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Fraudclosure Update: The Crowd Is Getting Restless
The US population is starting to get restless: investors are beginning to sue, there are protests over HAMP, and foreclosure probes are happening.
HAMP Protests
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/26/homeowners-protest-hamp-i_n_773582.html
Washington Post: Economists: U.S. should remove top bank execs over foreclosure mess
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/political-economy/2010/10/economists_remove_the_senior_l.html
Assured Guaranty Sues Deutsche Bank Over Mortgages
http://noir.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=ada1QmQYr_BI
Assured said more than 83 percent of 1,306 defaulted loans examined in one of the transactions, ACE’s Home Equity Loan Trust, Series 2007-SL2, breached Deutsche Bank’s representations and warranties. In the second deal, Home Equity Loan Trust, Series 2007-SL3, 86 percent of the 1,774 loans breached the agreements, Assured said.
Faulty Foreclosures, by Adam Levitin
http://www.creditslips.org/creditslips/2010/10/faulty-foreclosures.html
Bank of America Mulls Dividend Hike
http://www.thestreet.com/story/10893231/1/bank-of-america-mulls-dividend-hike.html?cm_ven=GOOGLEN
U.S. probing foreclosure processing firms (uses the criminal word…)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/25/AR2010102505731.html
Homeowner says Stern sent retaliatory letter
http://www.dailybusinessreview.com/PubArticleDBR.jsp?id=1202473895545&Homeowner_says_Stern_sent_retaliatory_letter
From the last must read article showing how desperate parties on both sides of the table are getting:
A lawyer for a homeowner who went to Florida's attorney general about a law firm's conduct in a foreclosure case claims the firm sent his client a "discriminatory and racially degrading" letter to frighten him into dropping the complaint.
The letter, which the homeowner asserts emanated from the Law Offices of David J. Stern in Plantation, was filed with a counterclaim to a foreclosure action brought by CitiMortgage in Miami-Dade Circuit Court.
Stern's attorney questioned the authenticity of the letter and said it was not authorized if it was generated by the law firm or by its back-office foreclosure processing business, DJSP Enterprises.
Jorge Porter and his attorney, John Herrera, said the letter arrived in the mail after Porter took complaints about his foreclosure to the state attorney general's office. Twelve homeowners are named in the attorney general's subpoena for Stern's records, and Porter is one of them.
The counterclaim filed on Porter's behalf characterizes the letter as "threatening, discriminatory and racially degrading" and also says it "threatened Porter with criminal action if he did not pay the total amount due to their client, CitiMortgage."
"This particular letter is a direct response to my client's allegations of fraud," Herrera said in an interview. "You can almost categorize that letter as extortion."
Some of the country's largest lenders stopped doing business with the law firm since early this month.
The letter to Porter dated Aug. 18 instructs him to vacate his home within 30 days or face eviction on an April foreclosure filing in the circuit court. But in a counterclaim filed with the court, Herrera raises 25 affirmative defenses to the foreclosure. One asserts CitiMortgage did not own or hold the mortgage when the action was filed. Herrera, who filed the letter Oct. 19 as a court exhibit accompanying Porter's counterclaim, sees the letter as an effort to frighten his client into withdrawing the complaint he filed with the attorney general.
Under a label "publication or dissemination is prohibited," the unsigned letter on Stern law firm stationery states, "You should be relieved to be able to live in a civilized society and not take for granted the many opportunities available to people like you here, instead of taking advantage of the system by continuing to occupy a property you don't legally owned [sic]."
"Frankly speaking, you seem to ignore how 'The Rule of Law' works in this Country," the letter states. "We therefore encourage you to educate yourself, as to what is 'legally' acceptable in the United States. The fact that you are a foreign national from a third world country doesn't excuse you from such ignorance."
The letter leaves a white gap for a signature above the typed words "Law Offices of David J. Stern."
Stern's attorney, Jeffrey Tew of Miami's Tew Cardenas, said a security officer at Stern's firm couldn't find the letter in the firm's database. Tew noted the foreclosure case number listed in the letter did not adhere to the firm's style.
"We have examined the letter. There appears to be some things about the letter that bring its authenticity into question, and, in any event, it wouldn't be an authorized letter from the law firm," Tew said.
A Pitney Bowes postage-meter number on the envelope traces back to Stern's offices, according to Herrera. He said Stern's representatives can examine the original, and he would make his computer databases available for inspection.
Herrera, a Coral Gables solo practitioner, contends CitiMortgage lacked standing to sue because Porter's mortgage was sold in 2005 by Mortgage Warehouse to ABN Amro Mortgage Group. He asserts CitiMortgage did not "own, hold or possess" the mortgage when the foreclosure was filed.
The counterclaim alleges slander of title, fraud, fraudulent misrepresentation, abuse of process, civil conspiracy, violation of Florida Consumer Collection Practices Act and violation of the Fair Debt Collection Act.
Court papers initially listed CitiMortgage as the mortgage servicer. A mortgage assignment from Mortgage Warehouse to CitiMortgage was executed Aug. 18, four months after the original foreclosure filing. Herrera called that "a legal impossibility."
'Fabricated Documents'
Herrera said Porter complained to the attorney general's office about the foreclosure earlier that month. On Aug. 10, Attorney General Bill McCollum announced the filing of subpoenas against Stern's firm and three others, claiming "fabricated documents" have been filed in foreclosure cases to oust homeowners.
The law firms say they committed no systemic wrongdoing.
The Aug. 18 date on the letter with the offensive language is the same date as the mortgage assignment.
"This 'sore losing' demeanor will not be tolerated any longer," the letter states. "You know the charges you have filed against our Law Firm are totally false, defamatory, unfounded as are also both embarrassing and shocking."
Porter said the letter came as a shock.
"He makes a major insult against me, my nationality, my ethnic background," Porter said. "Add this to all the humiliation of the foreclosure and everything I had been going through with the bank, it's just not right."
Porter moved to United States with his family when he was a child, settling first in New England before coming to Miami. He said the letter reminded him of something his grandmother used to say: "I'm too American to be Colombian and too Colombian to be American."
Porter, a real estate agent, said he was not going to let his home of 20 years go without a fight. But he said he could never get through to a lawyer at Stern's firm and was belittled by the staff when he called. He said they would purposely pronounce his first name Jorge as "whore."
"I would say, 'Ma'am, you are not being funny," Porter said. "They hung up on me so many times."
Loan Modification
He asserted he tried to work with CitiMortgage from the start. He worked on a loan modification and continued to make mortgage payments though he was in arrears on the $200,000 loan. He said CitiMortgage kept losing his paperwork and eventually his whole file. He said he rejected a modification packet that was mailed to him with different terms than were discussed. The foreclosure suit was filed a few weeks later.
Porter said he went to the FBI, the Federal Trade Commission and finally the state attorney general's office.
"This is the poster child case for the mess that we are in," Herrera said.
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MLK- maladjusted and proud of it!
Richmond,
Indeed, life in the natural state is "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short". Anarchy and chaos are lurking as authority collapses.
How can it be 'solitary'? We're group animals. We're always in groups.
Max it out on hookers and blow, then default on it.
Turnabout is fair play.
hookers and blow? Sounds like Eliot Spitzer. But wait a minute. He is on our side now isn't he?
I actually have no problem with a politician spending their own money on hookers and blow.
No. He's on CNN.
You're a bad influence on me, you've got me thinking it.
We actually have refi papers that will reduce our monthly mortgage check by 40% because the rate will go to 3 3/4 from 5 1/4 on 15 year and now the principal to be paid off is lower. Wells seems eager to let us. Of course that makes me wonder if all the underlying paperwork is in order on their end and if they really still hold the mortgage.
Have considered forgoing payment, but are close enough to owning outright without a mortgage. Since I think the mortgage tax deduction will be rescinded before long (yes, I know, further reducing the asset value of most homes), I would like to own this house outright. Have been here more than 20 years, love the neighbors, garden, and community. House too big for our needs now, but no one would be buying probably anyway.
Those are our current thoughts.
At least...tell them you'll strike that deal, no fees of any kind.
What they want is new paper on you...to be sure you cannot come back with title issue claims...so make 'em work for you.
I have read many, many posts across the web of suddenly cooperative bankers. Be as suspicious of them as Greeks bearing bonds....
You're probably right. They already are not charging any fees for settlement services such as title or flood, and will pay for any appraisal or title search. Since our mortgage is not even 20% of the worst case likely appraisal (present values on basis or comps), I seriously doubt they'll do an appraisal. If they haven't sold our mortgage already, they know title. But I sure am cautious and suspicious.
You should be suspicious. Listen, I'm not telling you to make some national protest point. Just advising that you use the situation to your advantage...as would these rotten bankers. That's all really.
you are close to owning the property outright, but are thinking of forgoing payments...
try making sense next time. seriously
I agree 100% QQQ - what is this? A reduced rate on a 15 fixed, with reduced principal, for something close to outright ownership?
Is this Zero Hedge, or have I accidentally stumbled upon the Zero Sense blog?
@ Cleanclog
I got a similar offer from Chase recently.
Wonder if this "generous offer" from them is a way to get the paperwork in order? The only other thing I can think of is that they offered a competitive refi so we didn't do it somewhere else with rates this low.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/221852-benevolence-by-jpmorgan-jpmorgan-offers-us-a-chance-to-refinance-at-4-with-no-closing-costs-what-s-going-on
I'm still vacillating. The temptation grows daily, though.
I'm quickly approaching that point. I'm 99% sure that my note wasn't conveyed correctly (multiple times), in which case the bank I'm paying isn't legally able to write a notice of satisfaction. If they can't absolve me of the debt, when/if paid in full, then what's the point? That's the practical side of things. Then there's the psychological benefit of telling my bank to go f*** themselves, of course. Want to get some legal advice first, though.
What state are you in? I am gathering legal information for New Mexico. I have hired a lawyer.
If people are staying in their homes and no one can foreclose on them, there must be a valid legal argument. I think I understand the argument. The argument is either correct or its not. It shouldn't apply only to people who made bad financial decisions. It can apply to us good people too. :)
Been mulling it over. Not underwater at this point. A 40% drop would get me there. I would do it just for the satisfaction of screwing with Citi. They are my third mortgage holder (They probably have something else in their hand) so I feel 0% loyalty or even responsibility to that group of vampires. It seems they declared war on us.
If I were to suggest anything it would be to request evidence that you are paying the note holder. Sort of "Dear Sir: In the recent mortgage mess I have become convinced that I am not paying the true note holder. As a result I request evidence that you are the party who holds the note. Therefore please supply me with a "the proper request verbiage here."
If they can not provide the note then you can not provide the payment as they are not the note holder. Everything remains above board. *Except of course that you have pissed off something big and ugly and maybe you don't want to do that.*
But every action does have a reaction.
:) LB
You know, I think I may do just that.
I did this 4 weeks ago and have followed up weekly. To date I have received 2 nonsensical replies that essentially told me everything my monthly statement already does. In essence, they are saying "make me" by simply repeating basic info. It all reminds me of the "possession of 9/10's of the law" myth.
They don't wish to open any doors unless forced. So I'm considering burning down the door.
Get ready to pay some serious attorney's fees.
Really? Attorneys fees are only assessed to losing parties (an even then only for exceptional cases). Under what legal theory do you imagine a foreclosing bank would prevail? Or do you mean a defaulting homeowner must pay his own attorneys?
If the latter, I'm thinking of defaulting getting an attorney on contingency and suing my servicer in federal court for a declaratory judgment that the servicer is owed nothing. To do this, of course, I have to stop paying my mortgage. Seriously pondering this.
you defending yourself? that's the attorneys' fees he's talking about.
Look people - find another way. If you're in trouble, then stopping payment may lead down a road to modifying your morgage. But if you're not, don't stop the payments absent a clear understanding of what may happen, and that means paying a capable lawyer to walk you through the various scenarios.
I'm no friend of these banks, but last I checked they are are still in charge. Please give the MERS and foreclosure issues time - it is slowly eating away at the TBTF banks, and may topple them in due time.
"But if you're not, don't stop the payments absent a clear understanding of what may happen, and that means paying a capable lawyer to walk you through the various scenarios."
Sound advice...I second.
Lawyers are the dregs of society, until you need them. In the case of a roof over your head vs. a sheriff at your door it's better to know ones options...beforehand.
At least in part, yes, I would. Those deposition transcripts are pretty weak. I'm currently mulling the counterclaims I could file were I sued for foreclosure. There are many.
Your advice is excellent. When I visit my 1st attorney, who'll be paid by the hour, you may rest assured I'll be chock full of questions.
I'll go from there.
Know of a local RE attorney that will do an initial consult to discuss peoples' situation(s) and recommend a course of action. At $100, that's a bargain. A review of the response from the lender is more expensive, but again well worth the cost. Know your rights; know your options.
Agreed as to price. Yes, $100 is a good deal if your attorney is on the ball. Before the consult, however, and without paying any money, make sure your lawyer understands that without a promissory note, your servicer cannot legally foreclose, as the servicer lacks--assuming you've established this on your own beforehand, see CD's letter-writing campaign above--standing to bring suit.
As a practical matter, I'd supplement your RE atty requirement with "litigation experience."
Once you've done those things, you're in position to spend money wisely for counsel.
People bash the motherfuck out of lawyers, which is fair enogh 95% of the time. But there's 1MM+ lawyers in the U.S., which means a lot of us are from the middle class. We're on the right side here big time.
I want to make the most of it.
No bank is going to just forgive your debt without a fight in court in which case you'll need your own attorney. I'm not sure what you mean by contingency - there's no way for you to prevail other than debt forgiveness. What damages could you capture that you could then pay a percentage of to the attorney? You did buy the house and agree to pay it back. I'm not saying there isn't a mess to sort out with respect to title but you do owe money to somebody - the issue is just to whom you own the money.
Contingency attorneys work for a piece of the action. For real action, they take 33-40%. So is it written, so shall it be.
Now, you might ask yourself why the lawyers would take a case where the best possible outcome is defaulted homeowner gets to live rent- (but not tax- or assessment-) free. After all, how much is that worth--assuming the homeowner has any assets to begin with.
This raises the issue of counterclaims. If HO doesn't owe plaintiff for want of evidence of any debt, then why shouldn't HO recover all prior payments to an unworthy third party, namely, the foreclosing bank? It's only a matter of time for the plaintiffs bar to see this. Lawyers aren't trained to leave money on tables.
They are a public corporation. Use the Freedom of Information act. Its been years ago, but I filed againist Western Union who is also governed by Federal Law. (Banks are regulated by the F.D.I.C.) All they can say is F.U. -again. Milestones11
I've got my letter written, going to send it RRR tommorow. I'll let ya'll know what happens. They'll probably ignore it?
Mine has been ignored for > 2 weeks now. Ive heard they will send you a photocopy of the note. Which isn't usually sufficient to show "standing"/"holder in due course".
[meh]
A lot of people. Esp under-water mortgages with financial difficulties... I bought my house in June of 2006.. The absolute worse possible time.. LOL
I would love to see this system collapse. Although I think home owners bare some responsibility, the system was either designed to, or evolved into an absolute raping and pillaging of anyone that purchased a house between 2002 and 2007..
yeah and how bout those who chose not to buy into the insanity and have been renting instead? everybody's getting screwed pal. even those who didn't want to play the game.
guess we're fools for having to eat.
Already done. Except I didn't put it in escrow, I put it in precious metals.
Cognitive, I have to admit I have been considering it too.
People look at me like I have 3 heads if I even bring it up. So frustrating.
None payment is a silent dis-oragnized revolt that is not violent. It's the best idea to start a revolution that I can find. Any other idea's?
You will have to go to the clerk of the court to issue a sepena for document discovery from the mortgage holder. Then file request for sanctions from the court after the 4-6 weeks if they refuse to follow up with the information. There not going to just roll over and give it to you.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to keep paying their mortgage.
I am with you on this....I have been questioning it for months but then this issue came up and....
I called B of A and asked for proof of my note, they said no prob and were sending me a copy. Likely, some robosigned bs copy or whatever. It isn't about how to make out for free, to me, it is about saying enough is enough. Fuck the banks on the 1st and I will deal with my local credit union if they come after me on the recourse 2nd (not much I can do about that).
Massive people refusing to pay is about the only way to get the point across and although I won't advise my parents to do it (since they have equity), I have few qualms about it myself. I have a credit score over 800 but I really don't know what good that has done...enough is enough.
Of course they said "no problem!" What did you expect them to say - we have no paperwork or legal standing?
In as nice a way as possible - Dude, wake the fuck up!
lol, I am awake...just trying to convey that they seem to be prepared for these calls and are acting as if it is no big deal. It will be interesting to see what they send as proof.
Same. For an investment property which is current and has never been late at CitiMortgage. Loan changed hands three times. I think the bank and I should negotiate the terms of a clean note. Sent a registered letter requesting a copy of the note and an unbroken chain of title.
In answer to your question, CD: No comment.
Well.. First, consider:
1. Move and close any and all deposits from these a-hole banks to your local Bank or C.U.
2. Clearly these guys hate paperwork. So, instead of paying your mortgage, make a mistake and put your phone or cable bill in there. or, Seriously screw up the payment. i.e. if your mort. is $ 2,250 pay $ 22.50.. Then take a month to resolve it with some more paperwork. Ask them to send all your stuff back.
That will at lease keep the random paper pushers employed for a little longer.
3. Only use formal snail mail for correspondence. USPS needs your change anyway..
Your idea of sending in the cable bill is brilliant! Nothing like misplaced paperwork and nonsense -- didn't the fags at Goldman do that same type of bullshit as slap in the face response to a financial inquiry? Something like a truck load of paper?
Will Publishers Clearinghouse winning scratch entries suffice for loan satisfaction - to the Chinese?
I can leverage it into PCH$100,000,000 in today's fiat "markets," all it needs is an ETF.
1.) Did that in 2005. Have convinced most of my immediate family to do the same. Still a few holdouts that want "convenience" they never use.
2.) Funny you would say this because for the past 6 months I've made the check out for 10 cents more than the payment due and have properly filled in the extra 10 cents as "principal reduction" . They have cleared the check for the entire amount including the 10 cents extra, but have never credited me the 10 cents for each of the last 6 months. I've enjoyed the letter writing immensely as I give them grief.
3.) I always use written US Post Office correspondence because my "note" specifically says all inquires and communications must be written using the Post Office. So I do so regardless of what their web site says. I signed the note, I follow the notes instructions. The bank seems to feel they can do whatever they want.
Time to turn up the heat a little. "Why haven't you reduced my principal by $0.60?" was my last letter. That was when I decided to ask them "Where's the beef.......err......the note?" :>)
Another thing is to use Proof of Mailing from the P.O. Costs $.95 and is a slip of paper with the name address etc (SAME AS ENVELOPE) it gets stamped and dated by the P.O. but there is no notice to the receipient but you have it. Come showdown time-- "I never received it BS." and viola you have the proof in your wallet. Fun to use in court. Used to do it all the time when I used to beat up on the ole Ma Bell.
Also if you didn't catch my other note to you--use the Freedom of Information Act. The banks are regulated by the Fed. Govn. via FDIC. Ihave used it effectively before. Milestones
A Certificate of Mailing is $1.15 and is evidence that you mailed "something" to the person/address on the Certificate. Be sure you get a readable circle date cancel on your certificate even if they use a PVI label. Postal clerks are not familiar with these and I use them all the time. Had to educate my clerks.
http://www.usps.com/prices/extra-services-prices.htm
#2 (or something similar) is seriously a brilliant idea.
kinda like brazil (the movie that is) in reverse.
Brilliant idea. Give them a little taste of their own medicine .
Or...you can just ask for the title or note....if it hasn't been rolled up with many other mortgages and sold many times over to others as mortgage backed securities. If they can't produce the note or the title, then it's yours. Save the stamps. They may try to sue you in civil court, however.
I agree this is very tempting. Have'nt done anything like this before and with a 805 score I'm twisted. Now, if we lose the deduction this thing coud explode.
I had thought about it, but decided to take the "safe" way out, and paid off my mortgage instead.
If I knew then what I know now, I wouldn't have. I would probably have kept paying my mortgage until a month or so ago.
Even those who have no mortgage, and own their home free-and-clear, were getting forclosed on. That is how rampant the theft is by the banksters. Research it. It's happened and is happening.
I quit paying the mortgage 6 months ago. I could see business was drying up, and decided that it was more important to feed my kids than the banker's. quit paying the credit cards too. f-em!
oldest daughter is doing this now with her original countrywide loan from 2005...the current b of a no want to talk about anything...she is a train paralegal and is watching every scrap of paper from them
by the way i read ur comments often as i consider ur opinions to be noteworthy...having said that - "Who else out there is considering such a move?"...ur late my friend...
i did not have to make such a move but did out of outrage...the elitist led by the bankers must be deprived of the means by which they have enslaved humanity...there will be those brainswashed individuals who will express indignation as to "how dare u not honor ur debt obligations" but really think about what the fuck they r saying...honor obligations to those who have destroyed this republic by virtue of the fact they deviously gained contorl of this nations monetary policy???? its absurd...i will not pay a fucking banker another fucking cent...ride or die citizens....choose freedom or servitude....
CD I have not made mine in 3 mth's. I bought some silver on the dip, and a wood stove. I do now have the balance escrowed . But I have not received the certified letter I usually do cause I tend to stay behind,Fuck FICO. Family before the banksters. Wells Fargo supposedly holds the note. Whomever deploys this tactic must escrow their payments , no flatscreens or i-shit cause the devil will caom A'knockin.
Been there, done that for my rentals. Check out my articles. The second one is not yet up on the contributors page. The first draft of part II is above.
I've been slogging through UCC Article 9 and Article 3 (on the Cornell Law University website) to look for legal recourse and recoupment statutes.
"For the first time I am seriously considering not making my mortgage payment"
That is stupidity.
"Porter, a real estate agent, said he was not going to let his home of 20 years go without a fight."
The best way to avoid the fight is live up to the contractual agreement that you made. You made it, live up to it.
Whore wants a free house on the back of taxpayers. Mr Stern has a VERY large practice in Florida and from first hand knowledge I can say there are professionals working there. I have a feeling that Whore may have provoked someone trying to get his house gifted to him.
It's a pervasive attitude in Miami brought on by the fucking Cubans. They have a wet feet, dry feet policy with the Coast Guard meaning once you get off your inner-tube raft if the coasties catch you in the water you are going back. If you are on the beach you get to Pass Go, collect $10k, get food stamps, and a host of other disgusting incentives.
All paid for by Americans who basically know nothing of this. They are groomed from day one skirt authority and go for the handouts.
Fuck the Whores. Don't become one.
CD, I am truly considering it. Will even use an excrow account. I'm so close to doing it. Need something to kick me over the edge.
I am, but I don't have a mortgage. ;-)
CD if your family is still living under the same roof with you, don't do anything unless you have a good lawyer working with you. They can fuck with you if they put their minds to it.
Good luck with that, my friend. Make sure the taxes and insurance get paid out of your escrow funds if needed. A quick check with your county assessor and your insurance agent will be easy.
I will keep a close eye on the goings on before I decide to take your course of action. If the time comes that substantive government action is taken to "help" the underwater mortgage holder with a principal write down (that I will be paying for) then I'm all in. As long as the banks take the hit (which implies my not paying the bill) I'm cool. I'm the guy they don't want defaulting because that will mean there will be hordes of us, and we won't be happy about a bailout.
I would agree, but with 2 thoughts:
1- I bought in 1983 and have large equity - even it prices go down another 30% I'll still have large equity, have low payments, and would still need somewhere to live.
2- Credit Card debt is where banks make their money
Would it be conspiracy to recommend #2?
Hit 'em hard, hit 'em low.
Restless?
Vietnam-era protests were "restless." Wake me up when someone really gets restless...
You will see worse, I expect...in the near term.
A year back, folk were hollering about banker bonuses. Now, we see the trail of tears these guys have left in their wake, the damage done to property law in this country. Americans don't take kindly to violations of right to property.
Vietnam protests...lazy, drug-induced layabouts talking broad concepts. This is much more personal.
The picture of the "protesting" guy sitting in the chair in Huffington's post is priceless. You call that protesting? Obviously you weren't around in the 60s when the "lazy, drug induced layabouts" were torching cars and taking on the pigs.
I have no clue what picture you are talking about, nor I am impressed with the point you are trying to make.
The point I am trying to make is that these systemically fraudulent mega banks have violated the chain of title on private property. If you do not understand what I am saying, and instead you refer to cliche notions of Vietnam protests, then you are actually sitting in China right now trying hard to make a point you do not have the context to make.
Hello Hong Kong!
The point I'm trying to make is "systemically fraudulent mega banks have violated the chain of title on private property" and NOBODY CARES! If this had happened back in the 60s folks would be torching cars and taking on the man.
Kids today are so brain-washed by the establishment they have no clue what is happening to them. Like I said, wake me up when the masses start marching on Wall Street. Until then, all these pontifications about "fraud" and "violation" are a bunch of hot air, not worth a second glance... yawn...
And no I'm not sitting in China...
Do you really believe this tripe?
"Yawn"...favorite far east challenge to things your folk do not understand.
Harry was here [not] looking for you. You should probably check in.
Pontification? What...you just need one more day to hit your basis? You cannot actually believe that the systemically fraudulent condition of US banks is a one day thing. You cannot actually believe that.
Take a sticky rice break. Regroup. Come back fresh with another user ID...'cause this thread will not be productive for you...I promise.
I don't think, I know. Yes, the banks committed fraud. But the sheeple are powerless to do anything about it and will meekly accept the dismantling of the Republic.
I'm wrong? Missouri.
What...no snappy retort, Hong Kong? Yeah, folk here get this, the lack of creativity and quick thinking from those who are, how shall I say, far east challenged?
You do not understand what I am talking about, do you? Com'mon...some weak crap response in return or some "googled" image as your platform.
Stupid. Bother other folk than me, OK Hong Kong?
Just as Americans can't seem to wrap their heads around the notion of Iraquis going on killing sprees against "our boys" after their families have been murdered, I've been wondering why nobody seems to have considered just how far many people would go once they found out that their homes have literally been stolen from them by a bank.
I shudder to think what I would do to the guy whose bank robbed me. It would be very personal, and it wouldn't be visited upon the local branch manager.
Their homes? Actually, it's their way of life they've stolen they just don't know it yet.
You sound like a mosquito in a nudist camp...
For all their faults, many in the 60's were protesting the prospect or reality of being drafted into a losing war on the other side of the world. I'd call that pretty personal.
They sent those NG idiots out there to Kent State in 1970 with loaded freakin M16's and they shot and killed 4 kids for no damn reason. It was cold blooded murder if you ask me. The trouble with this country and protest is that here, for some reason, we think it is ok for the cops and the NG to have loaded weapons when dealing with civil unrest, unlike Greece and France for instance where people get out in the street and beat each other up but at least they don' kill anyone, (except that time about a year ago in Greece) and that cop got charged with manslaughter for that shooting. Good grief, can you imagine a cop here being charged for shooting someone without cause. What a ripple that would cause in the establishment. This time when the cops start the shooting , that will just about do it, imho. Enough is enough already.
New revelations from audio recording of Kent State. Pistol shots heard prior to NG engagement. Armed FBI informant photographing protestors suspected of firing shots.
http://www.cleveland.com/science/index.ssf/2010/10/revelations_from_kent_state_au.html
Don't forget to stop paying taxes as well.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom — go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! - Samuel Adams -AKA Mr. Boston Tea Party
That will get you in trouble.
A more appropriate protest is what I call Project Frosty.
Do not file electronically. Fill your tax return out manually but do it with a Mr. Frosty pen.
http://oi53.tinypic.com/v2wis7.jpg
They will attempt to scan it but white-on-white does not scan. The IRS will then have to hire many of the countries unemployed to assist in processing the paperwork and the efficiencies once gained will be lost.
The sheeple are becoming popped corn.
There needs to be a campaign to strike MERS off every title in the country.
It pretends to be nominee but has no interest. It pretends to have the power to pursue foreclosures but has no notes. It has split 60+ million mortgages into liens and notes when the US Supreme Court in 1879 ruled this is illegal.
MERS has defrauded counties and states of billions of dollars just when they are desparate to fill massive holes in their budgets.
MERS facilitated securitization which is one of the main reasons that the property bubble occurred - when lenders lost interest in whether borrower could ever repay.
Once MERS is struck off all titles the correct mortgagees can be written on - assuming they can find the notes. If not then tough!
Ahh yes everyone. Don't forget how many MBS's were sold to foreign governments and their state pension funds. So when we see riots in the streets of Europe in the name of Austerity protest, just wait until the deduce that they have been robbed by the Oligarchs on the front end (MBS's), the back-end (Bailouts) and everywhere in between.
And nobody was the wiser while they snuck in, did their theivery and vacated with us standing there holding the door open and telling them "have a nice day".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy81dVuS6oU
"just wait until they deduce..."
makes me want to start a tour business: Pitchfork Vacations
would be so perfectly fitting at this point that those who really started to march on the cobblestones were here on tourist visas.
"If not then tough!" Indeed.
Not exactly habeas corpus, more like habeas notis (produce the note...oh and the deed of trust while you're at it)
What are you talking and complaining about!!. MERS is probably going to be the multi Trillion $$ mistake that will salvage most dumb Americans asses and they don't even understand where we are at. This whole fiasco has put "we the people" in the cross hairs of our sorry civilization.
Either the people stand, fight and win this battle or we had better get used to cutting bait for a living. We are standing trembling in front of the banks and all these other shitheads in government instead of tearing their throats out with our hands. We are at Kierkeeraud's (sp) "Either/Or. Milestones
Kierkegaard. I hope we go with 'or', personally!
"Either" we bail out the banks, "or" we let them go under, and if the entire dollar system collapses, so be it. The banking system is headed by organized crime, it can no longer be denied. The oligarchy have f***ed up, now is our chance to return to a simpler time. But a LOT of the brainwashing they have accomplished will have to be reversed.
http://psychonews.site90.net
Already there. Putting the cash into PM's until either they can prove who owns my mortgage and I can get a clear title at the end, or it all comes crashing down. Of course, I have a bonus, I collect rent on a second home on my property that will also go into the same account to help with those fines and penalties should they ever come due.
I am betting that in three months, assuming of course there is not a "legal" settlement made by our soon to be lame duck congress, they will be screaming for the money and will waive all fees and penalties as they try and stay ahead of the wave.
The more the merrier!
Some law enforcement officials say that a goal of their investigations is to negotiate an industrywide settlement with mortgage lenders that will include forgiving the principal on a loan and more loan modifications.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/25/AR201010...
Good old "justice" for the elite.
i hope you're compassionate with your renter if and when the time comes.
People refusing to pay mortgages is actually one of the most powerful and seditious things possible. If this trend grew, I don't know how they could stop it. There are just too damn many delinquent mortgages. I want this to supernova so bad.
The entire business of banking is built on trust. This time around, it is the bankers who have broken trust. And so you are correct...like a waterfall it will come down, I suspect. And based on everything I have researched over the last year or so, that trust should fall, and folk should walk away from these guys.
And as Ben Bernanke goes deeper and deeper into his protection of these bankers, so too should he and his corrupt operation fall.
This is where we are. For the miracle of internet, all sort and type of folk are looking at the entire notion of the Federal Reserve Bank...and the clock on this group is so clearly ticking....it actually distrubs my sleep now.
Dark days just ahead, but on the other side...freedom.
Cdad was here..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF4i7JEOzzM
Mortgage Holiday.
Call it "Mortgage Message".
"I am not paying my mortgage this month to protest the bailout of banks and corporations at my expense."
It would take six months to organize a coordinated effort to skip the payment for the month - how about July?
If the good bill/mortgage paying citizen really wanted to send a message without shooting this would be the way.
Save up for the penalty fee and the mortgage amount of course. One coordinated non-payment month would send the message loud and clear.
Wondering what's happening in France right now?
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xfa1ft_manif-la-police-se-deguise-en-ca...
Here is a video taken last week during anti-Sarkozy and anti-austerity riots in Paris.
The cattle will do nothing, people have all the power in the world but no will to exercise it. We have mass Stockholm syndrome and have for a long long time. Just feed them more discrattionary junk on the TV while stealing some more current wealth and future wealth off of them and their children. They are too apathetic to care about or too dumb to realise it's happening.
I think you are referring to most of the last 30 years. Unfortunately for your opinion, you missed the turn.
This is not "Three's Company." This is not roller blading. This is not Apple. This, the systemactic destruction of the chain of clean title, the disruption of property rights...is bigger than most of what, I suspect, you are capable of contemplating.
But what do I know...for JPM fisnished up! Woot!
Don't get me wrong. I wish the people would rise up and bring down this crooked system, and have the guilty hanging in the street. But i have little to no faith in the human race and history has proven me right, if 'the people' throughout history had used the power they have always had they wouldn't keep allowing themselves become ruled by criminals and oligarchs, it's happened time and time and time again. Unfortunately, i don't expect this time to be any different.
Listen Monkey,
I agree in sentiment...for most of my life. However, it is clear to me that things are different now. I am a close student of this bank thing, title, what is going on. And I am confident that "things are different this time." Why?
You can see it in the bankers' behavior. Soon enough you will see it in the rats as they leave...on Lear jets, unfortunately. Oh yes, most will make it to safety and into their enclaves. Justice will be hard to serve.
However, that is not what this thread is about. This thread is about Average Joe recognizing his condition in this rotten deal...and refusing to pay said rotten banker in his enclave.
And so as the day turns into evening, and ultimately darkness, surely the far east and its tendency to be the last guy in the room to understand what is going on...that fellow will provide a modicum of comfort to Average Joe...as he quits paying his legally fraudulent mortgage and coincidentally transferring the last of this fiscal pain...to Hong Kong.
This is the simple point I make. And just as sure as your empty cities in all of the various uninhabited provinces all across your f'd up land are silent, so too will the board room be such in various far east banks that have struggled for so long to emulate the deceit of JP Morgan...when they finally figure out this simple post.
Get a glass of water. Prepare to swallow [Fannie and Freddie paper], Hong Kong.
Cdad was here....
Nice to see another realist lurking around the halls of ZH. So many appear to not understand that this is really it - no joke. I posted this on the GL thread, but thought it might be apropos with specific reference to your comment:
***
My father, the long time MIC intelligence operative, taught me the most important rule:
Some may notice that my posts never promote any ideals, nor complain about how things actually are, or deplore that the pace of change is too slow, etc.
Nope, they're usually just straight observations about how things actually work, with a little bit of monetary mechanics thrown in to support certain conclusions.
Life is really quite simple: we are born, grow & develop, decline & die. During our peak growth & development stage(s), we must compete for scarce resources in order to support the offspring that typically result from successful mating strategies. Evolutionary pressures have resulted in the manifestation of certain behaviors centered around organizational power.
Societies & cultures are simply amalgamations of individuals, so they tend to mirror and replicate individual behavior. The quest for power consolidation is a key foundational element of government. Since most people are ill equipped to survive this type of environment, the strong always rise to the top.
However, and this is a huge however, as noted above, these self-same societies, cultures & governments are also subject to the immutable laws of nature: they are born, grow & develop, then enter a period of decline and die.
What does this mean to us? Simple - don't bother complaining. Just let nature takes its course. If a society/culture/government is presently in a growth & development stage (ie at its peak power), it is a waste of time/energy to complain or attempt to effect meaningful change. OTOH, if it is entering the decay/death cycle, one need not do anything other than perhaps give a gentle 'push'.
The USA, as it is presently constructed, is in terminal decline. The Fed cannot fight the math - they needed some incredible new growth component to bury the last decade of fraud. Sadly, at least for them, it is not forthcoming. The MIC is not going to take-one-for-the-team by accepting blame for two more lost wars. Anyone with the slightest heightened sense of awareness can tell that the marriage of convenience between the Fed & MIC (that is, $USD backed by military control of ME oil AND military control of ME oil backed by the $USD) is not going to end well.
Rather than endlessly engage in parlor room debates regarding various economic theories, it might profit one to think about the larger scale cycle(s) that are playing out in real time. From the ashes a new form of organization will arise - will you make it through the bottleneck and/or benefit from the new paradigm?
I suggest this is what people should be contemplating and planning.
I am sorry if I am wrong...but this looks exacltly like a desperate "Hong Kong" type post...shift, move, reestablish cred, and link a new narrative.
You are my new special pet. Could be wrong...but we shall see. I'm a linguistic guy.
Cdad was here.......
Oh...no one in this country names themself B9K9. Just a tip for your stupid a$$.
Chumba is that you Bitchez?
Not Chumba bitchez!
You are the people
He is not " the people" if you mean Average Joe. He is a poster in Hong Kong...tasked with providing disinformation, or discovering information, whatever the case may be.
Tonight, I'd say the crew is looking for actual information. Remember how the street tricked Hong Kong into buying massive stakes in American banks...about a year ago? Well, think of him as a PM. He is not actually that, but rather an underling...feeling his way through the dark....
Ug. It gets worse by the minute....
I wish I didn't have at least some concern that you are correct. The tide is turning but it will be difficult to turn this ship around. Hopefully it just sinks. Then people will finally wake up, but with wet mattresses.
Time for Pb & j?
(j=joules)
Tyler, can we get a page of links in chronological order for this fraudclosure mess??? I'm starting to get pummled by friends/family waking up..
Holidays will be fun, as the groups get together and start talking...
Really, this sounds like a big deal but Mr. Market, who is always right, doesn't give a hoot about Fraudgate.
Owl, or stool pigeon?
Always the last guy in the room to know. That should be your handle, Hong Kong.
Good grief.
Someone should make a web site where people could pledge not to pay their mortgage until the bank CEOs and all those involved in the fraud are put in jail. We can't trust the banks until the fraud is finished and the criminals are locked up.
Go ahead and take the lead with this great idea. Let's see where you can take it and how many will actually pledge. I'll be the first if you make the web site.
Will you use your real name?
I'm not much of a coder. Although I could make a public google doc where people could add their name along with the date they stopped their payments. I don't think it's important if they use their real name, just that they make the pledge. I'd also have a mission statement for the site.
We pledge to stop making any and all mortgage payments this day. We will no longer participate with criminals that defraud us and we will no longer participate with a system that continues to violate the rule of law. We will do no business with any bank as long as the criminals have not been put in jail and the rule of law reestablished In our republic.
Or something like that :)
there's gotta be a few coders here at ZH...I'm a sys eng, so my "websites" are hideous, straight html, "just the facts ma'am" style...com'on, a little php, MySQL, logons for congress critters to pull reports from the db...? Anyone game?
Do you have ColdFusion?
If so, I can code in that along with Javascript, Jquery and Ajax.
I'd prefer to do the plumbing only and let a pro designer take the front end. I can design , but it's a pain in the ass because then you get half ass code with half ass design.
I also have servers and Coldfusion. PHP? Nah. I could do some basic stuff, but you get what you pay for and with PHP it's free which means verbosity and much more time.
The front end has to look as professional as anything out there or no one will take it seriously. I can take Photoshop or Illustrator files and convert them to a functional UI.
I can create the design. Where should I email it to? I'll look for a place where I can upload and you can download the final psd file. We just need a name for the site and the domain - stoppayingcrooks.com? nopaymentuntiljustice.com? mortgage4justice.com? all those are available.
Graphics, hosting and UI appear covered...
Ok, looks like we need someone to register the domain(s)(I can point many domains to the same content), someone to code PHP on LAMP or .NET backend.
If this comes together, email me [tomdub_1024 at some hot kinda mail.com, (you know what I mean)] and I can setup web space and let you know nameservers, login, etc.
Are we getting up now?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2Plf5f59N4&feature=fvsr
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8aXfrlMFaw&NR=1
:)
Sent you the design :)
Got it!
Ok folks, hosting and design acted upon, who's going to be the webmaster/developer and turn this into reality? My email addy is in the thread...:)
Unfortunately, I have only an old version (MX) and only 1 customer using it...I have had only 2 requests for ColdFusion the last 3-5 years. The cost of CF makes this a ROI non-starter since everyone expects unlimited web hosting for $2.99/month anymore. Everyone wants PHP and .NET now based on the developers I work with...CF does some cool stuff, I just don't get the requests from developers anymore to justify Adobe's price (I do have to make ROI some time...;).
java* should work on my cPanel servers (std LAMP, with some nice one click install of various softwares, but I am not a developer anymore...:)
If you have CF servers then go for it and let me know how I can help...:)
I'm on board. I'll even throw in a few shekels, and even make some phone calls.
Real power is effected by non participation. No street clashes necessary. The police are not the enemy. We take the rats down with their own game, and don't pay squat.
A coordinated strike on mortgages, tax, and work for even a brief amount of time will do much to bring our so called public servants to heel, and/or flush out our enemies.
I'll host it on my servers, no charge...
I have stopped paying my mortgage and I'm putting it in escrow at my local credit union. I have mailed registered letter requesting to see my note as well. I have not heard back from them yet and November 1 will be my second missed payment.
If you have not heard from them, that means they are in deep shit, and don't have your note.
But don't worry as you quit your payment. Hong Kong will be picking up the tab through Fannie and Freddie. So have a party, be generous to your guests, and toss out any bankers that show up looking for free ribs and taters....
hate to break it to you amigo, but HK ain't the boogeymen you're looking for. that is, unless, you're endeavoring to avert the gaze from the real boogeymen.
boo
Sure...right...uh huh...
Listen...let me break it to you. No one names themself "tip e canoe" save from some Hong Kong loser who once read an article that gave him the impression that somehow canoes were deep in the American psychie.
But you can go on posting, and trying to convince, and refuting with as few words as possible...'cause you pigeon English is poor.
Better than that, take a sticky rice break and never post a response to me...ever.
Cdad was here....
Cdad, google Tippecanoe and Tyler too. American history. get yourself some edumaction while yer at it.
Teaser...there on my lower extremity...your attention, please.
THNX.
oh shit, the new jonny bravo.
your insults are tiresome
you got it bub....enjoy your 50 cents
I requested my note online and received, within two weeks, hastily made and stapled copies.
Unfortunately, I refinanced in December 2009 to get a lower rate and move from 20 to 15 years. That's what I get for being responsible - bent over! I have half the equity in the house so I'm not underwater, but that simply means I have something else for the lawyers and bankers and politicians to come after.
Had I known they were fudging paperwork I would have left the original loan with WaMu (!$#%&*!).
Imagine how bad thier paperwork is?
What do disgruntled employees do? Erase hard drives ;-)
Yes, I feel like a fool for being responsible.
Assured said more than 83 percent of 1,306 defaulted loans examined in one of the transactions, ACE’s Home Equity Loan Trust, Series 2007-SL2, breached Deutsche Bank’s representations and warranties. In the second deal, Home Equity Loan Trust, Series 2007-SL3, 86 percent of the 1,774 loans breached the agreements, Assured said.
Ah, yes, the real numbers.
Curiously, ACE’s Home Equity Loan Trust, Series 2007-SL2 is:
-- $127.7 million Class A rated at AAA
The AAA ratings on the Class A certificates (the Certificates) reflect credit enhancement provided by excess spread, including targeted overcollateralization (OC) of 35.00% of the collateral. The rating on the Certificates also takes into consideration a financial guaranty insurance policy issued by the Assured Guaranty Corp. The policy will guarantee the timely distribution of interest and the ultimate distribution of principal on the Certificates.
Just made my mortgage payment
0.2344
Yup, you read that right. Let's see what they make of that.
I am curious to see just how screwed up the system is.
Oh yeah, and show me the note
144 Billion will be split up in January to reward these criminals for their corruption. Welcome to your new America.
???????
Wall Street bonuses.
Remember Attica? Now thats what you call a riot
There are symptoms and problems. If you treat the symptoms, the problem remains. The fed is the problem, fold it like a lawn chair, stuff them bitches full of government debt. Get 2 birds with one stone.
Wipe out the fed, Wipe out the debt.
What's not to love?
This is the worst possible free negative campaign ad against the Democrats heading into Nov. 2. It's actually somewhat refreshing when events spiral out of control and "extend and pretend until after the election" doesn't work.