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As Gold Hits An All Time High $1,432.57, Doug Kass May Need To Revise His "25% Lower" Call

Tyler Durden's picture


Just in time for silver to catch a breather, gold steps in, and hits a fresh all time high of $1,432.57. Alas since this price action is merely stragglers loading up as a semi-mute Cramer, who suddenly has no 100x fwd P/E momentum stocks to pitch, goes back to pushing gold. As such the spike is likely rather temporary (for now).

At least for those who care, and keep score, uber-market timer Doug Kass may have just burned his last ounce of credibility. As a reminder this is what we said back on December 21:

Last night Doug Kass appeared on CNBC's Fast Money and
caught the attention of the few who were watching the show with his
gloomy prediction that gold would drop by 25% in the next year. As we noted last night, Kass' "thesis" was nothing more than a recap of the bearish half of the "All that glitters"
letter released by Oaktree's Chairman Howard Marks, and not even a
mention of the bullish section of the letter. That's fine. In fact, we
welcomed this development as it at least partially offset the bullish
sentiment on gold espoused by Kass' partner at The Street Jim Cramer,
whose glowing recommendation of gold has had us very concerned about the
price action in the precious metal into year end: after all there is no
surer kiss of death that Cramer liking something. That said, as for Mr.
Kass' predictive abilities, we would like to present his prior set of
forecasts, specifically his prediction for 2010 issued a year ago almost
to the day. With a predictive "hit rate" of about 25%, it is rather
safe to assume that gold's path to $2,000 and higher is probably quite


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Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:02 | 1008375 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

not bad for a barbarous relic

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:19 | 1008482 Joe Grannville
Joe Grannville's picture

I'm not making a move until Turd weighs in.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:18 | 1008485 Fredd00
Fredd00's picture

Blythe is finished bitchezzz! (and a bitch herself)

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:06 | 1008792 Roger Knights
Roger Knights's picture

The relic rocks!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:19 | 1008491 Math Man
Math Man's picture

Wow.  Holy sh*t.  We broke the previous high by 7c!


Better keep buying.  It's going to the moon!

Never mind that the ETFs have completely disappeared from the scene and now sell gold, and the the Chinese - who everyone is relying on for Gold demand in the absence of the ETFs - keep tightening!

Keep buying silver too!  It's going to the moon!

Never mind that silver has run from $18 to $34 in a few months and its causing producers to hedge and pushing down the back end of the curve, leading to backwardation.

Lease rates are too high to incent any one to do anything about it, so the backwardation remains.

See you back at $1000 for gold and below $20 for Silver!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:23 | 1008508 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

Math Man-


Are you bullish the Zimbabwe dollar?  I hear their stocks are looking solid.


The irony was funny for 10seconds, now you are just boring.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:35 | 1008601 luk427
Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:32 | 1008574 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Yes, and those records keep breaking.  But you don't understand this.  You are in shock, as your knife catching habit has left you with bloody stumps where your arms once were.

And you literally know nothing about backwardation or hedging, so shut up about it.

Face it, dumbass.  You have no credibility here, not even the benefit of the doubt.  Time for a new name.  

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:38 | 1008616 Math Man
Math Man's picture

So how does one get credibility around here?

Oh yeah that's right, by religiously belieiving conspiracy thoeories and placing 95% of your savings in one asset. 

When are you guys going to learn that never works.  Dot.coms, tulips, the housing market....

They all ended the same way.  Why should PMs be any different?


Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:43 | 1008640 luk427
luk427's picture

Credibility is earned over time, never given or bought.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:44 | 1008649 Harmonious_Diss...
Harmonious_Dissonance's picture

Good question. So all your Beach House doosch nozzle neighbors are double-long with PM's?? What about your family? They where too stupid to abort you, but where they smart enough to own PM's??  What percentage of people own PM's compared to, say, the percentage owning dot-com, tulips, ect>?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:56 | 1008713 Hearst
Hearst's picture

I suspect it's time to I gnore T he F ucking T roll like Meth Man



Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:55 | 1008704 tmosley
tmosley's picture

How does one gain credibility?

You can start by being right.  Preferably for years on end.  Highly public calls.  

Oh, and stop bragging about your possessions.  Only brag about your portfolio.  Disclose the whole thing, preferably by percentage.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:03 | 1008768 BigJim
BigJim's picture

He's told us he's bought well over 100 contracts SLV July @ $26. I've pointed out that SLV is not the same thing as silver, but he doesn't believe such 'conspiracy theories'

We shall see.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:07 | 1008805 Math Man
Math Man's picture

So if it's not the same thing, short it against your physical....

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:11 | 1008829 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Despite the fact that no-one EVER wants to agree with a troll, this IS a good strategy.  One which I pointed out some time ago.  I don't do it personally, as I fear that the rules will be changed, plus I don't really care to fund a margin account, preferring to simply buy more silver.  I might change my tune if I can see the collapse of SLV coming.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:30 | 1009189 DoctoRx
DoctoRx's picture

Tmosley:  The collapse will come like a thief in the night.  They will allow no preparation.  TPTB and their allies will get the word in advance.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:38 | 1009212 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Exactly.  The point is that with a short, you get your money up front, and that should allow you to buy physical.  In practice, it doesn't work that way for the individual investor.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:20 | 1008876 BigJim
BigJim's picture

I'm considering it. Given the carry costs, and the uncertain timeline, I'm not yet convinced it's a better route to go than just buying more silver.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:57 | 1008724 Johnny Lawrence
Johnny Lawrence's picture

Math Man,

I agree with not putting 95% of your savings in one asset.  However, I'd like to see the overall allocation that households have to precious metals in comparison to equities and real estate.

I'd also urinate on you.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:35 | 1008961 Blythes Master
Blythes Master's picture



Agreed. Bad at math, man has zip cred.


When he figures out that his hedging, lease rate jibberish is all folly, and PM's will revert back to their 6000 year old role of real money, He'll still be bad at math, man.



Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:57 | 1008726 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

A track record better than Magic 8-Ball would be good for starters.

Backing up actual performance with some kind of  factual insight that acknowledges real-world fundimentals might help get you some credibility also.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:34 | 1008827 BigJim
BigJim's picture

I've got some news for you. Most speculators get rich by concentrating on relatively few asset classes. Diversification is for preserving wealth, not making it.

Comparing gold/silver with tulips, dot coms, and overpriced houses shows a remarkable ignorance of monetary history. Gold and silver have been valued for thousands of years. Fiat currencies? They all ended the same way. Why should the USD be any different?

As for dismissing price manipulation by TPTB as a 'conspiracy theory' - did you read the GATA article I posted for you? If so, then please present us your counterarguments against it; if not - then fuck off, troll.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:36 | 1008966 rex-lacrymarum
rex-lacrymarum's picture

Gold fundamentals remain bullish:

it is therefore probably not a good idea to fight a technical breakout.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:00 | 1009090 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

"When are you guys going to learn that [placing 95% of your savings in one asset] never works."

This has got to be one of the most ignorant investing remarks I've ever heard.

It's the mindset of two classes of people: (1) those who watch charts all day, and (2) those who make commissions on securities sales, i.e. stockbrokers, etc.

He mentions dot.coms.  Putting 95% of your money in dot.coms was not putting 95% in one asset since was an asset class.  If you carefully studied company fundamentals (rather than looking at charts all day) putting 95% in one company you studied well could have been a fantastic wave ride while keeping the broader spectrum in sight.

He mentions Tulips.  Tulips was of course a massive fraud.  Only those who ignored daily price movements (charts of that time) and studied the underlying fundamentals saw it was a fraud and stayed out.  Daily price movement watchers were sucked in and lost everything.

He mentions housing.  Putting 95% in housing was not putting 95% in one asset since housing is an asset class.  If you carefully studied company fundamentals (rather than looking at charts all day) putting 95% in one company you studied well could have been a fantastic wave ride while keeping the broader housing spectrum in sight.

Silver & gold are market fundamentals plays, fundamentals are incredibly strong for those who understand the underlying fundamentals, but silver & gold look like bubbles to those merely looking at daily price movements not understanding the underlying fundamentals ...or ignoring the underlying fundamentas because they have an anti-PM bias.

Wed, 03/02/2011 - 00:45 | 1010278 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Underlying fundamentals:

1. The Fed is STILL printing money (QE, call it what you will!), check.

2. The US Govt (at all levels) has NOT engaged in serious spending cuts, check.

3. Physical commodities are ALL rising in price, check.

4. NO ONE has even been arrested for mortgage fraud(s), check.

5. Housing prices have NOT bottomed out yet, check.

6. ME/NA countries are unstable (well, even more than usual), check.

7. The Chinese are building ghost cities, waiting for their real estate mania to pop, check.

8. Virtually no one in the USA is buying Gold/Silver (in fact, Cash4Gold is STILL in business!), check.

9. The Decepticrats and Republicons are heading into political gridlock, check.

10. HFT robots are STILL running the market(s) with no real oversight, check.

Yet somehow, we should ignore all these indicators, buy stocks/bonds and believe Gold/Silver are gonna fall in price??

I was born in the morning, but it was NOT this morning!


Tue, 03/01/2011 - 19:28 | 1009340 strannick
strannick's picture

You forgot the US$ when listing your ponzit schemes. Gold is what you measure the ponzis against.

'Religiously believing the conspiracy theories' has got gold decade-long double digit gains and no top in sight. I'll take that over the balanced diversifying bet-hedging bed-wetters anyday.

Dooouggiee Kassss, come out to playeeyaaa...

 MathMan is the rodeo clown for bulls to chase around. He should write John Nadler a supportive letter as his rationalizations get ever more shrill and high pitched with gold's relentless march.

'When you buy gold, you're betting against every central bank in the world'.

Dont just whine about Obama screwing up, bet on it by buying gold!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:32 | 1008579 DiverCity
DiverCity's picture

Man of Math, who knows if gold's going to the moon?  I don't.  But you likewise don't know if it's going to $1,000 either.  ETF liquidation, by the way, can just as easily be explained as holders of size redeeming paper for physical.  And do you really believe that Chinese citizens or especially the Chinese CB have been buying gold as a hedge against yuan depreciation?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:34 | 1008582 Harmonious_Diss...
Harmonious_Dissonance's picture

Gee, Meth Man, it just keeps proving you wrong. Perhaps tomorrow there will be a pullback. So what do you do for work? Are you employed? You seem really knowledgeable, so I was wondering from where do you hail?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:35 | 1008593 Harmonious_Diss...
Harmonious_Dissonance's picture

China can tighten until their ass makes diamonds, it wont matter. People buy with SAVINGS. Every hear of that word: SAVINGS? Prob, you don't know what it means....

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:58 | 1008727 DosZap
DosZap's picture

China,and India know all about paper currencies.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:35 | 1008597 Johrny Bravo
Johrny Bravo's picture

Meth boy === Louzzzzer

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:38 | 1008611 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

How can you be so stupid as to not understand that even as the ETFs sell and the spot of gold/silver goes up that is even MORE BULLISH?  They can sell and still not suppress the price valued in magical green paper.

Silver also ran from $4 to $8 to $16 to $32 and it's still going higher.


Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:42 | 1008645 Math Man
Math Man's picture

Oh yeah, that is right.  I totally forgot.

Everything is bullish for PMs on Zerohedge.

Even selling.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:47 | 1008676 Harmonious_Diss...
Harmonious_Dissonance's picture

So what are you bullish on, there, Mr. Meth?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:52 | 1008684 Math Man
Math Man's picture

Merchant Power. 

And PM puts.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:54 | 1008700 Harmonious_Diss...
Harmonious_Dissonance's picture

what about GEN? I saw GEN in their first, lol!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:16 | 1008854 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

The big problem with you, Math Man (johnny, master, whoever you call yourself today) is that you're wrong until you're right.  Please continue to forecast your opinion that PM is going down.  We all appreciate that.  But you have ZERO credibility to date, because you have not been right and you're calling a group of people stupid who are MAKING MONEY HAND OVER FIST. 

Some of us will take profits, some of us will hold until armageddon.  But as long as metal goes up, and currencies go down, you are still wrong.  Or at the very least, giving you the benefit of the doubt, you aren't right YET.  You may be making money in the markets, and if so, good for you.  But that doesn't mean bugs are missing out on earnings.  Even you can't deny it's been a helluva run.  Even if silver did go to 20, (really doubt it) has it ever occurred to you that most of the people you're bitching at would average out JUST FUCKING FINE?  The bugs may be wrong (I personally have bet a lot that we aren't) someday, but as of today, ESPECIALLY today, we are still right, and you are still wrong. 

Get it?  Or are you just a troll?  I guess I already know the answer, so I don't know why I wasted five minutes of my time that could have been better spent printing rifle targets with your name and avatar on them.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:40 | 1008990 Blythes Master
Blythes Master's picture




Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:43 | 1009013 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

What do you shoot it out of?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:35 | 1009204 Blythes Master
Blythes Master's picture




The Judge.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 21:22 | 1009727 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

The Taurus Judge is a fine gun.  Got one of them myself.

Those .410 slugs do some damage.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:23 | 1008894 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

How's that working out for you?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:50 | 1008685 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

The ETFs are actually redeeming their shares for physical so it's not actually selling they are basically being sucked dry of all their underlying asset value for a song.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:01 | 1008742 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Yep,the Chinese have figured out a way to get even with Bernank bucks.On both metals.

ETF heaven.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:50 | 1008686 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture


Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:03 | 1008772 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

PMs have been in a bull market for 10 years now.  Are there signs of froth?  Let's see:  Out of control money printing?  Check.  Major worldwide conflicts?  Check.  Banking collapse?  Check.  Fraud in the metals markets?  Check... 

I could keep going, but you should get the point.  Can you name one fundimental that points toward an imminent PM drop?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:03 | 1008778 Johrny Bravo
Johrny Bravo's picture

Major douche alert....

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:11 | 1009121 c-rev with a twist
c-rev with a twist's picture

I think I just threw up in your mouth again.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:38 | 1008612 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Why wait for $1000?   Let's meet at $1500, it will be much sooner

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:45 | 1009021 Blythes Master
Blythes Master's picture



Another confiscatory RUMOR.




You'd just hand over your metals like some mangina, or something?



Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:53 | 1009057 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Nope, not one OUNCE, just the fact these bastards will do anything for anyone but us, I cannot see them allowing common folks being prudent enouh to snag something that went 10x's it's starting value,looking out for #1 is not on their radar.

$1k, to $10k??......they will screw us, one way or the other if it gets there.

Wed, 03/02/2011 - 00:52 | 1010290 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

I'm of the opinion that the Police, and our other fine, "public servants", will be leading the looting, once their Govt paychecks start bouncing.  Good luck confiscating anything when the IRS agents are being gunned down in Washington DC!

Wed, 03/02/2011 - 01:00 | 1010305 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

If they will give me a guided tour of Ft. Knox (and let me bring along my test equipment) I'll let them have the 2 ounces I have!  

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:05 | 1008787 Silver Pullet
Silver Pullet's picture

Never mind that silver has run from $18 to $34 in a few months...

That must be the 10th time I read that in the last 2 days.

At least your next post will be slightly different...

Never mind that silver has run from $18 to $35 in a few months...

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 21:12 | 1009685 Richard Head
Richard Head's picture

Aren't you gonna recite how much it costs to "dig out of the ground"?

Wed, 03/02/2011 - 01:15 | 1010321 Attitude_Check
Attitude_Check's picture

Your right the fact that Gold is now clearly displacing the $ as safe-haven is irrelevent (check the USDX abd Gold during the last few weeks of Middle east unrest).

Certainly the recent moon-shot for Silver is not based on any fundamentals (like $ devaluation, and the Silver COMEX backwardation which based on your comment you do not really understand) so it should retrace quickly (unlike Apple or Netflix)

Do you realize how innane and foolish you sound. Do you even know how to add?

Wed, 03/02/2011 - 01:14 | 1010322 Attitude_Check
Attitude_Check's picture


Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:22 | 1008505 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

Good interview with Elisabeth Warren,^DJI,^GSPC,SPY,LQD

some of it is trickeing to 'Main Stream Media'

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:29 | 1008928 WilliamShatner
WilliamShatner's picture


Another brother, this one is a bit more kooky and entertaining.


Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:47 | 1008285 The Nagus
The Nagus's picture

My lobes are tingling.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:49 | 1008296 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

You allowed your female to wear clothing and to run the Ferengi economy! Traitor!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:46 | 1008286 Harmonious_Diss...
Harmonious_Dissonance's picture

Doug Kass can go take a Golden Shower.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:37 | 1008602 Beanie Baby Bubble
Beanie Baby Bubble's picture


Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:47 | 1008289 99er
Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:48 | 1008294 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Can I get a nominal, here?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:50 | 1008301 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture


I just traded up some silver Maples for some gold at the coin shop. I'm already making money on it.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:51 | 1008305 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Lots and lots and lots of resistance @ 34.5.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:35 | 1008598 spartan117
spartan117's picture

Resistence is futile.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:05 | 1008797 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Speaking of which - have you checked out Harvey Organ today... The COMEX is looking pretty shakey 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:53 | 1008313 tahoebumsmith
tahoebumsmith's picture

Now that our economic warriors are backed into a corner, the real economy is calling them out to play.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:53 | 1008315 unwashedmass
unwashedmass's picture


to put the cherry on the cake, i got a few little pocket rockets that seem to be rejoicing that naked shorting into the ground is over...

what three buck stock goes up .77 in one day?

Maybe one that JPM "forgot" they shorted, without having shares?


Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:56 | 1008324 jus_lite_reading
jus_lite_reading's picture

Another know it all CNBS/Whore Street/Banker who's fucked ten ways to infinium. Gold to $5000/oz by EOY... if we get that far. The shit is real, as they say.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:56 | 1008330 lieutenantjohnchard
lieutenantjohnchard's picture

poor doug, he was born with a cotton fiat frn in his mouth.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:58 | 1008351 Stroke
Stroke's picture

Good to see kass being his ol' windbag self

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:00 | 1008356 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

Looks like some red on the markets... oil fears, or maybe they didn't care for Unkle Ben's non-answer to the question of what happens when he exits the market?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:59 | 1008357 The Axe
The Axe's picture

More crowded then a Bangladesh ferry!!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:08 | 1008405 lieutenantjohnchard
lieutenantjohnchard's picture

and bucking like a wild bronco to kick off as many people as possible as it goes up.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:59 | 1008358 reader2010
reader2010's picture

Where is the Mad Man? I need his advice now more than ever.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:14 | 1008410 plocequ1
plocequ1's picture

You mean Cramer? I just clicked his Ad to the left about 137 times trying to wake him up. I hope hes ok

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:05 | 1008391 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

The melt-up is now pervasive. Everything is going to melt/grind up. Last gasp of the sell side, supply-side monsterosity. Chug chug and then it's over the top and down the hill for a hairy, scary ride. totally serious. The incremental gain in quality of life (even as it is now defined) is minimal. and the resultant stress has brought us where we are today.

Crack-up and boom.

Silver is the thing to be in. Gold is going to take a hit.


Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:06 | 1008396 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

Why does gold take the hit?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:20 | 1008878 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Dr. P, not a scientific or technical thesis. Just a very strong instinct. Gold (Sun) is unstable (astrophysics is telling us that). I see a strong correlation. Dark times, Silver (Luna) will shine brighter.

Fractal view.


Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:16 | 1009133 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Sounds more like Astrology,

Either way, DARK times no matter what the metal.

Kind of like food, you have a ton, but no way to cook it, so therefore, you still starve.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 20:15 | 1009507 bruinjoe93
bruinjoe93's picture

You should short gold if you think it is going to take a hit. I think it would be a bad decision, though.  Gold wants to go higher.  It broke a very strong over head resistence with strength.  Do you want to stand in front of a mack truck?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:06 | 1008393 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Coins are all nearly all over 1500 so it's easy to see where it's going.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:05 | 1008394 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Hey Gold Bugs ! :-) Havin' a sunny day? See ya at the after party!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:09 | 1008416 lieutenantjohnchard
lieutenantjohnchard's picture

yes, exercizing my right to be my own central bank with gold and silver in the vaults.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:26 | 1008535 What_Me_Worry
What_Me_Worry's picture

Paper bugs have probably gotten all the sun they can handle, at this point.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:57 | 1008723 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Paper bugs eating mashed potatoes tonight :-)


Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:10 | 1008425 RmcAZ
RmcAZ's picture

Umm... since when did Apmex start charging a $46 dollar premium to buy a single Gold Eagle with a Credit Card vs. Check or wire?

Time to find an alternative place to buy...

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:20 | 1008496 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Most dealers don't even accept CCs because the fees exceed their margins. I've yet to see one that does so without passing the fee onto the buyer.

Besides, you should avoid buying on margin. ;-)

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:20 | 1008501 Cow
Cow's picture

about 3%

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:23 | 1008510 Strider52
Strider52's picture

Instant Gratification costs more. Apmex has to pay a small percentage back to the banks if you use CC's.

 Dang, can we get 10 more bucks on the spot gold price? I have been waiting since Dec 7 to see my 2-bagger. That happens to me at $1440. I'm sure if not today, by end-of-week I can finally have that giant candy bar I promised meself when I double-up.

Wed, 03/02/2011 - 01:05 | 1010311 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Your avatar already looks DDoubled up! :>D

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:31 | 1008564 Joe Sixpack
Joe Sixpack's picture

Nothing unusual there:

Premium is more like $71 (5%).

4.5-5% premiums all last year and so far this year.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:31 | 1008568 kadriana288
kadriana288's picture

Yesterday morning is when I noticed the change with two pricing options depending on type of payment.

Wed, 03/02/2011 - 01:07 | 1010314 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

As a dealer with a credit card merchant account, I have been told that I cannot charge a premium to people wanting to use credit cards.   The "rules" don't allow it and the merchant can lose his merchant account for specific cards.   Wonder if APMEX falls under the "rules"?   If you are a buyer you might get on the phone and ask them...

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:12 | 1008821 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

I'll take what is 3% of current spot price for 200 Alex.

Dealers are charging an extra 3% based on the CC fees.   That fee you pay for Visa/MC/Diner's convenience?  It's no longer baked in the cake.

What blows me away is looking at that same set of prices and wondering what IDIOT will put $150K in gold purchases on a credit card.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:24 | 1009160 DosZap
DosZap's picture

I bought a ton from them first part of the year.

Finally did some checking, and between their 3 tier screw you, and adding to SPOT, before the prems were set, that did it for me.

I wrote the BIG dog, and let him know how he could save my business,. and a lot of reply( I had spent quite a wad).

Now I beat their prices easily, and frt is less, or same.

Don't need CC to buy, because they do not take them.

I wire funds, and product is in my hands within 2 days.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:15 | 1008454 saulysw
saulysw's picture

I eat my gold -- yummy!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:17 | 1008479 ciscokid
ciscokid's picture

Ok we are over the 34.52 mark now.

35 here we come.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:19 | 1008495 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

Kinda makes you feel giddy,and warm all over. Sure glad you can eat it too.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:25 | 1008527 ArkOmen1
ArkOmen1's picture

Silver and gold, silver and gold...
Everyone wishes for silver and gold...
How do measure its worth?
Just by the pleasure it gives here on Earth!

Silver and gold, silver and gold...
Mean so much more when I see...
Silver and gold decorations, on every Christmas tree!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:23 | 1009153 pacu44
pacu44's picture


Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:29 | 1008557 99er
99er's picture


The Long Bond catches a bid.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:34 | 1008590 Can2001
Can2001's picture

Is there any possibility to send an e-mail to TD, ZH or any other blogger? ty guys

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:39 | 1008621 Harmonious_Diss...
Harmonious_Dissonance's picture

Why YES! It just so happens:


Please be very generous!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:35 | 1008592 israhole
israhole's picture

"Dougie" Kass is an uber drunk.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:35 | 1008596 lieutenantjohnchard
lieutenantjohnchard's picture

would it were that we all mark to market our gold and silver like the italians.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:55 | 1008707 adonisdemilo
adonisdemilo's picture

math man, sorry i missed it, which planet did you say you were from?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:57 | 1008717 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

It's paper covers rock

Scissors cut paper

Rock crushes scissors......


But Gold will outlast 'em: Scissors rust, rocks turn to sand, paper turns to dust........Gold still shines out like a piece of the golden sun. 



Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:58 | 1008721 99er
99er's picture


The gift that keeps on giving.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:02 | 1008758 taint
taint's picture

EE pounds tomorrow sometime...sounds like a BTFD moment?   

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:05 | 1008790 RED BARRON
RED BARRON's picture

Last time silver was over $34.00 Canadians were lined up out in sub-zero freezing temperature with blowing winds standing in line around banks in Toronto to buy one ounce bars of silver.

When Nazz was 48,000 in 2000 Chinse delivery boys wanted to know what stock to buy.  Time to order chinese and check that mania indicator.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:13 | 1008833 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

>> Last time silver was over $34.00 Canadians were lined up out in sub-zero freezing temperature with blowing winds standing in line around banks in Toronto to buy one ounce bars of silver.


Adjusted for inflation that would be around $100 an ounce.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 23:06 | 1010048 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Last time you said it was going to go down, it went up.

You see lines outside of silver shops?  Hardly even a mention on TV.

STFU, loser boy.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:05 | 1008796 duncecap rack
duncecap rack's picture

Does anyone know how much silver is to be delivered? I was wondering if part of the rise in silver prices had to do with shorts scrambling to find silver to deliver.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:11 | 1008823 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

>25 million Oz according to Harvey Organ.


Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:15 | 1008842 duncecap rack
duncecap rack's picture

Thanks. Is that enough to cause a scramble for physical? I thought there was something like 100 mil. ozs. in comex warehouses. Are my numbers way off?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:45 | 1009017 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

How much real, deliverable Ag the COMEX actually has on hand is the crux of the whole biscuit.

Apparently, the COMEX has been aggressively attempting to settle delivery contracts with cash rather than actually cough-up the real deal, but this delivery month could be the game changer.  I guess we'll just have to wait and see how much metal they can actually scrounge up.  If they can't meet the deliveries - hold on to your stack!

Harvey's summaries are priceless regarding the ins and outs of the COMEX inventories.  I suggest going over there and browsing the last three days action or so.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:58 | 1009077 duncecap rack
duncecap rack's picture

Thanks very much for the answers I will check it out.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:36 | 1008958 hotkarlandthecl...
hotkarlandtheclevelandsteamers's picture

Wow his gold short matched up with his GM long call is not working out to well.  Poor Mr. Kass.

Sat, 03/05/2011 - 17:45 | 1008987 Clapham Junction
Clapham Junction's picture


Tue, 03/01/2011 - 20:33 | 1009562 u must b sitting
u must b sitting's picture

he may eventually be right ....

but just from a much higher number   :)

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 22:34 | 1009944 Rome is burining
Rome is burining's picture

Consipracy theory or fact?

log onto and read for a few weeks.  Dig into their archives.  Go and see what Mr. Muprhy and Powell have dug up.  Our government has perverted the PM markets for way too long.  Now thanks to rational people, the world over, demanding physical delivery, their game is coming to an end.  The implications will change world monetary policy.  Long PMs and overweight for the last 10 years and grinning ear to ear.

Wed, 03/02/2011 - 07:11 | 1010574 jbc77
jbc77's picture

I just keep buying. Every paycheck I get I make a purchase of both physical gold and silver. I'm expecting a delivery today from Kitco. Been buying since mid-2009 and I will continue to do so. Worst case scenario is that my only kid ends of getting my PM hoard when I die. I would actually like my employer to start paying me in gold and silver bullion.

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