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Goldman Goes Goo-Goo For Gold: "Gold Market Poised For A Rally As US Real Rates Head Lower"
Goldman dedicates 9 pages to a regime change in which it goes openly bullish on gold. The report is attached, which we present without commentary but as always, if there is one flashing red light saying the peak price for any asset has been hit, it is a Strong Buy signal by Goldman. The report will likely result in a brief pop in spot over the next 24 hours as the idiot money rushes into the latest Goldman trap. Alas, it also means that GS is now offloading. Be very wary of market dynamics over the next month.
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Maybe later, not now. Real rates are punishingly high. Interest free loans from HUD while homes aren't moving? What more do you need to know?
Whoaaaa........
One shouldn't make gold price predictions based on a recommendation from GS. They (GS) have to make some correct calls to justify what they charge their clients.
Since when?
Jesus, now for the first time I am worried about my gold position.
Because Goldman likes gold, or because Tyler hates it so much?
Tyler hates Gold?
Or is it that Tyler hates GS and since GS now loves Gold, Tyler hates anything GS loves, meaning Gold. Nothing permanent if that's the case. As soon as GS hates Gold, Tyler will fall in love with Gold all over again.
It looks like The Powers That Be are getting quite worried about Gold considering they've started the overt psychological games again, only this time with GS headlining. TPTB don't usually bring out the big guns unless they feel they're needed.
Whew, a GS psyops ploy then Cog D? We can deal with that; especially considering that those sort of endeavours at times can easily, quickly get out of hand and blow up egregiously in the faces of those attempting to execute them.
Regards
psyops ploy then Cog D...at times can easily, quickly get out of hand and blow up egregiously
Let's not go all Norman over this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzVxsYzXI_Y
I am confused now - must lie down and have a drink or two and ponder my navel.
Short term movements in gold are irrelevant to those of us who buy and hold gold. If it goes down because of GS machinations I will just buy it a little faster and little more than do now.
It will be interesting to see what happens over the next couple of months or so.
...
ZH community! Plan your ATM visit tomorrow (Thursday) to pull out $500 (or local currency). Now's our chance to send a Signal that the banks' computers will pick up. Earlier today on other threads I saw more of you guys on board, including people's names I did not recognize.
Going viral?
"Let's Deflate the Bitchez!"
It'll dump for a week, and then recover. So what...
I am ready and on board for the atm visit
Mi a fenét, szamolya be! 109,122.66 forint holnap.
Visz'lat
Azt hiszem, csak 106,777.50 forint more or less. jo napot kivanok
I tried to reply to you; but it ended up way down the page for some reason.
Take Courage !, (courage pale ale); all's well. it's a sincere anouncement on their part and it's almost certainly right. Not to worry.
Oh I get it. So now Goldman knows that we know that we should be doing the opposite of what they say so now they say what we should do to try to get us to do the opposite of what they say which is exactly the opposite of what we should do. Right?
For clarification...(start at 2min) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUee1WvtQZU
Yeah, that's it exactly..................I think. :>)
Let's give George a shot at explaining this approach...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKUvKE3bQlY
awesome!!!
Haha! out to Victorio, Cork and CA.
Thanks for that.
The Goldman strategy has not changed. They don't care about the 2% of investors that are fully concious and onto their game. The remaining 98% of predictable reflexive response chumps will keep them happy and ever more wealthy.
Except that ratio is changing. Just look at the stock market exodus and the current spot gold.
Nice work there homeboy.
Thanks yo.
Your avatar is one of my heroes along with his sister Lozen. As Gen. Crook said "the tiger of the human species".
Hahahah! +100
+1. exatamente
Oh my Victorio could be right
Yeah, GS thinks they can make gold bugs nervous enough to sell. Or GS may have squirreled away a stash of real metal and they are ready for the moonshot. It may be, at long last, time to consult the I Ching. But that raises more questions. Go with the Confucian oriented translation or the mystical Taoist oriented translation? What would GS do?
The report is attached, which we present without commentary but as always, if there is one flashing red light saying the peak price for any asset has been hit, it is a Strong Buy signal by Goldman.
lol Tyler, good one!
:-)
I think it will be revealed that this is the exception that proves the rule. Gold just checked out the bottom of its bull market price channel and it should be rallying for a month or so, at least; I don't see any problems for that forecast. As far as Goldman goes; well even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
They (GS) have to tell the truth once in a while, or they become predictable. Their prediction of a gold rally, which will probably happen, won't save the status quo in the long run. As we all know, the size of the debt(s) outstanding can never be repaid, and only a world-wide debt reset can clean up this mess.
This made me laugh: all you need is Gold, Bonds, and Powder...
http://www.thereformedbroker.com/2010/08/11/investment-advice-from-grandpas-medicine-cabinet/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+thereformedbroker+%28http%3A%2F%2Fthereformedbroker.com%2Ffeed%29
Tyler hates gold?
You must be joking. Or blind...
Why don't we all wait for Tyler to just declare.
Tyler, please set the record straight.
Here is the hidden prediction:
If you have physical, just relax.
If you play paper gold, sell half at the first pop and sell the rest at the secondary pop.
If you play paper gold, sell half at the first pop and sell the rest at the secondary pop.
If you own paper gold you better get out while you can. I agree with TD but perhaps for different reasons. A major take-down has been expected by several experts I respect. I wouldn't sell any physical because this is not expected to be of a long duration. It will present a buying opportunity for those of us that await such a gift.
Disagree; wrong analysis; gold market should continue to rally for at least a month.
Kinda OT, but:
If ZH was a TV show, it would *have* to be cancelled. TPTB would not stand for the masses knowing what's really going on.
"The ZeroHedge Hour with Tyler Durden." TD would be killed in the name of "National Security".
"Your Honor, he deserved killin."
don't worry, they read here and this is a simple case of reverse psychology. they want to shake the tree.
At worst this only means that a correction is coming. Nothing more.
If I were GS and couldn't get the price down I would put out a buy rec of say $1300 and hope to scoop up any and every bit of gold when the sheeple sell $1300, they will get a hell of a lot more at 1300 than they will between 1100-1200 and if gold is going parabolic whats a coulpe hundred bucks.
But thats just me...
Don't worry mate; it's a rational prediction; not a head fake. My own unrelated methods tell me we're rallying for the next month or so. Cheers.
Wishful thinking, which has almost never failed me, says $1650 by Canadian Thanksgiving. I'm sure of it cause I'd like to sell a cupful of sluggish miners for a spicy plate of FAZs and TBTs, maybe a garnish of SDOWs.
full court press on this one ..... two of the crawl blurbs on Bloomberg are now about gold, and goldman's reco.
the beat down, when they've got the boat full, will be savage. Consolation is, we know that they know that we know what kind of shape they are really in, what kind of shape the dollar is in.......
and, this is probably the last round up. after beating us all senseless and leaving us for dead,
gold is going to 2k and probably well beyond, because just cause you can beat a few long time bugs bloody in the paper markets, doesn't mean you can change reality......
You shoudn't but maybe have some diversification into Silver as GS might well try to corner the Silver market instead of being active into Gold as their paper suggest...
I had the same feeling, if The Squid is pushing it then something must be wrong.
If the Eurobanks are running out of USD, the Squid will need liquidity. Check and double check.
shit. so they are going to hardball the gold market next week....great.....
pack the masses in and then set the boat on fire. well....at least we know that we'll have a great buying op in another couple of weeks....
If you're in physical do not worry about this.
Yes, buying opportunity if GS stacks the deck and smacks gold down by advising their customers to get on the wrong side of a trade.
*** What is wrong with everyone who does business with GS???!!! ***
I have to sell an ounce tomorrow. I got a strange feeling about it. It's either going to go way up or way down but it will be very very temporary and I can't hold out through it.
I think this is where we get into some serious heavy duty volatility.
We've been waiting for it, the volatility I mean.
Are you from California?
Since Goldman is a pathelogical liar and everything they say is designed to create a response that favors them and is to the detriment to everyone else, they logical assumption is that they will manipulate Gold to crater... or at least they believe they can make it crater.
Or they are creating double think.
I think they created people becoming negatively suggestible.
Double negatives: "Unusually Uncertain"
or their sell side analysts are just really really really rubbish? Sell side analysis isn't about getting calls right anyway, its about hand-holding buy siders and providing the illusion of control over an unknowable future. Its a joke.
I'm not saying the hate isn't warranted, but really there isn't some conspiracy to punk you guys, because the average sales/research folk at these banks just ain't that smart. The conspiracy theories give these dumbo's way to much credit.
Disclaimer - not saying there isn't manipulation of PMs from these guys, but that it isn't done through the toe-rag crap that the research department runs out.
so that means Goldman (I didn't know it was a person, i thought it was a corporation) is great , since we want to buy more gold, right?
I will buy more when the inevitable crash comes. I'm not selling now, though. That would be lunacy.
Imagine if a great deal of time were spent burning thier customers such that everyone started doing the exact opposite, then they turned around and burned everyone who took the other side. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but with this suspicion in mind, I simply pay NO attention to what those clowns have to say.
+1 Im begrudgingly keeping my core position and will buy more if/when the opportunity arises. Besides, there are plenty of other opportunities to make money elsewhere.
Good idea. As long as the PRC keeps telling the west it doesn't really care about Au while simultaneously telling its citizens to load up (along with a litany of other variables remaining more or less unchanged) I'm sitting tight.
Regards
I'm really not sure why people perpetuate the myth that 'China is telling its citizens to buy gold', when they are simply not.
Yes, they are liberalizing the gold market (have been since 2001), but there is no official or unoffical government campaign in the slightest to actively get anyone to buy; which is ultimately more bullish for gold.
china doesn't need an official campaign telling citizens to buy gold, they just need to allow it.
here is what harvey says tonight...http://harveyorgan.blogspot.com/
Really TGR? Hunh. You sound so sure... admittedly, my Mandarin/Cantonese are nonexistent. How're yours?
Regards
My Mandarin is pretty good - not quite fluent - but high conversational. Cantonese a little less fluent due to its greater complexities, but I can still understand it.
Expat of 12 or 13 years in China now, and was involved in 2003/04 in the establishment of a gold-backed savings scheme for a HK-headquartered Chinese bank (with branches in the mainland).
Breezer1 is on the right track - the very fact gold is increasingly available is bullish enough - and more bullish by the fact the government is not telling 'the citizens' to buy. There is increasing organic demand in China from more people who are getting suss of stocks and property (the two key things Chinese are enamoured with).
In fact, the only official government-orchestrated media about whether to buy or sell gold I have ever seen was this February just prior to Chinese New Year (the peak buying time for gold in China). It was a Chinese Airlines Association magazine (in every seat of China's airlines, first and business class, and all lounges) which is the best way to reach a captive audience and when most Chinese travel.
The article, in both Chinese and English, states that gold was/ or may be in a bubble, and that in fact people should be weary of buying it. If anything, it was an article with an overall negative slant on gold, and it was straight from a government mouthpiece.
The less than a handful of 1-minute CCTV (China Central Television) clips on objective developments in the Chinese gold and silver markets do not amount to a campaign, let alone the fact that CCTV only holds some 17% of television market share and there are about 19 CCTV channels (the chances of many people seeing one clip, on one channel, are remote at best).
Interesting TGR. Respect. You're right, mb 'telling' is too strong of a word.
But you yourself admit that there are spots on CCTV extolling at least production numbers, and so I assume that you've seen at least some of them. And you consider their context insignificant or not openly encouraging?
I understand the principle that the people of China are strong savers and have historically had a high regard for hard assets like Au/Ag anyway, but that is exactly why it seems to me that any state sponsored encouragement, however subtle, could have a large effect on world markets, given the size of the Chinese population.
If so, 17% of a billion and a half people seems like a pretty decent sized market by anyone's standards. I don't even know if Twilight has that many viewers all told in NA (I certainly hope not, but I wouldn't hold my breath over it.)
Thanks for your insight.
Regards
That's ok, I didn't mean to come off as chastizing but just putting out a few facts.
Yes, there is the occassional (and by that I mean very very limited in the grand scheme) news report on developments in the gold industry in China on CCTV. They are objective only, and are way less frequent than say the huge number of news reports on stocks, for example. I don't watch CCTV religiously - but do watch just for a domestic perspective on the Chinese economy - and do know of a handful of reports.
I don't see anything anywhere as state-sponsored encouragement though - but at a reasonable stretch you could say any report is positive for gold in that it at least lets more people know of its availability.
So yes, it is encouraging - but there simply isn't enough (or any) reports to justifiably say there is an official campaign of telling citizens to buy. But you are correct in the sense you can say any coverage is positive.
The only thing the 'state' is really doing is what it said it would do in 2000; liberalize the domestic financial and trading markets to international levels, which includes the trading of commodities and precious metals.
That said, I am very very bullish on gold in China, as it is increasingly available in physical across the country, and via the major banks - and YoY demand continues to rise. When the bulk of Chinese really do get into the gold bull it will seriously affect physical supply.
I'd just point out though, on that 17% figure, the rare objective reports are only on some news channels, and not every one of those 19 CCTV channels at all carries the news. So, the amount of people seeing the odd objective report would be considerably less than 17%.
In any case, with the major banks now offering physical (plus numerous gold savings schemes and trading platforms) increasingly more people are turning to gold naturally, irrespective of any such objective reports.
Here is a good video TGR about China and the gold frenzy:
Chinese dumping worthless currency for gold (17May10)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbUvvfJakfI
Thanks, I will watch it later this evening, I can't at work right now.
The only thing I can say is that it is extremely highly likely that China's central bank will remain a net accumulator of gold over the coming years as it seeks to shore up reserves...and that the gold bull in China is only in its infancy. Still an unbelievably massive amount of people and funds to go before ever reaching a mania stage.
The stage is being set though, with increasing commercial avenues being opened for people to buy.
It's important to remember though, all these avenues being opened for gold in China were slated in 2000 by the government, and these developments would still be done whether or not gold was in a secular bull. It just so happens the timing is ripe, and the amount of available funds in China that could potentially (and easily) go into gold is massive.
TGR: ChiComm media was running stories on people loadin up on AU and AG. Their citizens also know that the gov has added 100's of tons to the official reserves. So maybe not a direct command but a clear suggestion to.
Yes, though the media is not at all as pervasive in China as many may think.
Put it this way, GFMS stats claim net retail investment demand for gold in 2009 was about 71 tonnes in east Asia (which includes China, though WGC stats say 81 tonnes net retail investment demand for China), while Europe had retail investment demand of 293 tonnes, and North America some 121 tonnes.
While this does exclude jewellery, which has solid demand in China, it does indicate there is significant room for growth in demand in China, not just on a per capita basis, but the fact the amount of wealth in China is actually quite staggering.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not being argumentative and am bullish on gold, just one would have to question the efficacy of the Chinese government, and the enthusiasm of its citizens to buy gold, were a mere 71 (or 81) tonnes the results of this oft-mentioned directive from the Chinese government; rumours of which began circulating last year.
The reality is, in fact, far more bullish.
Chinese history has long made gold an important asset for the wealthy. I remember this from reading Pearl Buck, of course, who loved China. Every time the peasants revolted or a warlord invaded, Mr. Lum and his family grabbed their gold and antiques and ran to the ancestral village leaving their nice houses and businesses to be pillaged. The Chinese know the Yankee dolla is about to crash. This time they have a middle class who can afford gold.
"when the inevitable crash comes"
Damn, didn't think I'd hear you say that...
I never said gold was immune to corrections, and besides, a reccomendation from goldman is a hell of a contrarian indicator.
For the record, I don't think it will ever see a price level below 1000 again, though it might go below 1100 with this news. It is unlikely to last at that level, and we are likely to see severe supply shortages if it approaches $1000. The spot price might go beneath that, but there won't be any bullion available at that price, and would be indicative of a broken market, at which point the spot price would likely go to zero as paper promises are seen as worthless.
"...a reccomendation from goldman is a hell of a contrarian indicator."
Indeed, eg. look what happened to Platinum not long after they went publicly bullish on it in April. It dropped around 300 bux in the blink of an eye....
They can't be wrong all the time?
Regards
"besides, a reccomendation from goldman is a hell of a contrarian indicator."
The "Death Cross" is formed when Cramer is in alignment with Goldman.
Yeah, I saw Cramer pushing gold last night. Scary. On the other hand, the boy had some good tips right after the 08 crash, pointing out those with low debt and good dividends. That broken clock again.
And just why not. When you run a FALSE, LYING, DOESN'T WORK fractional reserve currency system. IT CRASHES. It's called a something something horn. M3 horns out against M1 and M0 and it creates an impossible scenario. This isn't speculation or fear mongering. IT's THE WAY THIS BULLSHIT WORKS. If it doesn't crash than it's simply because the underlying lies have distorted it's perception back into believability range.
The only stupid thing is why people don't understand the ENTIRE process and jump ship and never play the stupid game again.
"when the inevitable crash (of the USD) comes"
Your charts gone black or some'at JB?
Remember what I told ya before: 84 and some more for three to four or the DXY is out the door.
Regards
BEWARE is right! This, to me, may signal the final chapter folks. It appears to me Goldman sees no way out. They must finally have convinced themselves that the deflationary forces will prevail here. I have a feeling things are about to get real ugly. Cash is king. I do need things to stay calm for at least 30 more days so I can refinance a construction loan (remodel) into a zero interest rate loan. YEA BABY!
let's think this thru...i bet -- from the macro view == they know that gold is eventually going to go well over 2K, if not exponentially higher. but....there's the "JPM situation" and the galactic-sized shorts that could literally take down the wall street complex.
i bet... i will bet GS is giving the reco to give air cover to JPM and the other boyz to take down gold and silver to the point that they get these positions covered. With GS reco'ing...it will look like some guys on Wall STreet lost big (yeah, right) and deflect the utter fury at watching JPM play the Comex like its personal fiddle......
the take down here should be utterly savage when it gets going. tight stops every one....the buying op that's going to be left will be memorable.
That's seriously fucking scary. Not only because I went long #79, but also because these stupid pricks are playing with fire.
Dread Pirate Blankfein: All right. Where is the gold? The battle of wits has begun. It ends when you decide and we both borrow on margin, and find out who is right... and who is broke.
Unwashedmass : But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you: are you the sort of man who would put the gold into his own account or his enemy's? Now, a clever man would put the gold into his own account, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the account in your name. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the account in my name.
Dread Pirate Blankfein: You've made your decision then?
Unwashedmass : Not remotely. Because gold comes from Canada, as everyone knows, and Canada is entirely peopled with dope smokers, and dope smokers are used to having people not trust them, as you are not trusted by me, so I can clearly not choose the account in your name.
Dread Pirate Blankfein: Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.
Unwashedmass : Wait til I get going! Now, where was I?
Dread Pirate Blankfein: Canada.
Unwashedmass : Yes, Canada. And you must have suspected I would have known the yellow metal's origin, so I can clearly not choose the account in my name.
Dread Pirate Blankfein: You're just stalling now.
Unwashedmass : You'd like to think that, wouldn't you? You've beaten my coin trader, which means you're exceptionally liquid, so you could've sold calls on the gold in your own account, trusting on your liquidity to save you, so I can clearly not choose the account in your name. But, you've also bested my elected official, which means you must have studied deniability, and in studying you must have learned that man is vengeful, so you would have put the gold as far from yourself as possible, so I can clearly not choose the account in my name.
Dread Pirate Blankfein: You're trying to trick me into giving away something. It won't work.
Unwashedmass : IT HAS WORKED! YOU'VE GIVEN EVERYTHING AWAY! I KNOW WHERE THE GOLD IS!
Dread Pirate Blankfein: Then make your choice.
Unwashedmass : I will, and I choose - What in the world can that be?
Unwashedmass : [Unwashedmass gestures up and away from the table. Blankfein looks. Unwashedmass swaps the accounts]
Dread Pirate Blankfein: What? Where? I don't see anything.
Unwashedmass : Well, I- I could have sworn I saw something. No matter.First, let's borrow on margin. Me from my account, and you from yours.
Dread Pirate Blankfein, Unwashedmass : [Unwashedmass and the Dread Pirate Blankfein borrow on margin]
Dread Pirate Blankfein: You guessed wrong.
Unwashedmass : You only think I guessed wrong! That's what's so funny! I switched accounts when your back was turned! Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never invest in solar companies in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go against a web surfer when actual money is on the line"! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha...
Unwashedmass : [Unwashedmass stops suddenly,his smile frozen on his face and chokes as he receives his margin call]
Buttercup: And to think, all that time it was your account that was short gold.
Dread Pirate Blankfein: They were both short gold. I spent the last few years building up an immunity to margin calls by gaining direct access to the discount window.
Ha! Beat you to the punchline though I enjoyed your adaptation... See my post above. Great minds think alike.
They should really have a anti-junk link, something like "flag as brilliant".
Had me rolling, great movie and solid parody. I salute you!
Yes definitely in the brilliant category. Still laughing.
+++ Longest comment that I ever enjoyed reading!
for amusement and creative adaptation, +6.022*10^23
A mole of humour?
HH: nice.
Nice work Hedgeless, a gift of love and inspiration to the community.Captured the situation beautifully. A bit of Moody Blues as a response:
Breathe deep the gathering gloom
Watchlights fade from every room
Bedsitter people look back and lament
Another days useless energies spent
Empassioned lovers wrestle as one
Lonely man cries for love and has none
New mother picks up and settles her son
Senior citizens wish they were young
Cold hearted orb that rules the night
Removes the colors from our sight
Red is gray and yellow white
But we decide which is right
And which is an illusion
Dread Pirate Blankfein: All right. Where is the gold? The battle of wits has begun. It en
The scene is from an excellent movie, "The Princess Bride".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA-AEuXn1eg
Thank you. Simply brilliant. I kowtow in your general direction.
Yay! I'm getting a bit of cash soon and was looking to buy. Hope this is GS signaling a slaughter of their customers. Come on JPM and GS lets get this bad boy under 1,000!
Run, run for your lives
Gold looking strong right now.
Oh Nooooooooooooooooes!!!
doublepluscrimethink doubleplentyungood!
Malreported rectify doublequick.
Regards
Might this be connected?
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/there-liquidity-problem-goldman-prime
or this:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1123245120100811
?
"Might this be connected?"
Hey! I was thinking exactly the same thing - they need their money to buy gold!
Kinda OT, but have you ever noticed that the WSJ would have written it as "mightn't?" It gets pretty annoying after awhile.
Goldman is right. Gold has a very high inverse correlation to "real" Interest rates historically. Currently, I think real interest rates are negative.
The commercials have switched from "Sell us your gold!" to "Now's the time to buy gold!" and now GS comes out with this?
Interesting times, indeed.
Where have the commercials changed? I still get 2-3 "we'll buy your scrap gold" every hour.
Every time the squid opens it's mouth it lies.
This is comedy gold.
Except this time.
They will be selling into the ralley later though.
See my other GS prediction that came true.
#338683
gold bitchez
A decline over the next few weeks would be consistent with existing periodic cycles within gold's general ascent. GS just sealed it for me.
I would be very surprised if gold goes directly up from here. Very.
However it will be exciting if I'm wrong because it suggests something just broke.
This is the tough season for gold historically, so it might fit their story. I've actually been expecting a fairly sharp correction, which hasn't yet unfolded. It's hard to leave such large profits on the table by holding, but I refuse to be hussled by those GS scumbags. Trade with your paper gold. The physical you hold onto -especially now that every $600 or more purchase/sale has to be reported...just sayin' Also, it's not like the reasons to won it have changed have they? Just the daily commentary has.
Maybe their Central Bank subsidieary can lend them a hand, they're flush with cash.
"especially now that every $600 or more purchase/sale has to be reported"
Wha? I hadn't heard about this? Where the hell did that come from?
It's in the new "healthcare" law. In order to increase tax revenues by catching scofflaws, all businesses making purchases from another individual or entity in an amount over $600 per year will have to file a 1099 starting in 2012.
"That's not going to be good for business. That's not going to be good for anybody." -- Seinfeld
Oh yeah, that.
That fucking blows.
Just what small businesses need - more red tape.
It was hidden in the Financial Reform, er, no that's where you'd expect to find it. It was actually buried in the Health Care bill -you know the one that was going to give us all health insurance (practically for free), and save the country a zillion or so dollars -yep, that one. Actually, now that I think about it, it might not start until 2011 or 2012. Google it and you'll get a bunch of hits to read it for yourself. (hint: pour a stiff drink prior to reading)
Hidden like the WMD`s in iraqnam ???????
No, the 1099s are real. They blow along the road that leads to the end of American dream -- and east, west, south and north somewhat.
I don't see why this is a big deal. The 1099 only needs to be reported by small businesses / self-employers regarding purchases and sales as it relates to their business.
This has no effect on us...aka investors...in our personal affairs.
I get that it's a big deal because of the meddling or whatever, but the government is simply trying to conduct its taxation in an arena where transactional volume is growing... I don't blame em! Doesn't mean I have to like it, though.
I don't see why this is a big deal. The 1099 only needs to be reported by small businesses / self-employers regarding purchases and sales as it relates to their business.
It's a concern for small business owners, some of whom will have to issue hundreds or thousands of 1099 annually. Just one more thing to drag down the little guy and his family and his employees and their families and his vendors and their employees and their families...
Do it by paper, not electronically. Flood the f'ers.
What the hell are you talking about?
"I don't see why this is a big deal."
I do. Remember, that 1099M has your SSN on it. They send you one copy, and the IRS the other. Are you going to report that as income, or are you going to suffer an audit?
Well yeah. They're 'simply' trying to expand power, like always. It's government's nature to want to grow in size and control over the people. The flaw in your logic is in saying "I don't blame them". If we make the mistake of empathizing with government, that is the road to subjugation. Government expansion has to be resisted at all turns, or else you end up with...what we have today.
So I do blame them. They didn't have to add this onerous tax law. They just wanted to.
If we make the mistake of empathizing with government, that is the road to subjugation.
It's what Ayn Rand calls "the sanction of the victim."
And the stimulus bill had the death panels laid out. Historic and unprecedented sleaze.
now that every $600 or more purchase/sale has to be reported.
Not until 2012, I believe. It also seems to me that sellers are issued 1099 by buyers and not the other way around.
Or they're short. The reason might be they suspect the Fed and global CBs are petrified that there will be another rush to gold, as nearly happened this morning. Physical is widely held and growing. A rush to gold diminishes their credibility further, like a vote of no confidence. THey also fear it may signal an impending inflation spike.
goldimen doing gods work by allowing people to accumulate more
give me 945 hurra!!!!!!!!!!!!
So having destroyed most of the financial world they now suggest that the real wealth is in Gold.Should be strung up for even having the cheek to suggest that Gold has potential because the banks and central banks have destroyed everything else.So what is the next ponzi scheme for the masses,probably an upping of the paper game as in this piece of paper guarantee,s that you own Blah,blah,blah, ounces which we will charge blah,blah,blah, for storage and administration costs,no-one will ever ask for physical because we will just buy the certificate for fiat paper.Just buy physical and take it out of the market so Governments,Central Banks and Investment Banks loose the power of control and manipulation,take control and empower yourself,buy physical and ensure that all of the above start working for a living.
Don't forget to grab $500 from the ATM's on Thursday -- as a message to our banking friends about who really owns the money. I've done my bit already, in OZ.
Gold (paper) price may go down. I don't really care, the gold I have is for sitting on, not speculating. If anything, I have more $ I will convert to metal if the price goes down enough. I don't think we will see a three digit price again, but I could be wrong. Gold is the key to this whole GFC situation, keep your mind open and learn about it if you have not already.
Don't forget to grab $500 from the ATM's on Thursday
Can't we Luddites just go to the counter?
Crockett and saulysw
Yes we can!
+ $500 !
Yo, TBTFs, etc.:
"We deflate you bitchez!"
I have seen this idea of withdrawing money from an ATM as a protest floated around, it is completely useless as a protest.
I think you should rather withdraw any kind of collateral out of the fiat currency system. If you withdraw 500, they can print another 5000. What difference does it make, not much.
However, if you pay off all mortgage on the house and hoard any physical assets that can be pledged as collateral (of course, this includes PM) this puts a much harder squeeze on the fractional reserve system.
The federal reserve and other central banks still backs a fraction of their fiat by gold, and they then back bank lending and credit through fractional reserve banking. So!! The weakest spot in the chain is the backing of the currency. If you hoard cold, you strike the multiplier chain at the TOP. This has a cascading effect.
No gold, no debt. It is very simple.
i find it very hard to believe gold has peaked. i do find it interesting htat the EUR/USD spread went through the roof right after GS lowered its target to 1.18...
It's crazy how I've been saying we'd see a correction, and now some people actually agree with me.
900s are in the cards eventually. It's the normal market action.
1220 is the top of this run.
It takes patterns a while to play out, but we're making the lower low in gold's price before the correction now.
JB,
I hope your correct...........want MORE.
USD I said two weeks ago was going up, was way oversold..........
Their after suckers.....fk em'...........HOLD & BUY,cash is ultimately going to be shit FOR real, and by the time the Sheeple figure it out, they will be fleeced x's 1000...........
I just feel for the folks who saved, invested, and planned for their retirements who think Gold & Silver are too risky...their going to lose IT all.
I'm with DosZap.
Bring it down, I'll just buy more and a little faster.
That is the way it works. I've watched it through several generations. My grandparents were small business owners and considered well-to-do. They saved what was a lot of money for that time, and they had it out at interest when they retired, expecting to live on that interest and leave the principal as a tidy inheritance for their 2 children. They both lived to 95 and what they had saved looked puny by the time they passed. Most of the prinicipal was gone, and when the funeral expenses for my grandmother were paid, my mother and aunt divided a measly couple of thousand between them and were lucky to get that. We're are just grateful that there was enough there to keep my poor grandmother in the nursing home. We thank God that she was too demented to worry about it except to complain about the cheap hotel my grandfather had left her in while he went hunting.
My father passed 8 years ago, and the nest egg he and my mother had scrimped and saved for (they were not considered well-to-do), the nest egg that looked so solid and substantial, that represented actual sacrifices made, no longer looks like it is going to keep my mother in comfort for the rest of her life. In fact, it is starting to look pretty puny.
I don't agree with you, you are just a broken clock. You have been calling for ultra-low gold prices forever based on half-witted technical analyses.
Goldman has been so consistantly wrong that their reccomendation of gold merely makes me think they are gonig to do something to drop it, or they know that someone else is going to. They might also be planning to throw out a bone every now and then to keep up the pretense that they arehonestly working for their clients.
As for gold, the shortterm trend is sideways, the medium and long term trends are up. The fundamentals point straight up. The endgame is a new gold standard, which will look EXACTLY like a bubble, but once it reaches the top, it won't burst, because everyone continues to want an unlimited amount of it, it is no-ones liability, and it is not subject to debasement.
If I didn't have any gold or silver right now, I wouldn't wait for the Goldman dip. But I do, so I can afford to hold off on further purchases for a week or two.
As for gold, the shortterm trend is sideways
Really; since May, gold has been $1210 +/- 4%. I've never seen so much noise about noise since grunge came out.
+/- 4% is a hell of a tight trading range, given the volatility in currencies and other markets. And besides, we are at about the same level now as we were back then, so, the trend is obviously sideways (unless you want to pretend there is any validity in a single week's price action).
If you noticed the pattern, it has been pretty clear. The plunges tend to occur over the week and a half leading up to options expiration. This is the repeating monthly crash that seems inevitable.
I don't understand your comment. I was agreeing with the OP - gold's been going sideways for months. You seem to think I was disagreeing with him.
Trend. What chart are you looking at. The trend has been bouncing back and forth. When it starts fib retracements down then you can say trend.
I'm a scientist. The "bouncing back and forth" is called noise, and it is not statistically significant. You traders can try to fit all the shapes you want, but you're just playing in the noise. I'm invested for the long term, and for the medium and long term, the only investment worth having (other than survivalist supplies that is) is gold or silver.
I do not think the real FISH are going to bite this time.
We KNOW where it's going to wind up..........the real smart cookies, and big Individual holders, are not going to dump it..........
These Fkrs, along w/JPM, have gone to this well once too many times.
They are trusted as much as the Fed, and the Gv't.
Smart money HOLDS this time.............if not, they are going to be BIG time losers.
Well it's good to know that Goldman is aware the Interest Rates and the Price of Gold are inversely proportional.
Larry Summers will have to remind them tomorrow morning that Real Interest Rates and the Gold Price need to be strapped together with bungie cords and duck tape or else the whole system will collapse.
If gold goes down, buy more physical. If gold goes up enjoy the contented feeling, but dont speculate with your physical trying to catch short term moves. Try to keep X percent in physical gold and concentrate on making your wealth elsewhere. Gold is insurance.
something strange is going on in gold
paladin
Many of you are too contrarian. What has changed fundamentally to break that left-to-right incline starting in 2001? Long, strong.
The ultimate dilemma for Zerohedge true believers. Bet against Goldman Sachs telling the truth or bet against gold. Two fundamental tennets in opposition. Cast your votes now.