This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Gold Surges To Fresh All Time High As Stocks Priced In Gold Are Now Down Only 12.65% YTD
As stocks continue surging higher on absolutely no news (let along good ones), the one and only natural offset to the demented and deranged actions now undertaken by all central banks continues to be gold, which just moments ago touched on new all time spot highs at $1283.80. And while the president is touting Brian Sack and Ben Bernanke's fantastic handling of the stock market year to date, perhaps he or one of the other members of his shrinking economic team can explain why the S&P in terms of gold is down 12.65% Year to Date!
And gold:
»
- 5875 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
Give Brian a chance- should be down on the day by the end of the session....
What about the S&P priced in cotton? Or S&P priced in crude oil? What about crude oil priced in gold?
Most everything deflates against gold, doesn't it? Or gets consumed.
Gold denominates the value of all of those, none of them denominate the value of gold. Hence, it is the universal store of value.
Cotton and oil get used up. Shares of stock and gold do not. Pricing investment instruments against money makes sense. Pricing them against commodities, not so much.
And no, gold is not a commodity.
Equities priced in Gold is the only chart you need to look at if you want your family to become very rich :
If you look at a 100 year historical chart of DOW / GOLD you can come up with the following blind rule:
Sell Gold, buy equities when the ratio goes below 3
Sell equities, buy Gold when the ratio goes above 15
If your family was a typical middle class family in 1910 and had put the equivallent of today's $100,000 in equities and Gold following this blind rule to the letter you would have :
In 1910, the equivallent of $100,000 today was $4,500, or 220 ounces of Gold then (inflation devalued the dollar 22 times and the price of Gold in 1910 dolars was $20)
In 1910 the ratio was just below 3 so you would have bought equities (a diversified portfolio equivallent to the DOW then) instead of Gold with those $4,500. The dow was at 75 back then.
In 1928 the ratio went above 15 so your family would have sold equities and bought 1100 ounces of Gold (15=5x3 so selling your equities would have given you 5 times more Gold than your original 220 ounces)
In 1933 the ratio went below 3 so your family would have sold the 1100 ounces of Gold and bought equities instead
In 1958 the ratio went above 15 so your family would have sold their equities and bought 5500 ounces of Gold instead
In 1979 the ratio went below 3 so your family would have sold their 5500 ounces of Gold and bought equities instead
In 1995 the ratio went above 15 so your family would have sold their equities and bought 27,500 ounces of Gold instead
Today the DOW/Gold ratio is at 8.4 so you'd still be holding onto your 27,500 ounces of Gold until it drops below 3. That is worth $35.2 million in today's $.
So by following this rule blindly your family would have :
beaten inflation 352 times
beaten someone who would have kept 220 ounces of Gold 125 times
beaten someone who would have bought only equities (a changing diversified portfolio equivallent to the changing dow) 55 times (the dow was at 75 in 1910 so your $4,500 original investment would have given you 60 dows or $ 645,000 today)
Try to come up with a blind rule with cotton, oil or anything else other than Gold vsEquities and you'll see you won't find a blind rule that works that well.
This is a simple blind rule : 1 chart (DOW or SPX /GOLD) and 2 clear unambiguous signals
If you had followed that blind rule since 1975 you would have
kept 130 ounces of Gold until 1979 (the equivallent of $100,000 today with inflation devaluing the dollar 4.2 times and Gold at $180 in 1975 dollars)
sold Gold bought equities in 1979
sold equities bought 650 ounces of Gold in 1998
kept Gold until now (and later)
You would have :
beaten inflation 8.3 times
beaten Gold 5 times
beaten equities 2.8 times
That was awesome, and a great contribution...
Equally interesting is the HUI, finally breaking through 500. Will it hold?
Excellent question. Unless the $ rallies and equities in general fade, the HUI is finally going to do it.
Don't tell Robo, this is a good day for him to gloat.
The EE is printing new paper gold shorts as fast and as furiously as they can, trying to hold 1285 on the Dec10. Unless the USDX bounces off 81.20 again, they're not going to be successful.
Absent some headlines creating a euro selloff, the USDX is about to flop down to 80 or so in short order. Gold will correspondingly shoot through 1285 and 1300, on its way to 1350.
Bouncing in a tight $3 range as the cabal and mystery buyers battle in the shadows.
1300 by Wednesday.
Too bad; it's out of my price range now, and I would only add on dips.
Deleted.
God do I hope you are wrong! Here I am looking to line up another around purchase op ex. Where are you JPM?!? Get in there and get me a better buy price you cowards!
Be patient.
Again, The Evil Empire has predictably set up a line of defense at 1285 on the Dec10. 1270-72 will attract a lot of dip buying. I'd say the 1285 will fail overnight Tuesday or early am Wednesday.
MW rejoicing as if WWII just end with 1000 pt font size declaration:
U.S. recession ended in '09
How exciting!
Tell that to all the US consumers -- they apparently have called bullshit on that statistic. But as usual good for the govt to give it the old "college try!"
Real estate is also calling bullshit on that.
Definitely...I guess they had to call the end to the first one rather than admit it never ended when they announce the beginning of the second one.
Bones sez: "He's dead, Jim."
I'm a doctor not an economist, dammit!
and I only play one on TV
Belief in an economic recovery today would be illogical.
we never had one--and certainly this announcement by its timing is proof positive. again "this is not to say we still can't have one" with the dollar in the tank, all commodities surging, gold at an all time high AND GOVERNMENT EMPLOYMENT IN DECLINE. this is classic Jimmy Carter "inflate away the deficit"--provided the jobs come back. and of course "that is one BIG proviso." if joblessness begins a statistically significant push higher as "the baby boomer early retirement plan" reveals only a "hell on the employment front scenario" prepare for a sudden appearance of "disintermediations" to go along with "mergers and acquisitions." the Fed's have moved heavan and earth to get us this far--which is an amazing feat in and of itself--but as we all know "prior results are not a gurantee of future of returns." Indeed before Congress begins its next session it might want to have this be its opening prayer.
Recession just ended?!?! Oh my god! I heard we just landed on the moon too!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f_DPrSEOEo
I would love to hear Gibbs give an explanation of that. Or Barry: I, uh, after inheriting a terrible economic collapse, well, I decided that YES WE CAN! No applause huh? Ok, well...gotta go! ::runs out the door::
OT Music (Junto Song - A Taxing We Will Go): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1gGFAnRLaU
Wait till the whole shebang collapses. Will the rats run into hiding or try to make America a police state? I'm betting a police state. That's when the people need to march on Washington to take back our country.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDuZmmz3dqg&feature=player_embedded
max keiser interviews jim willie about the real life gold/silver squeeze that is happening, and also mentions the end of summer collapse of BoA that was rescued/covered up by the fed......why is there no other leaks of this information?? with all the fraud you would think more would of this would leak out.....LBMA has gone data dark though....
Thanks for the link hadn't caught this one yet.
Check out this link from Kitco: http://www.kitco.com/ind/Wilson/sep202010.html
It has some great information and price projections for Silver....
Here is another talking about the possible recent top in Treasuries and money migrating into PM's: http://www.kitco.com/ind/Handwerger/sep202010.html
Edit: forgot to thank you Doggis for the link to Dr. Willie.... very nice.
I strongly suspect that Kitco's resident (and hysterical) gold-bashing bankster shill Jon Nadler does not agree with those analyses.
Funny you should say that, considering he has been calling gold a plethora of names, and snide comments about those who might see value in the metal w/o wearing a foil lined hat, since 500.00.
I also find it ironic that he is involved with Kitco in any way considering they actually sell metals, and his job seems to be one of psychological manipulation, tempting people NOT to buy metals.
Like a broken clock, he will be right eventually (and JB too), but it will only last a minute... LMAO.
There is a plethora of online commentary and speculation regarding the anti-gold, pro-government, pro-bankster propaganda of Jon Nadler, who daily poormouths and denigrates gold (and "Radical Goldbug Extremists" --- his phrase!), despite his position as the official spokesman and "Senior Analyst" of Kitco, a precious-metals trading company. Some of the following material might interest you:
"The Nadler Retort: What Jon Nadler doesn't want you to know about gold":
http://www.tomaveni.com/Commentary/Nadler-01.htm
http://www.tomaveni.com/Commentary/Nadler-04.htm
http://www.tomaveni.com/Commentary/Nadler-05.htm
http://www.tomaveni.com/Commentary/Nadler-06.htm
"Kitco's Nadler Problem":
http://silverenthusiast.com/kitcos-n...-1/#comment-16
"What's Eating Jon Nadler?":
http://www.miningmaven.com/blog/51-b...ng-jon-nadler-
"The Idiocy of Jon Nadler, Gold Permabear":
http://forums.silverseek.com/showthread.php?8632-The-Idiocy-of-Jon-Nadle...
akak, I am only half way through what you posted above. That was a real gift, and an excellent follow-on.
Thank you very much.
Sorry, but had to add this from the following link above: http://forums.silverseek.com/showthread.php?8632-The-Idiocy-of-Jon-Nadler-Gold-Permabear
Met Jim Willie a few years ago at a GATA reception after a Vancouver Resource Conference.
People like Willie and Murphy need to see support behind them. All you bloggers get off your hands and let BNN know that citizens will not stand by and let this shit continue. Come on! ZH has a great number of articulate posters. Take a few minutes and let the cowardly bastards feel the heat.
..................................................................................
Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:
In the space of a few hours last week, Canada's Business News Network invited GATA Chairman Bill Murphy to be interviewed at its headquarters in Toronto during the Toronto Resource Investment Conference next weekend and then withdrew the invitation on the grounds that GATA is "too controversial."
GATA is unaware of anything it did in those few hours to become particularly more controversial than when the invitation was made, and so people may wonder whether BNN has fallen victim to pressure from outside sources that don't want the gold price suppression story to be reported even in a major gold-mining nation. Canadians who would like to see Murphy interviewed on BNN anyway can express themselves to the network here:
http://www.bnn.ca/contactus.aspx
Of course being anything except polite will not help.
Murphy discusses the BNN invitation's issuance and withdrawal in commentary posted today at GoldSeek, "Lack of Free Press in Canada," here:
http://news.goldseek.com/LemetropoleCafe/1284937260.php
CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.
.......................................................................................
It's time for the ZH "Truthers" to show it's increasing media muscle to the TSX and BNN...(and by extension the USSA MSM).
GO GATA !
later from BNN...
Thank you for your email concerning an appearance on Business News Network by Bill Murphy of the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee. Mr. Murphy was double-booked in our editorial calendar for both September 17 and September 24. BNN cancelled the September 17 appearance – which would have been by remote – but kept the September 24 booking as we knew Mr. Murphy would be in Toronto for a conference around that time and would be able to appear at our Toronto studios. Mr. Murphy is still scheduled to appear on BNN’s popular Trading Day program at 3:00 p.m. Eastern Time / 12:00 p.m. Pacific Time this Friday. We appreciate your interest in our programming and thank you for watching Business News Network. Sincerely, Jack Fleischmann General Manager BNN – Business News NetworkJust a coincidence?
CNBCrap now on WH/Demo payroll.
Coincidence?
Yeah, Jim Paulson is objective. Recalls that other objective cnbc guest from this morning Bob Doll. Where's Mike Holland and Bob Froelich?
My personal favorite is Ken Fishface. I mean Fisher.
CNBC applauds in its idol worship as the the O-man sets up to sing his greatest hit: "It's Bush's Fault".
So much for objectivity. Preconceived notions of Mr. O's performance will not disappoint.
Open a new WTF thread after seeing the opening fir king Obutthead just now.
Checklist for Stock ramping...
Gold surging.... check
House price falling... check
Jobless level rising... check
Consumer Credits falling... check
Equity Funds outflow... on
People in SNAP program 41 Mio... check
foreclosures on all time high... ok
Baltic Dry Index falling... check
ECRI Index sending signs of recission ... ok
All checks ok
Gentleman... please start your ( silicon )Engines...
and let the Stocks melt up.
Record amount of people on welfare/food stamps...check
Student loan debt exceeds consumer credit card debt for first time...check
Continued debasement of currency...check
Real Estate values falling...check
Record manipulation in markets by Fed and Central Banks...check
It's a good thing the recession ended over a year ago.
they heard you. manipulated gold plunge on now...
I think Hal 9000 activates the infinite gold short program based on zerohedge's RSS feed.
Missing: Johnny Bravo
If you have any information on the whereabouts of Mr. Bravo, please contact ZH admin ASAP.
Couldn't help myself...
I rather like not having to tip-toe thru a turd field any more.
it's good fertilizer
Only if you wait six months.
Then it is certainly good for a few yuks.
"I rather like not having to tip-toe thru a turd field any more."
I resemble that remark...
Perhaps the answer to your question lies in the junks?
I'll check the backs of my milk cartons.
perhaps...
If you want to see JB.........just crash the price of gold by shorting a few thousand contracts in the front month, if JPM can do it you can do it too, and JB will show up! But unfortunately that plan doesn't seem to be working anymore (for JPM). Don't worry, he still reads the posts, just mention his name or initials and if you get junked you know he has shown up.
Seriously, I hope that bastard was killed in a hit-and-run auto accident. His incessant and malevolent trashing of EVERY gold-related thread earned him a permanent banning here, or would have if this forum had any moderation whatsoever.
So, YOU are advocating banning people based on gratuitous posts?
Come on akak, a hit and run is a little severe. Maybe just a little hemorragic fever or something. LOL. I don't wish him any ill, I just wish he could respond directly to many arguments favorable to gold put to him by many instead of just re-hashing the same points. And if this forum had any moderation whatsoever, you and maybe I would be banned, so rejoice it doesn't. If you want to set the rules, start your own blog, this is TD's so he gets to say what's what.
Yes, I wish him dead, and am not afraid to say so.
His insidiously repetitive, vitriolic and maliciously disinformative trashings of EVERY gold-related thread in this forum speak not to simple stubbornness or cluelessness, but a deep and calculating malevolence and hatred of truth and honesty. Let us give what JohnnyBravo did to this forum the name it (and he) deserves: evil.
I read a story about a guy who jumped from a dorm window at a Colorado university.
Hmmm.
His suicide note said, "Junk all you motherfukkers!"
Makes ya wonder.
You forgot to add the PS:
"Canned ham bitchez!"
Silver Slum Lords just showed up to collect the rent. Who cares, it's holding the train a few more days to pick up a few oz's.
Yep - a nice 1% ($0.20) take-down on zero news. Awesome.
Take it down a couple $ more and I'll start buying again.
Maybe they're dumping PM's to buy into equities or Muni's (Harrisburgs) since those seem to be the hottest things going now?
Why? Gold is wealth, paper is, well, just paper. Worse, many people are waking up to the fact that every single central bank on earth only issues air-backed money. A smaller, but also inceasing number of people who have discount brokerage accounts are waking up to the fact that it only costs a single round trip trade to be able to store what wealth they have in the form of units of gold instead of units of air-backed currency. The fact that government are so determined to have cheap money they are hell-bent on pushing interest rates near zero makes the decision even easier. Gold, air? gold, air? Not a hard choice.
In answer to the author's question: "Um, 'cuz gold's in a bubble?".
None of these assets has a right to be up - and pretty soon they won't be anymore.
It's called "deflation".
And BTW, if we're not in deflation, how come the CRB price in gold is SOOO much lower?
P.S. - Gold to $1700.
I am confused by your statement(s).
You say "None of these assets has a right to be up" eventhough they are, while you end your post with a call that Gold will be at $1700.
If we are not in just a deflation, but seeing deflation of assets already owned with a corresponding rise in assets/commodities we need, than this would make sense (not that it has to).
Could it be possible that people are moving out of paper promises and into things that are needed like tangibles (actual stuff)?
Edit: It was not me that junked you BTW.
I couldn't care less if anybody junks me. Junking people is just the childishness one expects on the Internet.
Gold's in a bubble. That's why it's up and that's why it's going to go up even more and even faster. With governments across the world changing or considering changes to their economic policies, of course there's an increased desire for a currency hedge. But the fundamental factors behind gold's rise have long ago stopped mattering.
If people need stuff rather than "paper promises" then why has gold outperformed the CRB so radically, even though we're in a year with big agricultural shortages? If gold is a proxy for commodities with a more-stable relationship to commodities than paper currencies have, then why haven't all commodities followed gold?
But it doesn't matter. Gold is going higher because people know that gold is going higher and that's that.
FOFOA: Gold: The Ultimate Un-Bubble
The comment about junking was to imply inappropriate use of the button if for simple disagreement. If you do not care it is your business, just my attempt to keep the record straight.
You said “gold is in a bubble” period. Without the intent to offend, that kind of blatant statement demeans your overall message, and comes off like a smug ass-hole. There are plenty of fundamental milestones to disprove this as a general statement, and many of the fine minds that post here have gone beyond the call of duty to point them out. The most relevant of these for me is the fact that about 1% of the public is really in gold; if it were in a pure bubble, everyone would be in on it, talking about it everywhere you go. Think in terms of the tech-boom, or real estate. We easily could be in the early stages of a bubble (like 1500 - 2000 on the NASDAQ), but until more people actually talking about it in public, and acting on it, we are far from from the ‘big rise’ movement that dictates bubble-like action.
It (gold) is going up because the value of our Dollar is going down. If gold were to go up more with increased velocity, it would also correspond to an increase in demand due to a precipitous further decline in the value of our currency. There are true fundamental reasons for the rise w/o having to be in a true bubble yet. The currency hedge is a great point, and another fundamental reason for the rise. Maybe the fundamental factors do not appear to matter to you, but they sure do to people who could buy and sell you and I a thousand times over, and they sure do to me as well.
I do not have a clear answer to how the CRBprices in gold has lagged. However. It is obvious that people will always need stuff, and there very well may be a shift into 'stuff' as an investment opportunity occurring right now. Also suspecting it is in part to a laggard effect of the markets in general, and due to the ‘bond market stability fallicy’ still holding some ground in too many minds on the street. I believe the CRB will have a 'coming to Jesus moment' very soon, and for all our sakes, will have no problem being wrong on a matter like this.
BTW, it does indeed matter, on so many levels…
Nice response to the "smug asshole", blackchicken!
Referring to the poster to whom you replied, it is interesting how often arrogance and ignorance walk hand-in-hand.
edit: deleted repeat post.
GOLD VAR MINT
http://williambanzai7.blogspot.com/2010/09/gold-var-mint.html
delete
Deleted
Jim Rickards on CNBC predicting the new fix to Au,after the collapse of the dollar,he predicts a fix at around $5,000,but then confusingly says he doesn't think gold is going to go up?!?He thinks it is fixed?
Can anyone translate into English?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gSnV_krW0U&feature=player_embedded
Gold is not going up in absolute terms. The value of the US$ is going down in relation to gold.
CNBC: it's not a recession, it's a "slow recovery." Honey, I'm not impotent, I just get aroused very slowly
Perhaps Johnny Rotten can answer that question.
Recession bullshit = Depression,Usual Crap News= Stocks up 100+,Gold and Silver= Real Wealth/Embarrasing Price. The markets are like your average shopping centre,very Glitzy and Expensive looking on the outside but full of cheap,foreign,overpriced shit,on the inside.
Magnificent thread......
credit to you Mr Durden .....
If you're this good at this stage wheres it all going to end up??
Gallows humor or new nirvana
luv to all
Obama dollar bills, Bitchez!
http://www.mainstreet.com/slideshow/moneyinvesting/news/obama-dollar-bill