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To paraphrase Mr. van Praag, "prop trading is a minor part of our business." The market begs to differ.
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I expected a bigger haircut to them than what is holding now. Only down 5% after a bit of digesting. I was looking for 150.
Slowly, slowly, catchy monkey
Wonder how GS gets out of their statements that being a holdco was the right move as the Fed is the approp regulator? Of course Kanjorski the shill and the Liesman parsing about the holdco vs. the bank etc. Sad
I would be very skeptical of this legislation passing with any kind of teeth in it. It is political theater that will die down. I still think the trade is long financials and short the S&P. It is the most cynical position I can think of and this strategy has served us well for the last year.
Remember, this is America. If congress passes, or fails to pass a law is really immaterial since most of what happens now happens via Royal Decree, OOPs, Executive Order. If it doesn't pass congress and Obama wants to do it he will just sign a piece of paper and it will be a done deal. Especially if he uses the "national security necessity" trump card. Remember folks, the power of the unitary executive is a gift the previous republican administration and congress brought back to life and presented to the current administration.
Bob Pisanya "Hey the volume is good today, that's bullish."
Would love to see all the idiots of CNBCOMCASTAGANDA on the jobless claims list. They deserve nothing better.....
I would love to see them doing their shows from Sponge Bob's pinapple house without aqualungs (I guess Cabrerra would be the last to go?)
Can't Goldman just abandon their BHC status? It's not like they were using deposits to fund anyway.
Love or hate Obama, the GS guys are better at getting around rules than BHO is at crafting them.
ditto this question. of course GS makes a ton of money trading - why will they have to stop that? they are clearly the least "banky" of all the "banks" - wouldn't they abandon the commercial bank status and go back to being an IB like they used to be?
Yes - they will abandon their bank charter if necessary. Probably should anyway to get rid of 18 layers of government regulation. Then they would only be left with 37 layers of government regulation. It is what ZHers love.
"Can't Goldman just abandon their BHC status? It's not like they were using deposits to fund anyway."
That sound like the $64 trillion question!
You guys are really not bright. This will destroy the markets and the banks as well. It is populist BS. LImits yes but this goes way to far. Don't be a part. This is very dark and very dangerous. Be careful what you wish for...
The "markets" are destroying us ,it is a zero sum game - savers vs speculators
Which side are you on?
FAIL
Populist BS are the AIG bailouts, bond guarantees and governmental stimulus funding to maintain the Wall Street mandated minimum wage. At least from the populist perspective of Wall Street. The real populist rage these days comes from those spots and the inhabitants belief that the world is there to meet their needs. Only within the populist confines of Wall Street would it be expected that their entitlements include 500K year in welfare, 2K dollar food stamp dinners and public transportation via executive jet. Yes indeed, this rampant populism is going to destroy this country. It is high time these malcontents either hook up with the anarchists or they can put away their misguided belief that government is the answer to all their problems and rejoin the rest of society.
"Anonymous"
Be careful what you wish for? Populist BS?!?
Yeah, gee, the old corrupt system destroyed, banks destroyed... I'm crying rivers as the rest are.
I join on the FAIL comment.
Why postpone the enevitable?
Is it me or are you getting DDOSed? The site has been running awfully slow for me today. May be just a lot of visitors due to the Obama bank announcements tho.
Probably people like me hitting F5, looking for new analysis of wtf is going on today.
What about GS changing there status (August 2009) to a Financial Holding Company (from a
Bank Holding company) which allows it to continue under on the supervision
of the fed and still take part in privide equity...among other businesses....
Will the "other" include prop desks??
Secret video of the administration's new economic Czar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgGvd1UPZ88&feature=related
+10
This movie becomes more relevant with each passing day.
Bloomberg TV this morning reported that 71% of GS top line came from trading (not all that is prop trading, of course), and 13% came from asset management. Seems the model is a bit ill-positioned for future growth.
BTW, if any BloombergTV folks scan this site. The lovely faces that say intelligent things please me greatly, but lay off the "populist outrage" business. You don't have to be a populist to have major problems with the last 12 months.
jm - The media is as clueless as the politicians when it comes to understanding what has and is happening within our society. Folks having major problems with the last 24 months of "leadership" relating to our financial system and its governance include, but are not limited to; communists, socialists, greens, liberals, progressives, moderates, fiscal conservatives, social conservatives and libertarians. About the only folks that might be really pleased right about now with this mess would be the anarchists. If there was anything that either party could have done to bring bi-partisanship closer to reality it was in doing what the past two administrations have done with respect to the financial sector.
Finally, some change I can believe in. Greens & libertarians, progressives and social conservatives are meeting in agreement that those who have engineered these massive give aways from socializing Fannie & Freddie to the power grab by the fed in essence saying they have the power to appropriate & dispose have totally blown it. The horse is out of the barn and it will now take much more than posturing or what would have been considered "bold" action previously to placate the populace. Our political leadership will now have to learn what leadership really is.
You are seriously suggesting that TBTF banks are not happy with the past 24 months. Wow.
The ones who engineered all this over the last 20 (or 120) years were the banks, via their lobbyists. You will have a hard time convincing even a 10 year old that the large banks are not happy with the resulting profits and unrestricted access to the legal framework of Congress.
However the resulting damage to the reputations of finances, banks and bankers is 100% complete and this will be burned into racial memory for a hundred years, at least. They might be getting a little nervous about that, yes. Their ruinous greed will rank in human folly along side the Christian Crusades. An entire branch of historical analysis will need to be create and devoted just to trying to unravel how seemingly normal people could behave in such self-destructive ways towards themselves, their communities, their own long-term interests and the interests of Western civilization and global cohesion.
Yeah. Like, wow.
cougar
You are seriously suggesting that TBTF banks are not happy with the past 24 months. Wow.
Indeed I am Cougar. The TBTF institutions are probably the most unhappy of the whole of our society. After all, the folks who lead these institutions have discovered that there might actually be a limit and worse, that the limit may well have been passed. Tell me one person who would devote their life to the enterprise of doing what has been done only to discover that the potential wealth available is not unlimited? For the rest look at this thread for my discussion on the realizations by the TBTF institutions concerning their potential restriction of their government welfare entitlements and their populist malcontented flail.
Yeah. Like, wow. Cheers Cougar!
[only to discover that the potential wealth available is not unlimited]
Is this statement the core of your thesis? That the TBTF (or any of the others) suspects there is a limit? That the limit has actually been exceeded? That they will suffer as a result? Even in so minor a way as just maybe not get their bonus?
On what date or during which event was it plain that the limit of potential wealth had been exceed? At what amount? And who called the top? And what part of the market reacted in a negative way?
And then as a result of this calamity point to the bailout or handout or lootout or merger or bonus scheme or monetization scheme or any scheme (other than that one Ponzi scheme of Madoff's) that has been impacted? Oh and Madoff turned myself in, the loser.
I know, we're all down the rabbit hole. Space and time are distorted. Dogs and cats living together. But give me a break.
You may all be surprised, but there is a relatively less known Economics professor in Australia called Steve Keen, that theorized and uncannily predicted we would have had what we had in 2008....a Minsky moment. And he also well documented what went beyond the limit of potential wealth, private sector debt, and demonstrated clearly what is needed to get back to normal...a MASSIVE, PAINFUL DEKLEVERAGE that has JUST BEGAN.
Professor Keen is easy to read, at least when he is not demonstrating in differential equations (that I happen to appreciate..he's much more rigorous and math cultured than 95% of bloody economists..) , try and have a look at his work, this presentation is entertaining:
http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/
The final result is simple...in an era in which EVERYONE has to understand that debt does NOT disappear, is either defaulted or paid back, even politicians so openly corrupted or brain damaged like the Americans will be MADE to understand that the fiesta is over by the middle class they tried to run in the ground...when resources are scarce , and you allow oligarchs and banksters to pocket OBSCENE amounts of money totally unrelated with reality..you will be hunted down and outvoted. If you think that you can pocket lobbysts perks and do not listen to the people...you will be hunted down and outvoted. If you do not think that the entire concept of na CDS is flawed ( ackin to allow anyone to take up an insurance on the fire of an home you DO NOT OWN..) you will be hunted down and outvoted.
Because the people had simply had enough of you....and will exercise his right to terminate your cushioned careers.
Ever heard about Democracy??
Expect Goldman to go private and move their headquarters out of the United States.
CURBY / You are correct. They are discussing this option as we speak.
I suggest we beat them to it and move them into a FEMA camp.
I suggest we beat them to it and move them into a FEMA camp.
I suggest we sue GS to disgorge their profits and rebuild America's pensions and retirement accounts, jail whomever needs to be in jail and bar every single one of them from doing business in this industry ever again.
If other countries want to deal with their corruption, swell for them. Maybe they can move to China where the government will do whatever it is they do with people that piss them off.
I suggest that we beat them up and then move them to a FEMA camp.
Leo must be very busy today buying on this dip. No?
Even the PPT is selling today.
A loophole?
"White House official says under Obama proposal, banks would be allowed to do proprietary trading if related to client business - Reuters"
Link please.
Loophole? Heck, all prop trading boils down to is the firm looking to itself as a client. If this develops then what we have from the administration is an empty shell. Again.
facilitation is different than pure prop.
GS restricted stock priced today for bonuses, no wonder why market tanked
Expect Goldman to go private and move their headquarters out of the United States.
..................................
GS is correct to do just that....
And Obama/Volcker are correct in their latest venture....
................................
NEXT ????
Tax Structure change will make GS stay in the US....
..................................
Tax structure change ie eliminate individual/corp. income
taxes....replace with a 10/5 C tax only....
..................................
Next revamp the RETAIL securities system....ie defrag the exchanges....make supervision easy....make transactions more efficient.....no taxes of any kind....
.................................
THE GOLDEN AGE
PWN!
Teleprompter + hot air = master of spin
Come on folks, does anyone really think these financial reforms are going to see the light of day? Even if they do, they will be so watered down - with tons of loopholes - that Goldman and other investment banks will continue prop trading like nothing ever happened. President Obama can huff & puff all he wants, the Masters of the Universe still tell him when to recoil.
I dunno Leo, Congress is pretty frantic over the whole Mass. debacle. They know the big ol' light is shining on their termite heads. I'm sure a few of them are like, "WTF, I didn't know Americans still actually read and think. If ONLY American Idol as in full swing!?! Argh!"
GS and others cannot go on as business as usual. Mass., has told them that much.
But I agree its a lot of flash and less substance as a whole. We'll see, but don't underestimate this congressional crisis. Ironic that, WE The People should also not let a "good crisis" such as the MA. disaster, go to waste.
Call your Congress folks and tell them to get REAL or go buh-bye like the Kennedy seat. (Cough people's seat, that is).
Mass was only a debacle for some in Congress (clearly the majority). But reading it as bank angst is a mistake. The candidate who won does not even support the Obama $90 billion tax on banks (and his position was clear). If Mass was livid about banks, they would have never voted for Brown.
So "banks" would not be able to prop trade anymore but a non-BHC GS, the successor to Lehman owned by Barclays, foreign banks and an AIG can continue to do so?
And banks can lend to said firms?
Isn't this a bit like trying to dam a river by blocking just half of the river?
> Goodnight Goldman Prop
Take it away, Elton!
Well, I guess somebody's interested in calling the GS bluff. Would Mark McGuire or Jose Canseco have hit all those homeruns without the 'roids? Good luck, GS.