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Good News: It's Almost Over After Pelosi Says Congress Looking At "Two-Tiered" Deal
With 23 hours left until the Asian open (or, more importantly, 19 hours until FX trading resumes) and with today's round of talks now official over after a one hour meeting in Boehner's office with congressional leaders achieved nothing, it is becoming clear that the final debt ceiling outcome will be "no change" in spending or taxing habits and a temporary hike in the debt ceiling, so that the soap opera can be repeated again every three months... and again... and again... and so forth for an "extended period of time" as "transitory solutions' become the new grand consensus. At least we now know the phrase for complete, impotent incompetence in the Hill is: "Two tiered approach" which is how Nancy Pelosi called the last minute attempt at compromise. Per The Hill: "House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said Saturday night that congressional leaders are considering a two-tiered approach to raising the debt ceiling and reducing the nation’s long-term budget deficit. Pelosi reiterated that she backs “a long-term extension” of the $14.3 trillion debt limit, putting her in line with the demands of President Obama and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.)." Alas this now appears to be a mirage: at best the Republicans will agree to a $200-300 billion extension to get the Treasury through for another 2 months (although at the delayed run rate, Geithner needs to issue $350 billion in debt right now just to catch up with where bond issuance should be). And then again until the general public gets so tired of this charade that they vote Obama out. Or so the republicans think. Or who the hell knows what they think. Or anyone else for that matter. It does appear however, that unless there is a definitive and consensual proposal on the table by 4 pm tomorrow when FX opens, the market will no longer be able to ignore what is happening in DC. Which brings us to the best news of the day: this whole farcical spectacle is almost over.
From The Hill:
Boehner told House Republicans earlier in the day that he wanted to present a plan by Sunday afternoon to avoid rattling the Asian markets.
Aides have said the Speaker continues to insist that the size of spending cuts exceed the size of any increase in the debt limit, meaning that lawmakers would need to agree on more than $2.4 trillion in cuts to extend federal borrowing beyond 2012.
Pelosi said the leaders are looking at a two-tiered approach, which would likely combine immediate spending cuts while creating a process for Congress to enact entitlement and tax reforms over the next several months. She hinted, however, that the revenue would come in the second “tier” of the process.
“One option is to do something in two tiers, and I don’t think we can accomplish what we need to do in deficit reduction without revenues,” Pelosi said.
Asked if the revenues would come in the second tier, she replied: “It would have to be if we are going to go into … what we need to do is to greatly reduce the deficit. But it is not over yet.”
Pelosi said congressional leaders are still working but that no further meetings were scheduled as of Saturday night.
Elsewhere, in a desperate attempt to prolong the drama, Harry Reid said that he was "deeply disappointed" in debt
talks with Republicans, saying a lack of progress was bringing the
United States closer to default.
From Reuters: Reid issued the statement following a meeting of congressional leaders. Reid insisted that a deficit reduction deal should also raise U.S. borrowing authority through 2012 so that the U.S. credit rating would not be downgraded.
To be honest, we have had enough with ridiculous diversions. Just pass the damn "deal" already so that we can all resume observing the global economy collapse in on itself first slowly, and then very very fast.
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Antichrist :
Nietzsche and 'Thus spoke Zarathustra' not far away as an alienating sequel; where God is questioned...Those whom the Gods wish to destroy they first drive mad...Hubris was, is, will remain man's worst and most deadly stratospheric vice. Whatever the metaphysical dilemma about the supreme being's eventual existence.
Nietzsche's masterpiece only sold 40 copies during his life time...(((.
Talent is not always rewarded during their living lives, as for Van Gogh.
Makes me humble as writer!
BTW if Goethe was sui generis in this type of poetry, Wagner was probably unique is his type of despondent grandiose music as a hymn to pagan mythology.
What IS it about tough economic times that makes people quote german philosophers.. in freakin' German fer Chrissakes... it's not my fault you majored in german, instead of something useful, so why do I have to pay for it?
Hey Mess, thanks at least for not laughing at the errors! No need to pay me directly, just send $50 to the Hank Paulson Fawnclub on my behalf.
When the banksters and the too big to fail corporates were plundering the US for tens of trillions, there wasn't a peep from Congress about not being able to afford it.
When the neo-cons wanted another war a mere few months ago, not a squalk out of Congress about the national debt.
When Big Sis wanted to buy Chertoff's porno-scanners, not a word out of Congress about an unecessary expenditure.
When DHS expanded dramatically under S-510 (the food bill) Congress rubber stamped it.
When Obama was in South America cutting deals to give away more US jobs, Congress never once considered that the loss in tax revenue would be counter-productive.
The thought of cutting billionaire corporate welfare and generous tax rebates (which indirectly subsidize their continued off-shoring efforts), Congress finds those programs untouchable.
When it comes to Afghani and Iraqui appointees stealing billions of dollars from the war chest, (not to mention the Pentagon's inability to keep track of their money) Congress doesn't blink.
While Bernanke funnells trillions to foreign banks and businesses, Congress turns the other way.
Granny's $700 a month -- string the witch up.
It's all a matter of priorities, and the multi-national conglomerates are at the very top of the heap.
Prediction: they will cut the social safety nets. In the end, Uncle Sam will funnel every last penny 'saved' straight into the pockets of the Too Big To Fail. i.e. the top .1%
You dance a deadly belly dance when you sing your sad, sad song of the Oligarchs on their triumphant march.
Hit it on the head - this post should go viral . Too bad with the new set up profound comments cant get tweeted .
Great post, Natasha Fatal! As Boris said in response to Rocky saying, "Say, haven't we seen you somewhere before?" to which Boris replies, "Do I look like a liar?? Never mind the answer!", so it is with these porcine reptiles that make up the Congress. (A gaggle of geese, an exaltation of larks, a congress of pigs).
For the last few posts, I could almost believe that not every thing on ZH is guns and ammo--what a breath of fresh air! I find it ironic that whereas the Boston Tea Party was about no taxation without representation, the present Tea Partiers prefer austerity, which could be accomplished by increased taxation, spending cuts, or a combination--it makes no difference in the end. I don't think the Boston Tea Partiers would have adopted the slogan, "Give us austerity, please!" But you know, we have to pay off those debts we ran up in your list of abuses. How about this: austerity only for those groups who argue for it. Likewise, how about austerity for the Congress, so they can -- never mind, no point in lashing the tide.
What would it take to avoid an Orwellian future? That seems to be what were faced with now, worldwide. I notice that legislatures worldwide have also been turning a deaf ear to the people they supposedly represent, as Congress did during TARP, when the people were overwhelmingly opposed to it. Voters were wise to the scam it turned out to be. Maybe it raised some hackles when Paulson tried to inure himself from accountability? What the people--worldwide--want is clawbacks from the recipients of all the largess and harsh justice applied to corporate and political malfactors. They also want the congress to be representatives, not leaders. It's too late, unfortunately. Sauve qui peut.
Raised debt limit or austerity. The result for us little people is the same: we're fooked.
Congress should be fighting to end the stranglehold of the TBTF. Instead they argue over how best to squeeze the peasants. Sadly, the TBTF are the only ones with representation.
They don't realize it and they vehemently deny it, but the Tea-party is enabling the Corporatists' solidification of power.
Heh cutie, where's Boris?
sorry Natasha...I think the Tea Party is holding firm to expose the facists/corporatists (all of them). so, we cut granny's check....granny's gonna get mad (along with the entire extended family). then we will have true discovery of the problem and hopefully REAL reforms.
Natasha,
how succinct! ...I am sending your comments to everyone I know...
Fucking "A" right! Nothing that this paleocon can't wholeheartedly agree with.
QE3 in disguise this is.
"Two Tiered Deal" ...Oh No, they're slicing and dicing debt in Washington like Wall Street..
...all we need now is a AAA Credit Rating on this 'structured' debt and sub-prime 2008 exploding sugar coated turds here we come again!
100% serfdom to feudal lords, is zero problems...granted.
enormous amount of meat for thought tonight in comments, another well spent early morning -- thanks all.
Looking forward to working within the new format, Tyler. Thank you.
According to NapedCapitalism.com, debt ceiling talks include TARP language which gives everybody a waiver. I've sent the following letter to my two senators and congressman:
Sir,
It is my understanding that the debt ceiling talks include a “Get Out of Jail Free Card” provision. Specifically, the language used in TARP which forbids an audit and any legal review is completely unacceptable.
“Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.”
There should be no waivers to the Treasury Department, Tim Geithner, Congress or anyone else for that matter.
Quite frankly, I am extremely unhappy about raising the debt ceiling. The claims that people will be hurt are offset by the fact that people are being hurt now. This picking of winners and losers by Washington and Wall Street has got to end.
The idea that no one will be held accountable is absolutely unacceptable.
If you support a debt ceiling raise that contains language of this sort I will do everything in my power to unelect you. I assure you that Arkansans are sick and tired of others being exempt from the law.
That proves one thing: They're crooks!
However, I don't understand this tendency to include a non-reviewability clause in legislation. That would seem to violate separation of powers by pre-empting the Supreme Court. I would think anything the legislature does is subject to judicial review, including the very act of inserting such a clause, if not specifically provided for by the Constitution. The court could refuse to hear the case, which the current politicized court might very well do, although that would amount to a diminution of their power. I would have thought this idea would have been broached or discussed when Lord Humungous himself, Henry Paulson, tried it.
AR Angie, we have a saying in TX, Pigs get fat and Hogs get slaughtered. The lawbanking hogs watered down voting with deceit, political machines and posturing. With the 13th and 14th amendments you became property of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Voting means next to nothing. The deal is already done. Sounds bad right? Nope. Not at all. Just sit back and enjoy watching these Hogs slaughter themselves. The natural laws of physics ensure this. Thermodynamics. If you expend energy inefficiently you lose it in lots and lots of heat. The heat kills any efficiency you might have left. It's an iteration of (T_i - T_f) / T_i which is the Carnot efficiency. Imagine running your car with no coolant. 70% of the petrol explosion goes into heating up the block and other parts. Soon you're going to sieze the engine. The coolant in the economy is higher interest rates or failed businesses taking away the inefficiencies. Neither one of those is applied to the heavy hitting lobbyist corporations, global banks and government itself (they are so indistingiushable it's hard to describe them). The engine already seized we're coasting to a stop now. Just relax, enjoy the show and be happy you live in AR and not some metropolitan sewer of oppression of thought.
I thought capitalism was naked...like the emperor.
After three years of spitting in the face of all market participants (except their co-conspirators) they are now concerned about the Asian markets?
If they had real money rather than useless toilet paper they wouldn't be concerned about foreign markets.
Theatre for the plebs. The illusion of representative government. Time will tell when the US defaults and determines who will get paid:
Foreign investors (corporations, governments and individuals) hold $4.4 trillion or 31.6% of $14+ trillion
Asian investors hold 19.4%
See story - http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/07/-14-trillion-in-debt-but-who-owns-all-that-money/242267/
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Guess I better buy more silver today instead of at the end of the month...
@Tyler
Have I misses something ? .. like how to rate comments !
Got Gold?
Got Gold?
All to do now is wait... I for one hope the market speaks truth, and eviscerates Treasuries, despite all the posturing and lying going on in WADC. The worst conceit of power is to think one possesses it. May the Asians eat out the entrails of US Congressbeings while they lie there and whimper!
The Troll Geithner was just on State of the Union, and he said the two teir deal is unacceptable by Obammy. Anyone wanna bet by 6pm EST it becomes acceptable, because Obama and his phonies cater to Wall Street. Every time Wall St. throws a tantrum, these politicans give in and screw working Americans. It is time for a new form of government. Hell, full blown Socialism is looking better every minute...
Fuck Tim Geithner, he has NO SAY in this, only congress has that power.
Obama needs to announce a debt ceiling czar and a AAA rating czar, then we can sleep well knowing we are in good hands
Obama needs to announce a debt ceiling czar and a AAA rating czar, then we can sleep well knowing we are in good hands
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Maybe if we stopped giving our tax dollars away we might get somewhere.
http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=9e2a4ea8-6e73-4be2-a753-62060dcbb3c3
The Fed Audit
July 21, 2011
The first top-to-bot
tom audit of the Federal Reserve uncovered eye-popping new details about how the U.S. provided a whopping $16 trillion in secret loans to bail out American and foreign banks and businesses during the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. An amendment by Sen. Bernie Sanders to the Wall Street reform law passed one year ago this week directed the Government Accountability Office to conduct the study. "As a result of this audit, we now know that the Federal Reserve provided more than $16 trillion in total financial assistance to some of the largest financial institutions and corporations in the United States and throughout the world," said Sanders. "This is a clear case of socialism for the rich and rugged, you're-on-your-own individualism for everyone else."Yep, and it's all grandmas fault isn't it.
Without looking into it, my first thoughts on the '2 tier' deal mean 1 tier of no changes for the rich and tier 2 fuck everyone else.
Other thoughts this am, if that terrorist guy is labeled as a 'physco', then what would you call invading countries and killing hundreds of thousands over BS reasons? Would it be safe to include DC in that category as well?
What a lying bunch of cowardly whores. They can cut spending today, not some nebulous process in the future. God, we are toast. Time to get some more ASE before they are all gone.
Wow, this new system works great. I only had to hit "enter" once to double post, not twice like before. What a time saver!
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Gold, the only lie detector that actually works.
Cognitive Dissonance, Zero Hedge
Their plans get worse as it goes along. Maybe doing nothing for a change would be better.
everyone is talking about compromise. If compromise means that in five years we've extended the debt limit 2 or 3 more times and our national debt is $20T instead of $14T, I say fuck compromise and bring on default.
Bad news: more can-kicking while Obama's cronies continue to loot the country.
Look, the bottom line is this; if they raise the debt ceiling they are once again telling us that they can not live within their means. It is akin to my daughter asking for another credit card because she already max'd out her other one and because she wants to keep spending beyond what she can afford. We have to cut the spending!
Mr Market says "My job is to levitate the markets, and propel asset values higher, so we can reinvest those profits into new technology, and products. Their job is to maintain the status quo. The most important person in a huge building like the one I live in, is the janitor. If that guy doesn't show up nothing gets done."
Washington DC janitorial service representative says " There's plenty of paper, we've just had some trouble with the new employees. People don't know where they are supposed to be, and how the whole cycle operates. Once we get these people trained everything will flow smoothly, and you won't even notice we are here."
Mr Market answers "We're fine with your service, except of course those union organizers. What the hell do they want? And that guy who wants to throw rolls of our important paper off the penthouse roof? We pay money for that stuff? Don't you screen your employees for psychological abnormalities?
Washington DC janitorial service representative replies: "What do you expect for $8 an hour? You think these people are fine with their situation, because you send the K street food truck around with free coffee once in a while? Okay we all have a lot invested in the status quo. Tomorrow is Monday, and is everything will be ready."
This is the end
Beautiful friend
This is the end
My only friend, the end
Of our elaborate plans, the end
Of everything that stands, the end
No safety or surprise, the end
I'll never look into your eyes...again
Can you picture what will be
So limitless and free
Desperately in need...of some...stranger's hand
In a...desperate land
Lost in a Roman...wilderness of pain
And all the children are insane
All the children are insane
Waiting for the summer rain, yeah
There's danger on the edge of town
Ride the King's highway, baby
Weird scenes inside the gold mine
Ride the highway west, baby
Ride the snake, ride the snake
To the lake, the ancient lake, baby
The snake is long, seven miles
Ride the snake...he's old, and his skin is cold
The west is the best
The west is the best
Get here, and we'll do the rest
The blue bus is callin' us
The blue bus is callin' us
Driver, where you taken' us
The killer awoke before dawn, he put his boots on
He took a face from the ancient gallery
And he walked on down the hall
He went into the room where his sister lived, and...then he
Paid a visit to his brother, and then he
He walked on down the hall, and
And he came to a door...and he looked inside
Father, yes son, I want to kill you
Mother...I want to...fuck you
C'mon baby, take a chance with us
C'mon baby, take a chance with us
C'mon baby, take a chance with us
And meet me at the back of the blue bus
Doin' a blue rock
On a blue bus
Doin' a blue rock
C'mon, yeah
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill
This is the end
Beautiful friend
This is the end
My only friend, the end
It hurts to set you free
But you'll never follow me
The end of laughter and soft lies
The end of nights we tried to die
This is the end
still seems to me the house republican resolve is underestimated by the media and the democrats.