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The Genesis Of The Gold-Tungsten: The Rest Of The Story
The Genesis of the Gold-Tungsten: The Rest of the Story; Submitted by Ron Kirby, who first disclosed the LBMA/Physical Bullion disparity story in 2008 and 2009.
h/t RossInvestor
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Well, I can't get the report to load. But, I'll get it later or elsewhere.
Hmm. If this tungsten fakery is at a wholesale level, then THAT would be the brick that BREAKS the camel's back, and it all comes crashing down.
Buy gold now. Not much time.
Scribd sucks a nut. If you have a 64 bit computer, you won't be able to read the article.
Error #2048
http://support.scribd.com/entries/55328-i-m-having-trouble-reading-scrib...
Criticism fail. Works fine on my 7 ultimate x64 Vaio
Oh Canada, what a neat way of debunking the poster and bragging about your computer. The key was the "ultimate" which is either an upgrade or it came standard on a (nearly) top line laptop.
Post a picture, not of the laptop, but of the girls in your avatar. :>)
I didn't know a vaio was something to brag about. I'd hide the fact if it were mine, matter, I'd trash it completely. And that poster Hansel really needs to read this article because she is one of the debunkers of the gold manipulation scheme calling the believers of the piles of hard evidence all kinds of nasty names.
"it came standard on a (nearly) top line laptop."
Sony freaks...
I only use super ultimate gold with platinum plating edition. Because I deserve the best.
Not really. I use linux but I'm not saying what distro because everyone respects my judgement so much they'd all switch to it. LOL
Hi CD, Just to let you know, all versions of Win7 (and Server 2008 too) have been cracked, and are now available for free. Hardware that will run 64 bit O/S is also pretty cheap too (BTW Sony now suck! :-). Like gold plated tungsten, everything is racing to the bottom. How anyone sees the economy recovering is beyond me! I'm a saver, by nature, but I know full well I'm going to be robbed of those savings one way or another!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1263548/Now-did-say-left-car-The...
The Ponzi we call the world economy is on it's last knockings, so why upset yourself!
CD, im all about efficiency!
Doesn't work on my brand new Windows 7 home laptop. Doesn't work on my old gentoo linux amd64 laptop.
Document opens okay on the I7-930 I just put together. Use the 32 bit explorer and you'll be okay.
Firefox baby! No problems there...
"Well, I can't get the report to load"
Click on Tyler's lead line the link and download the pdf. It took two tries but I got it.
I hate the SCRIBD. In the word's of my friend Tom the Fisherman:
"They're a worthless cocksucker..."
Tom is such an eloquent speaker...
This article makes many interesting points but also throws out a boatload of extremely far-fetched conjectures as factual.
Bush I created "Project Hammer" which managed to successfully loot the USSR's Treasury and seize major energy and munitions industries in the Soviet Union? Really?
Far too much wild-eyed conjecture here, and not enough evidence.
Yes - lots of holes/inconsistencies... but some good leads for further research.
Truth is usually stranger than fiction.
Indubitably. Albeit, the conclusion of ExpectedReturns' piece entitled, 'Is A Gold Rally Imminent?' doubtless accidentally strayed into the realm of 'fiction' (hint, it's the last sentence: "Look for rising long-term bong [sic] yields to signal the next major move in gold is near.")...
http://www.expectedreturnsblog.com/2010/03/is-gold-rally-imminent.html
Is this...
http://laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/high-times-cheech-chong.jpg
What ExpectedReturns was talking about?... ;)
"long-term bong [sic] yields"
A Freudian slip perhaps...
Indeed, and the truth is that Gordon Brown never sold the UK's gold. In fact, it's sitting safely in a vault somewhere...for which Mr. Brown no doubt holds the key.
The only problem here is trying to figure out the end game. Clearly, once the world awakens to this fraud of Biblical proportions (actually, a new Bible will have to be written after this is all over) it will be 6.5 billion people against a handful of people who would be Kings of the Earth. How long before they start turning on each other to determine who gets to wear the crown?
Meanwhile, everyone just either goes on with their day--oblivious, blissful, ignorant--while we hurtle towards a conclusion that will leave everyone (even the perpetrators) stunned, or dead.
Many people will die before this is all over. Many. Are you prepared?
I am Chumbawamba.
How long before they start turning on each other to determine who gets to wear the crown?
The real kings are behind the kings and playing all sides as usual.
Quite frankly, I thought Bush's project hammer to destroy and pilfer the old soviet union common knowledge. Guess not. Putin has been lying in wait.
on Sat, 04/03/2010 - 11:43
#285147
This article makes many interesting points but also throws out a boatload of extremely far-fetched conjectures as factual.
Bush I created "Project Hammer" which managed to successfully loot the USSR's Treasury and seize major energy and munitions industries in the Soviet Union? Really?
Far too much wild-eyed conjecture here, and not enough evidence.
Missing_Link,
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/8/18
Yelstin was paid in Vodka?
We bought Russia's freedom...
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release April 1, 1992
FREEDOM SUPPORT ACT OF 1992 FACT SHEET
I. ONCE IN A CENTURY OPPORTUNITY TO CONSOLIDATE FREEDOM
The "FREEDOM Support Act of 1992" provides a flexible framework
to constructively influence the fast-changing and unpredictable
events transforming Russia and Eurasia. The Act will:
http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/offdocs/b920401.htm
We bought China's freedom...
New participants in an emerging market economy have been created, as by the Company Law that became effective in 1994 and by legislation dealing with capital markets. New legal relationships appropriate to a market economy have been defined, as by the General Principles of Civil Law (a truncated civil code) and by laws on contracts that evolved into a new Contract Law that was adopted by the NPC in March 1999, replacing two previous enactments that had separately addressed Sino-foreign contracts and those involving only Chinese parties. n7 The new law represents a further step forward in the attempts of China's law drafters to establish legal institutions that are more compatible with a market rather than with a planned economy. Practice under the law will hereafter determine the extent to which it can stimulate reliance on the legal rules underlying the law of contract. How quickly such a new law can change the mentalities of economic actors, judges and administrators is an altogether different issue.
http://www.freechina.net/2004/comment/00012.htm
the exact road map used? Money... the roads where made of Money... did the U.S.A squeeze the commie pinko's? did the C.I.A. buy people, stock and / or other? YES! on all counts... How many warheads are now pointed at Iran that are not just ours? You think China or Russia will let or want anything to happen to their Biggest and Best customer or consumer of thier goods / services?
The corupt commies want thier monies and we have to be here, healthy and consuming for them to get thier monies... no magic.
Except that Iran is not threatening us.
Loathing over Iran is imbecilic, malinformed paranoid xenophobia.
Get out of their backyard and they won't have to shoot at us with the rock salt.
I am Chumbawamba.
+1000
you are probably right, imo, on investments but you are near certainty on u.s. foreign policy. from your keyboard to yahweh's ear.
"How many warheads are now pointed at Iran that are not just ours? You think China or Russia will let or want anything to happen to their Biggest and Best customer or consumer of thier goods / services?"
Russia and China desire Iran's energy capabilities. They would be stupid to point missiles at it. Guess what? If the US hadn't toppled Saddam Hussein in Iraq, then Iraq would've continued to be the buffer, continuously engaging Iran in pointless strife. Now Iran can be the Shia pillar and have greater influence in the middle east, and it's making the Saudis (those lovers of human rights and freedoms) shit their pants.
As for America being a "Good customer"--we haven't paid for the crap we got. We run a massive trade deficit and we gave them a bunch of t-bills and dollars. Can China buy anything big in the US? No. [remember them wanting to buy Unocal?] If they try to cash in their t-bills, they will cause a crash, rendering their investment worthless. They have been given a white elephant. Why would they stand around waiting to get another one? Those corrupt commies, as you put it, were done in by our even more corrupt oligarchs.
wild eyed conjecture? Like the russian billionaire just 'profiled' on 60 minutes last week who took over mining operations in russia including gold/silver mines? Siezure of energy, munitions and precious metals mining...they left the metals mining out...conveniently.
AHHH!!! Now I "know too much".
Better buy some more dead-bolts for my doors! Oh, and some Gold...
(Just kidding about the dead-bolts)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPBvFXf9Q2U
Got to do your best Keanu "We know to much!"
That was my thought as well! Damn, Tyler really knows how to spread the risk, though.
Wow, Lets bust them! Great article. Thank you for putting it all together.
The presence of Tungsten filled gold bars ties in perfectly to the revelations recently brought forward at the CFTC testimonies, particularly how much the whole market is gamed and how little physical their really is backing forward sales. No wonder we have tungsten filled bars. It all fits.
Stuart: The speed of sound in tungsten is almost twice what it is in gold. Anyone who wanted to check their gold could "ping" the bar with what is in the US at least, readily available instruments. The "tungsten filled bars" could be processed one after another in a relatively short period of time. Maybe the Russians would be careless enough to initially accept them but I can't believe they would retain possession without checking once the possibility has become general knowledge to the extent that this story has.
There is "dumb" and there is "too dumb to believe". This aspect of the story is, IMO, too dumb to believe.
It almost makes me want to open sealed 1 ozt bars just to hear them...
It is not cost effective to tungsten/fake small bars or coins
They're already out there...saw a chinese company link that produced all manner of tungsten-cored fakes. Big gold bricks, 1oz coins of various types. The link was over on TF or here, I can't recally.
wrap chocolate in gold coin look alike tinfoil,, looks just like chocolate wrapped in tin foil.. but fooled the kids
The tungsten will really come in handy for machining the metal for the war machines that all of this will lead to
This will be an interesting week.
well done tyler for keeping this gold/silver manipulation story going. if people don't see the implications of this and consoliditate their physical holdings immediatly then they will be kicking themselves for years.
i can't see the gold and silver markets lasting another year in their present format ( famous last words. i know).
the only way they can head this one off is with a 'false flag' . there are so many layers to it that it will take ages to reveal itself when it does hit the mainstream. exciting times indeed.
Tyler has done an awesome job of bringing us the best.
indeed he has
Read!
http://www.ratical.com/ratville/JFK/crimesOfMena.html
THE LONDON SUNDAY TELEGRAPH
29 JANUARY 1995
ARKANSAS DRUG EXPOSE MISSES THE
POST
BY AMBROSE EVANS-PRITCHARD IN
WASHINGTON
IT MIGHT almost be called The Greatest Story Never Told. The article was typeset and scheduled to run in today's edition of The Washington Post. It had the enthusiastic backing of the editors and staff of the Sunday Outlook section, where it was to appear after eleven weeks of soul-searching and debate. Lawyers had gone through the text line by line. Supporting documents had been examined with meticulous care. The artwork and illustrations had been completed. The contract with the authors had been signed. Leonard Downie, the executive editor of the newspaper, had given his final assent. But on Thursday morning the piece was cancelled. It had been delayed before - so often, in fact, that its non-appearance was becoming the talk of Washington - but this time the authors were convinced that the story was doomed and would never make it into the pages of what is arguably the world’s most powerful political newspaper. They have withdrawn it in disgust, accusing the Post of a cover-up of the biggest scandal in American history…………….
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_n46_v13/ai_20083166/
Read!
Armstrong was invited all over the world as a guest
speaker to comment about his views of the markets. To
give you some idea of the scope of his firm's worldwide
presence, I took the following off the
www.princetoneconomics.com web site:
"PEI seminars are held around the world in Tokyo,
Osaka, Hong Kong, London, Munich, Los Angeles,
Princeton, Vancouver and Edinburgh, with normally
annual events held in Beijing, Sydney and selected
cities in Southeast Asia.
"All seminars are recorded and transcripts are normally
available. Selected seminars are also available on
video tape in NTSC or PAL. Audio tapes are available,
as well, normally in English but also in Japanese for
those held in Japan."
Before I get into the matter, here is the latest to
bring you up-to-date about Martin Armstrong:
http://www.gata.org/node/696
Read!
http://www.andrew-racz.com/safra-madoff-richardson.htm
Read!
Lord Keynes gave the name "Gibson's paradox" to the correlation between interest rates and the general price level observed during the period of the classical gold standard. It was, he said, "one of the most completely established empirical facts in the whole field of quantitative economics." J.M. Keynes, A Treatise on Money (Macmillan, 1930), vol. 2, p.198. And it was a paradox because contemporary monetary theory, largely associated with Irving Fisher, suggested that interest rates should move with the rate of change in prices, i.e., the inflation rate or expected inflation rate, rather than the price level itself. Yet when Keynes wrote, data for the prior two centuries showed that the yield on British consols (government securities issued at a fixed rate of interest but with no redemption date) had moved in close correlation with wholesale prices but almost no correlation to the inflation rate.
http://www.goldensextant.com/Gibson'sParadox.html
Read!
http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/MENA/TATUM/EBush1a.gif
http://www.worldaffairsbrief.com/keytopics/VinceFoster.shtml
I guess someone could say this a bonafide "TinFoil Hat" story?! but I think that a lot of lines intersect.
I wanted anyone to be able to click and read... this is fantastic work Tyler! (and friends or Tyler in all of your many forms)
Thank You!
jeckyll and hyde
Typical paperbug refrain.
gimme a break bates. stop sucking up to the new guy to try and get him on your side. just take your well deserved 'junks' like a man.
+100
the paper hanger refrain,
standing in a hole,, and want to dig deeper to get out ,
May I add, Get Your Hand off It, MB. It makes typing easier. Post CFTC revelations, your arguments? stand as either ignorant or clouded by tunnel vision.
+100
Buying based on fear?
Hah!
Your ignorance is only surpassed by your arrogance.
You believe whatever you wish.
Given your inability to foresee the outcomes of the coming sovereign defaults, there is little point spending time on you
sometimes action, based on fear, is what insures your survival
No, you will be junked for mouthing off NONSENSE.
on Sat, 04/03/2010 - 13:51
#285244
No, you will be junked for mouthing off NONSENSE.
Gordon_Gekko,
What non-sense? You offer one sentence and nothing else?
No numbers?
No pie chart or graph for where Gold should be verse's where it is?
No income chart for persons who should be hedging?
No Volatility for Gold? Just "Buy!, BUY!!, BUY!!!"? http://www.thestreet.com/story/10712997/gold-prices-up-volatility-expected.html
Gordon, you sound alot like this guy... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnP6j3sUvJs&feature=related
http://www.thestreet.com/video/10708377/ignore-golds-volatility.html#73190646001
Ignore Gold's Volatility?
How about the higest and best uses of the Regular Guys Monies? How about where the real returns are... where the Government is pumping cash into? how about the safe play for the regular guy and not "Buy!, BUY!!, BUY!!!" based on fear of a melt down? or "Buy!, BUY!!, BUY!!!" based on the Value... of a Globaly Manipulated Market...
I cant wait for your one sentence response to how the Average Joe should be herded into a space that is as openly manipulated as Gold.
Sincerely, JW
Let me respond then. Do your own fucking research you lazy prick. If you don't like the fact that people buy gold as a currency debasement hedge, well good for you. If all you can do is mouth off and denigrate, then fuck off and go have a communal pull with your buddy in hand, Masterbates.
Let me respond then. Do your own fucking research you lazy prick. As you write but fail to observe, governments pump cash into various sectors propping them up through misallocation and debasement. Government sponsored banks misallocate funds and debase currency for the purpose of shorting precious metals to force the price down. I know what the outcome will be when the music stops. If you can't accept the fact that people buy gold as a currency debasement hedge, well too bad for you. If all you can do is mouth off and denigrate, then fuck off and go have a communal pull with your buddy in hand, Masterbates.
Agreed. This unsubstantiated hyperbole is embarrassing. I realize ZH has a following of rather zealous gold bugs but catering to their paranoia is not good. In a modern technology driven economy oil, gas, uranium ...etc are strategically important, gold is not.
The craziest part is that the price premium in gold is largely attributable to speculators who plan to bury it in their backyard. That's so much smarter than buying real estate at ever more inflated prices because they're not making any more land.
i think the world is on the cusp of finding out how "strategic" gold is.
the trouble with land is its very difficult to own outright and a bugger to carry around .
and as for " price premium" you try digging some up in any amount .
bolow, why do you think gold will again become strategically important ? That status was largely lost at the dawn of the industrial revolution, though, many still do not seem to realize it.
the "status" was not lost ,it was 'taken' because governments and central banks can't print gold.
and so for more years than anyone knows a monetary war has been raging between the naked honesty of gold and the government/banks tactics to debase it and replace it with a fiat currency.
hence the loathing of gold by tptb because it keeps on coming back to bite them in the arse.only this time it will be a bloody big bite. (and yes they will need a bigger boat)
That does not tell me why gold will become strategically important. Gold is a historically significant commodity that is now insignificant. Diamonds fall into the same category. In an industrial economy energy, manufactured goods and perishable commodities are much more important. Gold prices have only a marginal impact on the world economy in comparison to a strategically important commodity such as oil.
i do not control the desires of man. gold is valuable because people desire it.
historically the nation that has the most gold rules the world. when the dust settles that will not be the usa.
if gold is not strategically important why use such multifacated tactics to suppress the price .
diamonds are manipulated as well and are not as 'flexible' as a primary monetary equivilant.
gold is more than an industrial commodity. gold is money.
The decline of the USA is greatly exaggerated. If it comes it will not be for lack of gold. What matters today is technological leadership, the Dollar's reserve currency status, military power, energy and commodity reserves, arable land. If you have all of these gold is largely irrelevant.
and that's a big IF. Think about our path over the past few years. And think about the direction our 'leaders' are taking us. The future is not certain, but it's not looking very bright either.
Agreed. A Zero Hedge would be nice. Unfortunately, given the complexity of the modern world I can see no way to create such a thing without financial alchemy. Not so bad really but I do long for the days before the industrial revolution when a man's wealth could be determined using simple metrics like gold, cattle or land. Nowadays the vast majority of our wealth derives from intellectual property which produces semiconductors chips, drugs, software ...etc. All necessary and yet ephemeral.
Is that why they built the magnificent World Financial Center in Shangai since the WTC is no more? Is it also the reason they moved the means of production which is actually wealth production to China?
gold will become important.. not become continue to be .... because it stands behind the bills, the paper promises, as a standard of value world wide,
that is why Nixon took the USA off the gold standard .
Because it was recognized world wide as a payment in full.
this will now become the case again... the USA printed up so many IOUs,, that their value is questionable ,, gold in the future will be the final arbiteras payment for paper promise ,, ITs value will fluctuate in relationship to the total fiat production,
It will stand between the printing of bills and the true value of work, and the thieft of inflation as the bills lose value as more are printed ,, With a gold backing the gold will rise in value to keep the scales balanced ,
just take a call on gold . turn in the bills , the value in your hand then represents the value of labor.
Gold (sans the manupulation) will rise to balance the books of the financial statement of the nation state.
thats the long and short of it.
Its not rocket science,
No Dumpster, the age when gold was strategic is long gone. Major powers will not fight over gold.
gold is not strategic in terms of technology,, But will become a bench mark for the value of a nations currency,
some how you are jumping over a straw man,
gold is money. it represent a gauge and balance for international trade,
nations and central banks will be buyers of gold at 1600 and higher ,, not to represent this silly idea you have conjured up in your Keynesian addled brain lol
some where some how the curriencies must be backed by more than the promise of a politician, gold is the very best instrument for that purpose,
print to many paper promises that exceed the nations out put. then i make a run on your gold supply by exchanging your promise for gold.
you need a good history economics lesson,
why did Nixon close the gold window ,, because with it open the USA was not able to print into existence poverty, war ,death, unemployment the things going on now in the sordid world of paper promise . nations rushed to redeem the excess float of fiat,, for gold,
you have no idea what nations will fight over. if you can not pay your bills as a nation,, being the debtor . a nation will go to war to prompt payment ,
with the gold backing used as a international measure . payment is made in full with gold. and with gold as a barometer nations are restricted in their ability to exceed that limit as a run on gold will ensue
Other nations that thought precious metals were no longer important:
The Roman Empire (failed after debasing thier currency)
Song China (collapsed along with their currency)
Yuan China (collapsed from their third currency collapse--leading to their place as the "Sick Man of Asia")
France under Louis XIV
French Republic (after years of hyperinflation they finally returned to a gold standard)
The Confederate States of America (you know how well THAT turned out)
Weimar Republic (had a currency collapse after abandoning the gold standard
China AGAIN (leading to the fall of the Chinese nationalists and the rise of Communism in that nation)
And that is just a selection of the major ones. EVERY NATION that has strayed from the gold standard has failed, or returned to the gold standard as a solution. The current system has only survived because we don't have anyone setting a good example, so people think that what we have is all there can ever be, now and for all time. Somehow, there isn't enough gold, even though gold is infinitely divisible. They fail to understand that gold will become a very LARGE market as the price rises. There is a set amount of gold, so if you get in NOW, you will have a much larger share of total world weath than you could ever hope to gain through labor for pay.
Make no mistake, this worldwide fiat system WILL fail, and it will bring an era of unprecidented misery and decay. Those who have the gold will be the ones who make the rules. Those without, well, they'll be sucking dick for a cup of rice, or an old silver dime.
In the UK...
The gold standard was suspended at the outbreak of the war in 1914, with Bank of England and Treasury notes becoming legal tender. Prior to World War I, the United Kingdom had one of the world's strongest economies, holding 40% of the world's overseas investments. However, by the end of the war the country owed £850 million (£30.7 billion as of 2010).[14], mostly to the United States, with interest costing the country some 40% of all government spending. In an attempt to resume stability, a variation on the gold standard was reintroduced in 1925, under which the currency was fixed to gold at its pre-war peg, although people were only able to exchange their currency for gold bullion, rather than for coins. This was abandoned on 21 September 1931, during the Great Depression, and sterling suffered an initial devaluation of some 25%
you should be ignored till you study history and economics.
My opinion. Every bit as valuable and more to me. Value is in the eye of the beholder and what the market will bear.
Why be so militant about it ? Paper fundamentalist militant.
If it makes you feel better hide under a rock. Doesn't bother me.
>>Why be so militant about it ? Paper fundamentalist militant.
You are not reading my statements very carefully. I am not arguing in favor of holding any particular fiat currency. I am stating that in our modern world a Zero Hedge must be constructed from a basket of assets. Along the lines of the IMF SDR but taking into a account significant non-commodity assets. The weighting should be based on what you perceive the price trends to be.
just use gold as this asset it is a lot simpler why try to invent the rock, or the wheel. it is not arbitrary , it is what it is ;
you don pay .. give me your gold ,, not some basket of stuff made up in a sh-rum of pandering politicians
Dumpster, why invent a currency basket ? Because gold and any other potential fiat currency replacement will often trade at bubble prices relative to other assets. Relying on the persistence of a bubble can be hazardous to your wealth as we just saw in real estate.
Unfortunately, the complexity of a Zero Hedge is proportional to that of the economic output it represents.
take currencies in circulation divide by oz of gold . bingo price of gold /// print less currencies gold goes down in price . print more gold goes up to balance the internal books of nation states..
the bubble is in your imagination like the teck boom
oil of course never trades in bubbles or the like lol
gold went to 890 in 1980 as a result of printing , it went down as a concerted effort of Gibson's paradox,, the fed not wanting a substitute for paper ,, and their endless schemes of war, unemployment ,, and the desire to make the population believe in Pavloviandogs ring and the magic of Keynesian's goo
Diamonds do NOT fall into the same category - the perception of "value" attributed to them is largely due to modern marketing hype. Also, if you think gold "has become insignificant", you need to look into the matter a little more deeply and understand that your views are due to mainstream media brainwashing. Gold is far more important than most people can possibly imagine.
Diamonds are also used industrially. In fact, industrial consumption of diamonds is greater than jewerly demand. The public perception is the diamond as requisite wedding ring adornment per the marketing hype you mention.
This guy If simply doesn't seem to have any practical experience in any sort of industry.
I am Chumbawamba.
if gold has lost it's status, did someone forget to tell the central banks, or the people, who trade 50% of world production every day on the lbma. go back to sleep
I don't think gold will become strategically important.
I know it has become strategically important, and the trend and momentum intensify and continue despite your denials.
Why were we on a gold standard then until the 1970s?
on Sat, 04/03/2010 - 22:03
#285508
Why were we on a gold standard then until the 1970s?
trav7777,
Tungsten core, gold plated... Gold Standard?
I had to do it Trav... Sorry but the Joke was begging to be told!
Be well Trav7777, JW
Per Chumba,
"You can't eat land".
You can't eat lead. But if you put it in paint you can lick it.
on Sat, 04/03/2010 - 13:33
#285219
Agreed. This unsubstantiated hyperbole is embarrassing. I realize ZH has a following of rather zealous gold bugs but catering to their paranoia is not good. In a modern technology driven economy oil, gas, uranium ...etc are strategically important, gold is not.
The craziest part is that the price premium in gold is largely attributable to speculators who plan to bury it in their backyard. That's so much smarter than buying real estate at ever more inflated prices because they're not making any more land.
Land or dirt is (forgive the pun) dirt cheap... http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=farm+land+hedge+fund&aq=0&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=farm+land+hedge&gs_rfai=&fp=95b809f9b4e151b1
and any kind of inflation will cause a run on food prices... which will cause a run on?
Sugar has outperformed Bank Stocks, Gold and or other... in the past 12, 18 and 24 months...
Sugar verses Corn for fuel?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/apr/02/stop-big-corn/
http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/AF/265.pdf
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=7308
http://zfacts.com/p/63.html
I love this cheat sheet / graph site... http://www.tradingeconomics.com/Economics/Commodities.aspx?Symbol=SB1
Farmers Are Committed To Meet Increased Demand For Corn - 16 hours ago
"Further, since Brazil has failed to produce enough sugarcane to meet its own domestic ethanol needs, it makes no sense to replace our addiction on foreign ...http://mobile.wallacesfarmer.com/index.aspx?ascxid=cmsNewsStory&rmid=0&rascxid=&args=&rargs=9&dt=634058534563432000&lid=a8yebu2d9qxnz7lo&adms=634058534562340000Xd81fadc028&cmsSid=36947&cmsScid=9
Sugar... food and fuel and thanks to the weather getting more and more expensive...
Kind of off topic but better than discussing the idiots and thier Buy High to sell Higher after they scare the shit out of the common man.
Be well, JW
gold always is strategically important. Ask the fed! They will agree by their actions.
Problem with land is that it can be taxed to oblivion as landowners found out in Scandinavian countries where they have to sell pats of the land to pay the taxes thus eventually running out of real estate. (Pun intended)
Besides, you can't take it with you on the run just before they come to stick you in the box cars.
Indeed. My sister-in-law's parents had 20,000 acres in Rhodesia, they lost all of it
Don't get me wrong but I like ALL real things versus paper.
I'd stockpile oil if it were compact. If you think gold is "strategically insignificant," buy a metal with an industrial use, like platinum or rhodium. JFC, this isn't hard.
on Sat, 04/03/2010 - 22:07
#285511
Don't get me wrong but I like ALL real things versus paper.
I'd stockpile oil if it were compact. If you think gold is "strategically insignificant," buy a metal with an industrial use, like platinum or rhodium. JFC, this isn't hard.
trav7777,
Uranium, the demand going forward makes it look real good from where I am sitting.
IMHO.
Be well trav7777, JW
JW, all good points. Good to see there are some rational people here. I am rather jealous that your post got more flagged as Junk clicks than my own. I hope you're not manipulating that. ;-)
j. w. what embarrassing is the simple minded paper hanger rants against gold.
show zero understanding . of history, of economics , of the why we are in the mess now as all currencys race to the bottom .
shows a person that we are facing not only stupid ,, but also the bankers lust for paper power,
and speaking of unemployed lol
j. w. whats embarrassing is the simple minded paper hanger rants against gold.
show zero understanding . of history, of economics , of the why we are in the mess now as all currencies race to the bottom .
shows a person that we are facing not only stupid ,, but also the bankers lust for paper power,
and speaking of unemployed lol
Have you considered that in a highly specialized society, the efficiencies obtained by that specialization are wholly dependent on the existence of a trustworthy store of value and a stable medium of exchange?
The dollar (and in fact all fiat currencies) is rapidly and progressively failing at both tasks ... what is likely to replace it?
Bullshit. In a modern technology driven economy gold is a requisite. Do you think gold is used inside electronics because it adds bling? No. Gold is used because nothing else is currently available as a viable substitute.
As for the "premium" in gold, there is none. Most of the buying for the past several years has been by central banks. They deal in hundreds of tonnes, not ounces.
Your comments stem from ignorance. You should at least try to understand gold before you comment on it.
I am Chumbawamba.
The US Dollar. EVERYBODY owns it. Think about it.
A fiat currency is just a way of pricing things. You can easily convert those Dollars into a basket of other commodities, stocks, bonds, currencies ...etc. Long gold is the equivalent of going short USD and by implication all of these other asset classes. That would not be a problem if gold was either a strategically important commodity or at least well priced relative to its production costs and industrial demand.
Fallacious reasoning - reminiscent of the Classical school, which could never explain why diamonds - a "frippery" could be priced higher than water a "necessity". The reason: because value is NOT based on any intrinisic worth of an item, but instead, based on what people will trade for it.
Yes but then you are admitting that gold has little intrinsic value which leads us to the obvious development of fiat currencies. Of course in the end you must convert your currency (whatever that may be) back into something useful. Fortunately, our modern economy allows you to synthesize and hold a currency composed of necessities. Thereby mitigating the risk that something with little intrinsic value will lose its speculative premium.
"Yes but then you are admitting that gold has little intrinsic value which leads us to the obvious development of fiat currencies"
i am afraid that like many people (myself at one time) you have been a victim of the education establishment. the good news is though it is only a temporary condition.
gold, mona lisas, etc have high intrinsic value because people say the do. and thats all that matters.
fiat currencies have a low intrinsic value which is why they don't last long, are very unstable and lose value daily due to inflation. ( no inflation=no currency)
I do not accept that gold, art or a fiat currency have much if any intrinsic value. As you observe most of the value of all three is speculative: "people desire it". The intrinsic value of gold is limited to the cost of production in relation to what industrial users are willing to pay. That is a small percentage of the current trading price.
many currencies, have gone to 0 in value, what has gold done?
The cost of production requires a unit of measure. This requirement is apriori to the question of "what people are willing to pay to obtain gold"
The value of gold is therefore structural and it resides in a challenge to the dollar quantum.
Why should the dollar be the unit of measure of all marketable values, while at the same time be an asset under control of a single state. The world is playing a game where the rules of the game are under the control of a game participant. The necessity of all other players to trust in the benevolence and credibility of that one player trumps any argument of "best among a bad lot" argument. For this reason gold should be accumulated as it approaches zero dollars an ounce.
If memory serves the Meter is located in Paris beware the length of your commute.
If,
Does a car, a chair, a house, a bike, indoor plumbing, electricity, or any number of things you use everyday have intrinsic value? The problem with your misunderstanding of the value of gold is, is that you have never used it. Gold has a lot of value when you simply think about it. So i'll list the things that make gold valuable.
1) Non corrosive (doesn't decay). This is the most important reason for gold to be used as a currency in conjunction with 2, and 3.
2) It is finite.
3) It can't be created.
Other qualities it has are useful for industrial purposes. But IMHO they don't matter because gold is first and foremost a currency because of the first three qualities listed. And because of its natural qualities and means of trading (i.e. from person to person), it is almost impossible to track and tax which probably has more to do with the fact why central banks don't like it as well as the fact that they can't print money essentially for free and trade it for things of value.
Gold is in essence a representation of real labor. That is why you own it.
It surprises me that anyone would argue 1,100 square pieces of paper or 11 square pieces of paper with 100 marked on them is too much for physical gold. It is the most retarded argument ever.
>> 1) Non corrosive (doesn't decay).
Paper currency is also designed to be stable. That does not imply intrinsic value.
>> 2) It is finite.
Yeah, every last ounce ever dug up is still around.
>>3) It can't be created.
That's what the Diamond bugs used to think until GE synthesized one. Known techniques require a nuclear reactor or particle accelerator and as a result cost more than mining but that doesn't mean someone won't find a cost effective process.
>> It surprises me that anyone would argue 1,100 square pieces
You are confusing a paper currency with what it can buy. Gold at 1100 is roughly 13 barrels of oil. Those 13 barrels of oil have a much higher percentage of intrinsic value. In our modern industrial economy gold is irrelevant but oil and many other things priced in Dollars are strategically important.
Eh wrong.
1) You mean you can run dollar bills through the wash repeatedly? Or drop it in the ocean and reclaim it after a few years, or bury it and still have it retain its value after its been digested by various organisms. Face it, if you left paper money to your grand kids it more than likely wouldn't survive to live past them. Gold will last FOREVER (relative to human terms).
2) Do you not understand the fact that rare objects have more value than things easily obtained? Are you really that retarded? Secondly so what if all the gold dug up is still around, some of it is lost back to the earth, and besides that over the last few thousand years the population has exploded. So the amount of gold on the earth hasn't changed and the amount of people on it has increased... which means it has appreciated in value. Can you not even tell you are arguing in favor of the point I had made?
3) Right so unless you can point to a valid source that shows without a shadow of a doubt that you can "make" gold then it is slightly hard to believe you. Secondly as you pointed out, even if you were able to create gold in a particle reactor it would take more energy cause the reaction than it would be worth to produce it.
No I am not confusing a paper currency with what it can buy. It is your opinion that gold is irrelevant. Regardless of what 1100 rectangular pieces of paper can get me doesn't mean that those pieces of paper have any value. Just because someone is stupid enough to accept them doesn't mean they have any value.
And i accept that you dont accept that. lol
do what you wish . if you do not except it. so what,
i do not except that water runs down hill lol
Fiat paper has intrinsic value? WTF. I have a $100 bill, it's a fuckin piece of cloth with ink on it.
I can't eat it. I can't run my car on it. So, therefore, like gold, it's a doorstop.
and it looks just like a $1 dollar bill, minus, 2 0's, and it cost 2 cents to print, just like all the other dollars, of any denomination.
well if ,, keep your paper , dumpster keeps the gold he owns since 300, ,,
let see what happens ,
looks like we will need a lot of hats for folks like the paper people to eat,
Gold is also a way of pricing things. A MUCH more stable way of pricing things. It takes 20x as many dollars to buy a given good today as it took a hundred years ago, even with continuous gains in productivity. Goods are somewhat cheaper now than they were back then in terms of gold.
And being short the dollar is not being short other assets. If the dollar went to zero, those other assets still have value. Gold will buy approximately the same amount of goods whether the dollar is king of the world, or is carried about in wheelbarrows.
How would the Dollar go to zero without a dramatic spike in the price of oil and other Dollar denominated assets ?
And oil at $200 would be a global catastrophe. Gold can double or drop in half without having much impact. That alone should tell you gold is irrelevant.
loss of faith. gold cannot double, or halve, without major consequences, come on wake up.the price of gold is a benchmark, much more relevant, than currency exchange rates. gold is tied to all other things of value
$1.7 trillion of M-1 and $6 trillion worth of gold sitting around. Pull out a dollar bill in your wallet and savor it. It's rarer than gold. LOL!!!
For the record they manipulate everything, everywhere else...
March 26 (Bloomberg) -- JPMorgan Chase & Co., Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. and UBS AG were among more than a dozen Wall Street firms involved in a conspiracy to pay below-market interest rates to U.S. state and local governments on investments, according to documents filed in a U.S. Justice Department criminal antitrust case.
A government list of previously unidentified “co- conspirators” contains more than two dozen bankers at firms also including Bank of America Corp., Bear Stearns Cos., Societe Generale, two of General Electric Co.’s financial businesses and Salomon Smith Barney, the former unit of Citigroup Inc., according to documents filed in U.S. District Court in Manhattan on March 24.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=anW3hAG0Zw5k&pos=1
JW
I don't understand where you stand. You make a case for manipulation, but you call the gold bugs idiots.
Probable psy-ops tactic. An annoying, trollish poster who occasionally speaks what should not be widely believed, according to TPTB. I think I have seen this before. Mass Turd Baits, anyone?
Anyway, it took a reload, but I was able to DL and read the pdf. Wow, just wow. I just hope this gets the air-time it needs to either be proven, disproven, or corrected to more closely fit the truth. I think it is time for a Chumba quote here.
on Sat, 04/03/2010 - 13:22
#285211
Probable psy-ops tactic. An annoying, trollish poster who occasionally speaks what should not be widely believed, according to TPTB. I think I have seen this before. Mass Turd Baits, anyone?
Anyway, it took a reload, but I was able to DL and read the pdf. Wow, just wow. I just hope this gets the air-time it needs to either be proven, disproven, or corrected to more closely fit the truth. I think it is time for a Chumba quote here.
umop episdn,
I share information and try to help my fellow Americans, but I am a Troll becuase of my Bashing! the Fear Tatics used by the used car salesmen... that are pushing Gold? are you sure? did you think it through? or are you one of the used car salesman pushing the Average Joe into Gold thru Fear?
I am the Bullshit Police... not a Troll. Considering you have shared NOTHING! and only bashed me for sharing... well lets just say one of us is more a Troll than the other... and your actions more than my pointing out said actions make that case.
Maybe you are not a Gold Salesman and maybe we have a geniune misunderstanding, if that is the case I hope you better see my point of view... but is you are one of those plants, the Gold Salesman Plants... you can kiss my ass!
Sincerely, JW
Everybody - Larry "the turd" Summers is in da House!
Kick his ass out. He alone seriously drops the mean IQ here.
learn to help yourself first, before you try to help anyone else, with a dose of the snakeoil bullshit, you've been sold on. I find it very distressing, to see an adult, of possibly normal intelligence, not only reveal, such idiotic beliefs, but try to convince others. are you a jehova's witness?
militant fundamentalist paper bug. lol
Why do you need people to trust you so much? Are you just mad that GG doesn't need people to trust him? You're going to contradict yourself so many times it's going to be really painful watcing you kick your own ass.
Don't insurance companies capitalize on human fear? Check the commercials: "If you die your spouse and the kids will suffer." I don't think so. They will have one less mouth to feed. Aside of the joke, if this was a good bet for you, the insurance will not offer it.
on Sat, 04/03/2010 - 12:50
#285175
JW
I don't understand where you stand. You make a case for manipulation, but you call the gold bugs idiots.
Rick,
Buying Gold at $1,100 an oz. helps who? not you... not the normal person... and with the manipulation of Gold prices who more than likely will be hurt?
My fellow Americans... not the top 1% of the top 1% who are controling pricing.
I dont want to see normal, regular and / or everyday people get hurt in a squeeze by the powers that be.
Gold Bugs are like Jim Cramer... "Buy!, BUY!!, BUY!!!"
Who gets hurt when the price is forced lower? The risk verses reward for normal people who should be buying canned goods and bullets verses the Jim Cramer sales tactic of "Buy!, BUY!!, BUY!!!"...
Being aware of the manipulation and the fact that the manipulation has been so wide spread and sucessful for so long does not stop the used car salesman from loading up the regular guy with shit he does not need nor can afford.
The Fear! or Hedge! arguement does not hold water for people who do not have a 6 figure plus disposable income.
I own Gold... but I am not buying with Grocery monies becuase some used car salesman scared me into it.
I hope this better explains my view on Gold Rick... I think there is value there, in Gold... but I have bullets, food and bank stocks as well... my hedge is something I can manage and I dont use fear to manipulate the people.
My best to you and yours Rick, JW
And how the hell do you know that $1100 is "high" for the gold price? YOU DON'T.
on Sat, 04/03/2010 - 13:39
#285226
And how the hell do you know that $1100 is "high" for the gold price? YOU DON'T.
Gordon_Gekko,
I think its a lite number @ $1,100... but that does not make a case for the Average Joe to buy Gold instead of Bullets and Food now does it? Bullets, Food, Bank Stocks and then Gold... This is a conversation about protecting the common man... not just pumping up the Fear Factor + Value Factor...
The average Joe goes long Gold... @ $1,100(ish) (spot delivery)... without being able to protect the asset or feed his family? Just so the Gold Bug, Used Car salesmen can make a sale? Nope! doesnt pencil out as good inforamtion.
The fact that you completely ignore the common man arguement... and stick strictly to the Value arguement speaks to me. Either you are to lazy to type... or you are selling something.
Sincerely, JW
You are correct. Have the stuff you need before you buy gold.
With gold however....you can bugout in an instant leaving your stuff behind....and go anywhere you want or need to....then use it to get more stuff. 1000 ounces of gold will fit in a very tiny box.
If you find yourself crouched behind a foldup table with your rifle trying to defend your stuff and family against a gang of 30 hungry bikers...all armed....you might wish you had just left the area.....because you may or may not make it.
JW, you are absolutely correct.
Some on this site have denegrated the thread and dismissed the fine article by using words like, "far-fetched, hyperbole, etc." Nothing could be further from the truth.
George H. W. Bush and his cronies have been behind every mind-bogglingly unbelievable event since and including the Bay of Pigs. (Just as an example, the official name was Operation Zapata and two transport ships taking militant Cubans back to Cuba that day were called the Houston and the Barbara J. Don't forget that he came out of Skull and Bones straight into the CiA...)
Call if farfetched. Call it what you will. But the article is right. These are the greatest thieves in the history of the world and they have been doing this for a long, long time.
Do your own research. Look it up. Follow the trail. Discover it all for yourself.
actually, he did a stint in the military, korean war pilot, I believe, then dresser industries, in texas
As some have noted that if this fraud is rectified it will cause a collapse of the financial world. With that being said the powers that be will prevent this at all costs, and will more than likely prevent the fraud from being exposed continuing the status quo. If this manipulation continues then is gold a good investment? On one hand if the economy does recover then we will have inflation and gold would be a good hedge against inflation, but would it be if gold was manipulated down to 200 an oz.. (just an example). I think the majority of people here think the fiat money system is on the verge of collapse and gold would skyrocket, but if somehow they succeed in making it work 10-20 more yrs. then would gold be a good investment?
Here is what I do know. Gold should be at 2000 an oz. conservative estimate. Soros seems to be buying more and more (663M in GLD, in addition to 11,000 call options, In Nova gold 75M) (Paulson- 250M in GLD, 100M in NOVA GOLD) these guys usually don't make bad bets. I know this is small investment for them. One thing for sure is the dollar is going down in value and gold usually goes up when this happens. IMO it is inevitable that gold will go up, how high will depend on how effective the manipulation is.
My fellow Americans? Didn't tricky Dick the gold debugger use that address endlessly?
Probably because manipulation and speculation generally drive prices up. The gold bugs and those afraid of Shorts are among the few convinced that it works the other way. Don't bother asking them for quantifiable data. You must believe or you are a heretic.
they are manipulating the price of gold to drive the price up. the dollar price.
Wouldn't it be easier to just manipulate the price up in dollars like the oil speculators ?
you misunderstood me. they manipulate the price of gold down to make the dollar price higher.
Actually, it has been done to keep real interest rates down. Once they do that, they can easily determine the global value of a dollar and thus affect trade balances by simply offering a tweak here and there to interest rates.
There was a wonderful article here on ZeroHedge maybe at the beginning of last week that laid out in fair detail how Summers and Rubin, along with the wink-and-a-nod complicity of Alan Greenspan suppressed the price of gold so that they could have abnormally low interest rates along with low inflation. This maneuvre allowed the banksters to amass great wealth while the government paid out very little in terms of COLA.
The gist was that to control the price of gold you not only control the value of the dollar but you also control real interest rates and inflation by proxy.
It facinates me how these scum think.
I think this is the article. I had some trouble getting it to load...
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/former-goldman-commodities-research-analyst-confirms-lmba-otc-gold-market-paper-gold-ponzi
Long term interest rates are low thanks to the generosity of foreigners willing to keep their reserves in Dollar denominated assets. I don't really see why gold price manipulation is a necessary prerequisite. The Chinese and our other creditors do not want our gold. They want a stable trading partner that can pay by producing the necessities useful to modern economies.
Btw, I glanced thru your linked article and even searched for Greenspan but could not find the details you reference.
Do you think those foreigners would have been so generous if their historically favored savings vehicle (gold) was at $60K and rising every day? I somehow doubt it. Gold was manipulated downward in order to give the flase impression that the dollar was BETTER than gold. Only now are they realizing they have been bamboozled, causing a strong and sustained upward move in gold over the last decade. Now everyone is looking for the exits, hoping to get out with as much GOLD as possible.
silver, took a decline, when asia, was pushed off the silver standard. duped into fiat, to facilitate trade
and also the fed monetizing the debt by buying through a special fund in the Cayman island
Orly, it is more than that even. With Jeff Christian's (CPM Group) admission that paper gold claims are as high as 100:1, I submit that it is done to mask the hyperinflation that is already here. There is so much unprinted ledger money that they will do anything and everything to keep this "wealth" in the ether and prevent it from flowing into tangible goods. When challenged that the Futures Market is a Ponzi and there isn't enough physical to settle, it was claimed matter of factly "there are cash settlement contingencies in place".
true, i get it now. its called gibsons paradox.
there is more strings to this than a puppet army
Oil speculators...ROTFL.
I cannot believe you idiots.
Dude, C&C peaked in 2005. Conventional C&C production isn't even close to that anymore.
Gold production peaked in 2000. WTF is it with you idiots that you cannot understand simple fking supply and demand?
Should anyone bother to ask you how you know; give them this link: to "theoildrum.com"
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5969#more
P.S. In Europe, it is common knowledge with metallurgists re: the W filled bars of Au.
All the best,
Attila
Did you read the article? Did you comprehend it? Because Greenspan overtly stated in a rare case of plain English that the fed would flood the market with gold if the price dared to rise. What more do you need? Are you that obtuse?
He's like the hot chick that goes to the club wearing a mini-skirt, then complains that every swinging dick is hitting on her.
Doesn't make it all good. Only means that when the day of reckoning comes, the outcome will be that much more catastrophic - for everybody.