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Gonzalo Lira On The Coming Middle-Class Anarchy

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Submitted by Gonzalo Lira

The Coming Middle-Class Anarchy

True story: A retired couple I know, Brian and Ilsa, own a home in the Southwest. It’s a pretty house, right on the manicured golf course of their gated community (they’re crazy about golf).

The only problem is, they bought the house near the top of the market in 2005, and now find themselves underwater.
 
They’ve never missed a mortgage payment—Brian and Ilsa are the kind upright, not to say uptight 60-ish white semi-upper-middle-class couple who follow every rule, fill out every form, comply with every norm. In short, they are the backbone of America.
 
Even after the Global Financial Crisis had seriously hurt their retirement nest egg—and therefore their monthly income—and even fully aware that they would probably not live to see their house regain the value it has lost since they bought it, they kept up the mortgage payments. The idea of them strategically defaulting is as absurd as them sprouting wings.
 
When HAMP—the Home Affordable Modification Program—was unveiled, they applied, because they qualified: Every single one of the conditions applied to them, so there was no question that they would be approved—at least in theory.
 

Applying for HAMP was quite a struggle: Go here, go there, talk to this person, that person, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. “It’s like they didn’t want us to qualify,” Ilsa told me, as she recounted their mind-numbing travails.
 
It was a months-long struggle—but finally, they were approved for HAMP: Their mortgage period was extended, and the interest rate was lowered. Even though their home was still underwater, and even though they still owed the same principal to their bank, Brian and Ilsa were very happy: Their mortgage payments had gone down by 40%. This was equivalent to about 15% of their retirement income. So of course they were happy.
 
However, three months later, out of the blue, they got a letter from their bank, Wells Fargo: It said that, after further review, Brian and Ilsa had in fact not qualified for HAMP. Therefore, their mortgage would go back to the old rate. Not only that, they now owed the difference for the three months when they had paid the lowered mortgage—and to add insult to injury, they were assessed a “penalty for non-payment”.
 
Brian and Ilsa were furious—a fury which soon turned to dour depression: They tried contacting Wells Fargo, to straighten this out. Of course, they were given the run-around once again.
 
They kept insisting that they qualified—they qualified! But of course, that didn’t help at all—like a football, they were punted around the inner working of the Mortgage Mess, with no answers and no accountability.
 
Finally, exhausted, Brian and Ilsa sat down, looked at the last letter—which had no signature, and no contact name or number—and wondered what to do.
 
On television, the news was talking about “robo-signatures” and “foreclosure mills”, and rank illegalities—illegalities which it seemed everyone was getting away with. To top it off, foreclosures have been suspended by the largest of the banks for 90 days—which to Brian and Ilsa meant that people who weren’t paying their mortgages got to live rent free for another quarter, while they were being squeezed out of a stimulus program that had been designed—tailor made—precisely for them.
 
Brian and Ilsa are salt-of-the-earth people: They put four kids through college, they always paid their taxes. The last time Brian broke the law was in 1998: An illegal U-turn on a suburban street.
 
“We’ve done everything right, we’ve always paid on time, and this program is supposed to help us,” said Brian. “We follow the rules—but people who bought homes they couldn’t afford get to squat in those McMansions rent free. It would have been smarter if we’d been crooks.”
 
Now, up to this point, this is just another sob story of the Mortgage Mess—and as sob stories go, up to this point, it’s no big deal.
 
But here’s where the story gets ominous—here’s where the Jaws soundtrack kicks in:
 
Brian and Ilsa—the nice upper-middle-class retired couple, who always follow the rules, and never ever break the law—who don’t even cheat on their golf scores—even when they’re playing alone (“Because if you cheat at golf, you’re only cheating yourself”)—have decided to give their bank the middle finger.
 
They have essentially said, Fuckit.
 
They haven’t defaulted—not yet. They’re paying the lower mortgage rate. That they’re making payments is because of Brian: He is insisting that they pay something—Ilsa is of the opinion that they should forget about paying the mortgage at all.
 
“We follow the rules, and look where that’s gotten us?” she says, furious and depressed. “Nowhere. They run us around, like lab rats in a cage. This HAMP business was supposed to help us. I bet the bank went along with the program for three months, so that they could tell the government that they had complied—and when the government got off their backs, they turned around and raised the mortgage back up again!”
 
“And charged us a penalty,” Brian chimes in. The non-payment penalty was only $84—but it might as well been $84 million, for all the outrage they feel. “A penalty for non-payment!”
 
Nevertheless, Brian is insisting that they continue paying the mortgage—albeit the lower monthly payment—because he’s still under the atavistic sway of his law-abiding-ness.
 
But Ilsa is quietly, constantly insisting that they stop paying the mortgage altogether: “Everybody else is doing it—so why shouldn’t we?”
 
A terrible sentence, when a law-abiding citizen speaks it: Everybody else is doing it—so why don’t we?
 
I’m like Wayne Gretsky: I don’t concern myself with where the puck has been—I look for where the puck is going to be.
 
Right now, people are having a little hissy-fit over the robo-signing scandal, and the double-booking scandal (where the same mortgage was signed over to two different bonds), and the little fights between junior tranches and senior tranches and the servicer, in the MBS mess.
 
But none of that shit is important.
 
What’s really important is Brian and Ilsa: What’s really important is that law-abiding middle-class citizens are deciding that playing by the rules is nothing but a sucker’s game.
 
Just like the poker player who’s been fleeced by all the other players, and gets one mean attitude once he finally wakes up to the con? I’m betting that more and more of the solid American middle-class will begin saying what Brian and Ilsa said: Fuckit.
 
Fuck the rules. Fuck playing the game the banksters want you to play. Fuck being the good citizen. Fuck filling out every form, fuck paying every tax. Fuck the government, fuck the banks who own them. Fuck the free-loaders, living rent-free while we pay. Fuck the legal process, a game which only works if you’ve got the money to pay for the parasite lawyers. Fuck being a chump. Fuck being a stooge. Fuck trying to do the right thing—what good does that get you? What good is coming your way?
 
Fuckit.
 
When the backbone of a country starts thinking that laws and rules are not worth following, it’s just a hop, skip and a jump to anarchy.
 
TV has given us the illusion that anarchy is people rioting in the streets, smashing car windows and looting every store in sight. But there’s also the polite, quiet, far deadlier anarchy of the core citizenry—the upright citizenry—throwing in the towel and deciding it’s just not worth it anymore.
 
If a big enough proportion of the populace—not even a majority, just a largish chunk—decides that it’s just not worth following the rules anymore, then that society’s days are numbered: Not even a police-state with an armed Marine at every corner with Shoot-to-Kill orders can stop such middle-class anarchy.
 
Brian and Ilsa are such anarchists—grey-haired, well-dressed, golf-loving, well-to-do, exceedingly polite anarchists: But anarchists nevertheless. They are not important, or powerful, or influential: They are average—that’s why they’re so deadly: Their numbers are millions. And they are slowly, painfully coming to the conclusion that it’s just not worth it anymore.
 
Once enough of these J. Crew Anarchists decide they no longer give a fuck, it’s over for America—because they are America.
 
 
Update I:
 
The Center for Public Integrity has a story, written by Michael Hudson this past August 6, that shines a light on the issue of perverse incentives of the HAMP program. These perverse incentives came to light because of a whistleblower, a former employee of Fannie Mae, filing a lawsuit. Fannie Mae was so keen on being perceived as a money-maker, after the Federal government bailout, that the aid programs passed by the Congress and signed by the President were turned into profit centers.
 
The former executive, Caroline Herron, recounts:

    “It appeared that Fannie Mae officers were focused on maximizing incentive payments available to Fannie Mae under various federal programs – even if this meant wasting taxpayer money and delaying the implementation of high-priority Treasury programs,” she claims in the lawsuit. 

    Herron alleges that Fannie Mae officials terminated her $200-an-hour consulting work in January because she raised questions about how it was administering the federal government’s push to help homeowners avoid foreclosure, known as the Home Affordable Modification Program, or HAMP.

Herron further alleged that “trial mods” were implemented regardless of eligibility of applicants, so that Fannie Mae would be eligible for Federal government bonuses.
 
Ms. Herron’s testimony in fact proves Ilsa’s suspicion that there was a scam at bottom. As Mr. Hudson writes, “Herron charges that Fannie Mae continued in headlong pursuit of ‘trial mods’ even though it knew that many had little chance of becoming permanent. [. . .] Fannie preferred doing trials, Herron alleges, because it was eligible to receive incentive payments from the Treasury Department.”
 
So in the pursuit of these perverse incentives, people who did not qualify for HAMP were enrolled in the program. And when their “trial mods” were up after 90 days, they would be notified that they didn’t qualify—regardless of whether they in fact did qualify, as in the case of Brian and Ilsa.
 
All so as to be perceived as a profitable operation, worth having been bailed out. All so as to be perceived as “returning America’s money”.
 
As of February, 2010, of the over one million homeowners’ mortgages under HAMP auspices, 83% were “trial mods”. One would assume that those 850,000 homeowners would also be assessed an $84 penalty for non-payment.
 
$84 times over 850,000? You do the math.

 

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Sat, 10/09/2010 - 10:26 | 637710 Dismal Scientist
Dismal Scientist's picture

What is more disturbing to me is that the growing unease of the populace, makes them more receptive to the arrival on the scene of a 'strongman'. I suspect the majority, even though mightily pissed off, would rather follow someone promising them justice (unpleasant consequences to follow later), than conduct a passive revolution.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 10:30 | 637715 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Some actual justice would be welcome. What I'd be most concerned about is a Peronist-style dose of "economic justice".

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 10:53 | 637743 Dismal Scientist
Dismal Scientist's picture

Agree on the need for justice, but it would need to be meted out by someone who didn't want to do it. Anyone who volunteers for the job should be avoided like the plague.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:16 | 637779 Xedus129
Xedus129's picture

I'll do it

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:51 | 637831 Paul E. Math
Paul E. Math's picture

No, let me.  I could totally do it.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 12:21 | 637873 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

Excellent post mr. Lira.

You've nailed the entire amerikan shitshow with this one...

they got a letter from their bank, Wells Fargo: It said that, after further review, Brian and Ilsa had in fact not qualified for HAMP... their mortgage would go back to the old rate... they now owed the difference for the three months when they had paid the lowered mortgage—and...they were assessed a “penalty for non-payment”. 
  
...Brian and Ilsa sat down, looked at the last letter—which had no signature, and no contact name or number—and wondered what to do. 
  
On television, the news was talking about “robo-signatures” and “foreclosure mills”, and rank illegalities—illegalities which it seemed everyone was getting away with...

 

 

 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:51 | 638051 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

Rule #3 - Plan ahead.  Just saying, "Fuck it!" is not planning ahead.  There is actually a way to make all these money problems go away.  Did you ever wonder why Andrew Jackson was on the $20 bill?  He destroyed the central bank.  Ever wonder why Abraham Lincoln was on the $5 bill?  He too waged war on the banks.

Here is the answer everyone has been looking for.  Change our money, get rid of the banks.  Pay back the banks in their worthless currency.  Try to learn the lessons taught to us from Jackson and Lincoln, BANKS ARE EVIL.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 14:39 | 638127 groucho_marxist
groucho_marxist's picture

there is a solution, just it isn't good for any business who wants to be bailed out (hence, not even getting talked about)

jubilee

problem solved.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 15:08 | 638176 Lonewar
Lonewar's picture

Hey everyone,

Anytime you are having a conversation with someone and the conversation turns to money or finance, please ask them this question,

 

"Why does a private bank control the printing of the U.S. Dollar?"

 

That is all that I would request of you.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 19:06 | 638482 Slewburger
Slewburger's picture

+1913

I like to refer to it as the Private Federal Reserve. That really gets their attention, or tell them the income tax was passed the same year.

Most people will avoid talking about this issue because they lack the understanding or they think it is a fringe movement to end the fed.

Nobody wants to be "that guy" although as things get more and more dire, the knowledge becomes more widely known.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 19:20 | 638504 cbxer55
cbxer55's picture

I junked ya. Your putting this same exact message, word-for-word, on every thread on the board.

 

The essence of JUNK.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 19:37 | 638522 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

That's not junk. He/She is trying to start a movement of awareness. I applaud. 

At some point we can all complain about the inequities about the system or actually begin to be a force of knowledge and perhaps even revolution. 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 22:27 | 638739 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

don't know about the other boards but it seems relevant to this one.  the activities of the tbtf and the treserve, combined with the abuse of the mortgage securitization game (from the mortgagor and investor standpoints) seem to beg for the actions outlined in the story, especially that recommended by the wife.  not paying your income tax is also seductive but the consequences are more dire and the individual's leverage less effective.  not paying the mortgage however.... big bird flying across the sky throwing shadow on our eyes.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 22:44 | 638765 UninterestedObserver
UninterestedObserver's picture

I junked you because you are a douchebag.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 22:55 | 638769 cbxer55
cbxer55's picture

I junked ya because I prefer asshole to douchebag. ;-)

What used to be accurate on this site, was replaced by a bunch of people who defined it because they really had no clue what it meant. A douchebag is a pretentious, sugar coated prick, but with emphasis on pretentious and sugar coated. It's not an adjective for an asshole, because assholes call other people douchebags, and assholes are more often than not proud of being assholes.

My wife tells me all the time that I am an asshole. :>)

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 02:51 | 638990 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

"Why does a private bank control the printing of the U.S. Dollar?"

 

The historical answer should be well known. It is said to be  bad when a public institution gets involved in private economy or worth own private assets. Please read (again) all the discussions about the topic. You dont need to move back long ago; the Europeans revived the issue when they implemented their ECB.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 14:51 | 638152 minus dog
minus dog's picture

At that age you don't need to plan that far ahead.  It is honestly not their problem

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 19:04 | 638480 CrackSmokeRepublican
CrackSmokeRepublican's picture

Brian and Isla are "Goyim".... The Mortgage Mess is Talmudic Jewish Usury...nothing more nor nothing less...

 

What did Ruth Madoff say about the Gentiles being responsible?

 

"a shander fer de Goyim"

 

-------------

The Story behind the Madoff Scandal

http://www.youtube.com/v/splajmPlpJk

Listen at 1:00

 

http://theinfounderground.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=8251

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 19:24 | 638508 chopper read
chopper read's picture

its a sick joke that the images of Lincoln and Jackson are used to promote the brand-name fiat.

 

anyway, "J. Crew Anarchist".  that is catchy.  

 

...as for our "keeping up with the Jones's" couple here:

Everybody else is doing it—so why don’t we?  

Is not this attitude exactly what got them into a borrowed house at the top of the market?

 

why did they not just pay cash for a house and not borrow anything?  

 

...because they could not afford the 'storefront' that they were presenting to their circle of friends.  

now our 'average' couple wants to blame the banks rather than themselves?

moral of the story for our children:

JUST BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE IS BORROWING MONEY TO SHOW OFF WITH A BIG HOUSE AND A FANCY CAR DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU SHOULD.

..."they love golf".  give me a fucking break.  I've been waiting my whole life to see these types of assholes get caught pretending to be bigshots.  they are the symbol of a generation that has lived and voted beyond not just their own means, but the means of their children.  

...and all they do is whine about how unfair it all is. 

The "Greatest Generation" gave birth to the biggest spoilt brats the world has ever known.  It is a pleasure watching it all crumble.  

these people are not victims, they are shallow-minded borrowers and consumers with no character. 

"they love golf".  how nice. 

 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 20:25 | 638589 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

Fools make a litany of mistakes in the pursuit of status.  They got that house in the gated community on the golf course that they so dearly wanted.  For a few years.  

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 22:33 | 638750 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

all perhaps true but not really the point of the story.  the point is that when even these paragons of rectitude abandon their trust in institutions and behavior norms to "screw the system" the system might actually get screwed, at least somewhat and for a while.  invest accordingly.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 22:40 | 638757 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

Well said and correct, but I understand where Chopper is coming from.  I struggled to stay focused on the point of the story rather than on what douches the people are.

Mon, 10/11/2010 - 17:21 | 641765 xanax
xanax's picture

 

Is anyone else concerned that the photo above is a stock photo? You can see it on another website too. What are the chances the story is fake?

 

 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 22:48 | 638770 UninterestedObserver
UninterestedObserver's picture

So what - if they went and bought an "average" house they would still be underwater because the machine Wall Street made in collusion with the govt to pump house prices. The only problem in this story is the fucking Fed and the banks that own them. EVERYONE outside the system is poorer because that is how the system was designed.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 00:05 | 638853 chopper read
chopper read's picture

true dat.  the joys of centralized money planning, fiat, and fractional reserve lending.

 

do not forget the "chicken in every pot" policies of Fannie and Freddie which created that extra boost of artificial demand so that these buffoons could really get an education on market dynamics.  

 

...still, i hate posers.  

 

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 10:44 | 639222 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

You will say this until it is you.

You will say it until you have to do a reverse mortgage on your paid off house to pay for a simple surgery or routine procedure; or when the gub'mint takes your IRA and 401K away from you "for your own safety".

The game is to make you feel good about being "responsible" and "prudent" while the banks and politicians are neither.

Then, one by one, they take away our savings, assets, the sweat of our brow and the blood of our children for their own avaricious lifestyles.

FUCKIT

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 11:19 | 639267 Bitch Tits
Bitch Tits's picture

If what you say is true, Chopper, I would think that society at large is getting mixed messages, wouldn't you agree?

We are told to strive, to make things happen for ourselves, to stretch our wings, reach for the impossible, have confidence in our own abilities, faith in the American system/way/dream.

Then we are chastised, by people like you, for daring to "over"reach. Who draws the line, how and when?

Many people were played in this economic disaster. These loans were handed out like free money, then the price of oil was manipulated in order to make the inevitable happen: the price of everything went up, the value of everything was questionable.

You are being played even now if you truly believe what you just wrote.

 

 

 

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 13:06 | 639432 chopper read
chopper read's picture

We are told to strive, to make things happen for ourselves, to stretch our wings, reach for the impossible, have confidence in our own abilities, faith in the American system/way/dream.

 

who told you this, Bitch Tits.  the world needs ditch diggers, too.  apparently, that is you.

 

no worries, i've got my guns. i've got my gold.  my friends are loading up, too.  come and get them.  ;)

Tue, 10/12/2010 - 12:05 | 643325 ATG
ATG's picture

Re Jackson and Lincoln $20 and $5 bills,

Salmon Chase, Treasury Secretary who coined the slogan of the Free Soil Party: Free soil, free labor, free men, had his visage on the $10,000 bill no longer in circulation.

Woodrow Wilson, who signed the Federal Reserve Act and IRS into law, had his mug on the $100,000 gold certificate used only by banks as thanks for campaigning against the money trust to get elected and fulfilling all its dreams when elected, like current DC pols.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salmon_P._Chase

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_denominations_of_United_States_currency

 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 14:32 | 638071 Bob
Sat, 10/09/2010 - 19:06 | 638486 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Downfall is an excellent movie, and this is one of the best parody uses of it yet. The ClimateGate parody was also well done.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 19:37 | 638524 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Just picked a place to jump back in. This is beautiful! I love it when ZH blows up! I am a web addict. My drug of choice is the attempt to understand what my (and your) tomorrow will be, today.

ZH is fucking spot the fuck on. I don't fall in love easy. But I do fucking love ZH. I fucking especially love that they fucking 'let' me express my fucking fetish for foisting my adoration of the word 'fucking' without banning my obsenity loving self.

I miss the fuck outa Marla.

I postulate that she decided to stop wasting her time with us bunch of fucks?

If you are a regular, then you know we didn't show her respect, my guess is that she considered respect as the minimiunm requirement for acess to her wonderful and generous  self.

We fucked up.

 

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 01:13 | 638832 i-dog
i-dog's picture

What you said (you DO see it!) ... x100!

My business has stalled because I spend too much time here just reading and gaining different insightful viewpoints to consider ... and laughing (my keyboard needs replacing because I have spit and snorted too much coffee into it)! But, hey, I can catch the business up later by being wiser from the experience here.

Many valuable contributors have left because Fight Club is getting a little rough, but some good scrappers have also joined since then. It's the way of all things.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 21:10 | 639949 harveywalbinger
harveywalbinger's picture

Like all other *presumably* super hot *presumably* women we get to dream about on the interwebs... in reality, Marla more likely resembles a morbidly obese disabled 50-something male former welder than a hot chick. 

Signed,

the voice of reason

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 15:15 | 638190 cmalbatros
cmalbatros's picture

No, me 1st. Like watching the movie "Airplane" with al those people queueing up to slap that girl .

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 15:41 | 638226 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

Eric "Empty Suit" Holder won't do it...
    He's AWOL...

 

            William K. Black will do it....
                  Pick him...

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 14:01 | 639514 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Too late for Dr Black, not that the PTB would let him anywhere near this mess.

Black would collapse the system at this point, being that its 100 percent fraudulent...

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 10:32 | 639198 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture

I for one would never ever, want the job of putting the greedy bastards in jail, or perhaps in front of a firing squad. Please do not pick me..

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 10:57 | 639229 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

I think I need to put together a web page on how to tie a good noose, strength of rope, knotting, etc.

I would say instructions for drawn and quartered too, but a shortage of horses on Wall Street.  I suppose four cars would do.

FUCKIT.

Did I say already?  I don't think I've said it enough.

FUCKIT.

Hey Wells Fargo:  FUCKIT

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 16:27 | 638315 Bob Sponge
Bob Sponge's picture

I wonder if Gen. Petraeus could run for president in 2012 as a strongman. Geopol recently posted about this possibility, but I haven't heard if Petraeus has any interest.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 19:52 | 638546 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

I would say that of course he is interested. Actually trying to 'manage' this nation though may be more daunting an assignment than he would dare to accept.

If he really took it on he likely understands that he would suffer the same limitations that he does now. The elite would provide him a dictate and if he strayed, he would go down Kennedy style. He knows that.

Collapse is the only remedy.

Sucks, but it's true.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 22:13 | 638718 Crab Cake
Crab Cake's picture

It's not sad. I'm looking forward to it, the collapse. When justice and righteousness have been relegated to illegality, the most just thing one can do is to break the law. This is the heart of what Mr. Lira is saying, I believe. What's more is the fact that the most American thing a person can do is tell 'the system' to fuck off. Our nation is based on the principal of fuck you, and only now are we collectively remembering. Fuck the Democrats and the Republicans. Fuck the banks, and their usury. Fuck the 'American empire', the NWO, and the status quo. Fuck the war on drugs. Fuck the scammers on Wall St..... Fuck it all. People here tend to make a mockery of 'Hope & Change'. Well fuck Obama, but hope and change are exactly what is needed, and the best way to get it is the big redux - collapse - revolution. Collapse of a rotten system, to make way for the new, is not sad, it is a joyous turning of the season, and I for one can't wait. Hell if I had less to lose, I'd be out there helping it along in ways I won't put into words. For now.... I'm just biding my time, and telling the system fuck you when and where I can.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 01:03 | 638885 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Well said.

Indeed, it's the spirit of your "the most American thing a person can do is tell 'the system' to fuck off" that is causing the oligarchs to perform a scorched-earth controlled demolition of the American Experiment, rather than simply walking away and turning their attention to a larger and more promising paddock of tax livestock waiting to be milked and shorn in Asia.

America was initially created by rebels who left England to do their own thing. It gained its independence from the British monarchy 140 years later because of the rebel spirit in the Founding Fathers (notwithstanding that -- or because -- the FF were slave-owning aristocrats). Another 100 years later, it prospered precisely because it accepted the rebels and dispossessed from all the nations of Europe, Asia and Latin America ... those who had the balls to pack up and move to escape tyranny (or poverty) and build their own tiny (or large) fiefdoms from the ground up. All they needed was freedom from tax slavery.

[history lesson on the oligarchs' successive failed and succussful attempts to re-capture the errant slaves deleted here for brevity]

Rebellion is concentrated in the American DNA. So that DNA concentration is to be destroyed if the oligarchs are to continue unchallenged elsewhere.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 10:59 | 639241 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Here here!

I'm with you, can't wait for it, just hope I have a good seat to watch it on T.V. and some popcorn.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 11:22 | 639273 Bitch Tits
Bitch Tits's picture

To paraphrase Brandeis; if you want respect for the law, make respectable laws.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 20:54 | 638623 doolittlegeorge
doolittlegeorge's picture

"he has no interest in running for office" and "that's why we love him."

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 10:40 | 639211 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

" Anyone who volunteers for the job should be avoided like the plague."

Absolutely.  And the same goes for anyone who wants to be president or legislator.  Their lust for the job disqualifies them.

Oh, and regarding people who really, really want to be cops....

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:46 | 637826 darkpool2
darkpool2's picture

The Pinochet version. Justice in the form of real free markets. ( oh, and if you need names for the `disappear`li-st, I can offer some)

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 12:47 | 637927 barkster
barkster's picture

Guillotines in the Capitol Rotunda!!

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 14:33 | 638077 Bob
Bob's picture

Have people changed so much since 1929--is there no longer any decency?

Jump, bitchezhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yge311sFhC8

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 22:44 | 638763 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

they didn't jump, mostly, because they were decent.  they jumped because they were ruined.  this time around, not so much.  yet.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 23:05 | 640161 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

They landed in the government safety net, food stamps for bankstas.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 15:49 | 638243 Attitude_Check
Attitude_Check's picture

Sadly we will only find justice "across the 5th domension"

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 16:35 | 638321 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

all the more reason to learn to build hyperspheres

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 22:46 | 638768 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

and surrey down to a stoned soul picnic.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:39 | 637769 Catullus
Catullus's picture

Agreed.  That's why it's not enough to just be pissed off.  It's important to explain to people why they should be pissed.  Understanding the why will help them identify the cranks and snake oil salesmen. 

I think Lira makes the great point: people who are the backbone of society, who are really trying to play be the rules, are starting to say "fuck'em".  This was the moral hazard that anyone in 2007 and 2008 screamed about when the first bailouts occurred.  It would necessarily degrade to this and it has. 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:19 | 637926 B9K9
B9K9's picture

Hasn't anyone here read Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle"? The process of setting up and destroying rubes & taking advantage of the clueless is an age old tradition. There are passages in the book that read identical to GL's portrayal of this couple ie the protagonists trying to do the 'right thing' and getting hosed by operators. (In fact, the 'victims' stand out in such stark relief to 'spotters' that they could have brands on their foreheads.) Sinclair thought he could gin up all sorts of sympathy for the downtrodden, but the book's true effect was the creation of the FDA so everyone could go back to eating steak with confidence.

Now, let us pull away and view the situation as illustrated in The Jungle from a wider macro perspective. What critical incipient trends were just beginning to take hold at the time of the book's publication (1906)? Large scale automobile manufacture anyone? And what about all the major oil discoveries yet to be made, both domestically (TX) and overseas? Think radical economic growth had anything to do with papering over these prior class conflicts?

Ok, fast forward to today. I keep trying to tell everyone that only fools & chronic complainers would be wasting their time @ ZH if there was any inkling of potential economic growth. That is, this shit would all be long forgotten if there was some new glorious path to riches. If we don't come up with something quick, and I believe the event horizon is now long past, then we not only have to deal with the current manifestation of the collapsed bubble as represented by housing/mortgage fraud, but the roll-back of the entire ponzi that began in 1694.

For 316 years there has always been an out by reflating bubbles to cover up the sins of fathers ad infinitum. First, wiping out the inhabitants of continents & re-populating them subject to charters, contracts, loans & investments (all tremendously inflationary). Secondly, leveraging the utilization of vast virgin resources via the slave trade. Then, for the grand finale, the whole enchilada was capped off by the kingpin, fossil fuels (first coal, then oil).

If this is really it, and I'm pretty sure it is, then it doesn't seem like there are a lot of options other than getting out now. Because, if you don't think the power-elite also "get it" and have contingency plans well in place, then you're just gonna be nothing more than a stepping stone on their path to survival.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:25 | 637985 bronzie
bronzie's picture

what, you don't think the latest version of a cell phone is enough to keep the world economy afloat!?

gotta run, have to trade my iphone for a droid ...

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:27 | 637989 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

A free copy of Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" for those who wish to read about their own misery, only from the safe distance of 100 years ago.

http://manybooks.net/titles/sinclairuetext94jungl10.html

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 15:17 | 638192 macholatte
macholatte's picture

Wow!

A terriffic link.

          Thanks!

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 10:39 | 639209 FatFingered
FatFingered's picture

I read all night.  I can not seem to be able to set it down.

 

thanks, CD

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 10:39 | 639210 FatFingered
FatFingered's picture

I read all night.  I can not seem to be able to set it down.


thanks, CD

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 14:11 | 638083 Landrew
Landrew's picture

Well said, B9K9 "OK, fast forward to today. I keep trying to tell everyone that only fools & chronic complainers would be wasting their time @ ZH if there was any inkling of potential economic growth. That is, this shit would all be long forgotten if there was some new glorious path to riches. " so true, if I had anything other than near at the money put options on banking sector, I would be here myself. I work in energy research ( which truth be told I would work for free) and now and then could treat equity markets like a physics experiment of mass and momentum, now there is zero volume killing the illusion of free markets. My avatar is a production graph of Cantarell oil field in Mexico showing a 8% yr/yr decline. Some people I think are starting to catch on to the declining production volumes of easy cheap crude oil. There is nothing easy or cheap about mining oil sands, mile deep ocean drilling, shale oil with a floor production profit cost of $80 a barrel. Many ask what would be the motivation for such a take-over, energy, population curve, global pollution or sheer greed? CD, has opened the door and now I want to know who is inside?

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 21:06 | 638637 trav7777
trav7777's picture

sheesh...if Cantarell only WERE -8% YoY. 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 22:52 | 638776 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

indeed.  that baby looks like double black diamond going to parachute territory.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 10:25 | 639185 AssFire
AssFire's picture

trav, You forgot to tell us we are idiots and vent about Peak oil.

just a reminder.

Mon, 10/11/2010 - 23:19 | 642408 chopper read
chopper read's picture

funny. 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 14:21 | 638101 hayleecomet
hayleecomet's picture

Right on, B9K9!  I love the way you write and always seek out your responses!

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 20:55 | 638626 doolittlegeorge
doolittlegeorge's picture

ooo.  a fan base.  cool.  i seek haley's comet every night too!

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 14:55 | 638157 minus dog
minus dog's picture

If there is a "path to riches", then of course people will ignore things.  Because they CAN ignore things.  If I don't need to worry about food on my plate and a roof over my head, it's a lot easier to deal with other assorted bullshit.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 18:54 | 638468 FatFingered
FatFingered's picture

It's called a people bubble.  Central banking created artificial incentives to exploit excessive resources.  It will be the last bubble.  1694 - ????   POP!

Tue, 10/12/2010 - 12:08 | 643346 ATG
ATG's picture

Or Boxer the draft horse in Animal Farm, worked near to death and sent to the knackers by the Pigs.

Very real today:

http://www.orwelltoday.com/horsedeath.shtml

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 15:52 | 638253 Island_Dweller
Island_Dweller's picture

"There is no subtler, or surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debase the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which only one man in a million is able to diagnose."

--John Maynard Keynes


Sat, 10/09/2010 - 17:56 | 638415 nmewn
nmewn's picture

The moral to the story is beware of Fabian's bearing gifts...LOL.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 21:50 | 638688 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

+1

Rhodes to Ruin

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 19:14 | 638497 You Cant Handle...
You Cant Handle the Truth's picture

An interesting bit to point out: that paragraph from Keynes's "The Economic Consequences of the Peace" begins with the words

"Lenin was certainly right There is no subtler . . . "

The preceding paragraph is also very enlightening, btw.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 17:56 | 638417 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

GL, I love the sentiment, but I can beat your expletive count and succinctly keep the theme of your post with the following song:

http://www.thesixtyone.com/artist/whiteyhouston/songs/#/artist/whiteyhouston/songs/

Just replace 'Liberty Mutual' with your choice of offending financial institution/insurance broker/political figure (no rhyming necessary) and presto! You have an appropriate outlet for expressing your entirely justified frustration and anger.

Regards

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 12:33 | 637901 Pondmaster
Pondmaster's picture

FWIW - Where I work ( and work hard ) two of the laziest guys there "showed me down" a few months ago . Sneeringly and arrogantly stating " Those who work hard get screwed by the company , but those that goldbrick and could careless about putting in 40 hrs work for 40 hrs pay get away with it everytime " . They want me to cave and say "fuck it" as well . To become just like them ,a work ethic makes them look bad. In their own consciouses. My thoughts are once you say "F... it" at work , its all over . "They" have won. But seeing the reality of there statement daily since I was confronted makes it very very difficult to continue . I am getting tired , just the the couple in the article above . This is the new America. Not one I am proud of . I don't blame the couple for (wife) for wanting to give up and be given over to the wrong attitude . Her husband is the last bastion in the family finances . Right or wrong morally is not the issue . When he gives in to the Fuck it its all over , they lost . America has lost . What we the majority stand for and beleive in in our country is lost . The criminals and cheaters have won . We have become one of them . Sorry for the ramble , but this article really hit home . I pray for more resolve to do the right next thing daily . For all of us         

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:09 | 637958 citizen2084
citizen2084's picture

Pond - You are spot on with this comment.  Your personal integrity is priceless and we should should think long and hard prior to giving it away.

ciao,

c2084

 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:34 | 638006 Reductio ad Absurdum
Reductio ad Absurdum's picture

This was the inevitable outcome of pluralistic democracy, since the lazy, immoral, or incompetent will always be in the vast majority. Glad to see more good people waking up to reality.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 16:56 | 638351 vanderrook
vanderrook's picture

Thank You Reductio.

Collectivism at it's finest. One has more than the other nine; they vote themselves the One's property- because it's all legal. It's "democratic."

This article is the most relevant I've seen in months. I'm glad to see that the author understands anarchy: that it isn't necessarily violent chaos.

Anarchy means only "without ruler", that's it.

Democracy (and all the other "isms") lead right here.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 01:08 | 638908 chopper read
chopper read's picture

no more republic protecting individuals, where one has to outright own land to vote.  this is MOB RULES democracy.  the inmates are running the asylum.  

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 16:58 | 638352 vanderrook
vanderrook's picture

Double post

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:44 | 638034 Dan The Man
Dan The Man's picture

I think the "Fuckit" attitude is absolutely necessary for revolution.  I'm sorry to have to say this...but a good work ethic and paying your taxes are values that are now just prolonging the agony.  Join the revolt or be run over by it.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:46 | 638041 Dan The Man
Dan The Man's picture

I think the "Fuckit" attitude is absolutely necessary for revolution.  I'm sorry to have to say this...but a good work ethic and paying your taxes are values that are now just prolonging the agony.  Join the revolt or be run over by it.  Real change in our financial structure will not happen without the big "FUCKIT".

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 18:45 | 638458 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Look to education as well.  Dropouts, cheaters, and apple polishers will always be with us but we have them now in abundance.  A student who does well is scorned in a lot of school environments.  The high school graduate of today "knows" less than an 8th grade student of the 1950s.  Students entering college have to have remedial courses to bring them up to speed.  That speed being 4 to 6 years behind the curriculum of just 50 to 75 years ago.  Makes this the future:  Idiocracy

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 14:18 | 638095 Psquared
Psquared's picture

clap, clap, clap ... I'd rather become bankrupt and live under a bridge than do the immoral and unethical thing. I don't care what everyone else is doing.

Once we start doing what is expedient instead of obeying the law, no matter how burdensome it might be, we have lost.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 15:30 | 638212 minus dog
minus dog's picture

So we're just to follow the law off of a cliff?

At some point you simply have to go your own way.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 15:55 | 638261 Milestones
Milestones's picture

This is a 50-50 deal. First paragraph 100% Second paragraph a 0%. The first should dictate the second; you are believing the law is to be obeyed. I would contend nearly all that passes as law is corupt and by the terms of the first must be set aside.

Milestones

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 15:57 | 638262 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

Well just remember the fact that business and banks all said "fuckit" long ago and you bailed them out so that they could continue their immoral and unethical actions.  I ask you this, would you not consider it immoral/unethical for them to charge them a late fee after approving the lowered payments? They flat out lied to the couple, then charge them extra for the privilege to be lied to.  Everyone in this country needs to stop paying their mortgage and taxes.  Our money has been handed out in bonuses and for unethical business practices, without our say so. 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 18:47 | 638461 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Exactly!  If those who already have most of it were not trying to take the rest of it we might not care so much.  But the bastards are now getting greedy; they want it ALL.

And that will just not do.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 22:29 | 638742 chopper read
chopper read's picture

lying to the police is never wrong. :)

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 02:15 | 638958 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Unless you are Martha Stewart. 

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 02:26 | 638967 ViewfromUnderth...
ViewfromUndertheBridge's picture

My sentiments exactly and I put them into action. I sold everything I owned and paid back all loans (with a little left over I gave to my kids) and what I kept I bought physical gold. I work, it all goes into physical.

So, the view from under the bridge ain't so bad...I am not quite there but compared to my former life a lot of people I knew would see it that way. I am fitter, I hardly drink, I buy food and pay rent and that's it. I think more and I am getting my own back by (silently) telling the whole fucking corrupt Powers That Be that me and my gold will be here after they have gone, be it 1,2 or 10 or 20 years....and I get to watch. I feel I have not cheated. To me, important.

Good luck

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 10:29 | 639190 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

+1

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 14:50 | 638149 Anonymouse
Anonymouse's picture

Very well said.  I know how you feel.  Hard as it is though, keep doing the right thing.  It is good for the country and good for you.  God sees what we do and what is in our hearts.  In the long run, that is what matters.

Funny that Peggy Noonan (elitist that she is) wrote today about essentially the same thing.  She was speaking about the corruption in Greece, how everyone becomes corrupt as they see it as the only way to keep up with the others that are cheating.  She sees it creeping into America.  We have to fight it every day.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 17:50 | 638408 RECISION
RECISION's picture

Well, that fight is lost...

A long time ago.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 11:29 | 639280 snowball777
snowball777's picture

WTF? Dipshits like Noonan have been enabling said corruption for decades. Get a clue.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 15:38 | 639614 Anonymouse
Anonymouse's picture

I thought I made it clear.  I'm not a fan of Peggy Noonan (she's a great writer but an elitist).  My point was even the elitists are seeing the change, not just moonbats like ourselves on ZH

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 17:26 | 638150 Anonymouse
Anonymouse's picture

.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 15:17 | 638194 Misstrial
Misstrial's picture

Love it Pond. Thanks for posting.

"We have become one of them."

Not me, though. I haven't been infected by blood-thirsty zombies:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Legend_%28film%29

~Misstrial

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 15:32 | 638215 Bolweevil
Bolweevil's picture

I too was asked to 'slow it down' because I was making the ones with seniority look bad. Whomever is responsible for our current demise, be it by design, coercion or ineptitude, is now indebted to society. Those who have played by the rules must now realize the rules have changed. The only guide is your personal moral compass. Keep your head on a swivel. Travel in groups.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 19:06 | 638485 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I spent 4 years in the Air Force, got out in 1973.  I would have stayed but the difference between "career airman" and "lifer" became obvious.  My love of what I was doing was getting in the way of my fellows and I could see a career of conflict coming my way.

Got the hell out.  Never looked back, and have never had a job that depended on signing the back of the check since then.  I've always signed the front of the check.

I'm now 62 and social security is pocket change for me.  Take it away and I could not care less.  I still have a career that I love doing and can't ever see stopping -- until you know when.

Mon, 10/11/2010 - 17:09 | 641723 akak
akak's picture

Rocky, I have a friend, a West Point graduate, whose experience in the army mirrored yours in the air force.  To say that he could not wait until his mandatory seven years were up would be an understatement.  He refuses to this day to talk about his time in the US Army, so disillusioned and embittered did his time with it make him. 

I only hope that your career (and I know what it is) remains as lucrative and as secure as your (or anyone's) Social (In)Security payments are not.

Tue, 10/12/2010 - 00:53 | 642539 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Thanks.   I have had some varied careers and started a number of businesses.  All of them small, one-man operations for the most part.   I sold the last one and am still getting monthly payments from that.  Turned a hobby into my current business but started building that 15 years ago.   Selling coins and stamps is a hoot.  I meet some interesting people to say the least.    I've taken nearly all the PM coins down from my website since I'm buying, not selling.  Still make a few deals but only when I can step up from silver to gold or finesse the deal somehow.  I don't ever see stopping that.  I applied for social security the second I was eligible but don't really care if the first check (deposit) ever shows up.  Don't care one way or the other.   Life's good.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 16:28 | 638314 hayleecomet
hayleecomet's picture

Don't get tired, Pondmaster.  You have dignity and integrity, and there are many of us in your situation.  There will be a time when people with your work ethic will be needed to rebuild this horror of a world.

I wish I could believe what I just stated.  However the future unfolds, dignity should always be held in the forefront.

 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 17:04 | 638361 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

+1

Pond, "Regroup!"

Other producers out there also seek mutual safety - proactive, synergistic protection. Give in to the chumps and they will still be prancing and laughing on your grave.

“Justice is conscience, not a personal conscience but the conscience of the whole of humanity. Those who clearly recognize the voice of their own conscience usually recognize also the voice of justice.”

 

      “Even the most rational approach to ethics is defenseless if there isn't the will to do what is right” 

 
Alexander Solzhenitsyn (Russian novelist, Nobel Prize for Literature (1970), b.1918)

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 21:33 | 638670 Pining for the ...
Pining for the Fjords's picture

Water, I completely agree but would add a twist.  Keep being productive, working hard, and being honest- but do it in a manner that DOES NOT SUPPORT THE CRIMINALS AT THE TOP!  What do I mean?  I have my normal job, but used to 1. do outside consulting for extra $, 2. spent a great deal of time investing in the stock market (and for a small fish I was pretty good- beat SP500 returns for 10 years running) and 3. purchased and refurbished rental properties, also on my time away outside the office.  In 2008 I saw what was going to happen to producers, so I deployed my energy and capital elsewhere. 

Sold all my stocks and bought gold (outside the rigged system, nobody elses liability) and some farmland, which I have been gardening the hell out of. No outside paycheck now, but I am working harder than ever and have a boatload of food stored away.  Much less cash for groceries, and far fewer taxes paid into a corrupt and dying system. I am just as hardworking and productive as before, but the products of my labor are going straight to my family, no middlemen. Let’s see them try to tax those potatoes between my plot and my dinner table.

My point?  Be as productive as possible, be honest and hardworking, but do so, to the greatest possible extent, outside a corrupted system designed to fleece you.  Honestly, my last year of going Galt was the best of my life- there is nothing like doing a hard days work and knowing that every last thing you produce goes straight to you and your family.  It was the first time in my life I have ever experienced this. 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 22:17 | 638726 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

I bow to you. The lovely withdrawal.

Folks, go out swinging.

"Many of you have already found out, and others will find out in the course of their lives, that truth eludes us if we do not concentrate our attention totally on it's pursuit. But even while it eludes us, the illusion of knowing it still lingers and leads to many misunderstandings. Also, truth seldom is pleasant; it is almost invariably bitter."

 

"Do not pursue what is illusory - property and position: all that is gained at the expense of your nerves decade after decade and can be confiscated in one fell night. Live with a steady superiority over life - don't be afraid of misfortune, and do not yearn after happiness; it is after all, all the same: the bitter doesn't last forever, and the sweet never fills the cup to overflowing."

 

"Own only what you can always carry with you: know languages, know countries, know people. Let your memory be your travel bag." 
 

"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward."

 

"This it is that we always pay dearly for chasing after what is cheap." 
 
— Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 22:35 | 638753 chopper read
chopper read's picture

you, sir, are my hero.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 15:14 | 639597 nuinut
nuinut's picture

 

+1 

The return of personal responsibility and integrity cannot be charted in financial terms.

This is TRUE wealth.

My vision of our post-consolidation future is overwhelmingly positive.

In real terms.

 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 17:03 | 638356 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Pondmaster, your moral compass is in fine order. However, I think that your course bearing needs to take into account the magnetic deviation of the "Financial" juggernaut. There be rocks and reefs ahead, matey, and Sirens to lure you. Keep a weather eye!

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 17:16 | 638374 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

rode by a piece of graffiti today:

"INTEGRITY WILL BE THE MOST PRIZED COMMODITY OF THE 21ST CENTURY."

...even if it's now the most undervalued.  stay long & strong PM.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 01:12 | 638911 scaleindependent
scaleindependent's picture

+1

 

Thank you for the reminder.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 02:17 | 638959 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

You apparently live in a better neighborhood than mine.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 14:10 | 638080 midtowng
midtowng's picture

I totally agree. Americans are more likely to surrender their liberties (what remains of them) in exchange for a military strongman who promises the moon, creates scapegoats, and has no respect for the Constitution. In the end, the strongman will always embrace the wealthy elite, just like the corrupt bastards before him.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 14:13 | 638089 Psquared
Psquared's picture

This is beginning to sound Biblical.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 19:08 | 638488 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Ye doth not thiketh for naught!

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 14:58 | 638159 macholatte
macholatte's picture

 

...even though mightily pissed off, would rather follow someone promising them justice (unpleasant consequences to follow later), than conduct a passive revolution.

 

The "passive revolution" should be first and, as we shall see on the first Tuesday of this November, it will be as limp as Alan Greenspan's dick.  Then you get to test your theory, and that of many here, and my bet is that the sheeple will go bah-bah-bah all the way back to their TV's and beer.

How many people here have sent money to Ran Paul (son of Ron), Sharon Angle (running against Reid) and John Dennis (running against Pelosi)? Less than 5% I'll wager. How many here tried to help Peter Schiff?

Revoluton? Not here at ZH and not here in Amerika.  Dream on.

 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 15:52 | 638244 tmosley
tmosley's picture

And how many millions or billions have the people here and the readers saved for themselves and denied to the banksters and government from what they have learned here?  Never underestimate the power of words.

The American Revolution was certainly never won by donations to members of Parliament.  It was, however, funded by money that was denied to the tax collectors.  We might not be tarring and feathering them yet, but that day isn't too far away.

ZH is the modern day equivalent of the pubs where the ideals of the Revolution spread, and where plans were made.  If the last revolution was born in a pub, the next one will be known to have been founded online.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 20:13 | 638566 DudleyDoRight
DudleyDoRight's picture

Mr. Lira has it absolutely right.  Brian and Lisa and many, many others will start repeating in a major, major way the refrain starting at 4:07: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzBA15lQFl8

Mon, 10/11/2010 - 13:17 | 641099 ertyqway
ertyqway's picture

We've finally reached the point where the low-impact option to get us out of this mess is a military coup.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 10:27 | 637713 DavidC
DavidC's picture

Thanks Tyler and Gonzalo.

For those who missed it or aren't aware of it, Gonzalo appeared on Max Keiser the other day.

http://maxkeiser.com/watch/the-keiser-report/keiser-report-83-05-october...

DavidC

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 10:50 | 637739 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Only a moron conspiracy theory believing dupe would ever imagine current events thru the lens of Cloward/Piven strategy? I mean come on, that idea is just batshit crazy right?

The far left would surely never aim to topple a society in order to perform a coup that would result in the establishment of a soviet style prison? Right?

I mean the far left just wouldn't do that, not in America, right?

It's not actually happening, right?

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:02 | 637758 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Nope, never happened in New York City, right Mayor Lindsay?

- Ned

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:14 | 637770 Wynn
Wynn's picture

What's worse; the far left or the far right? Both blame their problems on the other side, and both are inflexible to compromise, so both sides will pull farther and farther apart. Expect to see Hitler or Marx types crop up in the near future.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:37 | 637813 Suisse
Suisse's picture

You're an idiot.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:48 | 637819 Wynn
Wynn's picture

  ... on second thought

The far right is the most dangerous force in the world today, bar none.

 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 12:16 | 637869 Cow
Cow's picture

yea.  because everyone knows Hitler was far right.  right?  right?  WTF did "Nazi" stand for anyway?

D'oh!

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 15:29 | 638208 macholatte
macholatte's picture

Abe Lincoln was considered far right.

The Obama taught Alynski at Columbia and is considered an Alynski expert. His specialty was as a community organizer.

This is fact! Do an internet search and spend 20 minutes doing some research on the communist in the White House before shooting off your ignorant, partisan mouth.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 12:41 | 639386 Cow
Cow's picture

Do you understand sarcasm?  Try and keep up.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 17:31 | 638391 delacroix
delacroix's picture

ashkeNAZI

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 17:33 | 638394 delacroix
delacroix's picture

oops

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 12:19 | 637875 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Your really an idiot.

Have you heard ONE Far Right, any RIGHT individual talking about, belieiving in Euthansia?.

Actually condoning it, the need for it?...........

Well fool, you have a CZAR, a MAJOR player in the current admin who have trumpeted this view forever.

He is ONE, of their main cogs.

The Clyde & Piven mantra, and the Alinskityes are breeding in the Peoples House.

Their policies, and plans are right down this alley.........

Although the are fools, and think we are too, and that we are too stupid, illiterate to actually believe that they are serious.........

They are dead serious.

Ignore their kind at your peril.

What party is it that has allowed, 50 million babies to be murdered?.Not the RIGHT..........

You fall into the category of the Useful idiot.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 14:12 | 638087 granolageek
granolageek's picture

No, the far right prefers to drag people away in the middle of the night.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 15:59 | 638267 Attitude_Check
Attitude_Check's picture

Do not confuse the right (far or not) or left for that matter (far or not) with a totatitarian regime.  A totalitarian regime is neither right nor left -- it is just evil.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 19:12 | 638493 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I dunno.  I think the far left koo-aid has a tad bit more sugar in it.

All of it tasing like crap because they both use tainted water.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 21:12 | 638648 trav7777
trav7777's picture

We need to euthanize the banksters.

But, population control at this point is a must.

We have no choice but to transition from a growth-based model to a steady-state one.  A growing population against declining production means an increase in aggregate poverty.

There are continents which will need to rediscover how to feed themselves.  At some point, "land reform" will have to yield to hunger.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 12:59 | 637947 chunkylover42
chunkylover42's picture

defend that statement.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:13 | 637965 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

More people in the history of the earth have been killed in the name of Communism, Marxism, and Socialism, than under any other banner or ideology. Lump in the unborn and the number swells even further.

That is a fact, and its not even close. The murderous left wins over the murderous right by a ratio of ... what? at least 10 to 1. Maybe even more depending on how you count it.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:28 | 637992 bronzie
bronzie's picture

"More people in the history of the earth have been killed in the name of Communism, Marxism, and Socialism, than under any other banner or ideology"

even more than in the name of religion?

it's hard to separate the church from govt throughout history so maybe your statement is accurate

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 16:02 | 638272 Attitude_Check
Attitude_Check's picture

Comunism and Marxism IS A RELIGION.  That's why most communist countries outlaw any other form of religion - or keep it on a very tight leash.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 18:08 | 638426 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"even more than in the name of religion?"

Way more than religion...by far bronzie...it's not even close.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 14:27 | 638111 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Good propaganda. That is more because of one side bodycounting and the others being unable to do the same.

How many killed for capitalism? My guess is that the official body counts are zero.

Hint: sometimes, in order to build credibility, propaganda has to concede a kind of self admission. 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 17:56 | 638416 tmosley
tmosley's picture

This is among the dumbest things I have ever read.  Name one god damned massacre that was done in the name of capitalism.  It never happened.  It's like crooning about the countless millions killed in the name of pacifism.

Capitalism is a system that relies on money to distribute goods and services.  Socialism relies on force.  By definition, capitalism will not kill any mass of people.  At worst, you might have the occassional murder.  It is only under socialism that you get purges and holocausts.

Take your handwaving bullshit and get out.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 20:18 | 638578 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

What of wars for oil, not declared, but quietly fought to secure the resource in the name of bringing freedom or some such, to the indigenous populations there? Are these done in the name of capitalism, or not. I think technically they have all been done "in the name of capitalism."

Me, I'd like to see us try some capitalism. Might be a cool system.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 03:24 | 639003 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

That is exactly what I wrote.

Capitalism hands out a zero list.

Highly credible.

More a matter of recognition or more exactly, being forced to recognize one's crimes.

Jails are full of innocent people, it is well known. Too bad for them they do not have the power to enforce their point of view.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 16:11 | 638292 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

I am amazed that you took out GWB balls out of your mouth long enough to type this.  Ask the people of carpet bombed countries like Vietnam about their body counts from those far right capitalist people.  And as someone pointed out, religion is by far the biggest ideology that has killed more than any political skirmish, espcially when looked at in a percentage per earth's population. 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 18:06 | 638424 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You make a false assumption there.  You think that the United States was capitalist at the time that that war was going on.  It was not, and has not been since 1913.  Since the day that the Federal Reserve was founded, the United States has been a COMMUNIST nation.  The only thing seperating us from the Soviets was that we allowed the pretension of private property and individual rights, but the economy was 100% PLANNED.

It seems to me that the only wars that have ever been fought in the name of capitalism were Revolutions, where the only people killed by capitalists were aggressors coming into secceding terretories (ie the American Revolution and the Civil War).  In the case of the civil war, the link is more tenuous, as the South was slaveholding, and more strongly linked to the system of serfdom than capitalism.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 19:01 | 638475 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

Then you're stating there is no difference between the left nor the right (which I would have to agree with).

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