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Gamma Radiation In Fukushima-Downwind Ibaraki Disclosed, 30 Times Above Normal

Tyler Durden's picture




 

For all who have been looking for realtime radiation data from Japan, you are in luck. Or maybe not, as the data unfortunately indicates nothing good. The System for Prediction of Environment Emergency Dose Information (SPEEDI) releases gamma radiation data online. The site is jittery and apparently not suited for major traffic which is why we represent several screen captures of the data. While it is not surprising that according to the website both Miyagi and Fukushima prefectures are entirely "Under Survey" as it makes sense that the government does not want to generate panic, SPEEDI has disclosed some tell-tale data about cities in Ibaraki prefecture, which is just a hundred or so miles north of Tokyo, and is just south of the ill-fated Fukushima prefecture. And the data is stunning: based on a N, NE and NNE wind direction (where it originates), meaning all coming from Fukushima, with a normal reading in the 80 nGy/h range, the city of Kounosu Naka is at 3,024, Kadobe Naka is at 2,416, Isobe Hitachioota is at 1,213 and many others are in the mid to upper triple digit range! Again, this is based on wind coming out of Fukushima and ultimately headed toward the capital. Indicatively, normal terrestrial plus cosmic gamma radiation is about 80 nGy/h.

Below we present screencaptures as of moments ago, as apparently the Japanese government seems to believe that abnormal gamma radiation levels are perfectly notmal:

A map of all prefectures, showing maximum gamma radation readings. Note Ibaraki at 3,024 nGy/h, and Kanagawa right below it (and downwind) at 224 nGy/h compared to low double digts for all other prefecture.

Not surprisingly, Fukushima is completely N/A, as every single reading is Under Survey, also known as censored.

But the stunner is Ibaraki. We will let this one speak for itself:

As a reference, based on background radiation measurements in the lower atmosphere at
different altitudes above sea level up to 1100 m and over the land were
made at a temperate latitude (40°) in the Thessaloniki region, North
Greece, before and after the Chernobyl accident (26 April 1986), using a
portable γ-ray scintillation detector and a Cutie-pie survey
meter with an ionization chamber, the average value of the total
background radiation at ground level was 87 nGy h-1
(10.0 μR h-1, 25 cps), i.e. 60% from terrestrial radiation, 55 nGy h-1 (6.3 μR h-1, 15 cps) and 40% from cosmic radiation, 32 nGy h-1 (3.7 μR h-1,
10 cps), before the Chernobyl accident, while, after it, the total
background radiation was doubled,
due to the long-lived radioactive
fallout suspended in the atmosphere and or deposited onto the ground.

h/t Jon

 

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Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:28 | 1053001 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

trav7777-

listen bitch....

you are my bitch.

shut your stupid mouth.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:46 | 1053139 trav7777
trav7777's picture

fuck off, moron...I really don't care if you follow me all over ZH like a stray dog

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:48 | 1053148 taraxias
taraxias's picture

you are easy to follow because you leave a trail of shit

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:51 | 1053157 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

You obviously do care, and I can't not follow your shit stain as it trails all over these threads.

I don't mind people tracking shit through their own home but please don't spread your stink here.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:12 | 1052949 franzpick
franzpick's picture

Oil braniacs similarly used their 15 minutes of fame during the BP Gulf of Toxico gusher to continually impress each other with how scientifically well the entire disaster was being handled.  Several of us who questioned the stability of the seafloor sands and the possibility of a below sea-floor leak were quickly escorted off of the oildrum.

As the gusher continued, one expert said "For the time being, I'm satisfied to trust in the technical expertise of the engineers".

I responded: "For the time being, the Gulf water and harvest, as well as shore biology and business, are being ruined" - and was immediately drummed out of action.

If the nuclear experts manage an aquatic and atmospheric contamination in similar fashion, there may be no place to hide.

 

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 20:45 | 1052865 JackES
JackES's picture

when disaster happens, no matter it's financial or natural, ZH is always very excited.

Please tell me it's otherwise.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 20:49 | 1052874 taraxias
taraxias's picture

It is otherwise.

It's just most of us on here deal in reality not pixie dust and green unicorns created by money printing.

My prayers go to the people of Japan, I wish their fucking government was more honest with them.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:28 | 1053342 Don Birnam
Don Birnam's picture

+1

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 20:55 | 1052889 Cursive
Cursive's picture

@JackES

Perhaps you mistake actual news reporting for "excitement."  Given that the MSM is intent of keeping us in the dark and running stories about alledge political battles and Lady Gaga's latest outfit, it is stimulating to have someone actually report events.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:04 | 1052917 Judge Judy Scheinlok
Judge Judy Scheinlok's picture

I'll give you stimulation. Judge Judy's swollen ankles. How's that?

You like?

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:05 | 1052919 trav7777
trav7777's picture

No; he's right.  The people here CRAVE disaster and won't waste an opportunity to proclaim TSHTF or TEOTWAWKI.

We had nonstop crazy shit during GOM spill...it was literally the end of the world.  Now, we have the Japan situation and it's time to panic and stock up on iodide.

Radiation levels went DOWN after peak levels following the reported explosion. 

But, it's all a planned conspiracy- we have people here claiming that someone BOMBED the reactors and that "HAARP" caused the quake as part of some NWO conspiracy against Japan.

The biggest joke around here is that RAHM is the one who won't let a crisis go to waste...

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:09 | 1052930 Sweet Chicken
Sweet Chicken's picture

You're right most here want this to escalate. Douche.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:27 | 1053044 Cursive
Cursive's picture

trav7777's at his last 80's party:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scbqkWwrBF4

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:58 | 1053183 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

:)

HeHe

But he's really not that frightening.

He's just another prick with an idea that gives him the right to be superior to you and me.

He doesn't want to talk.

He just wants to beat the shit out of anybody who disagrees.

Sociopath scum basically.

 

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:28 | 1053347 Alienated Serf
Alienated Serf's picture

according to trav, all theories except joos running the world and peak oil are void.

 

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:15 | 1052955 gwar5
gwar5's picture

It's big news.

The bigger the disaster the bigger the news.

The bigger the news the bigger the impact on financials.

The bigger the impact on financials the more it impacts me.

The more it impacts me the more I turn to Zerohedge for analysis because I trust ZH to tell me the truth 24/7. The state run media won't do that.

 

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 20:54 | 1052887 franzpick
franzpick's picture

NIK down another 5%: tragic that it may take a nuclear disaster to finally reveal the obfuscation and lies of the Japanese (and world) media and financial mafia.  ZH news is probably 5 min. ahead of U.S. intelligence, and reveals network news for how little, how late and how wrong it is.

Tried to order KI at 12 online shops, but - all back-ordered - none of which will arrive in 7-9 days.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:17 | 1052978 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

"ZH news is probably 5 min. ahead of U.S. intelligence"

Now that would be disturbing.

I hope trav7777 doesn't see your comment.

Cause you is in fo one can of whoopass.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:35 | 1053376 surfsup
surfsup's picture

trolls go to bed early... 

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 20:56 | 1052893 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

Shit.  Passed on dental x-rays for like 15 years, all for naught.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:21 | 1052990 Cursive
Cursive's picture

I lol'd.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:01 | 1052904 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

So this is no big deal?  Then what in the world was our aircraft carrier running from?

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:12 | 1052947 chump666
chump666's picture

Market is still overpricing risk...

Japan will start sucking out o/s investments now, sinking chunks of Asia.

Oil is still bullish...

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:13 | 1052948 Always Positive
Always Positive's picture

But one has to look on the bright side. For example, if I got radiated and say, grew two heads, then I could kiss twice as many girls, right?

 

PS I had some trouble with the math question to prove I am sufficiently intelligent to participate here.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:33 | 1053072 Cursive
Cursive's picture

@Always Positive

....CNBC on line one....

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:17 | 1052962 Thunder Dome
Thunder Dome's picture

If nothing else explodes overnite, uranium stocks going higher in the morning.  The same posts about toxic air samples were appearing during gulf oil spill. BTFD

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:43 | 1053127 franzpick
franzpick's picture

Sometimes it's better to let Mr. Market give the signals, like the NIK tonight now down again minus 7%.  In Japan, it's a very old and deadly game, called, I think. 'catch the falling sword'.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:17 | 1052967 dwdollar
Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:24 | 1053031 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

wow, article says 3 reactors had hydrogen explosions, 3 have melting fuel rods, and on scale of 1 to 7, 7 being worst, this is 5 or 6, and ex-IAEA guy says worst yet to come...

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:37 | 1053106 Judge Judy Scheinlok
Judge Judy Scheinlok's picture

Relax for christ sakes. It's not like the particle accelerator just created a black hole that is sucking earth into it.

It's just a little radiation. Do you know what 'little' means?

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:02 | 1053215 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

You the Judge.

You think "little" is 100% of the operational nuclear reactors at that plant going native is a "little" problem.

OK

But I think your judgement is poor.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:41 | 1053123 serotonindumptruck
serotonindumptruck's picture

Events are occurring at a more rapid pace lately. Perhaps this is the beginning of TEOTWAWKI.

Embrace those around you. Let them know that you love them. What else can we do?

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:47 | 1053147 trav7777
trav7777's picture

We can PANIC and BUG OUT NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

GFD Eyore...

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:02 | 1053199 serotonindumptruck
serotonindumptruck's picture

I'm not panicking.

Incidentally, do you and yours have a "fallback" position? I have plenty of room available on my 25 acre parcel in North Idaho. Pristine water source, too.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:52 | 1053460 trav7777
trav7777's picture

awesome...how much gold you want for rent?

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 23:37 | 1053737 serotonindumptruck
serotonindumptruck's picture

Gold isn't necessary. However, I will put your ass to work. Everybody carries their own weight.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 23:46 | 1053789 trav7777
trav7777's picture

I usually end up carrying more

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:17 | 1052973 chump666
chump666's picture

3rd explosion...Topix down close to 6% again

YEN crosses going ballistic.

if a nuclear meltdown kicks in, 100% HFT's will sell like crazy on US open.

 

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:18 | 1052980 Gimp
Gimp's picture

BBC America was interviewing some guy in Japan who was explaining that in Japanese culture they do not like to point the finger or blame as it is considered rude therefore the gubbermint was very selective on the words they used regarding the nuke plant that seems to be overheating.   Uh ..its NUCLEAR you dipshits not a gulf oil spill...

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:19 | 1052982 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

I bet at least one of these goes into full meltdown.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:54 | 1053172 franzpick
franzpick's picture

I will not be surprised if the BOJ claims they can control any meltdown condition with helicopter drops of unlimited, freshly minted, liquid assets.  Disappointed, but not surprised.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:29 | 1053052 johnnyj01
johnnyj01's picture

THE ARTICLE AT BUSINESS INSIDER IS TOP NOTCH.  I'M NOT SURE ANYONE CAN SAY EXACTLY HOW MUCH OF THE CORE IS INTACT, BUT IS VERY VERY UNLIKELY THAT ANY MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC HAVE BEEN EXPOSED TO AMOUNTS OF RADIATION THAT WILL HAVE SIGNIFICANT HEALTH EFFECTS.  I've been in the commerical nuclear industry for 25 years.  This guy knows what he talking about. 

 

It kills me to see "experts" compare this to Chernobyl.  In that event, several tons of uranium, plutonium etc. were ejected from core into the atmosphere: propelled by an explosion from a super citical reactor and then a graphite moderator fire. 

 

Here IT'S LIKELY that only relatively small amounts of "shorter lived" isotopes were released.  (Although, some have half lives of seveal years.)  Again, it is  too soon to say definitively.  The data will be released soon.  Although I think some people are going to get more dose than an airline flight, it will not be anyway near that of many helpful medical procedures.  My money is on no significant health effects from the release: let's wait for the definitive data.

 

 

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:34 | 1053077 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

That article on BI is horseshit and the guy who wrote it will not come back to respond to criticism of his now completely debunked load of shit he was peddling earlier.

He basically said the containment wall would not be breached.

How much more wrong could he (and a few here) have been?

 

What about that MIT Professor who wrote soothing words, and had a 'relative' disseminate them for the inTerWebZ, while the truth was that he is a paid mouth for the nuclear industry?

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:49 | 1053151 Muir
Muir's picture

Dont hold back, tell him what you really think.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:52 | 1053162 trav7777
trav7777's picture

dude, as you are obviously THERE at the plant complex to be posting these details for us, how the hell are you withstanding the radiation?

You clearly have what you WANT to be the outcome here...an apocalypse where you can wag your self-righteous finger at those conspiratorial gov't malefactors.

Just admit it, man, you want madmax.

Why haven't you bugged out already??  It's the END OF THE WORLD MAN...Apocalypse UNFOLDING.

Mars is in Uranus and the full moon is coming and the...the MAYANS, man

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:59 | 1053192 Cursive
Cursive's picture

Bro, you've lost all cred in the last 24 hours.  Just drop your trav7777 userid and pick up an alter userid for future purposes.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:04 | 1053228 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

"Bro, you've lost all cred in the last 24 hours."

Are you telling me this fool ever had "cred" here?

 

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:14 | 1053276 Cursive
Cursive's picture

@Lord Wellington

Are you telling me this fool ever had "cred" here?

Never cared for his brash and bash style or his philospohies, but he did have some fans here.  I was never a fan of Cheeky Bastard, but he had his minions as well.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:39 | 1053398 Alienated Serf
Alienated Serf's picture

can you believe he has children?  the poor lil fellas.  :(

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:55 | 1053468 trav7777
trav7777's picture

you're right man...I should have just gone with the crowd and encouraged you idiots to PANIC.

So, mea culpa man.  Now I am on board the madmax train.

BUG OUT NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

EVERYONE RUN FOR THE FUCKING HILLS

DIG UP YOUR SILVER AND RUN

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 00:21 | 1054040 Cursive
Cursive's picture

@trav7777

I should have just gone with the crowd 

At least you're consistent.  You watch what you are told to watch on TV and you cave on your arguments.  Just as I thought.  You're only hear to stir shit.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:28 | 1053336 Sweet Chicken
Sweet Chicken's picture

Is this what Sheen would call "winning"?!

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:37 | 1053380 Don Birnam
Don Birnam's picture

Sorry, Charlie. Gamma radiation can do quite a thorough job disrupting Adonis DNA.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:26 | 1053338 Sweet Chicken
Sweet Chicken's picture

double

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:30 | 1053060 MiningJunkie
MiningJunkie's picture

Where are the Dippers tonight??? The normal recovery suggests higher stock prices, doesn't it? Huh? Doesn't it? Huh? That is what Kramer said! ARRRGHHHHH!!!!

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:36 | 1053086 Monetative Easing
Monetative Easing's picture

I appreciate some of the posts here calling for a more rational approach to analyzing and/or reacting to the scant information we are getting (good on ya Trav).   However I think we can safely say that those responsible for solving the problem are really struggling here. 

 

At this point, it makes no sense to assess blame or judge their actions.  But it makes complete sense for those of us who are aware that tail risk can be really painful to try to understand what we are dealing with here.  Given the events and the fact that those in charge are not in full control, its only natural that people of this ilk will talk of worst case scenarios.  

Finally, thank you to the posters who have attempted to educate the rest of us.  Their posts have gone a long way toward giving perspective and raising the often weak signal/noise ratio on ZH.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:41 | 1053119 taraxias
taraxias's picture

You are far too polite. No one is solving the problem right now, they didn't lose control.....THEY NEVER HAD CONTROL.

All 3 reactors will suffer meltdown. You can figure out on your own what this means, or you can continue to read the shit that trav is posting.

It's your call.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:49 | 1053447 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

+1

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:46 | 1053143 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

"I appreciate some of the posts here calling for a more rational approach to analyzing and/or reacting to the scant information we are getting (good on ya Trav).   However I think we can safely say that those responsible for solving the problem are really struggling here."

Who are you?

trav7777's boss?

 

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:56 | 1053176 Monetative Easing
Monetative Easing's picture

No.  Frankly I think his posting style is a bit abrasive (I suspect he'd take that as a compliment given his posting history and avatar) but he is right.  Hysterics, blaming this on HAARP or the Jews accomplishes nothing but debasing this place.  And when ZH is good, it is one of the best sources for unfiltered info on the interwebs.  Unfortunately those days have become rare over the past year or so.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:08 | 1053245 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

"blaming this on HAARP or the Jews accomplishes nothing but debasing this place"

Well that is a little odd.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

But I didn't see "the Jews" or "on HARRP" mentioned.

Could be wrong. There has been much comment.

But even if there was. It was not pervasive.

You are his boss aren't you.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:56 | 1053179 trav7777
trav7777's picture

don't hate man

LOL

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:07 | 1053241 franzpick
franzpick's picture

Think I recognize both of these guys, who were doing community organizing at the oildrum during the BP spill, who helped everyone keep their perspective as 8 or 10 Exxon-Valdez loads of oil were so scientifically and environmentally managed and contained.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:37 | 1053097 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

I tell ya, if the powers that be put as much effort and money into fixing those power plants as they do to suppressing precious metal prices then we might get somewhere and save Japan from the unthinkable... but that's not what the powers that be want is it 'elites'? The perfect distraction and another load of innocent lives lost to forward the agenda.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:37 | 1053108 SunBlaster
SunBlaster's picture

That LIFE radiation feed in Tokyo went up from 0000,019.70CPM to 0000,020.95CPM in 2 hours after THIRD explosion, not sure how significat this level is?

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:03 | 1053216 Judge Judy Scheinlok
Judge Judy Scheinlok's picture

I don't really care too much for your tone.

I still support nukes in the US.

http://thegazette.com/2011/02/28/more-nuclear-power-in-iowa/

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:30 | 1053350 Trying to Understand
Trying to Understand's picture

1,000 CPM = 1 mR
The maximum recommended dosage of radiation is 5,000 mR/year for radiation workers in the United States and 200 mR/year for non-workers.

Read more: How to Read a Geiger Counter | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_5329248_read-geiger-counter.html#ixzz1Gd1neXkw

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:39 | 1053394 surfsup
surfsup's picture

"That LIFE radiation feed in Tokyo went up from 0000,019.70CPM to 0000,020.95CPM in 2 hours after THIRD explosion, not sure how significat this level is?"

 

Yeah, he was like wtf am I doing here?  Gtf out of Dodge... 

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:40 | 1053114 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Breaking: Godzilla sighted on beach at Fukushima after radiation spike.

Carrier Ronald Reagan re-locating to Pearl Harbor. 

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:42 | 1053124 SunBlaster
SunBlaster's picture
How much radiation exposure is too much?

The following data is from an industry source believed to be reliable.  However, you should verify the following government data.  Additionally, "acceptable" levels of radiation exposure are somewhat subjective, so we encourage you  to research and make your own conclusions as to the maximum levels of radiation exposure which would be acceptable to you:

The US Government recommends that you do not exceed the following maximum dosages of radioactivity:

Occupational             5R/yr = 5,000mR/yr

Non-Occupational   .1R/yr =   100mR/yr

                                                           +   100mR/yr (background)*
                                                                --------------
                                                           =   200mR/yr total

*estimated annual exposure to background radiation


Another way to look at it:

Assume for now that you classify yourself as non-occupational, i.e. you don't work in a field where you handle radioactive materials or are exposed to radioactivity.  Then, if you are exposed to a "hot" rock reading 100mR/hr for 1 hour's length of time, you have already received your maximum recommended annual dosage of 100mR/yr.

This is also equivalent to the dosage you would receive by taking 100 airplane trips per year lasting 4 hours each in a plane flying at 30,000', since that dosage, attributable to cosmic radiation, is at the rate of 250 CPM or .25 mR/hr.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:50 | 1053152 taxpayer102
taxpayer102's picture

From NHK.

Tokyo Electric Power Company says radiation levels reached 8,217 microsieverts per hour near the front gate of the Fukushima No.1 nuclear power station at 8:31 AM Tuesday.

Anyone in this kind of environment would be exposed to more than 3 years' worth of naturally occurring radiation within a single hour.

Tuesday, March 15, 2011 09:29 +0900 (JST)

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:01 | 1053200 Kaiser Zose
Kaiser Zose's picture

If true, that's a big # and would be a game changer...8,217 microSv/hr outside the plant is 821.7 mrem/hr.  As I mentioned above, 5,000 mrem/yr is the US NRC whole-body annual dose limit for occupational exposure.  Far from lethal dose rates but if there is that level at the site egress...not hard to imagine higher dose rates in closer proximity to the Reactor(s). 

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:21 | 1053315 trav7777
trav7777's picture

they are apparently now up from 8.217 mSv as I posted earlier to 400mSv.

They are evacuating 20km.  I would expect that this means that portions of the core have leaked from #2

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:58 | 1053181 Kaiser Zose
Kaiser Zose's picture

I work in the nuke industry - those #s are accurate.  There are also differnt limits for various parts of the body - extremeties, organs.  The 5R/yr is "whole body" dose.  A worker doing a specific job may receive (for example), higher dose to his arm if he is working in vicinity of a point source than his entire body (he may wear some shielding) and might wear special dosimetery to measure dose to different parts of the body in such a case.  It's too soon to conclude anything about containment integrity at any of the 3 Dai'ichi units...I'd suspect that if there is primary containment integrity damage, it would be "cracks" in concrete or at penetrations into primary containment.  That wouldn't be good but would be a significant (and fixable) restriction to environmental release.  The Spent Fuel Pools at U1 and U3 are of concern also.  I don't know how much spent fuel is in them, but assuming they have a considerable amount stored, they at some point have to restore cooling.  Normally there should be redundant pumps and heat exchangers that control pool temp to under 100F.  Assuming they haven't loaded spent fuel into them recently, they would normally have days/weeks to re-establish cooling.  If they have recently refueled, would be more on the order of a day or a few days to reach boiling in the SFP.   This of course assumes that the various explosions haven't caused a leak or blown some water inventory out of the pool.  Easy enough to reflood the pool though...its literally an open pool that you can stand next to and look down into and drop a hose.  A lot of junk probably blown into the pools though, not sure what affect that has had.  Foreign material in there could foul cooling flow were they able to re-establish it.  Of course, we  have no idea what the state of the SFP is, or primary containment, or the Rx's, or really anything.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:02 | 1053202 trav7777
trav7777's picture

naw, man...MUSHROOM CLOUDS

THE END OF THE WORLD

RUN FOR THE HILLS

etc., you got the picture, right?  Do I need to tell you to buy KI and spam?

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:04 | 1053221 davepowers
davepowers's picture

thanks

could you explain in greater detail 1. what problems a 'crack' in the primary containment would pose and 2. how would the crack or defect be 'fixable.'

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 23:53 | 1053853 Kaiser Zose
Kaiser Zose's picture

A crack in containment would allow the higher pressure inside containment to leak out...and as their secondary containment is gone at units 1 and 3...you get the picture.  Optimistically, if it were a crack, say around a seal where a pipe enters containment, there are ways to seal them...but somebody has to take some major dose in all likelihood.  If rad levels are high enough - like if you actually have melted the core, what's leaking out would be too lethal to get near.  If they were really at near 1R/hr at he site boundary, and it were coming from a failed containment penetration seal, the rad dose at the crack would be much, much higher...

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 23:58 | 1053893 Kaiser Zose
Kaiser Zose's picture

would also mention that if the source of radiation offsite is a spent fuel pool...you have to get water back on top of it.  You would eventually refill it given enough time...if the pool is not leaking significantly.  There are procedures to do this and they're not complicated.  Of course if they've drained a pool and exposed spent fuel, its a pretty big volume to refill...they'd need a lot of pressure and water volume to makeup the entire volume, or even half of it.  Typically there is something like 20 feet of water on top of the spent fuel...which provides shielding to reduce dose to about nothing at the fuel pool railing.  If you expose the fuel, you would receive a lethal dose in a matter of minutes, if not faster. 

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:06 | 1053236 Misean
Misean's picture

+1. And of course the spent fuel is in a cooling tank so the high energy decay can occur before being processed for long term storage. The worst thing would be a recent refuel and loss of cooling. Without water, getting near the reservoir would be quite dangerous for several weeks.

Tough to get through the FUD though. Given that people think long halflifes are dangerous, when it's the short ones that really are. And the gamma particle posts have been amusing. And wind direction has as much to do with gamma radiation as it does with the sun's brightness.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:26 | 1053325 franzpick
franzpick's picture

KZ: Thanks for your signal/noise contribution. 

Seriously, all snark aside, is there any such condition as "trained incapacity", wherein experts are taught, or learn, to bring in outside counsel and advice, under unforseen circumstances?

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 23:49 | 1053811 Kaiser Zose
Kaiser Zose's picture

Sort of...in the US we are encouraged to ask for help as soon as possible, in the nuke industry.  Not sure that same philosophy exists over there.  Just speculation, I've never worked in Japan.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:50 | 1053153 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Well, I gotta say that it's so cheery to hear a nuclear expert on BBC opine that based on the events of the last hour, it could be a dirty bomb effect happening right now.

Now, he didn't say "I guarantee it's a dirty bomb effect happening right now," but he did say that it might be one based on reported events and overhead imagery.

 

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:06 | 1053229 trav7777
trav7777's picture

why the fk are you still here??  Didn't I tell you to BUG OUT NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW?

 

Who was the "expert"?  Another lawyer from Greenpeace?

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:09 | 1053252 Misean
Misean's picture

Probably a researcher from University of East Anglia.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:13 | 1053269 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

"Who was the "expert"?  Another lawyer from Greenpeace?"

Peak Oil?

Hate Greenpeace?

Just a paid piece of shit from the "PR" "Industry" trying to save nuclear power.

The check is in the post.

 

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:37 | 1053383 trav7777
trav7777's picture

EVERYTHING is a conspiracy man!

Those who said that 200 uSv was a negligible dose were PAID INDUSTRY SHILLS.  You are so clever, man.  We tried to put one over on you but you found us all out. 

I just wonder how much more the hysterics will get around here now that we have some actually dangerous radiation levels.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 21:54 | 1053167 baconator3000
baconator3000's picture

if you pause a 22 looks like a missile hit it!!omg!

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:00 | 1053189 trillion_dollar...
trillion_dollar_deficit's picture

Five grays will not kill you. I received 46 grays worth of radiation in 23 therapy sessions to my c-spine almost six years ago. Still alive and kicking. They did limit me to below 50 grays do to risks on the spinal cord increasing exponentially after that point.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:04 | 1053223 Cursive
Cursive's picture

Controlled environment.  Were you receiving KI tablets for thyroid blockade during chemo?

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:08 | 1053244 trillion_dollar...
trillion_dollar_deficit's picture

No. It was at MD Anderson, so I trust they knew what they were doing.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:10 | 1053247 trav7777
trav7777's picture

You don't actually have the first clue about radiation, do you?  Unless he was receiving iodated radiological compounds, KI is useless.

A full-body dose of the magnitude he stated would be fatal.  He was, therefore, receiving a very focused application of radiation, as he stated.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:19 | 1053297 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

Peak Oil?

Hate Greenpeace?

Just a paid piece of shit from the "PR" "Industry" trying to save nuclear power.

The check is in the post.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:31 | 1053323 Cursive
Cursive's picture

@trav7777

What is it about "controlled environment" that you do not understand?  Please give me more details on your knowledge of MD Anderson's radiation therapy.  How often are these treatments administered?  What is the duration of each treatment?  What is the minimum time between treatments?  What equipment?  What compounds?  Who are the doctors running this program?  I am proverbial sponge hungry to absord this new knowledge.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:40 | 1053397 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Sure, man.

they use beams of radiation on tumors.  They measure the doses in Grays.  People go back in for more radiation treatments.  Chemo in many cases isn't radiation...iodated radionuclides are most frequently used for imaging purposes in medicine.

There are only very limited circumstances in which KI is useful and that is exclusively confined to radioisotopes of Iodine.  In ALL other cases, KI is useless.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 23:29 | 1053685 Cursive
Cursive's picture

@trav7777

 They measure the doses in Grays.  People go back in for more radiation treatments.

Not ready for primetime.  Concentrate on regaining control of your household TV before you start flaming again.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 23:49 | 1053822 trav7777
trav7777's picture

apparently, you are confused.  I let others use the TV when I am not watching anything.  However, I am usually in the same room, ergo, I am subjected to the nonsense that kids like to watch.

But, I am always tickled at the errant conclusions you guys leap to, so keep them coming

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 00:31 | 1054090 Cursive
Cursive's picture

@trav7777

But, I am always tickled at the errant conclusions you guys leap to, so keep them coming

It is your thought process that is errant.  Look, I think TV is trash, so you are welcome to throw the shit out in this week's garbage haul.  However, if you don't agree that TV is trash, I suggest you buy another TV or maybe another house/apartment where you can escape from the hell of your kids' TV viewing.  For my quality of life and my kids' personal development, I'd prefer that my kids not watch that crap, so that's how I handle that little problem.  You?  You just resort to bitching about it, like you do everything else.  You are a bitch of unbelievable proportions.  Just man up, trav, and tell your kids that shit will rot their brain.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:19 | 1053292 Misean
Misean's picture

Five grays usually are researchers, and will merely disect you on their ship. They wipe your memory before returning you to your bedroom...mostly.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:03 | 1053208 Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture


 

Live Japanese Prime Minister 

www.ustream.tv

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:11 | 1053258 Misean
Misean's picture

ty

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:04 | 1053225 Aristarchan
Aristarchan's picture

Reuters is reporting a fire at the Daiichi number 4 unit....now what?

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:16 | 1053255 Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

Spent fuel is an issue in #4.

They say falling debris was the cause of the fire, hydrogen gas has built up also.

Live feed from outside #4.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NNOrp_83RU

 

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:13 | 1053268 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Panic?

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:17 | 1053289 Aristarchan
Aristarchan's picture

You mean me or them?

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:18 | 1053299 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

Peak Oil?

Hate Greenpeace?

Just a paid piece of shit from the "PR" "Industry" trying to save nuclear power.

The check is in the post.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:42 | 1053403 trav7777
trav7777's picture

wait...I get it...you think Peak Oil is a "theory" or otherwise untrue, right?  Lemme guess, abiotic oil guy?  Someone who doesn't understand the difference between rate of production and reserves?

Either way, this is not the thread to expose your idiocy on these other topics.  This is the thread for your idiocy on nuclear topics.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:56 | 1053467 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

STOP!

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:07 | 1053235 fuu
fuu's picture

Prime Minister just dodged a direct question regarding what is happening at reactor 2. Passed it off to Edano.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:15 | 1053240 SunBlaster
SunBlaster's picture

#1 Water is being injected

#2 Has a crack

#3 Water being injected

#4 is on FIRE :o( (Brand new development)

400 milli severs? of radiation observed at the reactors, def impact human life. 750 evacuated, only 50 people left to cool reactors at the whole site.


Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:17 | 1053294 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Dude, that's like a dozen for each reactor with two left over to get the donuts.  What could go wrong?

Hint: Don't look over at the OTHER TWO and the intermediate waste storage building.  Just....don't.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:19 | 1053296 trav7777
trav7777's picture

400 mSv is very significant and a possible indication that portions of the core or spent fuel have escaped containment from #2.

Fire in #4 apparently began before the #2 explosion

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:20 | 1053304 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

Peak Oil?

Hate Greenpeace?

Just a paid piece of shit from the "PR" "Industry" trying to save nuclear power.

The check is in the post.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:46 | 1053428 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

Lord Wellington.

I don't like you.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:57 | 1053471 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

+++++++++++

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:58 | 1053479 trav7777
trav7777's picture

dude...we got it the 5th time.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:40 | 1053392 franzpick
franzpick's picture

The helicopter drops of unlimited quantities of freshly minted, liquid assets, under the advisement of America's BenHubris, are beginning and can contain all fires in subprime units 1, 2, 3, and 4.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:09 | 1053243 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture

$56 Billion in loans (guarantees?) just went to ZERO.

http://www.gregpalast.com/no-bs-info-on-japan-nuclearobama-invites-tokyo...

 

 

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:11 | 1053248 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

Well, i hate to say it, but the markets (futures and far east) are now looking downright panic stricken sh*t scared (even though it looks like the powers that be are trying to prop them up from collapsing completely).

Looks like Japan's overnight destruction may be a black swan event greater than we could have ever imagined.

With Bernank's wealth affect shot to pieces (his main agenda), what of America now? Dominoes.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:20 | 1053303 Muir
Muir's picture

You mean now??

NKD -8.30% (June nikkei) 10:18 EST

 

could be (bugs bunny immitation)

 

-

 

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:09 | 1053251 trillion_dollar...
trillion_dollar_deficit's picture

Anderson Cooper just said new reports of a fire in reactor four.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:22 | 1053259 Threeggg
Threeggg's picture

Yo !

The NI225 is in meltdown

Down -10.37% right now !

http://www.sgxniftydowfutureslive.com/index_files/DOWFUTURES.htm

Dow futures off a cliff quick     Down  -144

This just out on the Guardian:

Japan radiation leaks feared as nuclear experts point to possible cover-up

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/14/japan-radiation-leak-cover-up

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:25 | 1053320 Muir
Muir's picture

JUne futures 100 lower nikkei

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:11 | 1053260 chump666
chump666's picture

brutal selling...now on, evac fears on reactor

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:13 | 1053270 sgorem
sgorem's picture

"everybody's gotta die sometime Red", btfd, gotta go, popcorn's done......

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:13 | 1053271 infiniti
infiniti's picture

Shit is getting real.

Anybody have a live stream of the reactor site?

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:15 | 1053274 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

Nikkei down nearly 10% (to add to the 5% from yesterday). I think Japan as we know it is gone :-(

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:54 | 1053466 franzpick
franzpick's picture

Well, the N225 is only down 6.45%, but it's closed for chuushoku, a period of respite for the traders to prepare for the next leg down, only 5 min. away.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:16 | 1053281 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Man, that guy on NHK is SWEATING

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:29 | 1053352 infiniti
infiniti's picture

I was thinking the same thing... worst job in the world right now, second only to chief pump engineer, Fukushima nuclear plant #2.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:15 | 1053285 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Guy from Columbia U on Rachel Maddow: Potassium iodide pills are useless, just don't drink the milk. 

Nice touch.

He also said the general population hasn't seen significant exposure.  Still room for crossed fingers......

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:27 | 1053344 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

"just don't drink the milk"

:)

Well if I was there I'd be drinking Saki.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:20 | 1053288 Money Squid
Money Squid's picture

Of the 800 workers, 750 evacuated. Only the 50 working to cool the reactor staying. Evacuation radius up to 20 kilometers. From 20 to 30 km to stay indoors.

CNN has live news feed.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:16 | 1053290 SDRII
SDRII's picture

Guy monitoring Japan newswires and translating RT

www.yokosonews.com/live

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:20 | 1053309 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

What a nightmare. 

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:21 | 1053311 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

Crap, Nothing But Crap will say on tues or weds that the downturn in the Nikkei is a great buying opportunity.

..and that one should BTFD.

 

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:22 | 1053312 SunBlaster
SunBlaster's picture

That LIFE radiation feed in Tokyo went up from 0000,020.95CPM to 0000,021.90CPM in last hour.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:34 | 1053375 Trying to Understand
Trying to Understand's picture

1,000 CPM = 1 mR
The maximum recommended dosage of radiation is 5,000 mR/year for radiation workers in the United States and 200 mR/year for non-workers.

Read more: How to Read a Geiger Counter | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_5329248_read-geiger-counter.html#ixzz1Gd1neXkw

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:21 | 1053313 Yes_Questions
Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:32 | 1053357 infiniti
infiniti's picture

If you are 22km away, are you just going to hang out at the pad with the windows closed? No fukkin way!

 

GTFO, ASAP!!!!!!!

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:37 | 1053378 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture

No doubt!

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:23 | 1053318 vxpatel
vxpatel's picture

They need to go to WalMart and buy duct tape and Sara Wrap, ala Tom Ridge....

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:25 | 1053321 PeterB
PeterB's picture

Here comes the flash crash!

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:23 | 1053322 Salvatore Burns
Salvatore Burns's picture

Nice Repo Man reference.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:24 | 1053328 Aristarchan
Aristarchan's picture

I guess it is never too late to understand the word Corium.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:26 | 1053331 chump666
chump666's picture

PM Kan on wires...says leakage occurring, people in 30km range stay in doors 100+ Km from Tokyo.  Market response leakage = meltdown

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:26 | 1053332 alfred b.
alfred b.'s picture

 

   ALERT  !!!

...during latest news conference, the gov't makes it sound like a reality show that is turning somewhat sour.....BUT what he should be saying is:    take yr money and GET OUT NOW.....!!!

People ought to be leaving in droves.....first Kobe and now this.....just what are u waiting for !!!!!

 

 

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:25 | 1053335 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

Nikkei nearly 11% down. If this isn't game over i don't know what is. We're all going to suffer from this, worldwide.

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:28 | 1053345 PeterB
PeterB's picture

Agree, the great unwind is picking up momentum

Mon, 03/14/2011 - 22:28 | 1053341 Iam_Silverman
Iam_Silverman's picture

This link has some of the newest information available:

http://www.nei.org/newsandevents/information-on-the-japanese-earthquake-...

It also has good (enough) graphics and an explanation of what is going on.

It also says that they have resumed pumping seawater into the drywell to keep the core covered (fuel is now covered = good thing).  Apparent cause of pressure release was due to a faulted safety-relief valve.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!