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Gold Commercial Short Positions Hit All Time High, As Gold Spike Protection Team Keeps Very Busy

Tyler Durden's picture


In addition to the EUR data in today's CFTC Commitment of Traders report, another data point that caught our eye is the record exposure in outright commercial shorts in gold: this week they hit an all time high of 450,950. It appears that last week the desire to suppress any gold breakouts was at historic highs, even as net commercial exposure hit a 2010 low of -282.6, just slightly higher than that seen in the second week of January. If even with this massive onslaught to keep gold low by the LBMA, the precious metal managed to nearly hit $1,250 today, what will happen to gold when the 450k commercial positions are forced to cover?


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Fri, 05/14/2010 - 16:49 | 352658 beastie
beastie's picture

Dear JPM etc.

If I can put in a request for 1100 per oz next week that would be great. Thanks in advance.


Fri, 05/14/2010 - 16:59 | 352684 sheeple
sheeple's picture

+1 LOL

How ironic, gold bulls want gold price to go down (understandably so because any sane minded would buy the dips)

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 07:55 | 353462 living on the edge
living on the edge's picture

I am long gold and buying more when possible so I do appreciate the dips provided by JPM. In fact one more major take down would be just about right for me.

This being said, once we have all tapped out our buying where do we go from here Costa Rica?


Sat, 05/15/2010 - 09:09 | 353510 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

PMs, guns, ammo, food and shelter.  Once the necessities are secured, physical and mental condition are to be improved.  Read the Constitution and Declaration of Independence (get a pocket version to carry around, or 100 to pass out), Human Action, The Road to Serfdom, The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude, The Law, etc.  If SHTF, we'll need capable leaders, or at the very least, people who know what they are fighting for.

Really, there's not much downside to this plan.  Suppose everything smooths over and we go back to great productivity and wealth creation.  You've got guns and ammo to play with, food to eat, and land to enjoy.  Not to mention you're educated and in great physical shape.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 10:20 | 353549 Híppos Purrós
Híppos Purrós's picture

That's a deliciously pragmatic and balanced point of view, Conrad.  Kudos!

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 11:41 | 353603 Apostate
Apostate's picture

Nah, do not hand out guns to people who are untrained.

There are veterans of the Iraq war that have literally killed thousands of people in close combat. You do not want to go face-to-face with a room-breaching pointman. You never, ever want to face a Ranger, SEAL, or hardened Marine veteran.

It's irresponsible. Don't turn your town into Fallujah.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 12:47 | 353663 Jack H Barnes
Jack H Barnes's picture

That is why they are included by any Capt worth his salt who is preparing for the breakdown.  Life is more than just gold, guns & girls.

A well rounded "Free Company" is formed out of people who already have experience you need. Its about the survival of the "company", which is built on the skill sets each member bring to the event . A Free company needs more than just experienced trigger pullers.  Those are easily found.

a skill check list includes:

Doctor, Lawyer, Dentist, RN Nurse, (fixed wing multi engine) Pilot, Helo Pilot, Farmer, Rancher, Hunter, Fisherman, General Contractor, Plumber, Electriction, Cook, a Miner, an Armorer, a Black Smith, an Accountant, lots of Combat Vets... you get the idea.

What this place doesnt talk about is the kind of transportation/shelter plans you have.  Ie a small group of RVs might not be noticed, but can transport a platoon of troups.  RVs make great mobile camps.  A couple of full sized SUV with heavy duty tow hitches.  Winches on all rigs.  encrypted communications between units.  Its more then having combat troups and hiding out at the magical hidden cabin.  If your going to survive you have to be able to provide a lifestyle worth living.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 13:03 | 353679 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

What about a Spanish teacher?

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 13:10 | 353685 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

You forgot the egomaniac who runs the group.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 13:37 | 353708 Fedup
Fedup's picture

And the lawyer to defend you on the criminal charges when the FBI and BATF arrests you...

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 13:38 | 353710 Fedup
Fedup's picture

Which I assume is different from the lawyer who helps organize the group... they can form a law firm of two.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 13:48 | 353717 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Don't forget the token Dork - it would not be a proper action / adventure flick without a dumb sidekick to pass off humorous remarks to trivialise violence and so make it acceptable to a family audience.

Sun, 05/16/2010 - 02:39 | 354342 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

For what? Flag waving?

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 14:05 | 353733 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Guns & ammo - virtually useless.

Hasn't worked in any collapsed society anywhere.  Good to have one or two pistols maybe a rifle, but beyond that a complete waste of time except to sell to people who own none.

Shit is not going to hit the fan like a zombie apocalypse.  It never has anywhere. 

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 16:55 | 353825 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Ever hear of the fall of Rome?

Sun, 05/16/2010 - 03:31 | 354366 Marc45
Marc45's picture

Dude get serious.  If it comes down to food, water and guns, things will be a lot worse than you can imagine.  Martial law will rule and the man will take your stuff with much bigger guns.


Sun, 05/16/2010 - 16:58 | 355100 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

You're right.  We should all just carry on as is, spending into oblivion with money we have never, nor will ever have, created the wealth to back it.  What sense is there in having a fighting chance when it is inevitable we will all just role over to our masters, as we've been conditioned to do?  Good luck in life.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 17:29 | 352736 Hughe Crapper
Hughe Crapper's picture


If JPM want people to stop buying gold, they should go long for the full amount in Fort Knox. End of...

This shorting is just silly. Never experienced a primary dealer selling the gold of the state in a short sale. ;)


Fri, 05/14/2010 - 17:59 | 352780 Steaming_Wookie_Doo
Steaming_Wookie_Doo's picture

Will you be wanting the bars with or without tungsten? Oh, we're out of the "without" ones...

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 03:17 | 353377 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture


FAQ: "Will I get gold bars with or without tungsten?"
JPM Gold Order Express strives for the satisfaction of every customer on every gold and paper gold transaction.

Physical gold orders are selected at random from gold in inventory. Typical "alloy" (tungsten) bars are 88% likely in any order.**

**The actual physical delivery of gold instead of a JPM "Jamie Dimon Special Club Members" Certificates of Guarantee "We Have Your Gold" are next to zero.

FAQ: "I dropped my JPM gold bar on my granite counter top and dented the counter. Does that mean my bar is tungsten?"...

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 08:51 | 353495 snowdude
snowdude's picture

I think that means your counter top is probably not granite;-)

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 18:04 | 352790 thesapein
thesapein's picture

Even crazier when the state itself tries to fix a low value by actually printing low values right on the coins! Talk about marketing your product down. Things are upside down.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 18:21 | 352821 aaronvelasquez
aaronvelasquez's picture

A fifty dollar gold eagle and a one dollar silver eagle imply something around a twenty-to-one devaluation if one were to use the coins as currency.  Bob Chapman seems to expect a formal devaluation of the dollar this year.

Maybe it won't be the "Amero," it will be the "Eagle."

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 20:17 | 352967 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture



Sat, 05/15/2010 - 00:23 | 353268 TheGoodDoctor
TheGoodDoctor's picture

@aaron. Sent an e-mail to Bob Chapman last weekend. He said he expects the devaluation to occur next year in 2011.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 08:59 | 353503 snowdude
snowdude's picture

How would you officially devalue a floating currency?  If it's pegged to a standard, like the dollar was in the early 1930s or like the yuan is now, then it's easy.  You just declare a new peg and then try to defend it.  Since it floats today, I would think it will only devalue when the world has lost confidence.  Lately it's been going up as people flee the flagging euro.  Where will the dollar go in 2011 if we get a full euro-flop?

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 12:49 | 353665 Honest_Money
Honest_Money's picture

Don't mistake the dollar going up versus the Euro with a strong dollar.  The dollar is going down versus gold, the world's real currency.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 19:53 | 352970 All_In
All_In's picture

Yes, but it helps when leaving the country and having to claim the metal in your pocket is less than $10, the $50 amount printed on the 1oz Gold coin I can have 200 ounces without having to declare...  :^)

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 20:40 | 353000 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

Declare?  Not me man. I buy mine with post office money orders or cash.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 21:02 | 353020 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

Can you take it across the border if you have more than 8 coins without declaration?

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 21:30 | 353058 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Legal tender of a one oz Eagle is $50. limit 200.  The trick would be flying with 200 Eagles (15 lbs worth)getting them through the TSA without raising some red flags.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 21:50 | 353082 johnnyBoy
johnnyBoy's picture

I think gold doesn't register.  My rolex goes through everytime without a peep from the sensors.  OH-OH.  Just gave a tip to the terrorists of the world..a solid gold gun with solid gold bullets.  I am sure it is already on the drawing board.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 09:19 | 353515 RhoRhoRhoBoat
RhoRhoRhoBoat's picture

wasnt this part of the James Bond movie Goldfinger?

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 11:59 | 353617 LiquidBrick
LiquidBrick's picture

a solid gold gun with solid gold bullets.  I am sure it is already on the drawing board.

But it would only be able to fire one bullet because it will warp, bend and destroy the chamber. Gold is ameable.




Fri, 05/14/2010 - 22:07 | 353094 akak
akak's picture

Actually, the Treasury, US Customs and the Minimum Wage Gestapo, er TSA, all officially claim and consider gold to be a "non-monetary instrument", so legally at least, you can travel with ANY quantity of it and without having to declare it.  Legally --- in practice, I don't know what might happen with the TSA goons, but they can not legally prevent an American from travelling with it or having to declare it.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 22:43 | 353129 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

If it's over $10,000 in anything liquid or cash-like, I think you DO have to declare it when taking it out of the USA.

I also recently read that TSA is not supposed to harrass travelers (!) who are not a threat.

Check with your lawyer before taking $10,000 + in gold undeclared out of the USA.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 22:54 | 353136 akak
akak's picture


No, I have researched this topic at length, and was as surprised as you are now!

You are correct about cash and other "monetary instruments", but gold is explicity defined by the US Treasury and US Customs as a "non-monetary instrument", so legally, you could carry $1,000,000 in gold onto a plane with no hassle at all.  Again, that is LEGALLY --- in practice, I have never traveled with gold, and do not know how one might or might not be treated by the TSA if they did so.

Believe me, I was as skeptical as you are, and I wouldn't expect you to take my word for it, but that is the case.  Since they officially do not consider gold, or diamonds, or platinum to be monetary assets, they cannot turn around at the border and treat it like one.  But I wonder how much longer it will be before this freedom is taken away from us, in the name of "fighting terrorism" or "national security" or "anti-money laundering" or whatever convenient bullshit excuse the statists will use --- and you know they eventually  will.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 23:17 | 353154 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Uh you might want to check this case out first. Seems to me there might be a double speak standard when it comes to the actual value of a PM coin, and its value as legal tender.


Its a payroll case, not a border crossing case, but there are some definite similairities.


Excerpt: "It's not whether what Mr. Kahre did was legal under the law," defense attorney Michael Kennedy told the jury in his opening statement. "It's whether he believed what he did was legal," in the absence of explicit instructions by the IRS -- on its Web site, in its publications or in response to written correspondence from Kahre -- on how to value post-1985 gold or silver coins."

Translation: If you think you're trying to get away with something, you will be *busted for it whether it is legal or not.


*Unless you're a massive bank with former/hopeful employees firmly entrenched in a nation's governing body; barring Iceland's. (sorry, I couldn't resist the addition.)



Fri, 05/14/2010 - 23:31 | 353183 akak
akak's picture


Yes, I am aware of that payroll case.

In that instance, it was a matter of payroll taxes and the IRS ---- entirely different from the border-crossing situation.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 00:27 | 353273 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

MB, but I'd still get some legal counsel before a full-on attempt.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 15:37 | 353779 Dburn
Dburn's picture

Best of luck getting a written opinion. In my experience , getting legal opinions make pulling chicken teeth like pulling on candy from a pez container

If there are no  black letter statutes or rules that they can refer too, you get "on the one hand..." along with a string of mixed Metaphors which only serves to confuse you more and costs money that would not be considered  an insubstantial amount (double Negatives too)  unless of course it's John Yoo and you wanted a opinion on frying or boiling testicles.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 23:29 | 353185 steve from virginia
steve from virginia's picture

It will soon be difficult/impossible to take gold out of the country by 'normal' transport (air, sea, shipping container, etc.) unless part of 'transaction' relating to finance: that is by an investment bank. 'Capital controls'.

 - Right this minute, gold is more liquid than currency. A hundred thousnd dollars in gold is a small amount. Try to get a hundred thousand in currency from a bank! It's easier to pull teeth from a charging rhino. This is when physical gold is supposed to be difficult to obtain in the Eurozone due to the onrushing panic.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 00:22 | 353264 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Right this minute, gold is more liquid than currency. A hundred thousnd dollars in gold is a small amount

Most excellent point, minus the 'right this minute'. Strikes directly to the face of the 'but you can't buy groceries with gold' crowd. Who are partly right, if you only shop at the 'Food Flood' where the average clerk probably can't even spell 'specie'. But I'd wager a small gold coin would take you far at a farmer's market, or at your locally owned grocer possessing a modicum of saavy.

And contrary to all the Dollar Bulls loud and ubiquitous assertions, the entire world does-not/will-not value the USD as the currency that is 'as good as gold'. Not when you want to purchase a hard asset like arable land, anyway:


"The other major difference in the buying process in Vietnam is that all transactions are carried out in pure gold. While this seems like a quirky and antiquated system (To duped FIAT slaves-Ed.), it means that any buyer in Vietnam needs to keep a very close eye on the cost of metals for the best time to buy, as the fluctuating markets could make your property suddenly much more expensive."

Barbarous relic indeed.

Eur goes down first, sure, but guess who's next on the list once that foil is gone. Hell, I love my PM's, though if I had no choice but a FIAT, once this happens I'd be all over the DM.





Sat, 05/15/2010 - 01:08 | 353301 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

I love it.  The Constitution states the only money shall be minted in gold and silver, now the feds say gold and silver are "non-monetary instruments".  War is peace, 2+2=5, etc....

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 08:59 | 353502 Sabremesh
Sabremesh's picture

A gold bar may be a "non-monetary" instrument, but Gold or Silver eagles are US legal tender coins so are most definitely "monetary" in nature. However, their monetary value is the face value, not their bullion value. Krugerrands and other foreign bullion coins may not be regarded as being monetary instruments, I don't know.


Fri, 05/14/2010 - 23:54 | 353229 PaperWillBurn
PaperWillBurn's picture

If the Treasury values gold at $42.22 and ounce then so do I. Bring a print out with you from a government site stating the value of your gold.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 08:33 | 353488 Good To Great
Good To Great's picture

At this point in time I can't image why one wouldn't just travel to the destination and then buy the gold there. Or real estate, etc. If the time comes when it's necessary to actually get the metal out of this country in an emergency it won' be possible to carry it, no matter what the rules are now.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 17:02 | 353832 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You can't carry cash out of the country either.  You will have problems no matter what you do.

And that is prior to a currency collapse!

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 09:45 | 353530 silvertrain
silvertrain's picture

This guy is right..A man was arrested about 3 weeks ago in mexico for carrying 150 gold coins across the border..

 google     man arrested in mexico with 150 gold coins   it will turn up alot of hits, it was all over the news...

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 22:57 | 353146 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

its only 200 coins..  put them in a poker case or something

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 21:37 | 353067 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

No.  I took some gold out of the country (kind of a lot) a year or so ago.

I filled out the stupid Customs form, and the Customs lady said (after making a call), when I correctly stated that they (1 oz Eagles) were worth about $900 each said: "Right answer."

The next time my wife and I left the USA, we each took 5 non-declared Eagles each.  Went right through the TSA machines, no one even blinked.


Fri, 05/14/2010 - 23:27 | 353182 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

In that case, why not fill out the form? so what if they know.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 21:49 | 353081 thesapein
thesapein's picture

Awesome, never thought about that. 

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 23:06 | 353153 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

Hey, where's everyone going?  Why are y'all leaving w/ all that gold?

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 22:26 | 353117 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

The coins (gold and silver eagles) were first minted in 1986.  The talk at the time was that the denomination was selected to insure that the face value would be low enough that the coins would not enter circulation.  I was around then and recall the opinions of the "experts".   In actual fact, you can use the coins as legal tender if the seller is willing to accept it.  I know of one instance where a used car was purchased with gold eagles.  The seller wrote down the sales price as the face value of the coins.  The buyer registered (and paid tax) on the sales price.   The dealer booked a "loss" on the sale of the car. The buyer paid little in sales tax and registration fees.  Perfectly legal.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 11:34 | 353598 All_In
All_In's picture


From the National Inflation Association website FAQ:

Q: Why do gold American Eagles have a dollar value on them?

A: Gold American Eagles are legal tender and have a face value of $5, $10, $25 and $50 for their weights of 1/10 oz, 1/4 oz, 1/2 oz and 1 oz respectively. These face values are symbolic only. Their actual intrinsic values are a lot higher due to gold currently being worth over $1,100 per ounce. Having a face value and being legal tender allows the coins to travel across national borders without the taxation and fees otherwise imposed by many countries on bullion itself.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 15:06 | 353764 thesapein
thesapein's picture

If only it applied to the taxation of our own country.

Just imagine, what if inflation could be used as a capital loss write-off for dollars. We have to pay taxes on gains for coins regardless of face value, why not dollars?

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 16:54 | 352671 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

Thanks for the Balance Tyler!

Who Junks someone slamming JPM for holding the price of Gold Down?

Idiot's thats who!

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 16:56 | 352677 lucky 81
lucky 81's picture

someone who wants to get more before it explodes, thats who.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 23:22 | 353177 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

There is Logic to your arguement, if you think the World is coming to an end?

Or that the Governments of the World, ALL! that print money will fail.

I don't think most of you have a good grasp on what happens when the lights go out.

I pray every day that the lights don't go out, I never Pray for myself by the way...

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 18:13 | 352806 thesapein
thesapein's picture

If it weren't these "idiots," you'd still be an idiot.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 23:24 | 353179 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

Plus 100 Trillion, Thank You! for the levity and perspective... I am only human at the end of the day, its the mornings before tea when I am a Monster!

Have a Fantastic weekend, JW

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 18:18 | 352816 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture


Fri, 05/14/2010 - 18:50 | 352875 GS is short Gold
GS is short Gold's picture

seriously, that's an idiotic post. GS and the rest were right 61/61 because it's a rigged market full of collusion. Anybody could make money in that scenario, even someone as stupid as you. 

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 18:59 | 352893 Johnny Bravo
Johnny Bravo's picture

Oh, okay.  So it's a rigged market (rigged by them nevertheless) full of collusion, and yet you say that they are making the wrong trades on PMs.

Do you even see your logic at all?

You say that they rig the market, and make the market, and yet they don't know which way gold is going.  Hmmm.  I guess that they'd better trade against the market that they rig, since everybody likes to lose money.

Do you realize that you've done nothing but strengthen my argument in two sentences or less?

They rig the markets, they make the markets.  And now, they're short gold and silver.  Hmmm... I wonder which way the market is going to go?

Oh wait, I KNOW!!!  It must be going up, since they're short, right?  I mean, they're only right 100% of the time...

Your argument only strengthens the argument that JPM and GS are in a better position than you are. 
And they're against gold by being short.  They make the markets.  What do you do?  Make stupid conspiracy theories that don't make sense logically?

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 19:14 | 352924 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

stupid conspiracy theories

Didn't you just now, in essensce, stipulate that JPM et al are in fact controlling the markets?  So they're not stupid conspiracy theories, are they?  You may think it's stupid, and it certainly is a conspiracy, but not really a theory.  As others have noted, a perfect batting average among the friends is some kind of message, isn't it?

And I for one don't mind betting against them, as I am convinced they can't keep it up forever (the conspiracy fact, I mean), and since I am not on their "friends and family plan" (and isn't it obvious they have one?) I won't know beforehand when they decide to give up.  So I just sit on my PMs and wait; BTW, the sitting and waiting part has paid off quite handsomely so far.  How's your stocks since oh, say, 2001?

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 19:40 | 352953 caconhma
caconhma's picture

conspiracy theories... what is that? The answer is simple: anybody who has doubts in government provided BS and lies must be a conspiracist.

unfortunately, I know nobody who believes  to government lies and makes good living.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 21:06 | 353026 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

don't be so kind; how are they since 1999?

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 04:51 | 353401 timhinchliff
timhinchliff's picture

+ 1

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 12:01 | 353621 Johnny Bravo
Johnny Bravo's picture

Fuck, I bought 500000 shares of at 500 bucks a share, and now they're all worth a penny.  You got me.

LOL.  Do you think anybody just holds stocks for 11 years?  Maybe you did, and maybe YOU lost your money that way.  I have more sense than that, however...

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 11:59 | 353619 Johnny Bravo
Johnny Bravo's picture

"How's your stocks since oh, say, 2001?"

That would be a relevant question IF I held stocks since 2001.

When conditions change, I change my mind.  What will the goldbugs do, now that their conditions are about to change?

I know that 14 people on here are too biased to see the truth about their investments, and those same 14 people have to junk my perfectly valid argument because they don't HAVE a rebuttal, but that's okay, because it's just 14 more people that will lose their ass by not remaining versatile.  It just shows how lame and weak minded goldbugs are as a group.

Goldbugs: "Oh NO!  That guy makes a perfect point!  Junk him so he'll go away!  Ahhh!!!  I can't hear an opposing side.  *plugs ears* LALALALA!"

It's funny how everybody talks about how they've held since the low.  Yet, it almost never happens that way.  I know that when I'm up 30%, the majority of the time, I'm out.  I guess that people who hold for long periods of time probably have different objectives.  So, if you're one of those people, good for you.  Still, it seems like too many people made the exact right call at the right time.  Maybe you did, but I doubt that the rest of these douches did the same.  They've been buying gold at 1150 and up.  LOL at them.

All I know is that the recent trading action by JPM, GS, et al IS a sign.  It's a sign that they're perfect.  Now they're short.

If you were betting on a baseball hitter in Vegas with a 1000 batting average, would you make the bet that his next at bat will not only be a strike out, but a career ending injury?

That's what the goldbugs seem to think will happen to JPM because of their massive short positions.
Okay, so they've been right 100% of the time, but now all the sudden they're about to crap out with 100:1 leverage.

I mean really.  If they're REALLY at 100:1 leverage like the conspiracy theorists seem to think since 2001 or whatever, wouldn't they already be bankrupt like 50000 times over?  That right there should be your first clue that they haven't been short the entire time.

Yet, if they are short, and adding even more short interest, that should tell you something.  Anybody with half a brain should bet WITH the banks, and not against them.  They're ALWAYS right because THEY MAKE the market.

I'd love to see the portfolios of most ZHers since 2008, however.  Most have some modest gains in gold, like ten percent, which they've made over the last few months or so.
Yet, they've been bearish on the rally that has funded my college education.

You can say whatever you want, and junk me whenever you want.  The truth that we all know is that the banks aren't going to start crapping out now when they make the markets.  You can plug your ears and go LALALALA I can't hear you! 
Or, you can realize what's up and save your portfolio before it's too late by not fighting the tape.

The banks are short gold.  Gold WILL go down.  There's nothing you can do. 
"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows."

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 19:15 | 353996 hubbywan
hubbywan's picture

Isn't it interesting that thebullion banks got 100 cents on the dollar when AIG got bailed out. There's not been a good explanation as to why. Could it be a taxpayer bailout/payback for the shorts that had been played, or were yet to be played.

Yes, I am a conspiracy history buff, but this is conspiracy in real-time.

I'm just sayin'...

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 20:00 | 354019 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Not trading, never a trader; holding until the conditions that caused me to buy gold in the first place are actually corrected, or are well on their way to being corrected.  Those conditions haven't even been admitted yet, let alone discussed by "authorities", let alone corrected.  Instead, the "authorities" have chosen to solve the debt problem with more debt, with newly printed money, with accounting gimmics that pretend the debt will be dealt with "later", and with unlimited free taxpayer money for the banks (a small portion of which is used to "lobby" Congress).

Gold might go down; it typically does when the government banks hit a peak net short.  It doesn't matter to me, because I have no intention of selling until the conditions I described are met. As I have noted elsewhere, I am not a market timer and am not on the big banks' "friends and family list".  As you have noted, their trading performance is perfect.  Since this is Madoff territory, they lie, cheat, and steal.  You may behave in a similar craven manner if you wish and follow their lead.  You've noted that you are "paying tuition" so I assume you are a young person.  I am sorry that you have not had the benefit of better role modeling.

I have no illusions about the power of the market manipulators.  We have witnessed, and continue to witness, a concerted campaign to build up and then dash hopes in the precious metals markets.  Once burned, twice shy is the intent I suppose.  I have continued to accumulate over the past few years, and there have been some stunning "corrections", which last months or even more than a year.  I remain undeterred; I expect more "corrections", whatever their source might be.  I have noticed that, when the precious metals market starts to look like it's going to run away, the Internet blogs are absolutely clogged with people like you, spouting the same stuff; in some cases, when challenged, they become almost shrill, as you have begun to do.  These markets are no place for the faint of heart.  Once this sucker really gets going there will be $100+ dollar a day moves, both ways.

As for there being nothing I can do, you are so very wrong. I am very actively working on a number of things.  I know that the system can go on for some time in a completely corrupted state, but I also know that it cannot last forever.  It seems the breakdown is accelerating.  That means it will soon be time to choose sides.  It appears you have already chosen yours.  On the other side of this, you may become a chameleon and maybe get away with it.  Perhaps your peer group will forgive you.  Or perhaps not.


Sat, 05/15/2010 - 20:48 | 354095 merehuman
merehuman's picture

SW Richmond. Good straight talk. I love it. Thanks much

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 22:58 | 354241 bilbert
bilbert's picture

"I'd love to see the portfolios of most ZHers since 2008, however.  Most have some modest gains in gold, like ten percent, which they've made over the last few months or so."

Uh - beg to differ.........I'm up over 150% on a good sized load of SLW purchased at $8.20 a little over a year ago.

I suspect I'm not the only one, and as Richmond pointed out, I don't trade it, it's not for sale, and when things start looking like there is some semblance of fiscal responsibility being enacted in our country, may decide to sell then.

The "Smart Money" has become arrogant, IMO, and still believes it can control the price of Gold and Silver, through massive naked shorting.  When large buyers can't take physical delivery of their metal from the COMEX, in say, July - August of this year, tell me again what geniuses JPM, and GS are.

They are getting desperate as we speak, and have painted themselves into a corner.  Me? - I'm quite content holding physical, and some well managed miners, and will do so until I see some signs that we are actually addressing the problem that caused me to invest in PM's (like Richmond) in the first place.




Sun, 05/16/2010 - 01:03 | 354309 JX
JX's picture

If they're really at 100:1 leverage...

---They are, and duh, guess what-gold is going to go down!  Nobody denies this.  This is the effing manipulation.  If it's at 100:1, there is more than enough paper to push gold down.  What's going to be fun is walking that tight rope with gale force winds-at a mile up from the ground.  What's gonna happen when forced to cover their positions?  BAM!  Paper covers everything-until it doesn't.  The beauty of the thing is, gold always shines, paper always fails.  Sooner or later, the paper will be ash.  This is about now though...

Going with the banks here. Ain't buying none till I see the dip, which from the looks of that chart is going to be nice.  Then, guess what-after unwinding the shorts, gold will be able to go up once gain.  2 steps up, one back.  Buy the dips.  Effing hell it's not hard to go with the banks and figure shit out.  Gold will explode.  Silver will supernova. 


Fri, 05/14/2010 - 19:49 | 352965 Troublehoff
Troublehoff's picture

They don't give a shit about losing money!

It's not about money. It's about control and power.


For these people money is free.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 19:50 | 352966 Troublehoff
Troublehoff's picture



I suggest people stop thinking about these moves in terms of money and start thinking of them in terms of power/control.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 21:01 | 353015 Marley
Marley's picture

Or perhaps in terms of poverty.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 21:30 | 353059 Dirtt
Dirtt's picture

Concur.  They know if they lose power this November - the Mother Of All Wild Cards - money may be the least of their worries.  Stay nimble and focused.

What 'they' will do in the next 6 months not to lose it may shock some people. They know they will never get another sniff at that gig again.  But hey.  They still have India's middle class to step it up.  That New Jersey chick who married into The Rothschilds recently voiced disappointment that India's Middle America just won't hurry up to become America2000.

"Damnit!! I have the food monopoly!!!! And they still can't afford to buy Santa Margarita Pinot Grigio so how in the hell will they afford my price controls?"

Sucks Maam when The Grand Plan just won't stay on the proper timetables.  Or is she just in a rush because the country behind Curtain I - United States of America - is about to slam the door in their faces? And she doesn't want it to hit her on the way out?

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 12:20 | 353640 Johnny Bravo
Johnny Bravo's picture

The banks will not lose power this November.  How would they?

Are the Republicans going to win back the senate?  Okay, so how is the party that is EVEN MORE friendly to Wall Street going to cause the banks to lose power?

What you people don't understand is that the banks OWN America.  It's a fact.
They own every politician.  They can't lose that power via elections, since all of our elected officials are bought and paid for.
They already HAVE the power.  They're not doing what they do to get power.  Why would they?  They already own Washington, DC.

Your vote won't make one bit of difference.  You can vote for the puppet on the beast's left hand, or vote for the puppet on the beast's right hand.
The same beast will be in charge after you're done voting.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 13:25 | 353694 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

This is true.  Only pitchforks and torches will wrest control of the country away from the banks.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 20:18 | 352985 GS is short Gold
GS is short Gold's picture

you have no argument. I meant the equities mkt is rigged and full of collusion. how long have you been wrong on your gold theories? you sound like either a burnt short or resentful that you missed the runup. they can control equities because the mkt is a sham now with noone trading. hence, a 1000 point drop if liquidity leaves at all. but the demand for gold and silver is so strong, they're getting run over on their shorts. you know JPM is documented to be the biggest short in the history of PMs, right?

by the way, they're not always right. Merrill lost $15B in 1 quarter during the crisis.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 12:14 | 353634 Johnny Bravo
Johnny Bravo's picture

LOL.  I was the only person on this site saying that gold was going to go down LAST time it hit 1220.  Everybody else was saying stupid things like "gold to 2000 by June, and gold to 6000 by the end of the year."

Merrill is different than JPM, GS, BAC, and C, who all had perfect quarters.  JPM is short gold. 
Also, Merrill is part of BAC, who had a perfect quarter last quarter, in case you missed it.

GS and JPM (the best traders on the planet) are short gold.

What do you mean I have no argument?  LOL.  You're just another person that plugs their ears and goes "LALALALA!!!  I won't acknowledge the truth that I'm buying in a bubble!  LALALALA!"

Okay, so the banks can control equiities, but they CAN'T control gold, which is a MUCH, MUCH smaller market?  How does that make sense?
It doesn't.

Sure, the short term demand for gold will affect the price marginally for a while, but that doesn't mean it won't fall again.  Retail investors are the last leg of the rally.  And... the people on zerohedge are what?
Retail investors!

The retail investors are long gold, with almost 100% bullish concensus almost anywhere you look, except for from me and a couple of other contrarians, and maybe in JPM's book. 
Kudlow is bullish gold.  Cramer is bullish gold.  Beck is bullish gold.  Retail investors are bullish gold.  Every commercial on TV is bullish gold.  My barber is bullish gold.  Your mama is bullish gold.
That is a contrarian indicator.

The only people who are short are the SAME people that have been right 61/61 days trading.  Hmmmm....

The retail investors are bullish, while the institutional investors are bearish.
Sounds like the last leg of a rally to me.  It's called "pump and dump."  It's been that way every time in history, and I don't want to hear "but this time is different!"
So do you really think that like 200 goldbugs on zerohedge are going to defy hundreds of years of market history, and are going to be right by betting against people with a 1.0000 batting average.
Not likely.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 12:53 | 353669 Burnbright
Burnbright's picture

"Okay, so the banks can control equiities, but they CAN'T control gold, which is a MUCH, MUCH smaller market?  How does that make sense?
It doesn't.

Well, I know you won't reply to this because it will make you look stupid but, they can't control the gold/silver market because what they are doing is essentially price controls. Price controls will cause shortages sooner rather than later and make it impossible to buy either PM in the future. That in itself will destroy the value of all currencies.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 13:15 | 353689 Honest_Money
Honest_Money's picture

JPM has been short gold during the entire bull run of the last 10 years.  The reason that they don't lose money on their position is because the Fed makes them whole.

Gold is a currency that competes with other currencies, including the dollar.  It's the most important asset in the world monetary system because it can't be destroyed by the politicians and massive debt.  It sovereign debt collapses, gold will rise to help offset the debt deflation.





Sat, 05/15/2010 - 22:25 | 354208 dumpster
dumpster's picture

a zit lesson

some years ago dumpster was In a coin shop .. grabbing some 350 gold '

a young zit face person was squeezing .. i asked him what he thought of gold   as he squeezed another zit 

my take said the zit  gold will not go beyound 400 .


dumpster went over a bought some more coins

i looked back as i left the store the zit guy was now using  a big cloth to cover his face ..


moral . when faced with a zit . protect your self with gold

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 12:16 | 353637 LiquidBrick
LiquidBrick's picture

Actually, from what I understand GS and JPM have provisioned to permit gold to go up 20-30% per year in tandem with the market but take out all longs and shorts in the process.  Neat huh?  You lose on the way up and down (unless you are holding PM for a long time and will continue to hold - and avoild the electronic front running).  Bastards.

99% of the wealth will always be controlled by 1%).

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 19:12 | 352921 silvertrain
silvertrain's picture

  They have booked a loser in gold this week..They may make it up shorting the red roof in but they getting that ass tapped fooling with gold now..They have booked a loser brother, they better get out while they can while they still can pay the mexican pool boys..ALL TIME HIGHS,ANYBODY ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT IS GRABBING THE ANKLES

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 07:08 | 353440 Dan Jordan
Dan Jordan's picture

I don't think Gold is the one-way train that most people are expecting. Consider the possibility of a deleveraging process in trading positions as a few portfolios go belly up and have to unwind positions. These risks are still here and could take it back to 900 no problems. There is a feeling of hysteria about Gold at the moment and it can only lead to another short term bubble. Not yet, but soon. I prefer diamonds. Much more practical but even the diamonds will get hurt if we go through another deleveraging process. Liquidity is liquidity at the end of the day.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 12:23 | 353643 Dantzler
Dantzler's picture

Diamonds, eh?

I love diamonds, but I only value them for their matchless abrasive power...

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 14:29 | 353739 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

What percentage of German savings were converted  into gold this week , not a lot in the great scheme of things

Yet todays financial times is reporting that the Germans were the primary reason for the gold price push recently.

You guys are way to Dollar centric in your Worldview.

On this forum a few weeks ago I said that Gold would go to 1000 Euros by Christmas - It turns out that it was a very conservative call.

Why this sudden vicious turn around - I believe the average American Joe or more precisely the Median Joe has no cash savings, it does not really matter if they get the Goldbug syndrome.

Germany and other Northern European middle class have huge cash savings and huge numbers - when Helmet catches the fever he can move mountains of fiat and convert to Gold.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 17:29 | 353859 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Let me interject here, with a short history lesson.  When gold was discovered in South Africa, in 1886, the British had lost interest, but suddenly decided this little country was one of the most important strategic locations on Earth.  in 1870 when the Suez Canal had been finished, the British thought they were done with South Africa, as the lengthy voyage around Africa was now unnecessary.  After discovering copious amounts of gold, large amounts of diamonds were also discovered. At that point diamonds had no industrial use, as it was too rare, and no commercial value, as no one had heard of such a thing as a diamond ring. Long story short, Cecil Rhodes set up DeBeers in order to create a monopoly in the diamond trade.  And this monopoly means you cannot resell diamonds for the same amount you bought them for.  The price of diamonds is artificially elevated, while gold is suppressed.  Pick your poison.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 19:15 | 352923 Blindweb
Blindweb's picture

What do Hitler, Julius Ceasar, Luis XVI, Tim Russert, etc have in common...they were going gang busters... until they weren't.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 19:53 | 352969 thesapein
thesapein's picture

Actually, there's a huge difference between JPM and GS.

Saying GS is shorting this market is like saying GS was long the housing bubble.

If you follow the same players, many of those guys who shorted housing are now long gold, yo.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 12:34 | 353651 Johnny Bravo
Johnny Bravo's picture

Then why does the graph at the top of the screen say that they are short?

Notice how short interest was the lowest at the last bottom?  Surely there can't be any correlation there.
They're not long.  That's the entire point of this post.  Most goldbugs would agree with at least that much.

Where our opinions differ is in what exactly that means.  I think it means cloudy skies ahead for the PMs.  Goldbugs think that their asset will only go in one direction indefinitely. 

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 13:27 | 353700 thesapein
thesapein's picture

Because... it doesn't. Tyler's graph shows the commercial shorts. As we know by looking within this group in the past, JPM has made up the majority of these short positions (though backing off in the last few weeks as others step up). However, GS has not been participating in these commercial shorts on silver and gold. Or so I thought?


Sat, 05/15/2010 - 13:55 | 353721 thesapein
thesapein's picture

Talking about goldbugs as a group is like talking about atheists as an unified group or a herd of cats. So I can't speak for others, but I here I go anyway.

The writing is on the wall, in history books, in every known example, past and current, all fiat currencies tend to go in one direction. Like an atheist studying the evidence for the evolution of species, noticing the pattern, goldbugs are simply pointing to the evidence instead of believing in money creators.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 20:49 | 353008 dumpster
dumpster's picture

Jim Sinclair’s Commentary

Will the Sheeple (johnny bravo) remain comatose to the filth in finance?

These are the people that the Fed bailed out. Therefore these are the people your children and grandchildren will pay for plus interest.

Newest Wall St. probe focuses on muni bets.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 01:18 | 353310 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

How dare you call JB comatose? Quite the contrary, he's avidly complicit. Sure, he's totally duped; mb he's bucking for an online trolling position, I don't know... But his frantic blather could hardly be produced by someone who's taken GHB.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 12:35 | 353653 Johnny Bravo
Johnny Bravo's picture

Yeah, we'll see who's duped shortly.

Your bubble will only keep growing until it doesn't.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 19:11 | 353991 akak
akak's picture

Your bubble ---- government debt and unsustainable spending --- will pop long before any putative and currently nonexistent bubble in gold will.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 22:15 | 354197 dumpster
dumpster's picture

zit .pop a couple

Jim Sinclair’s Commentary

Everything will be bailed out. That includes every state and all sovereign debt as quantitative easing goes to infinity.

Gold will trade on this leg at a minimum of $1650. More than likely it will reach much higher.

Obama Administration Backs $23B Bill to Save Teacher Jobs
Up to 300,000 Public School Teachers May Lose Their

Sun, 05/16/2010 - 12:06 | 354692 Double down
Double down's picture

What should fill us with fear is the enormous obviousness for going long gold.  This is the best reason for not going long. 

As for shorts crushing the price, this is a little akin to placing ones butt on the lid of a nuclear pressure cooker to keep it from blowing.  That will work until the cost of this position in credibility becomes overwhelming.  With gold the issue is not one of price, but the location of the trade. It is the market, not the price. 

The shortage of credibility will lead to a shortage in physical gold.  The black market compensating for this will grow until it becomes too large to ignore.  When that point arrives there is no credibility left in the official bullion markets. 

And, that is when the gold price in those markets plummet only to be resurrected outside the official system.  What will also happen is that gold will drag other markets off the grid as well. 

I can see a black market for the dollar gold exchange rate as well.

This is happening now in other places of capital controls. Look at the dollar exchange rate in Venezuela or the unofficial gold markets in Vietnam.    

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 22:15 | 353105 merehuman
merehuman's picture

Its too easy to push the damn button. There should be instructions on how to junk. That would surely confuse them.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 23:18 | 353171 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture
by JW n FL
on Fri, 05/14/2010 - 15:54


Thanks for the Balance Tyler!

Who Junks someone slamming JPM for holding the price of Gold Down?

Idiot's thats who!


Soooooooooo, let me get this right? we have 10 JP Morgan plants here who are Pro PM manipulation?

Its a good thing the market is rigged? I guess you same 10 want JP Morgan to walk on the Criminal charges as well?

I really don't understand some people.

Pro Gold and Pro Gold manipulation? Well by that Logic, go buy Goldman Stock and Pray to Lord Blankman!

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 12:38 | 353654 Johnny Bravo
Johnny Bravo's picture

I don't think that anybody is pro JPM manipulation.

But, what are you going to do?  Almost everybody agrees that the markets are manipulated.
You can either trade with it or trade against it.  It doesn't mean that you're FOR the manipulation.  It just means that you acknowledge its existence.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 20:55 | 354110 merehuman
merehuman's picture

so if other folks commit crimes you feel its ok for you to do it also. Interesting. I feel better now having purchased a shotgun for that very go along get along , got no personal morals type guy.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 16:56 | 352679 Roy Bush
Roy Bush's picture

Tyler, do you have a graph which shows this from week to week or month to month?

Thanks for all the great work!

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 22:21 | 353111 merehuman
merehuman's picture

Ah  Tyler i have called the us office and get a sexy voiced lady sayen go to tip@zh. did that, or tried. I will try again later, or please send me an email. AM holding 10 oz silver , your name on it and would love to get it to you, i dont mind paying postage/ins. but need address. Its for the knowledge gained here, i am thankful .

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 10:14 | 353547 Janice
Janice's picture


I would like to donate also, but I don't (and won't) do paypal.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 12:19 | 353639 merehuman
merehuman's picture

Janice , thanks for helping make my point. ZH could open a po box. I bet they would get checks from a lot of us.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 13:12 | 353686 nikku
nikku's picture

I've tried and they won't accept Amex.  Get Paypal out of the way and take Amex.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 21:57 | 354175 dumpster
dumpster's picture

agreed on paypal.. as close as i get to them is with a 20 foot stick  

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 16:57 | 352680 economicmorphine
economicmorphine's picture

If even with this massive onslaught to keep gold low by the LBMA, the precious metal managed to nearly hit $1,250 today, what will happen to gold when the 450k commercial positions are forced to cover?


Uhh, if I had to bet I'd say a coordinated effort by global governments to ban going long gold and, if that fails, outright confiscation.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 16:58 | 352683 Calculated_Risk
Calculated_Risk's picture

Or do like they did with the Hunt Bros... only take sell orders.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 18:31 | 352844 swamp
swamp's picture

And change margin requirements overnight.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 18:45 | 352866 Johnny Bravo
Johnny Bravo's picture

If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts.

Oh what a world it'd be...

What happens when the New York alligators crawl out of the sewers and start mauling hobos?  Why, medical device companies will go up tenfold!

Screw gold, I'm investing in prosthetic leg companies...

Beware the alligators!  Prosthetic legz bitchez!!!

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 21:43 | 353071 cbaba
cbaba's picture

are you a GS employee ?

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 07:13 | 353442 Dan Jordan
Dan Jordan's picture

Can anyone here have a short gold opinion without being labelled GS or JPM? Bit ridiculous.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 17:32 | 353861 tmosley
tmosley's picture

JB, formerly Mater Bates is a paperbug troll with hundreds if not thousands of anti-gold posts on these topics.  Such relentless yapping without a shred of evidence to back up his story naturally leads many to beleive that he is paid to come here and talk down gold.

Personally, I think he's just an arrogant fool.  He'll by desperately digging for gold with the rest of the paperbugs soon enough. 

Otherwise, he'll be sitting on a street corner harrassing people walking buy who are on their way to the store to spend their silver on groceries. "DON'T YOU IDIOTS KNOW THAT METAL IS WORTHLESS!!!??  YOU SHOULD BE BUYING WITH THIS!!?" he'll say, as he flings about the little scraps of paper that were once used as currency.  Also, he'll be smeared in feces, wearing a tinfoil hat to keep the gold bugs telepathic mind control waves out of his brain, and wearing an old t-shirt with "I Heart Bernanke" written on it in Sharpie.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 12:42 | 353658 Johnny Bravo
Johnny Bravo's picture

I wish.

But really, just because I am WITH THEM on trades, doesn't mean that I'm one of their employees.
Next, I'm sure I'll be called Nadler or some other stupid thing.

I can just see which way the wind is blowing.  Can you?

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 21:55 | 353085 dumpster
dumpster's picture

for a slight taste of the characters in  orwells  1984

Johhny Brovo fits in well.

he looks out at the rain and cold  and still believes its hot and sunny.

so encourages folks to not wear a coat ,

lets see special on zit cream . for a zit faced and pocked exteria  .. a full bottle for an 2 oz of silver.

weeks worth  

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 12:25 | 353644 Johnny Bravo
Johnny Bravo's picture

Dumpster's post is a great example of what happens when you give illiterate, retarded people keyboards.

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 14:01 | 353730 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Don't confuse writing style with illiterate retards MB

Buried canned ham biatchies!

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 22:02 | 354183 dumpster
dumpster's picture

zit head

your mouth is the next best thing to a merkin

and a 29 year old out of work ,, going to school , trying to blow smoke up his bum ,, is best to keep quite about retards


Fri, 05/14/2010 - 18:58 | 352899 Hansel
Hansel's picture

Force majeure and cash settlement is my guess.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 16:58 | 352682 b_thunder
b_thunder's picture

" what will happen to gold when the 450k commercial positions are forced to cover?" - very likely, nothing.  paraphrasing Newton, "The Fed can print money faster than GoldBugs remain solvent."  Shorts may not have to cover any time soon.  Yes, one day gold will go up @by $250, but only AFTER it goes the same amount DOWN.


Fri, 05/14/2010 - 17:07 | 352701 baserunr
baserunr's picture


Wouldn't printing more dollars just increase the value of gold?  Devaluing the currency does not necessarily mean that everything else is devalued with it.  In fact, it seems the opposite would happen:  Inflation.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 17:47 | 352761 dnarby
dnarby's picture

Yes, but they can short gold as long as they have a press to print money to buy more.

Problem is that eventually the USD will collapse.

At that point, gold will go to 20k an ounce, but nobody will take dollars for it.

...Enter the new world currency! 

Which as long as it is backed by gold or gold/silver and 100% transparant in who issues it and in what quantitiy, I'll be quite fine with.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 17:47 | 352765 spartan117
spartan117's picture

You're thinking paper gold.  Nobody wants paper gold anymore.  I don't think any sane goldbug is buying paper gold anymore, especially using leverage.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 18:12 | 352803 Steaming_Wookie_Doo
Steaming_Wookie_Doo's picture

There is more than one market for Gold. If you're trading the paper, then yes, you could be forced out (long or short). But we have the other dynamics of individuals physically buying gold (in cash, not leveraging) in the US & Europe, and certain nations i.e.China, Middle East taking up physical where they can. Indirectly this puts pressure on the paper price. This is not something that will happen, say, with oil. No matter what the price per barrell, there is no point where I am going to put in a 3000 gallon tank in my yard to hold it and wait for speculative prices to rise. But I can always hold a few ounces of gold or silver in my pockets.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 21:13 | 353040 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

I heard that there is a lock limit on Gold going up for the day. Is that for Comex only? or world wide?

If true it tells all. Fed wants the stocks up and up and gold down and down.

These banks act on Feds instructions and Feds money to supress gold price 

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 21:39 | 353068 uraniuman
uraniuman's picture

Yes, there are lock limits on all commodities, as far as I know, both up and down. Been that way forever, thankfully.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 16:59 | 352685 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

panic among the phillistines.....keep bailing, banksters.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 17:04 | 352696 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

Government Shorts doesn't have to cover, ever.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 17:09 | 352705 silvertrain
silvertrain's picture

 There are going have to deliver though..All of these masses that bought the last few days were from fear, not investing..These people as I have talked to many, WILL BE TAKING DELIEVERY..THATS going to be a big problem..

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 17:35 | 352745 Common_Cents22
Common_Cents22's picture

who is required to make phys delivery?  I believe they all now have clauses that they can elect to settle in USD.   sorry sucka, read the fine print.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 17:42 | 352753 silvertrain
silvertrain's picture

  Whatch this fool   


 BO is gonna take all leveraged etfs down and out of business.. Lawsuits are heating up brother..

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 11:44 | 353606 Apostate
Apostate's picture

They blow up ETFs, they blow up Mr. and Mrs. Retail - IE the entire fucking country.

This is one of Rothbard's great observations - in the US, everyone is invested into the markets. Therefore, any kind of serious socialism will have a helluva time being inculcated into the populace.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 17:45 | 352758 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

These are physical markets where people go to purchase physical goods for business purposes.  There is no seller initiated cash settlement.  Cash settlement is for index futures and other paper only financial instruments.  If a delivery notice is made, delivery is required. 

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 17:09 | 352704 justbuygold
justbuygold's picture

The real story outside the Comex is actually quite the opposite.  Refiners in North America and Europe are backordered 6 months to a year, and that is a conservative figure.  There has been massive demand from the Chinese who have standing orders for whatever they can buy.  Gold and silver funds and trusts are also in the cue.   GLD and SLV are way behind in getting the allocations they need. Very weathly families , and especially from the Arab world ( Saudi's for the most part) have standing orders as well.  There is just no immediately deliverable gold or silver to be found in any type of size even at these prices !

Don't even pay attention to the Comex,  this is no longer at all representative of the massive demand supply imbalance in the REAL physical precious metals world.  Its truly nothing but paper.  I would even go so far as to say that Comex will fail by Xmas , likely first on its silver contracts,  which will then cause massive delivery demands on the gold side and that will fail shortly after.   The paper gig is soon over and those long paper contracts better be aware that they may default at any time. This COT showing the short side growing will just keep getting bigger in a more and more desperate attempt by the banks to stem an unsurmountable tide.  It is no longer a contrarian indicator.


Fri, 05/14/2010 - 17:23 | 352730 beastie
beastie's picture

Got any links. I know the Chinese govt are rumored to buying as much domestic as possible. Beyond that .....

I know HL has a war chest in silver on hand in anticipation of higher pricing.

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 17:37 | 352748 Cow
Cow's picture

Really?  Their inventory went down from 2008 to 2009.  Is it somewhere else on their balance sheet?


Fri, 05/14/2010 - 18:27 | 352836 thesapein
thesapein's picture

Would it be surprising to discover that China actually has more gold than they're announcing to us? Being the largest supplier of gold, it would not be hard for them to increase their holdings under the radar so as to ease the transition and to avoid increasing the price whilst they're still increasing their reserves???

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 18:33 | 352848 Cow
Cow's picture

I was referring to HL, not China

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 18:47 | 352869 Johnny Bravo
Johnny Bravo's picture

If they were withholding gold from the market, wouldn't that be avoiding decreasing the price?

I mean, in a world that functions with supply and demand and all...

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 19:44 | 352958 akak
akak's picture

I think you're hot!

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 12:23 | 353642 Johnny Bravo
Johnny Bravo's picture

LOL.  You know that my picture is of GW Bush right?

You think HE'S hot in his cheerleader uniform? 

Anyway, if you're ready to call a truce, that's cool. 

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