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Gonzalo Lira On The Coming Middle-Class Anarchy

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Submitted by Gonzalo Lira

The Coming Middle-Class Anarchy

True story: A retired couple I know, Brian and Ilsa, own a home in the Southwest. It’s a pretty house, right on the manicured golf course of their gated community (they’re crazy about golf).

The only problem is, they bought the house near the top of the market in 2005, and now find themselves underwater.
They’ve never missed a mortgage payment—Brian and Ilsa are the kind upright, not to say uptight 60-ish white semi-upper-middle-class couple who follow every rule, fill out every form, comply with every norm. In short, they are the backbone of America.
Even after the Global Financial Crisis had seriously hurt their retirement nest egg—and therefore their monthly income—and even fully aware that they would probably not live to see their house regain the value it has lost since they bought it, they kept up the mortgage payments. The idea of them strategically defaulting is as absurd as them sprouting wings.
When HAMP—the Home Affordable Modification Program—was unveiled, they applied, because they qualified: Every single one of the conditions applied to them, so there was no question that they would be approved—at least in theory.

Applying for HAMP was quite a struggle: Go here, go there, talk to this person, that person, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. “It’s like they didn’t want us to qualify,” Ilsa told me, as she recounted their mind-numbing travails.
It was a months-long struggle—but finally, they were approved for HAMP: Their mortgage period was extended, and the interest rate was lowered. Even though their home was still underwater, and even though they still owed the same principal to their bank, Brian and Ilsa were very happy: Their mortgage payments had gone down by 40%. This was equivalent to about 15% of their retirement income. So of course they were happy.
However, three months later, out of the blue, they got a letter from their bank, Wells Fargo: It said that, after further review, Brian and Ilsa had in fact not qualified for HAMP. Therefore, their mortgage would go back to the old rate. Not only that, they now owed the difference for the three months when they had paid the lowered mortgage—and to add insult to injury, they were assessed a “penalty for non-payment”.
Brian and Ilsa were furious—a fury which soon turned to dour depression: They tried contacting Wells Fargo, to straighten this out. Of course, they were given the run-around once again.
They kept insisting that they qualified—they qualified! But of course, that didn’t help at all—like a football, they were punted around the inner working of the Mortgage Mess, with no answers and no accountability.
Finally, exhausted, Brian and Ilsa sat down, looked at the last letter—which had no signature, and no contact name or number—and wondered what to do.
On television, the news was talking about “robo-signatures” and “foreclosure mills”, and rank illegalities—illegalities which it seemed everyone was getting away with. To top it off, foreclosures have been suspended by the largest of the banks for 90 days—which to Brian and Ilsa meant that people who weren’t paying their mortgages got to live rent free for another quarter, while they were being squeezed out of a stimulus program that had been designed—tailor made—precisely for them.
Brian and Ilsa are salt-of-the-earth people: They put four kids through college, they always paid their taxes. The last time Brian broke the law was in 1998: An illegal U-turn on a suburban street.
“We’ve done everything right, we’ve always paid on time, and this program is supposed to help us,” said Brian. “We follow the rules—but people who bought homes they couldn’t afford get to squat in those McMansions rent free. It would have been smarter if we’d been crooks.”
Now, up to this point, this is just another sob story of the Mortgage Mess—and as sob stories go, up to this point, it’s no big deal.
But here’s where the story gets ominous—here’s where the Jaws soundtrack kicks in:
Brian and Ilsa—the nice upper-middle-class retired couple, who always follow the rules, and never ever break the law—who don’t even cheat on their golf scores—even when they’re playing alone (“Because if you cheat at golf, you’re only cheating yourself”)—have decided to give their bank the middle finger.
They have essentially said, Fuckit.
They haven’t defaulted—not yet. They’re paying the lower mortgage rate. That they’re making payments is because of Brian: He is insisting that they pay something—Ilsa is of the opinion that they should forget about paying the mortgage at all.
“We follow the rules, and look where that’s gotten us?” she says, furious and depressed. “Nowhere. They run us around, like lab rats in a cage. This HAMP business was supposed to help us. I bet the bank went along with the program for three months, so that they could tell the government that they had complied—and when the government got off their backs, they turned around and raised the mortgage back up again!”
“And charged us a penalty,” Brian chimes in. The non-payment penalty was only $84—but it might as well been $84 million, for all the outrage they feel. “A penalty for non-payment!”
Nevertheless, Brian is insisting that they continue paying the mortgage—albeit the lower monthly payment—because he’s still under the atavistic sway of his law-abiding-ness.
But Ilsa is quietly, constantly insisting that they stop paying the mortgage altogether: “Everybody else is doing it—so why shouldn’t we?”
A terrible sentence, when a law-abiding citizen speaks it: Everybody else is doing it—so why don’t we?
I’m like Wayne Gretsky: I don’t concern myself with where the puck has been—I look for where the puck is going to be.
Right now, people are having a little hissy-fit over the robo-signing scandal, and the double-booking scandal (where the same mortgage was signed over to two different bonds), and the little fights between junior tranches and senior tranches and the servicer, in the MBS mess.
But none of that shit is important.
What’s really important is Brian and Ilsa: What’s really important is that law-abiding middle-class citizens are deciding that playing by the rules is nothing but a sucker’s game.
Just like the poker player who’s been fleeced by all the other players, and gets one mean attitude once he finally wakes up to the con? I’m betting that more and more of the solid American middle-class will begin saying what Brian and Ilsa said: Fuckit.
Fuck the rules. Fuck playing the game the banksters want you to play. Fuck being the good citizen. Fuck filling out every form, fuck paying every tax. Fuck the government, fuck the banks who own them. Fuck the free-loaders, living rent-free while we pay. Fuck the legal process, a game which only works if you’ve got the money to pay for the parasite lawyers. Fuck being a chump. Fuck being a stooge. Fuck trying to do the right thing—what good does that get you? What good is coming your way?
When the backbone of a country starts thinking that laws and rules are not worth following, it’s just a hop, skip and a jump to anarchy.
TV has given us the illusion that anarchy is people rioting in the streets, smashing car windows and looting every store in sight. But there’s also the polite, quiet, far deadlier anarchy of the core citizenry—the upright citizenry—throwing in the towel and deciding it’s just not worth it anymore.
If a big enough proportion of the populace—not even a majority, just a largish chunk—decides that it’s just not worth following the rules anymore, then that society’s days are numbered: Not even a police-state with an armed Marine at every corner with Shoot-to-Kill orders can stop such middle-class anarchy.
Brian and Ilsa are such anarchists—grey-haired, well-dressed, golf-loving, well-to-do, exceedingly polite anarchists: But anarchists nevertheless. They are not important, or powerful, or influential: They are average—that’s why they’re so deadly: Their numbers are millions. And they are slowly, painfully coming to the conclusion that it’s just not worth it anymore.
Once enough of these J. Crew Anarchists decide they no longer give a fuck, it’s over for America—because they are America.
Update I:
The Center for Public Integrity has a story, written by Michael Hudson this past August 6, that shines a light on the issue of perverse incentives of the HAMP program. These perverse incentives came to light because of a whistleblower, a former employee of Fannie Mae, filing a lawsuit. Fannie Mae was so keen on being perceived as a money-maker, after the Federal government bailout, that the aid programs passed by the Congress and signed by the President were turned into profit centers.
The former executive, Caroline Herron, recounts:

    “It appeared that Fannie Mae officers were focused on maximizing incentive payments available to Fannie Mae under various federal programs – even if this meant wasting taxpayer money and delaying the implementation of high-priority Treasury programs,” she claims in the lawsuit. 

    Herron alleges that Fannie Mae officials terminated her $200-an-hour consulting work in January because she raised questions about how it was administering the federal government’s push to help homeowners avoid foreclosure, known as the Home Affordable Modification Program, or HAMP.

Herron further alleged that “trial mods” were implemented regardless of eligibility of applicants, so that Fannie Mae would be eligible for Federal government bonuses.
Ms. Herron’s testimony in fact proves Ilsa’s suspicion that there was a scam at bottom. As Mr. Hudson writes, “Herron charges that Fannie Mae continued in headlong pursuit of ‘trial mods’ even though it knew that many had little chance of becoming permanent. [. . .] Fannie preferred doing trials, Herron alleges, because it was eligible to receive incentive payments from the Treasury Department.”
So in the pursuit of these perverse incentives, people who did not qualify for HAMP were enrolled in the program. And when their “trial mods” were up after 90 days, they would be notified that they didn’t qualify—regardless of whether they in fact did qualify, as in the case of Brian and Ilsa.
All so as to be perceived as a profitable operation, worth having been bailed out. All so as to be perceived as “returning America’s money”.
As of February, 2010, of the over one million homeowners’ mortgages under HAMP auspices, 83% were “trial mods”. One would assume that those 850,000 homeowners would also be assessed an $84 penalty for non-payment.
$84 times over 850,000? You do the math.


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Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:02 | 637761 Rodent Freikorps
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When Law is not applied equally, it is nothing more than a tool for oppression, and it is not immoral to ignore it.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:20 | 637787 Bob
Bob's picture

Simple truth. 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 12:10 | 637862 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture



Sat, 10/09/2010 - 12:51 | 637932 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

i think coolidge was simply aghast (as i am) at how little people paid attention to the bubble. Housing appreciating 20% per annum???

"HELLLOOOOO.....Reality's calling... It wants its Real Estate back"

Otherwise, i'm with you.

Yeah, "Fuckit" makes a nice change from the ubiquitous "Bitches" and it has a nice "The Deer Hunter" flava


Sat, 10/09/2010 - 16:30 | 638317 Milestones
Milestones's picture

Like the way you think!!  Milestones

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 17:13 | 638370 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Ms swinging the keyboard at metaphorical, hungry ghouls that wait for the sun to go down...

Continue to fight the good fight - righteous post!

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:40 | 638024 ConfederateH
ConfederateH's picture

When Law is not applied equally, it is nothing more than a tool for oppression, and it is not immoral to ignore it.


Yeah, doesn't progressive taxation suck?

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 16:56 | 638350 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

 "doesn't progressive taxation suck?" - ConfederateH

 The primary way progressive taxation sucks in the US is that it helps deceive the gullible into believing the taxes fall "disproportionately" on the rich.

Unconvinced that the wealthy rely on other income sources than those taxed progressively, that the wealthy can employ various tax havens and offsets, that Social Security is an income tax thrown into the general funds, that state and local taxes are regressive, or that the massive upward transfer of wealth indicates different, some still mistakenly lament the so-called plight of the wealthy.

 A flat tax that would remove income from from those needing it for food and shelter seems to be a questionable idea. At the other extreme of those having great discretionary income, based on their property rights or interest income protected by the state, it seems questionable not to tax them for society's costs in supporting such discretionary income privilege.

Aside from the extreme incomes, there probably exists a large middle ground of incomes where flat taxation might be fair, certainly more so than the present tax inequities.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 08:34 | 639110 Bob
Bob's picture


Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:06 | 637763 Eureka Springs
Eureka Springs's picture

Time to move into a place where someone wont be threatening to evict you... or living under the looming knowledge the threat can come any day and, btw, bulldoze that house down to the ground! Otherwise these people are far from having a spine... and are willing to negotiate with mafioso/yakuza terrorists, while paying them.


Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:19 | 637766 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Is there such thing as a golfer who does not cheat on his or her score if no one is looking?

Gonzalo, please send this to your friends. 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:51 | 637832 Gonzalo Lira
Gonzalo Lira's picture

I sent it to them—very amusing. 



Sat, 10/09/2010 - 15:13 | 638188 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

a default is NOT illegal. it is NOT anarchy. the mortgage contains provisions for a default. it is an anticipated event. the recourse is that the note holder (who ever that is) may foreclose and take the collateral (if they do it legally) or simply sue on the note. a strategic default is a simple business decision and has nothing to do with cheating. when gonzo writes about a default as if it is cheating, that is simply demonizing the defaulter over a simple business decision. a default has its risks and penalties. it is a financial and legal war. businesses do it all the time:



Sat, 10/09/2010 - 21:32 | 638669 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Like how the mortgage bankers association did on their HQ building?

Jon Stewart had a funny piece on it. 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 14:52 | 638153 AssFire
AssFire's picture

Less is always more

Oversupply and it fails

Haiku to comic

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 16:56 | 638349 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

banzai, have you seen this sculpture?

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 23:54 | 638843 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Cheers to the Italians for allowing a sculpture like that to be displayed in front of the Stock Exchange!  Tnx for this!

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 03:19 | 638998 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

Hey, wait a minute!  The finger is oriented away from the stock exchange, & towards US!

The arrogant bastards!


Sun, 10/10/2010 - 10:45 | 639223 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

exactly, i think that was the point of the piece.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 23:46 | 640218 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

All I could see is Lloyd Blankfein naked wrapped with barbwire to the middle finger right outside 85 Broad St.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:12 | 637771 Thunder Dome
Thunder Dome's picture

These people are doormats.  

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:14 | 637775 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Of course, it would just be a wild conspiracy theory if I said that the coming chaos was planned, not down to the small details because that wouldn't be necessary, but planned none the less in order to re-engineer social order since the financial system was doomed to failure anyway when it was implemented way back when.

Of course, this is just a silly conspiracy theory, right? Just another wacko on the web spouting crazy ideas with no proof. Right? I mean it's clear that all this "stuff" is happening because of a few independently motivated people helping themselves to the cookie jar, not something deeper or more insidious.


Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:19 | 637786 Landrew
Landrew's picture

What would be the first step in proving such theory?

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:59 | 637844 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Without being snarky in the least, why would it need to be "proved"?

Let's look at your question from a different point of view. Let's say I had irrefutable "proof" of this conspiracy. What would I do with that proof? How would I widely publish this proof? What "proof" could I use to prove my "proof" if those I prove are involved in a conspiracy deny they are part of a conspiracy?

Who do you think the public would believe, me and my "proof" or those who are in power and can cause the people the most harm mentally, physically and psychically? Would you really want to know that you father was molesting your sister? Would your mother really want to know this? So why would the average Joe want to see "proof" that their protector (the powers that be) was really trying to harm them?

Who do you think the public will choose to believe when they are faced with the idea that their government (or at least those in power who have control over most of the government) isn't trying to protect them but rather rape them? Don't you think that most people will conduct a quick calculation and decide they would rather stay with the devil they know rather than purposely and deliberately invite into their homes the devil they don't know, aka social chaos?

Let's say I somehow widely publish "proof" of this conspiracy. Is the assumption then that "we the people" will rise up and revolt? That some "authority" will remove those in power from the halls of power? What "authority" would that be? Wouldn't a conspiracy of this magnitude involve many different people in many different areas of influence world wide and not just in the USA?

Would the average Joe immediately march in the streets and demand those responsible step down? What if by exposing those in power, they decide the best course to follow is to start to screw with the economy and government even more so and in such a way as to cause chaos or disrupt communications? What's that you say, this only happens in banana republics? Would you like chocolate sauce with that banana republic you currently live within?

My point is that we accept coordinated "conspiracy" all the time when it is done by the "government" or some other "authority". And "we the people" want these conspiracies because they afford us at a minimum the illusion of comfort and control. People know somewhere in their hearts that they were lied to about 9/11 and Iraq and Afghanistan and the Ponzi and so on. Yet they do nothing. Nothing. Nothing. 

So when presented with "proof" that they are being royally screwed and their standard of living is being reduced down to third world territory over the next 10-20 years, will people take a chance of losing it all now by revolting, by putting themselves in harms way now or will they barter with the devil and hope they can somehow keep some of what they currently have without taking any chances?

When people look within for courage, the vast majority come up empty. The vast majority. Have you ever wondered why hundreds of thousands of Jews, Gypsies, Russians and other minorities in Germany and it's surrounding territories allowed themselves to be abused for years, leading up to their extermination? And yet the vast majority of them did nothing, nothing at all, to slow the process down, let alone stop it?

Answer that question and we will know if "proof" is what's really needed here. 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 12:27 | 637888 Wynn
Wynn's picture

CD, have you noticed a change in your beliefs since ZH came online? The daily onslaught of negative news is bound to have a cumulative effect. Personally, my visits here have been like a moth to flame, I just can't stop, and I'm not even a finance guy. I have tried to keep in mind that old advice, 'you become what you think about', thus I try not to dwell on all of the scary stuff happening in the world.

I just can't imagine this meltdown was 'planned', but even if it was, it is out of my control. I have one square foot I'm responsible for, that's all I can do.

Best of luck going forward


Sat, 10/09/2010 - 12:43 | 637915 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I was thinking this way well before I started visiting ZH. But I do get your point. Which is why most of my time is spent thinking of the spiritual realm. I make sure I don't always dwell in the sewer.

I just can't imagine this meltdown was 'planned'...

With the utmost respect and with no harm or insult intended, may I suggest that your defense is not based in reality, but within the safety a lack of imagination provides. The idea is so abhorrent to you that it's simply unimaginable. And even if it was, your defense to that idea is to narrow your boundaries even further, to the square foot you currently occupy.

To understand the sociopath's mind doesn't require that we act like one or become one, just that we understand and accept that not only is it possible but that it is an everyday occurrence. By finally accepting this reality, if done so by the general population, it will all end very quickly. The sociopath doesn't take power, we give the sociopath his or her power so we aren't forced to deal with him/her.

It is the ultimate hostage situation. We give up our power in exchange for the illusion of safety from the power the sociopath will wield. In affect, we are telling the sociopaths "Here, have my power. And in return, leave me alone and go kill some brown or black skinned person in the Middle East or South America or Africa."

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 12:58 | 637943 Blankman
Blankman's picture

Pertaining to your thoughts, for the beginner I typically recommend the movie "V" as reading is quickly becoming passe.  IF they comprehend "V" I recommend this site and a short read of "The Creature From Jekyll Island".  If they can make it through TCFJI and not have the typical this is all conspiracy nonsense thoughts.  They are on their way.      

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:22 | 637979 Wynn
Wynn's picture

damn dude, I think you read alot more into my words than was there.

"based on reality" And who's reality would that be, yours? Are you absolutely certain that your perspective is the correct one?

I rarely argue, because frankly, I don't give a fuck. You probably care more about "being right" than I do. The ego, and the mind, are both tricksters, I try to stay out of their webs of deceit as much as possible.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:34 | 637999 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

My apologies if I mistook you. And I was careful to declare that I am not fighting with you.

But it is you who used the term "I just can't imagine", not me. Using the word "imagine" is not by accident since it's definition is widely known and understood.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 14:14 | 638091 Wynn
Wynn's picture

I enjoy these types of conversations, but there is little point in dragging it on, especially at this type of venue. But, I'll add this:

No aplology is necessary, as no offense was taken. Conversation is imperfect, as words are often ambiguous, and thougts can become lost in translation. And, at my end, a lack of formal language training often leaves me at a disadvantage. I would be well advised to say nothing at all, but my fingers can be hard to stop at times.

Be well


Sat, 10/09/2010 - 18:17 | 638432 macholatte
macholatte's picture

nice discussion.

just a couple of quick comments:

consider that millions of people engage in "conspiracy" every year when they meet with their accountants and conspire to avoid taxes. The term "conspiracy theory" is for adolescents who know little about reality and have been quite successfully brain washed by the media and political pundits. The methodical killing of millions by Hitler WAS so hideous as to have been denied by the populace at that time and is now challenged as a "conspiracy theory".

a normal person goes through a very simple thought process when his belief system is challenged.






In this arena, people simply do not want to believe that our government has been seized by a power that means to do them harm. You see it every day when somebody just loses it and you sense that person's frustration. That is the point when they are on the cusp of moving from "Denial" to "Acceptance" and, as my own metamorphosis taught me, it is scary as hell.





Sat, 10/09/2010 - 12:48 | 637930 Saxxon
Saxxon's picture

Yes; but need to avoid hyperbole.  "When you can keep your head while all about you . . . are losing theirs and blaming it on you . . . "

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:44 | 638037 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

If by Rudyard Kipling

I love Kipling. He was inspired by God. Whatever good God you worship.

If you disagree, fuck you.


Sat, 10/09/2010 - 20:37 | 638601 chopper read
chopper read's picture

"Now remember, when things look bad and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean plumb, mad-dog mean. 'Cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live nor win. That's just the way it is."


- josey wales 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 21:38 | 638674 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

The Gods of the Copybook Headings 

AS I PASS through my incarnations in every age and race,
I make my proper prostrations to the Gods of the Market Place.
Peering through reverent fingers I watch them flourish and fall,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings, I notice, outlast them all.

We were living in trees when they met us. They showed us each in turn
That Water would certainly wet us, as Fire would certainly burn:
But we found them lacking in Uplift, Vision and Breadth of Mind,
So we left them to teach the Gorillas while we followed the March of Mankind.

We moved as the Spirit listed. They never altered their pace,
Being neither cloud nor wind-borne like the Gods of the Market Place,
But they always caught up with our progress, and presently word would come
That a tribe had been wiped off its icefield, or the lights had gone out in Rome.

With the Hopes that our World is built on they were utterly out of touch,
They denied that the Moon was Stilton; they denied she was even Dutch;
They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings;
So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.

When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know." 

On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "The Wages of Sin is Death." 

In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all, 
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul; 
But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy, 
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "If you don't work you die." 

Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew
And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true
That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.

As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began. 
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire, 
And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;

And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins, 
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn, 
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return! 

Rudyard Kipling 1919


Now that the Gods of the Marketplace have fallen the Gods of the Copybook Headings can't be far behind.  

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 21:41 | 638681 chopper read
chopper read's picture

+1. this is a classic.  

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 14:25 | 638107 Ricky Bobby
Ricky Bobby's picture

Hey Wynn, One square foot was all the space some poor souls had on the cattle car to TREBLINKA. I hope at the time they were having "postive" thoughts.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 20:56 | 638628 Wynn
Wynn's picture

my dear friend, as you sound confused, let me help you out

There is only one question in need of asking, and that question is; Who am I?

Who is that who ponders its own existence? To solve said riddle, you must first discard all that is false. Should you allow persistence to lead you, you will realize that everything you believe is in error, that you are a fool. Realize that the thought of an external God is false.

This is it, this is all ther is, and it is perfect.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 19:41 | 638449 tomdub_1024
tomdub_1024's picture

just read and re-read B9K9 and Mako's posts, for example, to begin understanding...its been a longtime coming and a longtime being played. Some sort of feudalism has been the "mean" (no pun intended, at first...) human organization scheme throughout history. This thingy we have been doing the last couple/few hundred years was just a wave function that was used to exploit, the wave function will return to the "mean"...The cycle will return to a rhyme of itself...

A while ago, I read an article on the CFR or IMF website, an essay about the rising of "neo-fuedalism"...they know what they want...always have.

This is why the middle-class is being slowly dissolved. We are not useful to the plan any longer.

Everything I was taught by my middle-class family that was taught to them by the system was a fiction. This realization started for me 11 years ago (actually the seeds were initially planted many years ago by my existentialism teacher in high school, who taught in a style similiar to Mako, CD and B9K9 in a revolving fashion).

All the dots, all the uneasy intuitions that something is amiss, all the research into all areas, have been connected here on ZH by Mako, CD and B9K9 and others too numerous to list.

Yesterday, Mako and B9's posts on a different thread lifted the biggest veils for me, and the reality re-smacked me upside the head, dots connected. A dark evening for me, I posted: "Its like being raped by the man your wife cheated on you with and left you for..."

Today, I am laughing at my own absurdity, that I "knew" or "felt" this most of my life, but for a while, couldn't let go of the fiction, the social conditioning of my family (though I was always one foot off the reservation, just couldn't go full native, though that other foot is moving closer and closer to the reservation's border).

Sorry for the ramble, the realizations are still being processed...


Sun, 10/10/2010 - 02:43 | 638986 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Nice post. 

Now the trouble can sometimes be in relating to those still in the Matrix (I know the movie analogy is tired, but it's late and it's a simple articulation). The strange stares, the shaking of the head, the "Debbie Downer" comments, etc. 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:43 | 638032 Landrew
Landrew's picture

Phew! Hold the debt for a moment. I was not suggesting your idea is not an accurate description of what has happened. I was in agreement , asking only as a topic of conformation what would be the leading argument in your hypothesis. Not to many years ago I would have thought any such topic a waste of time and completely illogical. Now, I have been searching for similar conformations of the 1% working as a group rather than self-interest. With a few of the ex-Obummer insiders having left and leaking the insider workings and private statements of this current administration we may get the proof of this conspiracy. For example, it has been said now that Obummer made a statement at a private fund raiser dinner suggesting health care single payer was a none starter even before inauguration in conflict with his hope and change public statements. What would be your smoking gun on this conspiracy along with which groups of people would be the most effective at it's success? Geo. Bush was elected twice, that should tell you something ha!

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 14:14 | 638084 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Actually I didn't think you were disagreeing with me. What I was trying to show is the need for "proof" in any form is the endless cycle that keeps so many people chasing their tails. It makes any possibility for resistance a non-starter because we're endlessly seeking proof before we really really REALLY get serious and resist.

I have a tendency to leave broad ideas below some one's comment. Often I'm simply using that person's comment as a spring board and I'm not really talking to that person, but to the entire ZH community. My apologies if that isn't clear. I've been here so long that I sometimes assume people know my style and method of madness. :>)  

What would be your smoking gun on this conspiracy along with which groups of people would be the most effective at it's success?

That's a real easy question to answer. 9/11 was the smoking gun of all smoking guns. Uncovering that stinking mess will help point us to the groups of people you're looking for. This is precisely why heaven and earth are being moved to keep that cesspool of an inside job buried in hell.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 16:49 | 638344 Milestones
Milestones's picture

Your last paragraph was a couter pin I was missing in the grand design. I still don't have an answer either; but it changes the view.   Milestones

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 15:07 | 638175 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Not another one,dude!!!!!!! it's the PLAN.

It's been GAME ON for years..........I am flabbergasted some of you do not get it. It's not like it's a major secret.(just how it would be brought about, every jot/tittle,sure,America in the 50's/60's, would have stopped it dead.)

Am I the only one here old enough to have seen the beginnings of this?,20-30+ yrs ago, there was a map drawn, separating the US into 10 Separate Regions, w/ 10 Separate Governors(Overseers).

Some think this is a NEW thing!!,hell I saw it then!.

Why was America's Mfg base sent overseas?,it was part of the PLAN.

Cheap labor? ass,just a part.

Do some checking on the U.N. and J D Rockelfeller, and the way to end all Wars.(sans 1948-9).

IF ALL nations were interdependent on each other( $$$$$$ wise), trade, then there would be no need for wars,as it would damage each countries economies.

Before that the Leauge of Nations.......Epic Fail.

Why do you think we want everyone in NATO?.

Anyone, and everyone, CONTROL.

It's all around you,wtfu.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:32 | 637807 Catullus
Catullus's picture

I'll object to this theory. 

If the "planners" of this magnificent scheme really have that much control, then why risk the current social order of potentially not being in control?  What would they have to gain by doing that?

If 1% of the population controls 60% of the wealth (or whatever number it is), then why would that 1% risk it? To get the additional 40%? That seems a little silly.

I'll go with the they're fucking it up, they know the current system is unsustainable, but they're rolling the dice one more time to keep it going.  What other solution is there? Just keep pressing hard 8s and 6s and hope you don't crap out. The alternative is for the top 1% to relinquish control. Might has well let the inevitability of the situation become apparent to people. And there's no doubt a level of positioning taking place right now, but no one has some deep insight into the future especially when we're talking about human behavior.

In short, planning the chaos is both illogical and non-solvent. 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 12:06 | 637853 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Seen through the eyes of the sociopath, my theory makes perfect sense. Something doesn't need to make sense or be logical or have a clearly defined end point in order for it to be implemented. Power and control is an end in and of itself and doesn't need any logic to sustain it.

The sociopath, when facing loss of power, will always choose to be the head of a twisted smoking wreckage before they will accept loss of power. King, no matter of what, is still better than not being king. And to 99.9% of the people of this world, this sounds so crazy, illogical and outrageous as to be summarily dismissed.

Sadly, it is our failure of imagination that consistenly leaves us defensless in the hands of the sociopath. 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 12:09 | 637856 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

"better to reign in hell than serve in heaven"

Quit projecting your decency onto others. It may not fit.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 12:16 | 637871 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Okay, busted. You are not a wolf, you're really riot dog from Greece, posting as a wolf. AwooAwooAwoooooooo! 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 12:53 | 637934 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

I've always been nuts. I run TOWARD the sound of the guns.

The Legendary Athens Greece Riot Dog

The only difference between the wolf and the wolfhound is that one preys on the herd, and one does not. Seems small, but it isn't. It is everything, in fact.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:15 | 637968 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Me too, I've actually done it a few times before my brain could stop me. I'm lucky they all worked out okay.

My husband and I use the Sheep, Wolves, and Sheep Dogs frame. And yes, the difference is not small. ZH is breeding and practice grounds for Sheep Dogs/Wolfhounds.  I love your forceful and consistent message. I salute you!

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:32 | 637998 Dismal Scientist
Dismal Scientist's picture

Is this why they call banksters 'Fat Cats' ?

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 14:08 | 638078 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture


Cat just eat your soul while you sleep.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 14:59 | 638161 Dismal Scientist
Dismal Scientist's picture

OK. No jokes allowed. Oh well.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 17:47 | 638407 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Don't be so dismal, I think the doggy joked back with you Marvin.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 13:04 | 639429 Dismal Scientist
Dismal Scientist's picture

As always, your lightest touch commands obedience, MsCreant. I will now return to perfecting my Space Modulator.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 15:48 | 638240 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

I've always had a facination with Irish Wolfhounds, so I'm biased. Good to meet you, Ms. Creant.

I wish you joy.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 02:41 | 638983 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

What's so facinating about them? Europe would never have reached any sort of population if it weren't for them. There literally was 20 wolves for every human there and people were their main pray for a century. But mixing wolfhounds and humans together broke up wolves abitlity to defend against them.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:25 | 637938 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Nah, CD ... you're fuckin crazy! It was just caused by some well-meaning Harvard, Princeton and Yale PhD's who mostly got it right but did make a tiny mistake or two here and there. No biggie.

How could they possibly have known that a $200-400 billion dollar a year deficit -- every year for 30 years and recently increasing to over $1,000 billion a year under Bush and Obama -- would require any sort of change in policy other than increasing the spending to pay for more wars and more social benefits? Did you expect them to be prescient or something?

Anyway, they couldn't possibly be planning to pull the system down and impose martial law over a country of debt slaves ... because they are too busy building FEMA camps, installing cameras and microphones on every lampost, arming the police and national guard with x-ray vans, riot control equipment and "don't chat, just taser" instructions, plus building up a 1-million-strong surveilance infrastructure, to catch a couple of evil terrorists who may be planning on sneaking in from the hills of central asia! How could they possibly manage both activities at once? ... there are only so many hours in a day!

And as for all that nonsense about sterile genetically modified food crops that are resistant to aluminium from chemtrails and are only good for one harvest, while heritage crops are dying from chemtrail sprays and GOM polution, thereby creating the potential hazard of no food at all for man or beast if anything goes wrong with Monsanto's seed deliveries one year, is just that ... abject nonsense! Couldn't possibly happen. No hedge fund would ever go long on that one coming about!

Better get yer tin foil hat ready. Just sayin'.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:39 | 638022 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture


Everyone get the hell out of the way. The i-dog is i-rolling. :>)

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 14:33 | 638118 Freebird
Freebird's picture

Is this the Chumba reincarnated?

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 14:35 | 638119 Freebird
Freebird's picture

Is this the Chumba reincarnated?

Well is it....

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 15:10 | 638181 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I've actually been conversing with Chumba via e-mail over the past few months. And while s/he (I really don't know which it is though I think I know) hasn't told me if s/he has taken on another ZH ID and Avatar, I sometimes wonder if s/he has.

However, Chumba was one of the original thoughtful rebels (despite the occasional manic outbursts in the Israel threads) on a web site full of rebels. When Chumba went on a roll, nearly everyone knew they were in class. I have begun to notice that many here on ZH have slowly but surely been catching up to or with the early ZH pioneers. Maybe that's what's really going on here.

Is i-dog the son of Chumba? In some ways aren't we all. :>) 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 16:40 | 638329 Bob
Bob's picture

Funny, CD!  I'm glad to hear that (as far as one can tell via email) Chumba is not residing at Gitmo.  That was one radical cat whom I was suprised I came to like. 

I am not Chumbawamba [slow tear rolling down cheek] .

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 21:23 | 638658 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

Chumba was his own, unique.

and sorely missed.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 03:38 | 639011 Bay Trader
Bay Trader's picture


I have been reading ZH since February 09 and while the Tylers are the reason I read the stories, CheekyBastard, Chumba, Mako, B9K9, and yourself are the reasons I read the comments. Your piece on the collective mindset of Americans was brilliant and forwarded to everyone I knew who would read it.

Glad to hear that Chumba is still alive and well. I was beginning to worry that he went AWOL or was paid a visit by the men in black.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 20:51 | 638621 chopper read
chopper read's picture


Sat, 10/09/2010 - 21:22 | 638657 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture


serious swoon i-dog.

And as for all that nonsense about sterile genetically modified food crops that are resistant to aluminium from chemtrails and are only good for one harvest, while heritage crops are dying from chemtrail sprays and GOM polution, thereby creating the potential hazard of no food at all for man or beast if anything goes wrong with Monsanto's seed deliveries one year, is just that ... abject nonsense! Couldn't possibly happen. No hedge fund would ever go long on that one coming about!

and THIS paragraph deserves repeating. . .all the guns 'n' golds 'n' "free" houses won't mean a thing if you're a slave to your next meal. . . or being slowly poisoned by simply breathing, or when they up the biowarfare.

respect i-dog!


Sat, 10/09/2010 - 14:34 | 638117 UGrev
UGrev's picture

Conspiracy, controlled down to minutiae, always fails because it's too easy to connect the dots. I agree with your light hearted post, however sarcastic it may be. 

It's so much more devious to conspire to cause chaos, plant the seed and let chaos grow on its own. It's also much harder to trace back to the source or sources. 

In that case, it comes down to school rules. Everyone in the classroom gets punished if no one fesses up.

In 1932, they jumped. In 2011, they'll need wings. 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:15 | 637776 Heroic Couplet
Heroic Couplet's picture

If they voted for George W Bush, they have nothing to complain about. Take complaints to the Republicans in your state. Demand to know where the Bush tax cuts have created jobs.

All people living in houses underwater should be declared employees of the banks and custodians of the property they're living in. Let the banks pay them salaries to care for the property. The more the property cost, the more the banks have to pay for custodial services.

Let the custodians have a hand in correcting all the faulty paperwork, say, ten per year, because ten per year is way more than the banks have managed in the past decade. When the banks go bankrupt and collapse, then the custodians of the property collect unemployment indefinitely. The more bankers and FIRE employees  who end up on food stamps, the better. They're much easier to maintain that way.


Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:26 | 637793 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Tax cuts are to blame for the massive generational theft by the Ivy League?


Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:49 | 637829 Heroic Couplet
Heroic Couplet's picture

Yep. My solution has at least two advantages: takes banks, the FIRE economy, and homeowners upside down on their mortgages out of the government space, which no Republican could ever object to. Solves the unemployment problem. If a house "cost" $400K originally and the banks have to pay 10% custodial fees, $40K per year to the custodians is nice pocket change. We'll see the banks suddenly decide the real value of the house is only, say $90. I've said all along the value of your house is the wholesale cost of the plywood and nails in India and China, and nothing more. Globalization.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 14:33 | 638116 Ricky Bobby
Ricky Bobby's picture

What is with all the fucked schemes. We have a model that works and hasn't been tried in 100 years. Its called a Free Market.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 15:47 | 638238 Heroic Couplet
Heroic Couplet's picture

Free Market in the case of jobs sent offshore (and lied about) and the FIRE economy, banking and housing has a synonym, a set of words that means exactly the same:  Intentional criminal intent.

Show me a Free Market where intentional criminal intent has been removed. I'll show you a Fair Market. As in, who in the h3ll would want to send jobs from a representative republic (the USA) to China (a dictatorship)?

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 20:59 | 638630 chopper read
chopper read's picture

jobs sent offshore


if Americans would work for what they are worth (not much), the jobs would still be here.  its true!


manufacturing jobs are not a 'right', they're earned.  create your own job.  ask your neighbor if you can pick up trash around his house for a few bucks.  call yourself an entrepreneur! 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 22:22 | 638425 Landrew
Landrew's picture

Free Markets! Free Markets? You are kidding right? Even free market people who teach free market don't believe WE have free markets! Bank bailouts are free market? GM /Chrysler bailout? AIG bailout? We don't have anything like a free market otherwise we would be on the round to a healing economy although at a much lower standard of living. Free market, I laughed then puked! Really, I am horrified thinking anyone would even utter that out loud without fear of being called ignorant or an employee of the U.S. treasury ha!

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:15 | 637777 AnonymousMonetarist
AnonymousMonetarist's picture

Repost  December 14,2009

American Schemer: Synarchy for all

'Without the slightest artificiality of face, without the faintest counterfeit of voice,and without more than a slight exaggeration of natural manner, he could become the typical American schemer'.
- Famous American Actors of To-day (1896)

'Populism espouses government by the people as a whole (that is to say, the masses). This is in contrast to elitism, aristocracy, synarchy or plutocracy, each of which is an ideology that espouse government by a small, privileged group above the masses.'

'The story that democracy is not to last for ever is as true, and as little to the point, as the assertion that human reason is not to last for ever, since only democracy provides an institutional framework that permits reform without violence, and so the use of reason in political matters.'
-Karl R. Popper

The butterfly wings of the banks, too bankrupt to go broke, need imaginary pricing for their imaginary collateral -tis too humptied to get dumptied.

The state, too captured to go real, pressures the squints to 'Less Nessman' the bad speculative bets.

The bets, whilst still on the books, are an option ... the regulatory put socializing the downside, the upside beholden only to imagination.

Such an imagining is the MSR(mortgage servicing rights) bucketshop, where there is no active trading and hence the value in the bucket depends largely on the expected life of the mortgage.

Extend and pretend is the proposed means to mend. Pay no attention to the marks behind the curtain. What ever the banks want to show they show.

The Nancy Capitalists proclaim its' all good, and we all should support that which brings recovery home.

But a storm is being created.

What they fail to realize is that they are corrupting, not supporting the American Dream; through their desire to be prophets they have ceased to be makers of their own fate.

The American Dream is becoming the American Scheme as moral hazard is writ large.

With Mr. & Mrs. America feeling no compunction to walk away from their home if their neighbor does it, with the neverending Federales policy of exalting drunks and punishing the sober, with the phrase 'the whole thing's a Ponzi' being uttered by even the most ardent of conservatives at family functions - life is imitating the arts of the elites.

People are losing faith.

Lies have consequences.

Trust can be gained once and lost once. Once lost, it's lost forever.

The American Dream of working hard, making it, and making a better life for your children is being replaced by synarchy for all

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 12:14 | 637866 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

What they fail to realize is that they are corrupting, not supporting the American Dream; through their desire to be prophets they have ceased to be makers of their own fate.

So nice to have you back AM.

I'd be willing to bet large sums of my precious metals that there has never been a group in power who, while driving their country/Empire into the bowels of hell, didn't delude themselves into believing they were doing "good" for those very same soon to be hell dwellers.

Of course, it doesn't hurt that their actions are also going to help them make it to heaven....or at least a bought and paid for beach in some South American banana republic, should things get out of hand.

You know, contingencies. Just in know.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 21:07 | 638639 chopper read
chopper read's picture

+1, great post

Nancy Capitalists


more like "Nanny Capitalists".  everyone gets to play 'businessperson' in the sandbox of an expanding money supply, then velocity contracts and its off to bed without any supper.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:16 | 637778 Shameful
Shameful's picture

We need a little anarchy, the state is killing us.  Everyone who is paying attention would know the rules only apply to us serfs.  The open criminality of our "leaders" should prove that.  We have a tax cheat as the head tax man for Christ's sake!  As this goes on it's going to be us or the State, only one group is going to make it into any kind of good future.  Anarchy could and indeed should lead to more liberty, read Rothbard.  It's not about chaos it's about choice and not having some bureaucrat standing on your neck.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:22 | 637789 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Well said.  Ask the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto whether it's better to fight early, or when it's already too late.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:27 | 637792 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

It's gonna be very hard to ask them.

But it appears the banks are adopting storm trooper foreclosure tactics.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 12:41 | 637911 His Dudeness
His Dudeness's picture

"It's gonna be very hard to ask them."

Even harder to understand their response.

Some questions just don't need to be asked. Like the time I'm at our local Walgreens at 1:00am on a Sunday night because our dog just returned from a romp around the neighborhood where she was smart enough to encounter the neighborhood skunk. (And you 'tomato juice bath' remedy thinking pukes out there... shut up and keep reading!) We had luckily came across this recipe on the 'net: 1 quart hydrogen peroxide, 1/4 cup dish soap, 2 TBsp baking soda ... combine these and lather up the dog. Additionally, they recommended a mild femine douche (I got 2) for if that mix got into the dog's eyes. So add a pair of rubber dishwashing gloves to protect my hands, and you now know what I had just plunked onto that Walgreen's counter.... And the clerk asked: "Will there be anything else?"

The guy obviously didn't know that when I throw a party... I throw a party right!!!

BTW, the mix worked like a charm!! The dog was in the house 35 minutes after her encounter without a trace of skunk smell! And my cherry for never having used a douche was broken! Priceless...

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:44 | 638031 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

And my cherry for never having used a douche was broken! Priceless...

Thus the reason I'll never own a dog. I don't ever wish to use a douche. 

Unless (or course) it's to clean up after Bernanke and Company are done with my rear end. :>)

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 12:23 | 637881 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Well said.  Ask the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto whether it's better to fight early, or when it's already too late.

When courage is lacking, one can always find the courage to conclude it's never too late. When finally proven otherwise, usually one doesn't stew long in one's cowardice for the end often comes relatively quickly. After reading many books on the WW2 Nazi (as well as Russian) concentration camps, the most popular attitude to take was for each and every person to believe that they will somehow survive.

Thus it was only when they were eventually marched off to the ovens or the firing squads were they finally forced to face their own cowardice. Even then, the ever accommodating Nazi's still helpfully enabled their denial by planting flowers and playing music for those who were walking those last few hundreds yards.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:55 | 637837 bronzie
bronzie's picture

"We have a tax cheat as the head tax man"

along with an overweight surgeon general and a president who smokes ciggarettes when off camera

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 12:07 | 637854 jesus_quintana
jesus_quintana's picture

Barry O smokes? I didn't realise that there was something I could actually like about him.

Every day's a school day.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 14:11 | 638082 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

It would be admirable if he did it and just said, "Fuckit" and let you see.  Instead he hides it while his wife, the Patrick Ewing lookalike, goes around scolding america about whatever occurs to her at the moment.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:48 | 638048 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

"We have a tax cheat as the head tax man"

I just went through an IRS audit. When it came time for them to hand down their written decision, I noticed that they had tacked on penalties and interest.

So (of course) I asked them, in writing, if I could please get the "Timmy" treatment of waved penalty and interest. That didn't go over very well. Interestingly the "No" response was accompanied by an amended decision that tacked on even more charges. Oh well, time to pay some attorney fees.

No sense of humor in the IRS. :>)

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 15:23 | 638203 DosZap
DosZap's picture


And there's another agency that needs to GO AWAY.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 16:05 | 638276 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I have often asked the various beetles, flies, spiders and the occasional cockroaches who visit my humble abode to go away. They don't respond well to my requests. I have ascertained this by the fact that they don't voluntarily leave. Sad really because I always ask nicely.

So now I must exterminate them......with extreme prejudice I might add. Though I've been told by a few close friends that this would simply be piling on and that extermination alone is sufficient to reach my goals. But I want those little bastards to suffer, suffer I tell you.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 18:41 | 638452 Landrew
Landrew's picture

CD, sorry I had to run to work for a min. I have a few more questions so the logic side of me can move forward on this conspiracy. How many people would this take and what connections would they have to have in order to accomplish these tasks? How many events would it take in order to create even more control through dis-order and up-heavel? I know in my own dealings with extremely complex problems there seems to be a balance needed in order to solve for working solution. To many creates solution by committee (doomed from the start) and to few sometimes misses both ends of the spectrum. I am very interested in this and found several topics discussing The Octopus was first tentatively identified by a freelance investigative reporter named Danny Casolaro, who believed it linked such conspiracies as Iran Contra, BCCI, Inslaw to such government agencies as the CIA,FBI and the NSA. Of course he ended up in a freaky suicide? 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 19:58 | 638538 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

The more I studied this the more I realize that I had to learn a new language to understand. Or maybe I should say a new perspective. If I may explain.

If I live in a two dimensional world of length and width (ignore that there must be some height and just go with the flow here) then it would be nearly impossible for me to comprehend a three dimensional world that included height. I would need to gain that perspective before much in that world would make sense.

To give a real world example from my long ago high school education, I really struggled with plain (or two dimensional) geometry in high school and within 4 or 5 weeks it was clear I was going to fail. This didn't make any sense because I was very good with math. But the math just didn't make any sense.

The teacher also taught the solid (three dimensional) geometry class for the next grade and one day I asked him if I could sit in on that class instead of going to study hall. Within 30 minutes it all made sense to me. Suddenly not only did I grasp my own 2 D class but I was actively participating in the 3 D class as if I had always been there. I convinced the school to let me take both classes at the same time and I passed both with A's.

My point is that to understand what's going on we must see the big picture from a different perspective than most currently posses. And people are deliberately kept within the 2 D Matrix to blind them of what's going on in the 3D and 4 D worlds that are all around them but unseen. This is why when talking to people about the Ponzi, they simply don't see most of what is clear to you and I. Everything they deal with on a day to day basis shields them from the other realities.

There are 5 basic levels of control in this world. One will only see the levels they are trained and tuned to see. For most, they see only the first few levels, that of "government" and of "real or overt politics". The motor vehicle department, the IRS, the Department of Transportation etc is an example of "government". The House and Senate, the President, the state and country politicians, the school board are an example of "real or overt politics".

But there is a second level of politics, the 3rd level of control, which I call "covert politics" or "shadow politics" where the CIA/NSA and other countries intelligence agencies play. It's where strategic alliances are made that can never be publicly acknowledged, where black budgets are authorized without the vote of Congress and funded using drugs and weapons sales or financial fraud. In fact, much of the financial fraud of the past 20-30 years, the fraud that's coming apart at the seams, was the result of the "shadow/covert politics" level of control and the next one above that.

The next two levels are so far beyond the perception of the average and not so average Joe that they are dismissed as crazy or wacko or conspiracy. They are considered beyond fringe by the control systems below and are not ever acknowledged as real by the MSM or the first 2 levels except as out right denials or in a dismissive manner.

The 4th level is that of the "Brotherhoods" or "secret organizations" or the popular "Illuminati", though these terms are such hot button today that I don't like using them other than as an example. Without going into them much, because one must do their own research into the existence of them if their existence is to be believed, we hear about them all the time when we hear about "Skull and Bones" and "Masons" and so on.

What's not discussed is that these publicly outed "Brotherhoods" are not the source of the real power and have been outed primarily to take people off the scent of the center. In fact, these outed Brotherhoods are now often used to produce the stooges of the overt political world. Even one loves to be "in the know" including the stooges. They are also used as recruitment for the power level of the Brotherhoods, but not exclusively. This is where you will find most of the conspiracy you're looking for.

The final level is so beyond the comprehension of the average person that if I were to begin to discuss it here on an open forum, I would lose any credibility I might have at the moment. The layers below have done such a complete job of obscuring its very existence that anyone talking about it is immediately considered crazy by those still trapped in the 1st and 2nd and even 3rd levels. It's like taking someone from basic math to quantum physics. It's not a matter of difficulty in understanding as it is simple believability. To those who lived in caves, the Boeing 747 is magic.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 21:25 | 638661 chopper read
chopper read's picture

But there is a second level of politics, the 3rd level of control, which I call "covert politics" or "shadow politics" where the CIA/NSA and other countries intelligence agencies play. It's where strategic alliances are made that can never be publicly acknowledged, where black budgets are authorized without the vote of Congress and funded using drugs and weapons sales or financial fraud. In fact, much of the financial fraud of the past 20-30 years, the fraud that's coming apart at the seams, was the result of the "shadow/covert politics" level of control and the next one above that.


spot on.  CD, i would appreciate it if you would continue on with your theories since you GAINED credibility with me in the aforementioned prose.  

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 21:40 | 638675 Cistercian
Cistercian's picture

 That is because so much energy is expended denying the existence of the unbelievable level you refer to.It makes people afraid, and they self sensor from childhood.And the culture reinforces it.

  Few perceive it, which is a triumph for it.But some of us discern and observe it's operation.

   For it, things are very quickly falling into place.....which is bad.

 Note how you say speaking of it would ruin your that is control.



Sun, 10/10/2010 - 04:53 | 639029 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Note how you say speaking of it would ruin your that is control.

The ultimate control is the control that compels self censorship. However.

A number of years ago I did not self censor. My attitude was that if the average person couldn't handle it, too bad. But after a while I realized that I was only hurting myself and the person I was talking to if my intention really was to educate and inform. So many people use their higher awareness as a weapon to bludgeon the ignorant in order to feel superior or to release their anger rather than to inform.

It's a way of releasing their anger against the hidden machine and it's released upon those most familiar and available victims standing on every corner in America. When one is impotent against the real source of their distress, one will look for the good china to break. I realized I was somewhat guilty of this myself. Another ugly realization to swallow.

Our biggest mistake is forgetting that our knowledge base has been formed over weeks, months, years or in some cases decades. To expect someone to deal with all their cognitive dissonaces in a few hours of briefing from me is the ultimate form of arrogance on my part. How many times do I pull away from the open fire hydrant of information and knowledge in order to process and assimilate? How many times do the pieces come together ONLY after repeated immersions? And yet I expect others to absorb all I know in one or two sittings? Shame on me.

Seeing it from this point of view (and it's a very valid point of view because I self censor in order to pass on information, not deny information) I no longer ever have a problem with it as long as my motives are clearly understood by myself.

The slow and steady tortoise will eventually win the long race.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 13:17 | 639448 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

They have their Eyes Wide Shut.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 17:46 | 639822 chopper read
chopper read's picture

CD, i, too, am guilty of this.  my intention is to perpetuate a 'dripping' process, but sometimes my dripping turns into a sledgehammer for all of the reasons you have highlighted.  just know you practicing such personal restraint inspires me to do the same, although it does not come naturally.  either way, many, many measures can be taken to avoid being dragged down with the herd. 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 22:43 | 638761 Landrew
Landrew's picture

Thanks CD, I work in physics so it wasn't hard to make that leap of connection to your theories. I have understood most of what you stated since the sixties ( open minds that communicate reveal everything). I understood early on when politicians, media, anyone in authority wanted you to look where they pointed you should look the other way to see what they were really doing. Distraction is a major tool of these groups. Funny you mention the Masons, my grandfather was a mason ( love the ritual). The world to me has always felt as though a war between extremely powerful groups has been waged not unlike that of any comic book and we are merely accidentals in the game. Working in dark energy will do that to you ha!

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 03:25 | 639006 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Thanks for the post, CD. As always, good stuff. 

Just as a thought experiment, I could imagine the 5th level actually requiring very little direct 'effort'. Once the money systems (fiat currency, fractional reserve banking, private central banks) are set up, and dividends are assured, then the PTB can sit back and allow human nature to drive much of the direction/future action. The 4th through 0 levels, and their actions, would be relatively easy to predict. A gentle nudge here or there, perhaps a signal every now and then to a rogue operator, etc. But not so much a steady hand on the wheel, but automatic pilot with occasional inputs from the captain. 

On another point, I'm intrigued to see how MortgageGate turns things. Clearly, the eventual final burst of greed and sloppiness at the top of a parabolic credit curve can be 'predicted', without knowing how it will reveal itself. But I am hopeful that perhaps the shadow nature of levels 1-3 will be revealed as anti-thesis to the direct freedom and prosperity of the average citizen. 

Again, thanks. 

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 04:33 | 639023 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Just as a thought experiment, I could imagine the 5th level actually requiring very little direct 'effort'.


One of the conceits of man is that he has "control" when in fact he has very little. If we were to place a rat in a very large maze, the size of a basketball court, the rat would most certainly begin to think it had control over its decisions. It would set up a home or two, foraging areas, rest stops, storage depots etc. Yet it would always need to turn left at the end of this passage and a right at the end of that passage.

All the controller needs to do is close and open a few gates and the entire game changes. Yet the individual rat sees only minor variations and it might take a while before it even sees any change.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:17 | 637782 mcarthur
mcarthur's picture

No offense intended, but why does a couple in their 60's have a mortgage in the first place?

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:26 | 637986 Kali
Kali's picture

why was this junked?  It's a valid question.  Used to be, banks wouldn't give you a mortgage if you were past a certain age.  Used to be, when you retired, if you owned a home, you sold it and downsized, paying cash for your "last resting place", if you didn't go to live with other relatives.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 14:12 | 638088 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

What?!  Are you crazy? 

Accept a degree of modesty?

Act like an adult? 

They were just being good american "consumers".  God, I hate that word.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 15:46 | 638234 Misstrial
Misstrial's picture

Lending standards have recently reverted to previous, whereby if a prospective borrower is age 50 or older, they must now provide a fifty (50) percent cash downpayment along with meeting all other asset requirements.


Sat, 10/09/2010 - 15:31 | 638213 DosZap
DosZap's picture



Could be,

"Brian and Ilsa are salt-of-the-earth people: They put four kids through college, they always paid their taxes. The last time Brian broke the law was in 1998: An illegal U-turn on a suburban street."

First, we all know this is cheap.Second, I am sure with the storyline given, they likely could pay cash for the home NOW.

But, that was not their dream, nor their Retirement  plan.

Playing by the rules, gets you Bitch Slapped around here.......

Maybe if they had not put FOUR kids thru college, then this would never have been an issue.

(PS: Hope these two aren't one of your parents, the no good sorry assed sobs).

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:18 | 637784 jesus_quintana
jesus_quintana's picture

Have been wondering for a while now why people threatened with foreclosure haven't gotten themselves organised... Something along the lines of a web site letting people know when and where a foreclosure is due to happen in any given town or city. Have a few hundred people waiting at every property, every time the fraudulent bastards turn up to kick people onto the street and change the locks. Non-violent but obstructive enough to stop it happening. Make it viral and the banks would soon back off and the sleazy bankster-shill politicians would HAVE to sit up and take notice of what people are telling them.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 15:34 | 638217 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Hell, contact ACORN........................get those Red Shirted Ho's out dere..................

Oh,wait, they likely not Union, and sure are not ethnic minorities..Fk em!.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:26 | 637788 Mercury
Mercury's picture

Sorry Brian and Ilsa, maybe you haven't been paying attention. You see Barack Obama is now president's a long story but the bottom line is, you're the kind of folks from whom wealth will be transferred from, not to.

Please make a note of it.

If it's any consolation the Administration would like to assure you that the current financial crisis is not being wasted.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:43 | 637822 JohnKing
JohnKing's picture

Yes...the real problem was stated early on in the article:

Brian and Ilsa are the kind upright, not to say uptight 60-ish white semi-upper-middle-class couple

Had they been born with more diverse characteristics they would have the full benefit of public/political outrage, however these are the targets of re-distribution, they are getting their just due.

Dig into the racial characteristics of successful HAMP mods and I'm sure you'll discover how "diversity" plays out.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 12:26 | 637885 Everyman
Everyman's picture

60-ish white semi-upper-middle-class couple

Well here's your problem.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:06 | 637952 Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

Maybe, just maybe, those gated communities are just debt prisons with golf.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 14:14 | 638090 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

Very good!



Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:53 | 637835 Eureka Springs
Eureka Springs's picture

This D vs R myopia is incredibly stupid. The problems are systemic and have roots going back decades. To address this as one party against another when both are killing this country/rule of law is only helping perpetuate it or an attempt to make things worse.

There are no good guys (or certainly less than a handful) in the two party monied system! Criminal are still in charge of both major parties.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:47 | 638043 ConfederateH
ConfederateH's picture

Spoken like a true democrat.  When are you guys going to admit that you are the ones who elected a communist whose sole purpose in life is to destroy the "bourgoisie".

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 15:09 | 638178 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Yeah.   Barry is not actually on board with the usual Dem grievance politics.   For example he has nothing in common culturally with african americans.  His thing, stated in his books, is a grievance against western civilisation, a mission he literally swore on his loser Kenyan father's grave to carry on.  He is about tearing down something he is bitter about, reducing it, putting it in its place.   That thing is America.   He laced his campaign rhetoric with comments like "under my plan, electricity prices would necessarily skyrocket."   Tell me how that is supposed to appeal to the common man or help the health of U.S. generally speaking?    It isn't meant o help.  It is meant to punish and reduce to poverty.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 17:04 | 638360 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

I agree.  It is not the Democrats or the Republicans that are killing this Country it is the Federal Reserve.  The Federal Reserve contols the Government, not the other way around.  What about Paulson telling Congress unless they approved the 700 Billion Bail Out Bill there would be Martial Law and Riots in the Streets.  I thought Elliot Ness got rid of the Gansters.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:28 | 637795 alexwest
alexwest's picture

finally suckers woken up...:)))))))

seems ass is abit sore.. and vaseline is not help at all anymore..

#uck the goverment...

good times will gonna roll pretty soon


Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:29 | 637799 theworldisnotenough
theworldisnotenough's picture

I guess I can count Brian and Ilsa as Marco Rubio voters

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 16:06 | 638279 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

Well, they seem to be trying to both make and not make their payments.  That sort of dithering seems to mark them as fans of Charlie Crist.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 18:16 | 638431 nmewn
nmewn's picture


Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:29 | 637800 Bob
Bob's picture

Great work, Gonzalo. 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:29 | 637801 Dehrow
Dehrow's picture

Yeah, bank of america sux dix. Viva la Revolucion!

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 12:25 | 637884 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

bank of america sux dix

This post is so puerile I'm LMAO. What does that say about where our minds are at? LMAO!!! 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:30 | 637804 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Right out of Francisco's money speech. "....when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice--you may know that your society is doomed." - 

Are we really that busy that we no longer have time to Go Galt, or is the prevailing wisdom that only force, or violence could make a difference, but would do little against our advanced military/para-military police force? Have we forgotten he lessons of the MLK's and Gandhis? Perhaps it is time that people are reminded of just how effective a critical mass of cars parked on an expressway, or 100s of thousands individuals clogging the capitals across the nation, can be?

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:34 | 637810 Bob
Bob's picture

Very good question and suggestions.  In this environment, however, somebody's going to incur the wrath of Homeland Security for their peaceful actions. 

Perhaps some of the people who will otherwise go much more unpleasantly nuclear will see such alternative options first.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:28 | 637993 Kali
Kali's picture

They already are, at least for war protesters.  You are considered a terrorist now, if you don't toe the line.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 22:01 | 638703 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

over the years quite a few rulings & amendments have been made, "orders" passed, etc., with the usual zero fanfare - for instance,

Last Thursday, December 17, 2009, The White House released an Executive Order "Amending Executive Order 12425." It grants INTERPOL (International Criminal Police Organization) a new level of full diplomatic immunity afforded to foreign embassies and select other "International Organizations" as set forth in the United States International Organizations Immunities Act of 1945.

By removing language from President Reagan's 1983 Executive Order 12425, this international law enforcement body now operates - now operates - on American soil beyond the reach of our own top law enforcement arm, the FBI, and is immune from Freedom Of Information Act (FOIA) requests.


there are others out there, but you get the gist.


Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:47 | 637824 Everyman
Everyman's picture

Dude GIVE IT A REST with your kumbaya mentality.  What you do not get is that this level of money and power will not be given up "willingly" or for the "greater good".  YOU may have the morals which are good and just, however those IN POWER DO NOT and they will not quibble or concern themselves if the millions of kids have to skip a meal, because of the economic calamity TPTB have wrought.

There are going to be MILLIONS of "collateral damage cases" with kids and food, spousal abuse, crime increase, cat and dogs sleeping together, alcholism and chemical abuse as the pressures of economic loss mount.

Remember that the UE bene's are GONE at 99 weeks.  There are a lot that will now have to take that job that makes them feel "less of a person" in their eye.  And why do we have this?

GREED!  Unbridled.  We are not talking an investor making money here, we are talking "ill gotten gains", from fraud and outright theft.


"They are average, ...and they number in the millions."

It will not take anytimne for TPTB to realize that they are no longer welcome and will be hunted down like the dogs of society they are.

There is not only contempt for these assholes (TPTB), but there is OUTRIGHT HATRED> I LOATHE THES PRICKS.


I salute those that gave them the midle finger and said "fuck 'em"!

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 12:03 | 637850 bronzie
bronzie's picture

psychopaths rule the world

I saw an interesting study on psychopaths - iirc, the study concluded that 6% of humans have their brains wired in a manner which prevents them from feeling ANY empathy for their fellow human beings - there is another 12% of the population that learns to be psychopathic because of their environment (they learn to suppress their empathy) - the study also pointed out that it is precisely this 18% of the population that is drawn to positions of power

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:13 | 637963 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

you can debate where the evolutionary advantage lies...but

, what takes 10,000 men to build can be destroyed by one.

Destruction is a "cheating" power much easier to achieve and wield than creation. The Devil cheats. And the devils of our great amerikan oligarchy... CHEAT!

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:41 | 638027 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Sadly true, and becoming more so, the "arsonists edge".

Kissinger said many moons ago that when terrorism becomes cheaper, you will get more of it.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 15:40 | 638227 DosZap
DosZap's picture


#1 Lawyers, #2 Bankers!.

By jove, you nailed it.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 16:20 | 638304 Misstrial
Misstrial's picture

bronzie: linked to this article from The Root on psychopaths, "Why Does the World Feel Wrong?":


Sat, 10/09/2010 - 22:15 | 638724 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

recommended reading to everyone who is planning on voting soon.

oh, and everyone else too.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 12:31 | 637896 Bob
Bob's picture

Yeah, the hatred is coming through loud and clear, everyman.  I can't blame you for that.  Alot of people feel the same way, myself included. 

And it's good to know that should it reach the point where a need for violence is undeniable, there are people who have been preparing. 

But I gotta say that if you're trying to rouse it on an internet board--particularly in a high-profile "radical" location like ZH--you must be starting to really lose it.

I said starting, my friend. 

If your intention is to genuinely foment violent revolution, you sure as hell shouldn't be doing it here at ZH.  I mean, think about it.  You should be busying yourself offline to accomplish that goal.  Continuing here would only serve to prove, and I'm sorry to say it, that you're nuts. 

Or, alternatively, that you're striving to bring very ugly heat on this community. 

I don't know the answer, just sayin' . 

I feel your pain and your anger.  But you need to start really thinking about others. 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 17:21 | 638377 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

thanks for expressing these thoughts more eloquently & considerately than i could bob.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 16:14 | 638290 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I guess you never read Atlas Shrugged.  You would think that it was written last week, despite being written some, what? 60 years ago?

A quicker read is fofoa's post on the two types of people, debtors and savers (edit:  here's the link-- ).  What we have here is the end of a debtor's rule cycle.  There need not be bloodshed at the end of the debtor's reign.  All that is needed is for the savers to pick up the slack and rule again for the next couple of hundred years, if we can manage another run like that which started with the founding of this country.

That does not mean that one shouldn't be prepared for war.  It can and does sometimes happen, and when it does, it generally means a descent into a brief period of total debtor rule.  These are the "Khmer Rouge"'s, where the debtors attempt to get out of their obligations by totally eliminating the saver class.  These are mercifully rare.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:35 | 637811 jplotinus
jplotinus's picture

The article contains what I consider to be an unacceptable propaganda overlay, starting right at the beginning with the words "true story."  It gets worse, if that is possible from a propaganda perspective, with the following additional propaganda triggers:

"...follow every rule..."
"...backbone of America..."

Those examples were set in a context of adherence to paying an underwater mortgage and angst about the "absurd" possibility of a strategic default.

That is propaganda.

Its intent fits quite nicely into a subtext that attaches stigma to strategic default under the barely disguised rubric of homeowners "trying to get something for nothing."  Clearly, the article does not attach the favorable, Apple-pie, Mom, etc., descriptors like 'backbone of America' to those who strategically default.  Rather, it provides that propaganda cover to those who do not strategically default.

Look, the fraud committed by the TBTF banks and their Wall Street allies is a huge crime that not only permits, but also mandates strategic default.  The entire housing asset of the entire population of America has been undercut by fraud.

Furthermore, allowing people to obtain "easy money" by signing notes secured by their ownership of their homes is no different from dealing crack cocaine.  Easy money is just as addictive as crack is, any day of the week.  The law comes down hard on the crack dealer and sends the buyer off to rehab.

So it must ultimately be with foreclosuregate.  The law must come down hard on the dealers; i.e., the banks and the mere buyers must be sent to rehab; meaning, they keep their homes and pay little or nothing. 

And, they get to keep their homes without being stigmatized or compared unfavorably to those who are reluctant to engage in strategic default.

In the preceding sentence lies the real issue that the propaganda piece glossed over, hid and otherwise tried to skirt.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 12:58 | 637944 Double down
Double down's picture

Must be American, a well argued opinion must be propganda.  Spare me 'insights"

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 14:34 | 638121 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

When propaganda is what people want to hear and read, it is no longer propaganda.

Still funny to watch/ read the holier than you people and there is a lot on here.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 01:44 | 638935 scaleindependent
scaleindependent's picture

"When propaganda is what people want to hear and read, it is no longer propaganda"


LOL. You are joking, correct?

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 06:42 | 639055 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

No, stating the obvious.

Just read the whole thread of comments.

The man is right, the article smells of propaganda.

If you are familiar with this site, many boast about being adverse to propaganda. Yet, this article is welcomed as non being propaganda.

Just stating the obvious.

Only a few people in History were stupid/sincere enough to admit they propagate.

For all the other propagandists, propaganda is always in the other's mouth.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:41 | 637820 pragmatic hobo
pragmatic hobo's picture

Justice, or at least a sense justice, is required to maintain a civilization. After what is biggest con of the century, the bankers have walked free and flounting their victory. Just look at Blankfein paying $35M cash for central park condo. Just look at Cassano drawing millions in salary after he fucked up biggest insurer. The elites are forgetting that without the slaves thay can't be masters.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:43 | 637823 His Dudeness
His Dudeness's picture

Does anyone see a parallel between the demise of Great Britain as THE world power and the U.S.?

G.B. would give us the invention of the Tabloids (the page 6 girl!), and has been entertaining it's citizenry with other media stimilu to give them something to do and take their collective attention away from the 'big picture'; and now the U.S. 'entertains' itself with tabloids, reality tv, twitter, facebook, cable, ipods/ipads, espn, fantasy sports leagues, talk radio, etc.????

Even without corruption in every area of every institution, and bubble after bubble, with all this crap about us we'd still be a sorry excuse for being fully human.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 12:15 | 637868 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

All nations die.

The average age of a democracy, in history, has been right around 200 years.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 14:11 | 638086 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Depends what you call "democracy". This one has lasted well under 100 years since all people (women, blacks, naturalised immigrants) had the vote. In ancient Greece, only landowners were "citizens" and could vote.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 14:51 | 638151 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

The Founders were geniuses. A republic is more stable, but the end is the same.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 15:58 | 638266 DosZap
DosZap's picture


In early America only land owners could vote also.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 16:08 | 638285 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Thus i-dog declares 100 years, and not since 1776, as the life of the American democracy "experiment".

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!