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Geithner: "Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell" - In Panama
The US signed a tax treaty with Panama yesterday. This is another of
those steps in the right direction toward eliminating offshore bank
accounts of US persons. But this treaty falls far short of its goals in
my opinion.
The full treaty document can be found here. The section that is troubling me is 5(5)(a):
5. Any
request for information made by a Party shall be framed with the
greatest degree of specificity possible. In all cases, such requests
shall specify in writing the following:(a) the identity of the taxpayer whose tax or criminal liability is at issue;
I’m
no lawyer, but my reading of this is that the US has the right to
request information regarding a specific name. But the US does not have
the right to receive information regarding all the other US names that
have accounts in Panama. In order for the US to get information from
Panama it has to first have a probable cause that an individual has an
account; then it must exhaust all possible options to obtain the
information without asking Panama.
While this new treaty does go someway toward closing the window of hot
money bank accounts of US persons in Panama it is just a halfway step.
I’m wondering, "Why"?
The US still has some clout in this matter. They should have insisted
that Panama establish rules that obligated its banks to disclose the
existence of an account and the activity of the account to the IRS for
any person that presents a US passport.
If one had a hot account in Panama this new treaty is cause for some
concern. The window is now open for disclosure. But those account
holders really do not have much to worry about. The chances that the US
will ‘Ask’ are low and Panama is still in ‘Don’t Tell’ mode.
Thanks for the half loaf Tim.
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I am uncomfortable trying to force a soveign nation to provide information on ones personal property. Hot money or not.
This kind of language does not stop the Census Bureau. Why should it stop the Treasury?? The government interprets the law how it wishes against regular Americans even if it is not Constitutional. I don't see this being a hindrance as it places the Federal Governments goose stepping boot in the door. It also guarantees that any of their cronies who have such an account can rest easy because their name won't appear on a generic list by mistake. I am sure Home Land Security will be flooding Panama with requests from their blacklist before you know it. Don't you worry Bruce they will get their man!
Perhaps Tim has a Panamanian account, along with some of his current and past compadres. That might account for what BK sees as a half-hearted attempt. Gotta keep a back door somewhere.
Seriously though, who would have standing to inquire directly as to which of our august public servants and those doing divine work on Wall St. have accounts there?
The tax on incomes (however derived) has destroyed financial privacy, a right that is still unalienable even as few self-serving government tax departments refuse to recognize it.
this tax issue is much bigger and more dangerous than you know. notice the pattern of the big picture. all tax havens have come under trade fire except the islamic ones. know why? it's to enforce (either by fear or deception) zakat. watch carefully where the tax money flows.
http://covert2.wordpress.com
Bruce,
Fuck you, and your desire to 'eliminate offshore bank accounts of US persons'.
This isn't about taxing the offshore accounts of corporate execs, obviously. This is about trying to drain ex-pats with dual citizenship who are moving to Central America in droves to escape the bondage of the Federal Government.
Obviously Bruce doesn't care about expats. He is one of the new york elite, and like all new york liberals he is positive that knows best for everyone, including how much taxes they should have to pay in order to support the system he leeches...er depends on.
CH: For shame. You comment on enough of my stuff to know me pretty well. I don't leech on anyone. Especially not any government. I pay and pay, I do not get. I pay AMT for ten years now. That makes me max tax with no deductions. I pay NYS 8% and local property taxes that would send five kids to school.
This is not about expats. This is about hot money. Big bucks. Not some guy who moves to Costa Rica because it is affordable.
Give me a fucking break..
You come to NY give me a shout. I will show you what an elitist I am. Right now I am going out to dig out flooded drainage ditches. We're having a flood at the farm today. An elitist I am not, a ditch digger I am.
IT IS MOST DEFINITELY ABOUT EXPATS!
You complain about paying AMT and New York taxes, and then want the IRS to force the same kind of slavery on people who don't even live in the country. Instead of cheering the IRS on, you should be cheering Panama on! But you would prefer to impose your misery on those who don't even live in the country.
And for you information, you should try filing taxes in 2 countries with 2 contradictory tax systems, where there is no HR Block or Turbo tax that can do the job, and qualified accountants cost thousands of dollars a year. Why don't you try living in NY when the banks there won't allow you to have an account because of Swiss Law!
Bruce, you are waaay wrong on taxes. The solution is to abolish the IRS and federal income tax the way the founders wanted. Only the states should be raising these levels of taxes, if they really want to.
You just have to think like an elitist. The goals of the parasitic elitist queen bees is to keep people in the club that they want and humiliate anyone that they do not want. It is 7th grade politics. They never grew up.
You can assume that Panama will give the US the names of all US citizens with accounts in their tax avoidance banks. It is then the queen bee's perogative to decide who she wants to prosecute/humiliate and which of her obedient servants she will protect.
The wording of the law only gives cover to the clubbiness of it all. It is a joke within the club.
Have to agree, the wording of this law is to have the appearance of protecting the people that have deposits in Panamanian banks, but in reality they will cooperate fully with the U.S..
I mean after all we helped create that country, built the Panama canal, brought in workers which stayed there then became a burden on their society and were discriminated against, took over the Panama canal and built bases there, helped stage Noriega's coup against Torrijos (actually he died in a plane crash in which his plane reportedly blew up), invaded their country and removed Noriega then held him on trial in the U.S., it goes on and on.
Are you being sarcastic again Bruce, or are you just a lackey for the IRS? I guess you just can't figure out who the enemy is. I'll give you a hint. It isn't Panama, and it isn't "hot money".
Oooh! Who is it, pray tell.
I'll wait here on the edge of my seat for your answer.
And once again; "Thanks BK for doing the work and making the post!
Not all money in Panama is "hot." Many people are just looking to put honest money in non-US banks to protect themselves from the government theft through debasement policies.
Panama has international banks in currencies of your choice. This is more of the same 5 year ongoing capital control policies by the USA. The emergency exits are being locked tight. It speaks volumes about what they expect to happen next.
Capital controls and criminalizing honest people by the real criminals in the government is not a good sign. Next, the Gold Police will be doing random stops and genital pat downs looking for "Evil Hoarders".
Hey out there' anyone know a woman who can secrete a 100 oz goldbar?; just asking in a purely hypothetical way.
I know a chick who put the equivalent of that up her nose.
But that's a different scenario...
That's OK I am moving to Jersey.
The f'ers won't get me.
How many of us would trust our hard-earned dollars to the Panamanians?
I would
Why - you trust Timmy Tooltime Geithner more?
LOL, nope.
Didn't you see "Blow" though? Plus, we already have invaded Panama two or three times in the past 100 years. If enough money leaves the US for Panama, we will again.
i trust jesus. oh wait, a federal prosecutor just told a jury that goldman sachs is jesus!
http://www.businessinsider.com/goldman-sachs-vs-sergey-aleynikov-judas-m...
You mean Jesus had HFT code that could manipulate markets too?
Well, that sure casts a different light on the whole money-changers at the temple episode.
Panama City is the new Hong Kong.
singapore is the same way sort of. You have to show criminal activity. Well if they don't tell you they have an account there, how are you supposed to do that? Chicken/Egg all the way.
If they wanna screw YOU, then they ask about YOU, specifically.
But sure as hell don't want to have to deal with any other names of the rich powerful, politically well connected who, if they screw, automatically turns off the financial gratuities spigot.
The principal of WE can do it but YOU can't is hereby legally codified for the furtherance of the plutocracy.
Follow the money, for Christ's sake.
As always, application of "the law" is selectively biased.
quintango,
1. Fabricate a case, 2. Get a subpena. 3. Take it to the Singapore bank. And, 4. burn the files before Wikileaks gets them.
Maybe the paperwork could be done with ink that disappears in a certain time frame. Such things are available.
Police Panama? With the Chinese running the canal? That is funny. Worthless paper on which nothing can or will happen.