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Goldman Tells Its "Special" Clients To Sell Gold Even As It Raises Its Price Target On The Shiny Metal
A week ago Goldman raised its price target on gold to $1,300/ounce, an action which judging by the firm's historical record of putting its clients' interest in its rightful last place, led us to be skeptical: "The report will likely result in a brief pop in spot as the idiot money rushes into the latest Goldman trap. Alas, it
also means that GS is now offloading. Be very wary of market dynamics
over the next month." Today we realize our skepticism was perfectly justified: in the latest Perspectives from Goldman Sachs Asset Management (intended FOR BROKER-DEALER, FINANCIAL INSTITUTION, OR INSTITUTIONAL INVESTOR USE ONLY. NOT FOR DISTRIBUTION TO CLIENTS OR THE GENERAL PUBLIC), in addition to summarizing all the other recent actions presented by the firm's key departments, way in the back, in very small print when discussing commodities, the letter author notes: "Shifted our stance on gold after years of being long; see gold as vulnerable to Central Bank inactivity in the face of rising deflation risk." Once again, those who bet that Goldman does precisely the opposite of what it tells clients to do, win.
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A-Ha! It's the old triple head fake.
One more report to go full circle to say they are neutral and all the bases are covered.
Toss a juke in there and it will be complete...
Double-reverse flea flicker...wait, there's no eligible receivers downfield! Quick, throw it to the tackle, the ref's taking a potty break!
If they're f^&%ing their own clients, then why the hell does anyone still want to work with them?
Masochism? Stupidity? Desperation? All of them? :p
the obvious answer is your assumption is wrong.
But you guys love to make stupid assumptions and then ask why why why? as if it's a mystery.
I wonder why you do that?
Dogmatism? Fear? Incompetence? all of them?
If you still deny the obvious and repeatedly demonstrated culture of corruption within Goldman Sucks, and still deny its illegal backdoor dealings with the Federal Reserve and the federal government, as in its manipulation of the precious metals markets, then there really is no hope for you at all ---- you have chosen to remain within the Matrix.
I have always wondered what motivates and inspires Quislings, traitors, and moral cowards of all stripes. Can you help enlighten me please?
well here's just 1 small example for ya.
You state above:
its manipulation of the precious metals markets
So goldman (et al) are forcing the price of pm's down, is that right?
Well, you see, I personally LOVE to buy gold cheap, so I am thrilled at their manipulation, as it is a BENEFIT to me, as any manipulation is, to those who can see it.
I'm sorry you fail to see the advantage to buying things that are good value.
Who says that one cannot take advantage of market corruption while simultaneously denouncing it and publicizing it?
You curiously display the exact same logical flaws in your every argument as JohnnyBravo/MasterBates. Yes, very curious indeed.
There is benefit to manipulation until there isn't. Good luck with your approach. Sounds like a Thanksgiving turkey to me.
Oh, and lest we forget....
If they can get one group of clients selling whilst another group buys, simply crossing the positions, brokering the confluence of supply and demand, risk-less repositioning of client er, excuse me, counter-party positions, there ain't nothing better.
While the prop desk starts to run and gun the market starting the death knell squeeze of JPM and HSBC.
What miracles thou dost deliver to your humble workers carrying forth Thy Works.
Next, they'll wind up leasing Jerusalem, charging entry fees equally to Jews, Christian and Muslims alike, doing Gods' work.
FOFOA FOFOA FOFOA FOFOA FOFOA FOFOA FOFOA
FOFOA FOFOA FOFOA FOFOA FOFOA FOFOA FOFOA
FOFOA FOFOA FOFOA FOFOA FOFOA FOFOA FOFOA
FOFOA FOFOA FOFOA FOFOA FOFOA FOFOA FOFOA
Got gold, silver, food, guns and FOFOA, bitchez?!
fofoa.blogspot.com
Sure gold is going to the sky, but silver would go up to the moon...
The other view.
http://www.caseyresearch.com/editorial/3585?ppref=GLD192ED0810C
I thought gold performs well during deflation.
gooooOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLdman.
Funny, was down to $1,218.00, then POOF fairy dust!!.....$1,232.00
A $19.00 swing...............why?.
Did the Israeli's take off?
Lloyd looked at his wrist, not for the time, but for holy guidance by the all powerful acronym... WWJD.
Ah! Yes! Jesus would be a douchebag and tell his clients to sell his gold so that it could be bought on the market by... ME!
Cin,
Bad boy!....
Wrong acronym, it's WWGD.
I stand corrected and you're right.
He's doing God's work, not the J-man.
No, I think he had it right the first time. "What Would Jehovah Do?"
But, couldn't this just be the right hand not knowing what the left hand was doing? Does it automatically HAVE to be a conspiracy? Does *everything* have to be a conspiracy? Is there no room for incompetence and random chance anymore?
Yes, let's just throw the grenade of "conspiracy" into the conversation, and thereby attempt to shut it down. Isn't that how the game is played by pro-establishment defenders and supporters of everything status-quo?
Well, some use conspiracy like ketchup, even on their eggs (blech).
Also, Tyler posts another article a few hours later that says "Hey, gold is up". So does that mean the conspiracy failed? Or was that part of the conspiracy?
That's really the wonderful thing about conspiracies (or, say, global warming): up can mean down and down can mean up.
A conspiracy to suppress the price of gold can exist and operate, and still not be 100% effective. In fact, it is ludicrous to suggest that it would be so --- otherwise, gold would still be $250 an ounce.
Manipulation does NOT necessarily imply absolute control! To suggest that it does is just a strawman argument. Gold can, and probably has been, suppressed, but the power to do so by those doing it is not absolute. When has the power to interfere in any market ever been absolute anyway? To say that manipulation cannot exist because the price of gold continues to rise is the worst kind of illogic and failure of imagination, and indicative of the classic Boolean Fallacy: "If not A, then B and ONLY B."
I think the "strawman" may be the site mascot of ZeroHedge. It's a term that's used ad nauseam in these little discussions.
Be that as it may, your post kinda proved my point: conspiracy theories are impossible to disprove because no amount of evidence will ever convince their adherents that their theories are wrong.
So for our particular conspiracy theory here, we have Goldman Sachs supposedly manipulating the price of gold downwards. Already, this doesn't pass the smell test, as GS, like any business, is interested in making trades that make money. They could care less whether gold is $100 or $100,000 dollars an ounce. GS wants to make money on the price movement, whether up or down.
As well, we have the amazing run-up in gold prices over the last few years. Goldman Sachs sure is doing a bang-up job of suppressing those gold prices, eh?
So in order to believe in this conspiracy theory, one would have to A) believe that a capitalistic entity is freely choosing to forego profits in order to "maniuplate" the price of gold so that... well, I'm actually not clear on that part! and B) that the fact that said manipulation has so obviously failed, and that the company itself has even recommended buying gold, is zero proof that this maniuplation theory is all a bunch of phooey.
Mmmm... yeah, sorry... I choose to live on planet Logic and on this planet, we say your conspiracy theory is full of shit.
A more disingenuous argument I have not run across in a good while --- I doubt you made it, or could have made it, out of sheer ignorance.
But let me pretend you made it in good faith.
First, you overlook the VERY simple fact that the price of any asset does NOT have to rise for an entity to make money off the resulting price movements. GS can (and does) make just as much, if not more, on shorting gold as they can on going long gold.
Second, you conveniently overlook the fact that there can be (and are) motives far larger than mere profit in any market manipulation. Acting on behalf of the Federal Reserve to prop up the value of the dollar by suppressing the prices of gold and silver would be one such possible motive, would it not? Or are you suggesting that companies and corporations have NEVER sacrificed short-term profits in the pursuit of higher or longer-range (e.g., political) goals?
Third, you again return to your same original strawman argument that because the price of gold has been rising for the last decade, that somehow that therefore proves that its price could not have been suppressed. Please note carefully my choice of wording: SUPPRESSED. I did NOT say "permanently held down". Can your mind not grasp the fact that a price movement can be slowed or diminished even if still continues its general trend? Really, what is so hard about this concept for you? (Nothing, I suspect --- but honest debate is not your goal here).
Fourth, do you REALLY expect us to take the public pronouncements and investment advice of a company that has demonstrably acted in a corrupt and market-making manner, utterly above all law and regulation (and clearly with official sanction), said advice being revised, altered and contradicted on an almost daily basis as the political winds dictate, at face value? And are you trying to deny that said corporation does work and has been effectively working as an agent of the US federal government and central bank? My God, its highest members routinely and shamelessly shuffle back and forth between the corporate board and the company's top executive positions, and various key presidential cabinet positions, on a regular basis!
Nobody who would stray onto this site is THAT naive. Please try again.
"First, you overlook the VERY simple fact that the price of any asset does NOT have to rise for an entity to make money off the resulting price movements. GS can (and does) make just as much, if not more, on shorting gold as they can on going long gold."
No I don't. I clearly stated that GS wants to make money any way it can (which should be brain-bleedingly obvious, as this is what every company wants to do). Which direction the price of gold is going is immaterial to GS. They only make money if they PREDICT which way it's going to go in the future. If they think it's going to go up, then they would obviously buy gold. If they think it's going to go down, then they would short gold. THEY CAN'T DO BOTH AT THE SAME TIME and make money! They have to choose one or the other! If GS has been shorting gold for the past few years, then they've been losing a ton of money and obviously failing at their supposed scheme to "suppress the price of gold".
"Second, you conveniently overlook the fact that there can be (and are) motives far larger than mere profit in any market manipulation."
This may be somewhat true, but I would propose to you that making profit, and lots of it, is the main driving force BY FAR of any company. If it wasn't, then that company would soon be out of business.
"Acting on behalf of the Federal Reserve to prop up the value of the dollar by suppressing the prices of gold and silver would be one such possible motive, would it not?"
I suppose ANYTHING is possible, but that's a leap of logic I'm not willing to make with you. I believe that GS is trying to make money any way it can, just like any other company, and I don't see the angle they would have to suppress the price of gold or anything else because, again, the PRICE of anything they trade is immaterial to them; it's where the price is headed that's important.
"Or are you suggesting that companies and corporations have NEVER sacrificed short-term profits in the pursuit of higher or longer-range (e.g., political) goals?"
I can't make any such blanket statement like that because I haven't been in every corporate boardroom throughout time. However, I have enough knowledge of how business works and HOW HUMAN BEINGS WORK that causes me to disbelieve conspiracy theories such as yours. If you can show me EVIDENCE, clear EVIDENCE and not just your opinion, I am open to changing my mind. As Keynes said, after he was accused of basically being a flip-flopper, "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?"
"Third, you again return to your same original strawman argument that because the price of gold has been rising for the last decade, that somehow that therefore proves that its price could not have been suppressed."
The strawman again! ZH mascot represent!
It is logical that the price of anything could be suppressed. I have a very hard time believing, however, that a for-profit company would do any such thing unless it made them money and I do not see how GS could make money on SUPPRESSING the price of gold. And again, you give no evidence for your radical claim. The truth is usually boring and straightforward, not fantastic as you seem to believe.
"Really, what is so hard about this concept for you? (Nothing, I suspect --- but honest debate is not your goal here"
What's the point of attacking my "honesty". I have my opinions, you have yours. I don't think you're dishonest, I just think your opinions are wrong. Why attack my motives? I'm just here to read some articles, hopefully learn something and to engage in debate when a particular comment inspires me to (much like you, I would suppose).
"Fourth, do you REALLY expect us to take the public pronouncements and investment advice of a company that has demonstrably acted in a corrupt and market-making manner, utterly above all law and regulation (and clearly with official sanction), said advice being revised, altered and contradicted on an almost daily basis as the political winds dictate, at face value?"
Whether you follow GS's advice is immaterial to me. The fact is, if GS's advice doesn't make money FOR ITS CLIENTS, then GS is going to lose those clients to competitors and go out of business. This is the essence of capitalistic competition. It is highly doubtful that GS would do anything that made the prospects of profits for their clients less likely, such as suppressing the price of a particular product. Suppressing the price of gold would make ZERO money for GS!
i'm afraid logic doesn't work with akak.
he'll continue screaming that goldman is evil and screws all their customers.
and he'll continue whining about how it 'makes no sense' that they still have clients.
well something doesn't make sense, but it's not what akak's hopium has him believing
GS's record of successful trading days is a little more than random chance.
But, um, isn't that the whole company's purpose? To make money off the various exchanges? To say that they're very good at it doesn't mean that they're participating in some kind of conspiracy, just as the Saints weren't participating in a conspiracy to win the Super Bowl. It just means they were/are better than everyone else.
I mean, I'm sure they probably hire some pretty smart people at GS that know what they're doing.
i am wondering, is goldman writing for instiutional investors or individual retail investors? not that I care, I dont make deicisons based on what goldman says, but I wonder what percent of gold is actually owned by individuals? i am guessing it is small. anybody know?
Do Like breeezer said, go to
Harvey Organs post..............you will see where the Golds going.
They give a shit less what GS is doing HERE.
I was starting to get worried about holding all that gold. Now I'm not. Thanks Goldman!
I just love it:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-april-19-2010/these-f--king-guys--...
First Post -
re: Harvey Organ - There was a recent link to this article
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_08/willie081210.html
which is about the naked short/fail to deliver ponzi
I've been lurking here for more than a year and have learned alot but I'll admit that while I don't know much about this subject I did find myself raising my eyebrows in a 'Ahaa!' kind of way.
Thanks to all for the imparting of knowledge, insight and humour.
My favorite line in comments to date: 'we're so past fucked we can't even catch a bus back to fucked'
My subgenus logic as to why Gold is still a good buy:
I hate to be "that guy", but (thanks largely to ZH) GS KNOWS everyone KNOWS what they do, so what crossed my paranoid mind was that the mega-hype of gold could be reverse psychology. (ie they wanted ppl to sell)
I think silver will out perform personally.
Now if someone will tell me how/where/when to make a ton off shorting Treasuries/invest in agricultural commodities (in a way I'll get my money if the market crashes); please kindly write some shit for free. No, I'll give you 15% of profits after taxes, if you can contact me.
The only defense is the "Blankfein Squint"
http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/7/2010/04/98707372.jpg
Goldman would be perfectly right about gold going down in price because of deflation except for one small detail....The Federal and State Governments spending like drunken sailors.
Their statement "see gold as vulnerable to Central Bank inactivity in the face of rising deflation risk" is self explanatory. However, their
"Shifted our stance on gold after years of being long" needs some numbers behind it. Latest SEC filings show
GOLDMAN SACHS GROUP 6/30/2010 1,454,786 (42,498) (2.84%) $174,894
that is they sold only 2.84% of their holdings in GLD in q2. if anybody can research other gold-related holdings like gold miners then it would put some color on this.
If GhoulMan Sux is up to anything with this play it is returning leased Gold to the lender. Keep the price down. They must be preparing for a big event in the near future to be so effing obvious.
regards
Sorry for my very late post (this is my first so bear with me) but I would like to raise a few issues-
Gold Manipulation, does anyone remember the London Gold Pool and the reason for its existence? It was to keep gold’s price down and the US Dollar up.
Those who claim there is no possible manipulation in gold prices failed to learn from history.
?
?
For those who do their own due diligence in buying stocks or commodities just remember this caveat, ENRON was the darling of Wall Street-until it went bankrupt. In spite of all of the best “due diligence” and research available (it was a favorite stock of fortune Magazine), nobody outside of Enron’s board knew how bad things were for the company.
Lastly, here is this-
http://www.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/094475p.pdf?
It is a PDF file, but it is under 260K so it doesn’t take too long to load.
From the actual court ruling-
All of the parties involved in an issuance have a
significant self-interest in marketing the securities
at a price greater than their true value.
The promoter/corporation and the issuer (if a separate
entity) have an obvious interest in marketing the
securities regardless of their true fair market
value. Likewise, the [legal] counsel and
underwriter, who are often retained under a
contingency fee contract, are interested in
marketing the securities at an inflated price. The
underwriter in particular, who, like an insurer,
can spread the risk of loss among many stock or
bond subscriptions, has a reduced incentive to
investigate thoroughly the true value of the securities it underwrites.
And this-
The SEC likewise cannot be reasonably relied upon to
prevent fraud because it does not conduct “merit regulation.”
Rather, it seeks to confirm that the issuer adequately disclosed
information pertaining to the security:
-So the SEC doesn’t prevent fraud when the securities are issued but only investigates after sheep have been fleeced or turned into lamb stew.
Got gold?
oh i took byron wien advice forget the year, january 1st to do list, 2002? buy enron. it like went to $80. bucks i sold. but ken lay, is a fucker of mothers.
Doug Kass 20 Surprises for 2010 -- GuruFocus.comThe PDF ended up at the bottom so hereit is again for your examinaton.
(I'm new at this bear with me.)
http://www.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/094475p.pdf
There are certainly a lot of details like that to take into consideration.I read and understand the entire article and I really enjoyed it to be honest.
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