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Government Admits Health Care Bill is a "Tax" ... Oh, and the Bill Tracks and Taxes Physical Gold Transactions
Even the government is now admitting that the health care bill is a tax.
As the New York Times pointed
out on July 16th:
When Congress required most
Americans to obtain health insurance or pay a penalty, Democrats denied
that they were creating a new tax. But in court, the Obama
administration and its allies now defend the requirement as an exercise
of the government’s “power to lay and collect taxes.”
And that power, they say, is even more sweeping than the federal power
to regulate interstate commerce.
Administration officials say
the tax argument is a linchpin of their legal case in defense of the
health care overhaul and its individual mandate, now being challenged
in court by more than 20 states and several private organizations.
Under the legislation signed by President Obama in March, most
Americans will have to maintain “minimum essential coverage” starting
in 2014. Many people will be eligible for federal subsidies to help
them pay premiums.
In a brief defending the law, the Justice
Department says the requirement for people to carry insurance or pay
the penalty is “a valid exercise” of Congress’s power to impose taxes.
Congress can use its taxing power “even for purposes that would
exceed its powers under other provisions” of the Constitution, the
department said. For more than a century, it added, the Supreme Court
has held that Congress can tax activities that it could not reach by
using its power to regulate commerce.
And as ABC notes
today, the bill contains a stealth provision requiring tracking - and
thus tax reporting - of physical gold transactions:
[The health care legislation contains] a
scarcely noticed tack-on provision to the law that puts gold coin
buyers and sellers under closer government scrutiny.***
Section
9006 of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act will amend the
Internal Revenue Code to expand the scope of Form 1099. Currently, 1099
forms are used to track and report the miscellaneous income associated
with services rendered by independent contractors or self-employed
individuals.
Starting Jan. 1, 2012, Form 1099s will become a
means of reporting to the Internal Revenue Service the purchases of all
goods and services by small businesses and self-employed people that
exceed $600 during a calendar year. Precious
metals such as coins and bullion fall into this category and
coin dealers have been among those most rankled by the change.
This provision, intended to mine what the IRS deems a vast reservoir of
uncollected income tax, was included
in the health care legislation ostensibly as a way to pay for it.
***
So every time a member of the public sells
more than $600 worth of gold to a dealer, [Diane Piret, industry
affairs director for the Industry Council for Tangible Assets, a trade
association representing an estimated 5,000 coin and bullion dealers
in the U.S.] said, the transaction
will have to be reported to the government by the buyer.
***
The ICTA's Piret says identity theft is another concern because
criminals may set up shops specifically to extract personal information
that would accompany the filing out of a 1099.
The office of
the National Taxpayer Advocate, a citizen's ombudsman within the IRS,
issued a report June 30 that said the new rule "may present significant
administrative challenges to taxpayers and the IRS."
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Healthcare - since when does the government know how to set the price of anything? The government is not a business and has no idea of what it takes to turn a profit. Since they seem never to be concerned about it, they never consider unintended consequences, and ancillary effects of their wonderful plans. My bet is that this will end badly.
Gold - these new rules may be a setup to price manipulation. At some point greed and fear will steer people into and out of gold. If you can make rules to punish people for transacting in this PM and are yourself big enough to move large amounts of it at any moment then you control the whole market.
Stun Gun
This country is a fucking financial prison. Forced labor is the only way to pay for it.
I just can't believe this. What the hell is going on? Now they're going to track my gold purchases. Fuck this administration. Fuck president Obama. I am so sick of these idiots. Now they want our gold. This is lunacy, madness. Yeah, lets destroy coin dealers, tie their asses up in 1099's. Absolutely sickening. This is why I root for a colapse of the financial system on a daily basis. I want these people to burn, I want their system to burn.
IMHO, the nationalization of the health care system was never about health care...it was about raising taxes...the health care spin was how it was sold to us. Why do you think it didn't matter what the details of the bill were just as long as it passed?
We weren't supposed to hit the point where the gov is paying out more SS/Medicare money until about 2017 but with the help of our current economic implosion and the resulting layoffs/early retirements causing massive drops in the SS/Medicare/income tax stream we passed that point a few months ago.
Life was good as long as our leaders could tap the extra cash flow the SS/Medicare tax stream, but those days are gone. They need another cash cow to keep the good times rolling and stall the inevitable meltdown. The new health care tax stream replaces the old SS/Medicare tax stream and buys some time.
Add to this new tax the loss of the Bush tax cuts, the blizzard of new taxes that will hit in 2011+, the TARP money and the Fed's covert efforts to save the banks, the stock market and monetize our imploding money supply and you might get the idea Washington is actually serious about saving the universe.
Never mind the fact that those added taxes will drive consuption down and keep our economy depressed and unemployment high for years to come.
The next question is...what are we going to get for all the health care tax money we will pay?
I guarantee it won't be squat.
Yes. Our leaders may be smiling and appear confident that all is well but they are very, very worried.
Americans are too well armed.
I can't find the posts but I have also been stating that the health care takeover was always meant as a tax increase. We will all pay more and we will all get less, and the difference will accrue to the Treasury.
P.S. Americans are well armed, but there is no "too well" armed.
Sorry chaps - work in 5...so can't chat
But i'll raise you the UK's Proceeds of Crime Act 2002!
Unless you can 'prove' you came by your wealth legitimately - the state will relieve you of it - permanently!
Now what if our 2 countries had a 'special' relationship - and a shared vision for the future?
Oh crap!!!
Does pillage and plunder count as coming by wealth legitimately? If not, it is going to be a cold day for the pirate and the castle dweller of old.
Seriously, how does England account for the wealth of so many families who received their land by relieving the previous landowner of it through force several generations ago? If they count that as coming by your wealth legitimately, then shouldn't the thugs who rob and steal be so considered as well?
the more this shit happens the more i think this government needs to fuck itself. this coming from a republican that feels people should pay more taxes. but fuck, this shit is so pointless and ridiculous.
the more this shit happens the more i think this government needs to fuck itself. this coming from a republican that feels people should pay more taxes. but fuck, this shit is so pointless and ridiculous.
"Everyone needs and deserves healthcare. Healthcare is not free. So...people have to pay for it. Waah, waah, waah...stop crying. Other nations do it, and do it right, so can we."
But we are not doing it right.
This 'helps' a few people (maybe). Consider that those that fall below the line of being able to afford it. There will be all sorts of paperwork that will have to be filled out in order to prove you can't afford it and that you will get some sort of grant. Of course many won't know how to do it and that will leave those that know how to scam a system to plunder away.
Many (if not all) other nations have a single pay point system. But we certainly don't want to do that. Or select any other existing model out there. Because first and foremost, we must protect the profits of the insurance industry.
I have a friend that works for a very large health care provider. They are collectively rubbing their hands in glee. It's a 'captured' customer base.
The supreme court is going to fry the justice lawyers. I would really like to be in the court room for this one.
The Administration was warned about the fundemental issues relating to the constitutionality of many provisions in the bill.
Now, if the lawyers bringing suit are smart, they will force the Administration to produce the actual costs pertaining to the Governments health care exposure for Medicare and Medicaid, and how the new health bill addesses the government obligations and costs.
It will become abundantly clear that the Government has mismanged Medicare and Medicaid, and by doing so has created a cost structure beyond the states ability to pay.
So during the case, the constitionality of the new law will be the primary suit, but the evidence will show that the states can no longer afford ever increasing federally mandated medical costs, when these costs are only capped at the federal level through the power of deficit spending.
This could set a precidence on states obligations regarding federal mandated entitlements.
Mark Beck
Very informative , thanks GW.
Not sure how significant the whole taxation issue is. There's probably plenty of places willing to swap bullion for cash north and south of the border. What's a trip to Mexico cost? A couple hundred bucks? May be cheaper for some folks to fly or drive to Canada.
Good luck trying to get your gold (or silver, or fiat for that matter) through the body scanners at the airport/border!
I hope you didn't think they are putting the body and luggage scanners there to find one terrorist bomb each decade?
We are no longer living in the days of "Papers, please" and "Anything to declare?". Now it is biometric identification and full body x-rays.
The day that every major border point has a scanner is the same day they will confiscate and outlaw gold.
Stuffing the piggy bank.
Sec. 5112. Denominations, specifications, and design of coins(a) The Secretary of the Treasury may mint and issue only the
following coins:
(1) a dollar coin that is 1.043 inches in diameter.
(2) a half dollar coin that is 1.205 inches in diameter and
weighs 11.34 grams.
(3) a quarter dollar coin that is 0.955 inch in diameter and
weighs 5.67 grams.
(4) a dime coin that is 0.705 inch in diameter and weighs 2.268
grams.
(5) a 5-cent coin that is 0.835 inch in diameter and weighs 5
grams.
(6) except as provided under subsection (c) of this section, a
one-cent coin that is 0.75 inch in diameter and weighs 3.11 grams.
(7) A fifty dollar gold coin that is 32.7 millimeters in
diameter, weighs 33.931 grams, and contains one troy ounce of fine
gold.
(8) A twenty-five dollar gold coin that is 27.0 millimeters in
diameter, weighs 16.966 grams, and contains one-half troy ounce of
fine gold.
(9) A ten dollar gold coin that is 22.0 millimeters in diameter,
weighs 8.483 grams, and contains one-fourth troy ounce of fine gold.
(10) A five dollar gold coin that is 16.5 millimeters in
diameter, weighs 3.393 grams, and contains one-tenth troy ounce of
fine gold.
(11) A $50 gold coin that is of an appropriate size and
thickness, as determined by the Secretary, weighs 1 ounce, and
contains 99.99 percent pure gold.
Pray tell all ye mathematician. How much money is inside the piggy bank if you drop 11 coins in? One of each.
Are piggy banks not especially built for saving (hoarding) money?
And when you crack them you get to count it all up.
there is gonna be hue black market for goods and services above 600.
A "physical gold transaction"?
When you use a quarter at the grocery store as part of settling the charge, are you engaging in a "physical copper transaction", or are you just circulating money?
Money is defined at USC 31.5112. The quarters are there. The dimes too. And the Eagles. And even a large Buffalo. All United States money is legal tender. Federal reserve notes are also legal tender.
When you use money as money, i.e. circulating it, are you thought to engage in some "physical metal transaction" or as it may be a "physical rag paper transaction".
I don't have any problem recognizing that a bar stamped with a weight and fineness traded in exchange for money or legal tender or both is a "physical gol transaction".
However, if you plunk some Eagles and some rag paper on a counter and wish to circulate the entire pile, don't you just add up face, and also price the transaction at hand. Please tell me that it is not illegal to offer all monies described at at USC 31.5112 into circulation as money?
The store probably wouldn't accept it. You would owe tax on the profit between purchase price and the face value the store would grant you. They won't take on the responsibility / liability for calculating that profit and collecting that tax at the time you are buying something.
you don't get it.
there is no profit between purchase price and face. (a loss perhaps)
I never suggested the current retail checkout counter was the point of sale terminal.
Good thing for us, there aren't going to be any stores, cept ChinaMart. Welcome to garage sale nation!
"Say, I'll give you $50 for that big screen HDTV."
you get it.
In twenty years, "American medicine" will be a punchline. Or a curse.
Everyone needs and deserves healthcare. Healthcare is not free. So...people have to pay for it. Waah, waah, waah...stop crying. Other nations do it, and do it right, so can we.
Where did the apparatchik go? poisenfrog
look at it this way.. it seems that jan 1 2012 is when the gov and banks will give up trying to hold down gold and as it skyrockets they want to grab a lot of that profit
but who will have any (real) money to buy at those prices?? China??
Gold is the only "real" money. Why trade it for paper and ink?
Look to the gold buyers who set up in motel rooms to be one of the main targets of this new 1099 explosion. Common folks selling their wares will be getting those 1099s. Then you won't be able to sell the family jewels to buy food and get away with it. Expect a lot more of the gold buying as gold goes up in price. A brilliant idea on the part of the gov't. What's a body to do now?
Cash for gold will go underground (like drug dealers). The spreads will be worse than they already are. Welcome to Bartertown.
Yep, in all honesty they just did Gold and Silver a favor. Not for the bullion dealers mind you, but private parties they did.
Most of you will probably be fighting on the Middle-Eastern front by the time this takes affect; so don't sweat it.
Phuck you poisonfrog you don't know what I will do.
the frog projects on others its nihilistic acceptance. although, ask a martyr (or the founders) if they'd do it all over again, knowing their fate, but not the outcome.
You can't know the outcome. At some point it becomes merely the intersection of principles and fate. They used to call it courage.
Agree. Where does that intersection occur, and do enough reach it at the same time to galvanize such meeting to meaningful action? I have enormous respect for the founders, but their intersection is a matter of historical record, while ours is yet unfolding. It's a personal journey. My gut tells me they want a violent reaction to divide and marginalize us further.
From the looks of things I would say liberty is a fading light. Broke out a few times in history especially here for maybe 150 years. Today though I don't think anything can stop the tyranny coming our way.
I will never submit to to this law. The ability to buy and sell coins outside of state control is my last refuge. If this is denied then -- Give me Liberty or Give me Death
Fuck Obama, fuck his owners and fuck his IRS.You can sell your gold coins safely and securily with no paper trail in Bangkok, Singapore, Jakarta and Hong Kong.
It's already been denied. You will do nothing but complain.
If you're really bold - you'll walk around with a sign
for a few hours; that will change things.
The constitution states that only gold and silver can be considered money. This bill is trying to put a tax on money. I don't think the supreme court will accept that. We'll see, but I suspect it will be challenged, so the outcome at this point is not certain.
Interesting point. Any tax would apply only to any profit you make - just like on a stock transaction. So how do they plan for you and the IRS to reconcile the purchase price with the sales price - like they do with stock tansactions. They can do that with stock because you sell the stock through the same outfit that sold it to you (unless you take possession of the certificate). With PMs, they can be bought at one place and sold at another. How does the IRS know that they specific gold piece you sold today was the same one purchased 12 years ago, to know what the basis is for calculating profit?
They debase the currency so nominal asset values go up.
Then they tax you on the debasement.
you should never sell real estate and never sell gold.
The system is F*ed. My wife went for a routine check up the other day. The clinic billed the insurance company $225. The insurance company paid $68 with the negotiated rate. Clinics overbill knowing they will get undercut by the insurance. I used to hope/think a person could show up with cash and get a good deal. That thought was idiotic. A person with cash would have paid $225 for a $68 service. Its broke.
Since the clinic accepted the insurance plan your wife had, it is obviously a provider to her insurance company. The clinic's contract with your wife's insurance company forbids it from accepting cash rather than insurance from patients who have insurance with that company. If your wife had insurance that the clinic did not accept (was not a provider for), or if your wife had no insurance at all, the clinic would probably have gladly negotiated a reduced, cash, price.
An insurance company enters into a contract with a specific number of doctors in a particular area. The doctors get patients, and the insurance company gets to control the price that the doctor charges. If the doctor is allowed to accept cash from the patient, the insurance company loses control of what the doctor charges. So it prohibits cash payments in lieu of insurance payments.
I have worked in a hospital. They give you a special rate for cash customers, I mean patients. Your wife would have paid $223. Seriously, like $100
Just like the 75% off racks that some clothing stores run 365 days a year. No one pays retail. Even if you are paying cash, you can negotiate down to ins. co. rates. We have a local dentist that advertises no insurance plans accepted, his cash or credit card only rates are about 65% of most other dentists.
I change monie into precious metals because I should be earning the latter in the first place. The system is doing the opposite for me. I should not be taxed for righting the fascist US government's wrong. I should not be taxed on my living wage. I should not be taxed for my savings ie wealth either.
Forget for a moment the possible bad outcomes of it (French revolution), but I think it may seriously be time for an armed revolution or at least lynching a senator or two. Thoughts?
why some senators...shoot that ROCKEFELLER
Do you realize how close you are to being arrested?
Do you think that "the authorities" don't know you?
You might think about going into stealth mode.