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GM Breaks For Trading
Human traders finally appear on the NYSE floor for the first time in years to allow the biggest flip in history to begin. And courtesy of the green shoe, Wall Street's underwriters are about to make $2 billion. Free lunch for everyone. Ironically, Getco's DMM status being fully tested as HFT moves entirely to trading GM. Some very appropriate commentary from a desk: "20% OF ISSUE SIZE TRADED IN 10 MINUTES. THIS IS THE MOST AMAZING CHURN I HAVE SEEN IN MY LIFE."
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Government funded study uses Moody's "Minus Sign Not Recognized" models to show that the return on jobless claims is 100% (multiplier = 2). We can all quit now, collect benefits, and watch GDP double to infinity and beyond in an infinite feedback loop
http://www.dol.gov/opa/media/press/eta/eta20101615fs.htm
I just took a "GM" and flushed it down the toilet.
My bet is that all the POMO money that the Market Makers have made this week has be held in reserve to prop up GM. I couldn't image hedge funds trying to game this nonsense.
Did you guys just see the interview with Girsky on CNBC? He just said that the majority of all GM vehicles will be (or have the option of being) hybrid or electric.
That's massive news.
That sounds like a pronouncement from their government masters, more than a sound business decision.
Either these vehicles will receive huge subsidies to make them affordable, or they won't be affordable, and GM will go bankrupt AGAIN.
That might also mean a bigger then expected demand for rare earth metals coming.
The pronouncement does have a politically correct nature to it. It does not sound like a free company, making decisions on how to make money.
I predicted yesterday that GM stock will be a very bad investment. Now we will see!
Lets be honest, that would require more rare earths than there are production capacities. All of this on top of increasing rare earth costs and rising raw material costs slamming into stagnant or dropping average wage is a non starter. I just hope that the government isn't stupid enough to bail them out again.
tmosley,
You are exactly right. To avoid a long note, lets just say I have depth of background in "high energy density" battery technology, starting in the 70's and watched with anguish this trip by GM into an area that they cannot possibly make money on in the long run.
Real fuel prices must be higher by a factor of 2 or 3 before batterys can economically make a dent in IC engine market. Best uses would be local delivery, city busses and limited use vehicles (ie to and from work only) that could be plugged in at night. Power to heat or air condition the vehicle must come from somewhere. For the IC engine, waste heat is still sufficient. Cooling the vehicle in hot weather can, at very best require 2-3 hp. For the electric vehicle project in which I was immersed (kickiing and screaming), you could cruse at road speed (50-55 MPH) at 9 KW. Since 1 hp = ~0.746 KW, air conditioning put a serious dent in our energy efficiency.
How are our roads paid for? My state has something called, loosely, a road tax. Then there is a Federal road tax. To my knowledge, no one in our overweaning Federal Bureaurcracy has applied a tax to personal electrical use yet.
And there is the issue of leaving town. The infrastructure for gas station fuel delivery has been developing for over a century. There is no reason that 220 volt infrastructure cannot develop rapidly but it does have to be developed.
Given those realities. what do I vote for longer term? Nuclear power is clean and these days, nearly portable. One reference claims 82 nuclear ships in the US Navy currently on active duty and hundreds worldwide. Security required? Yes .
+100
There is no infrastructure, no network of charging stations, no ability to swap batteries or fast-charge, all of these make wide-spread use of electric cars a pipe dream at best.
Effective charging requires 350v, 3-phase power for which there is virtually no infrastructure. Charging batteries takes hours at best, not minutes, and if you need to take longer journeys/haul freight/keep cool or warm, driving electric means not getting to where you want to, needing signficantly more vehicles (because you can't scale from a 1-ton payload to a 10-ton payload efficiently, meaning that in order to transport 10 tons, you need more vehicles do deliver the same amount of freight), and effectively living without heating or cooling whilst driving.
Current best-estimate costs for a single charging station using 350v 3-phase power is, including modest cabling costs, in excess of $3k per station: you need one at work, one at home, and literally tens of thousands for infrastructure. Those costs alone make the system extremely costly just to get into place. How will you react when you're plugged in somewhere and somebody unplugs you because there aren't enough plugs around? How are you going to deal with different plug systems and the like (and yes, there is no normed system of plugs for electric vehicles!)?
If the amount of money spent trying to get a fully-electric vehicle out on to the roads was spent instead on advanced hybrids (wheel motors, coupled with extremely efficient, small diesel engines or small turbines to generate juice), you could reduce emissions faster and more efficiently without creating all of these problems. Political nonsense makes money available for stupid investments that won't work.
Pure electric cars are, at best, a small niche solution. They are not and, based on laws of physics and basic electricity, can never be a universal solution that is, at the same time, an economic solution.
short term might look bright....
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-11-11/ge-to-purchase-25-000-electr...
but, the united states won't see any of those jobs or "cough" profits....
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-11-10/gm-will-take-on-suzuki-in-in...
Man those indians don't know what they are getting themselves into..the monopoly cartels are determined to ride the bailout coaster around the world...
Yea I just took a massive news and wiped my RedNeck Repugnicant and flushed.
he didn't give a time frame by chance?
Welcome to the slave grid
Massive news!
Especially since the market for hybrid and/or electric cars is miniscule.
Watching HFT of GM and Waiting for silver to be delivered...today :)
Yes Im waiting for another couple of cases of .308 ammo delivery today too. Love those metals purchases.
Gold Silver Lead Copper Brass and cold Steel
heh heh. same here man, 'cept mine was 300 rounds of 7.62x39 to feed my ComBloc goodness. :)
Couple of nights ago, I just started reading brand new book The Gun, (C. J. Chivers), a history of the AK-47 and automatic infantry weapons in general. It is over 400 pages long. I have just met Mr. Maxim, having met Mr. Gatling earlier.
7.62x39 bitchez!
You should look at buying reloading equipment. Presses, dies, tumblers, scales, components, etc. That equipment will be worth more than it's weight in gold if/when the SHTF.
I'm taking delivery of my S&W 9 MM next week. This I can add to my .25 with 2 extra clips, and the 'non-lethal' CO2-powered BB pistol, also with 2 loaded extra clips.
"Don't you worry, little lady, I'll fix their wagon." Actually, I don't think John Wayne ever said this, it just sounded good, and got attibuted to him.
A BB pistol is not a weapon... not even a "less-lethal" or "non-lethal" weapon. If you introduce anything into a fight that looks like a gun, then you just started a gunfight. With a BB pistol.
Think about that.
If you don't need to punch 9mm holes in them, then you usually don't need to be doing anything other than leaving in the first place.
GMGMGMGMGMGMGMGMGMGMGMGM
Now back to our coverage of the royal wedding
Middleton seems a great person - dont want to break your free lunch at taxpayers expense though...go back to your GM..
And dont forget sudden euphoria that Ireland is just as bankrupt as before, but might soon be even more bankrupt.
More loans (from who, precisely, is never explained!) will solve ALL of Ireland's woes (NOT!)
Obama and Bernanke are behind their computers, carefully watching it. I have the feeling the Dow will close green today. A red color would spoil today's government-sponsored show.
Proper market enthusiasm must be instilled in order for The People's Republic of California to place its bonds tomorrow.
In a few days this deal will look like a new version of Grand Theft Auto. Be interesting to see who got filled on the IPO along with connections and political views of same.
No shit - all the smart money is slowly dumping their shares in small blocks (thank you HFT:)) and the retail dipshits are picking up these shares hoping to be saved from their ass-rapeage of the past 3 years.
Go figure.
Indeed. What was their biggest asset? Loss carry forwards? Who the hell needs 'em in an environment where they can be synthetically created. This isn't the 80's..
Ya, might as well have been tax credits..
If only you could see the gimmicks they played on their 'sales' for their latest quarter.
Average days in inv on a dealer's lot was ~60 days til last March/April. Since October, its been about 80-85 days. Because any sell to any dealer (private, or GM owned) is still counted as a sale for the parent company.
Earnings Mgmt FTW
Stuffing the channel eh? Plenty of stuffing to go round for Thanksgiving. I sold my food mfg company to a fortune 200 and witnessed plenty of channel stuffing. A viscious cycle that will always catch up to you.
Tulip mania? After the way GM treated its bond and shareholders this is indeed a sad day.
+1 :(
How long did it take Ford Motor to again trade it's IPO price?
How long???????????????????
NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
$64.50 closed its first day trading January 18, 1956
GM ready to break lows of day.
GM just went negative.
No. It is up 2.25. TBTF.
incorrect -33 issue price...34.65 LOD as of 10:05:34
Well, all included, -33 seems the real equity value.
GM will tank sooner then I initially thought, won't take 5 Business Days, just 2-3, tops!
100 million shares already
Watching this issue trade is akin to watching alligators tag teaming their prey for fresh meat.
Autozone still in the "perfect boner" mode.....
I'll die before I cover my AZO short. What a colossal vapor turd.
Not sure they do debtor's executions anymore.
(except in China)
It would be one thing if book value were positive, or increasing.
AZO is no AAPL. It will be executed eventually.
You need to get into the Zone.
The Autozone.
So you can see some intersting types, although they do usually have what I'm looking for. Too bad there's a PepBoys 10 minutes closer to my house.
P.S. My implication is this - WTF are you possibly thinking shorting this so-obviously-rigged market?
No offense intended - I appreciate your bearishness. But even the best gamblers in the world know not to play in a rigged casino (unless of course they "know the owners").
Yup. The only way to short this market is by buying gold and silver. Robotrader won't be posting charts of those today, as they are both green.
Why do I have the weird feeling that somebody is manipulating the price right now? Seems too stable to be true. In normal conditions, everybody would have immediately dumped this stock to cash in government money.
because the underwriters were given special dispensation to trade the stock to support its price
an incredibly hairy offering with no real dividends.
So you're listening to Tiger on Mike & Mike also.
Too bad you cannot short IPOs. This thing will have hit the highest price of its life today. Anything after that is all downhill.
Only the underwriters can do that.
So people bought up futures to increase GM stock price. Now we get to short it higher!
I'm sorry, but the CNBC/Wall Street cabal has done it again.
The smokescreen of GM is hiding a massive Muni Bond collapse, and to tell the truth, I don't know where this is going or what it means.
I guess our poll of what the FED will buy next might actually come to pass.
only a fool would disregard wisdom of the crowd.
everything will be okay - this is win win
But what a circus though!
I turned it on 45 min before the bell to see a "Countdown to GM" clock on the screen. Then there's Rattner on the set, acting like the proud father. Then before the opening, I was amused to see that they had 3 reporters down on the floor.
Next, once GM opened, you hear the roar, and see the sea of traders/reporters part as the CEO goes immediately to CNBS for a 10 minute interview, while all of the other reporters just stood there waiting.
Where can I see the latest Cali muni bond rates?
...expect the muni bond nightmare to emerge from the smoke by Monday at the latest.
35 cracked. 34 next?
just another Ponzi unfolding before our eyes. Nothing to see or learn from this.
just lettin y'all know, there will be a new playlist on friday and i'm not gonna be bashful...its the shit
until then, slide
let it flow (a rap instrumental playlist): http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=A328F37C5AD2C61E
PigMen must have made a fortune in fees floating that GM IPO....
Coach and Estee Lauder now breaking out again to new 52-week highs.....
No doubt, lavish gifts purchased for their mistresses.
132M traded and counting, 35 broken 34 next hehehehe....ya' know...
"There's a sucker born every minute"..........PT Barnum
Auto dealer stocks rocketing to 52-week highs..
Group 1 Automotive...
Good times are here again...thanks to Uncle Benny and the equity wealth effect we are now all millionaires thanks to that wonderful invention the printing press.
...rocket?...looks more like evel knievel in mid-flight.
Looky everybody. Tasty GM. +2.00. Yummy yummy.
They flush, and the GM IPO turd starts swirling arround the toilet...........
Lets not forget all those bond holders that got the shaft as it were.
Who in their right minds would want to own any paper of any type from an entity that can give you the middle figure with the governments backing, blessing and support when the mood or conditions suits them.
Ahhhh what a market!
...and who in their right mind would buy a vehicle from this zombie Obamanation? Bring back evolution, and survival of the fittest! If not, America will never again be a Great Nation.
In the name of the Rule of Law, I, _____________________, swear I will never buy a GM product.
Say it, then live it.
The only GM I've ever owned was a '93 GMC Jimmy that I bought used in '97 and it died the slowest, most expensive death I have ever seen.
I hear GM's quality is back, but I choose not to find out.
Bondholders deserved the middle finger. You should be asking why Citi bondholders are whole when taxpayers had to pony up.
how is a company that makes shitty cars a good investment? i know it sounds old fashioned but really-pumped and dumped by 4 pm friday........
Can’t wait for every American’s 401-k mutual fund and pension fund gets their heavy allotment of that sh*t company. Nothing beats getting burned three times over: pre-bankruptcy S&P 500 constituent; taxpayer DIP financing; and now they are going to pump this thing right back into the S&P 500 so every American owns a piece of the POS whether they like it or not .
Not every American.
401k is for idiots.
America is full of idiots.
Just not 100%.
Just saying it's the primary way people save for retirement and the choices of most plans are minsiscule at best and heavily lean towards index funds. Where else you think the shares of this turd are going to end up?
dont be so harsh...after all thats how they were born..what can one do about that? this is true everywhere.
i think the key here is that americans are not exceptional...and this time is no different...
I pulled the plug on my yesterday. I'm hoping gold will go down a bit in the next day or two. I'll be buying...
+3
Well said.
HAHAHAHA
"mayday mayday we're sinking!"
"You're sinking?"
"yes we're sinking mayday!"
"um what are you sinking about?"
(slight ripoff from berlitz ad)
aaron burnet was about to GM climax and they switched 2 talking about medicare...try a hitachi "wand" honey....
"try a hitachi "wand" honey...."
Classic! Noboby knows about the Hitachi Wand! It was a mainstay in my youth, though. I stole it from my female roommate when I was 19 and went on to become a legend in the eyes of women everywhere. Of course, at the end of my run, I would just lay there and hold it against my conquest whispering, "oh baby, yeah, your so sexy, yeah, do it for me, baby." When in reality I was half asleep. Is there such a thing as faking giving an orgasm?
thanks for the memories - that was great.
o no prob-all the cnbc babes have it under the desk-what else explains there excitement at bad news-they need that extra' umph" to spin everything positive-the wands are second hand-they got them from the Fox babes after w left office-" the thrill is gone"::
"optimism about europe???" bitch put down the crack pipe...
Sudden optimism about bankrupt Ireland becoming more bankrupt with some kind of forced bailout or other....now its all about 24 hour can kicks down a dead end alley.
yep "good news from the eurozone ireland sold untold future generations dowmn the river so some BNP french fukr can buy a new ferrari and 2 russian whores for xmas' good news oyea baby give it to me yea...
what if the gov has to bail-em out again?! wash-rinse-repeat
rattner gets slap on the wrist
I guess the war on HFTs is over - they won. SEC will have tough time fighting now that GETCO is DMM for GM. Is there really a guy on the floor or is it a robot quoting 100-up out to the thousandth of a penny? They can lose millions on that POS as long as they can continue to rip-off every order in the 2000+ other names they manipulate. Great job SEC, the fix continues...
I love these slimy bstds.
The Fed will take in 15B, and not ONE dime of it will go towards repayment.
Not ONE.
They use our money, and profit, and keep it in SLUDGE FUNDS,for use later, and call it a profit.
I call it a good fudgepacking.
Our tax dollars at work!
See the U - S - A in your Chev - ro - let...
... America's the greatest land of all...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGZvQoPxhNs
What would JC do?
"I saw a big flag, it was the star-spangled banner, blowin in the wind, like it didn't matter ...
Jesus Chrysler Drives a Dodge"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtZ8NMFhsG0
GM up almost 8%. Mikey will eat anything.
I started my automotive retail career the year this engineering marvel hit the market.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV_1QTNlQWA
Sweet, just think of all the rubber you would save pulling that trailer around. LMAO
Believe it or not, last night I called GM:NYSE 35.31 by lunch today EST, and I almost got it spot on. (Calculated at 7%). Too chicken to post it on ZH, but should have done to make myself look good :). Put my neck out and I'll give it a week before it dips below IPO price.
However, SAIC reported to have bought 1% (0.5 Billion Dollars) of GM, and before the sale, Canadian Govt 11.7% + UAW 19.93%. - These guys don't look the type to dump their shares any time soon, so there are some mixed signals here.
If anyone feels like dipping their money into GM, it's worth reading the index page of the old GM Corporation here: https://www.motorsliquidation.com/ Very sober read.
Did you magically divine that # or were you using the conv pricing? If so Larry McDonald had called roughly that price on tv as well. Just fyi..
Neither. Used the model for one day price movement in percentages for POMO days, (Since this is akin to one) + V. large IPOs based on optimistic outlook (Considering all the media attention). Least optimistic outcome was 2-3%, most was 9%. I don't know Larry McDonald, but good to know. I'll look him up, thanks.
I see. Well, nice to see for you it would've worked out - unfortunately no retail coulda have picked any shares up before market open unless their fund got in at the primary offering
Exactly.:(. As a purely intellectual exercise amongst friends in London and Paris, it was fun watching the numbers this afternoon. :p. Cheers.
Biggest pump and dump scheme.
Didn't I say it would churn like a bastard?
Give it 5 days, maybe a bit more, then it will crater. The algos and playerz are simply not going to hold these positions.
I wonder if this is going to turn out to be the last big deal for this market? Not that the algos need big deals, but some of the TBTF certainly need them. After GM, is there anything left for them to live for?
All this hype to get us to buy GM stock. But, what should we expect from a company that has believed for 25 years you can sell anything with enough advertising and promotion. I expect the next round of stock sales to be announced at Super Bowl halftime.
Tell you what GM, I’ll agree to buy your stock if GMAC finances my purchase at 0% for five years and gives me $1,500 cash back at signing. I mean, that’s what it takes to sell your cars, right?
Its doing nothing, sitting at $35 where it opened.
Should we play "call the top" - who thinks this stock will ever go above, say, $37?
too funny.
move over C here comes GM.. darling of the HFT crowd
GM opens at $35, a massive churn as every bag holder offloads their worthless paper first and foremost the government. The government is the pumper of this shit. The government probably also going short after 5 days of churn. This is better than the dreadful CIA drug money laundering! Don't hold your breath for a subpoena from the SEC.
Ford, actually having better than ever sales .. is down 30 cents this morning.
Welcome to America, land of the freaks and the crooks.
Guess I'll dust of my sunday go to meeting coat and fire up the old chevy and go for a spin ! ..http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1135100&d...
"we have live traders on the floor" honey those are undead zombie bankers ya see there
in other news jp morgan's short position(and 10 times market cap in outstanding derivatives) will bleed them dry please bring these fucker's down!!!! $30 silver by mon 22nd
wait gm is NOT a penny stock??!!!
GM closes up 3% to $34 from offering price of $33. 445million shares volume. Nearly 80% of public float traded.
so you LOST money if you weren't privileged enough to get an allocation.
Gee, the elite are pretty darn good in leaving NOTHING for the average guy.
UBS just admitted on CNBS.
"we were left out of the GM deal for an inadvertent report that got out on GM compliance. We hope to participate in the 2ndary market."
HAHA...they DARE criticize Government Motors!!!! They get left out of the money train!!!!
What a fraud.
I guess it was an email that disclosed some offering size/price info.
I knew this wasn't going to be a good day, even though they said it was a good day for GM and the stock market. For one the stock was offered at 33 but right before the opening started trading at 35 dollars on the dot, 2 dollars higher. Then it ran up at it's highest for the day 35.99 a share, thats 99 cents over the 35 dollar opening. Then most of the day it stayed in the range of 33.89 - 35.99. The second is that little more than the 25% of the market volume was buying and selling of this stock. For a stock to have this much hype and be a major company for it to literally have at the start of opening and all day to have reached only 99 cents higher on that much volume tells me one thing. And that it was penny stock trading at it's best, people and organizations waiting for a few cents or whatever to go up and then sell and back and forth.
This stock wasn't being used for longterm wealth generation, just for the main players to sell what they have to the rubes and then get out. That would explain after all this about 1 hour before closing the it continued down to 34 dollars a share, 1 dollar lower than its opening. And in after hours trading it's still down that low and in negative territory. This stock was a bust and still is a bust, for all the hype as I said before you get a dollar pop and then stay in that range and lower for that percentage of volume. Tomorrow that stock is going significantly lower.
don't "we" already "own" gm?!? owe we own just the toxic part then??,ok.......
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