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GETCO Full Frontal
The Wall Street Journal is finally heatmapping on exposing the key players of the day. Scott, a tip from us - next up: RenTec's Medallion... You will find much more juiciness to sink your teeth into. But for today Getco serves just fine.
From the WSJ:
Since its founding a decade ago, the firm has risen to become one of
the five biggest traders measured by volume in stocks and other
instruments that trade electronically on exchanges, such as Treasury
bonds and currency futures, according to firm executives, who spoke
with the Journal this week, and other people in the industry.
"They are probably the biggest market maker in the U.S. stock
market," said Justin Schack, a vice president at Rosenblatt Securities
Inc. who closely tracks high-frequency trading. A market maker is a
firm that always stands ready to buy or sell a stock.
High-frequency trading, in which traders use powerful computers and
algorithms to trade at lightning-fast speeds, has grabbed attention
after it produced stellar results during the financial crisis and amid
estimates that it now accounts for more than half of U.S. daily stock
trading.Critics say high-frequency traders can trade ahead of less
fleet-footed investors and squeeze pennies out of their pockets.
Defenders say high-frequency shops help markets operate more
efficiently by constantly stepping in to trade securities when
investors wish to buy and sell. That, in turn, makes trading cheaper
for individual investors.
Lest you thought Getco et al would go down without a fight:
"Electronic markets have been the best-performing parts of the
financial markets" in the past few years, said Dan Tierney, a
co-founder of the company with Stephen Schuler, in a rare interview. By
contrast, many securities and derivatives traded over the counter, such
as credit default swaps, malfunctioned amid the credit crisis, with
devastating consequences.
Curious - it seems the heads of these firms are finally crawling out from behind the shadows and vigorously defending the noble services they provide as undesignated market makers who have the option of disappearing on a moments notice and collapsing the liquidity of the entire market. As for devastating consequences, wait to see what happens if all the stock market liquidity were to simply go away one day. Yet again, one wonders why Messrs. Schuler and Tierny are suddenly feeling threatened.
And yes, here comes the liquidity defense:
One day last October, Getco juggled about two billion shares,
representing more than 10% of the volume in U.S. equities, according to
a person familiar with the firm.
Without high-frequency traders, Mr. Tierney says, the market's
losses could have been much steeper. The Dow Jones Industrial Average
plunged 14.1% that month.
Now that Getco is favoring the PR approach, it can disclose how much of the churn in AIG, BAC, FNM and FRE it has personally been responsible for.
And, yes, "providing" liquidity is profitable:
All this has been profitable for Getco, which earned about $400 million
in 2008, trading mostly with its own money, people familiar with its
finances say. Getco, which stands for Global Electronic Trading Co.,
declines to comment on its profit.
And according to a tip, GETCO made $800 million last year! On 250 employees: that's well over $3 million a pop, a number most investment banks would kill for. However, don't confuse Getco with an actual market beneficial, long-term investors:
Unlike traditional Wall Street firms, the company holds relatively few
securities by the time markets close for the day. Nor does it use much
leverage, or borrowed money, to amplify the effects of its trades.
Since it constantly buys and sells, it can move in and out of hundreds
of millions of dollars' worth of securities every day with a relatively
small amount of capital. It favors shares that are the most heavily
traded.
Truly Getco is a real humanist for allowing the fab five fins to amount to 30% of the NYSE volume. The fringe benefits to the markets are incalculable.
Getco depends on the success of its proprietary complex algorithms to
help it make money on the transactions more often than not. It also can
pick up tiny rebates that some exchanges offer to firms willing to take
the other side of trading orders. The company focuses on hiring top
computer programmers and technicians, as well as traders.
Hey Sergey, if the Teza gig falls through, you know where to send your resume (but you already knew that).
And going back to our original point, Scott - have a call into East Setauket. You will be amazed at what you may find.
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> As for devastating consequences, wait to see what happens if all the stock market liquidity were to simply go away one day.
Surely, there will come a day when markets will plunge (again), and surely on that day, spreads will be wide (these 2 go hand and hand, but you are conflating the causality).
There will be those who on that day seek the heads of trading firms like GETCO and place the blame at their feet. These people will be wrong.
It seems Zero Hedge is setting up to make that likely to occur but causally incorrect call in advance of it happening!
Crashes have always happened and will always continue to happen - so long as there are capital markets vaguely resembling what we have had over the past few hundred years...
As far as threats to automated market makers shutting down their computers, the 2 largest threats are technological failure (i.e. a major outage or attack on some key data centers), or politically induced lunacy - of the type this blog seems to be fomenting.
Without prudential regulation Marx(not Groucho) was prescient.
Glass Steagal is an example of politically induced lunacy.
Look at pre-1933 for the vague resemblance of this capital market and, in my opinion, future market action.
Unit investment trusts versus securitizations formed by slices of other securitizations.
Speculators moving in herds versus HFT dominating trading.
The market and all its' proponents of the status quo were right until they miscalculated.
Move along, nothing to see.
There is no doubt that ZH has "an agenda" just like every other traditional or non-traditional media outlet has. And I don't pretend to know exactly what the ZH agenda is.
However, from my point of view, ZH attempts to counter balance the clearly one sided view the main stream media foments upon the mostly uneducated and prone to manipulation and propaganda public.
If speaking truth to power, even if that truth is itself biased, brings about "politically induced lunacy" then I submit that the "lunacy" was simply looking for a fall guy.
The idea that ZH foments "politically induced lunacy" is along the lines of "you made me angry, that's why I beat the crap out of you" and I won't swallow that bullshit for a second.
I don't trust the corporate or political leadership for one second and any sunshine ZH brings to those murky corners is alright by me.
Let the cockroaches scurry when ZH opens the refrigerator door.
Awesome! I couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you!
A pretty disgusting job some people have justifying leeches on the US economy.
again i don't get your defense strategy; if; as you say; GETCO,GS etc are to be proven beneficiary to the general market via their liquidity provision; then why do they participate in flash-orders ( again i know flashing is optimal; but lets get real here; if you had the option to see the price wouldn't you exercise that option ); if the liquidity is truly the main goal of market makers and liquidity providers; why do market makes have and option ( granted by the SEC ) to participate in naked short selling ( that, can not, under an circumstance be beneficiary; because we have seen numerous stocks not being delivered; or being delivered after a period of one year or more ( search ZH for confirmation on the validity of my point )). Also, it is one thing when liquidity goes off the market in a natural way ( when the trend is downwards and the pressure is on selling ) and it is completely another thing when it gets pulled off the market artificially; and if 70% of the market is structured via algo-trading ( artificial supply and demand ) and the characteristics of liquidity are the same; than market can be easily manipulated both upwards and downwards; furthermore; it can be diluted via " Madoff exemption " and thus increase the artificial supply; and normally, demand. I mean there are so many things that could ( and ARE going ) go wrong it is simply mind boggling; and i don't understand your defense strategy of liquidity providers or HFT participants. Also there is the question of dark pools; and we can also go trough that matter after i get a response from you on the questions i have asked. Thank you.
EDIT:
Unlike traditional Wall Street firms, the company holds relatively few securities by the time markets close for the day. Nor does it use much leverage, or borrowed money, to amplify the effects of its trades.
Since it constantly buys and sells, it can move in and out of hundreds of millions of dollars' worth of securities every day with a relatively small amount of capital. It favors shares that are the most heavily traded.
again; can you answer me; how can this be of any good; one of the largest " market makers " and liquidity " providers " holds only a tiny position in the market; the main goal, obviously is not the market; but churning and creating " phantom " liquidity; there should be a provision which would demand that the firms which provide liquidity for the market have at least 35% of their basic capital invested in the long term. All else is bullshit; you can drown the market in " phantom " stock just to boost up volume and take your fee. And the beauty of that is; that SEC refuses to disclose short positions, or " naked shorting " . If you don't believe me; search SECs home page and read that.
Your missing the point about flashing optionality: if I place an order I can choose to have it flashed to others or not. Likewise, traders can choose to watch the flashes or not. If I feel that flashing will allow others to trade ahead of me then I will leave it off.
Naked shorting: Official market makers are allowed to do this because when a stock spikes up and they are providing liquidity to buyers they might run through their entire inventory of stock but need to keep providing liquidity regardless even if the stock is difficult to borrow. This is one of the monopoly benefits designated market makers enjoy. Unofficial HFT shops that do market making are not allowed to naked short.
I don't know why you think liquidity goes away when markets go down. It just isn't true. When markets are volatile (up or down) spreads may widen a bit which is a reduction in liquidity but it is not based on markets going down. THe WSJ article points out that Getco was in the market, making money, during the financial crisis.
> how can this be of any good; one of the largest " market makers " and liquidity " providers " holds
> only a tiny position in the market
For decades, official market makers and specialists have always held a relatively small inventory of stock. They just need enough to go against the market during short-term swings.
No one claims that the goal of HF Trading is to add liquidity. That is never anyone's goal.
The goal is simply to make money - which is everyone's goal in the markets.
The market makers (whether they be human or machine), are out to make a buck. Nothing more.
It is however a by-product of this trading that causes the markets to be more liquid than they otherwise would be.
There may be a buyer and seller of a particular equity at a particular price (ignoring the machines for the moment) - and they could transact with each other. But... unless the buyer and seller are there at the same time, then nothing happens.
A market maker (whether computer or human) closes this temporal gap, for a fee. They are in it to make the spread - but without them, the buyer and seller would have a much smaller chance of transacting.
As far as your comments on naked shorting and fails to deliver - it should be clear that strategies that finish the day neutral and having closed out all of their positions can not be responsible for fails to deliver... If you short X times per day (naked or otherwise) and then need to cover those shorts by 4PM - you aren't the responsible party for FTD.
thank you; i rest my case; this was a Socratic thing i just did; and you completely owned yourself; never thought id pull it of; but it seems i did; thank you for stating that THE HFT AND LIQUIDITY PROVIDERS MAKE NO GOOD FUCKING THING TO THE MARKET EXCEPT ROBBING IT BLIND.
And whatever lofty goals the HFT trader may or may not have, the same is true of the designate market maker. In the not-so-old days the designated market maker had a monopoly on 12-25 cent spreads and a unique ability to front-run and use adverse selection against incoming orders. Today he has competition from HFT that reduces those spreads to a penny and takes away the specialist's ability to abuse the system.
It's all a matter of monopoly vs. competition. With competition the citizen investor is saving a lot of money.
we need you to make money peterpeter. you will be subject to the daytrader tax however. If you have not heard, you haven't been listening. travel forward a bit with me in time and see what I do.
A day-trader tax is a stupid idea, because the added transaction cost will be added into wider spreads to compensate for the tax (no different than a change to exchange fees - the higher they are, the wider the spreads).
The higher spreads will mean lower volumes...
The lower volumes mean there is a lower base to tax with this new tax, and there is a lower base to tax with the existing corporate taxes...
The rest of the investing world would have to pay not only higher spreads, but higher fees to the SEC, FINRA, DTCC etc... since those agencies budgets would not be cut in line with the drop in volume from the HFT tax.
So... it isn't going to happen, and if it does - it will quickly be repealed as the reality of the situation becomes a stronger force than the quick electoral grab such a stunt would be useful for.
I think that would result in the most efficient, fair, and transparent market possible! Prior to the interval prints, the specialist (order computer) can constantly give updated indications.
good articles; good articles 4 slow news day ..http://www..
hat tip: finance news & finance opinions
The argument for every market maker is that they provide liquidity.
When stocks went to pennies it caused most market making firms to get out of the business.
It should be obvious the massive amounts of money made by firms like Goldman and Getco -- show the take some kind of advantage of the order flow to print money. As if "providing liquidity" was somehow altruistic?! My ass!!
You don't need to take any non-public order flow information to make money as a market maker... as you are buying and selling with a spread of at least 1 cent, and your transactions costs are either smaller than that, or are negative (i.e. adding to your profit).
If you would like to abolish computer market makers and pay a higher spread to humans who are by their nature less competitive (and therefore offer bid and ask prices with higher spreads), then you are truly charitable.
Spreads are lower than they've pretty much ever been (time for Tyler to update the Q1 ITG numbers), in the wake of a historic sell-off. The fact that trading has been orderly all throughout the last 18 months is a testament to how well the computers have replaced humans as the market makers.
I shudder to think of what would have happened without automated trading market makers last year post Lehman... because unlike humans traders, the computers didn't freak out.
Computer algorithms freak out as much or more than humans!
So were you "shuddering" when automated trading helped pump the market up to its 07 highs?
I was indeed. I had completely clear out of my stock holdings and was only short GOOG. Sure, I was also shuddering with that position, but ultimately made good money with a cover at 255.
I was actually asking peterpeter because I thought he said he "shuddered to think what would have happened last year if ...."
But that's ok, glad you made $$ on GOOG
If, as per the WSJ example, Getco is bidding 24.10 and offering 24.11, how is this having any effect on the price of Microsoft or the market. All it is doing is reducing spreads and volatility.
HFT does not push the market up or down.
I dispute the premise.
I don't think the computers were responsible for the stock market highs of 2007.
Software that closes out positions at the end of each day are neutral. The authors of that software don't care whether the market goes up or down - just that there is a lot of action.
It was human greed and a system that is setup where the majority of "investors" can only profit from prices going up that is (and always has been) the cause of bubbles.
I'm waiting for someone to blame the condo price mania in Miami on HFT....
I have only one question - how is it worse than floor traders? They will flee the floor at the first hint of problem.
Somehow I feel that HFT is lumping everything good and bad under one headline. And ZH analysis is wanting. If readers could dissect these issues so easily, there would be no need of CNBC or ZH!
HFT == Internet is a series of tubes.
I used to be a market maker at the Chicago Stock Exchange in NYSE listed securities.
I firmly believe the old specialist system is the best system out there.
I would propose that we eliminate all the hyper-fast trading in and out.
Just pair up all buy and sell orders at a set time interval - every 1 minute, every 3 minutes? Just like the open at the NYSE.
All the hyperfast trading doesn't do any good in my opinion.
I think that would result in the most efficient, fair, and transparent market possible! Prior to the interval prints, the specialist (order computer) can constantly give updated indications.
Just pair up all buy and sell orders at a set time interval - every 1 minute, every 3 minutes? Just like the open at the NYSE.
But then the smart money goes after gaming the queue. You'll have a queue building between every trade interval. Right? It's a very pernicious problem similart to tightening your grasp on a handfull of sand.
As much as the newspeak on ZH is 'HFT is bad,' there is no discussion what automated trading would be good. On top of that, there's nothing illegal about making money ahead of the regulators. Which is what HFT and whatever replaces it is all about.
There would be a queue of orders ... and the bid/offer queue can be shown as it queues (the indication) -- it would be a transparent double auction market -- simply eliminating all the hyper-fast orderflow gaming.
It seems you would eliminate unsophisticated HFT, but something else would take its place.
So, instead of gaming the queue pre-trade the gaming switches to your trade-window periods.
I'm not opposed to the idea of banning HFT, but this topic like most ZH content is initially interesting, but working out a viable solution is *much* less interesting for readers. In fact.
At *some* point, if things are to change, many people have to get to work on the changes. ZH isn't set up for that, and therefore, it becomes a self-sustaining loop. Financial institutions scam investors, ZH reports the scam. Institution changes scam if they can't convince regulators otherwise. Same problem, different day.
Just like market makers is a pretty fair assessment. Stocks are a zero sum game and those who see and handle the order flow have always taken their cut, their vigorish. As Mayer Lansky said after a tour of the NYSE floor, I got into the wrong racket.
I think there is a valuable lesson to be taken for Madoff who helped lead the revolution in open auction stock markets at NASDAQ. That is don't trade at all.
With a big enough panic centralized auction markets will always freeze, always lose liquidity.
I am all for shining bright lights on this stuff to discourage people from speculating.
Do not mistake "empty volume" for liquidity. Churning the same 1000 shares over and over is not liquidity, it is empty volume.
Dont mistake *any* volume for liquidity.
Look at the average bid/ask spread, and think about whether they would be wider or more narrow if the computers were shut-off....
Peter you just said what I was about to say!
You are making a VERY BIG assumption - that the bid, ask, and spread are REAL. They have not been real at any time this year. Who knows whether they have been since 2005!?!?
Right.... and all of those bids and asks I hit daily are bogus entries in a trade book that my broker is making for me... and the reported trades I make which hit the tape are also bogus.
Get a better broker and remove your tinfoil hat.
Unless you work for one of the 'privileged' brokers like GS, my broker is just as good as yours. I will stick with my tinfoil hat at least as long as your keep your asshat.
+10000000
I hope Zero Hedge plans to report on more groundbreaking things than just HFT. It'd be nice to shine more light on the entire industry, and it would be a shame for the energy on ZH to taper off into a TSC-type site.
So far, so good.
"Without high-frequency traders, Mr. Tierney says, the market's losses could have been much steeper. The Dow Jones Industrial Average plunged 14.1% that month."
OK ..so without HFTs market would trade correctly and things would be valued properly. Yeah there would be sell offs and probably over reactions on the upside, but they would be dictated by the MARKET....not some fuck-tards hiding behind computers and algorithms.
Fuck Goldman - we are Tyler Durden!
That Tierney statement says it all.
Thank god he was there or the S&P would have gone to zero!
I was wondering that, too.
good articles; good articles 4 slow news day ..http://www..
hat tip: finance news & finance opinions
You guys are hopeless. Conspiracy theories reign. Is that the back of Steve Van Dusen's head in the article?
Having traded for over 30 years....
I can say that I am very thankful for direct access electronic trading....and in particular....the BATS business model....
The BATS model is far superior in that it offers a fully electronic first come first served direct access exchange....
The real need is to simply defragment the exchanges into the BATS model....
Why ? Public securities need to go through first come first served by time stamp, not size....price discovery....
Also, the electronic exchange has become nothing more than a time stamped electronic marker of ownership....
A "public product" should be "only" traded on a "public" exchange....first come ....first served via electronic direct access only....
No internal matching.....no black pools....etc....
This should be done for all "public" securities .....and will be easily monitored by regulators because of the simplification....
Let's get back to basic guys.
Secondary markets produce NOTHING. Their sole economic function and only weakly so is to provide liquidity for people exiting the primary market.
Most of everything we call investing is actually speculation. It's that plain and simple. If governments should prop-up something they should prop up primary lending, and venture capital investments.
Governments have let themselves fall into this crazy debt based monetary system that completes turns the basics upside down
The direct access electronic exchange as represented by BATS is extraordinarily important in that public securities will be the main source of wealth distribution by merit.
This venue needs to be embraced by every major economy in that globalization will not work without it.
A simple, trustworthy single public direct access electronic exchange could be located in any country....and should be guarded as a safe haven of innovation and extemely cost efficient capital.
Foe information....a wiki style format is needed.....such that in any language one can get reliable, factual information.....upon which ione makes their own opinions....
It is of paramount importance that this venue is unencumbered by taxes or being gamed by any entity.....as it truly is the foundation of innovation....
I don't know why you think liquidity goes away when markets go down. It just isn't true.
good articles; good articles 4 slow news day ..http://www..
hat tip: finance news & finance opinions
I see a lot of the HFT bashing going around. I'm wondering if someone can explain why a firm that provides liquidity and takes pennies for it is reprehensible in any way, except that the author and others haven't been able to make money in the same way? They've reduced the spreads for the rest of us and if in the process they make money, well, isn't that how trading is supposed to be? Or has some new rule been introduced that I'm not aware of which says that ONLY altruistic market making is allowed from now on?
EDIT: And if the argument is that these firms control large portions of the volume, then the logical conclusion is to have more firms doing HFT, not less.
"Liquidity" is bullshiz and not neccesary. If a stock wants to crash- so be it...let it crash...or go to the moon for that matter. If GETCO wants to go in and out 50,000 times a day on various stocks/commodities and not take home a position, so be it...this is the market. HOWEVER- if you want to make markets truly efficient- 2 things have to occur- 1.) elminate naked shorting. This is a crime. When was the last time you saw somebody selling yours and your neighbors houses down the block, that they don't even own, as a naked short- to provide "Liquidity" because too many people were buying houses in your town and the prices were going up too high too fast? Seems like a rediculous concept. 2nd requirement: 2.) Eliminate MARGIN trading. If you do not have the actual cash in your account- then you can not buy/sell/short anything over your actual account $ Value. By giving people margin ability- you have many firms and individuals creating a false market and opening the door to financial ruin that we have seen on a global scale. When you go to the store- you are not able to buy 10 bottles of milk at 8:30am and then return them at 3pm in hopes of making a profit on those 10....even though though you never had intentions of actually consuming the milk over night.....let alone do this again and again every single day- on every product in the store. A grocery store is a true market and works very efficiently. Trading is not a market that has any concept of a true market and being efficient and provide true neccesary and consumable liquidity. Trading is an environment that is born and thrives on pure manipulation and is regulated by those who do the manipulating. This is like an 18 year old playing 1-on-1 basketball with a 10 year old and the 18yo makes up the rules and calls the fouls along the way. Pretty one sided! This "market" is not reality in terms of a true, honest and efficient market. In today's market...there is no such thing as efficient and honest- they do not go hand in hand. Thus this market really is and always will be a false reality. So don't whine about it...jump on board the train and get off before the manipulators stop it at the next station or derail it while you cross the bridge. Be happy with the $50 you make and don't try to turn that into $500....because the maniplators are happy with the $50 they make (x 50,000 times per day) They can be beat at their own game. Dig a little deeper...look into the CEO's and insiders who are in bed with those who buy and sell their personal shares for them...there you will find the REAL manipulation story. Get used to it- we live in a fraudulent world. When it comes to $$$$ their is no honesty!
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