Goldman Sachs Responds To Zero Hedge

Tyler Durden's picture

It seems quite a few individuals noticed our post attempting to justify some very peculiar language in not just a certain Goldman Sachs Internet disclaimer, but also the strange wording prominently featured in critical GS-client agreements. One happened to be Goldman Sachs itself. We take this opportunity to present the response by Goldman Sachs' spokesman Ed Canaday:

Dear Mr Durbin:

This is in response to your recent blog about our web site disclaimer. It is quite usual for websites to have disclaimers that refer to the monitoring of site usage. Most web sites, including yours we noticed, track usage by their visitors. This is primarily used for marketing and to help inform decision about enhancing content.

Your suggestion that we monitor our web site to facilitate front-running is untrue and offensive.

Sincerely

Ed Canaday
Vice President
Goldman, Sachs & Co.

____________________
Ed Canaday
Office: xxx-xxx-xxxx
Cell: xxx-xxx-xxxx

We are happy to have caught the attention of Mr. Canaday. We believe this is the start of a great ongoing dialog. In that vein, Marla has replied to Mr. Canaday and Goldman Sachs, attempting to elaborate on some of the point that Ed did not touch upon. I present it below and am looking forward for Goldman's forthcoming reponse:

Dear Mr. Canady:

Thanks for your quick reply.

For your future reference, the correct spelling for "Tyler" is "Tyler Durden." (A re-viewing of "Fight Club" might be in order, but I know Goldman VPs probably rarely have time for such luxuries).

Obviously, we want to make sure we have our facts correct so I am pleased to see your email. Perhaps you can lay to rest some questions we have for the record:

1. Indeed, data use disclaimers are a common feature on most websites. Still, I think you will agree that where usage patterns are so directly linked with potential investment activity and customer intentions it is a bit unusual not to have a more explicit description of the kind of use Goldman intends here. This is particularly so where customer attitudes are concerned, and appearances are important. "Internal business purposes" is a bit vague in this respect, don't you find? This seems unlike Goldman, usually a firm known for very careful attention to detail. Why is a more specific description of such purposes not included? I would think that easier than explaining the matter repeatedly to random bloggers (and customers).

2. I notice that you have not taken the opportunity to address similar disclaimer language in the form contracts used by Goldman and Spear, Leeds and Kellogg. Was this omission intentional or an oversight? (For your reference you can find the language we are curious about here: http://www.zerohedge.com/node/12083). "You acknowledge that we may monitor your use of the Services for our own purposes (and not for your benefit). We may use the resulting information for internal business purposes or in accordance with the rules of any applicable regulatory or self-regulatory body and in compliance with applicable law and regulation."

Not to be a stickler, but the drafting here seems quite careless.
Note the differing terms between the website disclaimer "...the resultant information may be used by GS for its internal business purposes OR in accordance with the rules of any applicable regulatory or self-regulatory organization...." (emphasis added) and the form disclaimer "...we may use the resulting information for internal business purposes or in accordance with the rules of any applicable regulatory or self-regulatory body AND in compliance with applicable law and regulation...." (emphasis added).

As a reformed legal professional myself, this seems a bit sloppy to me. Can you comment on the language and in particular why a more explicit definition of "internal business purposes" is not included?

3. I also notice that you do not specifically address our question:
"...has Goldman has ever actually used 360 submitted information in the decision making process of its prop trading desk?" Could you give us a response there? Perhaps you might augment that to include the decision making process of any Goldman investment decisions rather than just the prop desk and all information Goldman collects about 360 users.

And lastly, while we have your attention, we were hoping you could make a statement for Zero Hedge and its readers on the long discussed topic on our pages regarding Goldman Sachs' effective monopolization of Principal Program Trading in the New York Stock Exchange. In other venues you have attributed this domination solely to Goldman's selection as the one and only SLP currently used by the NYSE. Would you care to elaborate how that fits in with the NYSE's upcoming changes to their DPTR (http://www.zerohedge.com/node/11769)
specifically as pertaining to J and K account type indicators. Was Goldman in any way consulted in the making of this decision by the NYSE? Did Goldman have any direct communication with the SEC on this issue?

Thanks for your help with these matters. As an aside, if there is a contact at Goldman we can routinely direct these questions to that might be helpful for both of us going forward. I look forward to hearing from you.

Best Regards,

"Marla Singer"

Of course, as soon as we receive additional disclosure on this matter, we will post it promptly.

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mentat's picture

I expect *crickets* in response.

wiskeyrunner's picture

Keep at em, don't back off. Beat them from the inside out from the inside out.

andy55's picture

Very nice work, MS! Let's hope for the best in that we get a detailed and forthright response. Will they provide a response riddled with ambiguity and straw men like they did for Matt Taibbi is another question entirely...

crazyjerrygarcialover's picture
crazyjerrygarcialover (not verified) Jul 2, 2009 11:36 AM

"Dear Ms. Singer:

On behalf of GS, thank you for your well thought out inquiry/reply. Unfortunately, it is not GS's policy to divulge proprietary trading technology/info to media outlets, such as ZeroHedge. Again, thank you for your inquiry.

Warm regards,
GS"

Talkhard's picture

Rise up and stab them with your plastic forks!

Anonymous's picture

a spork would be better. one could gouge and remove the eyeball much more efficiently

Talkhard's picture

Rise up and gouge them with your plastic sporks!!

Anonymous's picture

Constructive critique of Marla's letter: please grammar check. I'm not an English major, but sentence structure in these letters should be a tad better. Love you guys!

andy55's picture

Example please. I'm pretty solid with that stuff and didn't note any issues.

Marla Singer's picture

I would have written a shorter letter but I didn't have the time.

 

(We wanted to get a response out quickly or I would have wordsmithed some more).

Anonymous's picture

It's what we regret in retrospect that better informs our subsequent actions. I'd move that up on my "Action Items" list, Marla (and nobody loves ya more than me.) Hang in there, girl. The pressure and slams only build exponentially from here if you guys keep the stream aflowin'.

XO,

Bob

Veteran's picture

Excellent riposte, Marla. Have to agree with mentat, though

cricket, cricket

Racer's picture

Nice one :) Keep up the good work ZH

JordanYT1's picture

Mr. Durbin... ha ha... they got Tyler mixed up with the Senator from Illinois.

Anonymous's picture

lol

Mr.Durbin's picture

Thats Mr. Durbin Sir!

Mazarin's picture

1) Don't EVER loose your sense of humor with these foes - it's the ultimate insurgent/underdog weapon. They will attempt to draw you out, drag you down, make you fight on their grey field of guarded corporate-speak and literal banality. They will try to fire your indignation with aloofness and arrogance. But you will remain Voltaire-like in your impeccable reason, factual accuracy, use of colorful metaphor, and dazzling rapier wit.

2) These requests for information might ALSO be made, in parallel, as SHAREHOLDERS of Goldman Sach who are worried about corporate liability. Anyone you know hold a bunch of GS stock?

Anonymous's picture

Is a FOIA request a possibility on the question about GS-SEC communication?

Just accentating the seriousness of your question.

Bob's picture

DID I HEAR THAT RIGHT?!!!  You see where that could go, I trust.  What does it take to get heard at the meeting?  Where and when is it?

GS shares are dear, but I can cough up a share for the price of admission . . .

Anybody else?

I can picture a sea of zerohedge hats (though I would prefer t-shirts, since hats can be dress-coded out just about anywhere) in that "audience" of active GS shareholders. 

Anonymous's picture

If you're going to criticize Goldman's spelling, then be sure to get yours right. The reply should have been addressed to Mr. Canaday, not Canady.

Anonymous's picture

You need a humor transplant.

calgaryschmooze's picture

Canada Day was yesterday. Please don't bring our country into this, even though our central bank chief is ex-GS.

Anonymous's picture

you're an idiot. obviously that was intentional. if that went over your head you should go back to the yahoo boards.

Rex Crotch's picture

Dear Marla,

Go fuckyourself.

GS

I seriously doubt they will give you a legitimate response. They gave a half ass one to Matt Taibbi.

ejlamas's picture
ejlamas (not verified) Jul 2, 2009 12:02 PM

what an amazingly lame response from Canaday!
As in their response to the Rolling Stones article, what they choose to answer and how they do it says a lot about who has the true on its side

Anonymous's picture

Looks like cnbc's got the Obama (their lord and savior) count down clock going. Will we see another propaganda rally?

Undertaker's picture
Undertaker (not verified) Jul 2, 2009 12:05 PM

Being Ed is one of the beneficiaries of what is the greatest fleecing operation in the history of the world I doubt he is much of an expert on what offensive truly is.
As a side note I wonder if he has ever read: Other People's money by Nomi Prins.

Anonymous's picture

I doubt you going get any reply. The only reply you probably will be getting is "Please, Talk to my Lawyers"...

aldousd's picture

Lawyers? Who has money to pay for lawyers?... oh... wait. nevermind.

mezcal's picture

Not to be a stickler, but...

Ah Marla, you slay me!

wiskeyrunner's picture

Goldman will try and keep you off balance, stay focused. A lot of comments are coming indented to do just that. Keep at em, beat them from the inside out.

max2205's picture

Dear Marla,

GS would propose to your staff an offer of employment for one year at $500,000 (US TARP of course). Contingent would be to shut down your Website.

Best Regards,

GS

Bob's picture

Yes, you could no doubt do that job--saying nothing--from home. 

You might even get a new widescreen for your basement crib.  Not to mention 52 paychecks and flight vouchers plus office equipment . . . 

Yeah, right! 

Got2balls's picture

It begs the question, why is CNBC GS start caring about what bloggers are saying?

Anonymous's picture

The Force is strong in this one...

Arco's picture

My thoughts exactly. It legitimizes ZH.

KidDynamite's picture

the weekly program trading stats are out for last week, which includes the Russel Rebal, and as I explained last week, the customer facilitation numbers are way up.

http://www.nyse.com/pdfs/PT06.22-06.26.pdf

however, i'm somewhat mystified by the complete absence of Goldman from the report... did they forget to file their DPTR all week?

Marla - the disappearance of GS from this report this week is far more interesting than their usual dominance which you guys harp on every week... look into it.

ShankyS's picture

Very nise Merla. Maybee if Denis Kneel piced up on this it woud get somewere. Mr. Turden is a nobodi. Why would they want to mess with a bunch of digital dickweeds? Bet Mr. Canday luzes his job just for repliing to this. I hope they do respong. Good luuk!

Woodshedder's picture

Goldman will respond.

Remember Van Pragg's statement?

They are "painfully aware" of their need to be a force of good, and dodgy legal wording that gives the appearance that may data mine their own clients is definitely not helping with the whole force of good thing.

agrotera's picture

Yea, the force for goodness causes Darth (Van Pragg) Vader and his lackeys great pain.

agrotera's picture

Hi Marla,

I wish you hadn't divulged the 'fight club' info, because that is really personal to you and the OH crew... next thing you know Dennis DW K will be making fun of the symbolism and of course, that just ticks me off.

But, other than that, great progress!!! Can't wait to see the reply.

Anonymous's picture

GS -- they must laugh at annoyances like Mr. Tyler.... considering the salaries they will rake in - and continue to rake in.

What would they even care if the whole world hated them?

They can buy all the love they need. Each and every employee. Well -the top 10% producers at least.

crazyjerrygarcialover's picture
crazyjerrygarcialover (not verified) Jul 2, 2009 1:47 PM

They will care some day soon. When enough folks lose their homes, life savings and are hungry, the mob will go looking for the "perpetrators" and not to say thank you.

"What is a man, deep down inside?
But a raging beast, with nothing to hide."

Peter Monk/Phil Lesh, "Passenger"

Anonymous's picture

I would add to that...

"...if the thunder don't get ya then the lightning will."

deadhead's picture

for our GS friends...

"When life looks like easy street there is danger at your door"

SheHunts's picture

The gov already has their response to our uprising planned and in the deck. It's called Operation Garden Plot. Google it.

crazyjerrygarcialover's picture
crazyjerrygarcialover (not verified) SheHunts Jul 3, 2009 8:46 AM

Chilling stuff. But two questions:

1) What happens if standing up for ourselves happens at the political level? For instance, I believe NH legislature has already drafted and approved either a resolution or law addressing their states rights "should they believe that the Feds exceeding their authority."

2) What happens when Guardsmen look across the line and see their brothers, sisters, fathers and mothers amongst the "mob"? I'm not sure but I think DNA hardcode is a stronger bond than allegiance to any "authority."

I'm not advocating anything, simply wondering aloud.

Anonymous's picture

"I am shocked that there is market manipulation going on here...shocked."

Arm's picture

Your winnings, sir.