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Furious China Responds To Google, Says Search Engine "Totally Wrong" To Stop Censoring
Full press release from Xinhua:
BEIJING, March 23 (Xinhua) -- Google has "violated The
its written promise" and is "totally wrong" by stopping censoring its
Chinese language searching results and blaming China for alleged hacker
attacks, a government official said early Tuesday morning.
official in charge of the Internet bureau under the State Council
Information Office made the comments hours after the online search
service provider announced it has stopped censoring its
Chinese-language search engine Google.cn and is redirecting Chinese
mainland users to a site in Hong Kong.
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press release via SAI
http://english.cctv.com/20100322/103067.shtml
I totally agree with china .
We can't expect to change a culture that was formed by generation in a few short years .
Every1 here in US some how things that there is a only 1 standard of democracy.
It takes time to adopt anything. Look what happened in russia after USSR colapse. It takes generation for people to adapt to new styles.
US was not born democratic country in a short time. Only few decades back blacks were oppressed and now we think that every1 should just embrace our way of living ( of cause if its Goldman sax way of leaving than i agree)
I think you overestimate Democracy. Particularly your own.
Agreed. Not to mention that Democracy is overrated. It's nothing but "tyranny of the majority". And whoever said that the US is democratic? All I'll say to the Google idiots is that those who live in glass houses...
Which is why your Constitution guarantees each State of the Union a Republican Form of Government
“Section. 4.
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened), against domestic Violence.”
I think it a damn shame that the people whom your Constitution seeks to protect do not know the difference between Democracy Government and the safeguards offered by a written constitution. When this distinction is not understood the Constitution and the Republic are in danger.
It is I think worth repeating that the United States of America is not itself a Republic, but each of its component States.
"A republican government"
What a great marvel. You pick between two choices for an office, neither of which share your views, and neither of whom will represent you or enact legislation that helps you or people like you once they are elected.
I have no wish to offend.
But you are confused.
Picking between two “choices” for office is no doubt a form of Democracy. Would that you had more than two to chose from. I think your culture calls this binary.
It is, and I have no doubt on this, the worst form of Democracy.
However, what you describe is the antithesis of Republic.
MB, i'll gently suggest that the use of the term 'republican government' in this context has little to do with the mess of a political party bearing the same name. maybe you know that, but the original dialogue makes more sense with that as a basis.
What the Founding fathers meant was that the USA is a REPUBLIC. This has nothing to do per se with the current mainly two-party system of Democrats and Republicans. The problem is, right now the USA is decided via democracy (majority rules, like the heath care bill), which the Founding Fathers knew too well was not the way to go. Look at the Constitution, Bill of Rights, etc and not even once will you see the word democracy.
The USA Is To Be a Republic
PS: Have been to China and anyone there with 1/2 a brain uses a proxy server so they can see any website without filtering.
So what? Google has the right to do or not do business however they see fit.
Indeed. And so succinct.
I think you may find that China can also “do business however they see fit”.
google is obviously good with a calculator. I agree, if it's somehow worth it to them to tell the censors to get bent, then it's fine with me. I'm not standing on pure principle here, at least not 'freedom of speech' but I am standing on the principle of google can do business where or how they want, or not. I'm sure they are aware that there are consequences to their actions.
I think it has more to do with Sergey Brin, who is Russian born and I think is doing this from idealism/morality (his own anyway).
Roolz is roolz, my brother.
You can't be serious.
China orchestrated a massive and sophisticated attack on Google's computer systems, and they should just sit there and take it ....?!?
How can you seriously expect Google to kowtow to a country that just tried to rape their intellectual property?
Seriously, China has no respect for international copyright laws, intellectual property rights, and quite a number of basic human rights, including freedom of speech.
China's concept of the "rule of law" only includes those laws that the state deems important. We need to wake up and accept that China is not a democracy in the Western sense; the Communist regime has adopted enough of the trappings of capitalism and democracy to allow it to work with the West, but it still hangs the appalling Mao Zedong portrait with pride.
“Seriously, China has no respect for international copyright laws, intellectual property rights, and quite a number of basic human rights, including freedom of speech.” Palpable anger. Excellent. You will of course agree that the USA simply cannot continue to trade with such barbarians.
We should drop them from our Supplier List for a while at the least. They've taken jobs from the U.S. (freely offered, I realize) and offered what in return? The shite on offer at your neighborhood Wallyworld? Obviously, the U.S. producers of electronics (for the easy comparo) cannot compete (seen a Zenith or Emerson product lately?), but I'd bet that if the cost of labor were equal and exchange rates ratcheted, we certainly rule in terms of concept and execution, e.g. apple (for all of their faults).
The sooner we take a stand against those a-wholes, the better.
Again. I do seem to be in danger of offending everyone tonight.
The “a-holes” are not in China.
China did not export jobs to China. China willingly imported jobs that were already being exported from the USA.
China was the buyer. Who was the seller?
Au contraire, mon frere. China "lured" jobs by artificially depreciating there currency and costs of labor to foment economic turmoil and hardship to Nascar fans and WalMart addicts.
China had to do nothing to "depreciate" the price of its labor. They had about 1 billion employed who earned very little more than a poor diet on a good day. If they want to eat, they have to work.
On the other hand, in the US we have people who are told it is more dignified to do nothing but still enjoy eating from someone else's table. It will be a real change when the party stops here.
I'm reminded of the dog food story. The two fellows are out with the dogs for a good day of duck hunting. Admiring the work of his friends dog, Barnabus asks about what dog food the dog eats. Jackson, the owner tells him that he feeds the dog Old Red.
"I can't get my dog to eat that brand", the Barnabus tells him.
Jackson tells him, "Mine wouldn't either for about two weeks."
This last go round is really going to cause a lot of people to think about why they are busting their butt and worrying about getting out their "crop", whatever it is. It appears that the rulers have agreed that it is more dignified to draw a shakey check, a housing check, stamps, AFDC, and free, unlimited first class health care.
Just don't worry about any damn "crop". Sell a little herb for cash to pay the cable and cell phone bills. Let those bastards with the pre-existing disease of lazy get accustomed to some Old Roy and let them try to figure out how to buy their own.
Neither does Google, the "do no evil" company is a content theft engine. The only reason they are pulling the plug in China is because they can't succeed, just like the spoiled child who takes his marbles away when he can't win.
It's total BS that Google gives a shit about human rights or censorship.
Agreed with M.L. Especially given the fact that the most of the value of the Google is derived from their intellectual property. Given they did nothing, there would be "Maogle" appearing on the horizon & gunning for their home-turf, western market. I think they made a smart decision and right on time to capitalize on the US protectionist hostility towards China. I am glad that at least someone in this country still understands how top play in the game theory!
a) the first move advantage
b) the firm commitment
c) moving out of prisoner dilemma and getting into a dominant position for the possible game/war of attrition.
Or you could simply sell Opium to the Chinese.
It worked before.
thats why we are still in afgan...
I rather think that this time it is for you.
this is OUR time
90% asleep
9% awake and frustrated
1% laughing at us.
I use G mail. Sometimes, when I log in to G mail, my computer slows way down, and I'll get a bunch of Chinese characters in the browser window up above instead of it saying "Zero Hedge"
There was no evidence that China did it. They denied it themselves. And I believe america has the most and best hackers in the world.
Copyright and IP are for developed countries to enslave the poor. America didn't care about UK's "IP" when it stole their manufacturing technology. And the UK also stole India's textile manufacturing technology. Hypocricy? Yep.
Picasso, if you're going to insist on posting drivel, at least have the decency to proofread your bullshit. My eyes are bleeding.
But you have America.
Are the peasants not allowed say the first thing that comes to mind?
If this is not America what is? Is it something else?
I am given to understand that you have created your own Gods. You call them “American Idols”.
Everyone gets to have free speech and vote.
Why is that a problem?
I'm amused that the two idiots who keep junking everything you say have mistaken that junk flag for a disagree flag. (Rather than counter with a reasoned argument) Obviously, they would suppress your comments if they could. How apropos that they behave this way on a thread about censorship. Amusing.
yours eyes are bleeding" you just got lucky. yesterday the healthcare bill was pushed. Now you can simply go and see a doctor.
Aw, pound the keyboard with your elbows on some other website. You're unreadable.
Meet the huge bubble also known as the self-image of the official China.
China just revauled their currency or someone just got Fired for a fat finger, $CNY is up 5%
http://intelfin.blogspot.com/2010/03/china-just-revauled-there-currency-...
GOOGLE, BITCHES!
now THAT'S Entertainment!
Hmmmm, the pattern would suggest that it's time to for another child's toy covered in some sort of hazardous waste to make its way into the headlines. Mattel fell on the sword last time, maybe this time its Hasbro or Fisher-Price... Ooooo, Gerber?
I would like to know whos confident with their position in goog (s or l) and why.
Long Baidu
China's been working like dogs in exchange for worthless thin air monetary units known as dollars.
When the collapse hits phase II, the paper asset is going the way of the tulip mania
http://funy1.blogspot.com/2010/03/finite-irrationality-of-paper-wealth.html
What we need is an evolution of human behavior in order to lead to a path of freeing people from the bondage of state servitude and back to the pioneer days of self reliance with an ultimate goal of self governance without any form of Government.
These people that voted for the Health Care legislation do not care one bit about the little person.
http://funy1.blogspot.com/2010/03/house-has-dignity.html
Feel free to Paypal me all your worthless thin air monetary units
Find a new bunch of Indians to sponsor the project and the dream of self relying pioneers starts again, just as good as in the old days...
China is like a turtle, always pulling its head inside its shell to hide form the world whenever reality disappoints her.
Now that Bidu is up and running...who needs google. So Bidu becomes a Chinese utility with Government controls and sanctions. Can a young population continue to be suppressed on this level. Sure for now
ah, i guess that covers my comment below.
Exactly. Like any other foreign company in China, once the local copycat is set up, Google knows it has no chance. Instead of whimper and limp along they are going out with a bang and I commend their courage. If they make lots of international noise to gather support they may escape prison unlike the poor guys from Rio Tinto.
I don't know what China's so upset about. All they gotta do is write their own search engine.
It would appear, according to by Missing_Link above that these barbarians only need use the intellectual property they have “stolen” from Goggle.
Now why would one re-invent the wheel if one has stolen the wheel?
and that is what makes them more dangerous than the soviet union....the soviets tried to build, the chinese are just stealing...
if the internet had been this pervasive back in the 80's or the soviets could have held on for 10 more years...it prob would have been interesting...that said, we probably would be more secure...
my opinion is that the war with russia and china has started, but in his case the last thing to happen will be the bullets flying...
my opinion is that "operation aurora" has awakened a patriotic dragon in the commercial security community of not only the US but our traditional allies as well...
this is going to get interesting...
“the chinese are just stealing...”
It is of course a matter of absolute fact that American Corporations do not “steal”.
“my opinion is that the war with russia and china has started”
Apologies. I am not sure I understand you fully.
Do you mean that Russia has begun a war with China? Or do you mean that America is currently engaged in a war with both China & Russia?
I’m afraid I must plead ignorance of "operation aurora".
What can one say? Good luck with that?
Of course I think we are giving as good as we are getting, at least I hope so...but I am concerned that we were not taking this seriously as a country and public until recently...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Aurora
i think it is a free for all between the US and Russia and China with all parties after each other....
the last thing will be bullets...and frankly I could see the US and Russia ending up on the same side against China...
Russia is just playing the role (while still actively engaged to knock us down a few pegs) because they need to keep China worried about us, and Russia biggest concern is China sending 100mm soldiers over the border and killing every single Russian for the resources....face it if it cost China 50mm people to do that it would be a blip on the screen...
“Russia biggest concern is China sending 100mm soldiers over the border and killing every single Russian for the resources”
If one is speaking of war here, and if one puts China in a place where options are desperate, as you proffer, I think China would be better killing 200 million of its own rather than invading a State that has an arsenal of weapons sufficient to destroy China.
I could be mistaken, but I see no reason for Russia to be “concerned” with China.
Resource games may be played. But all out war?
Most unlikely.
Your media may have you believe otherwise. Believe it or believe it not. You are free to do either.
The proplem with the internet is that the same assholes who create dark pools and algo's also create dark fibers and bandwidth default swaps and have thousands of stupid assoles all over the ianna reserved ip addresses spoofing the crap out of everything.
They are also pushing IP6 hard because it's easier to spoof and exploit. I love setting up a system and putting it on the net and avoiding letting it touch verisign and then watching the DoD and Amazon and Google and Inktomi and everybody just FREAK out as they all ask each other to probe me to see which one is allowed in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CYwNWHZuT0
I think this is absolutely retarded from a business perspective...Google is the one that is losing out on the fastest growing internet market in the world, not China. If you want to do business somewhere, you should be willing to follow local laws...
The Macro View
http://themacroview.wordpress.com
Hey, well that principle absolves anyone in the US of the responsibility to do anything but game the system.
And with the byzantine set of laws we have here, that pretty much allows for almost everything.
Never mind that, as far as I know, Google still has their 'Do No Evil' mission statement.
Hey, asshole, go peddle your shitty website somewhere else. Dickhead.
Google/Facebook are CIA, of course China is pissed!!!
China, to get at 'em, buy gold!
There goes yet another US export to China...
Yeah, until recently we had the market cornered in righteous indignation.
I think the US State department may have a legitimate IP claim on this particular use of the phrase "totally wrong".
Some of these comment are truly hilarious. F*** China.
Try this..again
Google is now preparing to leave China as a result of this company’s stubborn refusal to obey Chinese laws. Google is in effect demanding extraterritoriality and immunity to the legal norms of the host nation, a claim which goes back to the unequal treaties imposed by foreign imperialists, notably the British, on China starting in the 19th century. It is not surprising that the Chinese response to this arrogant interference in the internal affairs of a sovereign state has been stern.
We must also recall that Google was founded with the help of the US intelligence community, and is now acting as a virtual arm of the US National Security Agency, the electronic espionage department of the US government. Google-NSA’s arrogance and hypocrisy are unbearable, especially when we bear in mind the countless times that Google search engines have been used to suppress exposés of the US governments false flag operations, most notably 9/11, and other sensitive topics.
There are two sides to the conflict between Google-NSA and China. One is the Great Cyberwall erected by the Chinese government against attempts by the US-UK to capitalize on ethnic and social tensions inside China to launch a color revolution, CIA people power coup, or postmodern putsch. The other aspect is Google’s claim that hackers working for the Chinese government raided Google’s e-mail servers. The second charge has been formally denied by the Chinese.
Even as Google prepares to shut down its Chinese operations, something larger and more sinister is looming. The US Wall Street-controlled media are gearing up to educate the public about imminent cyberwarfare and cyber-conflict. We can sense that Andrew Marshall, the Pentagon’s infamous octogenarian Yoda of the Office of Net Assessment, is playing a key role behind the scenes. This effort was formally launched in May 2009 by none other than Obama, who announced a buildup of US cyberwar assets, illustrating his project with the claim that his own campaign websites had been hacked during the 2008 campaign, prompting him to seek the assistance of FBI, CIA, NSA and the rest.
One highlight of this US propaganda campaign has been a two-hour docudrama special recently repeated several times on CNN on Feb. 20-21, simulating a massive cyber attack on the United States, starting with cell phones and then taking over into computers.[1] The impact of this attack is to shut down telephone communications, followed by airports and rail services, and finally to knock out most of the US electrical power grid, causing panic and chaos. The simulation is presented in the form of a meeting of the National Security Council while the US is under attack. Several protagonists of the 9/11 cover-up were among the starring players, including Jamie Gorelick (playing the US Attorney General), John Negroponte (playing the Secretary of State), and Michael Chertoff (in the role of the National Security Council Director).
Another important sign of the times is a Feb. 28 op-ed in the Washington Post by Admiral Mike McConnell, who headed up the NSA under Clinton, and is now a top executive for Booz Allen Hamilton, one of the military consulting firms which claims to have the greatest expertise in matters of cyber warfare.[2] Admiral McConnell’s basic idea is that cyber war is now upon us, and that the US must respond using the experience of the Cold War as the relevant model.
The results of this campaign of preparatory propaganda can be summed up under four basic points.
One is the relentless exaggeration of what cyber warfare can actually do in its present state. The public is now expected to believe that computer viruses and denial of service attacks can be used to shut down phone service, cripple airports, prevent trains from running, sabotage nuclear reactors, and paralyze power grids over the quasi-totality of the United States. Many of these claims were launched in relatively obscure articles by CIA officials or Wall Street Journal writers. It is not at all clear that cyber warfare can do what these interested parties are alleging. Rather, the best intelligence estimate right now is that we are in the presence of a new wave of cynical and demagogic fear mongering, similar to the weapons of mass distraction charges made by the neocons against Iraq during the buildup of war hysteria in 2002-2003. The idea that cyber warfare can shut down electrical grids very likely belongs in the same category with Tony Blair’s ludicrous charge that Saddam Hussein had the ability to strike London in 45 minutes. It was a fantastic lie.
A second Leitmotiv is the transposition of the terminology and mindset of the Cold War and nuclear confrontation into the modern cyber arena. The CNN simulation works towards refurbishing notions of deterrence, retaliation, and first strike, dressing them up in the trendy jargon of the computer age. Notions of preventive attack and preemptive attack are also being revamped. One big difference which the propagandists do not point out is that, while nuclear war was considered an unthinkable last resort by most government officials, the new propaganda portrays cyberwarfare as not unthinkable at all, but something that can be indulged in with relative impunity.
Very important legal questions arise in this context. Does a cyber attack constitute an armed attack? Can a cyber attack be casus belli, grounds for issuing a declaration of war? Is escalation from computers to bombs legal? Can a cyber attack represent a threat to international peace and security for the purposes of the United Nations charter? Can a cyber attack be used to invoke article V of the NATO treaty, which calls for common defense?
A third aspect of the current media blitz is that a new cast of enemies is being groomed and brought onstage, even as the shadowy adversaries of yesterday are relegated to a less prominent position – at least as far as cyber-aggression is concerned. In the CNN simulation, there is some discussion of a possible role of “Al Qaeda” and “bin Laden” in the ongoing attack. But this idea is brusquely and almost scornfully dismissed with the reply that those guys are known to live in caves, and therefore could hardly have the equipment necessary to carry on cyber warfare, even though they might desire to do so. For the CNN producers and their intelligence community consultants, the targets are clear: Russia (specifically the city of Irkutsk), China, and Sudan are the three countries mentioned as sources of the cyber attacks shutting down the US economy. With this, we have gone far beyond the narrow confines of the Middle East to target the largest country in the world, the largest country in Asia, and the largest country in Africa. The new target list involves two great powers, and not simply Iraq or Iran. We can see bigger and more lunatic adventures being prepared by the US scenario writers.
The fourth unmistakable overtone of the current propaganda barrage is the danger we can sum up under the heading of virtual flag terrorism. The world of cyber warfare is so opaque and recondite for the average person, and solid confirmation of claims so hard to come by, that rogue bureaucrats in the US and British governments will be able to a surge virtually anything with little fear of being refuted. Google accuses China of hacking without offering any convincing proof, and China denies the charge. What is the average person to believe? What prevents hackers in league with invisible government rogue moles at the NSA from deliberately attacking US facilities, and then blaming it on China, thus ginning up a major international provocation with little risk of being caught?
If millions of people are plunged into the dark, if trains and airliners crash, if other disasters occur, it is child’s play to issue a communiqué blaming hackers in the service of the Russian, Chinese, Sudanese, the Iranians, or other governments. The governments accused can certainly issue denials, but it is not clear how such a charge could be convincingly refuted.
The CNN simulation includes a discussion of the difference between location and attribution, meaning that the mere fact that an attack is launched from the country’s territory does not mean that the government is responsible. “Location is not attribution,” intones Secretary of State Negroponte at one point. But we can already hear the voice of the inevitable neocon warmonger asserting à la Bush that no distinction must be made between the servers spreading a destructive virus and the government whose territory harbors those servers. For the neocon, location and attribution are sure to be the same. This opens the possibility of starting a conflict by infiltrating physical provocateurs onto the territory of the targeted nation, and letting them launch a cyber attack from there. Even easier, so-called botnets of captive computers commandeered by trojans and related viruses can be used to launch the attack.
It goes without saying that the beltway bandits and Pentagon contractors are eager to cash in on the lucrative contracts that are now in the offing. More broadly, cyber warfare can be used as a great alibi for purposes of avoiding civil liability in the age of underfunding and asset stripping. When we have the next crash in the Washington DC metro, the management and the National Transportation Safety Board can ignore decades of underfunding and simply blame everything on Russia, China, and the Sudan, and tell the families of the victims to go and sue those governments. It is therefore time to begin a campaign of counter-inoculation of international public opinion against this new set of ominous lies which is being foisted off on the world.
fuck google - i still use yahoo even though they keep fucking with their main page
Ya yahoo stock only went up 17 times in a few years when it first started. All on sparse advertising money and a bunch of free chat rooms. I'm sure they aren't like connected to the fed and free money and powers that be in any way.
GEO
What do you think their final objective is?
The ol switcharoo : Eastasia meet Eurasia (a-la 1984 )
Got to keep us distracted!
Geopol, they could also be preparing us for the unwinnable war, WW3
It would solve a lot of problems for a lot of important players
Getting rid of us useless eaters
hiding and obfuscating finances
solves the employment problem
reindustrializes our country
China may like it too. We dont think like them, so we dont know.
Aint life a great mystery?
War is fine when warring populations are close in levels. The winner takes all stuff leads to an optimal enrichment.
Today, the gap between the different populations means that people who are going to die through the war will be the least consuming section of the world population.
Going after all the hobos in the US wont clear the debt.
not sure who and what mindset has given you (3) junks?
Thank your for your astute observations.
Not sure why this site has this feature invoked,,,Maybe something to do with the FC theme, seems to present no value to me as I consider it... Creates a hiding place for the uninformed...
This marginalizes China ...
... meh. Whatev'. In a year we'll be re-writing the history books anyway. Hard to get excited about this.
Great job Google. It is a shame more American companies don't have the balls that Google has. Most US companies just bend over and take it from the Chinese and let them steal and pirate everything they have just so they can access the "market". Quick update out of the 1.3 billion Chinese only about 200 million have more than a pot to tinkle in.
I for one will make sure I send my money to Google and not say Cisco who is complecent with the Chinese Government in aiding and abetting "Big Brother" spying of their citizens.
BTW - The U.S is a Republic and never was a democracy per se and is heading towards socialism rapidly.
“The U.S is a Republic and never was a democracy per se”
I’m afraid one cannot allow this lie continue.
The US is not a Republic. It is a Federation. Each State within the Federation (a Union of Republics) is guaranteed Republican status by the Federation.
Can I recommend you to your own Constitution?
Section 4 is clear on this.
Foedus taken from Latin means “covenant” or “league", which itself comes from “fides” meaning “faith”.
So one makes a Treaty in “faith” and one, with others, creates a “Federation”.
Having made such Federation those that made it have lost nothing of their origin.
Should the Federation loose “faith” with those who created it then it is clear that the Federation is lost.
LW, thank you. with simply-stated facts and opinions, you have single-handedly shamed a rather boisterous crew in here, and somehow restored some of my optimism. oddly more due to your style than opinions.
i find it fascinating how many people flag you as "junk" for your rational but alternative views - all stated in simple and non-threatening language/tone... in spite of that, too many of their responses are notably emotional and nationalistic.
to be sure, i don't agree with all you have asserted, but your posture is informed and succinct. in the usual pursuit of black and white, you seem comfortable with the reality of grey.
sadly, ignoring this particular discourse, i would hope you would continue to frequent ZH, but expect that you won't bother... (let me know where you go)
we had andy, mscreant, gg, cd, cheeky, etc.... now, all seem to browse by ZH as an afterthought these days. too bad. good dialogue was had. a few gems still in here, though.
re: google, their behavior makes sense *if* we're seeing the whole story. huge market vs huge IP risk. china is probably bummed,if only because they didn't get enough IP in time. 400 million pissed-off chinese inet users probably doesn't help. i acknowledge the NSA/CIA relationship mentioned by geopol above. sure. makes sense. lots of search/behavior info to be gleaned from china too. but the risk is large, and the theory that sergy is being driven by principles holds water with me, as it compliments his business decisions - but it is a business decision.
are we (usa) saints and they're the devils?... hardly. it's cut-throat business. it always has been. wrapped in polite small-talk before the dagger is turned.
yes, i love my country, but very little of what's happening out there has much to do with the sheeple like myself. those that are driving the show may have similar zip-codes, but they are on a different playing field/league.
and clearly our sheeple vote doesn't mean much these days, witness yesterday's legislation.
but 'muddle along' most of us will. picking the battles that make sense. nudging where it might matter. looking for sanity in the chaos. for no other reason than it seems the thing to do.
you're helping. again, tnx.
Thanks for your considered remarks.
I don’t expect everyone to agree with my opinions or views. That would be arrogant.
Must say though, and while this is Fight Club, the vitriol of some responses was surprising.
Perhaps it is that some consider blind rage an advantage in a fight. They are sorely mistaken.
I cannot fathom how my comment immediately above could be flagged as junk three times.
It is neither offensive nor junk.
And some seem to think I am attacking the USA because I suggest a difference between Democracy and Republic.
However, I am not put off and will feel free to comment as I see fit.
I like the cut of your jib, sir.
Terrible job google, for censoring Australian searches but only bitching about it when it comes to China. Great job playing the PR game though, seems like you've tricked a lot of simple people.
Kudos to Google. It is about time companies stood up and said enough is enough. If you want a guaranteed way to lose money and have your technology "stolen", just do business with China.
China is in for a bit of a rude surprise. After "not playing fair" with a pegged exchange rate it now has the problem of too many dollars and a tapped out customer. I'd say China is in as much trouble, if not more, than the US.
Google is a business and the decision they made had nothing to do with their view of the world. They enter China in 2006 and they new the rules ( it was fine for them ).
Some1 claimed they did because of the chines hacking...oh please, hacking is on daily bases everywhere. And google is not your basic credit card company with lame securities. There is a much more to the story than what has been reported.
Anyway i have no problem with doping something big on china to stop the manipulations, but i am not going to fall for "don't do evil". People needs to separate emotions and feelings from the facts and arguments.
One must imagine that it has never crossed your mind that China might just sell the “too many dollars”.
And short of nuclear war there is nothing America can do about it.
Was America not quite happy with a “pegged exchange rate” for over a decade?
Other than your media what makes you think that America is not happy with a pegged exchange rate right now?
oh Dear...I think that I shall have to use force...
I hope china dumps all the world bank data it hacked on the internet. And everyone got to it by using google. Now that would be funny.
boo hoo, fuck the world's sweatshop owner.
And perhaps those who consume its goods.
redundant. It's happening as we speak.
China must really hate our freedom to commit these cyber attacks. Their failure to revalue their currency is also why everyone lost their home and/or job. Why did they do this to us?
Let's declare war on them.
I think they're just lonely off there by themselves, and so in our world we can paint some happy little pinko countries to keep them company. Then we declare war on them.
Let's declare war on them.
They don't have enough oil.
they do have gold though
They did this to us. Lets not blame ourselves. Our greed, our stupidity.
Lets not have truth get in the way of things.
I was dumbed down by the water and the chemtrails between american idol and fox news.
I do not like google...thus I use bing. Please no slams on that. Google cannot rule the internet no matter how much they try. I wonder how Mr schmidt feels as he is being mao maoed? I am no fan of china, one bit. They are about as friendly as a black mambo snake. There can be co-exisistence- only through strength. We have worked ourselves in a cornor. We behave as if we had a choice, we have little. And with this admin which is even more clueless than the last, well try biting the hand that feeds you and see what happens. Lacking strategy, we are at the effect of a very clever power.
frying pan and fire there... given Microsoft's relationship to bing...
i don't know what the hell to do...
This anti-China campaign is about much more than democracy. Do you think the U.S. gives a fuck about democracy? Google is just a tool for the campaign.
A+, Google is a pretext for more actions from political point of view.
It's coming time to Change Eurasia & Eastasia A-La- 1984.
The middle east will become our ally (as it was WWI & coldwar) the Pasific Rim will become the 'enemy' A-La-WWII
GOOG is a total failure (by their standard) in China.
Its search engine market share in China has been up from 30% to whopping 35% for FIVE years. BIDU has been the No.1 there. That's one of reasons they don't care at all.
35% of Chiness market is slightly more than 70% of the web market here in US.
Sometimes numbers alone don't play too good.
Indeed. Things are moving along are they not?
Nothing like an enemy to take your mind off the prize.
Remind me. What are the assets of your Federal Reserve Bank at the moment?
Mortgage backed securities? Commercial paper? Sundry debts that cannot be repaid?
And the liabilities?
That would be your promise to pay for all of it.
And if you can’t pay? Well then, you pay with your precious Democracy.
i must say you sound like you dont live in the US...where do you call home?
actually the federal reserve can pay the debts...its just crushes the dollar to do so...fortunately we parked a bunch of those overseas...
maybe we tricked china into building all our crap so we could take the business away after they got used to it...
that sure would suck for them...500 million pissed off middle class...and an ocean between us...good luck running their army onto our soil...hence their proclivity for cyber..of course we need to destroy our manufacturing facilities in China before they nationalize them...
of course i think folks gave us americans too much credit thinking we the people could be patient enough for this to play out...instead we may have been trumped by the other side giving americans socialists to elect when things got bad, just before we win the whole game and force a reset overseas...we end up getting stuck here at home by idiot john q public falling for the socialist line...
as i have said before, i really hope this is a big game of chicken designed by some really smart gov people to push our economy to the brink betting we can take down China at their tipping point before permanently ruining our own economy...see if we can successfully bring the manufacturing home, we can save our economy....and tank China at the same time...
just my confused rant...i hope we pull it off
we shall see
cold war phase 2? interesting theory.
we all know that both sides are lying through their teeth (econ reports, etc.), but whose *really* holding the better cards?
i like it. i like it.
Hey, Lord Fuckface--isn't it time for you to drag out your prayer rug and mumble at Mecca? You need to do it at least 9 times a day, right? Or haven't your masters come a-knocking yet to chop off your fucking head? Oh, they will, soon enough. Meanwhile, you waste your time baiting Americans with your crap. You need to get your own god-damned house in order, chief.
Wow, what a piece of shit you are, an example of the stupidity and prejudice and overwhelming ignornace and proud of itself. Glad I left the country years ago.
Eloquent. You are a credit to your education.
It is coming time to change Eastasia & Eurasia (1984 - The big switcharoo )
The middle east where our allies in WWI, Switched, WWII, Switched, and again during the cold war.
Soon we will have 'Allies' in the middle east, 'China' & the Pacific Rim will become the Enemy again, A-LA WWII.
Call me crazy, but its closer to the 'Truthiness' we hear spouted all the time.
Pardon me for asking, but is it possible that you MISSPELLED YOUR OWN NAME? Surely a typo my good man.
Au contraire. "Welligton" is a federation with which "n" lost faith and seceded.
Slip of the keyboard I’m afraid.
Damned if I know how to fix it.
Lord welligton you make valid comments . Few see the entirety , many see the parts. We humans have the ability to place our attention where we choose or where others direct it. Attention is one of the great keys to life few have explored. The ability to focus it is paramount to our survival and the key to higher states of conciousness. Keeping a people in a state of fear, is a removal of freedom and facilitates confusion.
As i understand it the air above our heads is chemically treated daily , called chem trails. But the public allows it. We kill for profit in iraq and afghanistan and the public allows it.
Why? Besides being dumbed down , we are all seperate, struggling too hard to care . Nor do we meet at the pickle barrel, and few at community centers.
We lack meeting ground and still are too full of personal desires
I would like to be more proud of the human race
“Attention is one of the great keys to life few have explored”
I agree. Though unfortunately it has been explored by political Svengalis who, and before I am attacked again, are not exclusively American.
God I love Lord Wellington!! I can just picture him down at the local pub, pontificating away, much to everyones dismay............all of a sudden 3 brown missiles smash into his head.
What a waste of Guinness.
I have learned that mixing strong opinion with strong liquor is not a recipe to be encouraged.
However, thank you for your concern.
One possible way for GOOG to win this play.
When the users in China are unable to get access to GOOG, it will cause questions to be asked. Certainly the informed users are aware that there is censorship, but to what extent do they know how widely it is done. Who knows what is left out of the flow to the google.cn user.
However, when GOOG is forced completely off the air, and BIDU remains, will the user then question the BIDU results? Will BIDU results come to be considered unreliable? Is there a better way to demonstrate that the GOOG product is the better one than to demonstrate it have it proved by the govt. And to create the impression that BIDU is not reliable because it is demonstrated to agree to serve a lesser product.
The Chinese internet users are able to use quite a few work around methods to get access without the censorship. Now they will really be incentivized to do it. In that case, BIDU could be the real loser.
Re-directing searches to Hong Kong won't do squat. The Basic Law's national security exception means that Hong Kong is now just another city in China.
More missiles to Taiwan. That's my solution.
How funny that "democratic" and "freedom loving" America has a "One China Policy", even though the self-appointed, answerable to no one Communists have not ruled one square angstrom of Democratic Taiwan ever. Renegade province? Which one is which?
Google whored itself for a while in China. The US Government continues to.
Here's a multiple choice Quiz:
A country has thousands of political prisoners. The government blocks free speech, engages in forced relocations, summary justice, is self-appointed, enriches itself and its cronies at every opportunity, and gunned down peaceful and unarmed Buddhist monks in a massive show of force in the last three years.
Answers:
A) Burma
B) China
C) All of the above.
Bonus question:
Which one gets sanctions, which one gets "constructive engagement" and no sanctions. (Hint: one of them has 1.35 billion potential consumers and is a major buyer of US Debt).
The United States of America, that great beacon of hope, stands for....Not a goddamn fucking thing.
Source for monks? Rest is sensationalist. Free speech by itself doesn't mean anything. Forced relocations happen and have happened in America, especially when we were at their stage of growth. American is generally far more corrupt where it matters -the top. http://exiledonline.com/china-executes-more-corrupt-millionairesmeanwhil...
Nice postcard for "US millionaires/billionaires/trillionaires, stay at home" What is best? A country where entrepreneurship is free of consequences when the milk turns sour or a country where entrepreneurship is string attached with lethal strings like jail or death if your adventure spirit rapes too many people?
"Source for monks?" I believe that even in the US, where the top news item usually centers around a missing four year old white girl or the latest celebrity break-up, this news was covered. September 2007 for one country, April 2008 for the other.
As for the forced relocations, I believe the US offers more than a bag of rice and a jar of cooking oil, or the threat of prison or execution, to those displaced. Corruption at the top? You do not know much about China.
Lord Welli(n)gton - Im loving it, the cut and thrust, the to and fro a breath of fresh air, albeit ironic - was it not Wellington who once said "If I attempted to answer the mass of futile correspondence which surrounds me, I should be debarred from the serious business of campaigning..."
He also said;
"Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must."
I have learned a lot from ZH and I believe I can learn more.
" ... indeed all the business of life, is to endeavor to find out what you don't know by what you do ..."
Isnt Google wonderful!
This guy got it right about Google-China debacle from the get-go of it.
He's the new guru, move on, Cramer
"Crazy Cash" with Ron Frye
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-qWgdH4e0U
"In the following document we will give an insight into the Jewish penetration of the Internet and also show the level of cooperation between leading Jewish Internet entrepreneurs and the racist Jewish Apartheid state of Israel.
The Jews - contrary to the "liberal" views they officially say they profess - in their suppressive acts practically demonstrate that they always seek to dominate the information flow, they don't tolerate any dissent. It is just as when Israel says "Shalom" while Israel's military at the very same time pounds its Arab neighbour states with bombs and missiles."
http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/media/internet/news.php?q=1262024557
Israel aims its nuclear warheads at Europe
http://www.voltairenet.org/article164432.html
Is this bullshit necessary?
Lol, and a sharp wit? I like this guy...
I'm sure I'll use the terms inappropriately, but try to catch my meaning anyway.
We need Rush Limbaugh in the same way we need Michael Moore. Even though you may have utter disdain for one, they are a necessary component for freedom. I fear the day when someone is unable to freely express their opinion.
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