Fukushima Raised To Level 6 On INES Scale: Now Officially More "Serious" Than 3 Mile Island

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Thu, 03/24/2011 - 21:50 | 1097876 Bleeping Fed
Bleeping Fed's picture

"Serious Accident" just doesn't come close as a description...

Thu, 03/24/2011 - 21:53 | 1097894 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Isn' that the point?

Thu, 03/24/2011 - 23:42 | 1098301 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kyodo reported that reactor #3 vessel is confirmed breached by the Japanese Government. EOD.

NEWS ADVISORY: Reactor vessel of Fukushima plant No. 3 unit may have been damaged: Gov't panel

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/

Thu, 03/24/2011 - 23:44 | 1098319 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

See the video I posted. No. 2 is breached also.

They're rolling out the admissions of what many have said very slowly.

I wonder how far the radiation in the water and at ground level has really migrated.

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 00:11 | 1098376 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

I wonder how far the radiation in the water and at ground level has really migrated.

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Through rock?

Or is that s sandy shoreline; looks like the entire site was cut back into the rock there at the shore ...

 

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 00:13 | 1098385 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Water travels right through rock. It gets slowed down, and particulate gets filtered ( not radiation, unfortunately), but rock acts like a sieve.

 

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 00:17 | 1098387 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

Water travels right through rock. ...

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Riiiiight ...

 

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 00:18 | 1098399 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Look up 'porosity' and 'permeable' and get back to me.

Most rock types are sedimentary, thus they have porosity and are permeable.

There are a few rock types that are not permeable, but they are more rare.

If you've been out west, say to Nevada, you will understand that much of the ground water has actually leached through lots and lots of bedrock and limestone.

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 00:25 | 1098411 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

Look up 'porosity' and 'permeable' and get back to me.

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Riiiiight ...

 

(I see some wide sweeping 'assumptions' in your thinking and logic; 'handy generalizations' I think they call them)

 

Is that why they're doing all the 'fracking' just to get nat gas?

 

'All rocks are permeable' ... riiiight ....

 

 

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 00:33 | 1098432 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Way to misquote me dumbfuck.

I said most types of rock are water permeable. I didn't say "all rocks are."

Why am I even wasting time discussing this with a moron like you, who can't differentiate the difference between natural gas (a gas, duh) and a liquid such as water?

Did you know that a gas has molecules spread much further apart than a liquid, thus making it far less permeating than liquids are?

Tell you what - fill your house with nat gas and then fill it with water, and let me know how that works out.

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 00:33 | 1098438 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

Way to misquote me dumbfuck.

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Who misquoted - I paraphrased ... know the difference?

I think you're using wide, sweeping generalizations anyway and can be proven wrong once I start citing proper references ...

 

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 00:38 | 1098444 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

You didn't "paraphrase," you stated the opposite of my quote, you fucking imbecile.

Fuck off, wanker.

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 00:37 | 1098446 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

Nice ... back to 7th grade physics for you ...

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 00:48 | 1098464 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Nuking the site with a ground burst would make all this moot, and then we could get on with evaluating the actual effects of full vaporisation of several reactors.    This would be good to add to our database of effects already understood from setting off over a thousand fision and fusion based bombs in the atmosphere since 1945.    In idiocracy speak, y'alls shit is like, all fucked up.

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 01:22 | 1098523 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

Nuking the site with a ground burst ...

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You know, you're onto something; but maybe  it needs to be an underground nuke ... maybe four, one for each reactor/turbine building complex (since the turbine bldgs not contain radioactive cooling/seawater) ... create a large enough 'void' for each to crater into (although it wouldn't be quite as simple as all that) ...

 

 

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 02:19 | 1098582 the mad hatter
the mad hatter's picture

On a side note, saying INES Scale is like saying ATM Machine. It is a little redundant redundant.

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 10:37 | 1099394 Jeff Lebowski
Jeff Lebowski's picture

And you find yourself qualified to correct others?

This isn't an episode on your Saturday morning cartoons, you realize that, right?  An underground nuke would do what?  Disperse radioactive material into the atmosphere or ground water?

Oh, that's right.  You said it would create a large enough void to crater into?  Pray tell where the material removed from the void would go?  It just disappears?

Fail.

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 04:44 | 1098673 fredquimby
fredquimby's picture

No need to nuke the actual site.

Japan sits on a ridge right above a 20,000ft drop off. If you look at the location of all of the recent quakes, they are not on the subduction fault line, they are within the bedrock between the fault and Japan, under and west of Japan.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WPm8NJK8SgA

 

There are people who take the movement of Japan to the East:

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-03-12/world/japan.earthquake.tsunami.earth_...

And the movement of Japan downwards (sinking) after the quake:

www.nyspeed.com/showthread.php?215895-Japan-Sinks-after-8.9-quake-Tsunam...

as confirmation Japan is in a precarious situation and the whole ridge is filling with water prior to collapse.

If the reactors go into meltdown, I would imagine nature will be aided and abetted by the submarine sat at the base of that cliff face that will fire a couple of fat ones at the wall, and the reactors (et al.) will be in under 20,000 ft in seconds. End of problem.

If I were the USA, I know I would have a submarine sat there. Maybe even 3.

I guess it is not a new idea though.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Sinks

For a visual of where actually the Japan quakes are happening within this bedrock ledge have a gander at dutchsinse on YT:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WPm8NJK8SgA

 


 

 

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 06:25 | 1098719 whoopsing
whoopsing's picture

Great link fred!

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 07:14 | 1098739 fredquimby
fredquimby's picture

How about slide 13 to help show what I mean??!!

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learn/topics/Tohoku2011.ppt

 

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 01:06 | 1098504 disfiguredskating
disfiguredskating's picture

Best exchange.  Ever.  I like you both.  Though, if we ever had beers it would be like when the four racists got together at the White House over beers...a lot of pretending shit was OK.

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 01:43 | 1098544 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Normally, I try not to be so dick-ish, but his total arrogance in telling me water I've drank that filtered down through limestone 40 miles from the Colorado River was a hallucination, not to mention that he was misquoting me, pissed me off.

I'm actually pissed off about the Japanese crisis, because it's obvious that tens of millions of Japanese are being lied to about the most fundamental matters concerning their well-being and that of their children.

WilliamBanzai said something two days ago that affected me: "Imagine the mothers in Japan who have no access to bottled water, and have to choose between putting tap water in the rice cooker, or not having their kids eat the next morning." And this is most likely just the start.

Thanks for that geological map, Jim and Phatty.

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 01:50 | 1098563 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

When you're talking rates through sand vs 'bedrock' versus limestone for instance: there are differences ... 'k? Don't need that explained ...

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 03:50 | 1098646 disfiguredskating
disfiguredskating's picture

I agree about the mothers.  When I put my kids to bed at night I hold them and pray I never have to make those choices.  I often take for granted that the hardest part of my day involves which fast food place will win my business. 

The two of you can argue but consider:

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 07:34 | 1098768 writingsonthewall
writingsonthewall's picture

You're an idiot mate - water always finds a way through, over or under.

Otherwise everytime it rained we'd all be drowning.

 

If the rock isn't permeable under fukushima then it will run off into the sea.

Back to 1st grade geography for you pal.

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 08:43 | 1098937 FreeMoney Bernie
FreeMoney Bernie's picture

Now now I want you to apologize and to show that you really mean it give him a 1 way ticket to Tokyo

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 00:40 | 1098448 PhattyBuoy
PhattyBuoy's picture

 

 

It is a beautiful sandy beach ... no rock!

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 00:50 | 1098469 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

http://www.marscigrp.org/japan.jpg

Here, somebody figure out what the plant is sitting on...kinda busy...

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 00:53 | 1098478 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

Looks like it may be sedimentary .. need to verify using Imagej the color code ...

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 01:06 | 1098480 PhattyBuoy
PhattyBuoy's picture

 

 

 

I looked at it with google earth extensively ... you can go up the beach and sit for lunch.

Neogene Sedimentary

 

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 01:10 | 1098508 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

"Hello, McFly - is that you?"

 

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 01:49 | 1098546 avonaltendorf
avonaltendorf's picture

 

.

.

Could be neogene sedimentary, could be igneous. They scraped away the quaternary and poured concrete. We need the original civil engineering plans (in English, prease). Runoff is contaminating the ocean. I think the rest is airborne. Most of the surrounding province is impermeable igneous and metamorphic. They sited this nuclear power station in an appropriate spot IMO.

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 02:03 | 1098573 TheMerryPrankster
TheMerryPrankster's picture

Yeah I guess God or the Universe fucked up by putting that subduction zone so close to that perfectly sited nuclear power station.

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 09:54 | 1099204 BigJim
BigJim's picture

LOL

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 02:26 | 1098578 PhattyBuoy
PhattyBuoy's picture

.

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 00:47 | 1098460 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

Did you know that a gas has molecules spread much further apart

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You're addressing center to center distances ... the molecules themselves are different, much smaller, CH4 - One carbon and four Hydrogen ... H2O has one Oxygen and two Hydrogen ... then look up their weights and atomic numbers ... is CH4 much smaller/larger  ?

 

 

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 19:33 | 1098647 AssFire
AssFire's picture

Yes, It's natural water filtering is what makes Jack Daniels a great product.. well that and the square bottle design that keeps it from rolling out from under my seat when I stop the car quickly.

That being said I am too old for that shit so I stick to the Belevedere.

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 07:14 | 1098740 HardwoodAg
HardwoodAg's picture

Take a few varied rocks. Submerge them for a day in a pool, toilet, pond..whatever. Now blast them with a torch.

 

If they blow up, they were porous. Or you can just do a simple before and after weighting.

 

But exploding rocks is much more exciting

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 19:46 | 1101635 naughtius maximus
naughtius maximus's picture

I take it you've never been inside of a basement.

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 00:11 | 1098377 goldfish1
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BERLIN – Germany is determined to show the world how abandoning nuclear energy can be done.

The world's fourth-largest economy stands alone among leading industrialized nations in its decision to stop using nuclear energy because of its inherent risks. It is betting billions on expanding the use of renewable energy to meet power demands instead.

The transition was supposed to happen slowly over the next 25 years, but is now being accelerated in the wake of Japan's Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant disaster, which Chancellor Angela Merkel has called a "catastrophe of apocalyptic dimensions."

 

Are they trying to kill her now?

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 00:21 | 1098382 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

BERLIN – Germany is determined to show the world how abandoning nuclear energy can be done.

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Hype; I thought that they were going to inspect those stations they were presently taking down is all.

 

Boston Globe excerpt:

Nuclear power has been very unpopular in Germany ever since radioactivity from Chernobyl drifted across the country. A center-left government penned a plan a decade ago to abandon the technology for good by 2021, but Merkel’s government last year amended it to extend the plants’ lifetime by an average of 12 years. That extension was put on hold after the March 11 earthquake and tsunami compromised nuclear power plants in Japan, and is being reevaluated as the safety of all of Germany’s nuclear reactors is being rechecked.

 

 

 

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 00:20 | 1098404 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

As reported elsewhere on this thread.  (earlier, actually by TWORIVER and Plumplechook.)

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/index.html

Rolling headlines...  Future not moving.  BofJ and G7 with 100 Trillion yen holding it steady.  Good luck to all.

Thu, 03/24/2011 - 23:57 | 1098320 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

 

So, the three (3) audible booms we heard on the video tape when reactor #3 went, is (probably) the detonations of the following reactor building #3 structures:

 

1) The external Building (evidenced by big fireball on south side)

2) The Light-bulb shaped drywell/containment structure

3) The Reactor vessel proper: causes the dark mushroom 'cloud' seen on the video that rises quickly

 

 

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 00:20 | 1098397 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Unit 5 looking shaky:

"Workers were also trying to fix a pump using an outside power source that had been pumping seawater into the No. 5 reactor, but which stopped Wednesday night.

Figures obtained from instruments indicate that between half to one-third of the approximately 4-meter long fuel rods are exposed, but TEPCO officials do not know what the actual situation is like."

-Asahi Shinbun

http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201103240180.html

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 00:21 | 1098410 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Still no idea what is actually going on in the cores:

"TEPCO officials continue to insist that the No. 1 and No. 3 reactors' containment vessels are sound, even after the outer buildings were damaged due to hydrogen explosions. They also believe that there was no major damage to the No. 2 reactor even though an explosion likely occurred in the suppression pool that lies under the containment vessel.

A TEPCO official said if there had been significant damage "the radiation levels would not have been what was measured so far."

However, there is data that points to partial damage of the core.

One is the detection of radioactive cesium in the outer atmosphere. Cesium is a by-product of nuclear fission involving uranium.

Steam was also released into the atmosphere to prevent damage to containment vessels in which pressure had increased. However, because the steam passes through water, there is a low possibility that cesium was emitted through the release of steam.

There are also questions about what part of the core has been damaged.

According to sources, the weakest link within the core is the sealing material that fills in the space between the containment vessel and airlock door that is opened to enter the core for inspections.

TEPCO officials admit it is possible that other small parts that connect various pieces of equipment may have been damaged."

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 01:12 | 1098427 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

Have you seen the pressure reports (for reactor and containment vessels) in this report:

http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/index.php

 

Like this report:

http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_images/pdf/ENGNEWS01_1301017578P.pdf

 

#3 Pressure / Temperature of the Reactor Pressure Vessel -- UNKNOWN

#3 Containment Vessel Pressure -- Decreasing after increase in Mar., 20th

#3 Reactor pressure (24th 18:00) (A) 0.038MPaG, (B) -0.101MPaG

#3 CV pressure (24th 18:00) 0.107MPaabs

Note: .107 MPascals absolute = approx 14. 7 PSI which is atmospheric press.

 

 

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 01:19 | 1098520 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Yes, but haven't looked for a couple of days.  They need to update unit 5.

Only one of six pressure indicators for units 1-3 reads 'stable'. 

And how's this for a small sign of how FUBAR'd everything is:

"Following the radiation exposure incident, the nuclear agency ordered the utility known as TEPCO to improve radiation management at the power station, where Japan's worst nuclear crisis is unfolding. The operator began removing the highly radioactive water from the site."

Hunh?!??!  They are still just slowly moving from thing 1 to thing 2 to thing 23 as dozens of other things continue to evolve, erode, decay, react, wear, move, weaken, embrittle, encrust (salt crystals), and irradiate all around.  They have one main line--try out the pumps--and if that takes a week or a few weeks, that's what it takes. 

They still have no idea what's even in those buildings.

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 01:26 | 1098530 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

Sadly, for them, I have to agree; they seemingly have no idea what's going on ...

 

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 08:15 | 1098864 MSimon
MSimon's picture

The clue for core damage is I131. There is not much of it in cores/spent fuel that has been shut down for 90 days.

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