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Gold At $1,602, Silver Over $40, To Launch Another Risk Off Week

Tyler Durden's picture


As expected, gold is now over $1,600, after fears about Italy are back, the EUR is tumbling, and questions over the sustainability of fiat and Keynesianism are once again front and center. Elsewhere, silver is over $40. Unless a miracle appears out of nowhere to save the Eurozone and its fake paper currency, we expect $2,000 by the end of the year in gold, while silver should promptly regain its all time nominal highs of just over $50.


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Mon, 07/18/2011 - 06:47 | 1465676 doomandbloom
doomandbloom's picture

who is eating all this Gold!?

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 06:53 | 1465684 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Chinese people. It's a new dietary supplement.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 07:05 | 1465703 speedy
speedy's picture

Of course, it's cheaper than rice! You can dig it out of the ground for only $5 an ounce you know.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 08:14 | 1465839 55 men
55 men's picture

I know, a cheap pair of leather gloves and your neighbors shovel. Let me know when you find some.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 11:47 | 1466559 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Remember there is a disconnect between paper price and physical price.

Paper price might be back at 40, but physical is now at 20.

And since it only costs 5 bucks to dig an ounce (proof) outta the ground, divergence will widen even more.

That's exactly what financial expert Methman predicted.


/sark ozy

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 12:19 | 1466690 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

You need to know where to dig and I'm not telling.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 10:16 | 1466119 thesapein
thesapein's picture

No you can't. I tried it in my backyard with $5 bills. It's cheaper for me to forgo the startup costs that everyone ignores and ignore lies about how easy it is to just dig up fools gold.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 08:34 | 1465868 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

Chinese should just stick with paper and plastic as their dietary supplements.  Cheaper than gold and much more chewable.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 07:08 | 1465713 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

Its just eaten due to tradition I expect.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 10:20 | 1466137 thesapein
thesapein's picture

the old idea is that since it last forever, eating it would make you immortal, but then your enemies add mercury, and the king is dead, long live the king.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 07:19 | 1465729 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

I you put bacon and union rings on it, you've a breakfast for champions!

I used to sprinkle it with diamonds but that wasn't such a good idea for my teeth...




Mon, 07/18/2011 - 07:51 | 1465791 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Did you not use the tooth picks holding the bacon in place for digging out the diamonds?

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 09:49 | 1466033 Dimeboy
Dimeboy's picture

Union rings? - a highly organized food group...

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 11:41 | 1466531 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

They just want whirled peas

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 06:48 | 1465677 Edward Fiatski
Edward Fiatski's picture

Roller Coaster week 2, bitchez.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 10:30 | 1466174 Silver Shield
Mon, 07/18/2011 - 06:51 | 1465678 Dick Darlington
Dick Darlington's picture

Standing ovations!

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 06:51 | 1465679 freethinker4now
freethinker4now's picture

I am surprised it's taken all of this end of the world stuff just to add on a few hundred dollars. I would have imagined it would be higher by now. hmmmmm

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 07:11 | 1465721 scratch_and_sniff
scratch_and_sniff's picture

umm me too, if they were really pricing in the collapse of the Euro, a US default or QE3 you would think it would be slightly higher. Maybe its a case of closing the eyes as the cliff edge approaches…or maybe these problems just aren’t that imminent(jeesh, Aug 2nd is like weeks away)

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 07:54 | 1465796 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

It takes time and several knocks to the head to break years of propaganda programming. 

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 08:08 | 1465822 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

See GATA's latest dispatch. It reveals the crux of your incredulousness.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 08:50 | 1465885 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

If I learned anything in the last couple of years it's that there's probably another (fairly big?) correction coming in regards to gold.  I just have this feeling that TPTB will find a way to knock it down some to keep the sheeple in line.  That said, I'm hoping the price of gold pulls back toward the $1,500 to $1,520 range so I can back up my truc...well, so I can fill up my pocket.


It feels so hope for TPTB to intervene so I can take advantage of it.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 09:39 | 1466006 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

what are you talking about ?  its been in correction for we are early on explosion. i thought it would happen in the fall. but whatever. if you think gold is going to have some massive correction , i think you may be wrong. same thing with silver. what we have seen , is what we get.  these days are the end of gold and silver and lots of it.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 11:17 | 1466398 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

I have the same gut feeling at TrollMagnet. I hold PMs (I don't fuck with paper).

I have a strongly held opinion that if PMs are allowed to appreciate too rapidly, it will pull the carpet from under the system. That is why we have all this manipulation/fraud with regards to gold/silver prices.

I am sitting on my monthly allocation for a bit and seeing what happens ... but I will buy what I can eventually ...



Mon, 07/18/2011 - 09:48 | 1466027 augie
augie's picture

not that my opinion means anything, but i think you are correct about the direction of the paper market. The CME will just raise margins again and the media will back up the "gold/silver are in a bubble" story as usual. However, physical prices i dont think you will be able to get for less than 1550-1575 if that "correction" ever materializes. Listen to drifter, buy physical, forget paper.  

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 07:18 | 1465739 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

A wall of unnecessary worry.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 06:52 | 1465681 Agent 440
Agent 440's picture


So how does gold trend with the VIX anyway?


Mon, 07/18/2011 - 06:52 | 1465682 Silverhog
Silverhog's picture

I would like to thank all the trolls who said Silver would not hit $40 again this year.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 06:55 | 1465691 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

They will be saying the same thing at $50,$60,$70,........

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 07:55 | 1465800 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

as they did at $10, $15, and $20.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 10:17 | 1466124 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

We have some predictions on the board from Spalding and BobD. We'll see where we end up at the end of the year.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 10:45 | 1466229 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

where the hell is math punk?

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 06:57 | 1465693 MBB
MBB's picture


Mon, 07/18/2011 - 06:53 | 1465685 DaBernank
DaBernank's picture

Gold, it isn't just for breakfast anymore. Maybe it now takes $6 to dig silver out of the ground, eh?

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 07:05 | 1465704 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

How much does it take for da Bernankenstein to dig a printing press out of the ground?

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 07:17 | 1465736 DaBernank
DaBernank's picture

Oh, I'm all in the physical metals, mate. Just making fun of the "b-b-but it only takes $5 to dig it out of the ground" idiots. You have to ask HP what they charge the Bernank for a printer. Can he just run off a stack of Benjamens before going out for the night?

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 09:50 | 1466035 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Only about $0.06 cents per bill, then face value, and then interest on top of that.Until never paid off, and the interest continues to accrue.

Hell of a Ponzi our Congress gave away.When  we could print our own, and not have to pay a Cabal of Foreign Banksters interest, and owe them the face values also, we would only owe ourselves.

Hell of a deal.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 07:18 | 1465737 Bang Dae Ho
Bang Dae Ho's picture

How much does it take for da Bernankenstein to dig a printing press out of the ground?

15 minutes.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 08:12 | 1465832 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

well played Bang dh!

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 08:06 | 1465819 MassDecep
MassDecep's picture

No printing presses, just keystrokes nowadays....

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 08:20 | 1465841 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

sorta... but be careful in that reasoning...

The "debt" is just keystrokes... Whilst there really are a shortage of dollar notes in circulation which reflect that... Changing that dynamic alters a lot of variables... Think... bank run...

Case in point... Take a look in your wallet an tell me how many "Timothy Geithner" autographs you see on your paper...

At ranom, I just pulled out:

- 2 Jack Snows (both $1)

- 2 Hank Paulsons (a $20 & a $1)

- 2 Paul O'Neils (a $5 & a $20)


Mon, 07/18/2011 - 10:52 | 1466259 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

I have been paying attention to this as well

Last time I went to the ATM I withdrew $100. All 20s, each one had Tiny Tim's hancock.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 09:03 | 1465920 dollarslide
dollarslide's picture

+1 poetic

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 06:54 | 1465688 HITMAN56
HITMAN56's picture

ZH has vision the rest of the world uses Bi-focals.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 06:58 | 1465694 Freebird
Freebird's picture

Those heavenly safe havens

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 11:01 | 1466293 thesapein
thesapein's picture

I thought we weren't calling gold a safe haven anymore because it assumes a false reality of anything being safe. Lots of things can happen to your or your gold. We somtimes feel safest just before we're...

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 07:02 | 1465696 chump666
chump666's picture

yeah 2000 yr end, on EUR collpase and asia sovereign's buying

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 07:02 | 1465697 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

By the end of the year, silver will be much higher than 50$...

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 07:02 | 1465698 lubyanka
lubyanka's picture

Endgame, bitchez

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 07:03 | 1465699 ZeeGerman
ZeeGerman's picture

They'll be tumbling down the mountain when she comes...

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 07:03 | 1465700 Witchsmeller Pu...
Witchsmeller Pursuivant's picture

Now if the Australian dollar would kindly return to its traditional position as worthless South Pacific rubbish, I will be putting into plan the return to the land of the Witchsmeller.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 08:36 | 1465871 Dugald
Dugald's picture

Yuh, n I'm getting 5.75% on my South Pacific laugh!!!

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 07:06 | 1465705 goldfreak
goldfreak's picture


Mon, 07/18/2011 - 07:06 | 1465706 goldencross10
goldencross10's picture

Well the only reason Gold and silver are going up is because there are no printing presses to magically create more..

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 07:13 | 1465727 toady
toady's picture

Coming soon to a theater near you...

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 08:31 | 1465862 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

"Well the only reason Gold and silver are going up is because there are no printing presses to magically create more..."


Somewhat of a faulty illusion... Instead, they can conjure up electronic debt, which is considered to be money, send it all over the world in milliseconds to manipulate markets... Skim some off the top to acquire PM's & other hard & soft commodities...

FIAT effectively, gets bypassed completely in the process... It's only value will be the day that J6P wakes up and decides he wants to get his out of the bank...

It sounds the same, but it is really somewhat different...

Basically, it's not until they START, ACTUALLY, running printing presses, that the hyperinflation will occur...

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 18:13 | 1468174 goldencross10
goldencross10's picture

Thanks to those bots, HF's and algo programs

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 07:19 | 1465741 GlenD
GlenD's picture

Gold, silver and swiss franc are rising from euro wealth stampeding to greener pastures. Gold perhaps will be over 2000 in a blink of an eye,  the smaller silver market could be overwhelmed by the stampede, price could go to the silvery moon.



Mon, 07/18/2011 - 07:59 | 1465807 Bang Dae Ho
Bang Dae Ho's picture

just daydreaming.... one more example for buying power of silver in the ancient Greek/Roman world... 3 oz silver = annual pay for an archer...

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 09:53 | 1466045 DosZap
DosZap's picture

If one is smart, STEER clear of the Swiss Franc, it's a paper currency, and it's going down the shitter w/the rest.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 07:25 | 1465745 Central Wanker
Central Wanker's picture

Beautiful, just beautiful...

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 07:25 | 1465749 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

PM trolls to return in 5, 4, 3, 2, .....

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 07:27 | 1465752 apberusdisvet
apberusdisvet's picture

Bernanke's last alchemist died; funeral at 11:00

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 08:15 | 1465837 augie
augie's picture

Don't need alchemists anymore brother, now that we have superconductors and monoatomic gold.


Mon, 07/18/2011 - 08:51 | 1465889 trav7777
trav7777's picture

this moonbat shit aside, gold help us if they find a major industrial usage for gold

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 09:08 | 1465934 augie
augie's picture

to the moon alice. 

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 11:25 | 1466442 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

"moonbat shit" is probably 100% on the mark. I only watched a minute of the video and all I heared was that "science is infinite" in many more words. Nothing substansive/factual in all that time, just rhetroric.

Anyone that wants to understand the changes going on in material science should read "Nanotechnology: A Gentle Introduction to the Next Big Idea" by Ratner and Ratner. IMHO, there are only two schools of science left with really big discoveries left to make; bio-informatics and nanotech. All other "schools" are pretty mature and make incremental progress at best.

As a reader, if you can digest half of what is published on ZH, you will have no problem understanding the fundamentals put forward in this book. Yes, there are going to be some really amazing "products" in the future, but they will be amazing just like TV was. Pretty damn cool if you never seen one before, but all grounded in logic, physics, and math; just like nano-tech.



P.S. I am so tired of this technology will change everything meme; it won't. Most of the human species is seriously fucked in the next several decades.


Mon, 07/18/2011 - 13:09 | 1466903 augie
augie's picture

lol sorry you didn't like the video cooter. It wasn't really meant to be taken all that seriously but thanks for the link, i'm very interested in science will look for a hacked copy of the book. Cheers. 

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 07:35 | 1465763 MiningJunkie
MiningJunkie's picture

OK - so now we have overtaken $1,600 Au and $40 Ag, it would be prudent to fade the move on Au in favour of Ag as the 40-1 ratio is still too rich (basis Au). The third hyperbolic wave in 1979-1980 favoured Ag but the move was compressed (as all terminal moves are) into a VERY short window. Conclusion? Short the Au/Ag spread as silver rockets north of the 1979-1980 top above $50. My guess as to the Ag target? $62.87 basis September futures intra-day...

Best trade for the balance of the month? Here it is...


Mon, 07/18/2011 - 09:27 | 1465975 SamuelMaverick
SamuelMaverick's picture

Kaminak is a good junior. I think the whole mining sector is going to do well for the next few months, esp. if the US gov. continues  to step on their crank.  If the US does not pass any meaningful spending cuts ( and I do not think they will ) , then all bets are off with regards to how high Gold and silver PM's and miners can go.  If the US suddenly see's the light and puts the brakes on spending, then the moonshot for gold and silver will be dampened.  Good luck, yours Maverick

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 07:41 | 1465775 jmcadg
jmcadg's picture

If we have $2000 gold, I think we'll see $125 silver :)

I'll get my shovel.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 09:01 | 1465913 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

I have a genuine question.  If you have, let's say 1,000 ounces of physical silver, where can you go and either sell them for fiat (other than ebay) or trade them in for gold without the US gubmint getting in the way?  I've been accumulating silver and gold for awhile and obviously have a lot more silver than gold.  My goal is to trade in some of my silver for gold to lighten the load but don't know where to look.  If anyone can advise I will appreciate.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 09:18 | 1465960 Hooter Shaker
Hooter Shaker's picture

Craigslist.  Carry your weapon.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 09:28 | 1465979 SilverDosed
SilverDosed's picture

Look no further than your friendly local coin shop. Whenever silver is roaring mine is desperate for more silver.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 09:39 | 1466010 James T. Kirk
James T. Kirk's picture

just find an old coin shop run by white guys over sixty or so.  they probably hate the gbmit already, and would love to pay you cash or gold for your silver, and names are not used

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 09:40 | 1466011 James T. Kirk
James T. Kirk's picture

just find an old coin shop run by white guys over sixty or so.  they probably hate the gbmit already, and would love to pay you cash or gold for your silver, and names are not used

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 11:30 | 1466470 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture


Actually, this is 100% accurate. I bought silver originally for the purpose of parting it out one ounce at a time. My thought process goes like this:

I will probably still have a job, that I pay taxes on. I sell an ounce or three a week for cash. The small amount keeps me off the radar. I can then do "official" things with my pay that I might not be able to afford otherwise, and do small transaction stuff with my silver-to-fiat paper, like gas, groceries, and what not.

Unlike many on ZH, I researched a solid, locally owned bank with a good safe deposit box stup. So I don't have to sweat the home robbery and if I get mugged I only lose a few ounces. I know many ZHers disagree with SDB, but that is what I am doing.



Mon, 07/18/2011 - 09:40 | 1466012 Juice Box
Juice Box's picture

Coin shows.  They pay hardcash with no paperwork.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 07:58 | 1465806 AmazingLarry
AmazingLarry's picture

Yeah, but if you price gold in gold.....then it's still less than it's all-time high. Or do I have my charts inverted again!? 

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 08:09 | 1465825 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

So when do the baldy brothers on CNBC come on to Fast (lose your) Money and call it a barbaric relic again? Last time it was $1200, then $1300, then $1400, then $1500 so they are sort of due to brag about all their short moves and option plays on GLD....

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 08:10 | 1465826 knowless
knowless's picture

I should have BTFD..

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 08:14 | 1465840 knowless
knowless's picture

but i bet they'll try to knock it down again

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 08:10 | 1465827 camoes
camoes's picture

Tradition, bitchez

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 08:17 | 1465845 iinthesky
iinthesky's picture

The Bernank, in prior testimony, stated clearly that nobody wants gold... nobody! Thats why clearly I would rather buy MBS anyday at least they can double up as toilet paper.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 08:17 | 1465847 iinthesky
iinthesky's picture

The Bernank, in prior testimony, stated clearly that nobody wants gold... nobody! Thats why clearly I would rather buy MBS anyday at least they can double up as toilet paper.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 08:18 | 1465848 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Gold bubbles are relics. 

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 08:33 | 1465866 pazmaker
pazmaker's picture

It's great!!!!   but I expect a litle retracement once the Demicans and Republicrats reach a deal.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 09:22 | 1465970 gametracker
gametracker's picture

Yeah, that's about right these days. Reaching a deal so that the country goes even further into debt should send gold into a selloff.


Mon, 07/18/2011 - 08:53 | 1465882 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

I suspect maybe ...oh ...say ...0.1% of the US population has any clue what gold & silver prices are doing. 

Yet gold & silver are the only constitutional money in America.

There's no way the average American would trade 1500 FRNs (now 1600) for a 1 ounce gold coin, even though those 1500 FRNs will lose half their purchasing power in two years.

Americans truly are sheep.  And they like being sheep.  And they deserve getting sheared. 

I have no sympathy for them.  I'm not trying to wake anyone up.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 09:38 | 1466005 bernorange
bernorange's picture

more peeps that wake up = less zombie sheeps after the fall

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 10:01 | 1466064 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Yep, deer in the headlights is about the best response you get from the few who actually hear what you're saying.  The power of the conformity programming is astounding.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 13:01 | 1466867 Ace Ventura
Ace Ventura's picture

I concur. It's usually a look which you can immediately interpret as 'oh jeez we need to change the subject ASAP'. Either that or some variation of 'why get myself all worked up over something I have no power to change?', or the ever-amazing 'it doesn't affect me so why should I be worried?'

It gets even more alarming when these responses come from close friends and family. You begin to feel like 'the crazy relative', or the family 'conspiracy theorist'. As soon as that becomes your unofficial designation, you begin every discussion with automatic credibility points deducted.

It's funny, in a tragic sort of way. But as they can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.


Mon, 07/18/2011 - 08:55 | 1465901 monopoly
monopoly's picture

Agree on ignorance on gold. Most people just want to know why the price of butter and milk keep going up. They look at their dollars and think it is mostly ok.

Long way to go. Good Morning All.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 09:32 | 1465987 Jimmy Carter wa...
Jimmy Carter was right's picture

Looking for 30:1 Au-Ag ratio by the end of 2011.  Then 20:1 by the end of 2012.  If you look at the historical ratio 1975 to present, the above is just the inverse of the roaring 1990's .  Except we ain't roaring now.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 09:33 | 1465989 Twice a Day
Twice a Day's picture

Looks like Spalding_Smailes was darn correct forecasting gold at $1600 by June 10; I'll accept that tolerance window. If one accumulated based on all his runners, we'd  be in the black, more so. I chose silver little by little. But have learned, much.

So where is Spalding?; need him back quickly, one of the very rare individuals  who backed up his wisdom with results.

Quite a few of the elders seem to have left; even RobotTrader and Harry W, have been tamed from new sponsors and mob rule.

This is shameful and we chastise the banksters and their ilk.


Twice a Day

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 09:41 | 1466017 HedgetBedgadget
HedgetBedgadget's picture

When Zero hedge started to accept the "... blah blah something BITCHEZ..." the intelligent human beings left or just got bored.

Now, we have to deal with these underlings, shouting all day their useless shit.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 11:45 | 1466548 oddjob
oddjob's picture

member for 4 weeks, Bitchez.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 12:20 | 1466694 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Complaint Department Bitchez!!!!

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 09:40 | 1466014 r101958
r101958's picture

IMO, the TBTF's will milk the budget issue and push silver up as high as possible and then when the budget/debt ceiling issue is over they will pull another end around (just like May) and make a killing on shorts. High? Maybe over 50. After take down? 35 to 40. And JPM will make another 5 billion this quarter by fleecing the little guy again. While this is happening the stock market may go down to about where it was a few weeks ago (12k). I have a bunch of physical and will not sell. However, this is what I think they will do. Hope I'm wrong.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 09:59 | 1466029 Dimeboy
Dimeboy's picture

I too smell a rat... another hard tree shake coming before they let it go and turn on the windfall tax.

The PPT is just in between print cycles right now courtesy of the debt ceiling...

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 10:08 | 1466089 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Rat's can drown--think Sendai.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 10:00 | 1466060 Twice a Day
Twice a Day's picture



Mob rule wins, again.

Twice a Day


Mon, 07/18/2011 - 10:04 | 1466072 MacchuPicchu
MacchuPicchu's picture

Greetings, all. First time poster here. I've been reading ZH for a few months now and enjoying the different viewpoint, enjoying the convergence of opinions (finding my socialist self agreeing with libertarian-tending ZH about the evil of the current government, mostly, and enjoying the shit out of the comments, more generally). Anyway, apologies in advance about the long and perhaps even slightly O/T post– let me know if there's a better place on ZH for this sort of thing and I'll happily move the post. I'm hoping for some advice from the readership about putting some of my money into gold. I've done a bunch of research already, so I'm not asking for an gold-for-dummies response, rather, a specific endorsement of a gold dealer you've used. Here's some additional information that may interest responders: 


  1. I'm not in or near the finance industry. I'm a musician. Accordingly, I don't have a ton of money, but I am attached to not watching that money disintegrate in a Bernankian inflationary explosion. We're talking about buying a couple of ounces. 
  2. I have other money in market instruments but I have very little faith in the markets. Pursuant to 1), I'm not hoping to make a huge return on the investment (though I wouldn't say no), rather, I have the modest expectation of hedging my savings against inflation. This is not speculative; I expect to hold the gold long-term. 
  3. I don't want to buy gold-backed securities. I want actual metal in my hand.
  4. My vision of the end-of-current-system does not involve thunderdome-style apocalypse. Accordingly, I envision selling coins back to the dealer in exchange for dollars as/when I need them. I'm not buying low-weight gold coins for use as direct currency, and I'm not buying silver. I'm also not making six-figure transactions, so any fixed fees are important to me. I've got my sights set on one-ounce .999+ coins.
  5. I'd prefer to pay the spread up front rather than on redemption. I'd also prefer to stay away from numismatic coins and have the price of the ounce of metal be the only determinant of price; though I'd be willing to near other viewpoints on numismatics. I'd like it if the dealer had a policy of guaranteed buyback at some variant of the spot price, though I'm not sure if this exists.
  6. I'm in New York City; therefore I'd appreciate recommendations for dealers in NY – I have nothing against dealing by mail with reputable dealers elsewhere but I fear that would make liquidating the coins more difficult if push comes to shove (and I think there will be a lot of shoving going on if I'm looking to liquidate these things.)
Anyway, thanks to all responders in advance from this financial noob. 
Mon, 07/18/2011 - 11:20 | 1466409 I Got Worms
I Got Worms's picture

Welcome to the club! Check out TF Metal Report site: run by Turd Ferguson who is a regular here, and is the gold and silver chart/trend guru. Go to the Forums section, and there is actually a "Bullion and Coin Dealers" section that people post on where to buy the stuff in certain areas, advice, and who is reputable - I am in Texas, but believe there are some posts about NYC dealers. Turd's blog postings are priceless and should be mandatory reading for those interested in buying physical gold and silver.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 11:43 | 1466539 MacchuPicchu
MacchuPicchu's picture

I really appreciate that, on my way over there now, thanks for the tip!

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 10:04 | 1466076 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

Love your spelling of Un-Yun...Sudden Debt.

But your spelling does seen more practical than the right way...onion...

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 10:56 | 1466273 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

2008 / 2009 / 2010 assorted fucktards:

"gold can't go to 1500 'cuz you can't eat it er shoot bullets wit it yuk yuk yuk....we're in a massive deflation so gold has no where to go but down 'cuz no one needs it when the end of the world as we know it comes yuk yuk...."


Mon, 07/18/2011 - 11:04 | 1466308 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

I just read that it's mob behaviour and bullying to hold PM bashers to account for what they say . . . so cut it out, you meanie.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 11:06 | 1466320 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

Lovers of Fiat are like Vegetarians.

It's a "Fad" diet....and only a minority percentage stay the course throughout their life terms.

Soon....many more will look to get some "meat and potatoes" in their wealth building diets.

Let the Syndicate continue to engineer their destructive recipe....buying opportunities are most welcome.

"Group 11 Whirlwind Bits-Sez"!

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 11:02 | 1466297 SeverinSlade
SeverinSlade's picture

So here's the question I have for where gold and silver go when news on the debt ceiling deal breaks.

Scenario #1

The house and senate agree on a deal that proposes "significant" spending cuts over 10 years (4+ trillion).  Money flows into treasuries on the "sign" that the US government is "serious" on reducing its deficits.  Conclusion: Short-term negative for PMs (and the dip I originally predicted)

Scenario #2

Congress agrees on a deal that proposes very small cuts (or none at all) which prompts investors to lose even MORE confidence in US debt and to come to the conclusion that Washington is not serious about reducing its deficits.  Money continues to flow into PMs and we will likely NEVER again see a significant dip in PMs as they are now the last and ONLY safe haven.

Scenario #3

Congress fails to reach an agreement.  August 2nd quickly approaches and either one of two things happens.  Reid and McConnell get Congress to pass their proposal last second giving BHO full authority to raise the debt limit himself.  This again signals to investors that US debt is junk and PMs are the only way to go.  OR Congress can't reach any type of agreement and BHO uses an executive order to raise the debt ceiling with no cuts AND increased revenues again signalling that US debt is junk.

I'm going to be watching PM movement very carefully following the news of a deal.  A sell off will signal that we should have cash at the ready to buy physical and miners at a discount.  Strength signals all aboard.


Mon, 07/18/2011 - 11:32 | 1466483 cat2
cat2's picture

Other motivating factors to consider:

1) if debt is NOT raised and massive immediate cuts to government spending, then Obama gets to point the finger squarely at republicans as "stopping" his recovery (lie of course, there will be no recovery regardless until bad debt is cleared and corporations/entreprenuers can invest in US without worry of massive burdens like Obamacare)

2) if debt IS raised, the can is kicked but the economy will still not recover, Republicans and Ron Paul will be swept into office.

I think the powers have analized this and are going to choose #1.  #1 could be bad for PMs.  Although either choice carries massive risk, which is why no one can decide what to do.  But believe me, the only thing that matters to the politicians is the 2012 election (not America's future).

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 11:42 | 1466532 theMAXILOPEZpsycho
theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture

Like myself, you seem to be keeping a clear head in all of this. I think it'll option 1. However, there'll later be a way of worming out of the cuts later in the year. Once the markets see this its all abord the PMs train choo choo indeed...

I've kept my power dry (although I have about 75% of what I have PMs already) for a significant dip over the summer.

And just wondering, as well as buying physical - surely (if there is a nice dip) this would be a gorgeous time to go long silver and gold and hold until march, april next year...??

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 11:05 | 1466310 SeverinSlade
SeverinSlade's picture

Double post.  My bad.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 11:21 | 1466413 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Likely, based on the past.  But the danger on silver is on the short side, imho. The market it tiny, the stockpiles are low and Chindia demand is accelerating.   Chinese retail demand alone is enough to explode the price of silver.  I won't touch the Comex anymore. 

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 11:26 | 1466451 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

...looks like our 'Wall of Worry' just got an astroglide application on it....

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 11:48 | 1466563 SilverDoctors
SilverDoctors's picture

Tyler hasn't reported this yet. For those interested, HKMEx just announced the launch of Silver Futures Friday!

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 18:29 | 1468213 SamuelMaverick
SamuelMaverick's picture

Do not forget that the Pan Asian Gold exchange is going to start trading PM's this month also. These exchanges are going to allow more realistic price discovery ( if they are not in bed with COMEX ). This should cause gold and esp. silver to go up.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 12:19 | 1466691 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

It's a good month to rape a gold and silver troll.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 12:26 | 1466716 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

I am laughing at those who thought I was stupid.

As far as the Options the Government might do as presented a few posts ago, I say that the debt ceiling will be raised (Senate Blocks house) and Obama will try to use the Constitution against itself and raise the debt limit.

Every single ounce is now profit for me, I am learning about what it takes to sell without getting plucked bare by ahem... you know who.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 12:46 | 1466804 plata pura
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Know thy grains, grams and ounces both troy and avoirdupois. The reckoning as written tells the weight a constitutional dollar shall be........ teach these things to thy posterity for their prosperity.   

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