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Gold Refuses To Let Stocks Melt Up On Their Own, Hits Record $1,100
The melt up in stocks on no volume was fully expected after the worst possible employment news to come in over 20 years: the market-economy disconnect is now complete, and all stocks are freeriding purely on Bernanke's printing press. At least gold vigilantes are beginning to whisper in Bernanke's ear he can go fornicate himself and his dollar destruction deathwish: let's see what happens when gold melts up ala the S&P to 1,200, 1,300 and maybe 1,500 in a few short weeks: can you spell panic at the Fed? Also next up: failed auctions, the only question is when and by whom...Oh wait, those never happen right... yeah, until they do.
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The next scapegoats have been identified.
They have gone way too far way too many times. This is just the latest absurdity. Driving it up under these conditions is like a spit in the eye of every non-parasitical person who seeks honest voluntary exchanges that are not at the mercy of imaginary money, imaginary markets, imaginary accounting, imaginary prices, imaginary media, imaginary justice, imaginary elections, etc, etc.
Don't care about their "scapegoats". We know who the bad guys are. They are gonna get the "pitchforks" up "their asses" for this, sooner or later. Force and fraud ("government") against people who do not want to be preyed upon will come to and end! The universal "Freedom Constitution" for all free persons is about to become an unstoppable meme and catalyst for revolution. Spread the word. Read one of many manifestos of free people such as
"A Theory of Socialism and Capitalism" by Hans-Hermann Hoppe. Once the meme gains critical mass it will sweep the planet.
Surely the fact that people can afford to pay $1,100 for an ounce of gold is a sign that the economy is doing ok?
Fornicate me!
Ooh.
I am Chumbawamba.
LOL! Are you single?
Married doll!
Perhaps "Fuuuuck me" said with a certain inflection is a colloquialism. Around these parts, it is a redneckish expression of machismic awe and reverence. I was playing with Tyler's substitution of "fornicate" in a place where he might have used "fuck," to express my own amazement when I clicked the Kitco site to see that, indeed, we brushed the face of 1100.
Thanks to you and others, I got a little more gold than I had before. Still need to locate more, locally. I like privacy and my local dealer is good for that. Plus I know where he is, if he were to fuck me over I can make his life at least annoying to downright nightmarish, depending. I like that.
Keep rocking them baby!
I just found 5 Buffalos. 1170. Ouch. But at least I will stop thinking about it and searching. 5 Buffalos in the hand and all.
No worries at all. Compared to where the price is going, it will feel like peanuts when you look back.
Plus I know where he is, if he were to fuck me over
Test your buy before you leave the joint..
http://www.wholesale-scales.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&product...
Good for you sweetie. It is extremely important - especially these days with all the scams - to buy from someone you trust, even if you have to pay a little extra or you might end up being penny wise and pound foolish. I'm sure you have heard about tungsten filled gold bars, which means that even large investors are not immune from being cheated out of their money - there just isn't that much Gold to go around at these prices, IMHO.
The wall of worry is being climbed....
Not a single friend, colleague or family member has any gold or gold-related investments.
They still think I'm quite mad to own the stuff...even though I bought at $300 or so in 2002 and have done very nicely.
When they start buying...I'm out!
Actually, we're not even CLOSE to a bubble in Metals. Jesse had an excellent reminder of when/how you'll know a bubble exists:
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2009/11/how-can-you-tell-when-gold-is-in-bubble.html
wait until they're all in.
This market is God's gift to long stragglers to get the hell out while they can.
More green shoots news! This came out a couple days ago so maybe we have already seen the pump based on this:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_MED_CHILDREN_FOOD_STAMPS?SITE=...
There is more than one way to use a printing press! (Cept, technically, it is plastic these days, I think).
Most remarkable, truly astonishing.....
Fun fact: Divide the total dollar supply by the total amount of U.S. gold and you get gold at about $50,000 an ounce.
GOLD, BITCHES!!!
I am Chumbawamba.
And that figure doesn't include the Euro
or Yuan or the Yen or the Rupee or the...
Trouble is that nobody knows if there is any gold left at Fort Knox. What's the bigger secret the amount of gold or the fact that there is none.
It's ALL about the dollar on an intraday basis. Overlay the chart of the DXY and the SPX. What's very peculiar is that intraday vola on the DXY has gone off the charts over the last 5 to 7 trading days and, as a result, has sent the SP500 futures market on quick and significant moves on NO equity volume.
The equity markets are essentially being driven by the futures market which is being driven by quick / short bursts in the currency markets.
Crazy times indeed.
The total supply of gold relative to its flow is so great, the POG doesn't change. It is always stable. It is a monetary Polaris. Relative to gold, it is the value of fiat currency that changes. The Fed has monopoly power over our fiat currency. It can create or remove the monetary base at the stroke of a pen. Anytime you bet on gold you are betting on Fed monetary policy. Good luck figuring out what the Fed will do next.
Your ass will get blasted for making observations like this in the comments section.
I've asked quite a few questions about gold stockpiling and always get the same "gold has been money for thousands of years", "it's the elegant solution to a complex investment question"(no details to follow), and the always-popular and easily-disprovable "GOLD ROOOLZ WORTHLESS PAPER BACKED BY NOTHING DROOOOLZ" responses. I don't want to make it sound like the gold bugs are all jerks (because they've generally responded politely to my questions), but it's looking to me like those who treat gold as anything other than a hedge do it as an ideological statement rather than a trading strategy.
It makes me wonder if gold hoarders find satisfaction in the Fed spooging all over the value of the dollar, regardless of what happens to their actual wealth.
Yes, it is an ideology: an ideology of sound money and sound fiscal policy. Everytime we promote gold it's because we're trying to SAVE people from the inevitable death and destruction that is looming on the American horizon once the dollar gets hyperinflated into oblivion.
I'm not trying to be snide or coy or callous or anything negative you might ascribe to my "GOLD, BITCHES!!!" war cry, but the fact is I'm hurting just like everyone else, but I have faith in my conviction. Like someone who has found God, I found Gold and in It I trust. And call it a religious fervence or a psychological aberration, but I'm convinced I'm right here and now, and I see it as my duty to spread the gospel to save as many souls from the hell of hyperinflation as I can.
So when I'm speaking, stand back. Lead, follow, or get out of the way, but do not interfere with my work or else the death of those who could have been saved will be on your conscience.
I am Chumbawamba.
preach the word, brother Chumba!
Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Brother,,, I can see you in that tent show now, very inspiring, very...
+10000
Amen brother. ROTFLMFAO.
Brandy night, you should definitely sell gold into this rally. If you have no gold, then you should go majorly short.
You're gonna do awesome!
Word to your mother!
I am Chumbawamba.
FWIW, I'm working on an article (to be published on this site shortly) that tries to answer some of these questions. Hope it helps.
You are absolutely correct, "betting" on gold is betting on Fed monetary policy. At least for me it is. My holding gold is a DIRECT bet against the value of the fiat USD. Though I wouldn't call it a "bet", to me it is wealth preservation, because that is what "money" is supposed to be after all - a store of wealth.
As for figuring out what the Fed will do next, are you kidding? Do you realize who is running the Fed?
You clearly don't follow what is going on in the MBS market - $1.25T new dollars at a minimum, and probably much more, will be created that will NEVER be extracted.
Personally I think you're correct that it's the value of fiat currency that changes relative to gold. But it was once upon a time that the Fed could remove the monetary base at will and without extreme repercussions to the economy (writ, corpocracy). To do so anytime within the next 10 years would leave the system a smoking ruin and make things as bad as they're going to be anyway. But the Fed and its ilk don't think it will happen as long as they pump liquidity. IMO we're past the point of no return anyway and we're just treading water and biding time until the paper ponzi scheme implodes. What then? I'm certainly not sure that PM's are our salvation. But it's worth having a sizeable trove as a hedge given thousands of years of human valuation of the stuff. How long has paper been valuable? It's only through the machinations of just so many "smart" people that the masses signed on to the paper ponzi scheme. But us masses be wakin' up and gettin' wiser to said machinations.
You will know the top in gold occurs only when nobody, I mean NOBODY makes fun of gold bugs.
and HGTV has a show called "Flip this Krugerand"
+1
+100
Yesterday we were told by a very smart and trusted colleague out of Chicago connected the regime, that the bureaucrats are quote: "scared shitless of an all out impending system collapse." This might explain why they tell their friends at Goldman to strategically manipulate the release numbers, as well as mindlessly bid up the ETF's and indexes only to exchange each day's so-called portfolio, at the Fed's repo window for newly minted dollars. And to think, they do so at the expense (and submission) of taxpayers (via societal debt) and future generations. Remember, in this Administration, the "messiah" knows best. This is the land of a Socialistic or Communistic society.
Hope you're wrong. Believe you're right.
They tried to hold the market up during the Great Crash but didn't succeed, now they have a monopoly and HFT so it is a lot easier.
They fool the sheeople into thinking it is okay to buy this insane overvalued market because someone else is so it must be okay, so they get fooled into thinking the world is upside down and bad is good.
They have learned how to use Crowd Behaviour to the fullest and lead people by the nose. Computers and trailing stops are a great boon too and can be used to great advantage especially if you see what is going on before anyone else does and so can magnify the move and make it appear even better than it should have been
Going to collapse? What's the current state of the system? And stop the Socialist, Communist, political garbage. This is about the sociopathic love of money. Lives are at stake.
I would say it's actually a sociopathic hatred of money, and all that it stands for, that is driving this dollar devaluation. It's perverse.
Got gold? Got TBT
When interest rates go up gold goes up panic sets in and they take down the market.
Where are the bond vigilantes?
Bond vigailantes were nuetered long ago by the IRS contracts.
I believe you are correct, there is no other viable explanation for the stability of fiat in this environment other than the sheer size of IRS.
bingo. The treasury market will implode when people start unwinding those IRS contracts en masse and selling the T-bonds (like Harvard did recently).
Since the Fed is, by some estimates, 80% of the bond market, I doubt if there any bond vigilantes left.
EXACTLY. I would argue that the same hold true for the stock "market" as well.
Hypothetically speaking, if one wanted to buy Nymex gold futures, could they effectively be hedged with GLD puts? What are the pros and cons to such a strategy?
So you want actual physical delivery of your gold then? Much simpler to do a straddle on GLD, no need to touch the futures then.
Zeropower-
Could you send me a link to your pic of the babes wrapped in the Canadian flag?
Thanks much
I don’t comment here that often but been reading ZH from the beginning. I just have one question for the very smart people who write here. Is it too late to hop on board the gold train or will the return be too small and risk too large. I am very upset with myself in that I did not listen to everything I was reading by Eric Janszen at the start of the year. He truly nailed it
If you're not going to own gold, what else are you going to own? Dollars? Stocks? Bonds?
oil?
How about brass, copper, and lead.
As a recent master's grad without a (good-paying) job and with a mountain of debt... this is the sort of stuff that is scaring a lot of us shitless.
I have no disposable funds for investing in anything other than a few extra cans of beans and some ammo.
If things really hit the fan, weapons and ammunition might make an excellent investment. I have a crate of ammo that has gone from $70 to $400 in about 2 years.
Ha ha..I'm a computer programmer...with a shitty job. I recently dropped boxed wine and dining out once a week from my budget in hopes to scrape together enough dough to get a couple AK47s and amo. Those car repairs will just have to wait. It helps that I ate free laffy taffy and peanut m&ms for lunch all week but then I didn't poop for three days. Next time I'll just stick to the peanuts. On a positive note, I'm proud of myself for getting these math questions correct without the use of a calculator. My spelling/typing is probably not as good....
I bought $2,000 of wine in the last month. I the shit hits the fan, at least I'll drink well.
Vodka and spirits of that volume of alcohol have an indefinite shelf life. Wine is good, but touchy.
When the shit hits the fan the wine is free if have AK47. It's called looting.
Maybe I get a new rifle out of the visit. It's called shooting. Got extra magazines?
http://www.bulletproofme.com/
$70 to $400...whoa. That's data I didn't know about.
A farm?
I think a lot of the stocks haven't moved yet, so there could be opportunity there IMO. You have to do more homework choosing those though.
Junior mining stocks had their balls cut off last year, and most still haven't recovered to where they were when POG hit 1000.
If you are an Ituliper, go re-read this
http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10539
and this
http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10538
(the first link is only open to select members)
It will be too late to buy gold, when there is none for sale as priced in dollars. Until then, if you can buy, then BUY!
That being said, I would rather buy when I KNOW it is available was waiting till later only to find that it is no longer available.
Capice?
Good links,,
Thanx
I got three words for you my friend:
BUY GOLD NOW.
We ain't seen NOTHIN' yet. In fact, the opposite is true right now: the risk is too small (with $1000 as the floor) and potential gains TOO LARGE to miss.
I agree, I hate to give others investment advice, and maybe gold is not for everyone, but whatever you own, do not hold dollars, and try to hold whatever it is in physical. There is going to come a point sometime soon, I believe, where dollars are going to be near worthless, and no, I am not talking about stupid wage-price spiral inflation, I am talking about currency crisis hyperinflation.
Wouldn't it be prudent to have cash equal to around a couple month's expenses as a hedge and possibly to ride out a bank holiday? The masses ain't gonna drop actual paper that quickly I wouldn't think.
It is no where near too late. And don't be a fraid if we do get a dip due to resurging us treasuries. For now I think the chance to hit a double dip is over but their really is no way to say for sure that something wont happen to force gold/silver prices down for a short period of time, at this point I just wouldn't bet on it.
Buy mostly silver and a little gold. Silver will have much larger upside than gold will due to historical ratios.
Lock door, phone off hook, put on reading
glases and start in on Alf Field, Richard
Russell, Jim Sinclair, Jim Wille, Alex
Wallenheim, Doug Casey etc. Or just
listen to GG and buy on the dips.
Don't forget to round it off with some Martin Armstrong.
I am Chumbawamba.
If I were you and owned absolutely NO gold - gulp - I guess I'd maybe sell some GLD puts a couple months out and maybe 50 or 80 bucks out of the money. If/when they expire worthless, then do it again. Repeat until the inevtible pullback forces you to buy in when you get assigned. I'd personally have a hard time buying the recent top. Of course, I'm in at much lower levels - having taken a lot of shit in 1999 and 2000 for buying gold.
or will the return be too small and risk too large.
The huge risk is ANYTHING DENOMINATED IN DOLLARS!!DOLLARS,, GET OUT,, NOW!!
there is one other alternative that is off the mainstream radar. Has much more potential than GOLD with all the same qualities (store of value, medium of exchange, 5000 year history of being actual money) and its very cheap by historical standards.... that is SILVER.
But its much more volatile. I would expect it to be a late comer to the party when gold gets priced out of reach of the average investor.... like now!
I am waiting for Gordon to post here.Recovery...uhh..not so much.
Depression?Yes.
This time it's DISINTEGRATION, not even a depression.
Yawp.
Gold, Guns, Garden.
I am Chumbawamba.
My friend, you've just discribed my sleepless nights. When Ron Paul states, "It would be like in medicine somebody had cancer, and we treated him with aspirin saying you don't want the truth and give him real treatment." I'm not thinking "Yeah, you're right", I'm thinking, "unless the patient has terminal cancer. Then you close them up and charge the credit cards to their limits." I try so hard to stay positive, forgive me.
You said it, Marley. In the words of Clay Davis: Shii-iit.
"charge the credit cards to their limits"
Which is apparently what the US Govt. is doing issuing trillions in Treasuries.
We are so fucked.
Goldman is publically commenting to Clients on how friendly they are towards Gold, a sure sign that the run is over.
Watch the dollar, watch the dollar.
At the start of the year 2009, Goldman said it could get to $1,500 by year end...
No, they'll want to load up the bus with suckers before shanking them. Push the bus off a cliff if they can.
Can they? I'm starting to wonder with state purchases of bullion (if the india thing is a trend, not an anomoly), even the banksters are going to have trouble holding it down for the next little while.
Mark Gilbert's BB commentary worthwhile:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=a_GAssrewg9I
Excerpt:
That's because there IS no Treasury "market". The Fed is pretty much the entire Treasury "market" right now alongwith certain misguided dollar-deflationists.
"Also next up: failed auctions"
IMHO, a plunging dollar is the closest manifestation of a failed auction that we'll ever see.
Define "failed" if its steadily going down in a well behaved trading range. Seems like it's going according to their plan.
"Seems like it's going according to their plan."
Yeah, until it doesn't. You are describing what HAS happened, which is no guarantee of what WILL happen.
got a list of reputable gold vendors? And a list of countries with reputable banks to store the gold?
I really think the U.S. Government will confiscate gold if things get out of hand.
I have actually taken a couple trips up to Canada recently and opened a safe deposit box there to store some of my gold, the rest I bring home and put it in the safe (I have a good one). You can buy gold at close to spot at most Canadian banks. Bars of it if you want.
Any idea on the financial strengh of RBC? I have a local branch, RBC Centura, but want to store in a seperate country in a bank that is solvent. The other worry I have is cooperation of Canadian banks with U.S. Federal authorities. I do not want my bank to assist in the confiscation of my holdings on behalf of the Treasury.
I think Peter Schiff would probably recommend Australia, FWIW.
That would be the Perth Mint cerfiicates,,, If you really think this collapse will force you to be expat,, then buy some..
P.S. Only the allocated accounts..
paging robert prechter.......paging robert prechter....
please report to the information booth.....
ROTFL. He's busy changing his soiled diaper.
I don't get at all why Jon Nadler over at Kitco is so bearish and angry at gold when his company's whole business is the selling of bullion.
He wants to go public,, smoke the big guys...
I commented on this yesterday....
Some of the articles & postings on the Kitco & Gold-Eagle sites are just the silly ramblings of gold bugs. I'm a gold bug and yet I welcome his comments. They are a good antidote to the permabull stuff that is posted there.
If you understand his personal history (fleeing communism with gold coins in his undies) you will appreciate that he more than anyone knows how gold is a store of value.
He must get heaps of abuse from the die-hards though!
Nadler set up a gold ponzi scheme, called pool accounts. This was featured in GATA's daily market update yesterday. He sells stakes in gold pool accounts, if gold really goes to the moon people will want to cash out...but he doesn't have the gold he says he does so he talks the market down. That's why he talks down the investment he sells.
Can't wait till he is shown to be the charlatan he is!
While I wouldn't put it past anyone to countenance such a ridiculous strategy, I don't see how one person, no matter how influential they may be, moving the gold market in the direction needed to make such a strategy pay out towards profitability.
I don't care if he fled with gold coins or the mother fucking Pope in his underwear, the guy is an idiot if he's knocking gold. Quadrupally so if he's in the gold corner.
I am Chumbawamba.
Nadler has advised others, notably the Perth Mint, on creating their own unallocated gold pool ponzi scheme, just like Kitco's.
You know, the Perth Mint pool that acts as a cheap gold lender to their division that makes and sells gold products? You know, the pool that jacked it's withdrawal rates up to levels that make it uneconomical to actually take your gold OUT of the pool? The pool that treated those who held like crap and then threatened them when they complained?
The great rep of the Perth Mint is one of the greatest scams in the current gold market. People who trust these guys to hold their gold promises are going to get a big surprise when gold moon-shots.
Nadler propagates anti-gold schemes while acting as the rep to a gold company. End of story. I don't care how many gold coins he stuffed up his ass. He's just another scammer sitting on top of a pile of someone elses gold.
oof...maybe that Australian safe-deposit box idea isn't so good after all...
The markets had a rally yesterday on "good numbers" and they rally today on bad numbers ???
dazed and confused
No offence meant, but have you been in a coma since March 9?
Go figure.
http://highfrequency.tumblr.com/
Nice tumblr feature this I will definitely be making more used of it.
The Great Disintegration.
I was thinking the "Greatest Depression",
But your title fits much more aptly!
No worries mates:
"The Greatest Disintegration: Entropy on Steroids"
Can I borrow that title for the History Book I am going to write in the future?
'Things fall apart...it's scientific.' - Talking Heads
The reason Gold has been going up without looking back since August 31st is because of China's derivative default stance.
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssBanks/idUSSP47327420090831
Look at volume and price action on GLD or ABX since 8/31, and ask yourself what happened? This derivative default is a black swan event that was never reported in our MSM. A week later China moves it's physical gold from London to Hong Kong. The IMF gets nervous and releases 403 tons of Gold only to be met by the Chinese and Indians offering to by it all. They are going to nuke the Fed and Wall Street if they follow though, at that point I imagine there dollar holdings will be worth quite a bit.
"The reason Gold has been going up without looking back since August 31st is because of China's derivative default stance."
This makes a lot of sense to me.
The point of no return has been transcended. The US Federal government cannot and will not pay its debts. There will be currency devaluation as a means of default and then probably serial defaults by sovereigns around the world.
Gold is the everyman getting out of the system. Taking his chances with a different arbitrary store of value but one which holds his and fellow citizens confidence far more than the self combusting fiat IOUs.
The world as a deadbeat. Debt must be managed very, very carefully and always paid back quickly before it escalates beyond any ability to pay--no matter the self imposed austerity.
World financial system IS blowing up albeit slowly.
Gold will be the only thing to emerge from the ashes of false paper pledges.
Or as Harry Dean Schultz put it, "The last man standing will be the last man standing with gold."
In one of Harry Schultz's newsletters, around July 08, he advised holding AT LEAST 30% of a portfolio in gold and other PMS. I took him seriously and then some.......I've done very well, and intend to continue to.
"Plunge protection team, where are you
Weve got some markets to goose now
We can count on you yeah PPT youre ready and your buyin!"
I keep picturing a desperate administration singing this scooby-doo inspired little ditty.
The whole mess is cartoonishly surreal.
In my opinion the "gold vigilantes" would benefit from taking as much physical silver off the COMEX to get the RSI to drop in the Gold vs. Silver ratio. Silver is either a lever or drag on gold performance and you can not beat the bullion banks on their short positions in the paper market in silver in my opinion. The only way to win that battle is to play outside the paper sand box and use the physical off take to lever the futures prices up. When silver breaks above $22, I believe gold will skyrocket at least $200.
It seems to me that since the cartel is having trouble capping gold directly that they are using their somewhat better position in silver to use silver as a drag on gold's ascent.
GOLD IS GOING TO BURN THE PAPER PONZI SYSTEM TO THE GROUND!!!
GOT GOLD SUCKAS!!!
A primer on Precious Metals investment. Send it to your loved ones if they can't seem to get it into their skulls. Tell them to build their own Ark, Yours will be full.
http://www.NumisEX.com/blog/1/2009/11/purchasing-or-investing-precious-m...
Hey Palper (Pauper?), Canadian Box, and LeadedBeans w/the MA,
Buy some 90% silver coins, you can pick them up in as reasonable amounts as you can afford- AND if you have them you have them. In a bank in Canada- you do NOT have possession. Look at the English box raids... Go lurk on Kitco if you don't feel comfortable on Ebay.. if nothing else just to watch the friendly abuse GotGoldies gets...
Hi Palper. I have purchased gold at - BullionVault.com - and silver at - GoldMoney.com. So far, I have not heard or read any bad stories about these two places, and my own experience so far is also good.
In these two places private individuals can buy physical bullion in as small or large quantities as you want. The bullion is insured and stored in Zurich or London in ViaMat Vaults. So if you do not want to have gold or silver stored in your own home, this is an alternative. You can go to the websites and read a lot more about, how it works, how often they are audited, how the gold is allocated (as opposed to other types of unallocated gold purchases) and why this distinction is VERY important etc.
I have a few more names for your research list from Anon above: James Turk (founder of Gold Money), Paul Tustain (founder of BullionVault), Ted Butler (comments weekly on KingWorldNews.com), Mike "Mish" Shedlock (deflationary argument), Peter Schiff (inflationary argument), Gerald Celente (We will all go to hell argument), Max Keiser (another deflationary argument). And finally - to balance things off a bit - shop around mainstream to get a dosage of anti Gold arguments. Another alternative perspective: I think it was Tyler D, who posted a good contribution some weeks back about what would happen if the Gold ETFs suddenly sold off.
Final note: It is your savings - do not take any persons word as 100% truth - only you can make sure that you have done (and continuously do) your homework thoroughly by checking out multiple sources of information and putting together your own picture and investment plan.