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GoogleEarth Based 3D Map Of Real-Time Radioactivity Distribution In Japan; Projected Global Radioactivity Dispersion
Confirming that in a time of instantaneous crowdsourced information distribution and analysis, any attempt by a government to institute an information blackout of any nature is doomed to failure, is the following amazing Google Earth-based 3D interactive map of Geiger readings from Japan. And if that is not enough, the Pachube community has released an extensive selection of crowd-sourced realtime radiation monitoring tools and widgets, focusing on as many Japanese territories as possible. Shortly we are confident all geographical holes will be filled, and every square mile of the affected territories will be mapped out surpassed the government's "Under Survey" blackout attempts.
Make sure to have the GoogleEarth API set up in advance of checking out the plugin.
Additionally, here is the most recent updated global radioactive fallout per ZAMG.
And a complete list of all the available crowdsourced radiation maps, applications and tutorials
- #geigermaps by @haiyan
- javascript map by @motoishmz
- Instructions for connecting up a geiger counter to Pachube (in Japanese) by @kotobuki
- RDTN by @rdtnorg
- All feeds on Pachube, mapped by search 'radiation' by Pachube
- Hacking a Geiger Counter in Nuclear Tokyo by akiba
- 3D realtime radiation in Japan (below) by uh
h/t Themos Mitsos
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Looks like a Malthusian crisis to me.
Or a solution to the food and energy crisis developing worldwide. Though I surely hope not as I live on the West Coast USA.
You may want to read this
http://www.miller-mccune.com/science-environment/50-years-after-nuclear-meltdown-3510/
From the article:
"One worker was blasted so forcefully into a rock that all that remained was a gruesome petroglyph."
Interesting post. What a nightmare.
Firing a shotgun at a barrel of toxic waste? That should win a Darwin Award.
“We scrubbed it down with water and sponges,” Pace said. “We tried mops. They’d get contaminated real quick and that was getting pretty expensive, so we ended up using Kotex.”
All this was done without protective clothing beyond coveralls and cotton caps that read, “Your Safety is Our Business — Atomics International.” There were no fully-enclosed radiation suits with face masks that nuclear workers routinely use today, designed to be dissolved and disposed of after one use.
“This had never happened before,” Pace said, “so it was a learning experience of how to clean up contamination.”
As the workers removed the fuel rods, one broke off. The worker accidentally dropped the broken rod back into the reactor. “He realized what had happened and panicked,” Pace said. “All he could think of doing is run. And as he was running, he was pulling alarms and ran out of the building and got outside.”
Pace said the situation deteriorated from there."
I would term it more "a learning experience of how NOT to clean up contamination"....not that the knowledge seems to have been widely disseminated.
Yikes:
“The EPA demanded that they be able to inspect the buildings themselves before they were torn down to make sure they had been cleaned up,” Hirsch said. “When the EPA arrived on the appointed day, three of the five buildings they were supposed to study had been already torn down, including the SRE. And some of the debris from those buildings was taken to regular municipal trash facilities. Radioactive metals went to a metal recycler and got melted into metal products.”
by the way...GREAT tits
Tyler can you ban this fool by ip please. We dont need some guy getting canned trying to read about markets.
The first rule of boobies is, you don't complain about boobies.
Well your avatar has enough milk to nourish a tribe so I wouldn't worry too much about survival against Malthusian black swans. I'm sure you'll do your bit to keep the tribe factory churning.
.
Explain while I hold back my rage at the mere mention of that vile name.
Agreed.
For those like me not "in the know", what "vile name" are you referring to, and why is it vile?
Thomas Malthus?
Yes, high priest of the cult of death. He declared that the world would run out of the food in the 70's, and proposed a campaign of "population reduction" to prevent that from happening.
Most "Peak X" theories are intimately related, as they all hold the "solution" as being a drastic reduction in the human population. Thing is, each and every time the world has been presented with a Malthusian situation, it has been resolved WITHOUT a mass human die-off. We ran out of charcoal to fuel the burgeoning industrial revolution in England, and switched to coal, which was BETTER. We ran oil of whale oil for lighting the Eastern US, and switched to kerosene, then electricity.
We "ran out" of food, and responded immediately by investing in research into increasing food production, and put a quick end to that "shortage".
He has been proven wrong over, and over, and over again. Yet still, backwards thinking fools feel the need to trot out genocide as a long term solution to our problems. THey seek death for themselves and all others, not necessarily in that order.
I agree and well said. Do you think however it's possible that at a minimun his theory has relevance taking exponential happenings into consideration? If for example we have "increased our food supply" to "more than meet" the demand, what if the demand grew exponentially more than the supply in short order? This, in his theory, isn't uncommon. I'm talking about 22 million women deciding to have 4 children in a few decades and those 4 children deciding to have 5 because it's gotten "that much easier"
Science fiction a bit I suppose but it does make me wonder at the rate of growth, if an exponential curve was to begin how much longer we could out-innovate our own mouths and needs as a planet and population.
(we're not the only ones here, and we need a lot of other species to survive in order for us to survive.)
</doom and gloom bullshit falderall>
Thomas Robert Malthus 14 February 1766 -1834
Tmos, he said WHAT about the 70's??
the 1770's?
1870's?
or the Wonder Years?
Lol, what's a century here or there between primates who have the intense urge to mate... To out-shaman the Shaman of death.
Sorry, his FOLLOWERS said that.
The high priest need not be bothered with specifics.
The "price doesn't matter" mindset is a slippery slope, because, as is documented for everyone to see here, it eventually leads to a mindset where facts and dates don't matter, either.
lol
A few months ago, I saw someone compare you to Cliff Clavin, and I'm beginning to understand why. You're a know-it-all, who knows nothing and leaves a wake of laughter behind you.
Funny you would say that being our newly self appointed gold and silver expert.
It's funny how everyone who I utterly destroy with logic and sound arguments can only come back and claim that everyone is laughing at ME. Look at the junks you accumulate, fool.
Also, get out, Libtroll.
Malthus was an optimist. Didn't understand the ecological concept of overshoot, which "we" are deeply in.
Malthus is wrong.He is amply discredited...for some time now.
Of course those who would kill off the useless eaters still embrace him.Why people still entertain his idiocy is beyond me.
BTW...having a Geiger counter means never having to to depend on others for background data.Right now in Asheville,NC counts are back to normal.This past saturday they were quite elevated, for now...we have a reprieve.
Thanks for that information. I'm right outside of Asheville. Did you get your Geiger counter locally?
your post is a classic example of normalcy bias.
You ASSUME that scientists will be able to duplicate past feats. Past performance does not guarantee future results, does it?
Suppose that science does NOT provide a ready alternative for oil...then what?
Or suppose it DOES, but this leap does not take place on the timeframe that you'd like it to? Suppose oil peaks and the unicorns don't get bred until 30 years later?
Whale oil wasn't a lynchpin to every aspect of global economics...it wasn't used to grow food. It had a niche application for lighting and there were ready alternatives to it.
So, we not only need a new growable power source, but a replacement for the base of our entire petrochemical industry, including for fertilizer. To synthesize this chemical base will require astoundingly more power than we presently are capable of generating by any known means.
This simply was not true 150 years ago when you talk the nonsense about whale oil. If whale oil disappeared, life went on without much difference. If mineral oil disappeared, all hell would break loose, and literally most of the world population would die.
Peak oil has nothing whatsoever to do with Malthus; Hubbert merely described the natural behavior of oil well production. It is cornucopians like you who idiotically pretend that there is no problem. The distance between Rome's exhaustion of wood and the advent of coal was well over 1000 years.
Easter Island never came back either. Rock oil was KNOWN long before it became the foundation of industrial society. It was a matter of production. What do we have now that is an analog?
natgas?
was that a question, bob?
Again, this simply isn't a topic where you have any business disagreeing with me.
What ABOUT natgas, bob?
Trav, I frequently agree with you but I have to call you out on one minor point; the use of petrochemical fertilizers has been destroying our land for all the years it has been used. What is wrong with old fashioned shit? There is no shortage of it, and other than contamination from the pharmacological toxins consumed by it's producers, it is the best and most suited application for the overall end goal. We spend billions of fiat trying to get rid of it and billions more on petrochemical replacements. WHY? (OK, that may not be fair; I haven't discerned whether you have some land roots or have lived uptown all your life.)
You can be sure of one thing : he has been shitting all his life like the rest of us. In India you see cow dung every where in the villages on their mud walled huts...as what?...i don't know but it was an impressive eco-system use...
"What is wrong with old fashioned shit?"
Yields.
Newfangled shit has greater yields. Larger populations grow dependent on the output of ag-commerce.
The nuke dirty bomb scenario is going to fix the imbalance real soon.
what's wrong with it? It's not going to generate the crop yields of petrochem. That's all.
i've got no problem with it but some of the billons who have to go just might.
True enough. Organic crops have higher yields of vital nutritients.
No, they don't. Sorry.
They just don't have pesticides. That is not the same as having "more nutrients".
Not consuming stuff that will wreck your liver, kidneys, etc is *relatively* life extending.
Yes, but don't fall into the "sympathetic magic" trap, where one thing is good for one reason, therefor it must be good in ALL areas. All things have their pros and cons.
Trav maybe you should go tell Niagara Falls that it is just flowing the wrong way. Damn water is too stupid for its own good.
Relax man,
Try planting a garden first, making your own compost, harvesting crops and then get back to us.
Thank you.
G/L
Agreed. I have my own organic garden and use a bokashi composting system as well as a typical leaves/organic matter etc. The bokashi compost system creates a concentrated micronutrient tea that grows plants 4-5-6x bigger than your average "higher yields" fertilizer you're talking about.
It also brings the necessary microorganisms/worms that breathe new life into crappy old soil. You take all your food scraps, put them in the bin, let them ferment, drain it every 2-3 days and then soak your plants roots and literally in a few days they grow more and more and more. The average yield increase is about 3x and you're cycling nutrients from your soil, back into your soil. Typically it takes 6-8 months to get a traditional compost pile soil ready and balanced, but you can do the same work in 4 weeks or less with bokashi bran.
I can compost: bones, egg shells, whole chickens, beef, pork, noodles, vegetables, tofu... literally anything that's organic matter within a few weeks. You put it in the ground and within a month it's 100% raw organic soil. I'm growing potatoes right now over my previous compost pile that I buried and they've exploded.
I think we NEED to remove petrochemical fertilizers from our soil as the nutrient density of our food is 1/3rd what it was when our parents ate fresh fruits and vegetables from mass produced so called "fertilized" crops.
Instead of trading food, try starting an organic garden to really understand all that goes into it. It's clearly not as easy to grow enough food for 7 billion people without oil, but regardless it's going to run out and there will only be the classic, old, handy-dandy old fashioned agricultural modernizations we've created that don't rely on oil.
Good post. Excellent post, actually.
The problem that does exist, I think, is that if you've had occassion to speak with dedicated organic farmers, they admit it's simply not feasible to get nearly the yields per acre that make farming a commercially viable business, unless commercial fertilizers and pesticides are resorted to - and now, GM seed, also.
It's one thing if a farmer is growing crops for their family and maybe a dedicated list of premium-willing customers, like an organic restaurant or grocer.
It would be nice to see more R&D go into improving organic farming yields, which could save commercial farming from the menace that is Monsanto and their ilk, one day.
Also, few people talk about the serious threat of soil erosion, whereby we're losing not only quantity of topsoil, but quality of topsoil, and that's translating into less nutritionally less 'packed' fruits and vegetables. Potatoes, for example, have far fewer minerals in their skins than they did 40 years ago.
We do. Graphene solar. Genetically engineered fuel producing microbes. Space elevator based solar. Geothermal in places. SAFE nuclear designs utilizing thorium.
Energy is EVERYWHERE.
Easter Island was not a result of "too much population", but "too much government". Competing tribal chiefs just HAD to have bigger and bigger statues in their honor, until they used up everything. That is the ONLY thing that will kill off humanity. And it doesn't really kill us, just as it didn't really kill the Easter Islanders. It just made it more difficult to build ships.
Here you come with "oh that's impossible". That attitude is exactly what makes you a loser in ever aspect of your life.
Easter island was a result of overconsumption, Cliff.
As far as the rest of it, just say unicorns...bc that's what most of your pie in the sky stuff may as well be.
NONE of that is going to be available as a bridge technology anytime soon.
Space fucking elevator ROTFL
So go ahead, Trav, let's all in on where you go for nanotech information on the web?
Such a floater you are...
Men fucking flying through the sky like birds? Men on the fucking moon? ROFL
yeah jesus, wtf is it with people? who the fuck cares about the moon? just stop killing this perfectly good planet. that's a good start.
Except that never in 12,000 years has your scenario ever panned out on a global scale. Never. I vote with the historical record in favor of human necessity driving a solution to be found before you get your wish.
LFTR. You simply do not want to admit that solutions exist that are thwarted by politics, not science. China is building LFTR but the USSA can't seem to get it together to do much of anything these days except bail out bankers.
It is not a problem to be solved. Humans are good at solving problems. This is, however, a predicament in which we find ourselves. For those you find ways to adapt to the predicament or die. Many of us will die anyway. It is to the stage of "bargaining" many of us are stuck. Technology may have brought us to the dance. But don't expect technology to take you home.
No, it's your belief system that Billions Must Die, even when presented with a known technology that will solve the problem according to your own parameters as I did above -LFTR. You simply don't want a solution, so you selectively ignore one that will work in the time you say it needs to, and continue on your Doom Sermon.
You are the member of a Religion - reality cannot sway you from your Faith-based Belief system.
Take your cult shit back to TF. Douchinger isn't here to ban everybody that disagrees with this nonsense.
LFTR isn't a savior anymore than "nanotechnology" is from the earlier idiot.
CHINA is buiding LFTR, so the fuck what? China is also building tons of empty cities. Thorium has a place in the future but you cretins act as if the technology is great-to-go and it's just been sitting on the shelf perfected, a TURNKEY solution, when it's so far from that as to make the utterance of "LFTR" as a cloture tactic laughable.
As for whether history supports your position...wtf? There are MORE examples of circumstances overcoming man than the opposite. Rome fell, the black plague killed millions. The history of "solutions" by man is weak compared to the opposite.
I'm not sure what your point regarding history was...something about population not declining materially? It wasn't this overshot EVER until the oil age. If you can't look at a population graph versus time and SEE that, then you are incredibly myopic. Modern population = oil
I'll assume you are referring to me. I didn't say a thing about Nanotech being a savior.
All I did was ask 'where do you go to get your nanotech information on the web?'
The implication, which you seem to have proven, is that you aren't actually aware of any web resources concerning nanotechnology.
IOW -- you just talk shit.
"Suppose that science does NOT provide a ready alternative for oil...then what?"
Yes. I see your point. Best to start the genocide now, so we can be certain of the future. Of course the future will contain the knowledge that we are genocidal maniacs.
Speaking of normalcy bias, you are undoubtedly assuming that it is black and brown people that will be genocided. Suppose over-consuming whites were the target this time?
Have never heard genocide as being the logical conclusion to malthusian theory.
More foolish to believe that technology will infintiely increase crop yields and energy output.
Also there are more starving people today than ever before in history. More fat and happy people too, but the essential aspect of the malthusian trap is still valid.
Wherer he was dead wrong was believing wealthier societies would produce even more offspring, the opposite is true.
Also "if" the oil spigot were cut off tomorrow, die-off would ensue globally in a matter of days. No reason to be pessimistic but we are always hanging by a thread.
edit- http://www.bit.ly/fpvdf6
the technology did NOT catch up with the population curve. The green revolution of the 5-'s created the population curve. It is an anomoly.
Crowdsourced misinformation, sifting fact from fiction, is the enemy of the state or the PTB if you will.
All that happens when the "oil spigot is cut off" is that countries like the US and India, who import more oil than they export, will be proportionally impoverished. The US produces a LOT of food, and has A LOT of fertile farmland all over the place. Higher fuel prices will catalyze the return of the small, local farmer, as they are able to sell food much cheaper than large agro-business.
Thing is, oil isn't just "cut off" one day. It slowly gets more expensive, and forces those transitions, in addition to forcing investment in alternative energy production methods. Here's the part that makes the world turn--the price of the energy produced by such methods will inevitably go down with scale, especially so with renewable energy sources. That will wind up driving energy prices DOWN in the long run. Yes, we can't rely on oil forever. We will only rely on it until it is no longer economical, at which point it will be cast aside, like the charcoal and whale oil of yesteryear.
there's absolutely no rule that energy prices from alt.energy will go down, at least not from an EROI perspective, which is all that matters
You again prove you know NOTHING about economics. It's called economy of scale, moron.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_scale
Solar panels can now be had for $1/watt BEFORE subsidies. That puts the payback time absent subsidies at 4-5 years. These panels have a 20 year guaranteed lifetime.
You should go plant a garden and make your own compost, too.
Have fun.
G/L
As it so happens, I am doing worm culture compost right now, and am setting up an extensive system of container gardening. I had a nice big backyard farm a couple of years ago, but it was too hard on my back to maintain it.
Good, then work more and type less!
Physics trumps economics every time. Economics have abstracted humans so far away from reality that we can't see the ground any more.
ANd tell me, how do you communicate with this amazing almighty God, you call Physics? Do you ignore real phenomena, like real solar panels being produced right now for less that $1/watt? Or perhaps you sit around some glowing shrine and some "oracle" from the Oil Drum tells you all is lost no matter what and physics/thermodynamics/entropy says all must die next Thursday, and you should all do everything you can to talk down possible alternatives?
You are appropriately named, death worshipper. You have no place here.
reality doesn't care about economics, you freaking moron. Physics is physics.
Economics IS physics. The path of least resistance is a physical phenomenon that links DIRECTLY to economics.
But hey, it's ok if you are too stupid to understand that. You don't have any imagination, and can't see where anything can ever be different from how it is now. I can see historical versions of yourself mocking great ideas throughout history. Your jealousy is sickening.
Tell us again about how only blacks loot. Then tell us how it's ok when whites do it because they are just "finding" things in abandoned stores.
economics is physics?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You know, man, you've said some really stupid things before but I think this one takes the cake.
You'll have to search long and hard for examples of whites looting. Like I said, watch the WMT video from NO. You might see a couple white people in a sea of blacks.
Sorry that reality bitchslaps you again.
Looting happens everywhere; theft happens everywhere, even in Japan. Someone just looted $500,000 from the vault of Shinkin Bank in Kesennuma.
You consistently refer to the looting after Katrina, which basically tells me you're just as impressionable by the media as anyone else. It only depends on the message. If the message gives you a reason to hate black people without critically thinking about it, you're hooked just as quickly as Faux News ropes in an Obama hater.
What about the year before Katrina, after Hurricane Charley pummeled Punta Gorda Florida? Not too much media coverage about the looting, was there? Yet a simple Google search reveals that looting was a huge problem after Hurricane Charley, even with an additional 1500 National Guard troops sent there to establish order.
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/08/16/Weather/Thieves_plunder_in_Ch.shtml
And guess what? Punta Gorda Florida is 93% white.
http://www.usbeacon.com/Florida/Punta-Gorda.html
Even if the media did cover it, you probably wouldn't pay any attention to it, would you? White people looting in Florida doesn't fit the racist stereotypes that you blindly follow - so you'd flip the channel.
What about the infamous looting in Chile after last years earthquake? They aren't black, but, of course, the media didn't spend much time on that looting story either.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8542789.stm
Some people want to believe Obama is Hitler, so they willingly believe whatever story Glenn Beck puts in front of them. Some want to believe that Jesus hates homosexuals, so they believe anything Jerry Falwell says. Some people want to believe that the Fed is Satan, so they believe anything Tyler Durden says. And some people want to believe 9/11 was a false flag act of war on ourselves, so they believe anything from Alex Jones.
There are endless examples of people willingly brainwashing themselves when the message is "right" for them.
You're just another victim of media brainwashing. The only difference with you is your vulnerability: with you, it's race. Race is your catnip. In this regard, there is no difference between you and the Faux News viewer who thinks Obama is Hitler.
No doubt about it Trav, you're a smart guy. But this whole racism thing with you has really shown your ignorance, too. Don't be such a fucking idiot, it really subtracts from your intelligence. Outside of race issues, I think your posts are the sharpest on this forum.
punta gorda wasn't looted by people who live there.
Chile is hispanics, who tend to have 3-4x the crime rate of whites.
No catnip, man, just facts. Go to BJS and take a look at violent crime if you want to. Prison populations or whatever suits your fancy.
Check out SBPDL too
anyone hear Jeffrey Sachs lately? Just about sums up what Malthusian was saying in the 70s though he puts it in flufflier terms and mentions there isn't enough of anything for this many humans on earth, not just food. it's an interesting argument, though genocide to all is not the answer in my opinion
Tekhneek
the problem is 'planners' or loons thinking a women having 4 children is their problem rather than the mothers own decision. The problem actualy begins and ends between the delusional twats ears thinking in terms of peek oil or peek population and wants to central plan them away (eg. climate change)
I read an environmentalists blog who wanted a population cull yet he already had 3 children!!! The UN, WWF and Prince Phillip all think population is getting too large yet have any of them cut their own balls off (the Prince has born 3 offspring himself)?
The enviro then explained how Las Vegas had 'creeped' over the desert yet his own fuking house was built on that same desert. Desert has about 1 animal per every 10sq meters (ie. an ecologically lifeless and plantless zone). Yet man 'greens' the desert in Las Vegas and Dubai etc and that 10sq meters of desert then becomes full of plants, insects, birds, animals and full of life
The lessons of history are really crystal clear. Shut up and shut down the central planners, be it Govt or loonies in society. Let people decide their own destiny without interference. Everyone mind their own business (ie. social freedom not central planning) and the free market will do the rest/best and resolve all issues
and the free market will do the rest/best and resolve all issues
Yeah, that and God.
So you're thinking that endless fiat money combined with ABSOLUTE central control and planning is gonna fix it?
Sounds like just another form of worshiping an invisible deity...
I'm thinking that faith in anything that is going to solve all problems is misplaced. Sorry, I'm agnostic.
I don't think is going to end well....how we will know? The news will stop covering it? How are the gulf states doing after the spill, we don't know never hear anything about it.
I read ZH, it is the best out there.
google florida oil spill law and dead pelican.
Both blogs continue to track the situation.
Sometimes you have to dig to find info.
If you are depending on the Tylers to update, don't bother. It's not their gig.
The internet is a dangerous weapon; for fascist authoritarian governments.
It can also prove to be an advantageous weapon if you are skilled enough to disseminate misinformation correctly.
You should always utilize the most important defense that is more often than not ignored; common sense. Don't believe anything you read/hear/see without first using the aforementioned.
I give up...
Don't use common sense, use the other thing....intelligence based on rational thought using appropriate input data and juxtapose against historical correlations to dishonest propagations disseminated for blatantly obvious self-serving biases; or someshit.
i'm going with someshit.
Ha!
Daboling...in the dictionary again eh?
Yes...Webster.
Can you refer me to the dumpster in which your quip came from? Perhaps your mothers vagina?
They need to coat SFRs in your idiocy; because that shit is IMPENETRABLE.
Common sense simply isn't either common or sensible; look at the way you just dispense off-hand with rational thought and data. LOL.
Yeah FUCK facts, bob, just talk out of your ass; use your "gut" and those gambler's hunches. Fuck science, fuck evidence, fuck rationality. Your common sense has no bias whatsoever, of course.
Carry on, man, were I a psych guy I could make a career study of you.
+++
thanks for sharing
Well, thank dog you're grossly lacking said skill, eh?
because not a fucking thing has come out of your mouth for the past two weeks other than misinformation...really, calling it that is being highly generous; it's really been more bullshit than anything else.
And...yet...you...keep...coming. Short on brains, long on perseverance, a highly lethal combination.
....
What a world!
Tough to hide anything these days.
it's an 'ironic' world when you consider the Japanese Govt used 'green' as a prime heart-string in their Olympic bid saying it could be the "last Olympics" before we all fry... they lost the bid BTW, the Olympic Committee was not impressed with saving the planet!
so the same Jap Govt that wanted to save the environment made a series of pretty simple stupid errors that's turning their once great nation into a enviro and human wasteland
Govt, the dumbest institution on the planet
I thought TEPCO was a private...crony capitalistic enterprise...
Has googleEarth developed a "burried-just-beneath-the surface" precious metals locator yet?
Surely won't be long. Under whose orders, I'm not sure...but it won't be long.
Speaking of google, their neat little camera car made it's second appearance on my street in as many years. What gives? Do they know I frequent ZH?
* I live in a rural area.
Guess we know there's something of interest burried just beneath the surface of your rural lot. Drive-by x 2? Hopefully its just because they're confused by Dapper and rural, and just wanted a second look?
A visit by the google streetmap car is almost always followed by a Z-backscatter van. They map your guns and PMs.
And your network data!
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/05/14/us-google-wifi-idUSTRE64D60E20...
Then they steal your orgones with the suck mobile. Cleverly disguised as a Hoovering cleaner. Once you are powerless they get your Precious Bodily Fluids.
They are tryly diabolical.
....you sure it belongs to them???
They're going to have to go pretty deep to find me...I'm 8 ft. underground and well insulated! Uh, hold on....there's someone at the door...
They're there to talk about your student loans...
on Fri, 03/25/2011 - 18:59
#1101530
To be honest with you, I believe this weekend the Japanese govt. will not have this situation controlled. In fact I believe that once it's 100% verified (they know already, the've known since last week) that reactor 3 has broken through it's containment and the core is leaking, they will abandon the situation to think up another option. And during that time nobody will be sprying water and nobody will be keeping cool all 6 reactors. They will have to because it would have become to dangerous for the workers to be at the nuclear power plant, 10,000 times background radiation is what burned those workers who stepped into the water. There's a difference in going to die for your country in one swell swoop of action than waiting your turn and watching every 50 men and women coming out slowly losing their body functions and seeing what will happen to you the longer you stay not at the reactor but even in the area.
These men and women will break and run and no amount of bushido code or whatever can change that. And remember, the govt. over their is lying about how much the radiation is in the area, it has to be at least 2,000 times the yearly level. This is being irradiated at this concentration or more every second and every minute and every hour of the day they stay in the area. I wouldn't be surprise that all of them don't have radiation sickness right now.
@Rusty Shorts / Buck Johnson
Well said. They've never had it under control and they won't get it under control. Unbelievable that more media attention and outrage has not focused on this problem; the hopeful result of said outrage being the move to bring newer, better solutions to the fore. The Japanese have gotten a pass on thier handling because many people think Japan is a superior technological power. Japan's crony capitalism already ruined it's banking system, now this crony capitalism will make major parts of the country uninhabitable.
Well said. Japan is finished.
Agree, but they've been "finished" in the past and bounced back nicely most recently after World War II. My best guess is they'll learn to live with a 50-100 mile exclusion zone and need 10-20 years to rebuild everything lost.
You don't get it.
The water supply is poisned and the reactors are completely unstable still.
get it...water supply = poison (at LEAST 30 years)
Japan is dead.
Don't be so idealistic.
"many people think Japan is a superior technological power"
I was certain of it. It's not true.
It WAS. Until they embraced Keynesianism. Then they hollowed out their economy to the point that a single natural disaster is enough to literally kill off their entire economy/population.
Don't be surprised to see Northern Japan completely depopulated 12 months from now, and all of Honshu depopulated in ten years time, with the southern islands either with a new form of government (hardcore free markets) or reduced to third world status.
+1480 for the first 'graph. The Japanese signed a suicide pact out of ignorance and they did it so late in the Keynesian game that they almost look stupid. They did the same thing coming late to the table of imperialism (once it went out of fashion in most of the West) and then over did it. We can see these parallels throughout their history.
WTF for #2. All of Honshu in 10 years?? In the time I've been reading ZH, I always make a point to read everything you say because it is so well worded and thought out, tmosley, but that is seriously out of left field. In my darkest nightmares (and I am a grizzled, frothing pessemist) I have flirted with the idea that MAYBE the Tohoku coast will see a significant exodus for the next 5 -10 years. I'm not knocking your vision, so don't get me wrong. I just don't see it happening. But your #2 'graph would make for an AWESOME fiction book.
If you want to wager 100 oz of .999 Ag, let me know and we can calendar watch until 3-26-2021 and see where Honshu is at.
Think about the size of the Chernobyl exclusion zone. Then think about the fact that this catastrophe is likely to be 3-6 times larger, and was combined with a major earthquake and tsunami. Then think about the configuration of the storage pools--100 feet in the air. They would have to build four buildings somewhat smaller than the Great pyramid of Giza in order to entomb them. The work required to do that would require the sacrifice of a large proportion of their population as workers, and a huge area is already unlivable. The prevailing winds MIGHT save the Westernmost stretches of the island, but that wind doesn't always run that way. If those reactors aren't entombed before the next monsoon season, which reaches Japan in June, this will likely be the result. I wouldn't be surprised if Russia and Sakhalin saw fallout.
They bet the future of their nation on an inferior reactor design, and lost. We will see how high the stakes were for them. One thing is certain--this isn't going to go away. This makes me sad because I love Japan. I love the people, the culture, their products, everything but the shitty government, corrupt police/officials, and autogenocidal central bank. Sadly, Japan is finished, at least the current chapter in their history is. Perhaps they can revive their proud heritage. If they stick with the current model, it's game over for good.
The only thing that made me happy about seeing your reply is that I realized there is someone out there more pessemistic than myself. I really hope you are wrong, but all I'm doing is hoping. I may be too wrapped up in this to be commenting/or judging it rationally. Everthing you say is true, especially about the storage pools. I can't even bring myself to think about them, let alone visualize glass-half-empty scenarios. I too have a love affair with Japan...so much so that I have invested my adult life to learning the language and history and have significant stake in business and property there (west Japan...not north or Tokyo.) Their government has been a blight on the people to the point where I would occasionally find myself nodding in agreement at some of the talking points of their (uber-contrarian) Communist Party, for God's sake.
I am pinning hopes on favorable wind patterns, a light monsoon, no typhoons, and no more explosions...as I type I realize that all my hopes are pinned on hot air...literally. Oh, what the Hell. I'm going to go find the bottom of a Sapporo bottle and pray for expat land of choice...it all looked so good a month ago...
Put some FRNs where your mouth is: http://www.worldvision.org
They're accepting donations for Japan's relief effort(s).
I'll do one better wise guy. As soon as my contract is up in May, I'm flying into Narita and driving up there to rebuild homes. You want to join me? Didn't think so. Not to worry. Your random charity of choice does need your FRNs for their "operating costs."
Please rethink your plan. Although altruistic, it's suicide.
The real readings are now coming in from the people:
http://japan.failedrobot.com
LOTS of 0.5 and 0.6 microsieverts per hour ( µSv / h) reading are now showing up in Tokyo.
Get out now!
.6 is 3x the average rate on the planet.
In fact there are places people live where there is substantially more radiation than this. Entire cities in fact. Anything at high altitude.
Sending charity to them will have the same effect it has had in Africa for decades--it only supports the ponzi government. Don't do it. Rand had it right when she advocated sinking international aid ships.
I've been waiting to see how this entombment will be engineered. It will be massive undertaking. I just assumed that the worlds best have been designing this and the Japanese are just making a show to buy time for this design.
The Japanese are very smart. I am sure they can design and build an entombment system that will last forever, or until they have another earthquake.
wait...is this the same tmosley who is a well-known idiot?
The guy has been bitchslapped every which way from sunday on nearly every topic I've seen him post comment on.
what he says is going to happen, will not happen. You will be getting a brick of Ag; no fucking way he's taking that bet. People around here like to talk a lot of shit and feel somehow comfortable making embarrassingly hysterical predictions. And when these predictions fall flat on their face (again), they just come back as if it never happened.
Well add me to the idiot list. I think there is a chance Tokyo will be evacuated. I'd put the probability today at 10%. But I think I might go higher in another week.
Tell us more about the size of the "negroid brain", Trav.
You are not an authority on idiocy, idiot. You have ZERO credibility on this subject, and only have credibility with like minded death worshippers on your "eternal depression as a result of Peak Oil" theory. You pissed away your credibility on THIS subject when you said this was "no big deal", and berated everyone who said otherwise. Now people are dead and dying. Fuck off.
wait a minute, you actually didn't know that there were average cranial size and brain weight differences between the races, did you?
LOL. A true case in point of the illegitimacy of "conventional wisdom." This may shock you, but much of what you've come to accept as fact by virtue of mass subscription simply isn't true.
You ARE an authority on idiocy...its high priest if you will. The best you can do is claim I said "no big deal," and hope that nobody notices that you're lying.
Here's a hint, moron. There is no such thing as race. You see skin color, but black africans have more genetic diversity than all the other "races" of the earth combined. To say that all blacks are the same is the same as saying all humans are the same. And they are.
Also, blacks loot, whites find. Google it.
Please stop feeding him...Please.
GFD you are stupid.
Are you aware that forensic pathologists can identify race from a skeleton? No you sure aren't.
Skin color is a minor, superficial aspect.
People like you always try to muddy shit with this genetic diversity crap among races versus between. Well, the same is true amongst humans versus chimps; that makes you a fucking chimp.
All humans are the same, LOL. What can be done with an idiot such as you?
Not my fault whites don't loot, man...or asians. You like blacks so much, go live with them. Get out of your whitopia and go...
Uhh, you are the one conflating all blacks as a single group, when they are in fact many, many groups, each of which carry a greater genetic distinction than whites and asians.
Whites do loot, you dumb shit. They just don't call it looting when they do it.
http://graphics2.snopes.com/katrina/graphics/looting.jpg
And the Japanese loot too. The police just don't do anything about it: http://www.blacktokyo.com/?p=7649
But don't trust those filthy retarded blacks. How about your good old boys at Fox Memphis? http://www.myfoxmemphis.com/dpps/news/looting-rears-its-head-in-tsunami-...
You are a fucking moron if you think members of the same species don't behave the same way under the same conditions. Get the fuck out of here, you dumbshit racist moron. You give everyone here a bad name with your douchebaggery. Just go die alone somewhere.
You got one example of a couple of japs and one of a couple of whites.
How many for blacks...a couple THOUSAND?
people DON'T BEHAVE THE SAME WAY UNDER THE SAME CONDITIONS, you retarded FUCK.
You behave like an idiot under conditions which others sail right through. All behavior is not shared, you obtuse idiot.
Look at the homicide rate breakdown in the US against race...or do it anywhere in the world. Crime, IQ, illegitimate births, go on and on. Or, even better, take a look at some studies of separated twins, longitudinal studies of cross-race adoption. GO AHEAD, I fucking absolutely DARE you to.
You are perhaps the most blatantly stupid person here, you fucking groveling uncle tom punk.
Post-WW II, the US built up Japan when China went Communist. We (the US) put Japan on . . . a gold standard. Japan busily started cutting taxes and regulations. 35-40 years of boom followed. Come the Plaza Accord etc., they were forced to accept an overvalued yen to help out the US, and thus began their bubble and decline. My guess is that the US doesn't need Japan anymore and as it lacks any indigenous signif source of energy, it had better find some real fast or prepare to accept its fate, as TMosley perceptively suggests. Or, better, it could go back to a gold standard and soar again.
Do they still have the maps to Yamashita's gold or did Black Eagle already make off with it?
There's still plenty of gold in the Phillipines. The problem is, most of it that remains is in places very difficult to reach, and even more difficult to transport tons of materials out of.
The wild card for me is the length of time before the complex is finally sealed off. Could this go on for months? What will seasonal changes to the weather bring? Can extreme radioactivity in the ocean be picked up and desposited elsewhere? In areas where the radiation exposure is low, what will months of exposure mean? What happens when people actually start ingesting this stuff? Will migrating sea life carry this all over the Pacific? There may be some significant "unknown unknowns".
We are in a new situation. No one has experienced it. This is not a Chernobyl. There are no experts. It appears that TEPCO has no plan at this point. Nuclear "experts" may know a lot about properly functioning plants, but they know very little about the consequences of this situation. And nuclear "experts" clearly have a stake in nuclear power. This event may end nuclear power forever. They are hopelessly biased.
improvisation does not seem a strong point.
Deer in a headlight !!
This is truly offensive to those who have been in ground combat. It displays a shameful, cowardly, and ignorant misunderstanding of the horrors of war, the sheer amount of "gumption" it takes to engage in it, and the forever life changing effects it has if you survive it.
I usually do not trust, listen to, or respond to anyone who uses the phrase "to be honest with you".
Perhaps it was written for speed and convenience and not well thought through, otherwise it just represents a complete failure of understanding. In any case, it is offensive beyond words.
hmmmm.
I've fought in a war with boots on the ground.
I'm not in the least offended by much of anything after my experience (except for Obama who's benevolent silence has resulted in wanton maleficence to America). What are you referring to in specificity?
"There's a difference in going to die for your country in one swell swoop of action than waiting your turn and watching every 50 men and women coming out slowly losing their body functions and seeing what will happen to you the longer you stay"
Who wants to do a suicide mission, if the mission isn't even assured of success?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZgKo46X8CI
What's the difference?
I don't believe anyone has claimed to have things under control. But they have been muddling through rather admirably. They've managed to keep this cool enough for long enough that the chance of a melt-through down to the water table and subsequent explosion is almost nil by now. It still sucks for the local area, but that is good news for the rest of the world.
The 3 cores melted more than a week ago ... at the point in time where the roofs are lifted off the buildings from hydrogen blast (#1 ), the core is already 80% melted. 100% meltdown occurs shortly thereafter (within hours), as the core pool boils dry.
The internal explosion in #2 signifies 80% meltdown ... #2 did not vent due to release valve failure (hence no hydrogen explosion), so it extruded under pressure the molten core from the primary vessel into bulb drywell in the bottom.
glad you know the chance of melt through is almost nil. that's important news and you are right to share it. i'd let tepco and the japanese government know too if i were you.
dup
Personally I never thought the chances of a China Syndrome were all that high....but it's not clear that the ultimate outcome has been changed, just delayed. For me it's been 'core on the floor' with very bad contamination over a wide area of Japan, coupled with a smoky waste fire with similar spread of contamination, that is the worry. The fact is, loss of cooling is loss of cooling, and there isn't anything fundamentally different about the situation today than on March 12, except for the extent of area already impacted. As far as I can tell they still don't even know the conditions of these things, or what could be going wrong from hour to hour.
Maybe they keep the lids on all of these 'hot pots' for the next year or ten years...but if they don't they heat right back up to the crisis point in a matter of hours. Again, each of the cores still has several MW of energy from decay heat, and will in a month....months....you get the idea. You're ALWAYS one shift away from a meltdown.
So what in tarnation is the dadburn plan exactly here anyway? They said the plant will be decommissioned. Oh, really now...how is that supposed to happen?
They are acting like they'll just gradually, incrementally build what amounts to a new plant, just not a power plant. A radwaste cooling plant. But how long is that going to take? And why don't we know the conditions of major systems even today? TEPCO is speculating, contradicting itself, and/or being downright wrong just about every day. Look at the Kyodo News update I posted a few minutes back (you probably already did). Not encouraging from my standpoint.
Somebody needs to take this in hand and get the 'task force' steering committee into a public venue, at least every other meeting, or the echo chamber effect is going to allow years of radioactive release here. Or worse.
"core on the floor" ... yes.
#3 & #2 - core on the floor for more than a week.
Various emissions of black smoke past week - hard to tell what is burning.
Rest assured, if the core is on the floor, it is tunneling through the concrete ...and has been for more than a week!
Or not, as various other posts have explained in the past two weeks. But whether the melt-down is tunneling is not really the issue. The issue is whether it is hot enough to tunnel all the way to the water table.
"Spalling is a physical process of the breakdown of surface layers of masonry (typically concrete) which crumble into small pebble-like pieces in response to high temperatures and/or mechanical pressure. The physical appearance of spalling may also include striated lines, discoloration of the masonry and pitting or rough texture to the concrete that remains attached to the slab. Spalling is caused by heating, mechanical pressure, or both. This heat and/or pressure causes uneven expansion of the materials that make up the concrete (such as sand and gravel), the reinforcing steel and the concrete mix, or the surface and subsurface layers of the concrete. Alternatively, the heat may release the water in the concrete. Pressure created by rapid changes in temperature, such as application of cold water to the heated concrete surface during firefighting operations, can also cause spalling. These processes break the bond that holds the solids together and thus cause the concrete to crumble."
Jim---I really have to believe the Japanese have shared the information at least with their allies and that global teams are feverishly designing a method to encapsulate or decomission this time bomb. Nearby countries (Korea and China for two....will not tolerate inaction and I doubt the United States would either). I think the low percieved efforts are just to calm the public and that shit is happenning behind the scenes.
You mean that you trust Obama to do something other than play golf and grin like a possum?
You really have no clue how a Chief Executive Officer controls and runs a corporation do you? All that the U.S. has done with and for Japan since the earthquake has happened at the President's direction.
Do not get misled by if you can't see it (Presidential activity) if doesn't exist kind of thinking.
The reactors are all under control. In fact, all but one are now being cooled by fresh water. Only one is still being cooled with seawater, and it will likely switch to fresh water this weekend.
The water the contractors stepped in, and then ignored their dosimeters for three hours, was likely purposefully vented from the reactor 3 core to limit steam pressure and not from loss of containment. Some of the rods in the reactor may be damaged due to overheating, but no reactor meltdown and loss of containment.
Puff puff pass dude.