- advertisements -
The fundamentals that brought gold and silver to their current levels have not changed.
Wake me when Ben stops printing.
You will likely sleep a long time!
Wake up refreshed?
2:15 pm EST Wednesday April 27, 2011.
SS Endeavour liftoff.
You'll get a kick outta this, DCRB:
More Stupid Shit From Brett Arends:
From the Not-So-Smart Money.com website
Thanks Rocky! Ha ha.
Actually, Rocky, maybe you can giver me some advice! Next week I am going to one (or the other) of the two coin dealers to offer Silver Eagles in trade for Gold Eagles. I am following prices (and the GSR) as closely as I can, but I want to get a good deal without alienating my dealer. The guy closest to me said that yes he would accept a trade like that.
How should I negotiate with him to "save" a commission (one for selling and another of for buying)? What else would you suggest?
A small deal. I would offer him 120 - 160 oz Ag for Au.
your sweet deal and his sweet deal are around that second commission. i went into a deal the other way, where i wanted to trade a kruger for silver @ 60+:1. we agree to swap my gold for his morgan & peace silver dollars, and we started going and going. we started a side deal. i had everything i wanted, finally, he was cool. i start packing up the stuff and he tells me i owe him $100. so, there was a misunderstanding, and i freaked and backed away from the deal, not entirely sure of what i had missed, but this guy isn't flim-flam, so i just apologized and walked away.
what an idiot i was! that $100 represented quite a nick. but i shoulda just paid it, but, man it pushed my numbers where i didn't want to play. if i'd known the ratio was goin to the low 30's! but, i didn't. and he, as a dealer, wasn't giving away his vig on any ratio swaps, either.
you have about a $6000-$7500 deal here. if you want gold eagles, you may "pay" more than for maples or krugers, too. but maybe you guys can get down broadway together. go for it!
i don't think this is a small deal. anytime you are standing there with gold and silver going down, it is a real deal. size doesn't matter as much as the red light or green light on what i'd like to get and give.
Slewie is not too far off. YOU decide what you want and tell him. Then ask what he wants that is different from your offer. This will put you two together quicker than your asking him for his deal. You would be asking him to buy and sell at the same time which is not fair.
As a dealer he has to have some vig or it's not a profitable trade. Doesn't matter what he paid for his stuff just like it's moot what you paid for yours. Current market premiums determine the deal. If he can do better elsewhere then that's his prerogative. Only you know your trade limits so just stick to them. I would not walk away from a 5% difference in this market, however. On the other hand, don't make a trade on the possible future prices that might be favorable to you. I'll assume you are sticking to trading coins for coins (as opposed to non legal tender bullion). Stick to the current gold/silver ratio with some allowance for the premiums on each spot price to coinage rather than generic rounds or other strictly bullion. Premiums on a percentage basis are not the same for gold and silver. Give the dealer whatever of the vig that you feel comfortable with. The volatility will make fools of anyone!
If I were trading my gold for your silver I'd be very comfortable at current premiums/ratios. I'd rather have gold on hand than silver but the current silver volatility might offer me some proximate upside with the silver. Your dealer might be different. I would use eBay closed sales numbers as a guide to calculating your spreads. Use the chart at the bottom of this web page to search for the listings:
They have good search terms for finding the exact items. Then when you have the eBay page of listings, click on the "Advanced" link to the right of the search box at the top of the page. The advanced search page has a box to click "Completed Listings". Tick the box and hit the search button again. This will give you the CLOSED auctions -- ones that actually sold will be shown in green.
Here are the links for those for gold and silver eagles:
Print out the pages with your averages for sold items. The dealer will appreciate the work you put into the deal and he'll treat you with more respect. Be sure to take off the tin-foil hat before you go to his office/shop.
Rocky, an idea of mine has been around for sometime is to set up a small private investment pool as an fund sponsor or limited partner in a silver/gold coins fund for some friends too promote investment in physical silver coins. While I want to earn a lot from capital gain on precious metal investment, many of my friends, relatives are not familar with physical coins trading which prohibit them from investmenting in real money. I hope it can turn them from a victim to a champian of the ongoing inflation by providing a simple investment vehicle so they don't spend time to learn to become a physical coin trader/dealer while I provide such a service and charge a fair fee collectively. Sure there will be some charge to keep the operations, but I intends to make it very small operation, part-time, said 1 person(me) in the begining. Any idea what make it operational and attractive will be graceful!
1) Lockup period (6 months, 1 year, etc, to reduce decision risk as silver is very volatile)
2) Physical redemptable on market price - admin - shippment (backend loading), allocated
3) Cash redemptable on market price - admin - liquidating cost
4) Liquidity may be an issue if many investors cash in at the same time (hopefully when gold/silvere ratio hit 10, but some investor will be shaken out on price movement), the fund will need to liquidate silver/gold coins to get fiat paper for them. (May be a vasting schedule, but I don't want to put too much restriction as my aim is to create a structure for people to get in precious metal coins). Or may need some cash but will create cash drag for the investment fund.
5) Hedging: I do not intend to hedge with futures, but may use put for protection.
6) Storage: a private vault, auditable (but not sure if I want to pay the cost for it if it is too high).
7) Promotion: Private to start with. I want to go web based only to reduce the cost. But need to be aware of legal/regulation depends on the structure
8) Structure: LLC, limited partner, pooled physical investment, private company
9) While I don't want to spend my entire fulltime income to maintain the operation, I will need to charge some management/overhead fee.
10) Sourcing: Banks (I am in Hong Kong, where I can get gold & silver coins from Chinese banks as they promote them like crazy since few years back, yes, some Panda, from banks... thanks god, the genuine ones)/Major Authroized coin dealers (for Eagle/Maple).
It may be a silly idea to many savy investors here(as you guys mananged your own physicals), but I really appreciate your advice to forge/refine it to the point this idea manifest for wealth creation and protection for myself and many others. I hope I can create a Sportt-like physical ETF for years to come. Any suggestions are welcomed!
My advice: Don't get anywhere near this idea. You will be taken down either by the authorities or by your own clients. It's a no-win. I think you've reinvented the wheel. Why not just start a gardening coop.
Good luck to you anyhow.
Thanks Rocky! Need to do more research on alternatives! As well as if there is any authorities here in Hong Kong stop me doing it. Gardening is not vaible, land is very expansive properties/resource here.
If you even LOOK like you're making money, they'll want their cut.
"Silver is a totally pointless metal. (Okay, it does have some industrial applications — but even there it's generally substitutable. It's pointless, or at least a luxury, for ordinary people.)"
"Update: This article has been updated to acknowledge the industrial applications of silver."
I KNOW! Wasn't that the thing that made him look like the dork that he is?
Ben bernanke might not have been breastfed as a child and he has serious brain damage. But no! Why? he is a minion doing the elites job for them. 1400 On The S&P Coming? http://bit.ly/gOBvRc i think so!!!
What if JPMorgan "the bank" actually starting "issuing fresh Morgans?" Could the governent stop them?
Yes they would, you can't make your own dollars.
Gold and silver both rocketed into the close. OpEx is over, troll bitches. Let's see if you morons are still around come Friday.
OpEx is over, but we haven't heard from the FOMC yet. Don't get too cocky.
What are they going to do? Raise rates and destroy the United States? Don't think so. QE3 will happen, though it will likely be "unconventional", maybe not even official.
Gold and silver both rocketed into the close
Gold and silver both rocketed into the close
What an overstatement on a day when dollar leveraged US industrials are beating earnings by 50-100% and PPS are jumping 8-12%.
I feel stress in your anxious postings (I see over a hundred of yours today). Anxious especially when you missed silver (and the stock market also) to bet big on gold (gold plus 28% last 12 mo. silver plus 158%-WSJ)
Oh, and AGQ 2x silver (paper yeas, bit I like it too) plus 430%. FOUR HUNDRED THIRTY PERCENT.
Oh! One more hilarious thought. Vote for Ron Paul. Remember that the website where you've logged 7,000 posts? He'll put the shit in order. That is, his way, his solutions will crash PMs. LOL
I enjoy the misery of jackasses.
Wow, you literally have no idea what you are talking about, or who you are talking to. I never bet big on gold, you moron. I have some 5000 posts over the course of 4 years at RPF, and if you think RP can turn things around without instituting a gold standard (by definition skyrocketing the price of gold in terms of dollars), then you're a fucking moron. Which you are.
I think you know it.
Strange how so many of these sockpuppets seem to know about your posting history on another website. Puppet shows are fun!
It's pretty damned creepy, too, when you think about it. Cyberstalking.
I'm tellin' ya. Bunch of homos.
Bitches love me. Even gay bitches.
It must have something to do with them always calling for a top.
LOL. He really really wants mosley in a gimp suit.
Nope, he wants to be the gimp.
Weak people latch on to strong ones. That's the way some people are.
I think you need to be renamed...
Long Yawn Silver
your arguments are tired and make me sleepy.
Now THAT was funny!
LJS is somewhat better than his old screen name, william the bastard. As if we can't recognize someone's idiotic ramblings!
why are we using msm outlook to support any of our views here?? these are the very medial outlets we scoff at
I don't recall anyone ever scoffing at Reuters. Not that that means anything one way or the other.
Reuters, I scoff in your general direction. Ptwaa!
yeah, thomson reuters is big, and very international. amazing, really. quite focused on humanitarian problems, NGO stuff, Red Cross, UN, and reuters often takes one, in a few mouse clicks, to someone on the ground, wherever. i put it in a class by itself, but it's reuters, and it's MSM.
in japan, they have covered the people's needs and some of the reactor and seawater run-in stuff. still, i think that if a person were concerned about japanese children's health, s/he might find reuters worth rooting around in.
Hahaha. reuter rooter, BiCHeZ!
don't recall anyone ever scoffing at Reuters
don't recall anyone ever scoffing at Reuters
When then it's fucking ironclad offical.
I think you know how stupid you are, but you are powerless to stop yourself from acting in an embarrassing manner. Likely due to drugs.
Never underestimate the power of sheer stupidity.
Still lots of mainstream angst over the rise in the price of gold, and summarily written off as a risky investment.
No inflation-adjusted charts over the long term analysis, or log scale charts at all. Tsk Tsk
I can appreciate your own angst at the general angst about the PMs.
But, I don't see it that way. When NPR at noon tells us the silver and gold prices along with the other indices I'll be worried.
However!! I do like Richard Russell and this article by Peter Brimelow about said guru is worth a read. Russell is becoming apprehensive and that's a cause for further apprehension.
A tasty morsel from the article:
Russell is a long-time gold bug, but for traditional inflationary reasons. He resisted the new argument, developed by writers associated with Bill Murphy’s Le Metropole Cafe website, that the gold price is manipulated by a Washington-Wall Street alliance. ( See Sept. 28, 2009 column. )
But in his last post last week, on Thursday, Russell wrote:
“The desperate battle to keep gold below 1500 continues. I watched the erratic action of gold near yesterday’s close. I’m fascinated to see whether June gold can close above 1500 or whether the anti-gold contingent can manage to knock gold down (again) below 1500. The action is now so blatant that it literally screams of manipulation. At its high yesterday, June gold sold at 1506.50. At yesterday’s close, June gold was trading at 1498.10. It’s almost embarrassing to watch the action. What we’re seeing is the anti-gold crowd and the manipulators vs. the great primary trend of gold.”
“The battle about gold closing above 1500 is that once above 1500, technically gold will be on its way to 2,000. And from there 5,000 will be the target…from the anti-gold crowd’s standpoint, gold must be held (on a closing basis) below 1500.”
Spot gold reached $1515 early Monday morning.
The motive for manipulation, Russell argues, can be traced back to the U.S. Federal Reserve’s problems in financing U.S. government debt. ( See April 4 column. ) He writes:
“When you think about it, it’s no wonder that Wall Street and the Fed hate gold. Gold exists outside the system. The Fed can’t manipulate or create gold the way they do Federal Reserve Notes. When gold rises, as it has been doing, it hoists a red flag over Wall Street, the Fed, and the economy….All the lies, corruption, and secrets of the Fed and the politicians can’t erase the dire message of gold.
Russell prophesies apocalyptically:
“The gold-bears will be defeated. It’s only a matter of time…We’re moving nearer and nearer to the edge of the hurricane. I can feel it in my bones…I can feel them caressing my face -- the early breezes. They are blowing gently and hinting of the forthcoming gold hurricane that will sweep across the US and the planet with all the force and power that was seen when gold was first discovered at Sutter’s Creek during the California gold rush of 1849. The gold rush of the 2000s is in the wings.”
This is interesting. Reuters is controlled by the Rothschilds from what I understand. Who knows maybe its central banker reverse psychology.
"Our only alternative is to exchange fiat for PMs. To do anything else would only encourage them." -- Anonymous
Silver appears to have peaked. Do not be left holding the bag. Tmoseley and Akak would love nothing more than for you to pump up the price for them. Do not be that bigger fool.
That's right, keep kicking the desperate drowning passengers away from the half-empty lifeboat, you sociopath --- or even worse, trying to kick those who are already in it out of the lifeboat. We'll keep laughing at you even as we condemn you.
NOBODY here needs, or wants, your malicious and disingenuous "help", so fuck off.
If you pump the price hard enough, maybe you will be able to pass off that giant silver bag in your hands.
The only "pumper" here is you, with your wild and hysterical fearmongering designed to shake physical silver loose from weak hands.
"I troll, I troll, it's off to work (for JPM) I go!"
Nice work if you can get it.
Where the hell do these masochistic trolls come from?
Do they enjoy the beat-down so much?
They come here after putting 20 rubber bands on their nuts and talk trash about whatever the consensus is discussing.
I've heard of internet porn but this is pushing the envelope.
Tips: tips [ at ] zerohedge.com
General: info [ at ] zerohedge.com
Legal: legal [ at ] zerohedge.com
Advertising: ads [ at ] zerohedge.com
Abuse/Complaints: abuse [ at ] zerohedge.com
Advertise With Us
Make sure to read our "How To [Read/Tip Off] Zero Hedge Without Attracting The Interest Of [Human Resources/The Treasury/Black Helicopters]" Guide
How to report offensive comments
Notice on Racial Discrimination.