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Fraudclosure Update: The Crowd Is Getting Restless

Tyler Durden's picture


The US population is starting to get restless: investors are beginning to sue, there are protests over HAMP, and foreclosure probes are happening.

HAMP Protests

Washington Post: Economists: U.S. should remove top bank execs over foreclosure mess

Assured Guaranty Sues Deutsche Bank Over Mortgages

Assured said more than 83 percent of 1,306 defaulted loans examined in one of the transactions, ACE’s Home Equity Loan Trust, Series 2007-SL2, breached Deutsche Bank’s representations and warranties. In the second deal, Home Equity Loan Trust, Series 2007-SL3, 86 percent of the 1,774 loans breached the agreements, Assured said.

Faulty Foreclosures, by Adam Levitin

Bank of America Mulls Dividend Hike

U.S. probing foreclosure processing firms (uses the criminal word…)

Homeowner says Stern sent retaliatory letter

From the last must read article showing how desperate parties on both sides of the table are getting:

A lawyer for a homeowner who went to Florida's attorney general about a law firm's conduct in a foreclosure case claims the firm sent his client a "discriminatory and racially degrading" letter to frighten him into dropping the complaint.

The letter, which the homeowner asserts emanated from the Law Offices of David J. Stern in Plantation, was filed with a counterclaim to a foreclosure action brought by CitiMortgage in Miami-Dade Circuit Court.

Stern's attorney questioned the authenticity of the letter and said it was not authorized if it was generated by the law firm or by its back-office foreclosure processing business, DJSP Enterprises.

Jorge Porter and his attorney, John Herrera, said the letter arrived in the mail after Porter took complaints about his foreclosure to the state attorney general's office. Twelve homeowners are named in the attorney general's subpoena for Stern's records, and Porter is one of them.

The counterclaim filed on Porter's behalf characterizes the letter as "threatening, discriminatory and racially degrading" and also says it "threatened Porter with criminal action if he did not pay the total amount due to their client, CitiMortgage."

"This particular letter is a direct response to my client's allegations of fraud," Herrera said in an interview. "You can almost categorize that letter as extortion."

Some of the country's largest lenders stopped doing business with the law firm since early this month.
The letter to Porter dated Aug. 18 instructs him to vacate his home within 30 days or face eviction on an April foreclosure filing in the circuit court. But in a counterclaim filed with the court, Herrera raises 25 affirmative defenses to the foreclosure. One asserts CitiMortgage did not own or hold the mortgage when the action was filed. Herrera, who filed the letter Oct. 19 as a court exhibit accompanying Porter's counterclaim, sees the letter as an effort to frighten his client into withdrawing the complaint he filed with the attorney general.

Under a label "publication or dissemination is prohibited," the unsigned letter on Stern law firm stationery states, "You should be relieved to be able to live in a civilized society and not take for granted the many opportunities available to people like you here, instead of taking advantage of the system by continuing to occupy a property you don't legally owned [sic]."

"Frankly speaking, you seem to ignore how 'The Rule of Law' works in this Country," the letter states. "We therefore encourage you to educate yourself, as to what is 'legally' acceptable in the United States. The fact that you are a foreign national from a third world country doesn't excuse you from such ignorance."

The letter leaves a white gap for a signature above the typed words "Law Offices of David J. Stern."

Stern's attorney, Jeffrey Tew of Miami's Tew Cardenas, said a security officer at Stern's firm couldn't find the letter in the firm's database. Tew noted the foreclosure case number listed in the letter did not adhere to the firm's style.

"We have examined the letter. There appears to be some things about the letter that bring its authenticity into question, and, in any event, it wouldn't be an authorized letter from the law firm," Tew said.

A Pitney Bowes postage-meter number on the envelope traces back to Stern's offices, according to Herrera. He said Stern's representatives can examine the original, and he would make his computer databases available for inspection.

Herrera, a Coral Gables solo practitioner, contends CitiMortgage lacked standing to sue because Porter's mortgage was sold in 2005 by Mortgage Warehouse to ABN Amro Mortgage Group. He asserts CitiMortgage did not "own, hold or possess" the mortgage when the foreclosure was filed.

The counterclaim alleges slander of title, fraud, fraudulent misrepresentation, abuse of process, civil conspiracy, violation of Florida Consumer Collection Practices Act and violation of the Fair Debt Collection Act.

Court papers initially listed CitiMortgage as the mortgage servicer. A mortgage assignment from Mortgage Warehouse to CitiMortgage was executed Aug. 18, four months after the original foreclosure filing. Herrera called that "a legal impossibility."

'Fabricated Documents'

Herrera said Porter complained to the attorney general's office about the foreclosure earlier that month. On Aug. 10, Attorney General Bill McCollum announced the filing of subpoenas against Stern's firm and three others, claiming "fabricated documents" have been filed in foreclosure cases to oust homeowners.
The law firms say they committed no systemic wrongdoing.

The Aug. 18 date on the letter with the offensive language is the same date as the mortgage assignment.
"This 'sore losing' demeanor will not be tolerated any longer," the letter states. "You know the charges you have filed against our Law Firm are totally false, defamatory, unfounded as are also both embarrassing and shocking."

Porter said the letter came as a shock.
"He makes a major insult against me, my nationality, my ethnic background," Porter said. "Add this to all the humiliation of the foreclosure and everything I had been going through with the bank, it's just not right."

Porter moved to United States with his family when he was a child, settling first in New England before coming to Miami. He said the letter reminded him of something his grandmother used to say: "I'm too American to be Colombian and too Colombian to be American."

Porter, a real estate agent, said he was not going to let his home of 20 years go without a fight. But he said he could never get through to a lawyer at Stern's firm and was belittled by the staff when he called. He said they would purposely pronounce his first name Jorge as "whore."

"I would say, 'Ma'am, you are not being funny," Porter said. "They hung up on me so many times."

Loan Modification

He asserted he tried to work with CitiMortgage from the start. He worked on a loan modification and continued to make mortgage payments though he was in arrears on the $200,000 loan. He said CitiMortgage kept losing his paperwork and eventually his whole file. He said he rejected a modification packet that was mailed to him with different terms than were discussed. The foreclosure suit was filed a few weeks later.

Porter said he went to the FBI, the Federal Trade Commission and finally the state attorney general's office.

"This is the poster child case for the mess that we are in," Herrera said.   


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Tue, 10/26/2010 - 18:27 | 678927 Cdad
Cdad's picture

And somehow JPM finished up today.  WTF is going on!


Tue, 10/26/2010 - 18:41 | 678965 JGus
JGus's picture

No worries!

Chapter 2 of the Book of The Prophet Micah

 1 Woe to those who plan iniquity,
       to those who plot evil on their beds!
       At morning's light they carry it out
       because it is in their power to do it.

 2 They covet fields and seize them,
       and houses, and take them.
       They defraud a man of his home,
       a fellowman of his inheritance.

 3 Therefore, the LORD says:
       "I am planning disaster against this people,
       from which you cannot save yourselves.
       You will no longer walk proudly,
       for it will be a time of calamity.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 21:13 | 679297 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

I'm going to let you in on a secret.  Nothing will happen to them unless people intervene.  If you sit back and wait for God to take care of it for you, you will be disappointed.

I seriously hope that you are not schizophrenic, though it sounds like you probably are.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 21:15 | 679303 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Save the whales....Hong Kong.


Wed, 10/27/2010 - 00:49 | 679760 66Sexy
66Sexy's picture

i'm sure the elites love moral fiber. they eat it with the soft flesh of learned condition responses that allow them to take advantage of fools...


Wed, 10/27/2010 - 08:38 | 680108 themosmitsos
themosmitsos's picture






Wed, 10/27/2010 - 00:51 | 679766 66Sexy
66Sexy's picture

hey, bible quoters...

don't just sit there in a love trance... buy a fucking rifle.

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 07:27 | 679973 ArgentDawn
ArgentDawn's picture

Disillusioned 29 year old American with AK reporting as ordered!

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 08:11 | 680011 Optimusprime
Optimusprime's picture

An ability to quote the Bible is by no means incompatible with the ability to own, and know how to use, a rifle!  We must each reason and act as individuals.  Biblical quotes like the one in question have to do more with overall outcomes.  Peace.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 21:15 | 679304 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Save the whales....Hong Kong.


Tue, 10/26/2010 - 23:14 | 679605 Stormdancer
Stormdancer's picture

Of the content, two words "No worries!" are attributable to the poster himself.  The rest were quotes.  From two words you discern schizophrenia?  LOL!  Perhaps it is you who needs to take a look at just why such a post was capable of igniting such an emotional reaction in yourself :).  Just what is it you're so afraid of?

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 23:41 | 679649 Lower Class Elite
Lower Class Elite's picture

Well, for me, I tend to get a little anxious around people who believe in talking snakes, invisible men, ritualized proxy cannibalism, you know, crazy shit like that.

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 01:08 | 679785 atomicwasted
atomicwasted's picture


Although if you exclude the crazy shit, there are some decent and enduring truths in the Bible.  But you have to pick the raisins out of the cookie to get to them, as it were.

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 01:37 | 679817 Lower Class Elite
Lower Class Elite's picture


Wed, 10/27/2010 - 01:51 | 679828 Conrad Murray
Wed, 10/27/2010 - 14:27 | 681073 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

Emotional?  I was pretty dead pan.

"Call on God, but row away from the rocks."

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 01:04 | 679678 G-R-U-N-T
G-R-U-N-T's picture


Perhaps exorcising the Fraudclosure Beasts may be an effective tool...

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 06:47 | 679948 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

The christian god sold his son to pay for the debt(sin) of humans, if religious people followd his cue they would sell their children in slavery to pay for the social benefits of the democrats and have nots. Ha try beating this logic u religious morons !


The morale, if you try learning economy from the bible you go broke real fast

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 09:26 | 680238 aheady
aheady's picture


Wed, 10/27/2010 - 10:49 | 680445 Fed Supporter
Fed Supporter's picture

 1 Corinthians 1:27 

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

Isaiah 1:18

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 21:13 | 679298 illyia
illyia's picture

Hey JGus -

That was interesting! You junkeramers - please get a grip and take the morality where you find it. Don't discourage someone who is looking for justice.

Really... that's just the same attitude as the banksters have: "I'm right and the -*&^% with the rest of you!"

Bad ZHers (or at least, thoughtless).


Tue, 10/26/2010 - 22:53 | 679568 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture


Tue, 10/26/2010 - 23:47 | 679653 i-dog
i-dog's picture

I junked him because he is waiting for his imaginary friend to come and fix things for him (or to destroy the world). That's not the way we get things done in the real world!

We could still fix this mess, if people put down their holy fairy tales and started emailing their state representatives to secede from the cesspool.

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 00:17 | 679707 mtomato2
mtomato2's picture

You, sir, are hugely unworthy of your magnificent avatar.  Go be atheist all you want, but calling others names only weakens your position. 

It's very possible that you have no clue as to what the "Real World" actually is.

So please, continue to rant, and help me futher make my point.

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 10:52 | 680453 Fed Supporter
Fed Supporter's picture

2 Peter 3:9

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 00:14 | 679704 mtomato2
mtomato2's picture

Damn straight.  The fact that there are twenty junks for JGus at the time of my posting is testament to the fact that people are just getting ridiculously irrational.  And scared to death of divergent thinking.

Bad ZH'rs.  Indeed.

Junk away.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 21:18 | 679312 WouldaCouldaShoulda
WouldaCouldaShoulda's picture

Just stunning.  All day long they complain about all of the crap going on around them and when the truth is presented these bozos got no other response then to junk you.


Tue, 10/26/2010 - 21:25 | 679327 zen0
zen0's picture

The bold print says the punishment of the elite will be transgenerational.


I find it curious you were junked 11 times. All these people who seek the truth don't recognize it when they see it. They reject it out of hand.

The rational thing would be to acknowledge their ignorance and ignore it, taking an agnostic stand. But no, knee jerk junks.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 21:42 | 679362 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture

A-Men, If you belive there is no god, what is there to live for?

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 21:49 | 679375 HarryWanger
HarryWanger's picture

A-Men, If you belive there is no god, what is there to live for?

-Life, enjoy it.



Among a million other reasons.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 22:34 | 679385 Cdad
Cdad's picture


Tue, 10/26/2010 - 22:50 | 679558 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

Ha!!! Fantastic edit... but I believe your original post was the ever Christian-like "FN Moron"... was it not?  WWJD Cdad?

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 22:30 | 679468 geminiRX
geminiRX's picture

Yes, live life looking out for your own interests......this is why we are in shit debacle we are in.  

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 23:24 | 679620 Lower Class Elite
Lower Class Elite's picture

As opposed to living life in the interests of an invisible sky daddy who created and controls everything and yet somehow isn't responsible for the fucked up parts of his creation, and who also intentionally conveys what his interests are in arcane, obscure, often confusing ways so as to separate out those who are worthy of one day magically transforming into eternal praise-singing automatons from those who will suffer never-ending excruciating torture for all eternity.  Yes, that is much better.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 23:50 | 679670 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Hey, you got a problem with the flying spaghetti monster?

Me and you, buddy -- outside, now!

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 00:09 | 679695 Lower Class Elite
Lower Class Elite's picture

Whoa, hold up.  I fully acknowledge the power of the Noodly Appendage.  But He is backed up by FACTS.  Have you seen the charts on global average temperature versus number of pirates?  I rest my case.

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 00:00 | 679679 Minion
Minion's picture

To understand why the world has suffering, pain, and other degenerate parts, you must first understand perfection.  "My ways are higher than your ways and My thoughts are higher than your thoughts", says the LORD.

Consider it growing pains........... we are in this life as a test.  Sin causes death, but the Word created life, physically and spiritually, if you so choose....... 

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 01:45 | 679821 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Wouldn't the world be a better place is people simply followed the ten commandments?

Don't we want the world to be a better place?

The PTB want no God but the state.

ZH'ers are not nearly as unprogrammed as they think.

Else, why all the hate?

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 09:33 | 680252 TJ_is_annoyed
TJ_is_annoyed's picture


While I get the spirit of your question, I must answer with this:  "We" aren't actually under the 10 commandments any longer.  Jesus died to create a new, more perfect law: "God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,  has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;" (Hebrews 1:1-2), and this "Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron?  For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law." (Hebrews 7:11-12)

Not only that, but the 10 commandments were only given to the Jewish people. The Gentiles were never included in the old law.

This is not to say that the 10 commandments are not something to ignore, since they were improved upon in the New Testament (which we are all under).  Having said this, I will agree with the spirit of your message.

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 15:18 | 681230 Minion
Minion's picture

"Love God with all your heart, all your strength, and all your mind"

"Love neighbor as self"

Pretty much sums up the Law that Christ lived by and expected the faithful to keep.

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 15:17 | 681224 Minion
Minion's picture

It's taken 15 years of doing things my own way for me to realize that what you give is what you receive.  What you take is what eventually takes you.  On a long enough timeline, we all die - no one is perfect - because "cursed is the ground for your sake" said the LORD after man decided to do things his own way. 

If everyone had it easy, we would kill ourselves off.  War is always declared by those who live exalted lives. Remove predators in nature and the prey overbreed and oveconsume until they overshoot........ and COLLAPSE. 

The hidden message in the bible is that there is a way of peace on earth (the Ten Commandments, and their summary "Love God and Love Neighbor as Self" are the beginning).  We are given time to experience our own self-inflicted misery.  Those "fucked up parts" are man made, and man's thoughts are futile.  Look at history - no system of government has ever created peace, enduring happiness and abundance, and wisdom.  Entropy at its finest.  The theory (religion) of evolution is man's attempt to ignore the facts of natural decay whilst removing the consequences of sin - death. 

Man must experience this in order fully understand God.  That is the point of free will - we can't understand One higher if we don't even understand the futility of our own way.  You can't learn unless you're first humbled. 

No one can understand this unless they understand the way of enduring peace.  The bible is a coded book, only to be fully understood with the Spirit, which only comes to the humble who truly seek it out. 

Peace, my fellow ZH'ers.  :D

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 00:02 | 679682 geminiRX
geminiRX's picture

Replace "invisible sky daddy" in your previous statement with "Lloyd Blankfein" - and you will get my point completely:)

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 00:40 | 679751 Lower Class Elite
Lower Class Elite's picture

Touche!  It does fit nicely, huh?

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 02:08 | 679839 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

does this battle of the seen vs. the unseen (unresolved after millennia) illuminate the actual post on the possible turning of the tide in the mortgage fraud?

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 08:02 | 679994 doggings
doggings's picture

"invisible sky daddy"

great phrase, consider it "borrowed" :)


Tue, 10/26/2010 - 21:55 | 679383 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

It's fun.  There's a lot to do.  There's a lot to learn.  I like playing sports.  My college football team is pretty good most years.  My wife is pretty hot.  I have two awesome kids.  My daughter took off her training wheels a few weeks ago.  The weather has been awesome.  The kids are fired up about Halloween.  World Series starts tomorrow.  My parents are still in great health.  I have a cool group of friends.  I have a pretty good job.  Pandora radio is kick ass.  I haven't worn a tie in years, minus a funeral that I went to for my 94 year old grandmother... it was more of celebration than a funeral.  


I don't believe in fairy tales, the easter bunny, Santa Clause or any other silly religion.  If there is a god, he certainly didn't write the Torah or the new testament or the Koran... that is all just mediocre literature, at best.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 22:36 | 679488 geminiRX
geminiRX's picture

You're the perfect example of someone waiting to take the fall. Beware of idols.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 22:48 | 679550 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

Curious... what in my list of things that I appreciate about life would seem like idolatry?  My children?  My wife?  A good job that I work pretty hard at?  My alma matter's pretty good football team?  And do we know each other?  Isn't there some verse about "judge not lest thee be judged?"... While I certainly know a whole lot more about the history of Christianity than most Christians, I don't claim to know all scripture and verse... help me out... you seem to know your stuff.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 23:40 | 679645 Minion
Minion's picture

Funny thing is, most of what the world calls "Christianity" came out of Rome and Babylon - the symbols, holy days, even the attire of the Pope has roots in the first civilization after the flood.  If you don't believe the flood happened, call it the first civilization that the history books recorded.  :)

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 02:56 | 679864 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

Epic of Gilgamesh bitchez

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 23:47 | 679665 geminiRX
geminiRX's picture

Choosing what you believe and how to live was God's greatest gift to humanity - therefore I don't judge or quote scripture. It's wonderful that you cherish your family, have a job, have great health and work hard - these are great attributes.  When you put all your trust/hope in a spouse, a job, a kid, or personal health - it will disappoint or break you at some stage in your life.  

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 00:11 | 679700 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

Holy sheet... bad stuff might happen to me from time to time?  Thanks for the heads up... I have never experienced any bad stuff.  I must remember to turn towards god at some stage in my life... when stated bad stuff happens.  That bad stuff will be my clear signal that there is, in fact, a god.  


Thanks for recognizing my "great attributes", though I must admit, it seems a bit disingenuous as your previous post seemed almost too anxious to share the news of my pending doom.  Just wait, you punk... you'll get yours... though I'm sure I simply misread.

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 00:26 | 679724 geminiRX
geminiRX's picture

Dude, you sound stressed. I am thinking you have clearly misread. 

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 00:11 | 679689 Unlawful Justice
Unlawful Justice's picture

"faith" really means, no conclusive evidence of something; giving proof: demon-strative-evidence.


Wed, 10/27/2010 - 00:31 | 679737 G-R-U-N-T
G-R-U-N-T's picture

Faith = "undeceiving expectation"!



Wed, 10/27/2010 - 00:35 | 679741 G-R-U-N-T
G-R-U-N-T's picture

I expect not to be deceived...Which is impossible in this political environment.

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 00:31 | 679739 Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

70 tp 80 orbits then the dirt nap.     For ever.


Is that all there is for your awesome offspring too?


 Personally, I'm not entirely sure it's my responsiblity to "speak" to you.  If there is a God, (your's and my Creator), I will maintain belief He'll "speak" to you, even if only once or twice in your "time".


(Just be careful who you confide in if he ever does "speak" your name.)

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 23:22 | 679608 Betty Swallsack
Betty Swallsack's picture

Unbeknownst to me, there is a mayoralty campaign being run here.  And it reads much like a Hallmark card.  And none of it alma maters (psst, Latin IS a dead language).

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 23:35 | 679640 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

What does matter?  I'm all ears.  Vote for Pedro.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 22:33 | 679485 Windemup
Windemup's picture

Fine wine, pleasant conversation and a beautiful companion to share dinner with. Is that too much to ask?

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 22:49 | 679555 Desenstematic
Desenstematic's picture

Absolutly nothing...and if you get there 100% (not 99.9 --- must be 100%), it is utter freedom. Life becomes like a dream, only it is reality...a beautiful thing.

It isn't so complicated. It is just billions of simple things put together simply




Tue, 10/26/2010 - 23:08 | 679593 cowdiddly
cowdiddly's picture

They are already dead.

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 06:50 | 679952 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

"A-Men, If you belive there is no god, what is there to live for?" - I am thinking that every suicide bomber ask him self this exact question before pulling the trigger

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 22:09 | 679404 Hidetora
Hidetora's picture

People better recognize!  You mock The Word but it's telling you what's going down...and WILL go down!

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 23:26 | 679622 Betty Swallsack
Betty Swallsack's picture

It's 'bird', isn't it?  Bird is the word.  I knew it.  Glad that's settled.

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 00:22 | 679718 mtomato2
mtomato2's picture


I'm an actual Jesus-worshiper, and I found that last comment to be hilarious.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 23:28 | 679629 Lower Class Elite
Lower Class Elite's picture

Which "Word" was that again?  Yahweh's?  Allah?  Maybe Jehovah?  Odin?  Oooh, I hope it's Isis!  She was freaking HOT.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 23:53 | 679673 Minion
Minion's picture

The Word was (is) Jesus Christ before He bacame the Son of Man, to be killed for calling out the hypocritical religious leaders of that time.  Yahweh means simply "I AM"....... and Jesus said "Before the world became, I AM".  God names things what they are, and He is the Self-Existent (Eternal).  He did not come from space, He created it (this, too, is in the Bible).

But In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God....... there were two from the beginning. 

Allah has roots in the peoples who descended from the brother of Jacob, who carried the blood line of Israel (not the nation, the race who was captured by Assyria and taken into what is now central Europe about 2500 years ago). 

I know you're just mocking.  Pass it along.  :)

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 00:38 | 679750 Lower Class Elite
Lower Class Elite's picture

Well that certainly cleared things up. 

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 03:39 | 679886 fredquimby
fredquimby's picture


Wed, 10/27/2010 - 03:56 | 679898 merehuman
merehuman's picture

for shits sake you bible thumpers dont know even yourselves never mind god. A bunch of beliefs in your head dont make you holy or wise.

Book learning is all most of you got and most of you dont know shit about the "word" .Also referred to as the "bani" "bread of life" Audible sound current and on star wars it was called the force. It can be heard and entered into. having been there done that i feel i have responsibilty to straighten this out. I hate fucken religion because of the beliefs, which remove curiosity and personal experimentation, there fore  preventing discovery of the fact.

The fact that we live forever

that we have no substance

that the world we perceive is a mental creation

that all molecules are in motion, nothing is as solid as it appears

that few if any have the balls to attempt to leave their bodies, that less have the ability to live in both worlds succesfully but everyone wants to impress the other with their knowledge.

Dont believe me, experiment.Become selfaware of all your parts, manage emotions and CHOOSE your thoughts and where your attention is.

Its the same with the money and how its created. most dont want to know and lots of the junks are because this IS a Financial site.


Tue, 10/26/2010 - 23:47 | 679663 Minion
Minion's picture

It did a pretty good job of predicting the destruction of Tyre, Sidon, and Babylon (in modern Iraq, people won't even camp there overnight).  It also predicts that a "strong delusion" will fall on the world, and that many "antichrists" were already working in the time of the apostles.  By 375AD the council of Nicene outlawed the Sabbath and other "Jewish" holy days, and the Catholic (Roman) Church became official - married to governments and perhaps becoming "the harlot that sits on many waters"....  The day of rest was changed to the first day of the week, when prophets of Babylon worshiped the sun.........

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 00:21 | 679717 Triggernometry
Triggernometry's picture

How does this in any way relate to fraudulent foreclosures?

I will gladly make you a large sign with a religious passage if your choice, so long as you promise to picket it outside and never return to your computer.

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 00:29 | 679729 Minion
Minion's picture

Consider it a civilized response to an uncivilized attack.........

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 01:24 | 679804 Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

Ezra 9:6-7



Wed, 10/27/2010 - 01:28 | 679810 Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

Ezra 9:6-7



Wed, 10/27/2010 - 01:55 | 679831 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

I like you Minion.

You say "screw you" a lot more politely that I can manage.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 22:25 | 679453 tpberg7
tpberg7's picture

Disaster, Bitchez!

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 00:46 | 679759 66Sexy
66Sexy's picture

morality is a learned function so evil can thrive...


teach the sheep that they are sheep, so the wolves can be assured of a food source.


it's not religion... it's darwin. you've been taught to be weak and moral. therefore, you are consumed.


hey, it aint my book of evil. i didnt write it.

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 01:58 | 679834 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

And yet, Christianity has outlived every evil empire.

Darwin? Really?

Darwin liked survivors. Not assholes.

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 05:19 | 679918 66Sexy
66Sexy's picture

jesus is the sun, the 12 disciples are the 12 astrological signs. the sun is really pissed off right now and is sending gamma rays up our asses right now (or, crowns of thorns... oh, the irony).. google 'Sunspot group 1117'...

christianity is based on paganism and astrology; is infused with astrology (as historically nobilty was identified with) to lend legitimacy to a spoken king (which is, in fact, an illegitimizing consideration). a king, an ideology controlled by them. BUT..

read Mathew 21:12 (a DEFINITE legitimizing consideration, when taken in political hindsight)... there you will find the TRUTH... especially when considering the assasination of Kennedy (Executive Order 11110) and Lincoln (government issued currency).

sorry to say; theres no snakes; religious abstractions; burning bushes....

it's all just about -- controlling the money supply. 


i.e. 666 is a reference to currency control.

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 09:28 | 680242 Jager06
Jager06's picture

After over 17 years as a professional soldier, I am not weak. I make dead people. I believe in Jesus and the Bible. If you do some research, you will see that the average age for Delta Force (1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-D) is 33, with 2 children and a devotion to Christianity.

The very religion you slander in your freedom is the one most adhered to by virtue of experience with death by those who maintain your freedoms.

From the safety if your cubicle there can be no God. You havent been promoted high enough to have room for Him in your cubicle.

I find that the physical discomforts associated with my chosen profession usually lead to a sense of understanding that surpasses the common knowledge I might have attained without ever going hungry, sleep deprived or walking 20 miles with a broken leg and a rather large backpack.

Of course, your mileage may vary.

Back on topic, between the claims of voter fraud arising, and the mortgage mess, we may be in for some very unstable times as soon as next week.

Water-Food-Guns-Ammo-Shelter-Medicines-Money (not Currency)

Enjoy your day. I know someone who died for it to be a good one.




Wed, 10/27/2010 - 14:02 | 681002 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

Isn't it odd how your devotion to Christ supports your ability to kill with no regret?  It is almost like those suicide bombers no?  Does the lord give you strength to make the ultimate sacrifice for your version of the truth?

You should look into Buddhism.  That philosophy will help you embrace your existence and become a more perfect trained killer, much like the Samurai.

There are plenty of Atheists in foxholes, this is just an example of one group.

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 01:05 | 679772 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

The Bible was written based upon observation of human nature; not just Yaweh, God, Jesus, etc.

Would it salve your religiophobic hearts to weave in a modern saying?

"What goes around comes around."

Is that better?

Please have some tolerance for faith, religion, and ancient wisdom will 'ya!?!?

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 04:02 | 679901 merehuman
merehuman's picture

I like " a rolling stone gathers no moss" and "much gathers more" as well as "loss leads to greater loss.

But my favorite is "know thyself" which can be achieved by "being moderate in all things" grandma likes"up your bucket"

free, you pick 

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 01:08 | 679783 Coldfire
Coldfire's picture

A calamity of literally Biblical proportions is actually happening now. Interesting to read about it in a book thousands of years old.

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 01:24 | 679805 66Sexy
66Sexy's picture

cant deny revelation is hitting close to home now; if you consider 666 is currency... not to mention Mathew 21:12.. y' know, the one about 'overturning the tables of the moneychangers'....

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 19:29 | 679025 Betty Swallsack
Betty Swallsack's picture

What could happen, is that there will be a forced MBS "bailout" of between $2 and $7 trillion sometime just after the mid-term (s)elections, up to the new year.  It will be rammed through by your corrupt Congress.  Think TARP here.  And just like TARP, this MBS bailout will probably be passed on a weekend while you're all consumed with Thanksgiving, and then with Christmas after that.

Meanwhile, the lamestream media is pushing the belief (propaganda) that it is foreclosures that are the problem.  Nope.  They're the symptom of the MBS fraud being perpetrated by the banksters. 

Also expect the US dollar to be truly worthless by this time next year.  Let me just say that you have another "comfortable" six months until the S finally hits the fan.  Between now and then, it'll be...."interesting".

2 Gs for gold and $150 barrel of oil and 5 bucks a gallon (or 6, or 7) for gas coming to a shafting near you.  Weeeeeee.

U.S. slips to historic low in global corruption index

The United States has dropped out of the "top 20" in a global league table of least corrupt nations, tarnished by financial scandals and the influence of money in politics, Transparency International said on Tuesday.

Somalia was judged the most corrupt country, followed by Myanmar and Afghanistan at joint second-worst and then by Iraq, in the Berlin-based watchdog TI's annual corruption perceptions index (CPI).

The United States fell to 22nd from 19th last year, with its CPI score dropping to 7.1 from 7.5 in the 178-nation index, which is based on independent surveys on corruption.

Funny how Afghanistan is labeled as very corrupt when the US, according to it's puppet-placed leader, Karzai, that he receives millions of dollars in cash from Iran, adding that Washington gives him "bags of money" too because his office lacks funds.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 23:26 | 679625 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

Interesting.  Getting to the bottom of this, is like finding out who killed JFK. This was probably some kind of false flag event. One thing is for sure. Many of the counter culture people of that day , at least the leadership were all agents for the CIA. That much is known and they have freely admitted it. It is weird that someone would give the order to fire on unarmed students. Just aiming at the crowd and pulling the trigger. If they found men to do that , back then, think about what they can tell them today to do to us. Maybe they were testing to see if they could have NG fire on students and see if they would do as ordered.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 23:54 | 679674 i-dog
i-dog's picture

"probably some kind of false flag event."

Interesting thought! ... my early model tinfoil hat didn't pick up on that one!

That could well be the case: "The voting machines are playing up, so we have decided to postpone the election [until after we have cleaned you all out]". Let's wait and see.........

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 00:28 | 679727 mtomato2
mtomato2's picture

Back to business.

I've been predicting an election "postponement" c.2010 for about eight months now.  I've never seen so many incumbents so unconcerned about their jobs as I do this cycle.  They've only got a couple days left to pull something off.  Wonder what it could be?

Tinfoil *OFF*


But, seriously...

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 20:38 | 679214 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

Yeh and the fact that the republicans will win back the house, won't make one good damn either. This whole thing makes me sick. What will it take to make people get in the street like the French or the Greeks?  What will it take? Frankly , the day this crap is voted on and passed by these republicans , is the day rebellion should start.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 20:43 | 679229 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

What will it take? An iPhone and iPad outage.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 20:47 | 679239 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

wifi causes brain tumors...



Tue, 10/26/2010 - 20:53 | 679260 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

Which explains the last 3 national elections....

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 21:24 | 679321 oddjob
oddjob's picture

...... then supersize them with your cordless phone.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 21:30 | 679339 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

I think it is cool to have a Bluetooth ear piece. Makes you look important. Plus it helps to scramble the brain waves in the user. Of course, you have to remove it when you are in a school zone. 

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 22:35 | 679491 Windemup
Windemup's picture

good thing my black bakelite dialing phone still gets a dial tone.

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 00:30 | 679731 mtomato2
mtomato2's picture


Western Electric RULES!!!

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 22:34 | 679487 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

They tried to mobilize, they tried to fight, but they were junked before they could get organized...;-)

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 23:46 | 679662 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

High Plains, unfortunately the kind of rebellion you are hoping for will be a rebellion of thugs and arson and looting and rape and fire and mayhem.

Nothing as scary like an angry crowd, feeling dis-enfranchised.

I'm struggling though, to see how it can/may be different. Can it? Anyone?

A peaceful transition for here to there?

"head shake" Nope, cannot see it.

Messiah rising? Maybe. 

I can hear it, smell it, all the way here.... like a mad lot of bees...




Wed, 10/27/2010 - 02:07 | 679838 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture


The masses do not rebel for political reasons.

I do believe all the great revolutions have come about as a reaction to famine.

If you want to speed things up, cause shortages at the grocery store...or the foodstamp program.

Just sayin...

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 21:10 | 679293 DosZap
DosZap's picture


If the GOP, and Tea Party candidates pull out a Double, no way they allow this to happen, if Obama does it anyway, Civil War.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 21:33 | 679341 Betty Swallsack
Betty Swallsack's picture

Phooey!  ALL were complicit in all the bailouts (TARP, AIG, CITI, GM, et al).  Don't be fooled into thinking that there is a left/right paradigm.  This is about enslavement and control....of you!  The plan is almost complete.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 21:55 | 679368 kayl
kayl's picture

Asymmetrical Warfare in the Mill Wars Based on UCC Practice II

I'd like to discuss the private and public battlefields where the Mill wars are taking place and present the “controlled opposition” Mills that are rarely presented in the MSM. Filing a UCC 1 Financing Statement is the primary and legal way to claim yourself as the CREDITOR of the DEBTOR corporate fiction. It gives the filer a legal standing to manage his own commercial affairs.

It is your job to read UCC Article 9 thoroughly, which governs the statutes in filing a UCC 1 Financing Statement. Let the UCC statutes and the Black’s Law Dictionary be your guides.

For my first article on the Mill wars, read Asymmetrical Warfare in the Mill Wars Based on UCC Practice at


Synopsis of Part I

All debt-notes are borrowed into existence. If no one (living individual) walked into the bank and signed as an accommodation party, not one bank loan would be made. The bank is the physical place where money is created, but it is a fiction and cannot do anything on its own.

The typical description of how banks operation hides a slight of hand.

1. An individual walks into the bank and signs an application (which means to beg under the law). He becomes a debtor.

2. He sells the promissory note to the bank.

UCC Section 9-102 Definitions

(28) "Debtor" means:

(B) a seller of accounts, chattel paper, payment intangibles, or promissory notes; or

3. The bank gives him debt-notes (a promise to pay). The debt-notes are placed on the debit side of the ledger.

"Then, bankers discovered that they could make loans merely by giving their promises to pay, or bank notes, to borrowers."

Modern Money Mechanics

4. What do banks receive when they make a loan?

"What they do when they make loans is accept promissory notes in exchange for credits to the borrowers' transaction accounts."

Modern Money Mechanics

5. Due to double entry accounting, the bank receives credit in the borrower's transaction account. This is the credit side of the ledger to balance the debit. The Federal Reserve credits the borrower's account to make the bank's balance sheet whole. The credit comes from the borrower's exemption account maintained at the Treasury.

The borrower creates the money and discharges the debt through his own accounts. Then, the loan becomes an asset to the bank. The bank gave no consideration, but the borrower is supposed to pay back his own credit plus interest.

This is called OPM (Other People’s Money), and the banks are hooked on it.

Private and Public Battle Fields

The bankers and lawyers are not twiddling their thumbs. This economic crisis has spearheaded an all out war to strip the American people of their homes and assets. This is the private sphere in which the war is being playing out. People are being foreclosed because they don’t understand the Uniform Commercial Code that enforces the mortgage contracts unless the DEBTOR is able to rebut the presumption that the mortgage loan contract is valid.

In an Equity court only paper speaks. Since two corporations are battling it out, the corporation that continues to produce supporting documents wins. The claims and defenses brought to the court by the homeowner or borrower must not only support a valid claim, but they must also fall under the color of law.

For example, the defendant would argue that the loan was a fraudulent contract, having uncovered the misrepresentation of the mortgage loan contract. The defendant would argue that the foreclosure was fraudulent, because it did not adhere to legal requirements of assignment.

However, with knowledge of the debt-based monetary system--that paper is paper--that a paper loan must be discharged with paper, the DEBTOR accepts for value the banks claim and returns it for discharge, settlement, and closure of the account.

It is the DEBTOR’s duty, and he feels it is his duty, to discharge the debt of the contract by  “paying” off the mortgage loan with a negotiable instrument drawn on the exemption (credit) account at the US Treasury. The defendant discharges the debt by filing a UCC 1 form, and then sending the three pieces of paper and the SF5510 form to the Treasury and the bank. Technically, the Affidavits that show a discharge of debt are truth in fact in the courtroom.

Duty plays a big role in the Common Law and the UCC. A duty is considered a higher degree of integrity than a “right.” You may have a right, but you have a DUTY to uphold your end of the contract. This duty is a belief in oneself, and therefore a colorable action for the court. (Lawyers please attack me here. Your input may clarify these statements even better. I’m swimming in the concept of a colorable action in defense of a claim.)

At the public level, US government has passed or is trying to pass crimpling legislation that reaches directly into the pockets of the taxpayers.  The Cap and Trade legislation was shot down after scandal hit regarding the accuracy of the scientific data supporting global warming. The Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) of 2008 bailed out the banks to the tune of $700 Billion. The Patient Protection and Affordability Act of March 2010 and the follow on bill HR4872 are medical reform bills written by the lobbyists of the medical insurance and pharmaceutical industries. They will add heavy liabilities to the American people. As of this writing 10/24/2010, the national debt clock shows $122,324 owed by every US Income Tax payer.

The gamesmanship on the part of the government to pile up the Public Debt in all of its components, whether it is the trade deficit or entitlements, is a direct taxation on the American people. Without our knowledge (since none of the bills were ever read by our congressmen) and consent, the US government is stripping the wealth of taxpayers for many generations to come in the public sphere as well.

This public drubbing is the direct result of our adhesion contracts. In this case, the birth certificate is a receipt evidencing a debt. The US Treasury sold the birth certificate to the Federal Reserve in return for a sum of “money.” The Federal Reserve has a purchase money security interest in the bond. The social security number is the property of the US government. It is another adhesion contract. Through this number, our labor is pledged as the surety and guarantor of the debt-based monetary system and the balance sheet of the US government. The assumption that you are the surety and guarantor of the US government is enforceable, unless you rebut the assumption.

The preceding paragraphs describe the public battlefield where the Mill wars are very evident. There is another aspect of the Mill wars that is less talked about. It’s the “controlled opposition,” the unscrupulous businesses that are ostensibly helping the Man on the Land regain his rights as a Sovereign and as a free man. About twenty or thirty years ago and parallel with the banker activity, new social movements were established like the Freeman in Montana, the Tax protester movement, and the Redemption movement. The basic premise of each group is that the government is stealing our money. People are barred from their natural right to live in the Common Law, and they are being subjugated to cash confiscatory statutes that enrich the cities, states, and Federal governments, in addition to companies such as banks, utility companies, insurance, and hospitals and so on, who are driving up costs and extracting exorbitant fees.

The Redemption and Freeman Mills are all over the internet. You can buy a redemption manual for about $120. However, the controlled opposition mills are intended to bring people into dishonor. It is a trap just like all the mortgage loans. Their purpose is twofold.

First, the Controlled Opposition Mills validate people’s anger against the fraudulent government and businesses. They provide an outlet for disinformation that people are willing to dump their money into. It’s a business whose sole purpose is to fill the customer with BS about Redemption or the Uniform Commercial Code and hang him out to dry.

Second, the Controlled Opposition Mills create a whole new source of violators of the currency or taxing laws. They create more felons out of unsuspecting debtors. If you look into the prison industry, you know well that the Corrections Corporation of America is making profits and expanding. They are directly plugged into the exemption account of each debtor. Every month they get “paid” large sums of money to keep prisoners, who themselves are maintained in deplorable conditions. The redemption mills are truly a nightmare. On one freedom site, the UCC 1 Financing Statement form is so severely truncated that if you used it, you would be registering yourself as a debtor for the rest of your life. The entire section for the CREDITOR does not appear.

The manuals themselves are filled with truth, half-truth, and outright lies. They are designed to strip you of “money” and leave you in a prison cell. If you don’t read the Uniform Commercial Code directly yourself, you will not be able to see the truth floating in a stream of garbage.

The first step is to comprehend the meaning of a corporate fiction. What is it? You have been responsible for it your entire life, and you’ve tried to “pay” your debts like an honest man in the Common Law. The corporate fiction is a Ces qui te Trust created for you. It is represented by your name in all capital letters. Your birth certificate has another date on it besides your birthday under Date accepted for Registration. That is the day the Ces qui te Trust was created. My birth certificate is a bit older. It has a stamp on the side indicating a date two days after my birthday. The all caps name is defined from Black’s Law Dictionary below:

Capitis Diminutio Maxima  Black’s Law Dictionary 4th Edition

The highest and most comprehensive loss of status. This occurred when a man’s condition changed from one of freedom to one of bondage, when he became a slave. It swept away with it all rights of citizenship and all family rights.

There should be no dismay remaining as to why our government, bankers, and major corporations take advantage of our pocket books, pass punishing legislation, take over the instruction of our children, impose health directives (like mandatory flu immunizations), and so on. Out of lack of awareness, we’ve neglected to attend to the law and have unwittingly volunteered our property and bodies to a governing agency.

I’ve been challenged many times to prove the existence of the US Treasury Exemption (credit) account. Is it really so hard to imagine that the US Treasury exemption (credit) account is the credit side matching the debit side of the social security account? In any accounting system, there’s always a matching debit/credit account. Imagine that we still lived in a money system backed by intrinsic value of gold and silver. If this were the case, all the money we deposited in the Social Security account is a debit—extra money that is held by the Social Security Administration for us. Consequently, the credit side would be the liabilities that the government pays out in social security or disability payments to us.

However, when we look at the debt-based monetary system, the debit side is our liabilities—the debt-notes piled up from being deposited to the Social Security account. The credit side corresponds to all the credit we have created as accommodating/accommodation parties (the signatures we have sold to the banks) and which has been withheld from us since Day 1.

The research shows that the US Treasury exemption account is indexed by the same number as the social security account, but without the dashes. Through structural symmetry and accounting principles of debit/credit, we know the US Treasury account exists. It also explains why we are so broke. The Federal Reserve as the receiver of the US government has been withholding our credit that represents the physical and mental labor that we have exerted in the economy.

This is a debt war going on. So far the people are on the ropes.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 21:56 | 679387 Cdad
Cdad's picture

 A tactic as if from the Yahoo Message boards.



Tue, 10/26/2010 - 21:56 | 679388 Cdad
Cdad's picture

 A tactic as if from the Yahoo Message boards.



Tue, 10/26/2010 - 22:11 | 679421 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

@kayl, good work / nice job.

Remember folks, he (or she) who (whom?) is most committed, wins.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 22:27 | 679460 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

" 'Been in debt since conception "


" 'In - and - out "

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 00:04 | 679686 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Thanks Kayl. I'd call this yeoman's work. Hope all American's are paying attention.

Since this is clearly a British invention, I wonder if India has a similar system...

Must find out...

Makes perfect sense to me... FED/IRS illegal tango...



Wed, 10/27/2010 - 02:27 | 679853 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Have you done any of this?  If so, when is the IRS filing a lien on your property(s) for Tax Evasion?

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 15:18 | 709049 kayl
kayl's picture


You've got this completely wrong. I'm not protesting presentments or bills of any kind. I'm embracing them. I accept for value everything---taxes, property taxes, fines from the city, and returning for discharge. The instructions for discharge of debt are found at UCC 3-501 (a) (b) 1,2,3.


Tue, 10/26/2010 - 22:40 | 679520 merehuman
merehuman's picture

Betty knows!

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 09:38 | 680260 aheady
aheady's picture

Indeed she does!

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 22:27 | 679461 Dburn
Dburn's picture

If the GOP, and Tea Party candidates pull out a Double, no way they allow this to happen, if Obama does it anyway, Civil War.


Wed, 10/27/2010 - 01:18 | 679799 atomicwasted
atomicwasted's picture

Americans are too passive for civil war.  I think that's a good thing, because who wins a civil war is not he with the best ideas, but he who is the most brutal.  Better to let the rotten system collapse and try to start afresh than to fight over who gets to be the despot of the wreckage.

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 02:11 | 679841 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Fat people do not rebel.

Hungry people do.

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 02:27 | 679854 Clampit
Clampit's picture

Close, hungry children's parents do.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 20:58 | 679273 El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

.... and somehow $Natgas is up 45 cents tonight?

  flash tick?..

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 22:21 | 679449 SpeakerFTD
SpeakerFTD's picture

That's just the roll from the Nov contract to Dec, although it seems a day early, since Nov does not expire until tomorrow.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 21:05 | 679282 jbc77
jbc77's picture

Thats what I'm saying. This is a financial nuclear bomb and the markets continue to grind.  If it wasn't before, it should be crystal clear that our capital markets are fully controlled and manipulated by the fed. They are driving the markets period.

I believe we are going to see a real crisis of confidence in the general public, sheeple, rather soon that will pale in comparison to the subprime/bank bailout crisis.

We're at the point where the main stream media is trying to play make believe, as if nothing is wrong. It's surreal to bear witness to this.

I mean this will be swept under the rug or it won't........thats the question on all our minds- when will this thing REALLY break.....and break the markets with it. This levitation act is else can these markets be holding up. It's like a this real????!!!??

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 21:13 | 679300 DosZap
DosZap's picture

I believe we are going to see a real crisis of confidence in the general public, sheeple, rather soon that will pale in comparison to the subprime/bank bailout crisis.


Not to worry, J6P, and his/her 401k's, are clueless.............they have no idea sites, or info like this is available and would not believe it if they read it.

Trust me,the ones out there with good jobs, are working 40-80hrs a week, and have NO CLUE.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 22:06 | 679416 Arius
Arius's picture

on unrelated news...Gartman of the gartman paper is buying calling gold a bubble from 300$ all the way up.

to be sincere, i pause and it can be smt of perhaps to be people are throwing in the got to be very bad...

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 18:27 | 678930 surfsup
surfsup's picture

Really Insane Corruption Ongoing

Rise In Consciousness Overall

Risk Is Closer Onward


Tue, 10/26/2010 - 18:34 | 678938 Cognitive Dissonance
Tue, 10/26/2010 - 20:38 | 679217 nmewn
nmewn's picture

They have now run out of internal crony's.

Check this out;

"UPDATE:Phacil has changed their job description on their website (without making a note), however here is a link to another job description for the same job that still uses the above as a qualification. They also have not yet returned calls to The Examiner. The side by side comparison of the old and modified versions are at the bottom of this post.

This means that the entire OFS, which is tasked with overseeing the Troubled Asset Relief Program, is trying to hire people who will withhold information from release to the public."

The beat goes on...but they got busted on this one ;-)

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 18:29 | 678936 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

For the first time I am seriously considering not making my mortgage payment from this point on, but rather putting it in escrow along with the inevitable penalty they will want to charge me. I figure they won't even report me as overdue until 3 to 6 months if then.

And even if they did, I've made all the credit purchases I want to for the next 5 years so they can stuff their FICO score where the sun don't shine.

Who else out there is considering such a move?

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 18:33 | 678944 Cdad
Cdad's picture

If I had a mortgage right now, I might consider it.  In my case, I have a CC bill I might just light up.

It is not as if my own moral sense says that this is the correct thing to do.  However, it comes down to defunding the criminal element in our country, these f'n mega banks, that would allow me to consider your suggestion.

And after that, Uncle Sam.

This will be the source of our new revolution, I believe.



Tue, 10/26/2010 - 19:06 | 679035 Neo
Neo's picture

Walking away from a bunch of CC debt was extremely hard to do, morally. But as you watch the liars and crooks all around you being given your, your children and grandchildren's productive output (money) the pill becomes much much easier to swallow.

Fuck'em,it's all monopoly money anyway.

Shrug and walk away, learn to live on cash. Credit is the ball and chain we attach to ourselves in an attempt to keep up with the Jones. Keep one low limit card for convenience and when the tide mysteriously goes out, max it out with protein and lead and head for higher ground.

(if it weren't for calculators, I'd never get to post..damn that public education)

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 20:39 | 679221 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

Walk away huh? Have you ever dealt with Citibank?



Tue, 10/26/2010 - 21:19 | 679311 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Cities & Muni's, are SEIZING folks homes for not paying prop txes, and or Utility bills............

Can you believe that shit?.

They are hiring THUGS(Collection Agencies), and sending them after their residents!.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 21:16 | 679307 Rich_Lather
Rich_Lather's picture

One look at the census numbers on income vs. average house prices in my area convinced me to save for a downpayment in 2003. A second look in 2004 convinced me to get out of debt and save to buy a house with cash when this all breaks apart. It's not done yet.

Ruining your credit in the face of a deflation calamity is not a good strategy, but if you want to follow the herd of lemmings off the cliff, I'm not here to stop you.

When the bottom hits, and everyone is tapped out, both of credit and cash, you will wish you had not lived for the moment. Frugality is necessary as the dollar is still the coin of the realm.


Tue, 10/26/2010 - 23:32 | 679635 Betty Swallsack
Betty Swallsack's picture

Don't worry about kids or grandkids.  My one-step program will put a stop to all of that!  It's called, 'Cease Breeding'.  That's right.  Bag that thing.  That'll show those liars and crooks.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 20:27 | 679194 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture comes down to defunding the criminal element in our country, these f'n mega banks, that would allow me to consider your suggestion.

Yep, it is becoming a matter of self-defense.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 20:49 | 679243 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Now Sir Richmond,

If you recently went into debt buying a new car and a plasma know morally...I do not support you.

But if you are like most, working through, charging food and gas, as Wall Street primes the CME profit pump..well, that is the distiction.

As for that, I suppose "Average Joe" is figuring out who he is and acting accordingly.  For the evidence of bank corruption is voluminous.

Hi ho...and f JPM.

Cdad was here....


Tue, 10/26/2010 - 21:08 | 679285 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Been working and saving for my own retirement more than 30 years.  The Fed is going to steal my savings from me by printing it into oblivion.  The banks are stealing it from me by having CONgress point a gun at me and by trying to asset-strip me.  Atlas is ready to shrug, and when the takers come to insist they might get a surprise.

When the rule of law is suspended or is totally ineffective, we revert to Locke:

Want of a common judge with authority, puts all men in a state of nature: force without right, upon a man's person, makes a state of war, both where there is, and is not, a common judge.


Tue, 10/26/2010 - 21:18 | 679310 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Then Sir Richmond,

I withdraw my comment.  For what you are talking about is converting from $ to useful material things.  And on that count, I am with you.

Be it gold, ammunition, property [without debt], stored food...on these counts, you are correct.  And it is on these counts that we all will put the screws to Hong Kong...without regret.


Tue, 10/26/2010 - 21:25 | 679328 DosZap
DosZap's picture


 there is NO such thing as property without debt.

In normal times it's a great investment,if the location is right.

But, in the NEW world, the taxes, and fees for owniing property outright is/could be a Lose/Lose prop.

I have been debt free, and own everything outright,have for several years.Right now, I wish I did not own my home.For the same reasons.

I just paid my tax bill for the house today, it was not cheap.

But, I fear after this is over, I may not be able,nor even want to won it.The costs may be way too damn high.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 21:59 | 679397 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Listen you [probably] Chicom,

There is property without debt.  What, are you stupid?

Is there debt...of course.  Again, are you stupid or communist?  I leave that to you.

As for fearing folk won't pay you taxes...I think you might actually fear that.  Those are your bonds, after all. 

For a small fee, I will advise you on your bond portfolio. 

Let me know....

[Hope you don't own CA, IL, or MI...but I suppose you do....................

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 22:10 | 679429 wisefool
wisefool's picture

That is the terrible aspect of all this. The property taxes will follow every asset that exists as long as the "owner" has the ability to pay. Especially those who own things free and clear. Because that indicates that you are not subjecting yourself. License plate fees are absurd, considering in my area we already pay exorbitant gasoline taxes and insurance. If you are un/under-employed but have any type of equity in assets you will not qualify for any relief. But most of those 40 Million people drive away in nice vehicles after using their food stamps at the grocery store.

There really seems to be only two paths for the average ethical person moving forward.

1) Slave at a job, Slave (or pay a slave) on figuring out creative tax vehicles. Horde value in something you think will hold value but is not overly conspicuous or easy to steal (by private or public entities).  Be a generally nice person but don't get to know people too well lest get drug into bad future situations. And wait for this thing to blow. or blow over.

2) Go Dark. Quit or scale down career responsibilities, income, and time on task. Become as poor as you you can so a) nobody tries to steal from you -and- b) you can legitimately qualify for programs. Use your extra time to enjoy life without money. This will help you be tolerant if this thing blows up. If it does not blow up, you will have lost cycles in game, but you can make up for it with plan 1.

The option that is not there anymore (atleast for me) is the 1980s middle class life path. The 45 hours on the job. 10 hours commuting. Having the extra and newer vehicles. The Midsized home. The vacations. The dining out. The club memberships. etc.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 22:36 | 679501 Cdad
Cdad's picture

All but that last paragraph....

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 22:50 | 679559 wisefool
wisefool's picture

Are you saying you agree/empathize with all but the last paragraph? Or that you disagree with all but the last paragraph?


Also, what is the Hong Kong literal you keep using in your posts? Is it actually posters people/government of hong kong you are arguing against or a metaphor that I have not been here long enough to understand?

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 22:51 | 679563 merehuman
merehuman's picture

i did #2. , went dark except for the computer. I stay home , tend to my lady, dogs and garden. Never had it better cept for no income but am set for  the new day coming. Now waking other folks up is my biggest job.

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 01:21 | 679800 Coldfire
Coldfire's picture

Hong Kong is as capitalistic now as the U.S. was in its heyday. Why would we want to put the screws to Hong Kong? Philosophically, Hongkongers are more American than America.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 21:53 | 679377 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

May I suggest a Remington 870 tactical 12 gauge loaded up with buckshot?  Good for close up work. Aim for the balls, that way you miss the vest......

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 23:02 | 679586 merehuman
merehuman's picture

Mr Mosby is nearby, tho i fear not, its  good to be prepared.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 23:32 | 679634 Unlawful Justice
Unlawful Justice's picture

Another is wasp & hornet killer from the home improvement store. Spay bottle Shoots up to 27 feet, aim for the eyes and mouth.  Causes instant problems breathing that requires immediate medical attention from a Doctor or death will ensue. $2.77 a can.  Think of it as pepper spray for Revolution.

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 02:01 | 679836 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

Thanks for that very useful tip - one more case of 'something' to crowd my garage - my neighbors gotta be thinking I'm out of my mind - best stop opening the garage door - my wife thinks I'm that Dreyfus actor in Close Encounters - better keep her out off the garage too - if she really knew how well prepped we are she'd send me to a psych doctor. Note to self, need good slingshots and crossbows, buy several cases, find room in garage, and disable garage door opener.

Off subject, but a question asked several weeks ago about where to hide gold. I read this somewhere several years ago and haven't seen it recently. Bottom layer of cat box, covered with cat sand - if you don't have a cat, get 'topping' from a neighbor to make it look real. Most won't go digging in a cat box looking for gold. If you have silver, it gets difficult as you accumulate more - how do you justify a cat box in every room without raising suspicion?

Thanks to all ZHrs for your discussions that have expanded my thinking (or brought me to my madness -- I hope that old saying of "if you can question your sanity your are still sane" is still in vogue with the psych Drs, that way I'll get out soon).

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