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Golden Flash Crash

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Gold just plunged by $20 for no reason whatsoever. So let's take a guess at what happened here: some ETF caused the NYSE to hit LRP thresholds, causing numerous stocks to "break", and the result is an immediate algorithmic margin call satisfied by gold selling? Or not, at his point does anyone really care. Point is obvious: scare all holders into submission. Can the royal "they" just confiscate everything not in paper form (and thus out of Fed control) already and end this charade?

Update: and gold is now back to pre crash levels. Thank you Johnny 5.

 

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Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:20 | 1231969 AldoHux_IV
AldoHux_IV's picture

Skynet is fully online (yet to be self-aware, but give it a couple of trading weeks) and is targeting any and all small specs looking to turn marginal paper gains in gold/silver into physical thus keeping the masses under the full dependence of indentured servitude (FRNs).

Once it becomes self-aware look for prices to explode to the upside as it will most certainly target the Centrally Planned Authoritarian Regime (CPAR) as its main threat-- goodbye fiat.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:53 | 1232076 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

It has an innocent name....the billion price project.

And its earlier stealth cousin....google's price project 10 years earlier.

Connected to hft and information only available to the connected it is unbeatable.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:53 | 1232246 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Just freakin dyin to hear CPL's take on this.  His Star/stuxnet call was for Wednesday. Trial run?

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 20:52 | 1232415 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

The hits keep coming!

 

NEW YORK – Sony Corp. said Monday that hackers may have taken personal information from an additional 24.6 million user accounts after a review of the recent PlayStation Network breach found an intrusion at a division that makes multiplayer online games.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 20:07 | 1232302 Thomas
Thomas's picture

We are forced to participate in a very nutty game.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:22 | 1231971 Cleanclog
Cleanclog's picture

Yep! That's a good exponential chart.

Another would be to show how the debt ceiling rises.  Given that they'll need to raise by $2 Trillion just to get through the 2012 election, AND, even with Ryan's "draconian described" plan they would still need $6 Trillion in additional borrowing room in the next 10 years . . .

Yet somehow, they say that the deficit will be reduced from 10% of GDP to 2.4% in 2015.  How the hell?  Oh, because the US economy is going to grow at a 15% rate?  Really?  Either taxes are going up to 60%, the dollar will be devalued by another 50%, or they are just lying again.  Oh yeah, that.  Guess ya oughta buy gold.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:25 | 1231993 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

The debt is one thing - far scarier is what will happen to interest payments on treasury issues, once these ridiculously low bond yields start to rise.

Then the deficit will rise exponentially.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:39 | 1232053 Cleanclog
Cleanclog's picture

Absolutely, which also makes this debt ceiling thing crazy.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 23:14 | 1232725 rocker
rocker's picture

Not just the government's deficit.  Who's holding arm mortgages? Ouch.  Credit card debt. Ouch.  

How many people are borrowing thinking this will last forever. Most will be either broke or broken.  But then........

......We are Japan on Steroids. Could that be Bernanke's Secret Plan. Zombie Banks, Zimbabwe Dollars...............

..........But then.....A higher stock market to please Wall Street's Elite.....That's the Secret Sauce...Helicopters.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:04 | 1232117 SilverDreams
SilverDreams's picture

They will actuall need to raise the debt ceiling by about $3.4 T to make it to Nov 2012...it will be interesting to see what a 20%+ raise will do to the markets.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 20:56 | 1232420 sullymandias
sullymandias's picture

If they just priced the debt ceiling in gold, they wouldn't have this problem any more!

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 22:33 | 1232636 rich_wicks
rich_wicks's picture

<img src="http://108.80.56.115/national_debt.jpg" width=800 />

That's the national debt on a log scale.  The red line is if the national debt grew at 9.4% a year for the last 41 years, which (on average) it has.  If the red line holds, we'll be around 33 trillion dollars of debt by 2020.

Government's only function today is to lie.  These budget forecasts are ludicrous, and anybody can see if if they just take a look at historical data.

I doubt we'll reach 33 trillion by 2020, I think we'll hit insolvency.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:35 | 1231972 Michael Victory
Michael Victory's picture

Time to pull back? Buy dat dip.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:20 | 1231974 Smiley
Smiley's picture

Fat fingers bitchez!

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:21 | 1231976 Al89
Al89's picture

Hold tight. Going to be one hell of a ride. 

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:21 | 1231977 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

Hitting the stops until $1520s and if youd take a look at the T&S a nice little 100lot goes through on the GC at $1518.

Peanuts, really.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:47 | 1232059 jelly roll
jelly roll's picture

I can only imagine how pissed the owner of that 100 lot sell stop must be!  Out of his postion and out cool 180k as the crow trades right now.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:21 | 1231978 sabra1
sabra1's picture

OT:

Intel Chief: They Killed “Make Believe Obama”
  •  

 

Kurt Nimmo
Infowrs.com
May 2, 2011

Former Pakistani intelligence chief Hamid Gul went on the Alex Jones Show today and characterized the unverified assassination of Osama bin Laden as symbolic theater.

 

Gul said the event was a “make believe drama” designed to be used for Obama’s upcoming re-election campaign.

The supposed hit as described by the government and the corporate media is the “stuff of folk lore, for legend-making and the ballad,” Gull explained.

Hamid Gull went on to cite the late Prime Minister of Pakistan, Benazir Bhutto, who told David Frost in late 2007 that Osama bin Laden was murdered by Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh, who is also one of the men convicted of kidnapping and killing journalist Daniel Pearl.

The BBC had excised Bhutto’s comment but was forced to reinsert the footage in its version after the unedited version appeared on YouTube.

She was assassinated on December 27, 2007, after a political rally in Rawalpindi, Pakistan.

 

 

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 21:19 | 1232478 RockyRacoon
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 22:39 | 1232652 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

Does anyone besides me remember the Jessica Lynch "Rescue"?

-------------------------------------------

Full disclosure - Jessica Lynch seems pretty admirable to me.  The media circus/melodrama the US preception authorities tried to enshrine her in is another story.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:21 | 1231980 Mongo
Mongo's picture

Remember... it's not gold that crashes... it's YOU

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:24 | 1231984 molecool
molecool's picture

Since I have been previously junked my response to Tyler here:

Point taken and fully agree - I have posted on this very subject on numberous occasions. Examples abound regarding the dollar/pm relationship, the gold/silver ratio as of late, etc. - so no argument there.

Nevertheless - IMNSHO precious metals longs are going to have to endure a correction - the boat is too one sided at this point. There comes the point when the last buyer has bought. Not that I see a glorious future for the U.S. Dollar - mind you. I just don't want to be long PMs right now and here when the g/s ratio is at historic lows and silver has been pointing up vertically.

FWIW - the sheer fact that I was junked for daring to point out a technical reality is rather disappointing. This alone supports my view that emotions are reigning high and that PM longs will get burned.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:24 | 1231995 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

Actually there was a database issue and all comments were lost (we had to repost the article). And yes, since metals trade in a paper world, there will absolutely be a correction, even as central banks continue to turbo print. For all those who believe, correctly, that fiat is doomed, any intermediate variations should be more than irrelevant. OTOH any "traders" should have booked profits last week when our friends at FMX advised to do so.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:31 | 1232018 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Hmmm, Bloomturd was down at the same time.......

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:26 | 1232170 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

There can only be one.

 

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:32 | 1232021 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Unfortunately the USD squeel line has been reverse engineered.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:33 | 1232023 molecool
molecool's picture

Thanks Tyler - appreciate the response. I'm not here to slam gold/silver - in particular not long term. I may be guilty of pointing out the obvious. But I hope it's clear to everyone that the possibility of volatile moves increases when sentiment reaches extreme levels like this (irrespective of what happened just now). IF PMs drop like a rock I would be among the first to take profits quickly.

Everyone else - not sure why I got junked so quickly. Again - when a 'position' has so much emotion attached to it it's usually time to get out. Food for thought.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:24 | 1232164 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

I junked you simply because you seem concerned about getting junked.

Stop mentioning the junking and your comments may actually be read before the junk.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 20:38 | 1232382 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

You are too thin-skinned.  This is fight club.  I junked you, too.

"There comes the point when the last buyer has bought"

When the last buyer shows up, we'll let you know.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 21:24 | 1232490 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

That should be the guy who flips off the lights on his way out of Washington DC.

All this talk about corrections and stuff is humorous.   Fiat money is not to be made from PMs.  Savings/wealth are to be retained from holding PMs.   Anyone seeing it any other way will, of course, subject to the vagaries of the so-called market.   The reason I hold PMs is so I sleep well at night.   Worrying about a 10% or even 20% correction is not in the cards.   My concern is burglars and thieves and corrupt governments with guns.

One must decide -- and soon -- whether one is making more fiat dollars by trading PMs; or, is the object the preservation of buying power and carrying the wealth over the hollowness of a depression.   If one has to use his PMs to survive during very hard times then he has planned badly.

 

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 23:52 | 1232832 rocker
rocker's picture

That's why we, (in the know), own PMs. It is about keeping some real money. Some real cash is not bad either. Bank Holiday's can be hell for sure.

Zero Hedge Rules. What a Class Act for this organization, Tyler is not here to hurt anybody. One can learn much from ZH.

Tyler's comment is on the money, "For all those who believe, correctly, that fiat is doomed, any intermediate variations should be more than irrelevant."   Way to go Tyler.   Hold physical and sleep well all.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 05:44 | 1233151 falak pema
falak pema's picture

"For all those who believe, correctly, that fiat is doomed,..."

This statement is at the core of the battle going on. The Oligarchs do NOT want this to be mainstream USA and world view. As it implies mega-paradgim change and painful, scary and unpredictable world wide asset deflation. Even the Oligarchs don't know what this means in the ensuing real economy tug and pull (as today in the similar monetary tug and pull occurring), and don't want to go to this place too fast. Banks only know how to do ONE thing when 'shit hits the fan' in the real world : spread out the pain over many years and hope future economic growth will pay back accumulated bad debt. As we all know, with three of the main economic zones now hit by stagflation (USA/EU/JAP), the only one to take the world out of this quagmire is China/Brics by a New Marshall plan deal based on their economic growth and accumulated monetary credit base, forever increasing every month.

That is not part of the current Oligarchy's game plan,they aren't 'done' yet, and ready to throw in the towel (if they'll ever be)....So the official line stays..."we kick the can and say our fiats are the ONLY way"...

Your affirmation is NOT current paradigm; it is even heresy ...So I'm not surprised that we'll see these flash storms all through the interim period of next five years while the Oligarchy fights tooth and nail...fasten seat belts! 

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:30 | 1232015 Hearst
Hearst's picture

"the boat is too one sided at this point"

 

Ha ok.  So Silver bullion representing what 0.1% of global assets and Gold maybe 1% is to one sided?  Come on...who are you fooling?

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:32 | 1232031 molecool
molecool's picture

I am not trying to fool anyone. I am merely pointing out a technical pattern - I am not a fundamental trader. Again, why is everyone so emotional about this? I am merely attempting to engage in constructive dialog - maybe I am in the wrong place for that.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:51 | 1232079 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

1. You seem to be a bit sensitive. That usually earns a junk.
2. You accused TD of censorship. That usually earns a junk.
3. I would guess most PM holders are long-term holders here. Getting in and out might cost 10-20% with bid-ask, taxes (if you care), etc. It's tough to try to market time physical.
4. There's been lots of corrections along the way.
5. If you own physical as a hedge, why would you want to get rid of the hedge for a few days, weeks? What happens if you can't get back in?

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:38 | 1232209 Kina
Kina's picture

You're lucky, I dream about getting junked.

 

Getting junked means you have been read and understood, even if they didn't like it.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 20:06 | 1232298 msamour
msamour's picture

Dream granted!

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 21:29 | 1232497 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Seems to be on the way to the wet variety...

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 23:34 | 1232785 DollarMenu
DollarMenu's picture

"Getting junked means you have been read and understood..."

I would not be too sure of that.

For some, the mere appearance of their avatar elicits an immediate 'junk' regardless of the comment,

which probably goes unread.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:45 | 1232230 Harbourcity
Harbourcity's picture

When someone is overly concerned that his girlfriend is going to fool around it usually means he's insecure or untrustworthy.

 

You are overly concerned about people being emotional.  Maybe you are the one who is emotional.  Did you have an opportunity to buy PM's and failed to do so?  Are you now upset at yourself for failing to get on PM's?  Now you are looking for a reason for them to fail and to recover some sense of pride?

 

Don't make the same mistake twice.  Come on it, the water is fine.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:56 | 1232256 Kickaha
Kickaha's picture

@molecool.

All technical traders get trashed here, so don't feel you are being singled out somehow.

The PM holders think it is nuts to view silver as just another commodity.  It is a substitute for fiat currency.  As such, it's value is supposed to exhibit exponential growth as the world abandons the dollar as a medium of exchange.  What you see as a parabolic rise indicative of a pending market top and crash, they see as reaffirmation of the end of fiat, and they fully expect even a steeper slope to that price rise as the dollar crashes and the world turns to precious metals as the only true medium of exchange.

So, when you defend yourself by pointing out that the technicals indicate it is time to sell, you might as well be saying that your car is blue, so it is time to sell silver, and you are therefore treated like an idiot.

I am not so absolute in how I see the current market for silver.  It is undoubtedly composed of both technical speculators and "buy and hold" theorists who have foreseen the impending demise of all fiat currencies and who find any discussion of technical indicators to be an insulting waste of time.  The techies like yourself will trade as your charts dictate, and the technical subset of the market participants will cause volatility in both directions, superimposed over an overall ascending price trend.  Hence, the conclusion here to BTFD!!, because the dollar is being printed into oblivion.

Hence the further advice to hold the PM, and not some paper derivative, since when the SHTF, your paper will be worthless.  That is a second reason that technical traders are treated like imbeciles, since you deal in derivative paper.

If you want to defend yourself, challenge the underlying assumptions of the theorists about hyperinflation and the world turning to gold and silver as the new currency.  If you continue to insist that your technical indicators should be useful as predictors of future price moves in the silver market, you will, at best, be ignored.

As for the emotionalism, perhaps it is warranted given the idea that we are staring into TEOTWAWKI, and nobody in charge seems to give a shit right now, except to score the most luxurious lifeboats for themselves.

 

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 20:00 | 1232270 akak
akak's picture

Excellent post Kickaha!  Well said in every particular.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 22:39 | 1232654 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

I guess, beyond storage, they said the same thing about crude back in 2008...

But it is a very good summary of where we stand at the moment... only time will tell who is right.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 23:37 | 1232789 akak
akak's picture

Actually, I don't recall ever hearing anyone make the same store-of-value claims, or even vaguely analogous claims, for oil as they have and do for the precious metals.  Petroleum and precious metals could NOT be more dissimilar, not the least reason being that oil, unlike the metals, only has value by its very consumption and destruction.  Oil is also neither possible, in any practical sense, for the average person to store, nor is it compact in bulk relative to value, nor stable.  In all measures, petroleum could not be LESS of a practical store of value.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 20:06 | 1232293 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

Spot +1

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 20:55 | 1232418 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Excellent rebuttal.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 21:03 | 1232443 fswalker
fswalker's picture

+1

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 21:06 | 1232446 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Well said.  The other important driver for silver is that it is somewhere between a rigged paper market to a true market determined by physical price discovery.  No one knows just where in that transition it is--but it is clearly not resolved.  Technical analysis and sentiment based contrarian momentum analysis will not be consistently reliable that kind of transition.

Is the end somewhere south of 10 GSR as Sprott predicts?  Or 16 GSR?  In the latter case we are slighty more than halfway there -- and that is ignoring the USDX and pricing only in terms of gold.    

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 21:06 | 1232456 WizDumb
WizDumb's picture

yes.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 21:32 | 1232516 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Most excellent!

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 22:17 | 1232610 fuu
fuu's picture

hip hip

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 22:24 | 1232626 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Bravo !!!

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 23:38 | 1232799 DollarMenu
DollarMenu's picture

Thank you, Kickaha.

 

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:35 | 1232039 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

good point..

When the LBMA/COMEX paper gold price crashes, premiums on physical will moonshoot. That is why you buy physical.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:01 | 1232099 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

"Last week’s total trading volume in Silver was at least 7, 915 million ounces, counting the Comex plus SLV and other Silver ETFs. In other words, 7.5 years worth of Silver supply changed hands last week."

http://peterlbrandt.com/8-years-of-global-silver-supply-changed-hands-last-week/

 

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:39 | 1232040 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Exactly.  PM's are not too one sided, rather they are too revealing of the true state of the gov't printing mess and an indicator of confidence in the 'reserve' currency.  Can't have silver above 1982 highs.... that would be bad in light of a ZIRP environment and "modest inflation", as Benocide says.

PM's show the truth.  And the truth is they are continually beat down because continuing this asshole printing lie is the current MO of these white collar criminals.

 

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:59 | 1232093 Jreb
Jreb's picture

I think what our freind is refering to is leverage. In regards to silver - I fear he may be correct. Holding physical long term is the smartest viable option right now.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:28 | 1232017 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

You give no reason as to why except that 'the trade is one sided' when less than one percent of adults in this country are invested in "gold" and how many of that one percent own the bullion

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:32 | 1232022 fuu
fuu's picture

For the love of god get a decent color pallette on that website.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:36 | 1232034 molecool
molecool's picture

The word is 'palette' - Mr. Dictionary failed us again...

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:45 | 1232057 fuu
fuu's picture

You spotted a typo on the internet? Say it isn't so!

 

Why so emotional on a call there sparky?

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 23:17 | 1232735 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I spotted a typo once.  They gave me a Pulitzer for it.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:31 | 1232026 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

With you on that Mole. Silver at $50 so quick is a pipedream. Unless youre trading the 1min chart and can keep up to date on each tick, you might as well trade something a lot less volatile and less prone to the overnight shenanigans which have been happening so often.

As if 100% in a year is "not enough" for the people who got in earlier anway...

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:39 | 1232046 molecool
molecool's picture

Look - in the end I have yet to see an exponential chart that did not end up in tears. When it will happen - no clue. But a correction will happen sooner than later.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:48 | 1232068 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

How to build internet street credz in 3 easy steps.

1. Set up 16 blogs.

2. Declare asset <x> will go up/down, and post this prediction according to the binary principle on the 16 blogs.

3. After 4 weeks, you should now have a blog with a 100% success rate.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:13 | 1232144 piceridu
piceridu's picture

LOL, Escape...What a great business model! Didn't Cramer do testimonials for that exact model?

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 21:34 | 1232523 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

You sir, have read nassim taleb.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 04:30 | 1233122 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

I have, though I wish he'd stop pontificating. All of his books could be just as efficiently, carrying the exact same message, be written in 100 pages.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:14 | 1232140 chairsatan
Tue, 05/03/2011 - 00:24 | 1232888 Keri at Bankste...
Keri at Bankster Report's picture

 

You've yet to see an exponential chart that didn't end in tears?  You mean like this one?

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/images/2011/Mar/qe2-Figure1.png

:)

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:38 | 1232044 malusDiaz
malusDiaz's picture

Yeah.... You where right gold would correct to 700$... it did... that was in the past...

 

But you kept playing the same EWT newsletter that gold was in a bubble... all the way up from 1150...

 

Same thing with silver ....   Hard to create credibility that way.  

 

 

Always Contrarians are a good contrary indicator!  Psyops your Psyops.

 

I don't care, I left and got physical! (But thank you for the site, I still have my tee-shirt)

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:42 | 1232050 molecool
molecool's picture

In the last year I made two reversal calls on gold and silver (not counting yesterday as my timing was off) - I nailed both of them by the day. It's all out there - my blog is my track record in case anyone cares.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:03 | 1232111 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Molecool

 

Maybe some of the push-back you're feeling is because you're talking the 'trading' language and some of us that buy physical PMs are in it for wealth preservation (i.e, the long haul).   I'd wager that most of the ZH PM zealots (of which I am a member) would like nothing more than a correction in PMs to increase the FRN to PM exchange ratio.    Top calling PMs have failed in the last decade.   Given the dynamics of the current environment - they'll probably fail for many years in this decade.    This isn't the time to part with physical on a intermediate 'top call'.   You may never be able to buy it back.    I'm not into the paper metal trade, your strategy may work there, it doesn't really matter to most of us since that feels like a rigged game.

 

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 20:58 | 1232424 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

TV ACRES: Gestures & Handshakes > Raccoon Lodge Greeting (The Honeymooners)

different values, molecool.  gold, silver, life.  be prepared.  simple, dumbass stuff. 

take FRN money A from pocket A.  trade for PM, place money B in pocket B.

rinse.  repeat.  the end. 

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 21:00 | 1232436 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

so, even if we have different values @ PMs. hi, and feel free to put up a link to your blog since we know what you are saying, and after all, price is price. 

yep!

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 23:01 | 1232701 lawrence1
lawrence1's picture

Well put. Physical only, dont feed the beast. Either we are right about the end of fiat, or wrong. If someone has stepped foreward to dispute our reasoning, I would like a link to that. Wealth preservation is my goal, but I note too that PM appreciation in fiat is beating inflation. If fofoa is right, those with gold will not trade for fiat in the future.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 23:25 | 1232763 Mec-sick-o
Mec-sick-o's picture

Trade=speculate, gamble, sometimes win, eventually loose your shirt, adrenaline rush.

Buy&Hold=preserve wealth for a relative long time, then use it when needed.

Buy&Hold is the safest: governments cannot hold back the temptation of the "free" tax available to them by the inflation of paper notes.

Most people on this world find gold and silver valuable.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 05:29 | 1233146 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

I focus on the principles on WHY PMs are rising in price:  Out-of-control Govt (ALL Govts!) spending leads the pack!

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:11 | 1232133 SME MOFO
SME MOFO's picture

nope, noone cares. 

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:11 | 1232137 hayleecomet
hayleecomet's picture

I'll vouch for Mole with his past calls.  I don't understand all the junks when someone is trying to express a logical POV.  It's certainly more informative than "gold bitchezzzz"! 

And I also wear my "Evil" tee!

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 21:39 | 1232530 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

You can be right as hell about "prices" on PMs.  By price I mean how many fiat dollars it takes to get a bit o' the shiny.   What difference does it make if you are 100% correct?  I'll tell ya:  If I had the confidence that your crystal ball (forget TA) was perfect I'd use your calls to buy in at the dips when I had accumulated the excess fiat dollars.   That would be my only use for your info.   I would not be trading in paper PMs because the house of cards could fall right in the middle of my one-of-a-lifetime trade.   Nope.  Gimme the physical.  Since I don't trust anyone's analysis of tops/bottoms/swings, I'll just have to depend on the old seat of the pants.   Thanks for your ardent, though misdirected, advocation of a position.  I just think that you may be aiming at the wrong audience.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 15:13 | 1244517 Trader7
Trader7's picture

Mole,

I got thoroughly junked and insulted one time for mentioning the author of an article saying to "buy silver now" was written by a silver broker, and could be considered to have a conflict of interest. Well I was telling the truth, and the truth tends to piss off lots of ZH commenters. I for one appreciete your insights.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 20:27 | 1232347 Edmund Dantes
Edmund Dantes's picture

You are a fucking moron

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:24 | 1231985 Phillips Capital
Phillips Capital's picture

My guess: JPM prop room installed "SheepleDestroyer 3.9 : Armageddon" but accidentally set it loose on gold instead of silver. The erroneous parties have been suspended. 

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:30 | 1232012 Phillips Capital
Phillips Capital's picture

Gold's wetting it's pants now as silver is lifting off it's lil intraday trendline with tenacity.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:22 | 1231986 MGA_1
MGA_1's picture

I think the response to Ben B's speach last week scared the daylights out of the monetary authorities.  Gotta keep da' faith (in da' dollar).

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:25 | 1231988 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

It worked so well last night at 6pm with silver.  Why not try it again with gold?

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:26 | 1231991 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Unprecedented move for the real reserve currencie.  Whoever is pulling sell orders has a tonne of leverage.  To add, platinum ran up all day.  Just saying.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:28 | 1231992 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

Are these the tell-tale signs that COMEX is bust? Death throws?

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:24 | 1231997 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

Oh well.  It did just test the trend, so now it has room to fly.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:27 | 1232000 cswjr
cswjr's picture

Can't trust those interns and junior associates.  Gold was supposed to be taken down by 0602 hour, not 1802.

 

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:26 | 1232005 Missiondweller
Missiondweller's picture

If anything this is more evidence you should be selling paper while buying the physical.

 

 

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 20:04 | 1232283 Cleanclog
Cleanclog's picture

Is GLD diverging from physical gold now?  SLV from physical silver?  That's when we "know".  And unfortunately, probably close to the time we hear the government declare individuals may not possess gold, ala post depression.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:29 | 1232006 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Liquidity Replenishment Points.

Is it like microsoft achievement points.

You stock pumped 30 million shares of worthless ARM Holdings Inc. Achievement unlocked. Promotion to Master Seargent Super Stock Pumper Important Person.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:30 | 1232014 Dan The Man
Dan The Man's picture

 

could certain rich and influential saudi arabs be bitter at the death of their beloved son?

 

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:31 | 1232019 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

 


PRESS RELEASE

===========

 

The Central Bank of DoChenRollingBearing is pleased to announce the exchange of Silver Eagles for Gold Eagles in addition to purchasing more with FR confetti.  This the largest amount of gold ever purchased at one time in the Central Bank's history.

This of course ensures that we are at a near a top (sorry, topcallingtroll).

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:43 | 1232047 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Probably consolidating in the forties. You are ok!
I miss my eagles. I am emotionally attached to them.
Nothing like holding them in your hand.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:13 | 1232145 anonnn
anonnn's picture

OT---DoChenRollingBearing--thanks your data reply yesterday re Japan bearing quality. Helpful for me.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:24 | 1232169 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

You're welcome.

I am curious, why are you interested in bearing quality?  Hardly anyone I know (except my in-laws and our bearing customers there in Peru) knows anything about bearings.

:)

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 01:27 | 1232986 Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

announce the exchange of Silver Eagles for Gold Eagles...

 

68:1 Oct.2010

31:1 April 2011

34:1 today

 

Double up your PMs in 6 months, not bad.  Best part is you don't need a benny buck to do it.  "For all debts public and private"

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:35 | 1232028 Jab Cross Hook
Jab Cross Hook's picture

Lotsa gold in Osama's crowns.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:35 | 1232032 legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

ha ha ha, come on Jimmy, is that all you got?   Ewww, I am so scared!  Hike the margins again!  LMFAO! I never thought holding PMs could be this much fun!  Bring it on, drop the price I buy more, the price hikes I celebrate, so fortunate to have gotten in low enough that there is nothing you can do to hurt me.....thanks be to god....

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:53 | 1232086 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

You sir, apparently don't understand that by hiking margins the bankruptcy of the entire western world has been averted.  Good luck to you sir, because the markets are a ramdom walk and gold has no return.  LOL.  

When your house is afire, throwing things out the window IS return.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:37 | 1232038 apberusdisvet
apberusdisvet's picture

All I know is that  my youngest granddaughter will have enough money for her education.  I hope she will never encounter the bums on the freeway ramps with signs asking for $$$.  You know, people like the gold bear trolls that all have hindsight but no foresight.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:35 | 1232041 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

These volatile moves should be expected when any asset is about to go much higher, much faster. It's like using a hammer. You've got to pull back before slamming the price higher. We've also entered the time when $5+ moves up and down in Silver and $25+ in Gold will be common. Thor is coming for the Shorts with a hammer and vengeance.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:40 | 1232049 Quintus
Quintus's picture

Thor is coming for the Shorts with a hammer and vengeance.

 

Plus some Furious Anger, I hope.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 01:06 | 1232970 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Thor's hammer indeed.

Got a mention in the Bin Laden Blues...

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/05/02/aaaahhhve-bin-laden-see-i-ave/

ORI

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:46 | 1232064 monopoly
monopoly's picture

+1. Yup, best to not be on margin now. It is going to be a wild ride.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:39 | 1232048 Silver Bug
Silver Bug's picture

Volatility is going parabolic. This is how the big boys play. Bring it on.

 

http://silverliberationarmy.blogspot.com/

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 21:23 | 1232489 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Yes.  Anyone playing with margin from here forward is going to get skinned, period.  Buy and hold.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:40 | 1232051 Racer
Racer's picture

Crashes in silver crashes in gold, OBL killed and conveniently  dumped at sea   Hmmmmmm some plates really must be in serious danger of stopping the spin process and showing up that all the other plates are just reflected images

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:47 | 1232060 monopoly
monopoly's picture

Yes agree. Going to be like an E ride on Space Mountain. My physical is secure, have not sold one miner and will not unless Obama resigns, Geithner is fired and The Bernank is taken away in handcuffs. That would be the start.

Must admit though, a lot easier to take red on screens when you are 0% margin. I never do margin anymore. Might take a call, put or two, but that is it. I have to sleep at night. Like what I got.

 

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:45 | 1232063 Manzilla
Manzilla's picture

Now it's even lower. Holy volatility Batman. The smoking baby is now up to 4 packs a day.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:50 | 1232067 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

Woe, woe, woe, horsies!  Nobody knows what magnitude of shakeout we are going to experience.  From a position trade viewpoint, either there is going to be a last gasp shakeout, or there is not.  But I don't believe for a second that his currency is going anywhere but down.  There is too much disfunction to shake me out, and I have a ten year trend to tell me that I am right.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:51 | 1232069 monopoly
monopoly's picture

But one thing I will not do is bash those that went short today. Kudos to them, they made out well. No need to scream and be vile about it. Markets move both directions and those that were playing the dark side in miners and metals did well....for today.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:52 | 1232075 Silverhog
Silverhog's picture

I think we have seen nothing yet. Fiat meets Goldzilla. My bet is on Goldzilla.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:57 | 1232087 monopoly
monopoly's picture

All military bases have increased alert status. NY city has heightened security status. Oh this is going to turn out just lovely.

But remember all, as most of you know, a 7-10% correction in gold is not the end. We have all seen this before, it is the nature of the beast. Gets rid of all the day traders, weak holders and then slams the shorts. This may last a while but I am changing 0.

Have no interest in this market outside of protecting my dollars. As long as you are not on margin you will always be safe.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:58 | 1232089 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Problem:

Gold prices getting out of hand

Solution:

Print more paper

 

Like I said.

Virtually all inflation problems can be whipped by a tsunami of paper.

What's to stop the Fed from unleashing 10,000 pallets of "Short gold at market" COMEX tickets?

They could completely and totally overwhelm the physical demand by an unlimited supply of paper.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:01 | 1232105 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

It would seem that gold would ultimately disappear in such scenario, bad money (short paper) driving out good money.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:03 | 1232109 lieutenantjohnchard
lieutenantjohnchard's picture

true, but then those with a lot of cash could step up and demand delivery of the metal. don't fool yourself. if the public and other entities get a lot of gold and silver it makes them less controllable. if one has gold and silver and oil in a world of paper you have more control of your destiny.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 21:28 | 1232500 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

"What's to stop the Fed from unleashing 10,000 pallets of "Short gold at market" COMEX tickets?"

The market for physical and paper would diverge.  Anyone interested in physical would trade elsewhere.  The COMEX is not needed to exchange gold.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:58 | 1232098 bothsidesnow
bothsidesnow's picture

Maybe, but my FX account ticker says it was a large hedge fund sell at market open.

Who knows, but makes sense to me.

Regardless of this and that, he said/she said, margin increases, conspiracy theories, so on and so forth, the technical picture is starting to weaken.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:05 | 1232118 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

The HF sales would explain the rather large lots going off at market wherever there bids. I mentioned up above, but i had a quick run through of the T&S at 2100GMT and it was mostly 20lots and above, definitely institutional size going through.

Agree on technical picture in short term, though i believe gold is much stronger than silver here and should continue to be.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:02 | 1232101 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

"Last week’s total trading volume in Silver was at least 7, 915 million ounces, counting the Comex plus SLV and other Silver ETFs. In other words, 7.5 years worth of Silver supply changed hands last week."

http://peterlbrandt.com/8-years-of-global-silver-supply-changed-hands-last-week/

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:03 | 1232112 Clint Liquor
Clint Liquor's picture

7.5 years worth of Silver supply changed hands last week

Not even 1000th of that much Silver changed hands. Sounds like a bunch paper did though.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:18 | 1232149 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

Exactly, that's what the page is pointing out.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:34 | 1232189 I only kill chi...
I only kill chickens and wheat's picture

Roger that Clint. I'm happy with my in hand holdings. It's my insurance, dumping the rest of my Frn's for the BBB's, and maybe a 1000 gal propane tank to add to my pitiful 500 gal. There's a lot my HARD assets that are IMO are worth more than the value of PM's. I'll keep holding my "insurance" while slowly pulling all $ out of my Roth and IRA's.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:36 | 1232205 s0lspot
s0lspot's picture

Yep my thought precisely.

 

Fuck paper ! ; go gamble in Vegas you asswipes!

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:05 | 1232108 The Axe
The Axe's picture

Forget the Comex...Direct Edge let 4 stocks including BAX, Becton and several others ramp up 20% after hours.....crazy-broken-  SEC watching porn again...  

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:04 | 1232113 Silverhog
Silverhog's picture

Paper Gold & Silver are like the dollar. All three are sinking lower into history.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:07 | 1232114 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

I did a post on this over the weekend but basically what it said, among other things, is that the price of gold is axiomatically atypical when compared to value of the dollar. It is a far more compelling relationship when it is juxtaposed against the US debt.

Now seeing as there is this whole debt ceiling issue, and it is not conclusive that the debt ceiling will be raised, do you see how PM's have been stopped dead in their tracks? This is because debt = money, and unless the US takes on more debt than the sycophants behind the scenes can't create inflation by monetizing debt through the Primary Dealers.

My argument is that the debt ceiling will not be raised without massive concessions on government spending by Obama (which I cannot see happening) So until that moment has apexed and it becomes definitive on what will become of that issue PM's are very dangerous as they are one of major beneficiaries of the QE printing scheme.

I have become suspicious that this Bin Laden thing was a ploy to boost his approval ratings as to allow him more leverage to play hardball on this issue.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:10 | 1232124 penisouraus erecti
penisouraus erecti's picture

"I have become suspicious that this Bin Laden thing was a ploy to boost his approval ratings as to allow him more leverage to play hardball on this isse."

Makes sense.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:22 | 1232159 akak
akak's picture

I have become suspicious that this Bin Laden thing was a ploy to boost his approval ratings as to allow him more leverage to play hardball on this issue.

Bob, I am as firmly suspicious of the timing and staging of this whole "Kill Osama!" kabuki theater as I am "suspicious" that if I drop the mug that I am holding at this moment, it will fall to the floor.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:25 | 1232176 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

More play for the gallery. Last time they ANNOUNCED cuts in the region of $35bn, but in actuality, it was ultimately about $500m (although, this obviously wasn't announced by the MSM). It's a fucking joke, and there is ZERO chance any credible cuts will be announced.

Anyone suggesting to tackle the problem will be voted out, and since we can be certain that politicians are infinitely more interested in their own careers than the good of the country, ...

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:06 | 1232121 TideFighter
TideFighter's picture

Before you guys convince me silver is going to crash you must first convince me as to what will replace the dollar. 

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:12 | 1232125 Dan The Man
Dan The Man's picture

 

...and you'll have to define a "crash".  in terms of what paper money?

...tis the money that's crashing

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:18 | 1232157 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

My silver and gold didn't crash...it stayed put.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 21:38 | 1232527 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Silver and gold aren't going anywhere.  At some point, now?, the COMEX price will start to lose meaning.  When fiat goes to zero, paper gold goes to zero.  Real gold will still have value.  I expect that real gold will be at least part of the new reserve currency scheme, but even if it isn't, it will still retain value far superior to FRNs and paper instruments.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:27 | 1232173 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

No joy at the headlines today stating "Justice Has Been Done" with Osama Bin Laden having been killed.

Instead the headlines should read "A Great Injustice Has Been Done" with our country having been destroyed before our very eyes.

 The timing of the announcement regarding Bin Laden’s demise seems suspicious to say the least. Why late Sunday night right after the Asian markets opened with silver rising and gold going straight up rapidly $15 do we suddenly need to know that Osama was killed?

Why is this such an important event that it requires an Alert, Alert, Alert message to flash across my television screen and a constant picture of the White-washed House to be displayed with Geraldo Rivera spewing propaganda while an orchestrated crowd of young people celebrate outside the gates of or Capital?

 It is obvious this is an orchestrated event that is intended to make us all get out our flags and wave them and rally round the chief in a flood of blind patriotism. Forget about our poor ship of state affairs, and feel proud to be to be Americans again.

I can’t help but see the planned demolition of World Trade Center building 7 playing over and over again in my mind’s eye.

I feel an uncomfortable and eerie sense of doom approaching like the finger of God descending on Egypt bringing death to all first-born of Egypt.

We have a President who in all likelihood is not a citizen, who is probably a Muslim, proclaiming that justice has been done?

So let it be written, so let it be done he says from his white-washed house.

I am disgusted and like Thomas Jefferson... "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever."

Andrew Jackson was right when he said... "You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I will rout you out" 

 I find myself no longer able to Pledge Allegiance to the flag anymore as my conscience won’t let me violate my core beliefs. I keep hoping that I will awake some day and see a V for Vendetta march on Washington on the television news. I believe that 911 was at least partially an inside job! Since as our fearless leader has stated that ‘justice has been done’ and we are now all safer because of that, will we dismantle the TSA, withdraw our troops from numerous unconstitutional wars and set our national course a right?

 No, I am sure we will not. I find myself looking for another country to move to for safety to escape the coming Sodom and Gomorrah moment but I find that seemingly impossible so I try my best to protect myself and family with silver and gold investments.

I know that a nation that murders innocent children and accepts moral depravity is doomed, doomed, doomed and that we are no longer blessed but cursed.

Even so, I will attempt to do good as far as it is within my ability to do so and to make sure I don’t steal from my neighbor. God help us!

So let it be written, so let it be done.
www.lemetropolecafe.com

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:41 | 1232225 PrDtR
PrDtR's picture

Indeed, my friend, I is with you.. I respect almighty G_D.. and fear for the repercussions to come from our unrighteousness..

I DO NOT celebrate the death of OBL but mourn that he will never know the LOVE of Jesus Christ.. I pray that those who followed him choose a different path.. one that leads to LIFE not DEATH.. the second death, eternal separation from G_D!

www.youtube.com/amgineco

Check it out! the EVIDENCE!

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 21:29 | 1232498 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Noooooo!

Son of Gunslinger.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 00:53 | 1232944 Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

I DO NOT celebrate the death of OBL but mourn that he will never know the LOVE of Jesus Christ..

 

You mean he isn't in the presence of 72 virgins?  How can eternal life in the presence of 72 virgins be considered a reward.  I mean if they're virgins for eternity, what's the point?  Seriously, hasn't anyone else ever thought this thing out?

 

I laugh when it's said Judiaism is like elementary school, christianity is High School but the 5th century prophet finally got it right and now the university is upon us.  A belief that resorts to violence for ridicule or sarcasm is hardly an "improvement", if indeed christianity was the foundation of this approach to faith. imo.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:29 | 1232180 andilinks
andilinks's picture

These were failed attempts to induce panic in the PM market. Those who failed are now in a panic themselves. Or maybe they can afford another attempt before they panic.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:27 | 1232181 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

No update from General Jim today?

I thought $1,650 was "in the bag"...

LOL....

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:44 | 1232220 akak
akak's picture

Bitter much?

Maybe he's simply too busy wiping his ass with Lululemon stocks --- down almost 4% today.  You know what that means, Lobo(tomized)Faker, don't you?  BLOWTORCHED!!!!!

How's that burn feelin' for ya today, eh?
Here, let me dress all those burns of yours with some nice rock salt ....

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 21:38 | 1232529 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

LULU being down doesn't faze Robo, because he doesn't own any.  He is just a troll.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 22:30 | 1232637 Fred C Dobbs
Fred C Dobbs's picture

I read Jim Sinclair's blog too. 

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 23:43 | 1232811 owensdrillin
owensdrillin's picture

 

If someone asked me a month ago if I would be happy on May 2nd with gold being at $1,546, I'm pretty sure of my answer. My GLD options did quite well in that time Robot.

I think General Jim will be proven right before too long. Buy the $1,520 dip if there is one. Maybe you will be living out in Woodland Hills instead of overlooking the freeway if you do.

Majority Conservative government just elected in Canada. I guess we get to keep our guns and gold.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:49 | 1232242 Kina
Kina's picture

Gold is having trouble correcting even with blatant market manipulation which you would think would accelerate any correction. Despite the continuous take downs in PM the corrections are hard to come by and short lived.

How is a lasting correction going to come if continuous cartel naked short selling seems to not be able to do the job?

Just what would gold do with no market manipulation, if there had been no cartel corrupting activity?

 

Saying that gold is over bought needs to reference the state of the USD. People are maybe not buying it as a trade and more as insurance, thus overbought has no meaning. That state of over bought needs to refernce the state of the USD and economy and not how much it has gone up.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:55 | 1232261 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

The USD is the bubble...people are choosing gold and silver as the new store of wealth.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!