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Gold Closes At All Time High Of $1,435 As Stocks Break 7 Month "First Day Up" Winning Streak

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Even as gold closed at all time highs, and silver surged to a fresh 31 year closing high, the most important observation is that the market snapped the critical 7 month winning streak of major surges on the first day of the month (we will provide an update on this shortly). This means that all lemming momentum chasers are now blind deaf and mute, with no orientation in a suddenly very unfriendly stock market. In the meantime, all those who continue to believe that with oil over $100 the biggest winners will be gold and silver, are, for the time being correct. The attached charts confirm it.

Gold:

Silver:

And here is what the volume of the "stock market" looks like on up and down days. Note the correlation:

 

 

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Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:14 | 1008838 Judge Judy Scheinlok
Judge Judy Scheinlok's picture

Sweet!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:20 | 1008873 TeMpTeK
TeMpTeK's picture

Does QE3 come before or after "Un-wealth effect"?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 19:20 | 1009328 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Jim Rickards pointed out that the Fed did not say that they would conclude QE3 after 6 months. I believe that if they continue a QE spending spree that it will be done without the fanfare of an announcement... iows, the Fed/Treasury will continue doing what they are currently doing... Until the damned mess blows sky high.

I have my Junior Mugambo Decoder Ring (JMDR) and a pass to the Extremely Well Stocked Mugambo Bunker (EWSMB).

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 21:56 | 1009814 Fearless Rick
Fearless Rick's picture

If you're trying to look cool because you read Richard Daughty, MASSIVE FAIL for spelling Mogambo wrong, dork.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:23 | 1008891 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

Nice ramp up.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 21:33 | 1009751 DocLogo
DocLogo's picture

winning

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:15 | 1008840 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Silver $36 by the end of the week :-)

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:23 | 1008898 Chuck Norris
Chuck Norris's picture

How soon to infinity? 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:42 | 1009005 Cash_is_Trash
Cash_is_Trash's picture

Sprott says $50 by april. It's gotta climb 45% to reach his mark.

Nominal Gainzzz

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:16 | 1008844 Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

I would certainly encourage you to read this. Crude is about to surge higher, too.

http://tfmetalsreport.blogspot.com/2011/03/having-good-day.html

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:17 | 1008868 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

Thank you... I have been long and hard Gold for years.

Your internet blog is a daily read for me.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:20 | 1009143 Mr Poopra
Mr Poopra's picture

Agreed!  Turd is literally the shit.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:46 | 1009238 falak pema
falak pema's picture

you make gold sound like a sexy woman. Can't f*** it you know.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:16 | 1008846 JonNadler
JonNadler's picture

but William the Bastard said this COULD NOT happen

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 19:15 | 1009316 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Patience grasshopper -- all comes to she who waits (including death).

The market can be irrational longer than you and Bill can remain solvent.  In the meantime, I'm going with the flow.  

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:16 | 1008847 hambone
hambone's picture

These are the first shots of the revolution...the economic revolution against the Fed, the banks, the elite. 

We don't want your paper anymore.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:16 | 1008848 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

Time for me to get high!

Have you ever seen ZH... On, weed?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1rdlkF5udM

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:20 | 1009144 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

that's one of the benefits od living in california: medical weeeeeeeed!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:17 | 1008851 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Crack up and Boom!

The black swan will be flying with the Stop button on the music. eye your chair/lair now.

ORI

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/on-outsourcing-and-its-ills/

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:16 | 1008853 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

The worm has turned.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:16 | 1008856 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

head line should read " dollar buys less then ever in history"

problem with being a pm bug is when do you sell? if it ever goes mad max, and it looks like it is damn near here, i sure as shit wont take fiat or gold for my laying hens or potato stash.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:26 | 1008917 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

You dont sell it, you trade it for something you need more at the time.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:07 | 1009111 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

Need... i need a fair government and the death of the crooked banksters but i dont have nuff PM's to trade.. obviously.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 22:23 | 1009912 Fearless Rick
Fearless Rick's picture

If you really understand the economics of trade, you never sell gold or silver, but only use it as collateral when needed, then withdraw it when it has done it's work.

I sold some silver coins ONCE, and will never make that mistake again.

That's the whole point of gold and silver, it's better than money. It's wealth.

Think of it like your house. You wouldn't sell your house to buy basic goods, but you might take out a loan against it to purchase a new car at a low, low rate.

Same applies with gold and silver. Go to a bank with any sizable amount of gold/silver and tell them you'd like to use it as collateral which they can hold in their vaults. Then watch the heads spin. Your banker may or may not be able to perform such functions, depending on policy and expertise.

But again, you should never sell your gold and silver unless you're just a speculator, in which case, I will buy the next time you sell.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:17 | 1008858 Math Man
Math Man's picture

Last chance to get out before the collapse of the PM complex.

The end result of the mideast trumoil is actually going to be very bullish... stabalization of the region and a removal of the uncertainty premium that has been baked in to oil prices for years.

 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:18 | 1008870 drink or die
drink or die's picture

Yeah, Egypt is so stable now.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:18 | 1008872 JonNadler
JonNadler's picture

but but you said 4 silver dollars ago....

 

Methman, you were ordered to create a new  screen name since Methman is burned up.

Tomorrow at 3PM is the deadline. Jamie's orders!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:23 | 1008893 Harmonious_Diss...
Harmonious_Dissonance's picture

You forgot to say it only costs $5 to dig it out the dirt.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:30 | 1008931 ForWhomTheTollBuilds
ForWhomTheTollBuilds's picture

I'm gonna go dig some up now.  Why isn't everyone?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:04 | 1009101 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

I got $15, and am lazy. Can I pay you to dig some up for me?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:25 | 1008902 lieutenantjohnchard
lieutenantjohnchard's picture

math man, math man, math man. you're really slacking? you call this a provocative post? come on man. throw out something really good like for example: "the gov't is gonna send homeland security provocateurs to our homes to confiscate our gold and silver."

see hamy wanger for how it's done. you're getting lame.

btw: how much do you add to the pot per zh post response in your competition with hamy to see who can get the most responses, or junks? a quarter? fifty cents? just curious.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:33 | 1008943 ForWhomTheTollBuilds
ForWhomTheTollBuilds's picture

That was how Johnny Bravo turned towards the end when it finally began to dawn on him that he had bet his credibility on the wrong horse.

 

His tone was almost hysterical as he laughed about how the govt would just take our gold away from us anyway.

 

Remember that, Math Man?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:39 | 1008976 akak
akak's picture

I just want MethMan to tell us how many trums one must squeeze to yield one ounce of trumoil.  Not to mention just what "trumoil" is, or is used for.

My guess is that it is what trolls use to lubricate and cool their red-hot keyboards.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:49 | 1009042 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

You can't even drink trumoil... and it only costs a few bucks to make.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:25 | 1008903 Harmonious_Diss...
Harmonious_Dissonance's picture

GenOn Energy Inc. (GEN), one of the U.S.' largest independent power producers, reported that its fourth-quarter loss quadrupled on one-time charges, including from the recent merger creating the company, and weaker power prices.

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20110301-709102.html

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:27 | 1008916 Math Man
Math Man's picture

And was up 4% today in a down tape.

You left out that part.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:31 | 1008934 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

Nice car, is it a lease?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:33 | 1008947 Harmonious_Diss...
Harmonious_Dissonance's picture

No, he owns it. He is a serious investor.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:08 | 1009086 akak
akak's picture

Actually, MethMan is not an investor at all, but he DID stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

Rumor also has it that his bed sheets were found heavily soiled after a number of unnamed men from the Federal Reserve paid him sequential visits throughout the night.  Several of them were turned away with anger, however, as he was heard shouting by several guests "I'm calling for a silver top, a TOP, do you hear!"

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:24 | 1009157 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

and he also saved 15% on his car insurance with geico.
he's a shrewd man.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:26 | 1009164 Harmonious_Diss...
Harmonious_Dissonance's picture

lol! nice

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:32 | 1008944 Harmonious_Diss...
Harmonious_Dissonance's picture

lt will be .50 by june. 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:36 | 1008970 Math Man
Math Man's picture

Fat chance.  It's worth $10-20.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:43 | 1009011 Harmonious_Diss...
Harmonious_Dissonance's picture

Mirant's initial public offering brought $1 billion in one day. Mirant's demise began publicly in late 2001.

 

LOL! Too bad Enron isn't still around, right?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:50 | 1009047 Harmonious_Diss...
Harmonious_Dissonance's picture

Hey! Look tehy are hiring accountants! Repo 105 experience required!

 

http://www.jobfox.com/Web/Seeker/Landing/AppJobDetails.aspx?AppJobId=0df...

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:10 | 1009122 Math Man
Math Man's picture

What would you rather own?  Power plants or some silver?

Power plants generate electricity.  Silver generates rumors and conspiracy theories.

 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:21 | 1009147 Harmonious_Diss...
Harmonious_Dissonance's picture

No new power plants for you without my silver! LOL.Too bad you need resources to build power plants, but only some accounting gimicks to reach "profitability".

Old as hell coal power plants will only last so much longer, 

Utilities may close up to 1 in 5 coal-fired power plants after tougher EPA air pollution rules go into effect this year, Wall Street investment banker Credit Suisse recently reported. Coal power is losing its price edge to natural gas, too.

Even with your Repo 105, GEN to .75 in 3 months.

Cheers!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:26 | 1009172 Math Man
Math Man's picture

Good luck w/ that theory.  Declining reserve margins and half the US electricty being generated by coal means we can't close plants with out pushing up spark spreads.

That is bullish for GEN.  They've already spent over a billion scrubbing their coal plants, so their margins will increase while others close plants.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:40 | 1009217 Harmonious_Diss...
Harmonious_Dissonance's picture

Yup BILLIONS, and so guess what: Their generators do not produce profitable energy. Recent signs of economic recovery have not resulted in a commensurate recovery in power markets.

 

GEN to .50 by the end of March.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:57 | 1009266 Math Man
Math Man's picture

Wrong again.  Look at recent capacity payment auctions.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 19:10 | 1009300 Harmonious_Diss...
Harmonious_Dissonance's picture

Your a hack & perhaps an accountant by trade?? In the United States, capacity markets have been touted as an essential ingredient to a successful wholesale electricity market. The wholesale markets for electricity in other places are generally regarded as better performing. The superior performance of those markets isn't a surprise. Capacity markets considerably complicate the task of providing the appropriate signals for the new investment needed to meet current & future demand. In particular, capacity payments encourage over-investment. Capacity markets are also extremely susceptible to the exercise of unilateral market power, this really implies that regulatory intervention is often needed to set the price paid for capacity. The major reason to still have capacity markets in the US seems to be a relic from the vertically integrated regime ago when capacity payments compensated generation units for their capital costs.

 

Barbarous Relic, I say!!!

GEN to .25 tomorrow.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:55 | 1009264 Harmonious_Diss...
Harmonious_Dissonance's picture

Good luck with this theory:

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9NDE1ODk5fENoa...

 

GEN to .25 in two weeks.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 20:16 | 1009511 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!  Sign me up for the Ag!  Hell I'll even be a sport and take 1/2 value in terms of the plant.  Owning a power plant in this environment is a HUGE liability.  You've got to feed those things and price controls are around the corner.  Meanwhile, Ag is iching to bust it's all time highs on increased demand and lack of supply.

You can buy all the equities you want - I'll stick with shorting the fed via PMs and trading up to farmland when the time is right.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:46 | 1009236 tmosley
tmosley's picture

If it's not, will you stream a video of you disemboweling yourself?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:47 | 1009242 baby_BLYTHE
Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:25 | 1008911 r101958
r101958's picture

Right. Yeah, let's all sell our PMs before the printing presses go into hyperdrive. Sure, good call. The ME will be 'stabilized' .....Riiigghht. Then we can remove the 'uncertainty premium' ...yaaah.....is that before or after they find reality ....that Ghawar has peaked already and is on the decline (a fairly steep one too). Absolutely, a great plan!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:16 | 1009131 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

Right. Yeah, let's all sell our PMs before the printing presses go into hyperdrive.

 

 

 

WAAAYYYYY TOOO L888888

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:28 | 1008923 redpill
redpill's picture

You're stoned.  This is going to mean utter chaos in the ME for the forseeable future.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:32 | 1008940 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

Math man is like death and taxes - never changes.........

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:33 | 1008945 sabra1
sabra1's picture

day of rage in saudi arabia is on march 11th. muslim brotherhood will make a claim to retake jerusalem. this will be the turning point of when hell breaks loose!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:36 | 1008968 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 19:05 | 1009285 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Is that a top you are calling?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:33 | 1008948 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

You will never see the day that PMs are worth nothing. Fiat on the other hand?.. Methhead u r an idiot.. if anything trade some PM for good bottom farm land with water!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:35 | 1008951 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

I like a good contrarian opinion.

If this ME stuff resolves itself fairly quickly and oil spigots run wide open for a while we could see oil back down in the high sixties low seventies. GDP ramps up. Treasuries continue a slow decline. All of a sudden gold has some competition if real rates start looking healthy again. This could all happen with 8.5 percent unemployment.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:35 | 1009200 oddjob
oddjob's picture

You were wrong on PM's many times before and still are.Give it up.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 19:29 | 1009362 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I like a good contrarian opinion.

So do I.   Show me one when you see it.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 20:59 | 1009643 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Did you just wake up today and not know that gold and silver have been in a secular bull market for 10 years regardless of exogenous events?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:36 | 1008956 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Remember it was triggered by inflation in food prices -- not gone away

Now made worse by higher oil prices which will flow throw economy.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:39 | 1008988 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

always remember higher prices means dollar worth less. It is not because something has become more valuable, it is the death of fiat only.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:26 | 1009167 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

That's true to an extent but not the whole answer.  

The entire planet of 7 billion people needs sound money to use as it's medium of exchange, store of value, etc.   There is much less in terms of PM amounts / per capita than previously.   Ergo the value of it will rise as fiat collapses and people resort to real monies.

Modern currency

  • 95% electronic (literally a collection of electrons)
  • 5% paper money
  • no backing whatsoever.

Gold, silver and copper can be monetized back into circulation to replace what vaporizes.

 

  

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:55 | 1009065 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Nobody could be as fucking stupid as you get-off pretending to be. 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:18 | 1009136 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

Now that was not very nice..

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 19:30 | 1009369 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Truth trumps courtesy.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 20:27 | 1009543 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Hey, I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:56 | 1009071 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

MathMan, you make those of us with PhDs in math just plain sick. You shouldn't have the right to soil a perfectly good subject like mathematics.

By the way, Austrian economics kicks math's ass every day. I know how to do all the stochastic calculus, but it turns out that the Austrians have a better claim on the truth every frickin' time.

Go find another name...like Underwater basketweaving man. Or English homosexual literature man or something. We don't want you in our parts. 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:49 | 1009249 falak pema
falak pema's picture

you don't get many votes. What type of maths do you apply to your crystal ball?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 22:28 | 1009924 Fearless Rick
Fearless Rick's picture

I think Math Man - the uncontested champion of "contrarian indicator" - has set a new record with 44 junks. Quite impressive, really, for a guy with a finger stuck permanently up his backside.

Math Man, if you are ever up in my neck of the woods, please don't stay long. I like my neighborhood.

Wed, 03/02/2011 - 03:07 | 1010435 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

ROTFLMAO!  Typical Progressive thought process -- once the buses stop running, we'll all hop on board the high-speed rails and "Win The Future!"  Man, do I looove Big Brother!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:25 | 1008864 Larry Darrell
Larry Darrell's picture

I mentioned on an earlier thread that the streak would be broken today because Genocide Ben was speaking.

Look for another down day tomorrow, even if not as pronounced, as he continues to make the markets nervous.

 

On the gold / silver front, the elite must be shitting themselves to see these rises even though USDX moved back up above 77.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:53 | 1009043 akak
akak's picture

Aside from being a limited tool of currency daytraders, that artificial and ridiculous "Dollar Index" does not mean shit.  Trying to use it as any kind of measure of the REAL value of the US dollar would be analogous to trying to build a house with a tape measure that is constantly shrinking.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:24 | 1009154 DoctoRx
DoctoRx's picture

TWEXB

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:49 | 1009246 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I like to compare it to an altimeter that measures the distance to the floor of the airplane.

Wed, 03/02/2011 - 03:09 | 1010437 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Rubber rulers are all the rage at the BLS, they can stretch to any number you need to "inform" the Ignorati! :>D

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:17 | 1008866 BrianOFlanagan
BrianOFlanagan's picture

if only a tiny fraction of capital rotated out of equities and into gold and silver, we will likely see a major spike.  A few more days like this is all we need.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:22 | 1008888 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

to do what? sell PMs for fiat? r u stupid or something. cant call it taking a profit as the fiat has fallen against staples. sell for a few dollar gains and watch the price of food wipe out your gains.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:51 | 1009256 tmosley
tmosley's picture

PMs go up against fiat, but other prices remain about the same, or go up to a much lesser degree.

If you were an ant buying real estate on a balloon, where you paid by the square inch, would you buy before or after they put the air in?  Buying silver now is like buying as they put the air into the balloon.  Sell when it is inflated to your satisfaction and purchase productive assets.  You never want to hold a non-productive asset forever, only until it reaches an approximation of full appreciation.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:23 | 1008896 hambone
hambone's picture

Wait and see how this goes over in Asia tonight - think parabolic.  By the time we get our next shot at gold, oil, silver, it's gonna be a lot more interesting view from the new heights.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:27 | 1008918 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Ummmm......a few more days like this is all we need.......for what?

For the rotation into Gold and Silver to begin or the spike to occur....presumably because the Gold and Silver rotation has already happened?

From where I sit, the rotation must happen before or during the spike.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:25 | 1009162 DoctoRx
DoctoRx's picture

Price makers being separated from price takers.  As in the 1970s.  

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:22 | 1008885 Horatio Beanblower
Horatio Beanblower's picture

 

Naughty, naughty, very, very naughty... "HSBC has been forced to stop repossessing homes of defaulting borrowers in the US after regulators identified deficiencies in the lender's processes." - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/8355502/HSBC-halts-US-repossessions-after-deficiencies-identified.html

 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:25 | 1008908 metastar
metastar's picture

PSLV on fire today!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:45 | 1009022 Cash_is_Trash
Cash_is_Trash's picture

Oh yeah! Above 4%.

It's a better holding than SLV because it hits higher highs and better % gains on the day.

Plus, we've all seen Sprott and he's the shit.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:31 | 1008932 nathandegraaf
nathandegraaf's picture

Or... they just switched the day?

They have more QE left and you know they have more QE coming.  They now have war and oil to justify more.  They'll get other justifications.  In the long con, you constantly have to reevaluate your strategy or you get found out. 

 

 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:34 | 1008952 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

It's not hard to imagine. You only have to recall Gaddafi's insane ramblings from the other day to see where dictators usually end up. Uncle Ben is a dictator.. you can only spin lies and disinformation for so long before you get confused and become a true believer.

We'll find him eventually holed up in his home, holding a Fed meeting with the dog.

Wed, 03/02/2011 - 03:16 | 1010447 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Ya know, it's okay to talk to yourself sometimes...it's even okay to answer back, but when you say "Huh?", then you've got a serious problem! :>D

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:32 | 1008936 hambone
hambone's picture

Just so we are all on the same page - we all know that this little commodity break out can't be allowed...so, next manipulation should be coming in 3,2,1...

BTW- what exactly should we be looking for?  Deflationary Fed pulls the rug and dries up liquidity?  Inflationary administration kicks off new war?  Thoughts?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:35 | 1008960 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

when in doubt always go to WAR

Wed, 03/02/2011 - 03:17 | 1010449 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Well, it's ALWAYS worked before...

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:33 | 1008939 Fredd00
Fredd00's picture

Well, 'buy the dip' crowd may feel uncertain. BTW looks like Blythe minions shorted SPX by mistake.

I have a feeling SLV just moved too fast too high, the ball is now on Blythe side

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:32 | 1008941 Misean
Misean's picture

It's a good thing Benny's helicopters don't run on gold...

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:36 | 1008964 The Count
The Count's picture

Whoever missed the entire silver move...I will sell you a common date BU Morgan silver dollar for only $100. PM me if interesed :-)

 

 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:01 | 1009091 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

I'll offer a roll for a better deal...$1800 for 20 of those pretty coins (and then go buy myself three more rolls!)

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:38 | 1008975 gwar5
gwar5's picture

I feels like we've seen Peak DOW.

Not sure if QE 3 will continue to support higher market.

It's still based in USD and it's losing safe haven status.

We'll see.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:42 | 1009007 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

When they run into a brick wall, they just change the rules.

 

The markets will no longer report numbers. The DOW, Nasdaq and S&P will now be represented by color coded emoticons.. all of which are green.

Wed, 03/02/2011 - 03:22 | 1010453 StychoKiller
Tue, 03/01/2011 - 20:44 | 1009599 RmcAZ
RmcAZ's picture

There is more DOW to be found... all we need to do is dig more CAT out of the ground. CAT stocks are rumored to be deep in the earth all over Canada, Alaska, and elsewhere.

Wed, 03/02/2011 - 03:24 | 1010454 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Next Fall, I'm going to the local orchard and pick my own AAPLs! :>D

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:38 | 1008983 The Count
The Count's picture

 

I have been trying to find this out for a long time: 

Who exactly is behind HSBC? Not just the board, who are the major shareholders. Usual European investment bank dynasties...?

 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:39 | 1008984 Horatio Beanblower
Horatio Beanblower's picture

"Silver in two different markets" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR28o5f9aKE&feature=feedu

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 21:30 | 1009743 Reckoner
Reckoner's picture

Brilliant.

Wed, 03/02/2011 - 10:29 | 1010979 The Count
The Count's picture

interesting!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:40 | 1008998 OddFieldIsStrong
OddFieldIsStrong's picture


I like PM, but I have not yet bought into PM due to concerns re confiscation. I would appreciate if the wise people here can share their thoughts on the matter. I posted this question in another thread (way down in the comment thread). I received two replies, but thought I should repost this to get a wider set of opinions. 

If the NWO is indeed creating a currency, no matter if the new currency is PM-backed or not, they cannot allow for competition from an alternative currency (i.e. PM). They will need to exercise restrictions to ensure their new currency takes hold. This means they will at the very least enact restrictions on using PM as a medium of day-to-day trade, or worse, confiscation.

I see PM control as a very real risk. What are your thoughts on the likelihood, the impact of the price/value of PM should control is put in place and ways to avoid that fate? 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:44 | 1009019 Misean
Misean's picture

Hold paper and have it inflated away... By the way, Mssr. Frog, how is the water today?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:51 | 1009049 OddFieldIsStrong
OddFieldIsStrong's picture

Misean, I am looking for a considered conversation. Such glib comment is not really adding much value.

As a background, I am not based in US/Europe. Our fiat currency could very well inflate away too (especially w.r.t crude), but it has steadily gained strength over USD/EUR. That said, I absolutely don't trust fiats (including our fiats), and needless to say well divesified/hedged. 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:59 | 1009083 Misean
Misean's picture

Glib, or short and sweet. At this time, you either have chips on the table or you leave the casino. There is NO rational capital allocation at any level above the local you know, and that in itself is horribly risky. The massive gushers of hot money sloshing around the globe are far too distortive for some kind of rational broad trend analysis.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:12 | 1009126 OddFieldIsStrong
OddFieldIsStrong's picture

the massive gushers of hot money sloshing around the globe are far too distortive 

 

On this point I totally agree. I agree it is time to move away completely from fiats. However there are choices other than PM, including arable land and other commodities.

PM has many substantial advantages, including the perception by many to be an alternative(or original) form of money. As I said, I love PM from a theoratical POV, but my only concern is widespread restrictions and confiscations (in other countries even) that would ultimately cause PM to lose most of their advantages (recognized medium of exchange, liquidity etc). Under such a scenario, PM would probably lose most of its value and price.

This is why I am seeking opinions from the wise people here. I want to know: why you would want to risk restrictions/confiscations of PMs when the alternatives such as land and other commodities are significantly less likely to be confiscated?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:21 | 1009149 akak
akak's picture

Why do you assume that the risk of confiscation is any less than it would be for other assets or commodities?  Real estate, in particular, is a double-edge sword as an inflation hedge --- relatively illiquid, fixed in location, and easily subject to onerous property taxes that can NOT be avoided or evaded.  Gold and silver, in contrast, are easily hidden and/or used on the so-called "black market" (really, just the FREE market), and if you are truly worried about draconian government measures against the ownership of gold and silver, then you will probably have even bigger fish to fry at that point, as you will be living in a totalitarian police state where NO asset will be safe from the greedy clutches of the State.  Gold and silver, in the last resort, could still always be buried or otherwise hidden in anticipation of the day when the police state is no more.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:32 | 1009194 OddFieldIsStrong
OddFieldIsStrong's picture

Why do you assume that the risk of confiscation is any less than it would be for other assets or commodities?

Exactly because PMs are considered as currency. If a government want to establish a new currency, they need to stamp out all other currencies.  The threat of PM as an alternative form of currency to a government's ability to print fiat (or even partially-PM-backed-fiats) is direct. Of course a government may confiscate other assets or commodities, but that's for a different and less threatening reason (i.e. greed). 

Gold and silver, in the last resort, could still always be buried or otherwise hidden in anticipation of the day when the police state is no more.

Valid point. But if the world does decend to a police state, I don't think our generation would live long enough to get out of it.

Wed, 03/02/2011 - 03:28 | 1010458 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

"On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero."

Pass them on to your children -- All things MUST pass, even a world-wide Police state.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:42 | 1009224 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

agreed. and if they ever try to confiscate PMs, if we really do get to that point, the prices of gold and silver will truly skyrocket.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 19:02 | 1009276 hambone
hambone's picture

 

Lead will be the most valuable if confiscation of PM's is undertaken.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:59 | 1009272 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

Restrictions and threat of confiscation do not cause things to lose value, just the opposite usually. Think alcohol during prohibition, and drugs now. If everything is legal and plentiful then the price goes down.

Now you need to think about your own risk tolerance. There are few questions as to where the value of PMs will go if outlawed. The only question imho is, are you a risk taker or not.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:01 | 1009089 redpill
redpill's picture

Try the Perth Mint.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:07 | 1009113 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

OK, longer answer...I'm in the States but am back and forth to Europe a lot.

Here in the States I'm more worried about my paper holdings being confiscated than my physical holdings. I worry that some day the government will say that my retirement account needs to be taken to pay for someone else because our government spent all the money already. I worry that they won't like the fact that I'm long gold and silver miners and oil services companies. They will decide they know better and put me into USTreasuries as my patriotic duty.

However, my physical metals are easily hidden. Just try to find a tube of coins. And in the US we have these shitty gold-colored dollar coins. I've actually taken a couple of those, some euro coins, a gold maple leaf, and an old Austrian ducat through the airport machine. They looked at the mix of coins and didn't even slow down.

Sure the great despots of history have confiscated gold...people like Hitler, Mao, Lenin, FDR...but they have to find it first. And it just so happens that I traded all of mine for that tractor out back, a few chickens, and some work on my farm. Trust me on that. And if you don't trust me, go try to find whatever it is you think is here. Good luck...I used to work in covert areas...

The paper space is so much more valuable to the government than a small physical metals market. And many of us who have PMs also have AR-15s and AK-47s.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:24 | 1009155 OddFieldIsStrong
OddFieldIsStrong's picture

Good point re easy to hide.

However, the governments do not necessarily need to actually confiscate your PMs to destroy the value of PMs. The values of PM appear to be primarily 1) difficulty to counterfeit/print, 2) highly portable, 3) a recognized medium of exchange and 4) liquidity. By simply enacting legislations controlling the movement of PMs and the use of PMs for transaction, enforced by a domestic spying network, they could neutralise many of the above values (2-4). I.e. they don't have to break down your door. They just have to plant more informants among the civilians and build more jails.

I absolutely agree the paper holdings being rubbish btw. However as I said in another comment I am interested to hear why hold PMs, when you can hold other physical commidities/land.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 19:44 | 1009417 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

"However as I said in another comment I am interested to hear why hold PMs, when you can hold other physical commidities/land."

Your questions have been answered. If you don't like the answers it is because you are a troll or lack reading comprehension.

For the third time... real estate is physically fixed and can be taxed way beyond what any normal individual can afford.

"other physical commodities" ... What other physical commodities? Do you have oil storage facilities? Grain silos? warehouses to store base metals or iron ore? Get real.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:56 | 1009262 Escapeclaws
Escapeclaws's picture

Hoofhearted, you seem like an intelligent person, and you would have to be to have a math PhD. So let me ask you, my big worry is that all my future retirement income is in dollars. I'm really concerned about how to hedge against the decline of the dollar. I don't have enough funds to just go out and buy an equivalent amount of gold or silver for the present value ofwhat I'm due in social security or retirement fund returns, which will be paid out over a long period of time. So my strategy has just become, learn how to speculate in the stock market and try to gain as much as possible in as short a time as possible while containing the risk to my investible funds (money management). However, I've recently been thinking that it might make sense to buy leaps in instruments that hedge the dollars collapse. However, I don't know what those instruments are.  Have you looked into this or do you have any ideas? I would imagine that just about every middle class person is in the same boat.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 19:19 | 1009305 hambone
hambone's picture

Dude,

you are going to lose your arse.  Pleazzz don't think there is any ez money anywhere.  Espcially the the rigged casino you are pondering entering full of professional gamblers, shisters, and cheaters.  Especially entering w/ the idea you will make mad money and retire.  This site and the market are littered w/ folks who lost it all chasing it all. 

Take a simple approach - buy PM's, buy energy / miners stock, buy some of the biggest blue chips that will likely live on beyond the big reset, and don't lose what you have in risky affairs (triple short, triple long, whatever).  SS and retirement funds will likely be far less than promised but still something (either through hair cuts or inflation...or very little if hyperinflation takes hold).  Anyway, keep it simple, make some money, don't get greedy, and don't lose what you have. 

Some day interest rates will go back up and people will respect capital once again and give you a fair return for the use of your capital.  Just not today.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 20:15 | 1009505 Escapeclaws
Escapeclaws's picture

Thanks for the thoughtful reply,hb. Basically, I've been following your advice except for buying big blue chips. No leverage for me. Just gold, and mining stocks. But it eats away at me that my biggest assets (retirement funds) are all condemned to be in dollars and I would like to find the best way to hedge those against the inevitable decline of the dollar, that's all. Its no fun watching the termites eat your house as you stand by helplessly because, as you say, the exterminators are ripoff artists. Perhaps the solution is just to go live in Thailand or something.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 20:56 | 1009633 hambone
hambone's picture

 

Really just picking the least worst option and making it work.  Adjusting expectations is also key.

Then again, Phu Khet is always nice...

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:45 | 1009020 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

I don't understand this one world currency narrative. We've had one for about 60 years, and it's on its last legs.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:58 | 1009081 OddFieldIsStrong
OddFieldIsStrong's picture

Ok, forget the "world currency" narrative. Lets substitute with "a new global reserve currency" which would be far more accurate. Whatever the new global reserve currency (which could be  partially-gold-based/CNY/whatever) would be, they would need to suppress other non-official currencies such as PM.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:49 | 1009041 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

My suggestion is to get a couple BFGs and point them @ anyone stupid enough to think they can enter your castle and take you gold.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:02 | 1009097 OddFieldIsStrong
OddFieldIsStrong's picture

If the world/your country does decend to the level of pointing BFGs, why bother with stashing PMs and just stash a truckload of BFGs instead?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 20:04 | 1009481 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

 can only use 2 atta time. might have to take a flame thrower to task as well.. i like flame throwers..

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:52 | 1009053 aaronvelasquez
aaronvelasquez's picture

OddField,

Buy with cash so there is no paper trail.  Then make it disappear into a wall cache. 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:59 | 1009082 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

How long do you think the IMF SDR fiat, or some NWO fiat or ANY OTHER fiat is going to be accepted to start all the pain and suffering over? the death of this fiat system is going to usher in cannibals. Not some kind of corporate raider mind you.. real live walking killing people eating people veins in their teeth mad-ass cannibals.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:26 | 1009168 DoctoRx
DoctoRx's picture

Gold stocks, PHYS

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 20:32 | 1009560 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

They have to find it before they can take it.

Got physical?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:47 | 1009028 Tense INDIAN
Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:27 | 1009169 reachsb
reachsb's picture

The Indian and Chinese economies take a bigger hit when oil crosses the threshold limit. What that crossover point is exactly won't be known for a long time but I'm guessing it's something close to the current levels that oil is trading at. India runs a big current account deficit and being a big importer of oil, those numbers only get further accentuated with ever rising oil prices. India being a soft-power will be hesistant to pass down the higher prices to its citizens thereby, further eroding confidence in its currency (and therefore the huge domestic demand for precious metals). 

As far as China is concerned, how do Chinese exporters expect to make money while shipping raw materials from all over the world to China, processing it and then exporting the finished goods to the Western worlds when oil is at $150/barrel? The world needs some fiat oil!!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:56 | 1009064 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

Silver, gold, oil, guns, ammo, food...take whatever you can for those green paper coupons...and quickly.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:58 | 1009079 Cash_is_Trash
Cash_is_Trash's picture

Asia steps up to the plate.

Will she hit a homer?

Nominal Trillionairezzz

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:01 | 1009092 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

A nice sharp kukri knife or two also.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:02 | 1009095 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Arrrgh, stop feeding the trolls.

Half this thread is dedicated to a particularly hideous one. Who the ffff cares what he thinks.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:03 | 1009099 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

O how i hate trolls!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:09 | 1009116 Lazane
Lazane's picture

the surge in real wealth prices is about to go parabolic, my tired and retired barrister of the court called me today and wanted advice on how to procure pieces of eight, shiver me timbers,  here come the judge.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:13 | 1009128 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

well good.. when J6P starts to hoard silver I should b able to pay off the mortage with a couple of my silver strike tokens from the vegas machines.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:30 | 1009180 frippy
frippy's picture

An admission: I take a certain amount of perverse pleasure at watching people like Douchenger, Nad-less, Snakeoil Salesman Prechter, Kass-hole, Fartman et al gnash their teeth and wad their panties as the PMs march higher and higher.

Am I deranged?

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