Whatever one thinks about the near-criminal strategy taking place behind the scenes as to how Japan is handling the bailout, one thing is certain: the 50 Tepco workers who are currently laboring at Fukushima, doing all they can to restore the plant back to life, even at the cost of their own lives, are doing a tremendous service to their fellow citizens (futile or otherwise), and deserve to be called heroes. The Mail has compiled what little information is available about these impromptu martyrs, of whom five are believed to have already died and 15 are injured while others have said they know the radiation will kill them, in a piece that everyone should read, especially those who are wondering just who it is that is doing everything in their power to offset Hitachi's criminal conduct in the construction of the power plant as disclosed earlier. "The darkness is broken only by the flashing torchlight of the heroes who stayed behind. These first images of inside the stricken Fukushima Dai-Ichi power plant reveal the terrifying conditions under which the brave men work to save their nation from full nuclear meltdown. The Fukushima Fifty - an anonymous band of lower and mid-level managers - have battled around the clock to cool overheating reactors and spent fuel rods since the disaster on March 11."
Despite sweltering heat from the damaged reactors, they must work in protective bodysuits to protect their skin from the poisonous radioactive particles that fill the air around them.
But as more radiation seeps into the atmosphere minute by minute, they know this job will be their last.
Five are believed to have already died and 15 are injured while others have said they know the radiation will kill them.
The original 50 brave souls were later joined by 150 colleagues and rotated in teams to limit their exposure to the radiation spewing from over-heating spent fuel rods after a series of explosions at the site. They were today joined by scores more workers.
Japan has rallied behind the workers with relatives telling of heart-breaking messages sent at the height of the crisis.
A woman said her husband continued to work while fully aware he was being bombarded with radiation. In a heartbreaking email, he told his wife: 'Please continue to live well, I cannot be home for a while.'
One girl tweeted in a message translated by ABC: 'My dad went to the nuclear plant, I've never seen my mother cry so hard. People at the plant are struggling, sacrificing themselves to protect you. Please dad come back alive.'
But it is becoming even more pressing that the Fukushima succeed after it was revealed today that Tokyo's tap water has been contaminated by unusual levels of radiation.
While only praise can be showered on these 50 or so volunteers for the true greater good, the biggest punishment possible should be doled out for those who knowingly let this catastrophe occur, if indeed corners were cut in the design of the NPP, and also for those who continue to lie to the population in an attempt to prevent a panic (yes, we have all heard the Mutual Assured Destruction lies of a government that does "what is best for everyone") while simply allowing an ever greater number of people to succumb to radiation poisoning or worse.
What point are you two trying to make? That we MUST consume x amount of power and therefore Fuku isn't as fucked up as it seems because coal is worse? Maybe we aren't that concerned about coal versus nukes at the moment - we want the truth about the radiation dangers and how that will affect the sanity of 35,000,000 people in Tokyo, right now! We can talk about 19th century London after the Apocalypse, ok?
OK, stop using nuclear. Demand for fossil fuels, including oil (as well as coal), will rise. That will make food more expensive. More people in the third world will die because they simply can't afford food and their government can't afford it or won't buy it for them. This is not exactly a mere hypothetical concept. So getting away from nuclear will kill an untold number of people. But they're mostly brown people so you and most of ZH readers probably wouldn't care anyway.
@Trav
Am I the only OTHER person who can remember from social studies class about the AIR in London during the onset of the coal-powered industrial revolution??
No, but you're the only OTHER person who seems to be forgetting that coal was used for domestic heating as well. EVERY house in London burnt coal - and the winters were considerably colder then, so they burnt a lot of it. The smog stopped when households were forbidden to burn it, not when the power stations stopped using it.
Anyway - my point was that just saying "coal regularly kills thousands of people, nuke kills practically no one, ergo nuke is better" ignores the hidden costs of nuclear.
Coal is about 21% of US baseload and much higher than that in some countries (France, for instance).
Coal is not cheap if you look at total costs with all externalities. The pollution from coal is nasty at all imaginable levels. The main difference is that since humans have been playing with fire for millennia, coal plants don't usually burn down. Usually. And people easily disregard all the heavy metals (some radioactive) that coal plants inject into the atmosphere 24/7, but go nuts when a nuke plant injects some of the same heavy metals into the air once every couple decades.
Try 50% for coal
Right - I meant to say that nuclear is about 21% of US baseload and higher in other countries. France's coal use would actually be relatively low (corresponding to their very high use of nuclear).
Oil can be used for baseload, but few places do so, due to higher cost and the fact that doing so is equivalent to burning priceless paintings to heat your garage. I remember reading that Japan has one oil-fired electric plant that uses basically straight crude oil, not significantly refined.
Many people are getting hugely excited over radiation exposure that represents a significant health risk, but by no means guaranteed permanent harm, to fifty people.
Death is generally considered to be the most serious type of permanent harm.
This is a point worth thinking about of course. Nuclear accidents are 'overrepresented' compared to other causes of human suffering. However, the problem with current nuclear reactors is that accidents affect our genes and most of the catastrophe in Japan is yet to unfold. It will take years, even decades. The Chernobyl event had terrible long term effects, including tens of thousands of birth deformities, cancer cases and whatnot. There are designs available that make accidents like this almost impossible, even if the reactor is ripped in half, but for some reason they have been shelved.
I think the post below on radiation risk outlined by physicians for social responsiblity is all you need to know to conclude that nuclear power is irresponsible. And this site should be awarded Pulitzer for amazing reporting.
What I want to know, what wall street financial is brave enough to live in tokyo? Does anyone here think that anyone will really want to live there full-time now? Move their family, their children to be exposed to cesium and whatever else isn't being reported. I see massive relocation. Buy Japan, yeah right. I know wall street boys and they care about their health.
how about tokyo rose? oh, that's right; she's broadcasting from eniwetok atoll for safety reasons, now.
eniwetok atoll usta be the answer to every Mad Magazine trivia question abt nukes, for years. what? not worried?
and, i think trav is ready for the xanax, now. sorry 'bout that, bob_d...
I'd like to know if someone from the Associated Press actually took these pictures, or did the workers?
I believe there are reporters that are also going to die of radiation poisoning after all of this is over, if it ever ends. You won't hear about them. They'll just disappear.
You call that broke? Hell, that ain't broke. My redneck buddies can take some duct tape, bailing wire, and chewing gum, and... actually they can't. But offer them a case of wild turkey and they would have at it.
Any group of Americans would approach this with a sense of the scale of the problem, and an evaluation of probable/possible outcomes. That's what's missing here. The plan is..., yeah, what's the plan?
"Then out spake brave Horatius,
The Captain of the Gate:
"To every man upon this earth
Death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his gods,"
Horatius at the Bridge
- Thomas Babbington Macauley
The majority of Human nature does err on the honrable side -- the aberant are in the minority... Don't let the "paper" kings and queens tell you otherwise.
The Ceo and board should be grabed, force to drink the toxic water and forced the breath in the dust.....an appropriate death sentance.
I hope the heroes are made as comfortable as possible and their families taken care of.
The Daily Mail <<<< The National Enquirer
The Fukushima 50 (150) are heroes. They are statistically likely to suffer adverse health effects due to increased radiation exposure. I don't believe for an instant any of them have died and none are likely to die from radiation poisoning.
Those people are doing a helluva job. Tepco execs should write themselves another bonus check.
The Fukushima Fifty - an anonymous band of lower and mid-level managers - have battled around the clock to cool overheating reactors and spent fuel rods since the disaster on March 11.
Where the fuck is everybody else? Where have they been?
"The darkness is broken only by the flashing torchlight of the heroes who stayed behind."
The time to bring in temporary services was within hours of the original event, before the site turned to shit. Did they forget it's dark inside a building when the lights are off? This is what non-response gets you. I told my wife on day 5 that people were going to die fixing this. She doesn't even ask me about it anymore.
The executives and the satrapy have blood on their hands.
The freakin' execs are too busy weeping on TV. Pathetic losers!
if i were one of the 50, i would demand before i took one step near that deathtrap, the top 50 leaders of Japan would have to stand in the same area as i did
That would have been a futile demand. Because the executives and all others sharing blame are cowards.
Bless the Fifty.
Photo 4, they are REPLACING a 4 or 6 kV transformer/breaker in here. Dark main control room means that they have no visibility into plant conditions of any type. Whatever nuclear data link to outside emergency response facilities prob had no power for a long while. Therefore: no data transmitted broadly permits management spin and all kinds of opinion (like wtf does the IAEA know?). So both TEPCO and LDP get to play games while Fukushima-Daiichi burns. Bastards.
And God/the gods bless these men and their families. tears
- Ned
{MsCreant: on topic from our previous discussion.}
That looks a little above 4 or 6 KV .. just sayin.
The lines to the on-site substation on the high side are 245 KV to Rx 1-4, 500 KV to 5 and 6 ...
I'd buy that, thanx.
which means more work to get the lower voltage distribution goin'
which means essentially reestablishing the entire normal ac distribution system established again (vs. 're-established').
Wonder how the switchyard did. Coastal sites (TPC, Pilgrim, ...) get salt fog. tsunami-fog?
- Ned
OutOfControl, a haiku...
Can start but can't stop
Corium gadolinium
Soon we all learn more.
re: radiation.
If you can START something, but cannot STOP it, can you CONTROL it?
e.g., bombarding a metal with neutrons will cause radioactivity. Ther is no way to turn-off the radioactivity. That defies the essence of CONTROL. Beware comparing this to examples where you can both Start and Stop something.
'pends on the purpose of "Start". Like in Egypt, Libya, ...
maybe "start" is to wreck things, then control is manipulate the situation in the wreckage?
- Ned
Watch how quickly the politicians wrap their slimy tentacles around this courageous act.
To the 50... You're the bravest souls left on this planet!
However, I only Wish it was UPPER MANAGEMENT who were doing that work since they cut corners and deserve that kind of payback.
That would be the only way the upper crust is ever a HERO.
I'm reminded of The Bard:
"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more."
Heroes all...
The most striking photos in that Mail article are the 'destroyed' and 'transformation' photos of the Naka roadway (page down about 2/3):
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1369216/Fukushima-Fifty-First-pictures-emerge-inside-Japans-stricken-nuclear-power-plant.html
Totally collapsed/destroyed roadway on March 11th; now completely rebuilt (with new guardrails, striping and all) in less than two weeks! Hard to tell it was ever damaged.
Amazing what a dedicated culture can accomplish in a crisis.
Cal-Trans could learn a thing or two from the Japanese...
Amazing - they even lost light in the control room !
The samurai spirit lives on! They will die with honor and there family name will be looked upon with pride. The top level managers will live the rest of there lives knowing they were cowards and they will be looked upon with shame.
I think that the Nobel Peace Prize should be taken back from Obama and distributed among the families of these brave people. They may have saved more lives by the sacrifice of their own than any other group of dedicated souls in the history of this often wretched, sometimes beautiful world.
That is a beautiful idea.
I salute you all, and hope that the new Japan remembers.
i applaud these 50's for the honor that they are showing to their country. i don't think it is honor to TEPCO. they certainly look more skilled then mid to lower level managers or technicians. look at the equipment they have attached to their bodies. these men possess some serious trade and technical skills to be working all kinds of equipment. i bet you on the whole nobody in america that has these kind of skills would risk their lives to fix what they think can be fixed.
is that a brand new Prius pulled right up to the destroyed reactor? always like to bring the toyota Prius to the scene of the crime, just to show hybrid technology, made in Japan.
"i bet you on the whole nobody in America that has these kind of skills would risk their lives....."
I've worked next to this type of person for the last 30 years here in the US. We risk our lives/limbs on a daily basis just to get a regular job done. There would be no shortage of heroes here.
I bow deeply to the 50, and whoever else will follow.
god bless the martyrs.....
god damn the criminals...
RIP.
Make sure their families are taken care of.
They represent the one of the best virtues of humanity, not often seen.
I admit to being unable to evalaute the information on radiation exposure (cannot keep all the increments straight, for sure) but the group known as the Physicians for Social Responsibility has this to say:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23902
"According to the National Academy of Sciences, there are no safe doses of radiation. Decades of research show clearly that any dose of radiation increases an individual’s risk for the development of cancer.
“Consuming food containing radionuclides is particularly dangerous. If an individual ingests or inhales a radioactive particle, it continues to irradiate the body as long as it remains radioactive and stays in the body,”said Alan H. Lockwood, MD, a member of the Board of Physicians for Social Responsibility. “The Japanese government should ban the sale of foods that contain radioactivity levels above pre-disaster levelsand continue to monitor food and water broadly in the area. In addition, the FDA and EPA must enforce existing regulations and guidelines that address radionuclide content in our food supply here at home.”
As the crisis in Japan goes on, there are an increasing number of sources reporting that 100 milliSieverts (mSv) is the lowest dose at which a person isat risk for cancer. Established research disproves this claim. A dose of 100 mSv creates a one in 100 risk of getting cancer, buta dose of 10 mSv still gives a one in 1,000 chance of getting cancer, and a dose of 1 mSv gives a one in 10,000 risk.
Even if the risk of getting cancer for one individual from a given level of food contamination is low, if thousands or millions of people are exposed, then some of those people will get cancer..."
Obviously not Ann "Radiation is Good For You" Coulter...
Did you read the piece she wrote?
You have to separate the radiation issue from the various radioactive isotopes issue.
Cesium (acts as a replacement for potassium)
Strontium (acts as a replacement for calcium)
Iodine (Accumulates in the thyroid gland)
The above three are the most dangerous, since their halflife is relatively short (iodine only 8 days or so, cesium, strontium about 30 yrs), they can do significant damage to your inner organs.
The rest of the radioactive material has no real biological function, but do pose as a radiation hazard, but since most of them have really long half times and are heavy metals, you are likely to get heavy metal poisoning before the radiation issue becomes a problem...
Some of them do tend to accumulate in your body.
80% of the plutonium you accumulate, goes to the liver, bones or the bonemarrow. However, with a halflife approaching eternity (by human standards), you are unlikely to get much radiation from it, even though it is toxic and cause other problems.
Their honor, dedication and sacrifice is inspirational. True bushido.
100 millisieverts = 0.1 sieverts, = 1/250 additional cancer (estimated):
RADIATION AND CANCER
Heyyy Joey, Those are some big balls you got there.
Thank you Fukushima 50.
Fukushima 50
...
and beyond
thank-you
...
.
on a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
150 years from now, we'll all laugh about all this stuff we thought was so important.
I'm glad someone else was in control. thank-you.
.
End corporate personhood!
True heroes.
Maybe they should brick up all the way around what's left of the reactor buildings then beach an oil tanker as close as possible.Fill the tanker holds with water, use this for spraying and collect at bottom of bricked-up building back into the ship,-which would act as a heatsink so as it will keep the coolent contained going around like a radiator on a car? Add boron to taste.
I like the fact that they have dirt FREAKIN roads rolling all the way up to the door of the plant... makes me feel that there was no expense spared in the making of this POS...
scary that
you're right...they really should have taken the time to repave all the roads after the tsunami washed a bunch of houses over them.
Ouch....
Folks, this is classic Trav...
valuation determination on equities has been elusive over the past decade
For all of us calling for the heads of those responsible, don't worry, you can bet there will be a number of seppukus in the next few months. Although ritual suicide is still pretty rare in Japan (despite reports), the nuke problem is the worst thing to happen there since the war, and it increasingly looks like it was preventable.
Instead of seppuku how about the senior execs at TEPCO suiting up and reporting for duty with the "50"? How about some officials and leaders from the Japanese national government and the Sendai Prefecture doing the same?
What are the odds of that happening?
What about if the same thing happened in the US?
These people are heros and have my respect and gratitude (for what little it is worth).
Thank you for placing yourselves in harms way; you deserve to be recognized the world over.
The solution to most problems on fraud street/Washington DC can be found in these 50 people, and their families.
The Japanese have honor, and I'm thankful that for every Shameless Brian Peters there are (at least) 50 to crush them with principle and no bonus.
The water pump with the red long telescope arm that you can see in the last picture is provided by Germany.
We do what we can.
This water pump can be remote controlled and has a camera at the tip of the arm.
Originally this is a concrete pump, an M58 by the Svabian company Putzmeister from Aichtal.
http://www.pmw.de/cps/rde/xchg/SID-3C6E00FC-4A22BD80/pm_online/hs.xsl/93...
The irony here is that EXACTLY the same company in 1986 provided the Soviets with 4 concrete pumps for the construction of the concrete sarkophagus around the reactors in Chernobyl.
Pictures taken in 1986 in Chernobyl:
http://www.pmw.de/cps/rde/xchg/pm_online/hs.xsl/9394_DEU_HTML.htm
Oh my God !
Who said histtory doesn't repeat itself ?!
Very awesome...thank you for posting. They are to be commended for their efforts.
Who comes more awful than an army in battle array?
Somebody is going to find or create something to neutralize radiation. It's probably already here. GO FIND IT you geniuses, and let me know when you do, w/o multinational involvement or patents or any of the stuff that kills folk.
is it magnesium, shilijit, hawthorn? Is it chemical, mechanical?
JFC...you and the power of your "imagination."
How about STFU?
NY Times reports that drinking water in Tokyo is unsafe for children. They state the levels should not be as high as they are of as predicted.. Bottled water being brought in.
The bottled water put out by the Tokyo Water Bureau is called Tokyosui
You can't make this shit up...As these people are willing to sacrifice their lives to help humanity, Wall St. is embracing their demise and celebrating the future growth potential it will have on the markets. Well I got a question for all you piece of shit investors that only care about your piece of shit selves... where are they going to build when every place is contaminated? And who will insure these new projects if they are able to rebuild? Riddle me that peckerheads... I swear nothing suprises me any longer when it comes to the greed and audacity of those who will sacrifice someones well being for their own personal gain...
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-stocks-decline-for-a-second-day-2011-03-23?siteid=yhoof
And this is just a decline on one item. Doesn't matter over all. The poor engineers deligated to running it all are the ones that need praise. Fuck the troops.
..and Praise the engineer and techie willing to die for their neighbours. If they live, I'm offering a fully paid house in the Ottawa valley with ten acres of land when it is done.
I can think of few things as heroic . These are not instances of split second sacrifices ( I don't mean to disparage sacrifices of this type ) but rather the result of calculated decisions taken fully in the knowledge that death , or grievious bodily harm , is high probable . I can only imagine how emotionally and psychologically difficult it must be to work hour after hour , day after day , aware that your body is being exposed to levels of radiation that , potentially , are killing you bit by bit . A harrowing , but very uplifting example of self-sacrifice . Ganbare to them all .
God bless these heroes. The global crisis began with the burden being thrust onto the backs of the common people. It will end with the uncommon courage of the people, like we are seeing with these 50..
There are times when the ordinary are called to the extraordinary by circumstance.
Lead by example gets another crop of supreme standard setters!!
Perhaps these folks ought to be the TEPCO, Hitachi, their associated boards while those currently holding these positions ought to be shipped to assist with operations at the nightmare they created. Fact remains that the current crop of "leaders", be they corporate, financial or government and the investment community that nominally supervise them (ya, due diligence has been rendered a laughing stock) have failed so miserably in their duties & responsibilities. Failed being synonymous with ruinous seditious & treasonous crimes against the Japanese people and indeed the whole of world society. Gotta save the bankstas, corporatist fucktards and their economic pole smokers at all costs. (Give Warren a bib)
Fuck these fucking fucked up punk motherfuckers. There are still lamp posts in Tokyo .... Even if they're shut off on occasion. Absent that perhaps it's time for Clavell's Toranga to bury these real life "Ishido's", who have chosen kidnapping on a grand scale, up to their necks so passerby can saw at them.
Does the Japanese monarch have the stones to do what must be done? So far it doesn't look promising, just like everywhere else.
Riskless risk my ass!
As these fifty demonstrate what real stones are in the face of supreme adversity. Salute!!
Taken from Putzmeister company website:
(Translated with Google-Translate and by me)
Putzmeister pump for Japan
Nürtinger newspaper, 22.03.2011
Equipment of Aichtal company provides assistance in Fukushima
In the wrecked nuclear power station Fukushima it's all about cooling the fuel rods so that it does not lead to meltdown. At the forefront since yesterday, a Putzmeister pump is in operation.
Aichtal / FUKUSHIMA (bg).
The 58-meter pump is actually a concrete pump, says technical manager of the company, Dr. Gerald Karch, about the equipment. It is however also possible to pump water with it. The pump is mounted on a five-axle truck and is jointly powered by its diesel engine.
Thus it is independent from an external power supply and can pour 160 cubic meters of water per hour, which is taken from the sea front in Fukushima.
The inestimable value of the pump is that it can be placed exactly over the target via its 58 meters long and remotely controlled manipulator arm.
Since the arm has five joints, the pump easily overcomes obstacles.
To facilitate this process, a camera was installed at the top of the arm.
The machine can be moved as closely as 45 meters to the reactor's cooling pond.
The water is precisely pointed from above at the right place and thus will not be ineffectively dispersed like with the (Tokyo) fire department's water cannons.
First test were undertaken on the recent weekend and as of today the pump is in full operation, says Karch.
...
http://www.pmw.de/cps/rde/xchg/SID-3C6E00FC-4A22BD80/pm_online/hs.xsl/93...
You read it here first on ZH.
Greetings from Germany :-)
About time... I was wandering how come concrete, slurry etc can be pumped at such a lenghts and in fukushima they are not able to do nothing better than spray water from a fireman truck.
"While only praise can be showered on these 50 or so volunteers for the true greater good, the biggest punishment possible should be doled out for those who knowingly let this catastrophe occur, if indeed corners were cut in the design of the NPP, and also for those who continue to lie to the population in an attempt to prevent a panic (yes, we have all heard the Mutual Assured Destruction lies of a government that does "what is best for everyone") while simply allowing an ever greater number of people to succumb to radiation poisoning or worse."
Could not agree with you more and well said. These men are brave and honorable and thoughts are with their family members-- truly a show of human character. It is a shame that it is juxtaposed with the manipulation and lies in covering up the truth by government officials and Tepco/Hitachi senior management. That's the sad reality: those with loving families and certainly not compensated near enough to what they are willing to do go while those who have been compensated enormously continue on with their meaningless lives.
Nothing better than getting "news" from a source a hairline above the National Inquirer and The Globe for credibility. Bravo! Bravo! After you're done reading the article about the mother who gave birth to a martian alien baby, you may want to go to a credible news source for information, perhaps a scientific trade news source.
Noone has died from radioactive exposure from the Fukushima reactor, not a SINGLE person. In fact, the workers will be pulled out of the area after receiving even a dose that would increase incidence of cancer by .1 percent. Nobody has reached that point yet. There is only one word for this drivel: absolute, shameless and utter BULLSHIT.
Tyler, staff at ZH, The only thing going into meltdown is your credibility.
Many are worried about drinking water -
From the Register: www.theregister.co.uk
Article -
Radioactive Tokyo tapwater HARMS BABIES ... if drunk for a yearoooooohhhh!!!! Sounds scary!!!
Quote from James Lovelock:
During an event of enormous human loss (est. 20,000 missing or dead in Japan from the earthquake and resulting tsunami) we have scaremongers whipping the clueless, retarded, and sophomoric into a mad panic stricken buying spree of potassium iodate and MREs on the West coast. I really appreciated ZH's thoughtful analysis in the past of the repeated financial skulldudgery between the governments of the world and the megacompanies they are in bed with - Crony Capitalists and statist jackasses. There are real issues and sources of suffering in this world and we need all guns brought to bear against them. I do not appreciate straight-faced and easily verifiable lies. Please, this is quite enough. You are beyond the point of "benefit of the doubt".
Government and/or nuclear industry paid astroturfer.
this whole fucking site is astroturf.
The dude stated FACTS.
Don't have a piss fit if you don't like them.
Well if yo don't like it then go to your Mainstream Media brainwash and enjoyit.
How about FOX news, they are the worst among the liars.
Put your dick into Sean Hannity's ass if you like.
Your brain is like a shit tsunami.
You call him out as a shill...I respond he stated facts, so your SOLE ALTERNATIVE THOUGHT is that I should go fuck Sean Hannity.
You are what we call a "moron."
If ZH is astroturfed, then the ONLY ALTERNATIVE is to go enjoy MSM.
It's like if Obama is an idiot, then I MUST be a Paylin/Muhcane supporter; there are no other options.
Google "false dilemma" after you google "moron."
The whole point many of us have moved to the Internet (an entire generation or more) is to get the FACTS. When truth and facts are surrepticiously replaced with LIES you might as well put on a wife beater, kick your dog and go live in a trailer, cause you're a Sean Hannity fan too, only a slightly different flavor...
"yo enjoyit, frankenz"
I agree...I don't know if the "real" Tyler Durden is writing these articles, but if not he needs to get control over whomever is.
This paranoia has been nonstop since the accident; the world was SUPPOSED TO HAVE ENDED already.
the news flow isn't worsening and hasn't for days but the hysteria here continues to new heights.
I realize more than ever that I have very little in common even with the self-proclaimed smart.
Maybe it's because you're self-delusional?
Can you please point me to a "credible news source." Is it Fox News or MSNBC? is it NPR or Bloomberg or CNBC?
Some might call this fearmongering. Hell, some might of called it fearmongering if these reports came out in the first days of Chernobyl -- if anyone actually knew there was a nuclear disaster in the first ten days of Chernobyl. I think given governments' past history of supressing news of these events it is prudent to err on the side of worst case scenarios until you know otherwise.
the real question is whether you could have packed any MORE logical fallacies into that post than you did.
http://web.mit.edu/nse/newsandmedia/news.html
http://www.scribd.com/doc/49342634/Introduction-to-Nuclear-Engineering-J...
http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/default.aspx
http://www.theregister.co.uk/
Try these, that is, if you can formulate complex logical thoughts beyond what you've demonstrated so far.
Read my blog at: www.freedomofoceania.blogspot.com
Yeah, checked them out. They appear to be about as credible as the SEC when they tell us everything is hunky dory in the markets or as credible as the disclaimer on a bottle of milk -- you know the one that says studies show milk from cows treated with RBsT is not unhealthy even though it produces milk from cows with festering cancerous udders that must be treated with anti-biotics to offset the effects of the puss that winds up in your milk. Maybe they are even as credible as BP and the Coast Guard when they told us 500 barrels of oil a day were spewing from the oil rig.
Besides that I enjoy your attempts at intellectual imperialism. Let me go see if I can form a complex logical thought -- will probably just end up being another logical fallacy but maybe, if I'm lucky, I can at least get to a complex logical fallacy.
Sockpuppets ramping up their attacks on ZH. Must....attack...ZH...normalcy bias program running....MarketWatch...please help....
you people come to a "counterculture" website SEEKING AN ECHO CHAMBER.
What the FUCK is wrong with you?
It's not an echo chamber with you here to provide balance.
+ 1,000,000
Nice. :-)
.
..
Solid point.
In actuality I think it is your arrogance, rather than dissent that attracts the flak.
Pigface -
I see you have real trouble with your motor skills and/or the operation of your mouse - and, of course, I'm referring to that small lump-thing in your right palm, which you have probably worked to death. Maybe you need a new mouse?
If not, I'd suggest looking at some typing classes at DeVry.
http://degreedirectory.org/articles/Computer_Typing_Classes_Frequently_A...
You rang?
Sockpuppet aye? I've been posting on ZH from almost the very beginning, before you even, SON!
del
OK, enough whining and ranting, Hawaii Trading made a donation of 15,000 Japan Airline Miles to help Japan recovery, JAL turns that into 15,000 Yen and donates to earthquake survivors.
don't fly JAL?
See if your frequent flyer program has anything similar.
Links for JAL and the Japanese "Red Cross" here
http://oahutrading.blogspot.com/2011/03/donation-to-japan.html
It's all about Japan (asian trading)...any smoke, steam, extra radiation will prompt then Japanese government to seal that junk heap at fukushima
doesn't matter.
Did anyone buy Jap nuke dip? making new high is just matter of time.
God bless you, "tyler durden".. You are as much a hero to humanity as anyone.
I AM CHUMBADUMBA!
Edit sorry dbl post
I am sure they are happy knowing they are dying to put money in Buffet's pocket and for the continuation of a corrupt corporation.
Gary Null has a great piece on the nuclear industry. Check out the broadcasts on 3/21/2011, 3/22/2011 and 3/23/2011. He is pretty thorough at debunking all the industry propaganda
http://www.progressiveradionetwork.com/the-gary-null-show-wnye/
Well done ZH.
If one is looking for an echo chamber echo chamber echo chamber please go to the MSM where your daily valium and KY jelly is waiting, please enjoy the ride. You have in the past.
Nothing riles people more than when their concept of normal is challenged and trashed.
THESE should be the 50. This pisses me off so much.
And where are the f*king robots???
The claim that no one has died from radioactivity in the Fukushima disaster is false.
In Germany all major TV stations report that 5 people that have worked in the plant have already died and 15 are seriously ill.
It's also reported that TEPCO has asked banks for $18,2 billion (€13 billion) in loans to be paid by the end of March at the latest.
http://www.n-tv.de/mediathek/videos/panorama/Fukushima-Helfer-ohne-Wahl-...
I am sorry butSgtShaftoe and assorted socpuppets, shills and nuclear industry worry worts will never ever accept this type of data.
Only dead bodies next to a geiger counter will suffice.
Impossible. That contradicts SgtShaftoe.
Noone has died from radioactive exposure from the Fukushima reactor, not a SINGLE person. In fact, the workers will be pulled out of the area after receiving even a dose that would increase incidence of cancer by .1 percent. Nobody has reached that point yet. There is only one word for this drivel: absolute, shameless and utter BULLSHIT.
Seriously we have a question of fact here. It should be resolved soon enough. It certainly was when bullshitter IQ145 was making similar absolute statements last week about ABSOLUTELY nothing to worry about.
12 pictures from inside the Fukushima 1 powerplant.
http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-66056.html
Hats off, gentlemen, ladies.
We are witness's to this Modern day human sacrifice.
This is Survivors guilt, as we participate in disgusted horror of what we have done too ourselves.
This is the Value of human endeavor, solely based on profit analysis. "We" erroneously calculate No cost if it's not directly going to affect the universal "me". FTW.
I would have liked to have seen a 15 minutes youtube interview with each of these men. Why are you doing this? At what cost to you, your families? How do you want to be remembered? How will you personally benefit from this? Are you fully informed that this is your last job? Please try to remove some of our fear and doubt, that you haven't been lied too, or coerced into participating in this human sacrifice.
Instead we are left with a most uncomfortable silence.
Then the ZH collective say buy the blood bath in uranium stocks.
dude, be feelin' as guilty as you'd need. NO-FEEL MORE GUILTY. That'll make u feel better.
Youtube interview? wtf???
- Ned
The banks that TEPCO asked for loans are:
Sumitomo Mitsui, Mizuho and Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi.
http://www.n-tv.de/wirtschaft/Tepco-will-Notkredite-article2920756.html
More videos about the drinking water problem in Tokyo and the affected water purification plant in the north of Tokyo:
http://www.n-tv.de/mediathek/videos/panorama/Tokioter-Babys-in-Gefahr-ar...
Maybe people here are familiar with this article written in the Japan Times in 2004 by Leuren Moret...it is very prescient and quite detailed:
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fl20040523x2.html
As five are reported dead, will nuclear officials ever reveal the true heroics of Japan's 'Fukushima Fifty'?They are an anonymous band of lower and mid-level managers who are risking their lives at the very heart of Japan’s nuclear crisis.
But as the stricken reactors at the Fukushima nuclear plant appears to stabilise, plant owners are still remaining tight-lipped about the so-called 'Fukushima Fifty' - the heroes fighting to save Japan from nuclear catastrophe.
Fifty essential workers stayed behind to stop a catastrophic meltdown at the plant, as 750 of their colleagues were evacuated earlier this week when the over-heating seemed to be getting out of control.
Five are now believed to have died, 15 are injured and others have said they know the radiation will kill them as they battle to cool overheating reactors and spent fuel rods.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1367929/Japan-nuclear-power-plant-As-5-dead-officials-reveal-Fukushima-Fiftys-heroics.html#ixzz1HTMkwxv7Having worked in the industry for several years, I am not totally against nuclear power. However, unlike a lot of industries out there that use flammable, toxic, explosive and environmentally harmful processes and materials, nuclear is singular that in some circumstances its process and therefore its potential damage is relatively unlimited. The main problem with the industry is the thing that makes it viable...a chain reaction. The inability to shut down a reaction, or contain the events following a cooling or power problem, is what keeps nuclear engineers up at night. And as history has shown, when these things go out of control, the only possible way to stem the unthinkable are doing things that involve human sacrifice. I still think there is a decent chance the Fukashima reactors will be contained, but I also realize that an industry that relies ultimately on the bravery of men to stop the potentially unstoppable, is an industry that must evolve, or cease to exist.
Bravo, well said.
I cannot say how how much I appreciate your final sentence.
To be brutally honest, you do know how surprised I am to have written it.
No one is getting killed with radiation.
One guy caught a 3-times-annual-max dose. Shit happens.
15 REM. 106,300,000 nanoSieverts, more precisely.
Compared with burning down the whole goaddamn planet with coal and oil ???
If you can't bust up a nuke with a 9.0 earhtquake and a 75-foot tsunami, fuck all. Let 'er rip !
Yes, that.
Quoting in full since I'm assuming you'll get 50 junks for bringing reality into this "discussion".
Except here he reveals the motivation behind his posts. Shill for the nuclear power industry, in damage control mode it seems.
Now as it turns out I am not against nuclear power generation using modern technology and sensible location of same. But I am also all for transparency, honesty so that informed decisions can be made. The nuclear power industry has however been in full cover up mode since 1955 with a never ending litany of accidents covered up in that time.
It's possible he could be a shill, but the paid shills usually use much simpler, baser statements that can be understood by their intended audience of idiots. I'm going to assume he isn't a shill.
Seriously, what else do you think would survive a 9.0 earthquake and a 75' wave? Name anything else in civilian engineering of buildings built to that standard.
I am all for appropriate (i.e. stricter and transparent) regulation of the nuke industry, but the general public simply isn't smart enough to make "informed decisions" on types of power. That's like asking a toddler to explain War And Peace. If you want to limit it to physicists and engineers, maybe we could start talking.
As for the "litany of accidents," let's see a list. US civilian nuclear power has a pretty good safety record, especially if you start comparing the safety records of everything associated with other viable sources of baseload power (*cough* coal mining *cough*).
I'd love to have more hydropower too, but the US and most of the world is fairly maxed out on how much hydropower can be obtained, and the few rivers not yet fully used largely will be by 2020.
I believe we could pull it off as well. I think we have the technology and capability to provide nuclear power safely. The problem I have is in trusting that the industry would use their technology and capability to it's fullest or would they be forced by economics or motivated to maximize profits (socialized losses privatized gains). My guess, as has been proven in the recent past is that those in charge would lean more toward maximizing profits than public safety. As in the past there doesn't seem to ever be any retribution for the occasional catastrophe created.
You also mention hydro and that we will maximize that by 2020. Are you suggesting utilizing the last 23 free flowing rivers left in this country? Have you ever been on any of the free flowing rivers. I've been on the Chattooga. Pretty nice place.
When are we ever going to talk about just using less power? Why is it considered a loss of our freedom to consider conservation. They say we use as much fuel getting our food from crop to table as we use in our cars. Still we throw away 40% of all produce purchased. We buy a Big Mac at McDonalds and get it served in a cardboard collar inside a cardboard box inside a paperbag which has a usefull life of 15 minutes. How much energy does it take to process that paper from pulp?
I live in Brazil for a couple years and a couple tiny things struck me. On one occasion I bought a coke in a shop. When I tried to leave with my coke the guy kept repeating something to me. Finally, I understood. I couldn't leave the store with the bottle. It didn't really put me out too much to sit there and drink it so I could give him back the bottle.
Anyhow, I don't really understand the argument of which energy source is best. They all have their +'s and -'s but it seems too obvious to me that we are using way too much when you see how much incremental risk we have to expose ourselves to to get the next watt (i.e. Fukushima, BP Oil Spill, Iraq War, Libya, etc...).
Nicely stated...
Good exchange to all involved
I pretty much agree with your comments. A few comments: first, the problem with nuclear is not so much the technology as the operation. Well thought out operation procedures have been designed, they just need to be followed. I agree with your point that we have a failure of regulation, which, as in many other industries, is because the regulator has been captured by the supposedly-regulated business.
I'm not proposing damming any more US rivers. The US is just about maxed out on hydropower. I was referring to projects in places like China and Brazil. Hydropower is relatively green but has its own serious consequences, namely flooding long valleys and interfering with fish and other wildlife. Another serious problem is that most reservoirs silt up rapidly and become useless in less than a century. It's usually not practical to dredge them. This brings up issues of the overall energy balance for a hydro-dam approach.
I agree 100% on the usefulness of conservation, but the US since 1980 seems to view that as more awful than kissing your sister. And while it would be very useful, there will still be some fundamental level of power demand, which with current technology is going to be met largely with either coal or nuclear (and some proportion of hydro depending where the demand is located).
NEWS FLASH!!!
Inspired by the Fukushima 50, there now be
"Wall Street 50" - a group of wealthiest people
who would sacrifice themselves to save America
from economic meltdown caused by the GFC.
It is somewhat unclear exactly what radiation levels the workers are exposed to, in part because the figures seem not to be released by TEPCO other than for Mar 15.
Around the time the helicopters were used these figures were given by the NYT.
“Hidehiko Nishiyama, deputy director-general of the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency, said . . .
. . . that radiation of about 250 millisievert an hour had been detected 100 feet above the plant. In the United States the limit for police officers, firefighters and other emergency workers engaged in life-saving activity as a once-in-a-lifetime exposure is equal to being exposed to 250 millisieverts for a full hour. The radiation figures provided by the Japanese Self-Defense Force may provide an indication of why a helicopter turned back on Wednesday from an attempt to dump cold water on a storage pool at the plant.
Defense Minister Toshimi Kitazawa said he had given the go-ahead for the helicopters to drop water as the radiation level was 4.13 millisievert per hour at an altitude of 1,000 feet and 87.7 millisievert at 300 feet.” Kyodonews
Subsequently the UK papers reported a spike. There was a report that the units were not specified in the original official’s release but were subsequently confirmed as mSV not the microsievets usually used in both on site and off site monitoring.
“Later, six fire engines and a water cannon tried to spray the building with 9,000 gallons of water from high pressure hoses. However, radiation levels within the plant rose from 3,700 millisieverts to 4,000 millisieverts an hour immediately afterwards.” Daily mail.
Other reports ex Japan reported the same two numbers but as being microsieverts. A report based on the NISA figures is a peak of 5000microSv presumably at the standard monitoring points.
That seems inconsistent with the levels obtained from the helicopter.
However the measurements on the ground are not at source.
What does Tokyo Power itself say? On the 18th in a press release it gave the figure for the 15th. Three days old! That figure has since been repeated without updates.“At approximately 10AM on March 15th, we observed 400mSv/h at the inland side of the Unit 3 reactor building and 100mSv/h at the inland side of the Unit 4 reactor building.”http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11031803-e.html
There is a map of the standard monitoring points and what is termed the North side which is the closest. Note it is .5km from the nearest reactorNo 2.
http://www.nisa.meti.go.jp/english/files/en20110323-3-3.pdf page four. This is not the same as the monitoring points 1-7 which are further away. I don’t see values for this point in this file (the latest) although radionucleides are given, rather the front gate 1 km from the no 2 reactor near MP6 which is a bit further away. That shows figures from about 230 to 363 microSv in 1 table page 2 but about 12 at MP6 on page 6 for mar 23. There is an inconsistency there.
I see todays Reuters report has apparently been changed from mSV to micro so the value is unremarkable.
Were the NYT Dailymail and Guardian figures reported in the wrong units 1000 x too high?
Not necessarily. If you take the furthest away helicopter figure of 4.13 millisievert per hour at an altitude of 1,000 feet how does that compare with say 1km at the gate? On my calculations about .38 mSV or 380microSV pretty much as normally reported.
However the TEPCO report gives 400mSv/h at the inland side of the Unit 3 reactor building.
Obviously the further away you are the lower the readings. It is not clear just how close they were.
It is all a bit confusing but the workers are not just exposed at a km or so away but also near the reactors. At a 100’ above the buildings we have 250mSV so quite conceivably close to the reactors we could have more than the 400mSv/h TEPCO report and quite possibly much higher figures around four thousand mSV alongside the building but perhaps below the source.
It is odd that the figures are reported in different units. But clearly the radiation would be much higher adjacent the reactors than a km away. I suspect the high reading reported by the Dailymail and Guardian was in the wrong units. Coincidentally however they may be close to the actual levels near the reactors.
Sorry for the long first post but have been trying to reconcile the figures for a while and as it is a bit complex seemed better to step through it.
My heart breaks apart every time I think about Japan. This information brings it to a whole new level.
Bravo to the 50 +++ heroes fighting this battle. Our hearts and souls are with you.
"US Military Considers Evacuations of Yokosuka Japan"
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/US/03/21/japan.military.evacuation/index.html?eref=igoogledmn_topstories
May they be honored!
Some new info about salt encrustation and other things:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/24/world/asia/24nuclear.html
the way they describe the problems with draining the pumps and piping makes the thing sound like a rube goldberg operation in the best of times
It is a typical physical problem of any pressure piping system, air can cause airlocks that must be dealt with. Nuclear reactors are not exempt from the laws of physics and practicality.
Why are people so quick to junk those who are expressing opinions that the Fukushima situation isn't as bad as some here are led to believe?
I don't have enough information or background to comment on how bad things truly are (and frankly I don't believe anyone here has enough information to do anything but speculate) so I appreciate all perspectives on this event. I tend to disregard the end of the world type comments as well as those that are definitively in the "nothing to worry about" camp.
That said, we should welcome some hopeful comments. I know this place is focused on the tails that we encounter in the markets and life in general - that's a valuable thing. However if some of those tails are realized, there will be many ZH readers who suffer as a result.
And for the record, I am not a shill for the nuclear industry nor do I think that this is a non-event. However I welcome the comments of those who do if only because some of the realistic downsides (people like the subject of this thread getting cancer) are horrible to contemplate.
I agree, but read my above critique to the science of.threshold analysis.if you can call it such.
Sakurajima Bitchez!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjf2GXgb_9U
I climbed that bitch once, it blows all the time. ;) (Sakurajima that is).
Radiation already reached Iceland and continental Europe, and is poking the northern part of South America. The Korean Peninsual, PRC and Eastern Russia have noticed the radiation spikes too. Low levels, but still radiation.
A moment of silence is the least one can do at this point...
In other news: EPA just revised, revamped, and "washed" the Radnet homepage this evening which used to show (if you may remember) quite visually, with hovering data reading points, all the non-reporting sites (white flags) and where other station data was being studied (light blue). Now, just co-incidentally, that "old real time system" is tonight replaced with a brand new more modern look... and one that no longer serves any other purpose other than to propagate more propaganda. http://www.epa.gov/japan2011/data-updates.html
Well, good Thursday morning people of Japan:
Steam rising from 4 reactors at Fukushima plant
An NHK helicopter crew has confirmed what appears to be steam rising from No. 1, 2, 3 and 4 reactor buildings at the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.
This is the first time that steam has been seen coming out of the No.1 reactor.
The helicopter crew was filming from a location more than 30 kilometers from the plant shortly before 7:00 AM on Thursday.
The Tokyo Electric Power Company says that black smoke seen rising from the No.3 reactor building on Wednesday was no longer visible as of 6:00 AM Thursday.
Thursday, March 24, 2011 09:31 +0900 (JST)
Notes from Chief Sec Edamo's presser this morn:
"We have been making announcements from the relevant agencies and I have nothing to say. So I will just take your questions."
Huh. That was easy.
BABYLON SUCKS
Selah!
Edamo:
--Rad standards are conservative and assume long term exposure
--Looking into supplies of bottled water from abroad as needed
--Steam is "only natural" but needs to be studied
--Unit 1 temp falling but pressure rising; not yet critical situation
--Unfortunately we are seeing impacts on water and vegetables and these impacts are spreading
--Seeking more inter-agency and cross-organizational coordination
--Political impact needs to be sorted out by each party and local government
TEPCO response to US fears of radiation floating over from Japan:
http://i.imgur.com/jn1S1.gif