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Gold And Silver Reach New Record Nominal Highs – Little Coverage, Bearish And Superficial Analysis

Tyler Durden's picture


From GoldCore

Gold and Silver Reach New Record Nominal Highs – Little Coverage, Bearish and Superficial Analysis

Gold and silver have reached new all time and 31 year record highs in trading in London this morning.

Silver is particularly strong and the euro particularly week on sovereign debt contagion concerns.

Inflation and sovereign debt fears are leading to continued safe haven demand. It is import as ever to note that the record highs are nominal highs and inflation adjusted gold and silver remain a long way from their respective highs of $2,400/oz and $140/oz in 1980. These inflation adjusted highs remain viable long term price targets.

Cross Currency Rates at 1200

Precious metal prices at record highs are symptomatic of the degree of macroeconomic and geopolitical risk in the world today. These risks do not look like dissipating anytime soon which will likely lead to higher precious metal prices.

$1,500/oz and $50/oz remain short term targets. Resistance levels have been breached and thus these psychological price points will likely now be tested. Trading and timing markets remains high risk but astute hedge funds and other traders will continue to “make the trend their friend’.

Gold in USD and Gold in EUR – 5 Year (Daily)

The risk of contagion in the Eurozone and internationally remains real. Already seriously indebted taxpayers in many western countries are set to struggle with the massive liabilities incurred from bailing out western banks.

This is leading to the possibility of even more quantitative easing, a massive increase in money supply and currency debasement on a scale not seen since our modern monetary system came into existence when Nixon announced that the US would no longer convert US dollars to gold and the world entered the era of fiat paper currencies not backed by precious metals.

The record highs were greeted with little coverage and no fanfare. What little coverage there is, remains almost exclusively in the non specialist financial press (such as the FT, WSJ, Reuters and Bloomberg). Very occasional treatment in the non specilialist financial press remains superficial and negative (see news).

The negative treatment of gold and silver is in marked contrast to the treatment of more high risk individual equities and equities in general. Bearish sentiment abounds and we have seen a lot of profit taking this week. These are tell signs and contrarian signals that gold and silver are far from the bubbles that some have been claiming for some time.

Risk appetite remains high. Predicting future price movement of securities, a trading mentality and speculation remains rife. This comes at the expense of a real evaluation of risk and educating the public about the importance of real diversification and holding quality assets passively in a low risk and low cost way.


(Dow Jones)-- PRECIOUS METALS: Gold, Silver Hit New Records; Others Tad Down

Spot gold and silver hit fresh records in Asian trade Friday, but platinum and palladium were marginally lower as further inflationary pressures emerged in China and concerns over the health of the euro zone lingered.

At 0655 GMT, spot gold was down 50 cents from its late New York level at $1,475.30 a troy ounce, having touched an all-time record of $1,479.44 around midnight GMT, while silver gained 15 cents to $42.33, 10 cents below a record $42.43 hit around 2200 GMT.

Regional markets were mostly lower, a data from China showed that both GDP growth in the first quarter and March consumer price inflation came in above expectations.

Inflation is seen as a key risk for China's booming economy, and the People's Bank of China has sharply tightened monetary policy in recent months to avert the risk of out-of-control price rises.

"Someone please cool this economy down now," Standard Chartered said in a note. "We maintain our call of only one more policy rate hike in the second quarter, but we highlight the risk that there could be two more hikes.

Precious metals are frequently a beneficiary of inflation fears, although they have had a mixed performance as an inflation hedge since most currencies gave up their historic links to gold or silver.

Chinese demand for gold in particular has boomed in recent years. J.P. Morgan's China equities and commodities managing director, Jing Ulrich, said Friday that Beijing's attempts to moderate the country's housing boom could be driving the "mass affluent" toward gold.

"Chinese demand for gold jewelry increased 13.5% [on year] in 2010, while demand for bars & coins rose 70.5%," she said in a note. "Most market participants expect that China's gold demand could grow at a still-stronger pace in 2011."

Silver's booming price has seen it move well beyond traditional ratios with gold. An ounce of gold has usually been worth at least 60 oz of silver in recent years, but an ounce of gold currently buys only around 34.7 oz of silver.

A trader for a European broker in Hong Kong said that silver could continue to outrun the yellow metal, since it was exposed to both industrial and booming investment demand.

"I think silver can continue to go a lot higher and continue to outpace gold. There's no downside limit to the gold-silver ratio. I think it could go a lot lower," he said.

(Bloomberg) -- Gold Trading Climbed 5% in March, Silver Gained 3.2%, LBMA Says

Gold trading rose 5 percent to an average of 19 million ounces a day in March, the London Bullion Market Association said today in an e-mailed statement. Silver trading increased 3.2 percent to an average of 145.7 million ounces a day, the LBMA said.

(Bloomberg) -- China’s March Gold Output Surges 35% to 57.6 Tons; Silver Gains

China’s March gold output gained 35 percent from the same time last year to 57.6 metric tons, according to a statement from the statistics bureau today. Silver output increased 34 percent to 1,052.6 tons, it said.

(Bloomberg) --  Coeur D’Alene Says Bolivia Silver Mine in Production ‘as Usual’

Coeur D’Alene Mines Corp. said silver production at its San Bartolome mine in Bolivia is under way “as usual” and there is no expropriation of its property rights in the country.

Tony Ebersole, a spokesman for the company, commented today in an e-mailed reponse to questions from Bloomberg News. Bolivian state-owned mining company Comibol may rescind contracts with companies including Coeur D’Alene, La Paz-based newspaper La Razon reported yesterday.
The shares fell $2.45, or 7.3 percent, to $31.31 as of 1:53 p.m. in New York trading. Earlier they dropped as much as 9.7 percent, the biggest intraday decline since May 20, 2010.

(Bloomberg) -- U.S. Mint Says 2011 American Eagle Gold Coin Available April 21

The U.S. Mint will start taking orders for the 2011 American Eagle Gold Proof Coins on April 21, it said in a notice on its website. The coins will come in four sizes ranging from one ounce to a 10th of an ounce, the U.S. Mint said today.

(Bloomberg) -- Belarusian Central Bank Drops Sales of Precious Metals in Rubles

Belarus’s central bank stopped setting prices in rubles for its sales of gold, silver and platinum to companies, individuals and banks, offering the precious metals in dollars, according to the regulator’s website. The bank is continuing to accept rubles on its purchases of precious metals.

(Bloomberg) -- U.K. Royal Mint Gold Output Slips 18%, Silver Output Gains (1)

The U.K.’s Royal Mint, established in the 13th century, said first-quarter gold-coin production slipped 18 percent from the previous three months.
 The mint used 28,939 ounces of gold, compared with 35,113 ounces in the fourth quarter of 2010, according to data obtained by Bloomberg News under a Freedom of Information Act request.

Gold advanced to a record $1,478.18 an ounce on April 11 as investors sought to protect their wealth amid concerns inflation will accelerate and as governments debase paper currencies.

The metal for immediate delivery averaged about $1,388 in the first quarter from $1,370 in the prior three months. Gold was at $1,467.07 an ounce by 4:14 p.m. in London. It has risen for 10 straight years, the longest run since at least 1920.

The U.K. mint used 208,468 ounces of silver in the first quarter, up 22 percent on the 170,251 ounces in the prior three months. Silver averaged $31.97 an ounce in the first quarter.

The mint moved to Llantrisant in Wales from London’s Tower Hill in 1968. It makes coins including the 22-carat 2011 U.K. Sovereign Proof, weighing 7.99 grams (0.26 ounce) and costing 375 pounds ($611), the state agency’s website shows.

A 22-carat coin has a 91.6 percent gold content, according to the World Gold Council.

(Bloomberg) -- Royal Canadian Mint Added to LBMA’s Silver Good Delivery List

The Royal Canadian Mint’s refinery was added to the London Bullion Market Association’s “good delivery list” for silver, effective today. The Mint has been on the LBMA’s gold list since about 1919, the LBMA said in a statement today.

(Bloomberg) -- Silver Speculators ‘Gunning’ for 1980 Record: Chart of the Day

Silver prices that doubled in the past year may be headed to a record above $50 an ounce on signs that higher trading costs have failed to deter new buyers, said Matt Zeman, a strategist at Kingsview Financial in Chicago.

The CHART OF THE DAY shows that holdings of New York futures by small speculators doubled since March 2010, even as their minimum deposit, or margin, for a 5,000-ounce contract jumped 74 percent to $8,700. Silver touched $42.21 yesterday, the highest since 1980, the year prices reached a record $50.35 as the Hunt Brothers helped corner the market.

 “People are gunning for $50,” said Zeman, who correctly predicted a January slump in gold prices. “The margins aren’t discouraging buying yet. People are still very willing to pony up the money.”

Silver futures for May delivery rose yesterday by $1.427, or 3.5 percent, to close at $41.664 on the Comex in New York, bringing the cost of one contract to $208,320. The metal surged 84 percent last year, second only to cotton among the 19 commodities tracked by the Thomson Reuters/Jefferies CRB Index.

Margins for small speculators, who have less cash available to finance trading than do hedge funds and large investors, may have to rise another 15 percent to $10,000 before “you’re going to see buying interest dry up,” Zeman said. “That’s getting very expensive for a lot of small traders and small speculators.”

For silver’s rally to continue, it must attract new buyers, Zeman said. Prices generally drop on the day that margins are raised because small speculators must put up more money to trade or are forced to sell their positions to cover the margins.

Silver fell 0.9 percent on March 25, the last time margins were raised, halting a five-day rally to $38.18. At the time, the price was the highest in 31 years.

(Irish Times) – Proinsias O’Mahony: Silver Linings

Oil is not the only commodity that may be ripe for profit-taking. Silver has risen by over 30 per cent in 2011 and more than doubled over the last 12 months.
Having exceeded $40 this week, it’s looking pricey. One ounce of gold now buys about 36 ounces of silver, compared to an average of 62 over the last 10 years. This is the first time since 1983 that the gold-silver ratio has dipped below 40-1. Bulls note that the ratio was higher still in 1980, when silver hit its all-time high of $50.35. However, that was a freak event.

Prices rose eight-fold inside a year after the billionaire Hunt brothers attempted to corner the market by buying up to one-third of the world’s supply.
A change in the exchange’s leverage rules resulted in a price crash, with the brothers losing most of their fortune and eventually being banned from commodity trading.

Silver may yet go higher, of course, but it’s seldom looked so expensive.

Editors Note: This analysis like many looks at silver purely in terms of price and the recent price increase and in terms of trading and “taking profits”. It fails to consider the all important factor of physical supply (dwindling) and demand (industrial and investment increasing significantly from a low base).

The Hunt Brothers cornering the market was responsible for silver going parabolic in late 1979. However inflation in the 1960’s and an oil crisis and stagflation in the 1970’s led to safe haven demand and drove silver from $0.91 in 1961 to $1.29/oz in 1967 to $10/oz in the summer of 1979 prior to going parabolic in the final months of 1979.

Also, the article fails to acknowledge that the gold silver ratio throughout most of the 19th Century and throughout most of history was from 12 to 15 to 1.

The opinion is based on assumptions regarding past performance and is thus superficial at best. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. It also fails to have a historical perspective which is vitally important in these times.

Timing markets and speculation remains high risk and investors would be well advised to continue to own a range of quality assets with allocations to gold and silver. Asset diversification and wealth preservation through ownership of precious metals in the safest way possible has never been more important.

(Dow Jones Marketwatch)-- Gold investing: what to do and how to do it

Investors can still make a lot of money in the gold market — or prevent losing it, if they do their homework before they wade through a sea of investment choices.

Gold has been in a volatile trading environment, to say the least, with prices repeatedly climbing to new heights since 2008, only to lose big chunks of those gains in a single day. Deciding what to do with gold and how to do it has been a challenge even for seasoned investors.

After all, gold investment choices come in many different forms: bars, coins, jewelry, futures and options contracts, exchange-traded funds and gold mining shares.

‘The good news for gold and silver is the ‘mother’ of all bull markets has further to go. The bad news is the opportunity to double or triple one’s money is behind us.’

Peter Grandich, The Grandich Letter

“The good news for gold and silver is the ‘mother’ of all bull markets has further to go,” said Peter Grandich, editor of The Grandich Letter. “The bad news is the opportunity to double or triple one’s money is behind us.”

So what’s an investor to do?

For one thing, don’t rush to sell. If you’re thinking of cashing out, carefully consider your options and have a good reason before you do, say most experts.
“While gold and silver have been relatively volatile in recent weeks, they have remained solid long-term uptrends,” said Brien Lundin, editor of Gold Newsletter. “These uptrends are based on fundamental economic and monetary issues — primarily too much currency floating around the world, the continuance of accommodative monetary policies, and governmental debt concerns so large that they cannot be addressed without higher levels of inflation to eat away at their values.”

That all means the long-term picture looks bullish for both gold and silver, “although the wiggly lines that make up the bigger uptrend will provide better times to buy and sell the metals,” he said.

He wouldn’t recommend that investors sell their core holdings in the metals. He advises investors to “hold some gold and silver bullion as financial ‘insurance’ — a core holding that they shouldn’t trade.”

Getting gold, alternatives into 401(k)

Most 401(k) investors don't have access to gold, commodities and other alternative investments, according to John Ameriks, principal at mutual-fund giant Vanguard Group. Still, he says employees can push for these options. Jonathan Burton reports.

That seems to be great advice, given the mostly upbeat outlook for higher gold prices.

Gold has reached record levels, but it “remains a long way from its real inflation-adjusted high of $2,400 an ounce seen 31 years ago,” said Mark O’Byrne, executive director at international bullion dealer GoldCore. And “whether gold will fall or not, at some stage, is irrelevant if one is buying for portfolio diversification, safe haven and store of value reasons.”

Big decision

So the best way to make the right decision to buy, sell or hold gold is to first fully understand investment goals.

Are you looking at gold as a short- or long-term investment and why?

“Sell out completely if you believe that gold is in a bubble and any slowdown in worldwide economic growth will cause commodity prices, including gold, to tumble as inflationary expectations come down,” said Robert Barone, a partner and portfolio manager at Ancora West Advisors in Reno, Nev. Or “stay completely in (or even add to your holdings) if you believe that the U.S. dollar will continue to get weaker due to inflationary economic policies.”
“If you aren’t sure, take some off the table,” he said. “Sometimes, it is a good idea to take your investment out (or reduce it) and ‘play’ with the house’s money,” and you can do that by selling part of your holdings outright, setting stops underneath the current market price or using options.

That gradual approach may be a good choice.

If you’re not so confident over where gold prices will head next, you can “average in,” said Edmond Bugos, director of mining finance at Strategic Metals Research & Capital.

If you want to buy $100,000 worth of gold, but think gold prices are too high and aren’t sure prices will come down, you can buy $20,000 today, $20,000 in a week and $20,000 in another week and so on, he explained.

“This lowers your risk a little … and can get you a good average price,” he said. So “averaging in” is “a good way to get your feet wet if you don’t have the patience to wait out the dips and corrections.”

Selling with confidence

But some investors will feel they have no choice other than to sell their gold for some quick, much-needed cash.

“If you need cash, now is the time to take gold off the table,” said Tom O’Brien, chief executive officer of investor educational services provider
If you do decide to sell, getting a fair price won’t be easy.

“It is imperative that the investor do their homework when selling gold,” said O’Brien, who’s also editor of The Gold Report. “If the investor owns an ETF, or gold company … they will get fair market value.”

Gold ETFs include the SPDR Gold Trust (CONSOLIDATED:GLD) , ETFS Gold Trust (CONSOLIDATED:SGOL)  and iShares Comex Gold Trust (CONSOLIDATED:IAU) . Year to date, all three have gained nearly 4%, close to the rise seen in gold futures prices for the period.

John O’Donnell, chief knowledge officer at the Online Trading Academy, referred to ETFs as “safe,” but said he’d prefer to own coins rather than gold mining shares. “Gold is money. A mine is a business [that] can suffer operating losses.”

Indeed, there’s a lot besides the actual price of gold that may move the stock price for gold mining companies, said Ancora’s Barone, including the company’s financial condition, debt levels, the quality of its management and existing mines, its exploration outlook, environmental issues and taxes.
Year to date, Barrick Gold (NYSE:ABX) , the world’s largest gold producer, has seen its shares climb about 0.5% compared with a nearly 4% rise in gold futures (COMMODITIES:GCM11) .

The real thing

When it comes to physical representations of gold, selling and buying become trickier.

Selling an ETF is as simple as calling a broker. But “a little more research may be warranted if you have a coin,” said Mike Savage, a chartered financial consultant and founder of Savage Financial Group in East Stroudsburg, Pa. “There are many different values for the same coin based on the condition and scarcity of the coin. While buying and selling coins, the person with the most knowledge will usually win the negotiation.”

A coin dealer has overhead and needs to make a profit, according to Barone, so investors would need to “pay anywhere from a 3% to a 20% (or more) premium to buy and suffer a similar discount when selling.”

David Beahm, a vice president at precious-metals retailer Blanchard & Co., says gold and silver bullion coins are “sold for only a small margin above the spot price.”

Some dealers, however, advertise new bullion products as numismatic investments — in other words, they have special value to collectors — and so charge a much higher premium than is typically charged for a bullion product, he said.

“The reality is that these new mint products should have a value that correlates close to their precious metal content.” Read more about gold investment basics.

Melt value

Meanwhile, with gold prices at historic highs, consumers are starting to look at their old jewelry as a source of cash.

Cash4Gold, an Okinawa, Fla.-based mail-in refinery that buys precious metals directly from consumers, has become a popular, sometimes criticized, means for consumers to monetize unwanted jewelry.

A company spokesperson said Cash4Gold “bases its offers to consumers on daily gold prices, the quality of gold being offered and the quantity,” and consumers have 12 days from the date on the check to accept its offer or request their items back, promptly returned, insured and free of charge. Read more about selling jewelry.

Gold Newsletter’s Lundin said consumers should not be tempted to simply cash the check they get from mail-in services, but take their time and “check with a number of local dealers” to get the best price.

When it comes to selling that old jewelry for its gold,’s O’Brien said the client should be getting about 80% of the melt value.
“The majority of dealers give way below that level because the public just doesn’t understand what they have is valuable,” he said. But “a very small amount of gold is worth big dollars. It doesn’t matter what shape it’s in.”


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Fri, 04/15/2011 - 07:38 | 1171734 aVian
aVian's picture

tptb dont want the sheep to protect their wealth, poor sheep are good sheep

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 07:44 | 1171743 umop episdn
umop episdn's picture

But debtor sheep are even better sheep!

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:37 | 1171840 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

I'll take my Sheep with a side order of debt slavery. Do you have any Moody's debt rating sauce?

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 09:20 | 1172013 camoes
camoes's picture

I like my sheep with Apple sauce and ordered by Opentable using

Can I eat it with my silver fork & knife and drink with my golden cup?

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 07:39 | 1171736 jesusonline
jesusonline's picture

I know it’s faux pas to talk about CNBC and link CNBC stuff, but you have to watch it. Yesterday Kudlow had a segment “Ditching Dollars” about that BRICS meeting the other day, setting up swap lines, etc. (A "cabal" of countries, including Brazil, Russia, India and China, could be pushing to have the dollar replaced as the world's reserve currency…”)

Three guests and Kudlow. And one of the guests – Lutnick from Cantor – really stole it.

Toward the end of it (about 11:40)

Kudlow: You told me this is going to end and it may not end well (money-printing)

Lutnick: Of course it's not going to end well.

Kudlow: I want it to end well. that's why i prefer currency stability with king dollar tied to gold

Lutnick ....Ready? here is what we did last time. when the japanese owned all our debt. the rest of the world owned all our debt. what did we do??...

Kudlow: What did we do?

Lutnick shouts out victorious: We inflated it away!!! And calmed down the cost! (it was like like yes, we did it! America!!!)

Kudlow: Oh my God… Oh Christ…

But Lutnick’s not letting him go, keen to hammer his king dollar fantasies: You watch it happen again. this is the same movie. inflate it away.”

Kudlow has that face like you just ruined my whole program man

That was fucking hilarious, I’m telling you, I couldn’t stop laughing xD

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 07:50 | 1171750 Waterman Jim
Waterman Jim's picture

I'm calling it the "worldo". When anyone starts talkin' one world currency, I think to myself, and sometimes reply..

Worldo Bitchez!

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 09:17 | 1171999 mark mchugh
mark mchugh's picture

Trademark that shit, Jim!

I think you're on to something.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 10:45 | 1172365 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

i prefer "the Mark™"....

it's a beastly good name.

video's already gone

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 15:19 | 1173617 FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

amazing how these videos disappear isn't it?  NOT!

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:18 | 1171797 Cdad
Cdad's picture


Lutnick's comments last night on  What an utter scum bag.  I've said it often...we cannot recover from this economic breakdown until guys like him are gone.  Capital will not form again in the hands of such men.  It's funny...these guys have been trying for three years to establish fund flows...and yet they do not have enough sense not to go on air and say such things as Lutnick said last night...and it is because this is the very nature of the men we are dealing with.

The criminal banking crew in this nation is entirely comfortable destroying the value of the US dollar and crushing saving interest rates as their primary highway of return on capital in equity markets.  You have just seen one of the syndicate members say so. should probably post up that Kudlow video...I think a lot of folk would enjoy/puke watching it.


The clip makes your case for PMs...although I think all commodities will probably come off hard today.


Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:24 | 1171811 jesusonline
jesusonline's picture

Thumbs up for saying like it is, Cdad :)

You have just seen one of the syndicate members say so.

Indeed. And it was amusing to see Kudlow choking on it - whoah man, don't let that best known secret out in the open like that!

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:39 | 1171851 Cdad
Cdad's picture

It continues to confound...why the lay offs in the financial services sector have not begun.  If you look at it from a fund flow perspective, or from its ever shrinking representation within the S&P...this whole group needs massive reductions in people.  After all, with no loans going out into an broken economy, and real fund flows into equities but a trickle, what are all these bankers doing all day?

Answer:  destroying dollars, Ponzi trading treasuries, and writing bogus earnings opinions on plague-like banks such as Blight of America bank.

Enough already!  100,000 financial services firings, please.  We already have too many useless people in the country.


Fri, 04/15/2011 - 09:21 | 1172025 Infinite QE
Infinite QE's picture

Let's remember Lutnick on 9/11. He just happened to take that day to take his kid to school and was "late" for work. Then he came on CNBC saying how he ran to a pay phone after the event, cut in front of everyone so he could tell his daughter he was ok. World class scumbag.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 07:43 | 1171737 Pants McPants
Pants McPants's picture

A standing ovation for honesty, please.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 07:43 | 1171738 Debtless
Debtless's picture

Wealth preservation - now coming into its own. The rhetoric is just noise.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 07:46 | 1171742 saulysw
saulysw's picture

"Gold and silver have reached new all time and 31 year record highs in trading in London this morning. Silver is particularly strong and the euro particularly week on sovereign debt contagion concerns."


Week => Weak

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:07 | 1171781 AG BCN
AG BCN's picture

You tedious little man.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 10:56 | 1172424 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

man => fish

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 07:47 | 1171745 saulysw
saulysw's picture

You know, as soon as ZH mentions the metals are doing well, they nose dive. Seriously.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:18 | 1171799 Idiot Savant
Idiot Savant's picture

By nose dive, do you mean a one or two percent correction? Metals haven't taken a nose dive since 2008.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 10:43 | 1172370 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Are you suggesting correlation or coincidence?   What's the point here?

If correlation then all Tyler has to do is post anti-gold articles and the metal will go stratospheric.    There is the distinct possibility that one can spend too much time on one website.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 07:49 | 1171746 Cash_is_Trash
Cash_is_Trash's picture

What's today beat-down of choice?

Margin hikes?

Goldman disfavor?

Fed hawkish talk?

Let it float, let it float...

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 07:53 | 1171753 LoneStarHog
LoneStarHog's picture

"Bearish sentiment abounds and we have seen a lot of profit taking this week." - This is BULLSHIT! ... The Open Interest has been going UP. ... This is NOT PROFIT TAKING ... It is JP Morgan SHORTING ALL BUYERS!

Goddamn it, Tyler, post information from a CREDIBLE SOURCE!

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 07:53 | 1171755 Client 9
Client 9's picture

Remove crude oil from the global economy tomorrow and we can't fly, drive, ship or heat our homes.

Remove wheat from the global economy tomorrow and we starve.

Remove iron ore from the global economy tomorrow and we can't build anything.

Remove gold and silver from the global economy tomorrow and.............


Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:02 | 1171776 Quintus
Quintus's picture

One of the few places you can park your money where the Banksters can't dilute it away, steal it, default on it, charge you for 'Managing' it or lend it to some deadbeat who won't pay it back is removed.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:13 | 1171792 Client 9
Client 9's picture

Same can be said for TIPS and prime rental property. Both much easier to value due to yield.

If Au and Ag vanish tomorrow world barely misses a beat.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:46 | 1171877 Quintus
Quintus's picture

Yeah.  TIPS.  That's funny.  The person who owes you money will tell you the inflation rate that they use to calculate the amount of interest they will pay you.  I don't see any flaw in that.  

Prime rental property.  Yup.  Rock solid.  There's no way the Government could increase taxes on your properties or anything like that.  Are you serious?  

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 10:01 | 1172183 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

I wouldn't worry about property taxes (in the medium-long term) so much as increases to the tax rate for passive income...

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:52 | 1171889 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

"Same can be said for TIPS and prime rental property."

You can't eat those, either.  LOL.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 10:15 | 1172233 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

If silver were to disappear, the next Ipad to come out is going to be made out of cotton and used for female hygiene purposes.


Fri, 04/15/2011 - 10:32 | 1172315 Kegfreak
Kegfreak's picture

You beat me to it!  I blame time zones.  The size of most electronics would be a lot bigger at the very least.  My Droid already takes up my whole pocket.  I don't wanna look like Gordon Geko with that big ass brick!

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:08 | 1171786 Waterman Jim
Waterman Jim's picture

...we can't lend money.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:16 | 1171800 Crisismode
Crisismode's picture

Remove crude oil and . . . . we can't fly?? Boo hoo! No more feel-ups from TSA! We can't drive? Get a bicycle. We can't ship? Get a sailboat. We can't heat our homes? Get a woodstove.

Remove wheat? Eat what you grow in your garden.

We can't build? Fell your own trees and build a log cabin.

Remove Gold & Silver? Wipe your butt with fiat paper, if that's all you own, because in about 5 years you are going to be living like all of the above.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:31 | 1171831 Client 9
Client 9's picture

You blithely and ignorantly depict a world that regressed centuries in every conceived walk of life. Medicine, technology, mass farming, transportation etc.

Your feudal society probably results in a global plague that wipes billion of hungry, sick and hopeless spirits from the Earth.

Thanks for highlighting the lunacy of the gold and silver trade. I couldn't have done it better myself.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:38 | 1171841 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

"In another dig at the dollar, the development banks of the five BRICS nations agreed to establish mutual credit lines denominated in their local currencies, not the U.S. currency.

The head of China Development Bank (CDB), Chen Yuan, said he was prepared to lend up to 10 billion yuan to fellow BRICS, and his Russian counterpart said he was looking to borrow the yuan equivalent of at least $500 million via CDB.

"We think this will undoubtedly broaden the opportunities for Russian companies to diversify their loans," Vladimir Dmitriev, the chairman of VEB, Russia's state development bank, told reporters."

if you are not with us (Brics) you are not with us..why PM's are moving  &the FRN is weak and heading for new historic lows..

BTFD if there ever is one.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 11:01 | 1172458 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

btfd once more, with feeling, for old time's sake

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:32 | 1171825 dynomutt
dynomutt's picture

Remove gold and you can't make gold-plated monster cables that are priced higher per ounce than gold.


Remove silver and you can't make any modern consumer electronics nearly as well.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:49 | 1171878 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Uhh, that's the point.  People can buy up gold and silver and drive their prices into the stratosphere without hurting ANYONE.  You can't do that with the dollar, because you will be diluted out quickly.  You can try it with financial machinations, but then you lose everything when your counterparty collapses, as in 2008 (or the taxpayer gets ripped off to make you whole).

Morons like you don't understand the purpose of gold or silver.  That is why you will find yourself impoverished in the coming years.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 12:45 | 1172933 prole
prole's picture

Uh, he won't be impoverished ever because he has got a government paycheck coming in. Mubarak's goons keep getting paid until Mubarak is out. Then they probably still keep getting paid.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 09:56 | 1172160 savagegoose
savagegoose's picture

sell it will be worth a fortune

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 10:47 | 1172390 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Remove gold and silver from the global economy tomorrow and.............

A substitute will be found immediately for gold.   Nothing known today meets the criteria that gold offers, but second best will do.   As for silver, there would be hell to pay since its industrial and health care uses are astounding.  It's back to the drawingboard for you.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 07:56 | 1171756 GIANTKILR
GIANTKILR's picture

I bought mine a while back. I wish I had bought more. It's just common sense that metals are going to keep going up. It's the only true wealth. Paper is paper and they have printed a ton of it.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 09:04 | 1171960 Translational Lift
Translational Lift's picture

"Paper is paper and they have printed a ton of it."

Actually it's too expensive to print that much fiat......they just keep adding X's & O's.........

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 07:54 | 1171757 GIANTKILR
GIANTKILR's picture

I bought mine a while back. I wish I had bought more. It's just common sense that metals are going to keep going up. It's the only true wealth. Paper is paper and they have printed a ton of it.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 07:56 | 1171758 GIANTKILR
GIANTKILR's picture

I bought mine a while back. I wish I had bought more. It's just common sense that metals are going to keep going up. It's the only true wealth. Paper is paper and they have printed a ton of it.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 07:56 | 1171759 GIANTKILR
GIANTKILR's picture

I bought mine a while back. I wish I had bought more. It's just common sense that metals are going to keep going up. It's the only true wealth. Paper is paper and they have printed a ton of it.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 07:54 | 1171760 GIANTKILR
GIANTKILR's picture

I bought mine a while back. I wish I had bought more. It's just common sense that metals are going to keep going up. It's the only true wealth. Paper is paper and they have printed a ton of it.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 07:54 | 1171761 GIANTKILR
GIANTKILR's picture

I bought mine a while back. I wish I had bought more. It's just common sense that metals are going to keep going up. It's the only true wealth. Paper is paper and they have printed a ton of it.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 07:54 | 1171762 GIANTKILR
GIANTKILR's picture

I bought mine a while back. I wish I had bought more. It's just common sense that metals are going to keep going up. It's the only true wealth. Paper is paper and they have printed a ton of it.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 07:54 | 1171763 GIANTKILR
GIANTKILR's picture

I bought mine a while back. I wish I had bought more. It's just common sense that metals are going to keep going up. It's the only true wealth. Paper is paper and they have printed a ton of it.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 07:54 | 1171764 GIANTKILR
GIANTKILR's picture

I bought mine a while back. I wish I had bought more. It's just common sense that metals are going to keep going up. It's the only true wealth. Paper is paper and they have printed a ton of it.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 07:57 | 1171765 GIANTKILR
GIANTKILR's picture

I bought mine a while back. I wish I had bought more. It's just common sense that metals are going to keep going up. It's the only true wealth. Paper is paper and they have printed a ton of it.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 11:03 | 1172470 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

clean up on aisle 12

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 07:59 | 1171767 GIANTKILR
GIANTKILR's picture

Damn captcha! I know I didn't hit the button that many times. 

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:09 | 1171787 iota
iota's picture

On the upside you just took the world record for dupes :)

Moynihan has been busy lining up interviews today like a cheap quarter ounce on party night "BofA is doing well, everythings picking up, you can start putting your savings back in the bank now". Hmmm...

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:20 | 1171802 Idiot Savant
Idiot Savant's picture

On the upside you just took the world record for junks..

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:26 | 1171812 fuu
fuu's picture

Not even close.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:41 | 1171852 mrgneiss
mrgneiss's picture

Actually, for a single albeit repeated post it is a record.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 09:06 | 1171971 GIANTKILR
GIANTKILR's picture


Fri, 04/15/2011 - 07:56 | 1171768 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

I guess the nice thing about this is at least the age of.socialism is just about over.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 12:48 | 1172944 prole
prole's picture

The age of Socialism has only just begun. "If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot, stamping on a human face, forever."

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:00 | 1171769 Ancona
Ancona's picture

I smell a %20 margin hike.

Blythe is on the Bat Phone as I type this.......

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 10:52 | 1172407 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

So?  The last X number of hikes worked so well.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 07:58 | 1171770 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Higher lows and higher highs. Such is the direction. Silver has new wind under it's wings by the Indian Public waking up from their golden slumber. As it has traditionally moved the gold market, watch it jack the tiny by comparison silver market.

And looooots of black money in India, struggling to find land (all cornered by land mafia) is going to rush (for th eshort term) and stay because it has a long way to climb.

Sure a correction or three here or there, but overall, I'd still say switch from Au to Ag, the ratio is going to drop a lot more in the coming months.


Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:09 | 1171789 s0lspot
s0lspot's picture

Damned shamanic Indian guy, you just read my mind didn't you !!! :-)





Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:14 | 1171796 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Heh! Was grinning as I read your post. ;-)

Happy in-vesting.


Fri, 04/15/2011 - 15:25 | 1173639 FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

amen!  peace to those who have awakened.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:03 | 1171777 s0lspot
s0lspot's picture

About to invest 2000 yipeeees more, as of today how would you guys split it up between physical Au and Ag? Gold seems expensive, jesus kryst at 190€ each swiss/french 20 francs coin, thats almost a 1000 euros for 5 measly coins... ;-)

Ideally in the future i'd like to wait for the silv/gld ratio to come down and then exchange my bulky silver for relatively cheap & lightweight gold...But things are so fucked up you never know what JPM and the B. might do to prevent the ratio from goind down...


Anyhow how are you guys buying these days ; mainly gold, silver? Silver clearly is investment with added risk and potential greater added value when gold is just, well, gold you know, the oldest form of savings known to man.


I'd love to have your feedback as i'm really hesitating between 50/50 or going all in 80slv/20gld...

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:54 | 1171906 SirIssacNewton
SirIssacNewton's picture

I would invest in silver because you have a greater opportunity for a high % return in the near term....meaning silver will continue to out pace gold based upon your entry point today.  When the GSR gets lower, then look to exchange.  Of course, do your own due diligence.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:54 | 1171909 SirIssacNewton
SirIssacNewton's picture

I would invest in silver because you have a greater opportunity for a higher % return in the near term....meaning silver will continue to out pace gold based upon your entry point today.  When the GSR gets lower, then look to exchange.  Of course, do your own due diligence.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:09 | 1171784 johny2
johny2's picture

My precious!

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:11 | 1171788 earnulf
earnulf's picture

Since january, the spot price of silver has gone from 30.67 to 42.00 in a little over three months.

Know of any other investments that have returned 36% in three months?

Or is it that the purchasing power of the dollar has fallen another 36%, LOL

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:53 | 1171896 SirIssacNewton
SirIssacNewton's picture

Unfortunately, we both know the answer to that one..... the dollar has fallen.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 15:30 | 1173650 FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

yes earnulf, the dollar is what has fallen.  silver is what is it just as gold is.  check mike maloney's charts on judging real value of pm's.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:23 | 1171807 ivars
ivars's picture

Finnish politics rarely drive international financial markets, but the rise of the anti-bailout True Finns party means Sunday’s national elections can’t be ignored by investors wary of another adverse turn in the euro zone’s long-running debt crisis.

The True Finns are backed by nearly 17% of the electorate, according to a TNS Gallup poll conducted between April 5 and 10. The True Finns received just 4.1% of the vote in 2007.

And since Finland is the only euro-zone country that requires bailouts to be approved by parliament, strong gains by the True Finns could derail a planned rescue for Portugal

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:25 | 1171808 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

PM's will drop for good when:
pols regulators and banksters are in jail

Fed is closed down

FRN's are defunct and we get PM backed Treasury Notes

Fed stops printing inflation,Pols stop deficit spending.

see any of the above happening??



Fri, 04/15/2011 - 15:29 | 1173654 FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

good point!  you also move up a rank!

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:27 | 1171814 fuu
fuu's picture

Silver Bitches!

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:30 | 1171822 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Gold and silver still being led around by the nose, according to which way the ES futures and foreign currencies trade.

Any hard break in ES will lead to "panic chain-selling" in GLD and SLV.

Wonder when relationship breaks for good??

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:58 | 1171922 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Robo, more posts?  Fewer babes?  Less humor?

I think Robo is losing his mojo.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 09:43 | 1172101 fuu
fuu's picture

The posting style has certainly changed. Must be a new clown running the commenting VM.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 13:03 | 1172984 DiverCity
DiverCity's picture

PMs need people like Roboboy.  While I disagree with him, he and others like him are very useful idiots.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 09:05 | 1171954 lieutenantjohnchard
lieutenantjohnchard's picture

but of course stocks are not being goosed by the futures.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 09:26 | 1172036 Infinite QE
Infinite QE's picture

Garbage in, garbage out. Time for a Big Mac?

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:33 | 1171838 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

These are tell signs and contrarian signals that gold and silver are far from the bubbles that some have been claiming for some time.......

oh my, so math punk and spaulding spammer have been wrong all along....oh no.......

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 10:55 | 1172418 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Funny how some pundits who tout gold/silver as bubbles don't see the same scenario in stocks.   Blinded by the light...

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:41 | 1171857 johnnymustardseed
johnnymustardseed's picture

Haha Robot Trader... You can't change this with your BS. You missed the silver train, so sorry for you

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:50 | 1171891 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

yeh a lot of the crybabies around here, are those who refused to listen to people like HPD, telling them , voices crying in the wilderness, the precious metals bull is picking up steam, (back in the early 2000's ) but no, they would not listen. so now they see what has happened and they realize as tmosley says, they have missed the trade of a lifetime, so they get on here and carp about metals. well too bad.....that is all i can say about it. you didn't get in when the time was right so now you sit in the sidelines and watch as so many do. i am glad i listened to a old man from missouri who told me about silver and told me about franklin sanders, etc......i knew this government would not correct its spending ways.  i knew nothing would get better. i knew they would continue doing what it is they are doing. they have not disappointed me. they continue on destroying this nation. to them , i say continue on doing your thing. it matters not to me. this nation is finished. too many are lazy and do not want to act when the time is absolutely necessary now. so be it. i accept it. preparation for the times ahead continue in this household and as robby noel used to say, before he moved back to south africa, ladies and gentlemen we are now in unchartered territory. to that, i say, i am ready. just bring it.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 15:47 | 1178363 suckerfishzilla
suckerfishzilla's picture

I assert that the people who did not take heed to bloggers such as t mosley still have the opportunity to garner at least 1000% more in appreciation if they invest in Silver before it reaches $50/oz.  We have over 300 years of price manipulation to unwind.  That is going to take awhile. 

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 08:50 | 1171882 Josh Randall
Josh Randall's picture

When Silver catches the JP Morgue's stock price it will get down to the real nitty gritty. Morgue can't win - maybe they could if this was an isolated incident, but when you look at all the other macro Dead Weight they need to absorb:  Fraudclosure real estate mess, muni bonds going to hell, EU deafults on the way, Congressional insight committees (from multiple countries) and legal action being sought by hundreds of people on various fronts,  they will find it easier to hit the eject button and use those golden parachutes.

Mark my words they do not want a straight-up fight with the SLA, they are pissing their perverbial pants right now. Time to get those resumes ready boys y girls at the Morgue

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 15:37 | 1173691 FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

agreed josh.  just look at eBay.  ase's are $50.  so we see the "free market" separation already.  dealers are setting their own prices and getting it too.  i can hardly wait for silver to exceed jp morgue's stock. 

oh booo f-n hooo morgue, prepare your casket!

silver bitchez!  funny how 6 ase's in your pocket equals $300 fiat!  true wealth of real money is very deflationary at this point.  a silver dime is over $3 fiat.  you can buy a loaf of bread for under a dime.

depression for sheeple, deflation for the holders of real wealth!

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 09:04 | 1171963 The Apprentice
The Apprentice's picture

Ive just finished watching "Inside Job".

Forget the Jaws line "we need a bigger boat"

It should be in this instance " we need a bigger trough".

The whole system is rotten to the core.

Will the people who are engineering the collapse of the dollar , face legal action ?

Will they shit !

I  fear for the future



Fri, 04/15/2011 - 09:10 | 1171984 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

yes the whole system is rotten to the core. so we have talk about politics around here from time to time. what difference does it all make?  why even vote? it doesn't matter. the system is broken and cannot be fixed. so , all of those who know what is really going on, have no power to affect any change. we are too few, so we wait and hope that many more will wake up before it is too late. but alas i fear, that this will not happen. it is written.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 09:13 | 1171986 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture


Sign-up and hammer this idiot with facts!!!

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 09:58 | 1172162 AmazingLarry
AmazingLarry's picture

I replied. Fuckin shenanigans. 

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 11:28 | 1172557 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

His link to the Chinese "investment demand" story had nothing to do with silver whatsoever.

[Oooh, a link, must be relevant, but I don't have time to go to the link to read it -- I'll just assume that it bolsters the thesis of the article...]  

What's up with this guy?   Writes like a paid shill.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 09:24 | 1172026 Client 9
Client 9's picture

Prime rental- my strategy has only worked for 40 years and explains probably 1/4 of the US wealth base.  But ya, I guess you're right.  Keep buying your bloated shiny nuggets and specu-specting them to feed your family.  Since the barriers to entry are so high I'm sure you are on to something.  There is so much work involved in finding a good deal. 


Fri, 04/15/2011 - 09:22 | 1172029 vas deferens
vas deferens's picture

WTF are all these stories and Youtube videos on how to buy gold and silver? How stupid are people? This is help for all the stupid people.

1)Know spot price (the spot price is the mkt price for one troy ounce of gold or silver)

2)Know the price you are paying per troy oz.

3)Make sure the metal is marked .999 (double check weight with scale if needed).

4)Give person toilet paper with George washingtons face on it.

5)Take your metal.

6)Repeat when you have more toilet paper.


Next lesson will be how to buy a gallon of milk.




Fri, 04/15/2011 - 15:42 | 1173717 FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

nice vas.  been sayin for two years now, real wealth is quite deflationary right now.  the fiat reference "value" has less and less meaning.....

i am with you, every time those damn plague frn's get near me i convert them.

paper burns.  'nuff sed!

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 09:48 | 1172124 AmazingLarry
AmazingLarry's picture

I BTFD. A roll of Maples on my JP Morgue/Chase CC. How man FUBM points is this worth, again?



Fri, 04/15/2011 - 10:05 | 1172187 savagegoose
savagegoose's picture

lol i remeber geting the days silver price on tv news along with gold and oil. now silver is no longer listed.

when silver price is back on tv news ill think itsa timne to look for a bubble , not until then.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 10:04 | 1172191 DrStrangelove
DrStrangelove's picture

long doom, with stops at pretty fucked

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 10:26 | 1172265 Bastiat
Fri, 04/15/2011 - 10:28 | 1172296 Jim B
Jim B's picture

I wouldn't be surprised to see a silver correction, but then again, it is the poor mans gold!  I own gold stocks, but silver is the only physical I own.  I think silver is more practical if this ponzi scheme collapses! 

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 15:47 | 1173732 FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

agreed jim - "sweat not the corrections for they are as a fart is to the wind."

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 10:41 | 1172359 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Jim, it was over for the silver short when China opened the retail market to silver bullion purchases--let alone India lighting it up.  US retail partcipation isn't even needed.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 10:50 | 1172391 Bahamas
Bahamas's picture

I watched Inside Job also. One thing caught my attention in a peculiar way. All the crooks involved in this gigantic scam happen to be of the same race. I mean: connect the dots fellows. All these crooks; all of the same bloodline: they're all Scandinavian!!! right?

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 11:24 | 1172533 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

Human Greed can kill the world...

"Hell" was invented to forestall the inevitable....

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 14:26 | 1173400 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Let's see let's see.

Craptactular flockbuster hollywood movie. 30 dollars.

Stupid fucking game. 60 dollars.

Expensive clothes made with thread engineered to desinegrate in 2 months. 30 dollars.

Silver. Who fucking cares about the price. Have you seen it's competition.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 15:48 | 1173737 FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

well put and agreed!

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 15:37 | 1178348 suckerfishzilla
suckerfishzilla's picture

I've been picking up Mr. T-sized sterling chains as of late for melt value.  If you can get the same deal in your area I would recommend getting a few big sterling chains because some people prefer to wear their investment rather than keeping it in a steel box somewhere.  Really.  In the 1990's Silver was cheap but heavy gauge sterling chains were being sold at 1000% mark-up and higher.  Now I have been scooping up some of the huge ones for spot. 

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