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Gold Plunges; Paulson Liquidation Speculation Abounds Again As Fund Rumored To Be Down $1 Billion For The Day
There are some crocodile tears over at the 50th floor of 1251 Avenue of the Americas this morning. With a holding of 168 million shares of BAC and 506 million in Citi, Paulson and Co. is down nearly $300 million on just its top two positions alone. When one adds the other top ten positions, which include $3.5 billion worth of GLD, as well as massive positions in ANG, CMCSA, STI, TRE, RIO, BSC, COF, WFC, MGM and many others, it is not surprising that the market is rife with rumors that the once vaunted bearish and now very much bullish (who according to Goldman's carefully crafted settlement press release yesterday, only achieved his subprime-related wealth due to prospectus misrepresentations by Goldman, which is now permanently in the public record) is down about $1 billion for the day so far. Of course, on a NAV of $31 billion this is not all that big, but likely will not help with the recent surge in redemption requests.... Or the need for liquidations. Gold is plunging, and according to market rumors the primary culprit is once again JP, whose GLD holdings that are merely a type of share class (which needs to be indexed lower as the AUM drops) are getting liquidated, pushing spot far lower.
As a reminder here are Paulsons & Co.'s recent holdings:
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Right, I got that from the original post. My question, though, was who around here is selling? Why would you assume that goldbugs would sell when the spot drops?
I doubt that Gold Bugs would sell their Gold for food, if they where in fact hungry?!
From the fervor that I have witnessed... I seriously doubt some of their abilities to comprehend what is in fact good for them verse what is bad… all in favor of…
OOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOO!!!
AAAaaaAAAaaaAAAaaaAAA!!! Shinny! Me likey the shinny! Must have the shinny… need the shinny…
It is sad, really… but I do my very best to ed-YOU-ma-kate/shun Ya’ll!
Keep it together, man. You're getting way too excited about this.
You are a wonderful one :)
He and Johnny ought to get it on. They are already lubed up.
For what it's worth, I ain't selling an ounce. Never intended to.
This year S&P high 1220 now 1072 change -12.1%
Gold this year high 1255 now 1190 change -5.1%
5 yr S&P 1210 -> 1072 change -11.4%
5 yr gold 420 -> 1190 change +183.3%
any more facts?
Ummm... I'm up like more than 5% on my VXX since yesterday?
That's a fact! I even posted to buy VXX Wednesday night. I'm the shit.
BTW, gold's high was over 1260. That means people were buying physical at over 1300, not 1255 or whatever.
I am up on the day in gold
I am Canadian
Gold is 5% off it's all time high. That's not exactly what I would call "selling low".
Unless I was a moron, of course.
Buy the dipps!
"Buy the dips"
- by the dips
LMAO!!!
Was it good for you too?
Hey moron, gold is 5% off its all time high.
Only paper is being sold, not real Gold.
There is no market difference between the two. And you can not possibly know whether or not this is just positions closing/liquidation or dumping of the physical. Small retail buyers of Gold are nothing compared to institutions and can not move the price. If you believe you can; well you might want to get off the [h]opium. As if anyone gives a shit if some Gold Bug bought 100 oz from its local dealer. Please man; get a grip.
God Love You, Cheeky... But its like talking to a Rock.
I hope You are Feeling Well / Better, Fine Sir.
Kepp up the Fantastic work Bro, PLEASE!
Yes Im fine. Good to see you back, if for nothing else, than for the counter-balance you add to Gold Debate. It was a good time to by gold a year ago; but today is not. It really is like arguing with rocks. And the best thing is the constant repetition of the same arguments I have heard 1000s of times before, while in the same time not taking current market conditions into consideration. But hey; its their money, not mine.
huh?
The debt system is closer to collapse THIS year than last, you yourself are calling for crushing deflation, yet last year was a better time to buy gold?
How the hell do you know that the euro funding lockup won't turn into a fullblown run on paper like say next week? Locking you out of your banks, shutting shit down, going all apocalyptic like Sep 08?
given what we're facing, I think pretty much whenever you can is a good time to buy gold. If you don't like gold, shit buy platinum then.
You need to use your brain, man, you're smarter than this.
If the FRN becomes scarce, it stops being money. Deflation presages revaluation; there's no other way to make the math work.
Yes, come one come all the end is near... Darky has pushed us off the cliff... let's all hold hands and pray!
The Rapture will be upon us soon... the time is near!
Anyone want anything from StarBucks? I am going?
Yes there is. The two things have different prices. If you want *actual* physical, and not merely a piece of paper that *says* you have physical, the exchange ratio isn't 1:1; your'e going to pay a premium that fluctuates with market conditions. Something is only a money substitute when the exchange ratio is a stable 1:1.
Hoarding gold is one thing; trading gold is another one. Institutions/HF dont give a shit whether or not they have physical or paper claim of ownership as long as the trade can be settled in cash [denominated in any currency you wish] traded and hedged via available market instruments. Is that so hard for you to understand. Jesus; arguing with Gold bugs is like arguing with SPX and DOW bulls in 08; a futile task; because " ________ [enter asset] only goes up in price".
Cash? You mean the foundational debt ponzi instrument?
I marvel at the uselessness of it all, but these days are coming to an end.
When you say deflation, you are saying the same thing. The HFs may as well get paid in unicorns.
HFs, leverage, and financial speculation are late-stage growth system artifacts. Supposing you shorted the phonebook in the front month and the next day the market went to 0, how much do you think you'd really walk away with?
I would short GLD to hope to have more FRNs that I could then turn into real GLD.
Institutions/HF don't trade physical. They trade paper. "Physical" means "an actualy, physical piece of gold." It doesn't mean "a piece of paper that someone assures you is redeemable for physical," nor does it mean "an entry in a computer database that someone assures you can be redeemed for physical." It has nothing to do with being a gold bug (I'm not) or imagining gold always goes up in price (I don't). It has to do with the meaning of words. It has to do with understanding the difference between money and a money-substitute, the latter often in the form of fiduciary media, and the fact that the subjective valuations of the two media of exchange can become decoupled, so that the fiduciary medium is no longer a true money substitute. Your assertion that there is no economic difference between paper and physical at the current moment is, therefore, simply not true. Again, this has nothing to do with being a "gold bug." This has to do with the two assets having different market prices. When two monetary instruments (because that is, in the end, why physical and paper are traded at all) have non-identical prices, they are not, by definition, economically equivalent.
Gold Bugs think of gold only in inflationary terms-as power money in fiat paper world. What is happening today is due to gold converting from commodity attitude to "liquid" currency. Gold is a senior currency of last resort. Dollars, euros and gold can go up in a deflationary event. Gold being a small part of a liquidity pinch.
Central banks in europe had to clear their euro squeezes with the International Settlement Bank to get euros. It's trading with FX like Yen, Ruan.
The nice part about gold is that it's rare and can't be inflated. Like the Swissie, it's a more stolid currency.
But in a margin call, gold can be sold off like dollars are doing today.
Lol, that's like saying people who buy bread don't have an impact on the price of wheat. If no-one buys bread, SURPRISE! The price of wheat plummets. If suddenly everyone wants a bread bowl for their soup, then SURPRISE AGAIN, the price goes up.
It's called a MARKET, Cheeky. One person buying 100 oz might not make a difference, but 100,000 buying 100 oz each will. Hell, a thousand people buying 1000 oz of silver each each would strip the inventory out of all the Canadian bullion banks.
Market participants move markets. The people buying the physical stuff aren't selling. They are a black hole at these prices. I know I am, and I now am proud to say that I know TWO other people who are as well. I have yet to hear anyone talking about gold or silver in public.
Yeah; but it wont. Just LPMCL has a daily clearing average volume of 24.7 million ounces [May 2010]. Daily. Not in a year, a week or a month, but in a day. And that is just LPMCL. The only way 100K people buying 100 oz could make a difference tot he price is if they were buying that amount every single day. 10M ounces is nothing when 1 month cumulative volume is 750M.
But OK; you believe in what ever you wish to believe; not my problem. And I'm just gonna stop here with this Gold debate since arguing with you guys is like arguing with the Catholic clergy in the 12th Century.
I think you are missing his point. The figures you state are far in excess of annual gold supply. You are looking at the paper gold market and applying its rules to physical. Can the LMBA deliver what they sell? No. You may say that some buyers never intend to take delivery but that is not the point. They are obligated to deliver everything they sell if the buyer wants it, and you are making the argument that the paper market price is the 'real' price of gold, and the paper gold market is the real gold market.
Clearly the paper market is a leveraged derivative market, not to be confused with the physical gold market. It does not represent the acutal amount of gold available.
No I am not "missing the point". Matter a fact; I probably know "the point" better than you do. And you didnt read [or can not comprehend] my comment. That is not "new" supply that is volume cleared. Can you differentiate between the two or do you need me to draw you a picture.
I have no Idea why you guy constantly try to tell me stuff I know much better than you do and which I knew before you. I dont pull my opinions out of thin air disregarding 90% of data/variables/what-ever.
PS. They need to settle trades, not deliver. There is a difference since, you see, trades can be settled in cash, bonds, stocks, pork bellies, orange juice [in whatever asset you wish] but the actual gold does not need to be delivered. You should really read about this stuff before you try to "put me down" and "teach me about Gold".
I don't put you down or try to teach you, while you cannot post without put-downs. You are too thin-skinned and defensive when challenged, not my problem. Just discussing the topic. If you can't handle replies, why do you post?
So why then do you put people down that you disagree with on occasion?
Pot calling the kettle black.
And Cheeky, that fool has been full of it about gold since day one.
Now he wants to act bearish.
ROFLMAOWYMOMD
I don't put you down, John boy. I do laugh at you, but I thought that was what you were looking for, as a troll. All in fun of course.
My apologies then.
+ fuckin' a million
He trolls, and then gets me lost in a sea of 'here is my ego on display' and I can't even find little Michelle the beautiful flower so I can comment that I looove her sensible posts....so now I am trolling!
Have a nice weekend everyone! Say hi to some Hamptonites for me, I will be "writing my book".
Divide 24.7 million by the 100x leverage that has been admitted by insiders to exist, and yes, 10,000,000 oz will make a HUGE difference. My own calculations lead to a leverage of more like 2-300X. It blows my mind that such leverage can exist, but it certainly seems to.
You make the assumption that these trades go on unlevered, and that each trade is backed 100% by metal. It is probably not true. Indeed, I am so certain of this that I am willing to bet my life savings on it, and have.
But that said, NO-ONE EXPECTS THE GOLDEN INQUISITION!
Nobody expects the golden liquidation either.
That's why it will happen. I hope you got extra strong handles on those bags you're holding.... they're about to get a lot heavier.
There is no market difference between the two.
Wow Cheeky, I never knew you. Now I do.
GLD and SLV trade for a discount to physical so of course there's a difference.
Wow.You.Idiot.
Ok; I am fucking done here. Half of you talk your book or some shit, the other half are just idiots. Note to self; avoid all future gold threads.
What? And leave them all to the tender mercies of Johnny Bravo's inane braggadocio? You're a cruel, cruel man, CB.
I'd leave the gold threads too if I predicted 50000 an ounce before it tanked.
The man has no sense, whatsoever. Now he's pretending he was bearish all along?
A month ago, I couldn't get ONE guy to agree with me that gold was going down.
Now all these people want to act like they knew. Hypocrites and liars.
I'm owed like 50000 unjunks.
Sorry; 50K prediction was solely made by DoChen, Gecko and Chumba who agreed to meet for drinks when that price is achieved. I said nothing of sort; I said 2K when I believed we were in an inflationary environment. And dude, my God, are you an idiot. I basically validate all you said and you still attack me. Go trade some VXX and ETFs you amateur. And my LBMA LPMCL article was solely a description of technicalities behind which I still firmly stand. But FV and MV are two different things.
Cramer was just on and he's calling for $2K gold too.
Should I be worried?
Sell all your gold immediately.
Amateur? HAHAHA!
I guess you wouldn't be changing your mind to "validate what I said" if I was an amateur.
I made more money today than goldbugs made all year. Believe that. That's not amateurish.
If you were really not the guy who said 50000, I'm sorry, but I seem to remember you specifically making a post that said that.
So yeah, I'm sorry if you weren't the 50k guy. Where are all those 50k people now then?
dude; faz, fas and vxx as primary trades are fucking as amateurish as you can get without actually trading DOW or DOW components or top 5 stocks from some POS sector. Go log on to you Schwab and trade that vxx boy; you're going places with that level of sophistication; and by places im thinking bankruptcy.
I dont know where they are; they will comment that is for sure. Drop by later.
Don't worry too much about him, Cheeky. He's a college kid with no money. He's got a pretend portfolio that he's up 1874587456% on because he doesn't count bad trades. He only makes money (up 8% yesterday!).
I see the U. of Texas endowment fund buying 500 million worth just like every other responsible investment management co. I hear GS is "slurping gold and sucking silver" in the Chinese market from an official commie mouthpiece no less. I see the shenanigans that keep our "economy" afloat. I know the gutting of the real economy that the fascist oligarchs have undertaken since the seventies (shows up on those unemployment and lack of purchasing power numbers). I see deflation with the subsequent defaults that implies all the way from housing to muni to "sovereign debt" and then throw in QE to forestall that and we're in for a wild ride.
Am I mistaken here?
I think that gold bugs like me are so in love with our gold because it represents the end of the fascists' power if the dollar's value collapses and the empowerment of "regular" folks again.
Anything else, big mouths?
"I think that gold bugs like me are so in love with our gold because it represents the end of the fascists' power if the dollar's value collapses and the empowerment of "regular" folks again."
All due respect, but it is not the little people like you and me who own all the gold it is the fascist power elites that you speak of who currently own all the gold, banks, military, frn's, silver, platinum, etc...
But they can only spend that stuff once. They can dilute the money supply forever (so they think).
But they can only spend that stuff once. They can dilute the money supply forever (so they think).
oooohhh 60 away from its all time high. Desperate ain't we JL
You sound like that fool Nadler and you're probably him
gold ran from 250 to 1250 - where were you?????????????????????
dont be bitter. alot of people missed the run. at least you are following my posts.
It could have ran from a dollar to a million dollars. That still doesn't mean you buy at a million, or even 900000.
Overvalued is overvalued.
Speculation is speculation.
and a Nadler retard is a Nadler retard
Nadler, you can disguise yourselve with a stupid pirate flag and with JonnyBravo retard name, but we know it's you and nobody here buys your crap.
Clearly all that benzene wafting in from the gulf has affected your thinking.
Your contribution is...
If you can Not argue the Facts! Then make it personal???
I can see why with your superior intellect that you made such quick work of the Facts I posted.
If you want ignore the raft of data around you that supports PMs heading higher as an inevitability, why should I educate you? And it's only personal if you take it that way. Tell you what, if gold isn't trading at 2000 by end of the year, I'll apologize.
I sold (paper gold, not physical).
The best thing I've read about gold recently, IMHO, was a piece somewhere here on ZH explaining how prior to launching QE2 the Fed would love to drive down the price of gold so no one can say they are about to start hyperinflation. Then need to take it down some. They'd love to get it down to < 1000, though I would guess other central banks will be buying at 1100 too much for that to happen.
Also, I don't always agree with the Mad Hedge Fund Trader, but I thought this breakdown from him was pretty good.
$1,165 - Medium term trend support. Gold bounces here the first few times.
$1,107 -50 day moving average, probably holds, but a break signals a more serious pull back
$1,040 - low in the last down move, where the Reserve Bank of India last stepped in as a big buyer.
$873 - 200 day moving average. Bet the ranch. Very unlikely to get there, but the world is a big buyer if it does.
$680 - The 2008 low- Not a chance. We aren't going to get a full blown flight to liquidity we saw in that dreadful year.
Pasted from <http://oilprice.com/Metals/Gold/What-to-do-About-Gold.html>
Oh please do not junk me, my fellow ZH'ers. I do love gold.
With all the bad economic news, Gold should be rising. Instead it falls. Manipulated as usual.
Preach it Brother! Preach it!!
I tried to warn them, I tried to tell them… alas they would Not! listen.
It's overvalued. You could print all the debt in the United States in money and it'd only be worth 1500 an ounce fundamentally. Of course, our money supply is nowhere near that level. THAT is why it is overvalued.
So let me get this straight, you think it should go up when the economic news is good, like it has been for the last year, and you think it should go up when the economic news is bad, like it has been for a month or two?
Okay, so anytime it goes down it's manipulated. Any time it goes up, it's "legitimate."
Hmmm. Nope, does not compute.
I am up on the day in gold
I am Canadian
Pricing pressure for Gold with a floor of $1,100 before the G-20 get involved? And buy too? Protect their own currencies that are under so much pressure?
Resistance levels at $1,100.00 ***** Cough! “BULLSHIT!” Cough!*****
Why wouldn't the BRIC who too this point has been backstopping their holdings with Bulk Gold Purchases buy at $1,100 or even a $1,000?
Well the simplest reason would be that China needs to protect the Yuan...
Russia is not smart enough Not to cut their own nose off to spite their face and we the American Tax Payer will end up bailing Russia out for their over spending on Gold, the Russian fluff account is long been dry.
India? Gold? It’s a cultural thing. The less than are taken by shinny trinkets that have NO! use.
Brazil? They have mines (producing Mines and more they could bring on line in a moment’s notice… Gold is scarce? Obviously not in Brazil!) they don’t care… Not enough to piss off J.P. Morgan…
You're right, paper money is much more useful than gold.
38177_f260.jpg
A most excellent photo, thank you.
Wow, $80 dollars down from the high and all brave deflationists appear saying Gold is an awful investment. Gold and Silver are the best investments you can make in today's environment, period. Do not trust paper. Do not be fooled by all the deflationary talk, it is nonsense. When the money system is based on Fiat Currencies, a deflationary spiral as seen in the Great Depression, is simply impossible in my opinion. They fall apart as confidence is lost and inflate.
Paulson is down Bank stocks, of which the Bank Stocks have a endless supply of money from a 0% Fed Window? and anyone is concerned? Really? Seriously?
The panic run / pressure on Gold has let up... and now the counter offensive... and all those that bought against the Kings wishes will pay the stupid tax.
Can you reconcile for me your comments on an endless supply of money at zero percent with your comments about the pressure on gold letting up? Thanks in advance.
"Can you reconcile for me your comments on an endless supply of money at zero percent with your comments about the pressure on gold letting up? Thanks in advance."
You want me to make you a sandwich?
“Can you reconcile for me your comments on an endless supply of money at zero percent”
http://www.frbdiscountwindow.org/ maybe you are one of the true believers that Ben will run out of paper and ink?
I don’t know but considering you are a Failed Republican with a fragile spine as demonstrated not so long ago… http://www.zerohedge.com/forum/open-letter-tea-party-movement I don’t care for your kind and I can think of nothing more satisfying that your kind being removed from society… far away from Normal People who have the ability to comprehend… Really I just hate you, I would like you and every piece of tainted genetic material you spread to be whipped from my Planet… well we can all have our own lil dreams… mine is seeing you and everyone like you dispatched from here to hell where you belong.
Hey a JW guy!
How a many time they a tell you no drink the sea water?
Hey smart guy, what the difference between a pussy and a cunt?
The answer is a you fuck the one and you a slap the other.
Damn, that's cold blooded.
People that have to change their name... because they can Not stand by what they say... that’s cowardice... not cold.
to paraphrase,
better to stay silent and be thought a dickhead, than to type crap like that and remove all doubt.
I'll admit it. I'm a dickhead. I'll also admit that like two months ago, I was the ONLY deflationist on this site.
Where's that fool akak? Or dumpster?
Or any of the other people that told me gold would be 25000?
Who has been the only deflationist here? Me.
Who's been called a dickhead and junked for it? Me.
All you other people saying you've been deflationists are outright liars.
I mean really. CHEEKY said he was a gold bear?
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!
The guy who predicted a 50000 an ounce price before?
Yeah, that sounds bearish to me.
"I've been talking about delfation and bearish on gold all along."
Yeah, sure you have.
Signed,
A dickhead. (who has been right all along, and been very vocal about it, BTW)
no idea why you're replying to MY post, which was specifically related to the asswipe above who thinks using women's genitalia to make / score a point here is somehow "clever". . .
take your JUNK and go play with it dude.
Johnny..explain to everyone why gold went up 70% during the depression in the US.in the 30s..and at that time we were the biggest creditors in the world...and now we are the biggest debtors...as for gold dropping during 2008..that is because JP MORGAN took over BEAR STEARNS position int he market..and of course dumped it on the cheap to bring down gold and silver...I dont think it will happen this time...yes gold and silver MAY drop..but in the long run ...meaning in next one year..they will sky rocket and out perform all other asset classes..and yes this time is also different because people are now much more astute about both gold silver and the fiat game..you can gamble and wait and buy and sell ..or you can sit tight with your chore position and buy more on dips..that is what I am doing..you never know when they will CLOSE BANKS ..attack IRAN ..DEVALUE THE DOLLAR..end the EURO...CHINA collapses.another FALSE FLAG ATTACK...all it will take is one day,...and then people will sat ..WHAT WAS I THINKING..this is going to be about survival....the ones who gamble will be out..this is going to make the 30s and 70s look like nothing..what you have here is SOVEREIGN DEBT on a mass scale..as well as MONEY PRINTING..it will not end well.the ones with gold and silver and their stocks will fare much better than others....it will not be a pretty world for years to come..
At least you can admit you're a fucking anal attention whore.
Wrong. You've let your ego rule, and it shows.
You took the high road...
BUT!
What's your opinion? buy, sell and / or hold maybe? please feel free to stand for something, anything is better than sitting on the sidelines watching the world go by.
Huh? What the fuck does your running your mouth have to do with the conversation... Name calling? Does your pussy hurt? Need some Midol?
Your contribution to the world is pussy? or cunts? So you are a woman giving it away? Kudos, don’t forget to clean up afterwards… maybe a lil rejuvenation as well to tighten up what got loosened up? No one likes a loose, rattling and / or disfigured Vaa Jay Jay!
So, where do you stand Luigi? Do you think Gold is a buy right now? Are you buying the dipps? Or are you long? Maybe short? whatchya got? What is the play that is in the money? Put your trade out here and let’s have a looksie? It’s not a proprietary trade for a larger storefront is it? Retail in the front SIVs in the back? Do tell? With the immense amount of passion exhibited here today… you must have the correct answer at your finger tips as I am completely fucking incorrect, right?
And as for the slapping, I am not your wife... the whole internet, chartroom tuff guy thing… Speaks volumes... when I mention that I would like to see an entire class of people eradicated from my planet... I mean it, I really hope that the entire fucking republican party base gets rounded up and sent to hell where they belong. I can even explain in the greatest amount of detail why I think they should be sent to hell, what their ignorance has caused the world to suffer... hell is a pass verse the mass corrosion of society inflicted on the world because of their ignorance.
You know the difference between internet tuff guy and chartroom mouth piece? Nothing.
So, once again? What’s the trade that puts us all in the money? A time machine to buy gold at $250 an oz?
Don't drag me into your catfight, Mary.
You want me to make you a sandwich?
No, I want you to answer my question. I see that you can't, and must therefore resort to puerile name-calling, personal attacks and even threats. How mature of you. Perhaps your emotional response is due to your thin skin? Perhaps it is due to having your blatant error pointed out? Is this the part where I'm supposed to man up and threaten you right back? No thanks, I'll just sit here calmly while your head explodes all by itself.
So, how DO you reconcile your endless money with downward pressure on gold? Or don't you?
So you are Pro-Abortion and Anti-small government? or is it Anti-Abortion and Pro-Small Government?
It does Not matter its all Obama's fault... Right? that Commie, Pinko Liberal?!
Stupid people should not breed.
And for the record, the printing machines are rolling right now... on and on and on...
Head explode? not mine, yours would if I had my wish come true.
And for the record, the printing machines are rolling right now... on and on and on...
And how does that end, always?
Ditto ~ not selling
Not only that -- not trading. I don't mess with paper markets.
Unless you mean fiat paper for lead, or seeds, or JB's favorite: canned ham.
Gold/silver: Buy when low, buy more on the dips.
BAC, COF and WFC are getting hit especially hard today... probably more truth to the rumor
I think it may just be a convenient and easily understandable way to 'explain' takedowns in gold.
Price action makes the news. Gold is hammered, let's try and find a reason why.
This in the face of China's largest gold miner shutting their largest mine temporarily.
Its tooconvenient to use Paulson as an excuse for a ~$20 drop in Nymex futures RIGHT at the NYMEX open. Can Paulson ONLY trade in the US?
The manipulation is getting even more in the face. How about that GS 'punitive' settlement. That has to hurt the bottom line.
Exactly; if it's all Paulson, how do they explain silver getting the identical treatment - to the second. It's a quiet market - Da Boyz are playing.
It's also Friday and there were three close Globex closes Tue-Thurs - I've never yet seen it make four.
When you see 3 consecutive tight closes - buckle up.
Deacon,
Correct me if i'm not mistaken but isn't that(Painter) BOB ROSS's AFRO your wearing.
Let's put some nice puffy clouds right here...
Found it see Joker,i was correct.
http://www.bobross.com/
He does great "happy little trees" as well.
Exactly; if it's all Paulson, how do they explain silver getting the identical treatment - to the second. It's a quiet market - Da Boyz are playing.
Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!
+1000 - well said sir.
Revelling in others' misfortune is not a healthy trait. Paulson's results up to his big subprime call were mediocre really so he shouldn't have been put on such a large pedestal anyway. Bad calls and loss are all part of the game. He'll be back.
While I certainly don't revel in his misfortune, I do wonder why he flipped from bearish to bullish - and then built up such huge concentrated positions that they would be impossible to sell if the market cracked. And he also turned his unique/hard to replicate positions (CDS) into basically a 2/20 fee mutual fund. Why would an investor pay for that? I just don't see why he would think housing was going to get fixed all of a sudden...
Gold goes down in the upcoming liquidity flush as margin clerks look for profitable positions to sell. I'll just buy more physical. It's not a trade, it's a diversification.
Oh, I see the problem. Paulson is long JPMorgan while JPMorgan is short Paulson, to put things in simpleton terms. Seems he doesn't even know who is kicking his ass.
Good one chief
It's just GS showing paulson who's boss.
people are still trading? wow.
No one, I mean NO ONE is selling gold because they simply don't HAVE IT!!! It's all paper, buy physical bitchez as there's none left, btw $20 is NOT a "plunge"
+
Cheaters always win. Unfortunately for Paulson he is obviously no longer in the squid inner circle.
I always thought Paulson was a mediocre imbecile who happened to make a big bet that hit the jackpot. He got lucky once. I bet he'll have given back all of his subprime related profits along with much of his new investors' money within a year.
Actually, it well enough be a technical trade, run out by a bunch of Algos'. I feel 'sympasthy' for the no. of ounces that are going to be taken for delivery just because someone forgot to switch them off after QE2.4 got announced... or maybe we'll have deflation and no QE2 ..what do I know..
If nothing else Paulson is gutsy. When TD first posted this portfolio, I remember thinking that old line about the market eventually discrediting everyone. Incredible concentration in finance and gold. Paulson is richer than I'll ever be, but he sure seems to have overestimated the willingness or ability of governments to keep feeding banks and for banks to digest the food properly.
In the end it seems free money and yield curve riding is not as profitable as stuffing generously-rated bond constructs up the arse's of German and Scottish bank trust departments. Paulson also seems to forget what it is like to have to scramble for a down payment and convince a shell-shocked bank manager that one deserves a mortgage. I never knew where Paulson got his bullishness on a housing recovery given newly tight-assed bank loan desks.
If Paulson sells GLD, and GLD is merely paper, then why would it impact the spot price of gold?
It would seem one of the assumptions is wrong.
Technically, the market shouldn't move until GLD sells the gold they are supposed to have. That doesn't seem to be happening. Something is amiss, no matter how you look at it.
Great time to buy gold and silver. I guess Paulson got some ideas about how he got where he is and is getting his leash jerked by the alpha dog
Deflation is here.
Gold is going to fall.
Gold does not rise and fall. Things made by men rise and fall. Inflation, deflation, fiat money, electronic digits rise and fall.
You must be posting from the land of paper. Everything physical costs the same or more, absent sales and loss leaders.
I'm interested to see the reasoning behind your Canute-declarations... do you actually think about this or just spout off whatever sounds good?
There are more than a few who have made the case that gold does BETTER in deflation in purchasing power terms than under inflationary conditions.
Are you a parrot or a human being?
I think the 2009 low in the stock market fried just about everyone's trust. Just the other day, my dentist (pretty traditional/conventional, older guy) asked me where I was putting my money (after he heard me talking to his hygenist). Everyone is scared shitless. People with money and people without.
For these reasons I think a final panic selloff is probable unless the Fed just backstops the entire selloff. If we hav a major selloff, the rest of the world markets will follow lockstep. Only China may be able to manipulate because of government secrecy....not sure. If that happens, I do agree there will be attempts to suppress gold prices (just as now) but not sure it's going to work.
Of course, this all implies things will get very, very bad. So I'm really hoping it doesn't happen.
this article does not make sense. If GLD was diverging with gold futures then yes, a liquidation of GLD is happening. This is not the case. GLD is tracking Gold futures.
Paper tracks paper; all is well.
I just checked the gold chart again and I fail to see what the panic is about.
I'm still in the black on my purchases, and I only bought in May.
It appears gold took a drop and is now in a narrow sideways channel between 1185 and 1220, and has been all month.
All this appears to be the normal fluctuations of the market and nothing to get excited about. Rather on the boring side if anything.
The gold trolls can't use logic. If gold is ever down, no matter how little, they all spring out and say "Ha-ha! I was right, you stupid gold bugs lost your asses!". They ignore the fact that even with this dip, gold is still only 5% off its all time high. They also can't believe that anyone ever bought gold at any price other than the all time high. They also think that they would be making money off of short positions opened 8 months ago.
You were the one talking about buying it at the 1240 support. Is that not buying at close to the high?
If I made a short position when it was at 1220, like I suggested back then, I probably would have covered around 1100 or so. I didn't though. But still, you act like I would hav kept my short all through the new highs. That isn't how people trade.
Still, I don't play in gold. No money to be made.
Try VXX instead. It's fantastic.
That's the difference between traders (which I honestly doubt that you are--I question if you are even 20 years old from your thuggish behavior in these forums) and investors.
Traders are in day-to-day, and give a shit about daily fluctuations, and will wind up getting killed in a sudden systemic collapse of the markets where their trades aren't executed, or wind up getting reversed or frozen. Investors such as myself are seeking refuge from the manipulations that have become endemic across all the markets. I couldn't care less what some stupid shit on the NYMEX claims my gold is worth, nor could I care less about what a belligerent child such as yourself has to say on the subject.
You are like a babbling ape lose on the Titanic, beating his chest, and flinging feces at the people in the life rafts right up until the moment that the bow rises into the air, and then slips into the cold, dark waters. To be honest, I will experience true joy at your impoverishment on that day, even if it opens the door to a new Dark Age.
This is the last response I will ever post to you. May you die by choking on your own feces as it is expelled from your mouth.
I've threatened not to play his game as well.... but he's just too much fun!
He's immature, selfish, egotistical, and wrong. A perfect target for all the reasons you outlined.
It does get tiresome nonetheless.
You are like a babbling ape lose on the Titanic, beating his chest, and flinging feces at the people in the life rafts right up until the moment that the bow rises into the air, and then slips into the cold, dark waters. To be honest, I will experience true joy at your impoverishment on that day, even if it opens the door to a new Dark Age.
This is the last response I will ever post to you. May you die by choking on your own feces as it is expelled from your mouth.
That's the best put down I've ever seen on a message board. I'm still laughing!
You certainly have no trouble with trolling on ZH-- ain't like there's any money in that, either.
What's stopping you, bigmouth? Put your fucking money where your mouth is.
Stop looking at gold day-to-day through the distorting prism of the dollar. If you trade it like paper and price it like paper, then it behaves like paper. No conspiracy, no mystery required.
It must be frustrating measuring your 'worth' in a fiat currency that bounces like a rubber ball. Today you are rich, tomorrow poor. Better to ask yourself if anything changed.
As another poster said paper gold is being sold today. Tomorrow paper gold will do something else, up, down.
Anyone following Harvey Organs crimex of the century paper fleecing has silver backed up 715 contracts with each silver contract 5000oz which is a back log of 3,575,000 million oz of silver nervous investors/industry want their hands on!! COMEX Warehouse Stocks July 15, 2010
Again we see a massive drain of silver from the customer inventory to the tune of 471,597 oz. As I have stated on many occasions, this is quite a story. All silver owners are lining up and removing their silver from registered vaults. Today we saw only 8 contracts served or 40,000 oz. A huge number of 715 remain to be served. We have noticed, the last couple of days, very few contracts of silver served upon. This is due to scarcity of metal as the comex officials are panicking as they cannot find available silver.To boot, customer silver is leaving by the boatload. Also notice that we have not had any entries of silver in the dealer category for quite some time. http://harveyorgan.blogspot.com/
Just wait! Day of CFTC reckoning near here as the rat bastards will be fitted for neck ties!! It is against the law to sell something which you don't own and people will not be nice when it's discovered how much has been sold which wasn't owned!! PANIC!!!!
I follow Harvey every day. He testified at the March CTFC hearings. There's a lot of drone noise out there claiming Harvey is wrong, which I ignore. The fact is, COMEX inventories are not audited. So no one really knows...it could all be made up....but Harvey's the best...
Could it be that now the Euro shorting has been stopping, the usual shorters that be are full force back into gold?
Gold is all about JPM continuing to heavily sell paper Comex contracts with an assist from an anonymous central bank that supplied some physical on the P.M. fix to back up their boy Jamie Dimon. Paulson rumors re: gold are nonsense just like they were last week.
Just a side note! The voluntary confiscation of the public;cash 4 gold/silver isn't feeding the bulldog for veratious appetites for real money gold/bullion when gov goons go paper ponzi wild!! Each common sense econ historian knows where people panic when real money bullion isn't availible and confidence is lost in governments issuing endless streams of paper soon to become worthless; backed by nothin but thin air promises!! Paper ponzi financial system bound for implosion in a world where illusion=zero in paper & ink!! Every vote; purchase and physical delivery of honest money gold/silver bullion is a vote against our current goon gov gone paper ponzi wild!! You can see why it's all so popular!! Accumulating honest money gold/silver in a paper mark to fantasy world is just the right thing to do!! It will absolutely vote out our current corrupt paper ponzi CONgress/SINate buy leaving them with all the corrupt worthless paper and real monetary value in the hands of "we the people!!" The more you know 100% possession is the law among the lawless thugs running our government the more wealth will be accumulated and kept in the hands of those who would preserve true liberty!! Not some mark to fantasy world of la la vaporization of a world gone completely mad with building it's foundation on paper issuance; backed by gov goon gasbags!! Not real smart in financial circles for surviving economies!!
I was beginning to think you were either a Martian or a babbling Id10t, this post changes my perspective of you.
This is an obvious bear raid designed to run the stops and clean up from associated positions in today's stock option expiration.
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2010/07/sp-500-september-futures-daily-chart-at.html
Now that sales by the IMF has gotten tired, the new meme is for John Paulson to be liquidating.
Nice uptake from the 'tipline.'
My man. I have your blog bookmarked on my button bar!
ditto what jlee said
WTF ever. Every time it goes down there's some kind of "mass conspiracy" isn't there.
It's not like market prices fluctuate or something.
A S S C L O W N
Having been a reader of yours for a long time, Jesse, I am not even fazed by the action lately. If you were on everyone's reading list there would be half of this comment section missing in action. But, confirmation bias being what it is, the know-nothings will continue to know nothing.
So Gold moves up and down by $60,70 or 100,and all the Gold bugs start shittin their pants,don,t think so.So you turn around and say to the wife,summer holiday is cancelled or later in the year its Xmas is cancelled,don,t think so.A lot more chance of someone with a bank certificate for XXXX Shares or any paper promise, saying "sorry dear we have no where to live" or "we can,t go out tonight because I,ve sold your jewellery".Stocks and fiat paper currency look dodgier everyday.Physical Gold and Silver everytime.
Gold is down today not because of Paulson. Gold is down because the powers that be do not want gold rising when the market is tanking. There are certain times when they can pull this off. Want to know how BIS is using the swapped gold? We assume that BIS did the gold swap because some commercials or a sovereign was in trouble and needed foreign currency. That may not be the case. Perhaps the anti-gold cartel was just running low on gold to manipulate the market and perhaps BIS is a major operative along with the UK and US central bank primary bullion dealers.
One thing happens like clock work month in and month out. Around the jobs report they take gold down as much as they can. When the stock market is tanking hard, they take gold down as much as they can. Just before options expiry they nearly always take gold and silver down. If you know this, you wait until these times and then buy on the dips.
What is driving gold and silver higher is that they are real money and the fact that the Euro and US debt can not and will not ever be repaid at todays currency valuations and thus the trust worthiness of the currency is increasingly worth less compared to real hard cash (gold and silver).
Keep these facts in mind and formulate your own theory:
1. Silver is the Long Lever on Gold
2. Physical Silver Delivery is the Long Lever on the Paper Silver Exchanges
3. Silver is a Tiny market and silver is far more rare than Gold
4. Silver is money but is also the most useful technological metal on Earth with ever more applications being developed for it.
5. It is getting increasingly difficult to find new high yield gold mines.
6. Clearly the Central Banks Treat Gold as Reserve Currency and that fact is bolstered by the recent BIS Swaps.
7. Unlike any other major commodity I know of, only Gold and Silver remain far below their historical inflation adjusted highs. All others matched or surpassed these levels during the commodity bull market two years ago.
8. Gold is trading around 1/2 of its inflation adjusted high and silver is trading at 1/6th of its inflation adjusted high.
9. They are so low because the "monetary authorities" work tirelessly to suppress the value of hard cash vs. their increasingly worthless currencies and ever growing and unrepayable associated debts and counterparty obligations via bonds. They know that gold and silver are perceived as the true benchmark for value and so they are constantly trying to spin the value of their currency by shooting the messenger via manipulation.
10. If swaps and leases and other paper and accounting factors are taken into account, the wester central banks that do most of the manipulating have a lot less available gold in the vaults than they show on the ledger as these banks have conveniently set up rules that let them show gold that has been leased or swapped as still being available in the vaults.
There is a formula for the victory of real money against the ongoing debasement of the wealth of nations and citizens in these facts and it is inevitable that real money will hold its value if not increase for a time by the nature of economic context that surrounds the inevitable debasement of currency engendered by never decreasing levels of debt and the Schwartzchild Radius of that corruption, a tipping point that we have already passed at least 10 years ago in my opinion.
Should the monetary authorities want to go the other route, the massive collapse of global economies will result in an exponential acceleration of that debt creation as tax revenues plumet globally. The only way forward is through planned, controlled currency debasement burns as a new form of currency, such as one based on increasing energy efficieny by a global Sea change to renewable and trending towards zero cost energy capture. Controlled inflation allows the existing systems to remain intact with out global and social chaos and without the mobs in search of tracking down finding and skinnnig the plutocrats responsible for the mess they created in the process of robbing the world and future generations of reasonable life.
Spot on.
Quite agreeable.
Question about #3 & #4:
I've been wondering about this... if 4 is true, then shouldn't we expect 3? If silver is heavily used in industry while gold is reserved for future use, then it's not surprising that more gold will be found in above ground supplies, no?
Also, [wicked grin] #10 being true might weaken support for #3, depending on the extent of over-misrepresentation of global gold reserves.
Rereading my post, it might seem like I'm pushing against the gist of your post. To be clear on my own position, I'm personally invested mostly in silver and the rest gold.
Nice one Duff.
The IMF wouldn't sell their Au to Eric Sprott. Maybe he should give the BIS a call? Though I am certain that such a sale would break some sort of protocol...
if Paulson were selling, we'd be seeing a big decline in GLD's holdings, which hasn't happened (it's down only slight from the highs). This is simply a combination of a long overdue correction with a little bit of deflation fears thrown in. I'm a gold bull, but the deflation threat needs to be respected.
Well, all I can say is:
THANK YOU JPM!
Gordon, we are thanking them far too often. Soon it will be time (even though I am a Christian) ...time to kick them in the ass where it hurts!
Jpig goes the way of all it's other whoring criminal bed partner gasbag paper ponzi pushers in the CONgress/SINate!! Goodbye to rancid meat and pariah maggots feeding into the marrow of true liberty!! Bout had my fill? How about you??
"Lets teach people correct principle that they may govern themselves!!" gasbag CONgress/SINate cannot govern their own corrupt greed rottin lives let alone teach people correct principles to true liberty!! The kind of wise principle our founding forefathers taught us which keep common sense intact and truth; a genuine shining light to real absolution, or breaking of the chains of hell vermin great pretenders choke, "we the people," with consistently for power & gain! WAKE UP! AmeriCON'd!! Headless horse men scaring all in sleepy hallow and your senses are dulled with big pharma sewage! Seizing up the splintering up windmills in your sludge clogged lead poisoned goo of a brain!! Awake your facilties and sober up and come unto true liberty which frees the soul!! You know that which our forefathers anchored in proven correct principle which frees all men as it is the truth yesterday, today, and forever!! An unchangeable scepter flowing unto all men unto everlasting freedom! Where'd that go? Some other vote for change I suppose where we all fell asleep in the poppies on our way to Oz; one nation under fraud!!
First off, a note to Turd, "You're so monie and you don't even know it!"
Look ladies and germs, capitulation gone wild, dig it! Still locked in range; gold $1200 dma, in a range of $1185 (thanks Turd) to $1207. The "bad" part is that the dma is on the high side which means we are going to now test a lower range next week. I'm looking at 1st support dropping to $1185, and second at $1165. There is next weeks range. This is a wide range and so the following swing will be violent, up or down (going into Op/Ex). We could go into Op/Ex very low, but if we do, the whole system could crash (ushering in QE Dos?). If not, and the market is leveraged up...
Silver and the same thing. Crunch the numbers folks. $17.50-$19.50 still and swinging wide. This but silver is going to get bought up now and the range will consolidate. This slowly, but come August 1st we will be back at the high side (or QE Dos). Op/Ex gold at (help me out Turd) $1250 and silver at $18.88 again (or $1101/$17.50 and QE DOS).
I would give a rat's ass, except that Central Banks and banks in general HOLD GOLD ON THEIR SHEETS. Why wouldn't anyone own gold when the whole scheme is BASED AROUND GOLD. THE SYSTEM REVOLVES AROUND GOLD. You see, FIAT is not backed by gold, but the system is, due to banks holding it.
So today the algos drop gold and the indexes follow. Expiration yo!!! Since the whole system is leveraged off of gold, who is surprised? Come on people! This is THE GAME. Didn't you know?
Here is where it all gets VERY INTERESTING. What the hell are you going to do when you realize that FIAT is worthless. All of it! Look at the doelarr snap back! Are you watching? You want T-bills? I won't stop you.....but I will laugh. And if you ain't shopping in the US, then where? Europe? China? Come on.......
Or oh you want equities...you want apple...and what will you be payed in when you cash out...FIAT! Uh-oh.....
So short we test the top of the range and the market stays hanging by a thread. If not, we test the bottom of the silver market, and we move down in the gold market, and we get QE Dos due to Equities dropping in a similar fashion. The bottom of the PM market would have the DJ spinning records at 92 hundo, at which points pensions/etc would be on the verge of being unfundable.
So at the end of the day, where does the $$ run? Who will Isis cry to?
Gold bitchez!
I ain't got the west on my shoulda, got the west
The Game - Put You On The Game:In the backseat of the rova. ridin on dubs, nigga
I'm westcoastin. the next hova from the home of
The best doja, makin all that racket, I got the u.s. open
Stunt on me I'll leave u wit ya chest open, vest broken
Hop in the lo-lo wit tha tech smokin, g-g-g-g-g!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyaPTpWWRcY
JIMI, YOU DA MAN!!!
Very, very nice. I don't have much to add.
The Evil Empire has been able to help craft a short-term chart that looks range-bound to slightly bearish. OK. Good for them. It happens form time to time. Gold will be in a box bordered by 1175 on the downside and 1245 on the upside, probably until Labor Day. I still own, and am planning to add to, my October 1300 calls and my December 1300 calls. In the meantime, I could give a shit. The Empire can really piss you off on a day-to-day basis if you let it. I choose, instead, to relax and enjoy my Friday.
p.s. I must comment on folks like JWnFL above. I don't understand why, every time gold has down day, these top-callers come out of the woodwork to taunt gold holders. They remind me of elementary school bullies...not the ones that actually did the fighting but the ones who stood behind the tough guys, piling on and talking trash.
In the past 14 months alone, I've watched and traded gold through two similar downtrend patterns. Last summer was a bitch as gold traded down from $1000 to $925 (hmmm, 925 is about 25% lower than today, one year later). Then last December, we all watched gold go from 1225 to 1050. Shit happens.
So, ignore douchebag top-callers until and unless they are actually, finally correct. What is the point in arguing with them when they are consistently wrong? If/when gold really does trade back down to $500, I'll be glad to admit I was totally fucking wrong. In the meantime, the top-callers are just a noisy distraction.
Nice...
and + an OZ...
also...
Platinum, bitchez!
But hyper-deflation is upon us, isn't it? Next year, my dollar will buy all of China, I just know it.