into the system so you can be paid out.
The two questions I have are these. What are you going to do about the fact that you were defrauded and will you allow yourself to be defrauded again by the same people who did so the first time?
If I was the typical Boobius Americanus, I would be sitting on my obese ass munching garbage whilst watching Lady Gaga perform her illuminati rituals But since I am not, I hauled ass out long ago and now live in a safer, lower cost environment free of the constant harrassment of the petty fascist state. Freedom.... I recommend everyone try it at least once.
Check these out:
http://reason.com/blog/2008/10/24/saving-social-security-episode
Bailout the PIIGS? ???
The French government is trying (weakly, not even in half-measures) to avoid joining the PIIGS.
Condition a population from birth over generations that the Gubermint is the "horn of plenty" for birthright cradle-to-grave leisure and luxury and watch the hillarity ensue the instant anything goes wrong in the tracks the gravy train is running on.
Sure some are looking for handouts, but I think you are missing the greater point. These banksters pledged the pension funds of workers on fraudulent securities trading. When the fraud was uncovered and the banksters were about to lose their ass, the government’s made those banksters whole. Now that the banksters are whole with public pledged money, the government is going after the plebes again. Stop watching your television and you will not be so easily divided against the people you should be embracing.
Dr, I have a hard time embracing a people who want to do nothing but live an easy life while millions starve daily worldwide. This is regardless of their nationality.
I agree with you on that 100%. I see it every fucking day and wonder why I bother working any more. I figured out it was so I could support those that don't.
My point is that the bankers NEVER get austerity pushed upon them and their losses become ours while they swim in the profits. Something has to fucking give. Bankers get to plea out in arbitration over their theft and only have to return half of it while admitting nothing so they can serve on boards elsewhere. These fucks are purposely trying to divide us into a class war and they do a wonderful job of it.
At the end of the day a two-year retirement addition on our ponzi SS might just be the spark neededto wake up the people here in Amerika.
Well, that they should have broiled the banksters (whom would probably taste great in a wine/cream sauce) doesn't make these ludicrous, gold-plated pensions, 30-hour work week and 7-weeks of vacation miraculously sustainable. So no, I will not be embracing the layabouts, thank you very much.
PS - I don't watch television. So drop dead.
I have been trying to drop dead for years with excessive smoking and drinking and it's not working. I'll just wait for the tanks to roll in and start tossing rocks at it. That ought to do it.
The french indeed have it good. I have to work 40 hours a week with 4 weeks vacation and no pension. There are layabouts in there no question. The point I am getting at is that the favored class is being brought out into the open and most of us are not the choosen.
Heh - that's funny, there. All good, fellow Doc.
BTW, you think you have it bad I work (in the US) for a French company!
No offense taken, but you drop dead too froggy. HAHAHA.
We just need to realize that 99% of us are not the oligarchs. We need to group together and take these fucks out of power when the timing is ripe. Otherwise these fucks will watch from their golden chairs while smoking their belly button lint while laughing as we clash against each other.
Froggy? Oh, that smarts, dude!
My only quibble here is that it's probably more like 99.99% who aren't part of the Beautiful People Club, but what's a few 100ths of a percent among fellow serfs, right?
Cheers -
Cheers to you docj. Sativa!!!!
Most french entrepreneurs work over 40 hrs per week with no vacation ! depends on what side you're in..
Aha! So this hole can be plugged by the French working less rather than more, if only the evil men trading the bits of paper could be held to account somehow.
Maybe they could be put on amphetamines or whatever, to run around like mad doing all the actual, you know, work, in the real economy, while the rest of the population pursues its hobbies, consumes its free health care, infects the worlds beaches, living on the back of the thusly enslaved securities traders. There must be hundreds of them after all. Plenty enough to keep the French in the lifestyle to which they are accustomed to being owed.