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Go Ahead, You Deserve a New Car...
Sure, why not? What's another $2 billion more? The House voted Friday to rush $2 billion into the popular "Cash for Clunkers" CARS program.
The bill was approved on a vote of 316-109.
President Barrack Obama is pleased with the program and the decision to infuse more federal funding as the program "succeeded well beyond our expectations."
Sure it did.
Not to mention all the tax revenue this is generating. Oh, and the publicity doesn't hurt either... We wouldn't want this to fail, oh no.
You think they would have let the party stop over a couple billion dollars?
They should do this with everything. Toasters... Whatever.
To quote an old Doritos snack commercial from the '80s with Jay Leno- "Snack all you want... We'll make more."
Except the chips are all yours... Thanks.
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is the whole goddamn world governed by morons and retards who can not see more than 3 months into the future, and who have no sense of actions and reactions ( that was a rhetorical question )
Fuck it....I' m going to support this shit into the ground and just be positioned for the "Great Reset" This shit is out of control and it doesn' t look like there is shit that anyone can do about it...btw, does anybody have a piece of shit car they want to sell, so I can take advantage of this retarded ass program?
try the scrap yard ... they have some 40 yo piece of shit gas guzzlers, and they will sell them for like a hundred bucks .... but remember you will pay taxes on the rebate .... but, yeah, fuck, its worth it ..
you have to have owned the car for a year or something, do your DD first b4 you waste your time and money...
The car must be registered/insured for at least a year before you can clunk it. And I'm sure all the dealerships are enforcing this with all their friends bringing in trashed cars for free $$$.....
Yeah, the buddy trade.
It's a shame how easily genuine masculine honor gets lost in a suit.
Yep...this program has fraud written all over it...I bet more than a few dealerships are cashing in on this in more ways than just selling cars...however, I bet these same dudes are definately not financing the rest of the price of the new vehicles themselves b/c in 3 months the default rate is going to be huge!!!
Agreed. Stop fighting it - push it more. Push until Goldman is scared. Whip it.
Simply put.....YES.
"What's another $2 Bil?" It's 50,000 YEARS of an avg US salary, that's what.
Not when the Fed is finished, it won't be. Might buy you dinner.
Baby, lets go to McD's. I'm down to my last 2 billion, until my cheque comes through from gristle for groceries
I would say it's worth it, in economic terms. It's some real stimulus, at least . . . and I doubt the automaker employees will be receiving $700k bonuses on top of astronomical salaries anytime soon.
I agree that it's better than giving more money to the banks, but it's still a band aid on a gunshot wound. The funny thing is that if something like this happened 2 years ago the amount would have seemed HUGE. Now $2B is a drop in the bucket, and that's what is really frightening.
It is frightening. But it is what it is, and we're there.
It's no better at all. It's money for nothing, that's what it is, and it doesn't matter if the common guy or some fat cat benefits. It's bullshit, that's what it is.
WORTH IT!?
I'ts the fallacy of the broken f$#cking window is what it is.
Is this money they're 'stimulating' the economy with free? Is there no opportunity cost to 'stimulating' the economy by handing out $$ to DESTROY working cars. Not just that, but basically handing money to the auto industry? Let's not forget the fraud that is going to be rampant, plus the money it costs the government to administer this steaming pile of sh$%t.
This is so absolutely NOT WORTH IT, has never been worth and never will be worth it. Just because it's a better alternative than giving money to the banks does NOT make it worth it. How about not taking it out of taxpayers (or future generations) pockets in the first place? That's the best alternative.
You think the government will introduce a program so that people get a $1k rebate whenever they buy my companies products? Of course not, I don't have enough $$ to lobby with.
What a bunch of BS.
Apparently, there is no way we can stop these lunatics in Washington. Subsidized houses, mortgages, cars, favored companies, unions, our country is going rapidly to Hell.
going?
And the most we are doing about it is beef on a message board.
Myself included, we get what we deserve.
By the way, it's almost end of the month ramp time. Your tax dollars at work.
Well, now we know that all you do is beef on a message board. Don't assume that the rest of us aren't doing more.
That's right. I, for one, am setting my hair on fire and putting it out with my underpants.
What do you propose? Are you capable of running the country? Are you capable of making a new form of perpetual government? Should we jihad? You gonna issue the fatwa?
Project Mayhem was included as an example of how fucking wrong things can go when haphazard idiots are behind the wheel... it was ultimately rejected by Cornelius because alas, nihilism is only capable for the average human in short bursts and ultimately, somewhere deep and dark inside, we like IKEA and the bullshit we own. We seek stability.
Should I go pack dozens of my firearms into my import and head to washington? Is this going to be the simpson's version of "The Patriot?" I watched Commando at least 10 times... that should qualify me for the job.
Saying we get what we deserve is like saying a blind man deserves to run into the wall. We were born into this prison... If the poltical structure doesn't ensure we can't effectuate change, then the economics of self interest will.
Join the club and stop paying your taxes. It's easy (even easier than paying them!) and you can do it while still posting on this message board from your couch. I think you'll be surprised how many people will not pay taxes when they know it's going for cars and bank bailout.
How can the IRS come after everyone?....
agreed.
Right, so what do we do about it? I try talking about this crap with people and find I'm the only one getting worked up and angry. People still seem to think that Obama just needs some time and he'll pull out his magic wand and 'change' everything.
This is what you're up against. This woman can vote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yxe_kwc8klw&feature=player_embedded
does anybody find it funny that the Government bought the car companies and now its paying you to buy the cars.
The TAXPAYER PAYS FOR THE MANUFACTURE AND THE PURCHASE OF THE CAR.....
Tra la la la la la la la la la
now where's that chesire cat?
ROFL! :-)
You mean the Govt bought the car companies with YOUR money and now they are throwing a small bone for you (discount) so you can plow more of YOUR own money to get a THIRD car you DONT need
Unless you work for a car company, in which case a singularity is created and we're all fucked
I'm looking forward to TARP 2, when I'll get paid to borrow money that my bank is dying to lend.
Think about it.
With autos, at least something of real value is being sold.
TARP...should be spelled TRAP
TARP is the perfect name.
Bingo.
And since GM (Fed Gubmint) had been losing $2500 for every car they sell, they are now actually losing $7000 for every car they sell with the help of this program.
The descending levels of absurd perversity are almost hard to keep track of.
A new car is one of the bigger wastes of money around.
YES! That $4500 in equity is lost the moment the sucker drives that new car off the lot. I cannot understand people who repeatedly buy new cars.
Except for a house. That shit can really hurt.
This is straight out of the inflationista handbook. Monetize $2B and destroy what you spent the money on. Instant inflation. If we weren't in a deflationary cycle we'd see the price of cars rise with this move.
That's a really good point.
Doesn't this make every used car on the dealers lot worth $4,500 less, since used cars aren't eligible for the credit?
It's ironic how fast they can throw away $2 billion dollars in one day, when with 280 co-sponsors, Ron Pauls bill to audit the Fed can't make it to the floor.
Uh, there's no irony in that ... just 100% pure corruption.
Oh oh oh I know! Its $2 Billion, right??
Okay, that is probably only funny to a fish.
I'll give you $125 cash right now for your clunker.
WTF. I just got pick-pocketed $5.
Well, you DON'T deserve a new car if you bought a fuel efficient car in the past, that's for sure. We'll just penalize you, and give that $4500 to the folks that bought a gas-guzzler. No good deed goes unpunished.
exactly! Thank you.
I am going to sell my 33 mpg car to a kid and buy an '85 turbo diesel for $2,500 and run it on bio fuel.
Next winter I am going to heat my house by burning stacks of currency. It should be cheaper than gas by then.
And when Obamanomics is done with you, you'll just want to light yourself on fire.
When they take your clunker, they ought to tow it up to Detroit and dump it in some hood so it can be properly dismantled and recycled. That might yield some new engineering combinations, and one or more of them just might take off as the new thing of the next great American bubble. :-)
Yeah, it is sad that the primary beneficiaries of this latest largess is the middle-class set with credit and jobs, but perhaps we'll get down to those folks whose unemployment has run out eventually.
If I were the guv, I wouldn't wait too long.
ironically I believe this is going to be a major backfire, but we wont see it till Q4 when car sales hit 0, and car defaults skyrocket... Merry F'n Christmas all you who jumped on this bandwaggon...
Can you post that Obama TRILLION Dollar Bill again...now that is priceless
Let's all borrow from future consumption. What a great idea, it work so well in the last decade, that the government has been forced to give it a go. Party on dudes.
Don't be so critcal. Barak has a plan. He will load all the clunkers up on some barges and ship them to China to pay down our debt. China wants hard assets, not dollars. This is win/win, for the government, for the environment, for the economy, for international relations. Even the shipping idex will go up. Masterful.
China's new slogan:
"Give me the wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, your compost, and scrap metals to me,
I lift my lamp beside my smoggy door!"
My ass. China has better roads and cars than we do, and just because they're dumb enough to buy our treasury debt doesn't mean they want old chevys
BETTER ROADS?
Anon Bag head person #21044 (get a name, I have suggestions),
That was satire. Guess my joke sucks ass if I have to explain it.
Some dope being interviewed on the GE propaganda channel said "the government is giving me $4500....."
There is the apathy death spiral in half a sentence.
Did this dope even bother to think about where the government is getting the money ? Did he make the connection that it is his money the government is "giving away"?
Alas, the joke and the party continues......
Not to mention he is financing his $30,000 car with a $25,500 loan.
Free money feels so good when it is first available.
Just wait until the panic of a currency run sets in...
That's the problem, people think the Government just pulls this money out of their ass... I guess it's not so far from throwing it from a helicopter, but the point is it's not free.
Whether it's inflation, or higher taxes, or US defaulting (lol!) all this spending will come back to bite us on the ass big time. Is it really worth it to trash otherwise working cars?
its going to be a backfire on two fronts...
1) it shows that putting money in hands of consumers - e.g. this could be accomplished with taxcuts
2) their inability to run this efficiently (e.g. look at the paperwork, etc to BUY A CAR) with only a few billion at stake shows how much of a mess they will make healthcare
i meant to say that putting money in the hands of consumers is the best way to stimulate the economy - eg taxcuts...this proves it...
this has done more to create jobs (right or wrong) than anything in the stimulus package...
someone should stand up and demand they revoke all hte unspent stimulus money and pass it through as tax cuts...
Uh, this wasn't a tax cut, it was a target-specific incentive/stimulus program. Talk around that all you like, but there's a big difference between the two for the economy and the society.
"with only a few billion at stake shows how much of a mess they will make healthcare"
Other countries governments seem to manage healthcare just fine, at significantly less per capita cost than the US currently does.
Maybe the US Govt should outsource it to a country that has the proven capability to manage it?
Crackhead. we have the finest healthcare system in the world. I saw it on tv.
Have a car that's paid in full. Borrow $30,000 to buy a new car. Now you're $30,000 in debt with $30,000 asset. Get back $4500. Now you're $25,500 in debt with $30,000 asset...you think you scored on the deal and got instant equity. Then you drive off lot, car depreciates 50%. Now you're $25,500 in debt with $15,000 asset. That's about right in line with what happened with the housing wealth effect. Thank you, Mr. President and Congress for maintaining our insanity.
Then take out an auto equity loan from Wells Fargo! :) We're so happy now! :)
Actually, you would be $30K in debt with a possibly $20K, rapidly depreciating "asset."
The most insane propaganda about this Cash for Clunkers is the way they pitch is as good for the environment. All the clunker cars must be disabled (the toast the engine at the dealership) and then be sent off to be crushed. More landfills full of what were previously registered (and therefore drivable) cars. At least give them to a charity or something.
This whole thing is a gift to those who can already afford the majority cost of a car while punishing everyone else (taxpayers who don't buy a new car) and the environment.
and don't forget the energy / resources required to build a brand new car
It is such a shame in the trashing of "clunkers." Many people either can't afford cars or need used parts to repair them. It's bad for recyling and another "fuck you" to the poor.
I am *not* going all Mad Max in a PRIUS!
It's just like the proposals to bulldoze neighbourhoods full of foreclosed homes in order to reduce supply, while habitat for humanity is busy helping people that can't afford a home build one.
What's the next stop for the crazy train?!
Most of these poor bastards buying these ain't gonna be able to afford the fuel, tags, and insurance to run them in a couple of years as the US government goes broke. How ironic is that going to be?
Maybe then we'll increase our exports by becoming the world's used car lot.
It would certainly seem to bring us into perfect focus for the rest of the world. Some of us might even finally recognize ourselves for what we are.
We didn't get here accidentally. And most of us were part of the problem.
Maybe there will be more work in the repo industry.
1. US House votes to restrict Wall Street pay. Yahoo
2. Buffett Posts $1 Billion Profit on China Hybrid Carmaker BYD. BBerg
Do you all see the sheer stupidity and blindness in Congress, in Washington, the city surrounded by reality?
Dearest Leader and his followers are asleep at the wheel.
"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."
Dr. Adrian Rogers, 1931
Clowngress does it again. What if everyone buys foreign cars ? And after everyone buys a new car..what happens to demand ? Once again we are creating false spikes in the business cycle by using heavy metal moral hazard.
No....we can't work our way out of this mess. We have to endorse and spend money on more "gimmicks". "Step right up here and git yer car".... "gotta hurry while it lasts !!." "Only 2 billion left!"
It's embarrassing.
They already ruined healthcare, when they invented Medicare. That's what started the spiral of inflati, starting with higher doctor's and drug prices, quickly followed by malpractice and class-action lawsuits, followed by insurance, both for working Americans to protect them against the higher doctor's and drug prices and for the doctors to protect them against the working Americans' malpractice lawsuits, and higher doctor's and drug prices to pay for the insurance....
Pump up consumer spending. Pump up government spending. Nice plan for a nice fake GDP number.
f'ing insane - when do we get a trade in subsidy on refrigerators, boats, lawn mowers, bikes... Now an important question - does the clunker need to have an engine? doors? would a virtual car qualify? more importantly how can one scam the program? And for the enviro-nazis - Where is the outrage about the energy that is expended to produce a new car and junk a clunker?
Something has to break here this is not sustainable.
Hate to disappoint you but;
The car has to be operable, owned by you for 1 yr+, and insured by you 1yr+
Stop giving them ideas!
This wasn't driven by "environmentalist" concerns. That was just PR exploitation by the "stimulists."
Anyone that is still driving a clunker is most likely in the ghetto (lower income). Looks like this is another wealth distribution plan benefiting the ACORN crowd.
But think about the behavioral finance aspect of all of this. First Obama says "now would be a good time to buy stocks", and the stock market PPT team rallies. Next, we want you to buy cars and help you buy cars - The press then says the project is so successful, we ran out of money (SCARCITY). People considering this say, darn I wish I had moved faster. Then, we are going to add another $2B so you better come on down while the deal lasts...
no question that this was masterful manipulation to goose q3 - egged on by the government controlled media they will create a massive rush to trade in cars - and you bet that this is not the last $2b for this program - How will they be able to get out of this? And what about the poor saps that trade every three years - so I am going to go into a dealership while the guy next to me gets an extra $4,500 off - unless I buy a clunker from Frank the junk man - now there's the making of a scam - but I am sure a car dealer wouldn't be recycling already recycled vehicles to appease pissed off customers - car sales people are, after all, honest folks
Ford must be pissed
This is a great program. They need the scrap to make more steel so they can keep up with all the infrastructure the stimulus has created. [/sarcasm]
It doesn't matter how much it costs. If it generated more than $ 2 billion why complain? At least they try to stimulate consumer spending, rather than give banks some more cash.
Enough incentives for fuel efficient cars and maybe one day every American can drive and produce their own civilized vehicle, rather than a 10 MPG Tank.
You must be kidding, right? Oh, sure you are, as no one could really write that and mean it.....
This is why there is there is no hope for us. Some people are actually able to rationalize this BS.
'generated more than $2bn'!?What are you smoking?
How did it generate more than $2bn? Could the money the government funneled to the auto companies via this program not have been spent on anything else? Could the Government not have left that money in my (or future generations) pockets instead?
Do you really think the Government is more efficient at spending my money than I am?
This reminds me of Herby Homeowner 6 months behind on his mortagae payment, with no job and his credit cards maxed out who can't tell his spoiled ass kids he doesn't have the money to buy them another toy.
GM (Motors Liquidation Co) down 2 cents to 48 cents on this news (couldn't they trade in all that worthless paper at $4,500 / share)
http://excarsalesman.typepad.com/cars/2009/07/the-real-reason-for-cash-f...
[url]http://excarsalesman.typepad.com/cars/2009/07/the-real-reason-for-cash-f...[/url]
I see on the gubmint FAQ page that the clunker has to be registered and insured for the previous year, but I can't find anywhere it specifies the YOU have to be the owner over the previous year. Can anyone find a confirmation?
If you don't have to be the owner, then there's a fairly straightforward way to game a grand or maybe two out of this program. I won't do it because I have ethics, but I'm pretty Goddamn tired of these selective government programs picking winners and losers... where the losers are inevitably the average everyday folks who live within their means, pay their bills, etc.
It says it has to be registered in the name of the person selling it for the previous year. But who polices this?
Maybe the populace watching this insanity realize that ($3B/300M) < ($23.9T/10)
I can't believe Congress hasn't authorized a billion or two for Matches for Mortgages where the underwater homeowner is subsidized if he goes out and buys matches, a zippo lighter and some gasoline to burn the shithole down. C'mon Congress. Let's get going.
Yeah, we can solve the housing problem with good old American ingenuity, and a torch!
After bailing out the banksters with trillion$$$$, leaving a few crumbs to the hoi poloi.
The bank charges you 6% on a $25,000 loan, funded by money you gave them through TARP payments to buy a car that you paid to manufacture. God Bless America.
And to incentivize you, they are going to give you back $4500 of your own money. We're making out like bandits I tell you.
*Clearly* you are not yet comfortable being a leech on The System.
Slither into America's large intestine and clamp on, Paul.
Actually, no, through the magic of fractional reserving, that money is created out of thin air.
Next item to be voted on now that this problem is solved is to water the crops with sports drinks.
"Idiocracy" reference
everybody loves electrolites
"Only after disaster can we be resurrected."
Tyler Durden
Or fully crumble into a dark age from which we never recover. Slowly devolving backwards from humans to the eventual sludge that first formed us in the distant past.
Even then I'm sure they'll tax that.
Next Govt. Goodie: Paying us NOT to sell our houses?
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE56U5YZ20090731
The survey of 2,123 adults aged 18 and older, of whom 1,357 are homeowners, was conducted online.
-----
So they asked people WHO DON'T OWN HOMES if they would consider selling their homes?
And this is valid data in what universe?
A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul.
George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)
Right and the way things are going we're heading for a tax paying minority. God help us when that happens.
My idea:
How about government giving subsidy of $100k to demolish any old house to buy a new house worth more than $300k. This will stimulate housing economy.
Screw the system back!
Hold 90% of you're liquid assets outside a bank account,
stocks, bonds, Gold, Silver, anything but a bank account.
So let me get this right....another $2bn (that tax payers have to cover) to fund a program that gives up to $4500 credit (to tax payers) to buy a new car built by Ford (private enterprise) General Motors or Chrysler (GSE's)?
The only one I would consider here is Ford, and everyone knows the reason why. It's not that I've ever been impressed with Ford but THEY DIDN'T TAKE GOVT MONEY!
And this only IF I were considering a purchase...which, like any sane person, I am not. Why on earth would someone go out and buy a new car now...and likely finance it? I can see if you have the cash to pay for the whole thing but really...more credit? That just equates to more defaults down the road.
It's ANY vehicle, under $45,000, not just GM, Ford, Chrysler.
The real restriction is the mileage thing, and the 1-year ownership requirement.
With the dollar collapsing and the the clunker bill ramping. they are trying everything to induce inflation. Imagine we didn't get these shit programs. Prices for cars would drop if demand stayed low. just like with houses. It would find equalibrium. they are doing a disservice to the consumer while trashing our dollar to supoport the auto industry. I don't own a car that qualifies.
Alert! Congress discovers that when you give away free money people want more of it.
This whole "stimulus" thing is like someone coming to you and saying:
"You're deeply in debt and underemployed? I have the solution. I'm going to borrow a huge amount more money in your name. Then I'm going to take a cut of it to cover my salary, benefits, and administrative expenses. With what's left, I'm going to pay a bunch of other people to do various make-work projects. Then they will have more money, and they will buy stuff from you. Problem solved."
It's so transparently stupid. I think all you can do is prepare yourself to handle the inevitable monetary collapse and try to warn others to do some preparation too. This whole idea that the government can solve our problems by taking our money away and mortgaging our future and implementing massive spending on things we would never have chosen to spend our money on is a kind of civilizational stupidity that just has to run its course.
Doesnt this sound like 0% APR, no money down housing fraud.
Text of the Privacy Act & Security Statement at cars.gov:
“This application provides access to the DoT CARS system. When logged on to the CARS system, your computer is considered a Federal computer system and is the property of the U.S. Government. Any or all uses of this system and all files on this system may be intercepted, monitored, recorded, copied, audited, inspected, and disclosed to authorized CARS, Dot, and law enforcement personnel, as well as authorized officials of other agencies, both domestic and foreign.”
Is the real reason of the cash for clunkers program to take over computers (forever)???
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/31514.html
"Cash for Clunkers" - what the FDIC does for fun every Friday at sundown...
Travis, you're an idiot. I guess it's OK to throw 180 Billion down a rat hole known as AIG. Travis, that money is GONE. At least 3 Billion for cars will actually be money well spent. Something to show for the money... cars; and indirectly jobs. Besides a car is a necessity to many people. Name one thing we have to show for the 180 Billion spent on AIG? As to your comment, what's next toasters? I say what's next, Morgan Stanley, State Street, BankAmerica, GMAC, Washington Federal, Fort Lee Federal, and so on. What's next should be grants to the unemployed to start a new business, because unfortunately there won't be any jobs.
Ah, the all-too-predictable outrage against the popular benefit to the undeserving. Cash For Clunkers is SO populist that it is de facto unconscionable and indefensible.
It's at times like these I understand how we got to where we are (as if it was the mortage-equity-spending consumers who put this shit together OR continue to benefit in the $Trillions.)
Unfortunately, with all of this kind of moral, intellectual and financial idealism and firepower, more of the same is the only safe bet.
Divide and conquer is a strategy that works every time. What a bunch of suckers.
The sad thing is that you LOVE it.
Car salesmen and Bankster are now in a Turf Tarp War!!!! My money is the government motors...place your bets?
Count the money. It ain't even close.
I don't like a government motors any more than most people, but IF I had to choose one, I'd prefer to "bet" on people who actually make real things, rather than sophisticated con men who provide nothing of real value.
Pick your poison. It was primarily the banksters and their proxies who got us to where we are today.
Cash For Clunkers is just throwing a bone to the middle class. But at least it has some tangible value.
I love all the "inflation is coming" gloom and doom comments.
We had aproximately 300% inflation over the past 9 years in the real estate market. No one was complaining about it.
Now deflation sets in (and the bottom still hasn't been found in the real estate markets, especially commercial) and everyone is afraid of inflation.
Inflation comes from too much money chasing too few goods. The country and more importantly the world have an overcapacity to produce goods and a lack of demand for what is produced.
This not fiscal problem that resembles the 1970's and early 1980's brought on by oil shocks or post WW II recession brought on by under demand and undersupply. This financial meltdown was started because of a large scale fraud. Investors were led to believe the bonds they were buying were triple AAA due to established ratings agencies saying it was so.
There should be people put in jail. Mortgage brokers, appraisers, mortgage applicants, bond issuers, ratings isuuers.... every one that knew that these mortgages were never going to be paid in full due the borrower's inability to pay. The system was abused and now the bill has come due.
Inflation will spark up again in some sector in the future(watch out China or India) but it is going to be a long time before the U.S. will feel that pain. The problem is deflation not inflation.
"the world have (sic) an overcapacity to produce goods and a lack of demand for what is produced"
Why hasn't any of this overcapacity made it's way into Zimbabwe?
Hell, they've got huge pent up demand and tons of paper currency to boot.
(Although I agree 100% on the fraud stuff with a lot of FedGov and Fed Reserve evil as well)
The price of an asset (house) moving up or down is not inflation and deflation.