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German Federal Constitutional Court To Challenge Greek Bailout, Claims Action Is Unconstitutional
Just like last year when the first bailout of Greece was met with significant opposition by German constitutional professors, the constitutionality of the upcoming bailout #2 is about to be questioned. Only this time it does not come from powerless academic but from the very top: the Federal Constitutional Court. From Frankfurter Allgemeine (google translated): "The federal government has to explain how the measures are compatible with the Basic Law....The government will have to justify before the court how the measures conform to the stabilization of the European currency with the Basic Law, and possibly with European law. It was originally envisaged in the Second Senate to negotiate in private. But this stance has apparently changed in the course of the discussions." As expected, the fine legal print is once again about to throw a major monkey wrench in the ongoing usurpation of constitutional right by the banking syndicate.
From FAZ:
The Federal Constitutional Court, after information from the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung on Tuesday, 5 July, negotiate the claims against the euro and against the rescue Greece Help orally.
Thus, the government will have to justify before the court how the measures conform to the stabilization of the European currency with the Basic Law, and possibly with European law. It was originally envisaged in the Second Senate to negotiate in private. But this stance has apparently changed in the course of the discussions.
Chancellor Angela Merkel and Finance Minister Wolfgang Schäuble had signed on Wednesday in the government parties to show support for new Greece aids. Schäuble According to information provided by participants estimated the additional demand for the government in Athens in 2014 to around 90 billion euros. Merkel supported the claims to the claim to a participation of private creditors Schäuble on a new aid package. Schäuble explained to Members the outcome of the troika report by ECB, IMF and EU on the situation in Greece. This notes that Greece needs new funding from outside in order to solve its debt problems.
On Thursday, the groups will present a resolution to be adopted on Friday in the Bundestag. In order to intercept the expected displeasure with new grants, called Merkel on Members to voice their demands openly. These will culminate in the German negotiating position that Schäuble, on the 20th Euro Finance Ministers Meeting June and Merkel at the EU summit on 24 want to represent June.
Expressly warned the Chancellor before a rescheduling of Greece, as this could then endanger the situation in Spain and Italy. Greece must reform its tax system. The EU structural funds should be more targeted. "If Greece does not get any new taxes, it would be a bad signal for Portugal and Ireland," Merkel was quoted as saying. Despite criticism by some Members of the CDU and FDP, FDP faction leader Rainer Brüderle showed before the meeting convinced that there is a separate majority of the Coalition for the euro's launch. In addition to a new aid package for Greece includes the proposed rescue ESM from 2013.
The troika report published on Wednesday finds that Greece needs further support from outside in order to solve its problems. "Given the unlikelihood of a return to Greece for the financial markets in 2012, the adjustment program is now under-funded," it says in the results of joint tests of the troika that existed Reuters. "The next payment (from the ongoing Greece-aid package) can not take place before the problem of under-funding is resolved." The euro governments prepare therefore propose a new, possibly three-year aid program.
h/t Martin
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you really can't make these things up!
Everyone willing to help Greece by buying a bond, raise yer wallet...(didn't think so!)
the bankers will find the constitution unconstitutional if they don't get what they want
on Tue, 06/07/2011 - 12:22
#1347083
*My translation from the German.
Merkel is correct - any form of inter governmental bailout is explicitly prohibited by the Lisbon Treaty. The clause was put there at the insistence of the Germans to avoid a situation where they would end up being responsible for bailing out less responsible countries.
How strange then, that when this exact circumstance came to pass, they have chosen to ignore the protection they themselves put in place.
Thankfully, it appears that the Constitutional Court does not agree with this action. I hope that they will exercise the political independence and strict interpretation of the law that one would expect of a senior court, but bitter experience tells me that this will not be allowed and they will be pressurised into going along with the illegal bailouts.
The charter for joining the EU calls for "no bailouts" also.
All that was put in to appease the public, who had the unfortunate idea that they were in charge and they mattered.
The bankers have shown who really is in charge and who matters.
some nasty business during the big war showed otherwise
the clause was put there to create the union, not sustain it
now it is time for new clauses
Why new clauses?! They already have f*&king Santa Claus.
I don't think so. We have had several decisions over very important topics regarding the EU. Almost every time they let the govt have it their way. They make some minor corrections, as it was the case with the Lisbon Treaty, and sell it as if they are the guard of the constitution. The judiciary branch is in bed with the govt aswell.
That will be good for a 300point rise in the dow and dax!
Ah yes, another fly lands in the already fly filled ointment. Apparently EVERYTHING just loves it today, PM's, oil, stocks, currencies, seems it all simply cant rise fast enough to fill the vacuum higher.
Yep, they are determined to go after any shorts today, and any who trade on fundamental issues
Go get the banksters, Germany.
fat chance, the bankers and German Govt (politicians) have been ruining Germany for Centuries... nothing's changed
...one day (maybe) the German people are going to realise just who has pissed away all their industrious hard work on dumb liberal ideas about unifying Europe (a concept beyond all sanity on any socio-economic level)
Frontrunning bitches:
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/handelsblatt-reports-second-greek-bailo...
Too funny that any entity or individual would try to challenge anything on constitutional grounds in ANY country. As G W Bush so proudly exclaimed, at least in the USA, it's just a piece of paper.
The PONZI must survive and thus no challenge on ANY grounds will ever be allowed to seriously challenge the PONZI.
Period. Full stop
The EU sure is one big happy family, eh? (What a joke.)
Nice to see that the German Verfassungsgericht is at least making an effort to defend Germany's constitution, not like other places I know, hehe.
Like in all false families we love to share the wins. But we hate to share the losses when there is no real blood line, no true solidarity there. Pity, as European nations have been through so much pain in past by falling out amongst themselves. There are such lessons to be learnt from this zero sum "blood letting line" of past.
Humbling for most this meltdown but glorious for those few; if you be a true scavenging carrion who loves to live off raw human flesh. People fall into this 'honey trap' of Oligarchs when they have been blinded by these sharks into thinking... we'll never go back to being poor again...until history teaches us the contrary. We are only fragile pieces of wood, twigs and branches on a tree which could die anytime right down to its roots. That's evolution.
And all without even a mention to fix any underlying CAUSE of all the bankruptcy....not even a hint that Greeks might actually have to PRODUCE something and up their greuling 3 hour avg workday, or curtail the 6 month per year govt paid holiday season the Greeks enjoy. Nah, just keep bailing it all out thats the only important thing!
If it's against the law, they'll change the law.
Not the Germans- if you know and understand them.
Right...Germans don't break agreements. Just ask the Russians.
who should we ask? stalin?
<<kerrrr-slap!>>
LOL
What a clusterfuck.
Brought to you by the same folks (birthplace of the NWO) who claim that the solution is to make the nightmare bigger yet.
Another great Neo-Keynesian success story. Are you listening, Mr. Krugman?
Krugman doesnt listen because he is always busy writing bullshit.
hey knukles, you are getting a attitude today pal. you can't talk to a nobel prize winner like that.....
Are they bought and paid for, as our supreme court is?
Why would you think they're not ? This is probably just to take some pressure off Merkel.
Exactly.
Most people don't fully understand that plausible deniability is a form of currency that is extremely valuable in a world based upon lies. The Big Lie feeds off the willingness of the people to believe the Big Lie as long as people are given a plausible reason to do so.
"Daddy, tell me a (plausible) lie so that I may believe it is the truth."
I thought you might take us on a trip to Freudville for a minute there. You're pleasantly sober, I like you.
It's 5 o'clock somewhere so I won't be sober for long.
ok, go get you are a bottle of herrera and turn it up and i promise you, you will forget about pain and you won't even know your own name........
Sounds like you are already half in the bag. Wait for me.
sir, i cannot partake nor do i want to at this stage in my life. but i can say, that i remem ber the sins of my youth........ah the privilege of youth.......
on another note. it has been carefully studied i might add. that when the party is going strong and the adult beverages are flowing, it is a fun time, but when the lights go out and you try to make it home without getting a dui ( a classic horror show in houston i might add) , and you are puking your gutts out and you wake up the next day and feel like shit, what may i ask has been accomplished?
You have been purged of the evils of the preceeding evening...and are given some suffering to remind you of your sins that they may not be committed again...
i felt like a sinner, while riding the porcelain bus. jose quervo is a friend of mine......OMG ! ha ha ha
hopefully you got laid
i went home with a 10 at 2 and got up at 10 with a 2.............
"...dui ( a classic horror show in houston i might add)..."
OMG, Harris County Jail?
Let there be no doubt. Classic horror show sums it up.
i have been there a few times. i hate it..........
by the way orly, the nicest cops always work graveyard.........ha ha ha
Waited for to hours to rescue a girlfriend/co-worker nabbed writing hot checks to her landlord. I needed a shower coming out of that place.
Ech!
two hours. they must have liked you a lot........ha ha ha ha
In the German judicial system, as in I guess a lot of other judicial systems,
there are those laws, whose infringement are automatically prosecuted by the federal attorneys,
and there are others, who will only be prosecuted after filing of a complaint witrh the prosecutors.
The first case is called: "von Amts wegen (ex-officio)",
the second "auf Antrag (by filing)".
That even applies to certain felonies listed in the German penal code, the "Strafgesetzbuch (StGB)".
The same goes for constitutional matters, as can be seen in this case.
Such an active filing of a complaint is then called "Verfassungsbeschwerde" - constitutional complaint.
As I wrote yesterday already, some of the complainants, who filed their papers 1 year ago already, got a bit nervous and wondered, why the constitutional court seemingly didn't process their complaints and wouldn't name a date for when the main trial would be summoned.
The president of the BVerfG meanwhile was seen touring Germany, visiting conferences, holding speeches.
So they argued that the court couldn't possibly suffer from too heavy a workload.
Which makes it look as if certain orders from above were given to "slow down things a bit".
Good to see now that there's some action.
If anybody saw El Erian this am on cnbc, the most important thing he said today is that the ECB is now a PART OF THE PROBLEM instead of part of the solution. Because they own so much peripheral debt they are willing to sacrifice the PIIGS in order to stay solvent themselves.........
Furthermore, Trichet knows this junk heap is going down, he's just buying time until he retires this fallllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.........................
Nonsense - if they have the Gold on their books they can monetize at will given that most European debt is internal - they are merely extending the pain of the debt crisis so that their clients can take control of remaing state assets and break the remaining small soverginity of nations.
The Orwellian named stability and growth pact has been designed from the outset to fail.
Just look at the ratio of goverment to private debt in the EMU since inception - destruction is built into the system even if not only a small amount of new debt is added every year.
Its the ratio of public / private debt that really matters not the debt to GDP which is a false metric.
The ECB copied Jackson's mistake of destroying goverment debt creating a speculative frenzy amongest the state banks and subsequent depression due to malinvestment.
These are bad bastards.
nailed it.
why is it that guys from pimco are the go to guys for superior knowledge on CNBC?
This has been hanging over Merkel for a long time now. At the time of original challenge to bailout number 1 the court ruled that the question was admissable but declined to say when they would actually rule on it. I suspect they were reluctant to rule against the government and have been sitting on their hands deliberately hoping the issue would solve itself so that they would not have to. After all it was some law professors who brought the case and they should know. If the case were weak I am sure the court would have slapped it down quickly back then to avoid controversy.
Translation for the sheeple:
It's just a useless hearing, STAGED in order to silence allegations (towards the judges) for delaying the action for over a year now.
They will have this hearing and then - nothing. The court will never decide, not in a hundred years, because
A) they declare the bailouts illegal. Euro collapse, economic collapse -> a handful of judges will be held responsible for the misery of a whole continent
B) they do not declare the bailouts illegal. German court system and the idea of the high court standing above politics takes a hard hit.
So the best thing for them to do is - let them have this useless hearing and then delay the action for the next hundred years.
But if they don't rule then the judges themselves can be charged for their inaction.
They're not immune.
The judges have to rule in a timely fashion.
There are limits to delays.
After that, they're committing a crime themselves.
If such a limit didn't exist then there would never be a ruling on anything.
The only excuse that is allowed is "Überlastung des Gerichts" - "excessive workload at the court".
Which isn't the case, especially when dealing with a highly prioritized matter.
All of law is a box it's key is: necessary.
Need, in the interest of the people. The people have always been those with the most power/influence.
Individuals come and go; its the institution that must survive, for that is the core of all modern power.
Germany is powerful only because they are the anchor of the euro. But like the US even anchors have been cast aside; such is the tale of gold.
at some point you have to start hanging judges and putting on robes.
do we have to be lawyers too?
Useful insight, danke
It's stupid to bail out their banks on their Greek Debt by bailing out Greece. Better they do it directly and get full value for the bailout.
This way they wont break the law too.
The Germans are not going to give up their pensions for the Greeks.
Everyone thinks the case is closed, Greece is bailed out. I dont think so.
I agree -- I've been saying all along that this Court's ruling could be an unexpected black swan. (Anyway, they've got the black robes to fit the part.)
on come on nathan. we are not talking about nationalities here. they are the european economic community. they are all one big happy family. they are all in this together. when you cut one, everybody bleeds.........
Greece: We need a bailout.
Germany: We're not going to bail you out.
EU: You will help bail them out and will like it.
Greece: Screw you and your bailout.
Germany: Fine. Like we said, we're not going to.
EU: Look, this has to be done, alright?
Germany: Maybe if they pledge assets...some of those Greek Isles?
Greece: No way, assholes! Are you serious? You probably want our ruins, too?
Germany: Ok.
Greece: That was sarcasm, bitch! Fuck off! We're outta here. DEFAULT.
EU: Wait a minute. Germany, shut up. No one is taking your land, Greece.
Germany: Don't be so quick to shoot down the only politically acceptable solution!
EU: Well, maybe we can do something on that order....hmmmm...
Greece: What???!!!! Are you serious?? Once again, screw you guys!!!!
Germany: Fine, this is going nowhere. We're done. Get out of the EU, Greece.
EU: Wait, what???
Greece: La! La! La! La! Na! Na! Na! We can't hear you!!!!
EU: Forget everything that's been said. Let's pretend like we're still negotiating.
Germany: Fine. How long can we do this for, though?
EU: Who cares as long as they think we're in serious talks?
Germany: Okay, gotcha'.
Greece: La! La! La! La! Na! Na! Na! We still can't hear you!!!! {fingers in ears}
EU: Great. Just great. Now the German courts are opening their pie holes the 'law.'
Pretty much it. All this is supposed to just 'calm the markets' and make algo-bots believe the insolvent and unbailable has been bailed. Just piling crap higher.
Greek1: Hey, I got an idea.
Greek2: La, la, ,na, na, nah
Greek1: Take your fingers out of your ears, dolt. It's me.
Greek2: Oh. What?
Greek1: I said, I got an idea!
Greek2: Whazzzat?
Greek1: Listen.... They wanna loan us more money so they can live off our sweat and blood. They wanna take the Acropolis and make it a pay for fun ride slippery slide water park, and all that shit, right?
Greek2: Right. Fuckers, not gonna do it.
Greek1: I know, I know, but I got a better idea. Lot better! We make nice soft cooing sounds, like Alexandria, the S&M queen over by the Placa, and get them to give us a whole fucking piss-load of new moneys, not just roll over the old shit, I mean Big Fucking New Money.
Greek2: So, what, why? What's that do?
Greek1: Then we default. Not before.
Greek2: OH! I get it! Lets go for it.
Greeks1&2: La, la, la, la, nah, na...
Germany and EU: (Looking at one another) Wonder what they're up to? Maybe if we give them a lot more money they'll shut the fuck up....
greek 3 chimes in.......hey let's talk to brother leo. he knows everything......
And yet they'll give them the cash.
Aha, the ole "no new tax, no bailout" trick huh?
Didn't Barama just pledge more taxpayer billions for Greece?
It would be refreshing, for those in high office to hold to powers greater then them selves. Some ideas should and need to be held as sacrosanct.
Law needs to be that power; else law is privilege and client based.
Theres a saying " a man needs to know his limitations" I think this is from "Cool hand luke".
None the less if man places no limit on himself nature shall. Nature never forgives and never forgets errors of judgment.
In case anyone wants a news diversion, bomb threat at Bilderberg meeting.
To which I say:
The sheeple have awoken !
And they're baring their little sheeple teeth.
Since they're only herbivores.
Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh !
if a bomb blew all of them up, there would not be so much as a hickup uttered. some more useful idiot talking head puppets would be ushered into place and the god's work would continue on schedule......
I hear the Pope needs help in his battle to regain Jerusalem, and that the Monarchies are asking the Lords, Dukes, and Viscounts to raise taxes on the peasentry and tell them that sacrifices must be made if we are to save Christendom; and to send their sons with a sword, their daughters in lace, and tribute in a plain burlap sack.
I have no burlap will old rotted cotten and leather patches do.
Will the devine pope accept eggs and the hen that lad them. I would offer a barren wife but her tongue is unfit for even the devils ears.
patches are cool. just be sure and don't have "Texas" on that bottom rocker there pal.......
I will send the Vatican a crack whore infected with a mutant strain of highly communicable ebola, along with a well armed and bent-upon-revenge mercenary who was molested as an altar boy.
well the pope is jewish and here is a newsflash for you. who owns jerusalem? so don't worry about it. whatever happens, we got you covered.....
What are we waiting for, assembled in the forum?
The barbarians are due here today.
Why isn’t anything happening in the senate?
Why do the senators sit there without legislating?
Because the barbarians are coming today.
What laws can the senators make now?
Once the barbarians are here, they’ll do the legislating.
Why did our emperor get up so early,
and why is he sitting at the city’s main gate
on his throne, in state, wearing the crown?
Because the barbarians are coming today
and the emperor is waiting to receive their leader.
He has even prepared a scroll to give him,
replete with titles, with imposing names.
Why have our two consuls and praetors come out today
wearing their embroidered, their scarlet togas?
Why have they put on bracelets with so many amethysts,
and rings sparkling with magnificent emeralds?
Why are they carrying elegant canes
beautifully worked in silver and gold?
Because the barbarians are coming today
and things like that dazzle the barbarians.
Why don’t our distinguished orators come forward as usual
to make their speeches, say what they have to say?
Because the barbarians are coming today
and they’re bored by rhetoric and public speaking.
Why this sudden restlessness, this confusion?
(How serious people’s faces have become.)
Why are the streets and squares emptying so rapidly,
everyone going home so lost in thought?
Because night has fallen and the barbarians have not come.
And some who have just returned from the border say
there are no barbarians any longer.
And now, what’s going to happen to us without barbarians?
They were, those people, a kind of solution.
(reputedly from Cotezee, Waiting for the Barbarians)
"Waiting for the barbarians"
A Greek poem (aptly so) by C. P. Cavafy.
"Waiting for the barbarians"
A Greek poem (aptly so) by C. P. Cavafy.
I remember someone back in mid-2010 predicting that Karlsruhe would choose to close its eyes and count to 10 in the hope that all the illegal bailouts would be over and in the past by the time it would have to do something about them. Looks like that's what has happened, and that time is now up.
but, but, but ....german courts have stated repeatedly, during denial of holocaust trials, that facts do not matter......
Vee verr jest follawink ohrderz...
Nute Gunray : But my lord... is it... legal?
Darth Sidious : I will make it legal.
2 ass backwards thinking: 1. the very same villains that want to enslave europe under an unsustainable system of debt thinks that Greece needs an aid package. 2. More debt will solve debt problems.
It's like if I were a drug dealer and my addict came to me for medical advice, I would then write up a health report detailing the problems that the addict will encounter should he/she stop using drugs (the shakes and other symptoms related to withdrawal) and then demand he continue to use my drugs. If he tried to protest I would then knock him out and inject him with more drugs while he was passed out. And that's what the current situation in europe is like.
...Why Ireland must veto any second bailout for Greece...
http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2011/06/08/fool-me-once-shame-on-you-fool-me-twice-shame-on-me-why-ireland-must-veto-any-second-bailout-for-greece/
You mean that the Germans have a constitution that they actually adhere to? What a novel idea!
after the war, we taught them democracy and we insisted that they pattern their government after ours and to make sure everything remained kosher, we maintained a army of occupation there, til this day. now fast foward to iraq and afghanistan. do you see any parallels?
Franken_Stein, I understand your point, but to whom exactly shall one file his action to? Allegation: the high court delaying action. Court: the high court. I think you get it...
Dear God please,help the good people of the German Constitutional Court help us,the Greeks,put an end to the bailouts,so that we can default,leave Eurozone's house of madness and get on with our lives.
now let us be clear here. if the greeks accept the "help" then the men with the blue hats and the 12 stars shall come and "help" the greeks by showing them the true way of the chosen ones........another words. do greeks mind if a foreign army is stationed inside of greece for the forseeable future? to protect you from yourselves, doncha know.
As Arthur Miller, ConLaw Prof at Harvard used to say about these things,"Why let a thing like the Constitution get in the way of your plans?"
How irksome!
ALL these cretins in government ALWAYS have exactly the same answer --- NEVER, EVER decrease the size and spending of government.
Which is funny, because the entire world-wide economic problem happened because the size and expendature of governments have gotten FAR too big for the productive part of the economies.
Which means, 100.000000000000% of every official statement is worthless, counterproductive TRASH that utterly ignores the one absolute necessity, namely...
MASSIVE REDUCTION IN THE SIZE OF GOVERNMENT.
No other approach has any chance whatsoever.
None.