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Is The Goldman Pile-On Getting a Little Tired?

Marla Singer's picture





 

The Zero Hedge tips line has received perhaps a dozen emails pointing to today's Alice Schroeder piece in Bloomberg "Arming Goldman With Pistols Against Public."  Apparently, we are expected to take the fact that some unspecified number of Goldman employees have applied for handgun permits as some sort of harbinger of an impending coup d'état by Goldman employees, or perhaps merely some sign of their close personal and financial connections to the antichrist.

Ms. Schroeder, most recently in the public eye for her work as Warren Buffett's "hand-picked" court historian, also seems to make much of the security precautions Goldman chief Lloyd Blankfein took "two months before Bear Stearns Cos. collapsed."  We are expected, it seems, to draw a sinister connection between these events to support her assertion that "Blankfein somehow anticipated the persecution complex his fellow bankers would soon suffer." I sort of suspect that there is a less interesting explanation that does not actually require the presupposition of clairvoyance.  We suppose also that by "persecution complex" we are expected to believe Mr. Blankfein, and by extension the average Goldman employee, are the victims of some sort of paranoid disorder.  It's only paranoid, we might point out, if the country isn't out to get you.  In this case, it doesn't take the President himself warning you about pitchforks to make it pretty clear the country is actually out to get Goldman (whether they have earned that ire or not) but it sure helps.

That Ms. Schroeder has absolutely no idea how handguns are actually used (or, apparently, what they are for) is quickly apparent:

Common sense tells you a handgun is probably not even all that useful. Suppose an intruder sneaks past the doorman or jumps the security fence at night. By the time you pull the pistol out of your wife’s jewelry safe, find the ammunition, and load your weapon, Fifi the Pomeranian has already been taken hostage and the gun won’t do you any good.

If New York legally required storage in such a manner, Ms. Schroeder might be right- if such an imaginary statute was uniformly followed.  Of course, gun owners with even a lick of actual common sense (contrary to Ms. Schroeder's version thereof) do not deploy their home-defense or work-defense handguns in this fashion for exactly this reason.  This precise issue was center stage in successful Supreme Court arguments to invalidate gun control laws in Washington, D.C. recently.  (District of Columbia v. Heller 554 U.S. _ (2008)).

We might add that the million plus Americans who use a handgun to stop crimes every year might have a different view with respect to their immediate utility.

Then there is this:

Concealed gun permits are almost impossible for ordinary citizens to obtain in New York or nearby states.

Obviously Vermont, New Hampshire, Rhode Island and Pennsylvania (all of which either have "shall issue" concealed carry permit laws or permit carrying outright without restriction) don't meet Ms. Schroeder's definition of "nearby states."  Further, Delaware permits "open carry" without a permit and the procedure to get a permit, which includes "open carry" is actually quite reasonable in Connecticut.  This is a pretty big "gun law fail" on the part of Ms. Schroeder.

This is our favorite part:

Talk that Goldman bankers might have armed themselves in self-defense would sound ludicrous, were it not so apt a metaphor for the way that the most successful people on Wall Street have become a target for public rage.

Really?  We actually think Ms. Schroeder's piece is the apt metaphor.  Either one must believe that every single Goldman Sachs employee is an individual personification of manifest evil and should be the subject of unrestricted suburban warfare wherever he or she beds down- and further that acquiring the means to protect themselves should carry the death penalty, or you might just find yourself not blaming the Goldies for arming themselves.  On this point I have to say, just personally, as a long time, avid and law abiding handgun owner, and carrier, I'm with Goldman on this one.  Moreover, I'm ready to make that call that, yes, when we heap abuse and threats on them and then finally chastise them for preparing to defend themselves in response to a public threat so pervasive and obvious that we would gloat at them after the fact for not "seeing it coming" should something actually happen, it seems pretty obvious that the Goldman bashing has, finally, gone just a wee bit too far.

 


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Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:03 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:03 | Link to Comment D.O.D.
D.O.D.'s picture

"Goldman bashing has, finally, gone just a wee bit too far."

Not even close....

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:35 | Link to Comment WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

180 GRAIN HOLLOWPOINTS BITCHES!!

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:37 | Link to Comment Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

since when has exposing the truth become "bashing" ?

as for their right to arm, yes, they have that right, however so do alot of citizens in manhattan. unfortunately it is impossible to get a full carry permit in manhattan unless mayor bloomberg signs the permit. so why do goldsachs employees get pistol permits while everyone else must remain unarmed?

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:55 | Link to Comment Marla Singer
Marla Singer's picture

Sorry, where do you get that they are getting CCWs when no one else is?

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 19:04 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

How can you report on what they and other too big to fails are up to and then say the bashing has gone a wee bit too far? There is not enough shame to heap on them. They can quit, turn them in for violations they are aware of, all kinds of things.

They made their choices. They brought this on themselves.

I say COPE WITH IT.

And if this were my son, I'd say the same thing-->Get out of there.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 19:42 | Link to Comment geopol
geopol's picture

I'm proud of you....

 

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 20:24 | Link to Comment Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

@Marla  Out of a population of 8,300,000 people, NYC currently issues 2,200 CCW permits a year. If you already have one then consider yourself lucky. Unless you have "connections" you're not getting a CCW in NYC (which doesn't honor NY State CCW permits). It's been common knowledge but here's one article on the subject:

http://www.nysun.com/new-york/concealed-pistols-permits-drop-in-city/61496/

A spokesman for the National Rifle Association, Andrew Arulanandam, said the drop in permits is a reflection of the city's penchant for giving only wealthy New Yorkers gun permits.

 

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 20:49 | Link to Comment Marla Singer
Marla Singer's picture

The permits discussed in the article are business/home permits, I'm fairly certain. But if you have other information, please forward it.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 21:02 | Link to Comment Sqworl
Sqworl's picture

Oh just great cyber government bank robbers with guns...belt and suspenders...lol

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 21:50 | Link to Comment gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

+100

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:06 | Link to Comment WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Plus, with your life on the line I'd carry anyway. Unless they have probable cause to search you, law enforcement, or anyone, would never know. And if you did get caught it's a misdemeanor - not a felony:

Section 265.01 Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree

 

(1) He possesses any firearm, electronic dart gun, electronic stun gun, gravity knife, switchblade knife, pilum ballistic knife, metal knuckle knife, cane sword, billy, blackjack, bludgeon, metal knuckles, chuka stick, sand bag, sandclub, wrist-brace type slingshot or slungshot, shirken or "Kung Fu star"...

 

Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree is a class A misdemeanor.

 

http://wings.buffalo.edu/law/bclc/web/NewYork/ny3%28b%29.htm

 

Get a good enough lawyer, and a jury of fully-informed peers, and you'll walk if you need it for self-defense.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 20:42 | Link to Comment deadhead
deadhead's picture

in NY a misdemeanor can be reduced to an Adjournment in Contemplation of Dismissal if you are a citizen with a clean record.  A person can probably work it out on their own with an assistant DA

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 23:47 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

as long as the prohibition is not based on a conviction, the offfense is a misdemeanor in many jurisidictions. And a number of jurisdictions let you obtain a "dismissal" or equivalent if you have one offense and keep your subsequent record clean 

Thu, 12/10/2009 - 10:39 | Link to Comment Lou629
Lou629's picture

Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree is a class A misdemeanor.

 

http://wings.buffalo.edu/law/bclc/web/NewYork/ny3%28b%29.htm

 

"Get a good enough lawyer, and a jury of fully-informed peers, and you'll walk if you need it for self-defense."

Somebody ought to tell ^that^ to Plaxico Burress and his lawyers, lol.  Sorry for the late reply, i must've somehow missed this the first time around.

Thu, 12/10/2009 - 15:06 | Link to Comment WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

It got sticky when he negligently discharged - could have been worse: he just shot himself, and then tried to hide it. No such thing as an accident - you either need more training or need to be less careless.

Wed, 12/02/2009 - 03:58 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:05 | Link to Comment Project Mayhem
Project Mayhem's picture

"sign of their close personal and financial connections to the antichrist."

---^ hahahahah

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:18 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:40 | Link to Comment Divided States ...
Divided States of America's picture

Trust me, the current adminstration will eventually bend the rules so that only bankers can carry firearms. I guess GS may outright purchase Smith&Wesson and hand them out to all the employees at work. We, the normal middle class, will have to do with pitchforks and maybe sledge hammers.

Kinda like how the bailouts are only for the wealthy and connected whereas the simpletons get left behind. Things dont just never change, they turn for the worse.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:13 | Link to Comment TheGoodDoctor
TheGoodDoctor's picture

+ the deficit including undfunded liabilities.

...and let the GS bashing continue, let them live in fear

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:07 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:08 | Link to Comment Daedal
Daedal's picture

Marla, is that a gun in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:12 | Link to Comment Project Mayhem
Project Mayhem's picture

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:35 | Link to Comment You Cant Handle...
You Cant Handle the Truth's picture

Goldman = Cthulhu.

Love it. Hence my icon.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 19:43 | Link to Comment Shameful
Shameful's picture

I would like to believe that mighty Cthulhu has better things to do then be a banker.  Though gazing upon Cthulhu is much like looking at a bank balance sheet.  Both will drive you mad and and send you screaming into the night...hmmm...maybe he is a banker... First Bank of R'lyeh?

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 19:56 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 20:35 | Link to Comment The Rock
The Rock's picture

You mean Warren Buffett?

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:15 | Link to Comment LittleSambo
LittleSambo's picture

Handguns?  At least when the New York Times wanted to secure themselves in 1863 they knew enough to reach for a few Gatling guns.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:32 | Link to Comment JohnKing
JohnKing's picture

Sorry Marla, the squid is simply too nefarious to sympathize with at this point. The sociopath is an amazing creature, it can transfom itself into the "victim" when put on the spot. I'm surprised you fell for the BB piece. Obviously it has achieved it's intended goal (with some).

Awww, poor Goldmanites, why's everybody always pickin on me? If I destroyed the balance sheets of as many people as GS has, forget the handgun baby, I'd have more "entourage" than a West coast rapper.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:42 | Link to Comment Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

Marla has Stockholm Syndrome. Stop loving your abuser !!!

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:45 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:18 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Good article. The fact that they actually applied and respected the law was good. These people can get ahold of mini-guns and armored SUV's with mini-guns mounted in them exactly lke what is used to protect the president. Everyone has the right to protect themselves from tyranny. Righteous unrighteous doesn't matter. Humility and the willingness to discuss the true problems of our system in a reasonable way is still their best protection.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:30 | Link to Comment ghostfaceinvestah
ghostfaceinvestah's picture

"The fact that they actually applied and respected the law was good."

And we would know about the ones who didn't follow the law how?

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:32 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

They'd get their FBI to tell ya.

Oh wait. Crap!!!

 

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:32 | Link to Comment Project Mayhem
Project Mayhem's picture

I agree , all have the right to protect themselves from tyranny whether righteous or unrighteous.  Good point.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:50 | Link to Comment WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Yes. Let 12 of their fully-informed peers decide.

I think the Bloomberg article was some kind of, I dunno, sideshow. I really doubt these bankers are all getting Glocks and taking firearms courses. Like I said in a previous post this article looked like it should have been in People magazine.

If things get ugly they'll get Xe to do some dirty work. GS is in symbiosis with the apparatchiks - ya think they haven't planned for every contingency! But I doubt there will ever be any real populist anger - there are too many good showz on TV:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nug5FZgxuk

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:55 | Link to Comment Budd Fox
Budd Fox's picture

They are not getting Glocks, Glocks are cheap...they get customised Sig Sauers or the New FNs with the new Kevlar piercing ammos...they can spend.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 20:41 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 12/02/2009 - 01:10 | Link to Comment desk-jockey
desk-jockey's picture

mmmmm, SIGs - yes, please!

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 19:06 | Link to Comment JuicyTheAnimal
JuicyTheAnimal's picture

Uh..too many good showz?  I dunno, I can't even afford cable.  So let's see there's football and.....fuck it, it's Tuesday, is banker season open yet????

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:29 | Link to Comment jm
jm's picture

I sometimes feel for the guys that are just doing their jobs there.  But then I think of the bonuses they get out of my wallet instead of repaying the government slop-trough.  Those bonuses seem to blind them to what is wrong with the whole system, and they make them live in denial when honest introspection is required.  Like Blankfein saying "we're doing God's work here". 

You, sir, are a fucking bastard. 

And they tend to be so dismissive of everyone and everything critical of the hypocrisy that is GS that they can't even see that their head is in their ass.  This may have changed.  I've been out of TBTFs for several years now. 

This is an opportunity for GS guys to weigh in.  I'll apologize if you give me reason.

 

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:30 | Link to Comment Project Mayhem
Project Mayhem's picture

by 'God'  Blankfein means Lucifer

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:39 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Aren't they one and the same? Two sides of the same coin.

"Good and ill to the physician surely must be one, since he derives his fee from torturing the sick." Heraclitus

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:47 | Link to Comment Project Mayhem
Project Mayhem's picture

No, they are definitely not the same .  But I see what you are getting at.  Gotta be careful not to sink into moral relativism !

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:44 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Moral relativism is how it works but it's not the root. It's all about legitimzation versus illigetimization. Prohibition is an excellent place to start with that. It took a previously legitimate form of behavior and made it made it unlawful or unlegitimate. If we encompass all behavior as legitimate then the worst behavior becomes the universal. It's the paradoxical, or hipocritical behavior of favoring and supporting the legitimate while not doing it that is the underlying theme of authority. The use of rejection to achieve a better "offering" of behavior while not living up to those behaviors. The pardoxical speaches present in religous text.

"You'll never control me." Well then, you won't live within the law.

"Those who love the law are with me and of me, those who hate it are against me".

But you are uncontrollable and therefore not lawful.

But I understand what you are getting at too. Eventually you have to fix within something.

Confiscate gold again. I'll freaking kill you. Shoot you in the crotch. Hammer you into the ground with a sledgehammer. But feel free to make such an action unlawful or morally wrong or unpopular. Still won't keep it from happening.

Make me live in a fractional reserve economic system. I'll give you guarantees of never treating my government or economic system with any respect or honesty or legitimacy. No matter how popular you can make it.

Basically it's the standoff from "The Thing". I do feel sorry for Goldman getting crushed by all the fear of retribution they are under. But if they twitch wrong. The trigger gets pulled and the thing gets roasted. Everything evolves. Quickly crushed rebellions turn into hard fought victories and become crushing defeats. Give me a good way to say no. Or accept the expression of it as it evolves. Thier choice.

 

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:29 | Link to Comment Project Mayhem
Project Mayhem's picture

I am absolutetly pro-2nd amendment as well  , but I have no sympathy for vampire squid or their criminal leadership

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:33 | Link to Comment ghostfaceinvestah
ghostfaceinvestah's picture

Agreed.  They would have failed in September 08 if not for their connections.

To me, a business that survives because of connections has no place in a free market.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:07 | Link to Comment Daedal
Daedal's picture

I am absolutetly pro-2nd amendment as well  , but I have no sympathy for vampire squid or their criminal leadership

While I agree with you 100%, you have to realize that most GS workers are not responsible for what happens at GS. Most GS workers are cogs. They go to work, get their fat pay check, and go home to spend their money on expensive clothes and liquour, and update their football fantasy teams. Most of them don't care about fiat currency, politics, or (dare I say) ZH postings. Most GS employees are cogs -- many of them IVY-league-graduates, well connected, and financially better off than most of us, but they are cogs that, quite simply, were able to get those positions. The rest of us work at Morgan Stanley and own sling shots.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 19:25 | Link to Comment Cursive
Cursive's picture

If faced with the prospect of working in a criminal enterprise, I would quite.  In fact, I did this year.  Too bad more people prefer money to ethics.  And people wonder how Auchwitz or the Gulag happened.  Is it more obvious now?

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 22:08 | Link to Comment gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

+1

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 01:52 | Link to Comment Daedal
Daedal's picture

If faced with the prospect of working in a criminal enterprise, I would quit.

Way to take the moral high ground. In that case, you should cease any work whatsoever, since taxes garnered from your wages (regardless of your place of employment) are used to fund criminal enterprises like GS & wars.

I don't mean to be scathing, but I'm trying to impact a point. While I understand your view, the root cause of the problem is not GS, but the manner in which our government functions.

GS is simply leveraging the tools it has at its disposal. The rule of law whereby an enterprise or a person cannot violate the rights of others should be upheld in all cases, and those guilty should be prosecuted. You should be pointing your finger toward our government's refusal (and diliberate manipulation) to enforce contracts, property rights, and even outright manipulation through bailouts as well as the sanctioned adoption of arbitrary accounting standards (that's right, AAS).

Look at Enron, Bernie Madoff, and our banking system. The difference is the latter is allowed to obfuscate their numbers because they are not only pardoned, but are outright encouraged and rewarded by government to do so.

 

 

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:31 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:32 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:55 | Link to Comment Marla Singer
Marla Singer's picture

HK p7m8... yum.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:10 | Link to Comment WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Nice. Parabellum. Aussi moi.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:11 | Link to Comment deadhead
deadhead's picture

Trust this.

Marla.knows.guns.

 

i still don't own a gun though i did lots of shooting, hunting as a kid.  I actually went to a store and started checking them out again and I may buy one, which i personally find disturbing as i really want to believe in the rule of law but facts are facts and I can't ignore them.

I also admit that i used to think the people who stocked up on food were nutcases.  I do NOT think that anymore by any stretch and I now have a 2 month supply to which i continually add.

I find it quite sad

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:50 | Link to Comment WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

The rule of law is great and all, but policemans are too heavy to carry around. It's hard to convince somebody that doesn't like you, because they feel shat upon by society, that they need to wait to perform their evil deed while law enforcement has time to arrive.

"Hey, Mr. Crackhead, let me make a quick phone call before you start yo thang. Oh, and promise me that you won't go to far, you know, get a little crazy. It's my birthday today. By the way, do know what the address here is?"

Better to be judged by 12 fully-informed peers than buried by six loved ones.

So, DH, let me try to persuade you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W91EWQv4Fc

 

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:49 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 20:46 | Link to Comment deadhead
deadhead's picture

thanks george....i have viewed their site and will revisit it again.

 

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:33 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:34 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:13 | Link to Comment laughing_swordfish
laughing_swordfish's picture

In charge of Security for the Squid.

GS's connections to the Italian, Israeli and Russian mob is even closer than its ties to the government.

And according to the Kenpetai (Japanese National Police) they are very close to concluding a deal with the National Commission of the Yakuza, who will also give them an introduction to the HK and Macau Hang Seng Tong (the same guys who plated up all that tungsten).

Solution? Armed invasion of 85 Broad. Mass Detention of all those captured. Civil and criminal RICO prosecution, followed by incarceration at the new Financial Crimes Detention Center in Guantanamo Bay.

Today's pleasant thought from the swordfish.

 

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:48 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 19:32 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:34 | Link to Comment maff
maff's picture

Elites don't fight the wars - they have others fight on their behalf.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:35 | Link to Comment cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

The article was silly. But that said, I don't know about the "bashing" bashing. We're doing GS a favor, bashing them. We just want them to fly straight and provide real value to the real economy, and if they do that then they'll be fine. If not, then they are bound to disappear and there won't be anything they or I or anyone can do about it, because they would have become too damaging to exist. It's a self-limiting problem, you see.

As another data point on handgun carry:

California has well established "unloaded open carry" language in the penal code as do other states, though you'll have to deal with cops who don't buy into the idea on general priniciple. Some dudes in Cupertino hang out at a Starbucks packing heat under UOC. Damn straight, says I. Need a lot more of that 'round abouts; the gangs in and around San Jose are taking the place over, dosing a house from the front yard with shotguns and shooting a child in the head and stabing another. And that just since Halloween. We won't be having with anymore of that, sir.

cougar

 

 

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 22:58 | Link to Comment gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

+1

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:36 | Link to Comment chet
chet's picture

"Sympathy for the Squid"

In reality, those workplaces are probably defended by Blackwater mercenaries by now.  I don't think that a few pencil-necks with handguns are going to add all that much.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:40 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:40 | Link to Comment Project Mayhem
Project Mayhem's picture

I would like to take this opportunity to recommend the Kel-tec PF9 for all your personal deep-carry requirements...  it takes a little love, but hey , sanding down the burrs on the slide while drinking a Sam Adams is actually kinda fun...

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:47 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:36 | Link to Comment FoolMeTwice
FoolMeTwice's picture

And then what? Your gold and ammo against someone else's ammo.

And round and round we go (no pun intended)!

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 22:47 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 21:49 | Link to Comment mock turtle
mock turtle's picture

ummm...some of us consider lead to be just another precious metal

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:05 | Link to Comment Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

With all the talk of Goldman employees working long torturous hours I have to wonder if those employees who have secured a privately owned weapon have the time and/or inclination to take the time to learn how to operate and maintain their POW's properly. After all, there is much more to safe weapons operations than the point and click common in running prop trading desk operations

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 22:43 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Hi Miles,

That's funny! I have only had a couple courses but I agree with you it is night and day, knowing and not knowing what is and is not true about your weapon. I wish they taught it in school like they used to. I'd feel safer if everyone was trained. Some of the discipline involved, it is hard to express, but I have seen yahoos turned around and start acting right after gun training. It's just so serious...

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 22:53 | Link to Comment sandman.
sandman.'s picture

MsCreant,

Thanks for the warm introduction.  I  really appreciate it.

In terms of my choice for close range, I own a few PPKs and got a PPS several months ago.  I like it.  Their ad is amusing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHJE1AiMCTU

And Marla, I know you're an HK fan.  Why HK?

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 23:07 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

You are very welcome. I always liked how you would get your point across but not take the bait or get ugly-- as I said, a gentleman. Kind of like watching aikido, watching you work. I also benfited from your take on history. We did not interact much but I enjoyed you.

This site is a lot of fun. There is a diverse range of concerned folks who come through here. There is a lot to learn. Glad to see you!!

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:51 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:04 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:07 | Link to Comment delacroix
delacroix's picture

if someone is intent on shooting you, a handgun is probably not gonna stop them.maybe they should invest in body armor. when the time comes, they'll run and hide.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:28 | Link to Comment Project Mayhem
Project Mayhem's picture

I suggest investing in Krav Maga

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:18 | Link to Comment geopol
geopol's picture

The best firearms training facility in America. Celebrities, military, state police...It's a resort with a twist..

http://www.frontsightchallenge.com/

http://www.frontsight.com/

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:29 | Link to Comment Project Mayhem
Project Mayhem's picture

Isn't that place run by a scientologist

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 19:44 | Link to Comment geopol
geopol's picture

I don't know, does it change the direction of the bullet? The people that are on the wrong side of their training are DEAD..

 

Works for me..

 

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 23:09 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Rawles (survival blog) likes what they do. Rawles is pretty Christian so I can't see the scientology thing being a big deal, if they are scientologists.

Wed, 12/02/2009 - 05:57 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:15 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:16 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 22:45 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I was thinking the same thing, one of them will think they are being threatened and they are not, powder keg go boom!

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:17 | Link to Comment Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Look, as soon as someone sees you coming, and this 'end times' mentality is pervasive, it takes about 20 seconds to hide an ounce of gold so good you may not even find it again yourself.

 

So before you start thinking of all the people who live in cement jungles, think about those that can use 'natural' storage opportunities.

Bring your metal detector!

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:27 | Link to Comment FoolMeTwice
FoolMeTwice's picture

That Ms. Schroeder has absolutely no idea how handguns are actually used (or, apparently, what they are for) is quickly apparent

Sorry Marla you fail. Even a loaded handgun under your pillow is useless. The assumption being an angry mob outside. Nothing can stop an angry mob. You need a private army which they probably do and will never see advertized. They probably have attack dogs in their premises too.

Their best bet is to not have angry mob show up at their doorstep. And I am condoning none either. I want a trial by jury and jail terms.

Read up some history or stuff that happens in other country.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:52 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 19:10 | Link to Comment FoolMeTwice
FoolMeTwice's picture

Thank you!

"Please, Be the man you MSM told us you were."

There fixed it for you!

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:55 | Link to Comment WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Nothing can stop an angry mob.

Except for well aimed shots at each and every single one of the party-crashers. Plus, handguns are for when you can't carry your battle rifle around with you - and mine doesn't fit under the pillow. 

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 19:06 | Link to Comment FoolMeTwice
FoolMeTwice's picture

Stop watching Rambo.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 20:28 | Link to Comment MinnesotaNice
MinnesotaNice's picture

FoolMeTwice... your avatar and name are clever, clever, clever... love it!

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 20:53 | Link to Comment Marla Singer
Marla Singer's picture

LA Riots, meet Koreatown.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:35 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:39 | Link to Comment JohnKing
JohnKing's picture

Maybe the Goldman gun thing is some sort of forward looking indicator. If the masters of the universe are going all "granny get your gun" maybe that next leg down is on the horizon.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:43 | Link to Comment Budd Fox
Budd Fox's picture

I'll just take a note...when we will go for Goldman's evil agents we will make a point to go after them with overwhelming firepower..

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:46 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 12/02/2009 - 03:34 | Link to Comment TheGoodDoctor
TheGoodDoctor's picture

Isn't there a place you can actually mail dog shit to someone? Maybe we should set up a delivery for those at GS?

Edit: Found it!

http://www.mailpoop.com/

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 18:59 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 19:03 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 19:06 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 19:28 | Link to Comment Cursive
Cursive's picture

I read that it takes over a year to get a handgun permit in NYC.  It'll all be over by that time.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 19:38 | Link to Comment Zippyin Annapolis
Zippyin Annapolis's picture

For GS Beatle's fans: "Happiness is a warm gun mama.."

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 20:10 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 20:12 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 20:17 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 20:29 | Link to Comment The Rock
The Rock's picture

I heard from a friend of a friend that there is some in-fighting going on at GS.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 23:08 | Link to Comment Angry-Taxpayer
Angry-Taxpayer's picture

Great, You deleted my posting...

Goldman wins again...  They must also control the U.S. Constitution...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Marla, they took taxpayer money and paid billionaires bonuses with it. They are back-stopped by taxpayers because they are too big to fail.

So, let's summarize: Goldman billionaires get rich on the back of taxpayers who get fucked.

No one is doing anything about this. Now tell me again what's "a little tired."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good posting...  Right on target...

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 21:33 | Link to Comment Brahms Third Racket
Brahms Third Racket's picture

In the spirit of Xmas...

I hope they shoot their eye out.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 22:04 | Link to Comment delacroix
delacroix's picture

is chelsea clinton marrying a goldman investment banker? marc mezvinsky. didn't his dad do time for fraud (theft)             great now the secretary of states daughter is marrying into goldman. mom will be more protective of gs  than israel. oh wait, whats the difference           

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 22:26 | Link to Comment Unscarred
Unscarred's picture

I regret that this story was ever printed in the first place.  In my opinion, given the current and impending economic fallout and subsequent hardship facing our populace, merely mentioning this story is the social equivalent to yelling fire in a crowded theater.  I can't help but think the author wants to elicit such a response from a newly divorced, bankrupt, father of 4 teenagers who just lost his job at the mill.  There are some places you just don't go.  This is one of them.  Hell, look at the responses from the ZH community:

"Goldman bashing has, finally, gone just a wee bit too far."  Not even close....

They made their choices. They brought this on themselves.  I say COPE WITH IT.

+ The deficit including unfunded liabilities ....let the GS bashing continue, let them live in fear.

I am absolutetly pro-2nd amendment as well  , but I have no sympathy for vampire squid or their criminal leadership

Be afraid Goldman criminals, be very afraid. Jail might just be the safest place for you.

Absolutely ZERO sympathy. These people raped and pillaged the masses, now they can face the music. If they were even half way serious, EVERY dime of their ill-gotten bonus dollars would go to pay back the taxpayer!!

I understand that these comments come mostly in jest, augmented will some well justifiable venom, but some people actually believe this shit.  I would have never thought of this scenario on my own, and the newly divorced, bankrupt, father of 4 teenagers may never have thought of this on his own, either.  But after a few well (read- POORLY) timed personal catastrophes, having this idea planted in the minds of the already irrational mob of have-nots doesn't make an already dire situation any better.

I also admit that i used to think the people who stocked up on food were nutcases.  I do NOT think that anymore by any stretch and I now have a 2 month supply to which i continually add.

If just half of the people in the ZH community who claim to be stocking up on food are actually following through, then we already have hundreds of people indirectly acknowledging the potential of an act like this being carried through.

having worked for a broker, when folks lose money or feel they havee gotten f'd over, well, they threaten you, i'm sure they are getting lot's of stuff in the mail, and once a month they probably get a lockdonw on a floor or office due to a threat, so, it just seems pretty logical to me

And that's my whole point.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 22:57 | Link to Comment Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

What an ass. Do you really think people need an article or a whole slew of articles to get an idea of some serious retribution? Do you really think any of the J6P's with eviscerated 401k's out there would even recongnize any GS employee or any bankster for that matter?

Of course some people believe this shit. They also believe in happy endings, infinite growth and technological salvation.

What Blankfein, or whatver the fuck his name is, and his ilk should be worried about is screwing the wrong people - people with the wherewithal to swim in the same deep waters he does.

The rest of us have better things to do than to go out our way, spend precious time, fuel, treasure or ammo on one putz. No, we have to worry about the millions of people who are out of work or soon will be, running out of the wherewithal to maintain the basics and are likely to get desperate.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 23:18 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Overshoot, the kind without rifles, is ultimately more pressing than this article on sqwidz with handguns.

Got it!

Wed, 12/02/2009 - 05:39 | Link to Comment WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Oh, man, super-caliente. Not a word wasted. +[at least]1.

Wed, 12/02/2009 - 01:59 | Link to Comment JuicyTheAnimal
JuicyTheAnimal's picture

A mob of "have-nots" is an irrational mob? 

Wed, 12/02/2009 - 04:00 | Link to Comment TheGoodDoctor
TheGoodDoctor's picture

So, you are saying what is being done by the financial industry is ok? Is what is going on not criminal? Will they be prosecuted to the full extent of the law? Is there not a price to pay for their bonuses? I think a little fear might make them get some religion. So, now we are supposed to feel bad because this article came out saying some folks at GS were getting guns? Give me a break. If you think it's bad now, wait until the wheels fall off. (See Gerald Celente)

I take offense that you felt my post was worthy to include in your opinion piece. I don't advocate violence and never have.

But the guy in the "example" who got let go from the mill with the four teenagers that might not have a pot to piss in, do you think he goes to bed scared? Does he sleep well at night?

 

Wed, 12/02/2009 - 13:29 | Link to Comment Unscarred
Unscarred's picture

Am I saying what is being done by the financial industry is okay?  Not at all.  Are you saying that living under the threat of murder is justifiable?  Well, you said it twice.

I disagree with that perspective, not because I sympathize with GS employees, but rather because of its reflexive nature.

You and I both agree that murder is wrong.  You and I also agree (I think) that, economically, things will get much worse, as well.  Where my thinking differs with yours is that I believe if these stories continue, the probability for an act like this coming to fruition grows exponentially.  Again, this is something that you and I agree is undesirable.

I also recognize that the "example" from the mill without a pot to piss in will live in fear, as well - fear of where his next meal will come from, fear of where he will sleep at night, etc.  That in itself is disheartening.  So let's focus our thoughts on how to help him, not on the potentially self-fulfilling aggression towards anyone at GS.

I believe there is a distinct difference between GS bashing and inciting a riot.  Anyone who wants to bash, by all means, pile on.  But saying "fuck the squid" is much different than "kill the squid."

Wed, 12/02/2009 - 14:21 | Link to Comment Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

People reap what they sow. The real problem is the from GS' et al perspective, it's just pixels, not human lives destroyed - pathological greed on a global scale. The system will not and cannot fix it.

That being said, Marla et al need to stick to providing useful information, not posting bleeding heart bullshit about vile fuckers and putting at risk this most excellent site and it's contributors.

ZH made me do it indeed. What a load of bollocks.

Wed, 12/02/2009 - 15:46 | Link to Comment Unscarred
Unscarred's picture

I appreciate your perspective, and I assume that Tyler, Marla, et al, also recognize they're not going to win any popularity contests here with Shakespearean Tragedies about investment bankers.  But let us examine your statement of reaping what one sows:

For the investment banker who rapes and pillages, he will be met with unhappy clients, along with those affected by the economic fallout.  But how about the 1 in 4 homeowners who are underwater in their mortgages right now?  How about the 1 in 10 who are defaulting on their loans?  Were they not also culpable in this mess by taking on greater amounts of leverage than better judgement would have prevented?  Are they not the reason why banks are not extending new credit?  Are they not responsible for their own decisions in entering into a contractual obligation?  Should they not be met by pitchforks and handguns and irrational mobs?

Granted, GS has not just persevered, they have flourished.  So have general contractors who didn't overextend themselves, only to pick up additional construction projects that were funded entirely by the Obama stimulus program.  Should we take back their profits, too?

For Goldman, that success has made them a lightning rod of criticism and a 21st century John Law.  And don't read his Wikipedia entry, read the section in Charles Mackay's "Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds" - in fact, read the whole book, because the reactions within this thread encompass Mackay's very premise (especially the very end of the section about The Mississippi Company).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_Popular_Delusions_and_the_Mad...

I'm not a GS apologist, but let's be fair and consistent about how we assign blame and restitution.

Wed, 12/02/2009 - 16:21 | Link to Comment Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Sowing and reaping applies to everyone - been there, done that. There is a very significant difference between uneducated economically unsavvy consumers, greedy Madoff clients and the global impact firms such as GS have. You are correct - idiots not understanding (intentionally or otherwise) what they are signing have as much culpability in this whole clusterfuck as the bankers that knowingly offered it. The same applies to the packagers/peddlers of said toxic paper, to which GS is a party.

I begrudge no ones honest wealth. It seems there is precious little of that these days.

Fuck fair, consistent and the horse they rode in on. Look around - do things look fair or consistant? That's life.

Wed, 12/02/2009 - 19:03 | Link to Comment TheGoodDoctor
TheGoodDoctor's picture

It's like McBeth. "Out damned spot!" That is all I am saying. The Tell Tale Heart. Again, not the threat of murder. You miss my point completely.

The fear that they know they did something wrong and that they know it. That is why they are arming themselves.

I find it mildly amusing.

It's like proponents of the Patriot Act saying, "Well, what do you have to worry about..... unless you have something to hide?"

Wed, 12/02/2009 - 20:42 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

very nice

Wed, 12/02/2009 - 21:43 | Link to Comment Unscarred
Unscarred's picture

I understand your point completely, I just disagree with it.

Marla (I'm assuming) has done nothing wrong.  Yet, she still carries a gun (as stated in her own comments).  Why?  I'll assume because she's fearful of a random act of violence towards a less than physically imposing female (again, I'm assuming) in NYC.  Is it smart?  Absolutely!

Therefore, if people the world over are openly and publicly bashing and berating you and have a reason to come after you, is it smart to arm yourself?  Absolutely.

I think that you and I agree on more points that we've acknowledged thus far.  Neither of us would want to see something happen.  Neither of us feel that Goldman's hands are clean.  Where I think we fundamentally disagree is that you feel these articles serve only to instill fear in GS employees for their roll in this shit storm, and I feel that these articles have the potential for a reflexive outcome, that's all.

If we disagree, that's okay.  But think I understand where you're coming from, and I appreciate your conversation.

Wed, 12/02/2009 - 23:41 | Link to Comment TheGoodDoctor
TheGoodDoctor's picture

It's minutiae really between you and I. I get the fact that we agree. I have no qualms with the second amendment. I have no qualms with arming oneself.

What I do have a problem with is trying to curry favor with the public for a "woe is Goldman" article, which I see this article as more of the spin machine shedding light on the issue so that people feel bad for Goldman.

And I say, "I do not."

I'm not saying that the articles instill fear in the GS employees themselves for their role in the shit storm. I am saying I do not have any sympathy for them. That is all really. End of story.

I believe the saying is "You've made your bed, now lie in it." Or maybe more "You gotta do what you gotta do." Or "For each action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."

And finally, "Ya can't change the laws of physics, Captain!"

And ditto on the sharing of the coversation!

Wed, 12/02/2009 - 23:54 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Good Doctor,

One of my quotes was on his list too. As I see it, my one big job as a mother is to help my son understand there are consequences for actions. I do this in the security of our home and our relationship so that he can learn safely without taking lumps he can't handle.

They took taxpayer money from us, then turn around and foreclose on entire cities? When they are not taking a loss, just so they can collect the money? Yop, get em coming and going. Ho, ho.

We all can build a list of the harm they have done that shows a blantant disregard for their fellow humans.

Call it karma, call it bad upbringing, if they are worried about retaliation, THAT IS A NATURAL CONSEQUENCE OF THEIR COLLECTIVE ACTIONS. All mothers, from a small fry like me to Mother Nature herself, know this. If you don't learn this safely as a child, you learn it later when you push the boundaries too far and get the sh!t knocked out of you as an adult.

You hope they learn before it gets out of control. But getting out of control is how we do control when all else fails.

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 00:29 | Link to Comment Unscarred
Unscarred's picture

MsCreant - I completely agree that must one suffer consequences for their actions;  people affiliated with a group will ultimately be judged by the collective actions of that group; and that is important to understand what those boundaries of good judgement are.

And while we all agree that murder/violence is not acceptable, I just think that there could be consequences to promoting it.  Thanks.

GD - I did not see this as a "woe is Goldman" article, nor am I'm not hoping to drum up sympathy for GS employees, but I understand how you saw it that way.  Thanks again.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 22:23 | Link to Comment Rollerball
Rollerball's picture

This is simply "Devolution, Part II:  The Taunting".  (Chapter I was "The Flaunting".)

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 22:27 | Link to Comment Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Marla gurgled "Goldman bashing has, finally, gone just a wee bit too far."

Not. In. A. Thousand. Lifetimes.

No quarter, no mercy, no marker on the fresh dirt.

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 23:48 | Link to Comment laughing_swordfish
laughing_swordfish's picture

Come on Marla, Be reasonable.

Goldman-Bashing IMHO hasn't gone far enough.

Too many of the ordinary sheeple have really no idea of who The Squid is or why the entire Squid Conspiracy is such a threat to the nation.

And as for VIOLENCE? Well, the old saying goes that sometimes the tree of Liberty needs to be watered with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

Now I'm not for disturbing the peace - and if The Squid would instead use their ill-gotten bonus swag to START repaying their interest-free discount-window loans (read: "Rolling Bailout") and promise to sin no more I'd be the first to say "leave them be".

"Bad Swordfish - bad, bad, beating up on the poor little Squid like that" I can almost hear Marla saying.

Marla, just who do you think hangs out at 85 Broad? SpongeBob SquarePants?

From where I stand, the chances that The Squid will clean up its act are the proverbial two- and slim just left the building.

So, with all that, the only thing to do is to declare Open Season on Vampire Squid - no bag limit - and let the chips fall where they may.

Personally,I'd love to see the ashen look on LB's face when he confronts the angry armed ZH'er who, as he aims the long-barrelled .44 magnum (my sidearm of choice) utters the classic line: " Are you feeling lucky today, punk?"

We need a little less "peace and love" and more "Eastwood" in this here ocean, that's for sure.

 

KptLt. laughing swordfish

9er Unterseeboote Flotille

 

 

 

 

 

Wed, 12/02/2009 - 00:00 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 12/02/2009 - 00:05 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 12/02/2009 - 00:28 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 12/02/2009 - 00:47 | Link to Comment chindit13
chindit13's picture

Too far?  When the hedge fund posing as a BHC has the BHC status taken away, and when the FDIC/taxpayer debt guarantees are removed on GS bonds, then maybe all the hate directed toward Goldman will seem excessive.  Of course I might also be in favor of a 99% tax on company bonuses, with the proceeds used to top off a lot of unemployment insurance funds, since without the taxpayer not a single Goldman employee would even be getting a paycheck this month, much less a bonus, and squatters would be trying to keep warm in Blankfein's old office.

By the way, why not try to get Sergey on a work furlough so he can re-write the code for CAPTCHA.

Wed, 04/21/2010 - 22:38 | Link to Comment velobabe
velobabe's picture

there you are right at the end of the thread.

we got a pattern, HOUSTON.

CAPTCHA they scare me, do you think them up?

Wed, 12/02/2009 - 01:13 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 12/02/2009 - 03:55 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 12/03/2009 - 09:39 | Link to Comment Sqworl
Sqworl's picture

Why do cyber bank robbers need guns??  We were robbed by our government who gave GS the PIN to our tax receivable account!!!

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