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Geithner on TV – “Keynesian economics has failed”

Bruce Krasting's picture




 

Some refreshing words from the Treasury Secretary, Tim Geithner this morning on Meet the Press. He had this to say: (15:20 into this clip) Note: An 8 second clip of Tim's words: Link

We don’t have the ability (because of the overhang in housing and the problems in the financial sector) to artificially engineer a stronger recovery.

 

Imagine that! Geithner acknowledges what I (and many others) have felt all along. The structural issues in the economy trump the government’s ability to engineer a recovery.

The Fed has taken extraordinary measures on the monetary front. Since
2009 we have had $1.2 trillion of fiscal stimulus measures as well. We
have had TARP and the bailouts of Fannie and Freddie. But the evidence
is clear that it has not worked. Unemployment is today near a record and
the more important measure, U6, is at 16.2% (about where it was a year
ago) Nothing that has been done has moved the needle.

Geithner might have put it differently. He could have really put it on the line. I would have preferred that he had said:

"Keynesian
economics has not worked. At best, it has given us a small reprieve
from the restructuring that must happen. Our government can’t fight the
forces of economics any better than we can fight the forces of nature.
Large stimulus measures will not bring the desired results. We have to
suck it up and take some pain. We can’t go on spending money that we
don’t have to fix a problem that can’t be fixed. If we tried, it would
be just be a waste of time and precious financial resources. We can no longer afford to throw good money after bad."

Of course Tim was not as blunt as that. But read his words. It means the same thing. Sorry Keynesians, I know the truth hurts.

 

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Sun, 07/10/2011 - 20:26 | 1442228 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

From Drudge Report...regular folks are about to start getting clued in....

WASHINGTON (AP) — Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner (GYT'-nur) says many Americans will face hard times for a long time to come.

He says President Barack Obama rescued the United States from a second Great Depression and will keep working to strengthen the economy. But Geithner says will be some time before many people feel like the country is recovering.

Geithner tells NBC's "Meet the Press" that it's a very tough economy. He says that for a lot of people "it's going to feel very hard, harder than anything they've experienced in their lifetime now, for a long time to come."

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 23:33 | 1442589 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

If not for President Zero, our legs would have fallen off and we would have sprouted fishtails and all become mermaids. Prove me wrong.

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 19:42 | 1442179 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

to sum up here is timmy quoted by AP:

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner (GYT'-nur) "says many Americans will face hard times for a long time to come."

Gee and I thought it was a recovery summer.

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 19:53 | 1442191 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

"lies, rumors, gossip...." Monday he will claim he was mis-quoted & taken "out of context". Where's the Dept of Truth when ya need 'em?

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 19:26 | 1442165 pebblewriter
Sun, 07/10/2011 - 19:25 | 1442163 zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

 Keynesian Economics is like Alchemy with platinum substituted for lead.

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 19:12 | 1442146 oldmanagain
oldmanagain's picture

Keynes is not perfect but compared to supply side drivel, it is heaven.

Fees for the poor, tax breaks for the rich has failed.

Plus, Keynes has never been actually tried.

This author once again fails the fact test.

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 19:09 | 1442144 zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

 I too am looking for a second half recovery; second half of the century.

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 19:08 | 1442142 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

brian . you have seen 3 years of just pure keynes gov stimulus..it has not worked you idiot. stop insulting the intelligence of those who read ZH. until you get Angels in gov this is as good as Keynes gets. HE never had a way to run his scheme and at the same time have Angels to run it..like communism it should work until you let people run it.

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 19:14 | 1442141 Jeffersonian
Jeffersonian's picture

Geithner never said a thing about Keynesian economics being a failure in that clip, but if we read between the lines that is good enough to put whatever words we want in Geithner's mouth and then QUOTE it in the headline?!?! Bruce you are lying bastard no better than the News of the World. See ethics 101, journalism 101, and just plain fucking integrity says that when you have a headline "Geithner: "Keynesian economics has failed" than Geithner actually has to have said "Keynesian economics has failed"!!!! Tyler shame on you for running this, and hope it wasn't you that actually came up with that headline. Lose your credibility and this site has nothing. 

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 21:30 | 1442206 Bruce Krasting
Bruce Krasting's picture

Shame on me. A catchy headline. Of all things!

Check my blog. I put words in people's mouths all the time in my titles. I'm just a nasty SOB.

As I went on to describe in the piece, I think Tim's words were an admission that what has been done to date has not addressed the fundamental problems. All they did was create a nine month bump. And that cost a fortune.

The title stands.

bk

Mon, 07/11/2011 - 00:57 | 1442700 bigwavedave
bigwavedave's picture

i for one wont be reading another word of your articles. hows that for a headfake fuckwit?

Mon, 07/11/2011 - 10:59 | 1443762 Bruce Krasting
Bruce Krasting's picture

Adios Dave.

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 19:04 | 1442134 granolageek
granolageek's picture

Geithner is Keynesian the way Greenspan is a Randite. Nobody who jerks off to <i>Atlas Shrugged</i> and then claims that the 2008 clusterf*ck only happened because Greenspan didn't walk the walk has any moral standing to trash Keynes over Geithner.

 

If Greenspan isn't Rand's fault, you can't blame Geithner on Keynes.

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 19:01 | 1442120 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

If a doctor...lawyer...engineer...anybody who has a license made 1/1000th of his "mistakes" they would lose their license, banned for life......no wonder most of the brightest are now heading for Wall Street where you never lose...it's a Win-Win job....the loses are passed on to the taxpayers and the profits are put in yoru pocket.....

Brilliant system!

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 18:58 | 1442119 DosZap
DosZap's picture

"Keynesian economics has not worked. At best, it has given us a small reprieve from the restructuring that must happen. Our government can’t fight the forces of economics any better than we can fight the forces of nature. Large stimulus measures will not bring the desired results. We have to suck it up and take some pain. We can’t go on spending money that we don’t have to fix a problem that can’t be fixed. If we tried, it would be just be a waste of time and precious financial resources. We can no longer afford to throw good money after bad."

 

Uhmmmmmm.........On WE I know that's done this, is YOU, and your Fed buddies,ain't no WE.

Even High School graduates know you have been screwing the pooch..............doesn't take  a degree.

Like YOU did not know this before you put the USA into a position of NO POSSIBLE RECOVERY ever,because of your policies.

Some sheeple, a lot think you foxes were trying to HELP.

Not so, you knew exactly the consequences of running up the deficit to the point where ALL(again, except you & a select group) will  will have to fall on a sword.

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 18:55 | 1442114 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

Keynes is dead his world view has been proven illicit. the idiots who post here on ZH telling us otherwise..are trolls and dishonest people.

brainwashed zombies of a failed scheme used by kleptocrats to steal the wealth of nations.

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 18:33 | 1442087 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

Long term trends:

Crop yields cannot hope to approximate the early easy gains of the last century.

Oops, running out of water. Cheap food is done, utterly done. Unfortunately, we excrement throwing chimps golf clapped anyone with a PHD that assisted in the crime of growing billions of lives with unsustainable practices. WATER BITCHEZZ.

All agriculture is greatly dependent upon cheap energy. Yes, our economy needs cheap oil, but the billions of people who must eat need cheap oil. No oil, no food (bitchezzz)

Fear not, we will solve the fusion problem and have cheap energy and water, but too late to avoid a few billion deaths. Everything is stacked for the great cascading decline. THEN, we will have all the good stuff again, not before. It's all good.

Apocalypse Bitchezzz, you know you love it.

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 18:24 | 1442059 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

too many on ZH today who assume the end results we have today are not the intended result. too few have understood the CFR and IMF the UN..the FED...the insider GOP or Demorats ..dig up a few Nazi or KGB men and they would recognize it all very quickly. economic theory is not what this is all about.

Mon, 07/11/2011 - 00:05 | 1442632 GreenSideUp
GreenSideUp's picture

Exactly.  Little Timmay is just following the script.  

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 18:09 | 1442024 QQQBall
QQQBall's picture

high gas prices and bad weather (again) and economists looking for second 1/2 recovery (again).

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 17:57 | 1442001 The Amazing Reset
The Amazing Reset's picture

All "ISM's" have failed - not just keynsian thought.  The only concept that is working now is heard investments.  China only works because everyone else believes it works.  All money poors into China and all looks good.  China and others will fall away as they too become expensive and ROI becomes small to other heard investment options.  Of course calling these "investments" is an insult to the very nature of its meaning.  I have been working on some pragmatic economics concepts that balance the data of what really works.  It can be found at www.theamazingreset.blogspot.com Love to get feedback from the "Zerohedgers."

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 17:47 | 1441980 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Keynesian economics worked superbly well ...  at creating a whole class of megawealthy.

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 17:33 | 1441956 ThirdCoastSurfer
ThirdCoastSurfer's picture

The shovel ready projects turned out to be continued employment of police and teachers. The school district here was saved yet again for 2011-2012 from a single teacher layoff when another $9 million of "Federal Jobs Funds" came to the rescue. As important as teachers and police are, they do not produce the tangible assets that an economy requires.

One need look no further than the projects completed by the WPA and compare them to what, if anything, the vast amounts of, shovel ready, Keynesian dollars produced over the last 3 years to see why this whole vast experiment is failing and on the path to collapse.   

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 18:24 | 1442058 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

Obama IS FDR. The WPA was just another of his failed dictatorial mandates that utterly failed. The biggest lie in American life is that limp legged braggart dictator did anything but prey on this country for more than a decade. He was, by far, the worst president in American history.

Worst presidents:

1. FDR
2. Obama
3. George W. Bush
4. Lyndon Baines Johnson
5. Carter
6. Nixon
7. Andrew Johnson

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:28 | 1449002 anony
anony's picture

Tied for Number 1:  William Jefferson Clinton {(as a surrogate for the feminazis, whose fight for wimmin's rights was conveniently dismissed by those wimmin because one of their own turned out to be a rug upon which he wiped his feet, who bombed an aspirin factory to distract from his perjury, abuse of power and rapes, and who inspired the passage of NAFTA contributing the loss of millions of U.S. jobs.

For starters....

 

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 20:50 | 1450057 malikai
malikai's picture

Yes, but he brought lots of cocaine in through that little airport in Little Rock. He's got to get some credit for that.

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 21:21 | 1442337 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Lincoln was the worst.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:31 | 1449020 anony
anony's picture

Lincoln spat in the face of the very same principles that the colonists used to force a divorce from King George.

He was the ultimate hypocrite, who, had he been defeated by the then democrats we would today have at least two countries on this part of the continent.  And then let's have seen how a Bernank could fare if he had to contend with a population below the Mason/Dixon line that was not forced as it is today to do his bidding.

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 23:30 | 1442580 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Lincoln was pretty aweful. 

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 19:51 | 1442185 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

Like your list but I'd move LBJ to #2 on the grounds he was the first to use SS intergovernment "borrowing/accounting" to balance the cost of his "great society" while hiding the cost of the Vietnam War off budget. 

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 20:33 | 1442233 hangemhigh
hangemhigh's picture
TO: John_Coltrane
on Sun, 07/10/2011 - 19:51
#1442185

"Like your list but I'd move LBJ to #2 on the grounds he was the first to use SS intergovernment "borrowing/accounting" to balance the cost of his "great society" while hiding the cost of the Vietnam War off budget."  

bravo JC but based on your method of analysis i'd have to move ronnie rayguns into the #3 slot.......

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 23:29 | 1442576 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

based on?

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 17:42 | 1441970 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

As far as teachers are concerned, your point is arguable.  What greater tangible assets are than a nation's young people?

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 11:05 | 1447737 Tsukato
Tsukato's picture

BWAHAHAHA!!! Pull your head outta yer ass! Spent any time lately with americans aged 16-24? Complete lost cause! Better off smokin the whole lot of em.

Mon, 07/11/2011 - 10:49 | 1443694 ThirdCoastSurfer
ThirdCoastSurfer's picture

Your's is a very valid long term view in times of prosperity.
There is no greater asset than successful investment in self perpetuating wealth (more than just money) creation machine.

Sadly though, we spend $100,000+ on public education for each student, 33+% of whom never graduate. If we assume 33% do graduate but are only marginally educated and 33% provide a return, should we continue to invest so much in failing assets and continue not to focus more on those who show promise? Always ensuring that the doors are open for those who wish to improve?

Paying teachers more has failed, reducing class size
failed, is education more a function of employing teachers or of educating children?

A little off subject but they say insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result and yet this is exactly what education has done for decades. Some children will "get" the study of calculus, many will not, is it really so important to our society that every child should be required an understanding of it?
Is it really more of a practical life enhancing subject of study over others for all students?

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 18:09 | 1442025 Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

What greater tangible assets are than a nation's young people?

 

Arguable is correct, an incomplete sentence is not.  If you mean the chronilogically seperated future voting citizens of the republic being spoon fed rebellious attitiudes by union sympathizers being classified as "tangible assets", I object.

 

Families, parents and chronilogically different siblings should have a greater degree of influence on these "assets" than even our hallowed republic, yet alone it's career politicians and their monied (pensioned) interest handlers.  Sovereignty begins at home.  imo.

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 21:19 | 1442333 sellstop
sellstop's picture

And spelling begins in school.

gh

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 17:40 | 1441954 Keith Piccirillo
Keith Piccirillo's picture

Seems to me maybe Keynesian economics would have had a better chance without 2 wars.

See Noam Chomsky and military keynesianism as "The Pentagon System".

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 18:19 | 1442038 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

Over the last 100 years, the Keynesians have always said a bit more sugar would have helped.
If we didn't have two wars going on, we would have more sugar and we would be ok?

The funny thing about government engaging in Keynesian stimulus is that they are never confronted with the reality of what would have happened if they stayed the hell out of the economy and let the inefficient player go bust. They can always claim a victory because there is never any evidence of the the harm they have done, that is until they fail. THEN they claim that more stimulus was needed.

Who are you who are so wise in the way of science? Obviously I just don't get it.

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 18:36 | 1442093 A.W.E.S.O.M.-O 4000
A.W.E.S.O.M.-O 4000's picture

But I think the same can be said for the other side of the argument as well.

 

So the reason we had the worst crisis in 70 years was because we didn't de-regulate / cut taxes during a war(s) enough?

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 23:26 | 1442569 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

The proof was that taxes were cut in the 1980's and the economy boomed. The same thing happened after JFK cut taxes in the 1960's. Ask any businessman if high taxes and more regulations encourages more investment. Obviously you and the Keynesian economists have never run a business or dealt with a real budget.  

Mon, 07/11/2011 - 02:02 | 1442805 A.W.E.S.O.M.-O 4000
A.W.E.S.O.M.-O 4000's picture

The only problem that I have with your "proof" is that the USA went from the world's largest creditor nation to the world's largest debtor nation under Reagan.

Mon, 07/11/2011 - 15:57 | 1445135 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

The only problem that I have with your "proof" is that the USA went from the world's largest creditor nation to the world's largest debtor nation under Reagan.

 

Who cares? Expansion is expansion.

Mon, 07/11/2011 - 00:56 | 1442699 GreenSideUp
GreenSideUp's picture

I don't know why anyone would junk you; you speak the truth.  Income taxes are one thing to a business (and bad enough!), but the onerous regulations that almost always require fees paid to the Almighty State, and assorted other requirements that cost boatloads of money.  

For example, check out the "new EPA rule" for lead based paint.  I don't even think this was properly legislated.  Compliance costs are steep, and I could go on and on about all the other moral hazards this creates, the biggest being that the costs of complying with all this BS can cost you right out of the market.   

http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/renovation.htm

But hey.  It's for the children so I guess it's all good.  

 

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 17:28 | 1441946 Charles Wilson
Charles Wilson's picture

You left out his best quote:

"I also have just heard that now they're getting milk from COWS!!!"

 

CW

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 17:25 | 1441939 equity_momo
equity_momo's picture

Bruce, have they cut that clip? I can only find 5 minutes of footage.

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 20:10 | 1442213 Bruce Krasting
Bruce Krasting's picture

Yes, that is odd isn't it?

Re read this piece now and you will see that I inserted a Youtube link of the 8 seconds where this was said. For your convenience I repeat it here:

link

Mon, 07/11/2011 - 06:57 | 1442971 equity_momo
equity_momo's picture

Thanks Bruce.

Yes very odd. You think someone had an aneurism when they saw those 8 seconds and didnt want it to make the final cut?

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 17:49 | 1441989 malikai
malikai's picture

Same here. But I jut assumed it was because I'm outside the US.

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