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Government Nanny Censoring "Conspiracy Theories" is Also Responsible for Letting Bush Era Torture and Spying Conspiracies Go Unpunished
Cass
Sunstein was the main adviser to the Obama White House advocating
against prosecuting Bush administration officials for torture, illegal
spying, and other crimes.
As constitutional expert professor Jonathan Turley wrote in 2008:
Close
Obama adviser (and University of Chicago Law Professor) Cass Sunstein
recently rejected the notion of prosecuting Bush officials for crimes
such as torture and unlawful surveillance.
***
The exchange with Sunstein was detailed by The Nation’s Ari Melber. Melber wrote that Sunstein rejected any such prosecution:
Prosecuting
government officials risks a “cycle” of criminalizing public service,
[Sunstein] argued, and Democrats should avoid replicating retributive
efforts like the impeachment of President Clinton — or even the “slight
appearance” of it.Sunstein did add that “egregious crimes should not be ignored,” according to one site, click here.
It is entirely unclear what that means since some of us take the
views that any crimes committed by the government are egregious. Those
non-egregious crimes are precisely what worries many lawyers who were
looking for a simple commitment to prosecute crimes committed by the
government.
***
The main concern with Sunstein’s reported comment
is how well they fit within the obvious strategy of the Democratic
party leaders: to block any prosecution of either President Bush or his
aides for crimes while running on those crimes to maintain and expand
their power in Washington. The missing component in this political
calculus is, of course, a modicum of principle.
***
Here’s
the problem about “avoiding appearances.” There seems ample evidence
of crimes committed by this Administration, in my view. To avoid
appearances would require avoiding acknowledgment of those alleged
crimes: precisely what Attorney General Mukasey has been doing by
refusing to answer simple legal questions about waterboarding.
How
about this for an alternative? We will prosecute any criminal conduct
that we find in any administration, including our own. Now, that
doesn’t seem so hard. There is no sophistication or finesse needed.
One need only to commit to carry out the rule of law.
The
combination of Obama’s vote to retroactively grant immunity for the
telecoms and Sunstein’s comments are an obvious cause for alarm. We
have had almost eight years of legal relativism by both parties. For a
prior column on the danger of relativism in presidents, click here A little moral clarity would be a welcomed change.For further discussion of the Sunstein statements, click here and here.
See also this interview with Keith Olbermann:
Former constitutional lawyer Glenn Greenwald points out:
The aforementioned Obama friend, Cass Sunstein [is also the] protector of Bush lawbreakers, advocate of illegal Bush spying and radical presidential powers, and fierce critic of blogs as "anti-democratic".
Sunstein is also the guy who proposed that the government use its power to suppress "conspiracy theories".
As Greenwald wrote in January:
Cass
Sunstein has long been one of Barack Obama's closest confidants.
Often mentioned as a likely Obama nominee to the Supreme Court,
Sunstein is currently Obama's head of the Office of Information and
Regulatory Affairs where, among other things, he is responsible for
"overseeing policies relating to privacy, information quality,
and statistical programs." In 2008, while at Harvard Law School,
Sunstein co-wrote a truly pernicious paper proposing that the U.S.
Government employ teams of covert agents and pseudo-"independent"
advocates to "cognitively infiltrate" online groups
and websites -- as well as other activist groups -- which advocate
views that Sunstein deems "false conspiracy theories" about the
Government. This would be designed to increase citizens' faith in
government officials and undermine the credibility of conspiracists.
The paper's abstract can be read, and the full paper downloaded, here.
Sunstein
advocates that the Government's stealth infiltration should be
accomplished by sending covert agents into "chat rooms, online social
networks, or even real-space groups." He also proposes that the
Government make secret payments to so-called "independent" credible
voices to bolster the Government's messaging (on the ground that those
who don't believe government sources will be more inclined to listen to
those who appear independent while secretly acting on
behalf of the Government). This program would target those advocating
false "conspiracy theories," which they define to mean: "an attempt to
explain an event or practice by reference to the machinations of
powerful people, who have also managed to conceal their role."
As I've previously noted, conspiracies are a well-accepted legal principal, and it is commonly accepted that conspiracies occur every day, and only those conspiracies which involve powerful people are ridiculed as being nutty or dangerous.
So Sunstein is really saying the government should use its power to protect powerful people.
Greenwald continues:
Sunstein's
closeness to the President, as well as the highly influential position
he occupies, merits an examination of the mentality behind what he
wrote. This isn't an instance where some government official wrote a
bizarre paper in college 30 years ago about matters unrelated to his
official powers; this was written 18 months ago, at a time when the
ascendancy of Sunstein's close friend to the Presidency looked likely,
in exactly the area he now oversees. Additionally, the
government-controlled messaging that Sunstein desires has been a
prominent feature of U.S. Government actions over the last decade,
including in some recently revealed practices of the current
administration, and the mindset in which it is grounded explains a great
deal about our political class. All of that makes Sunstein's paper
worth examining in greater detail.
* * * * *
Initially,
note how similar Sunstein's proposal is to multiple, controversial
stealth efforts by the Bush administration to secretly influence and
shape our political debates. The Bush Pentagon employed teams of
former Generals to pose as "independent analysts" in the media while secretly coordinating their talking points and messaging about wars and detention policies with the Pentagon. Bush officials secretly paid supposedly "independent" voices, such as Armstrong Williams and Maggie Gallagher,
to advocate pro-Bush policies while failing to disclose their
contracts. In Iraq, the Bush Pentagon hired a company, Lincoln Park,
which paid newspapers to plant pro-U.S. articles while pretending it came from Iraqi citizens. In response to all of this, Democrats typically accused
the Bush administration of engaging in government-sponsored propaganda
-- and when it was done domestically, suggested this was illegal
propaganda.
For background on current government propaganda efforts, see this.
Greenwald notes:
Indeed, there is a very strong case to make that what Sunstein is advocating is itself illegal under long-standing statutes prohibiting government "propaganda" within the U.S., aimed at American citizens:
As
explained in a March 21, 2005 report by the Congressional Research
Service, "publicity or propaganda" is defined by the U.S. Government
Accountability Office (GAO) to mean either (1) self-aggrandizement by
public officials, (2) purely partisan activity, or (3) "covert
propaganda." By covert propaganda, GAO means information which originates from the government but is unattributed and made to appear as though it came from a third party.Covert
government propaganda is exactly what Sunstein craves. His mentality
is indistinguishable from the Bush mindset that led to these abuses,
and he hardly tries to claim otherwise. Indeed, he favorably cites both the covert Lincoln Park program as well as Paul Bremer's closing of Iraqi newspapers which published stories the U.S. Government disliked, and justifies them as arguably necessary to combat "false conspiracy theories" in Iraq -- the same goal Sunstein has for the U.S.Sunstein's
response to these criticisms is easy to find in what he writes, and is
as telling as the proposal itself. He acknowledges that some
"conspiracy theories" previously dismissed as insane and fringe have
turned out to be entirely true (his examples: the CIA really did
secretly administer LSD in "mind control" experiments; the DOD really
did plot the commission of terrorist acts inside the U.S. with the
intent to blame Castro; the Nixon White House really did bug the DNC
headquarters). Given that history, how could it possibly be justified
for the U.S. Government to institute covert programs designed to
undermine anti-government "conspiracy theories," discredit government
critics, and increase faith and trust in government pronouncements?
Because, says Sunstein, such powers are warranted only when wielded by
truly well-intentioned government officials who want to spread The
Truth and Do Good -- i.e., when used by people like Cass Sunstein and Barack Obama:
Throughout, we assume a well-motivated government that aims to eliminate conspiracy theories, or draw their poison, if and only if social welfare is improved by doing so.
Dick Cheney was one of the main guys pushing for torture. illegal spying and other unlawful activity in the past. See this and this. Would you have trusted him to decide what allegations against the government were acceptable and which should be suppressed using the power of the state?
Of
course not. But Sunstein isn't very different. As discussed above,
Sunstein is also a fan of illegal spying and radical presidential
powers, and Sunstein despises alternative media as being
"anti-democratic". So what Sunstein considers to be good and for the
benefit of the social welfare is obviously very different from what the
Founding Fathers thought - or most Americans now think - this country is
all about.
And Sunstein was the main guy saying
that Bush era crimes (i.e. conspiracies by certain officials to
torture, to illegally spy on Americans, etc) should go unexamined and
unpunished. So he is really just for protecting the powerful against
accusation, investigation and prosecution. Underneath his words, that
is Sunstein's sole, guiding principal.
Back to Greenwald:
Thus, just like state secrets, indefinite detention, military commissions and covert, unauthorized wars,
what was once deemed so pernicious during the Bush years --
coordinated government/media propaganda -- is instantaneously
transformed into something Good.
* * * * *
What
is most odious and revealing about Sunstein's worldview is his
condescending, self-loving belief that "false conspiracy theories" are
largely the province of fringe, ignorant Internet masses and the Muslim
world. That, he claims, is where these conspiracy theories thrive
most vibrantly, and he focuses on various 9/11 theories -- both
domestically and in Muslim countries -- as his prime example.
If
everyone who questions the government's version of 9/11 is a conspiracy
theorist who should be challenged with state power, then alot of 9/11 Commissioners, congress people, and high-level intelligence and military officials are all in hot water.
More from Greenwald:
It's
certainly true that one can easily find irrational conspiracy
theories in those venues, but some of the most destructive "false
conspiracy theories" have emanated from the very entity Sunstein wants
to endow with covert propaganda power: namely, the U.S. Government
itself, along with its elite media defenders. Moreover, "crazy
conspiracy theorist" has long been the favorite epithet of those same
parties to discredit people trying to expose elite wrongdoing and
corruption.
Who is it who relentlessly spread
"false conspiracy theories" of Saddam-engineered anthrax attacks and
Iraq-created mushroom clouds and a Ba'athist/Al-Qaeda alliance
-- the most destructive conspiracy theories of the last generation?
And who is it who demonized as "conspiracy-mongers" people who warned
that the U.S. Government was illegally spying on its citizens,
systematically torturing people, attempting to establish permanent bases
in the Middle East, or engineering massive bailout plans to transfer
extreme wealth to the industries which own the Government? The most
chronic and dangerous purveyors of "conspiracy theory" games are the
very people Sunstein thinks should be empowered to control our political
debates through deceit and government resources: namely, the
Government itself and the Enlightened Elite like him.
It
is this history of government deceit and wrongdoing that renders
Sunstein's desire to use covert propaganda to "undermine"
anti-government speech so repugnant. The reason conspiracy theories
resonate so much is precisely that people have learned -- rationally --
to distrust government actions and statements. Sunstein's proposed
covert propaganda scheme is a perfect illustration of why that is. In
other words, people don't trust the Government and "conspiracy
theories" are so pervasive precisely because government is typically
filled with people like Cass Sunstein, who think that systematic deceit
and government-sponsored manipulation are justified by their own
Goodness and Superior Wisdom.
***
Just to get a sense for what an extremist Cass Sunstein is (which itself is ironic, given that his paper calls for "cognitive infiltration of extremist groups," as the Abstract puts it), marvel at this paragraph:
So
Sunstein isn't calling right now for proposals (1) and (2) -- having
Government "ban conspiracy theorizing" or "impose some kind of tax on
those who" do it -- but he says "each will have a place under
imaginable conditions." I'd love to know the "conditions" under which
the government-enforced banning of conspiracy theories or the
imposition of taxes on those who advocate them will "have a place."
That would require, at a bare minimum, a repeal of the First
Amendment. Anyone who believes this should, for that reason alone, be
barred from any meaningful government position.
Its looking more and more like four more years of Cheney.
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Gitmo is a fucking summer camp. We give fucking prayer mats, kosher food, and Korans to terrorists at Gitmo, while they behead our soldiers on Al Jazeera TV. Waterboarding = torture = ROFLMAO. Torture is taking a rusty icepick to the eardrums of the enemy while he watches you sodomize his wife and kids. Torture is hooking up a set of jumper cables to the crotch of the enemy and then cutting on the juice. Torture is gouging out the eyes, cutting off the ears, and cutting out the tongue before tossing the head into a dumpster. Waterboarding=torture=LOL
Go away! Your xenophobia and exculpations are part of the problem, not part of the solution.
Oh, REALLY? [Warning: NSFW and disgusting]
And see this and this [all disgusting stuff, posted solely to refute Smokey1's incorrect statement].
That's right, blame America. Three thousand plus Americans incinerated on 9/11 so that some illiterate, deluded radicals could have their rendezvous with their harem of virgins. Don't utter a peep about that. Always blame America.
A million iraqis is a lot more and the world blames america
Nah we need at least 2 down days in gold before Johnny shows up with his drivel.
Calling JohnnyBravo, calling JayBayBaker, Calling MonetaryRed ....
Shithead sunstine is a traitor along with all the rest of them....
This should be on zerohedge because this will be a site that will be infiltratred and taxed!
Wow!! It sounds as if the Sunstein character is one whacked-out sociopath, just like Cheney and Rumsfeld.
"What is good for those in power is democracy and what is good for the people of the nation should be punished by those in power"
Up is down, right is wrong and tyranny is freedom... and these social misfits are running our country, eh?
mental illness is treatable
get help
this garbage has no place on ZH. "torture"? please. ask the Cambodians what real torture is.
Maybe you are not the best to judge what belongs here and what does not belong here. By objecting, maybe you are exposing yourself as one of the misinformation minions planted at Zerohedge.
But I would have no way of knowing that.
What forms our country, our market, our world are the people and those that have claimed leadership over it. It has been clear for decades that those in power have no connection to those who they rule and by that very reason should have no right to rule... they have stolen power and now are apparently maintaining it through fascist means ... one administration linked to another through a common leadership.
My first thought is that these sociopaths are trying to create a rebellion through their increasingly antisocial and predetary acts... Those promoted as the good guys are really the bad guys and visa versa... does chaos help them accomplish their goals?
Oh, REALLY? [Warning: NSFW and disgusting]
And see this and this [all disgusting stuff, posted solely to refute Vergeltung's incorrect statement].
Cognitive Infiltration!!! Yeah, that all works until such time as court ordered discovery brings things back down to earth. At this point its stirring within the "court of independent thinking" and we can certainly see where that is going. We'll just let the state AG's start to get their feet wet on what is right in front of them in black and white and see ya down the road on the rest... The days of carry a big stick (verbally) and "steer" the mindless heard are over. A simple plant can be wired and instruments can "sense" its nature change when it (or the Onelife) senses that a malevolent intent is directed toward it. Are humans not higher in the scale? If there is no problem and no mal intent then one would not try to siphon information nor fear any position. Just look at it this way -- its catharsis time for the greater mass consciousness as they look in upon themselves and frankly don't like what they see. Of course what they see is reflected all around them but no less is the momentum of this cleaning of the cup in all things. If you've ever watched an individual go through this you know there can be deep turbulence at first and then oncoming of an incredible shift to a higher state of benevolence and intelligence! Study the history of the Renaissance and you will find it was an outgrowth of the collapse of the Lombard Debt System! One great big Rhythm breathing in and out -- low tide then high tide...
All of this "conspiracy investigation" is the act of SELF ANALYSIS by a MASS of PEOPLE.
Anymore on this and I may be giving too many clues to the Cognitive Infiltrators. But it IS interesting to note, when an individual has these cathartic moments they will encounter within them selves very similar things to "Cognitive Infiltrators." And it just so happens Nature will always provide the exact duplicate in the outer world to mirror such a transformation!
So, in reality ya'll just playing your parts and helping the 'whole thing along..."
"All the World Is a Stage..."
Best to be on the right side of this thing imho so think well your part...
Nature is always watching and THAT is the REAL truth of the all seeing eye! Not some person or "evil" group but that NEXUS of SUPRA INTELLIGENCE best labelled for now as NATURE or PROVIDENCE. Always there -- destroying the physical body when the mind is engaged in negative and building the body when the personality is engaged in positive intentions! Indeed it certainly CAN be feared if one is of "ill intent" toward life or any component of it!
None can hide from Providence nor do her any harm at 'tal... She rolls on inexorable in her beautiful yet tumultuous advance -- through low swings onto high swings taking the whole thing to another level -- just as in the renaissance, the founding of the USA, and countless other examples.
ie, very little of this "cognitive infiltration" matters really...
...
One can just turn to the first sentence of the US Constitution and investigate for themselves the potential conflict between an ideal and the reality.
1. Justice
2. Insure Domestic Tranquility
3. Provide for Common Defense
4. Promote the General Welfare
5. Secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and to our posterity
How are those primary objectives of the Founding Document going? Is it a conspiracy to see some are lacking from the ideal? Wasn't the actual defining moment of the founding of the USA directly related to "conspiracy theories" at the time in relation to King George?
It must further be understood what this "New Objective" of a New Nation meant for the population of the planet as a whole. It changed everything -- laid a new ground work across the world -- and held a new bar in which all else was measured against. It was only as "This Noble Idea" reached its darkest hours and most difficult moments that it manifested as a tangible expression in the world for all to see. Thus, the harder the hammer of tyranny hits the stronger the vine becomes...
May Peace travel with ALL -->
Beautifully articulate and poignant post my friend! Thank you, this was inspiring to me.
http://norfleet1941.tripod.com/Raphael_School_of_Athens.jpg
He says that like it's a bad thing...
There are those two words again "public service". The next time I actually see a government official committing some form of public SERVICE, it will probably be the first since JFK.
I don't think, greed, self-aggrandizement, waste and corruption count toward "public service " points.
Saying that government officials are public servants is like saying that fascism is freedom.
You have to remember the origin of the term public service ... think in terms of bull servicing cow.
Yeah those darn Kennedy's were always looking out for Americans best interests - like that family isn't part of the machine that is grinding the middle class to dust you moron.
Yes, as if there might be something wrong with
a future call to accountability.
+1000
hahahahahahaha so very true!
More jokes from GW
Prattle on and on about Bush while Obama murders and assassinates daily with the weapons of a coward, drones.
Carry on and on about "war monger" Bush while Obama expands war into pakistan, once our ally.
You must really hate Obama now, right?
When do you start calling for the Obama war crimes trial!
effin moron.
I am for prosecuting all war criminals, democrats and republicans!
+1
I thought you were pretty clear on this point.
At least the rightards are breaking with the GOP. Leftards, when confronted with their team's malfeasance and corruption would just say "well Busch did it too." As if that is sufficient to bring cloture.
They don't fucking care. The primary concern and desire of a blue teamer is to see a red teamer frothing, bitching, and pissed off over the fact a blue teamer is in the Chair raping both of them.
The libtard media is showing its stripes as clowns like Maher go after Teaparty candidates with maximum vigor...OMG she dabbled in witchcraft at 18. WTF was Bama doin at 18? High on coke and dabbling in homosexuality. Oh, but that doesn't matter, he's blueteam.
The two parties need to collapse...pick one and watch the other fall of its own weight. Right now the GOP is vulnerable and needs to be destroyed. A few years ago I was saying the same thing about the demtard party.
They why carry on about old news when Obama is upping the war crime quotient?
Post an honest article about Obama's war crimes and I will believe this statement,
"I am for prosecuting all war criminals, democrats and republicans!"
Here are a few of the many I've written:
Umm, as if you have not been paying attention, Obama has done FAR worse.
Here, I'll even help you out:
Google "obama assassinates american"
I've written about that many times. See for example:
First link mentions Cheney second link doesn't name any particluar party so your response isn't very supportive of your assertion.
You are kidding right? I followed the links, where are the Obama denouncements? As a matter of fact, the context in which you present the information makes it seem like poor Obama is just continuing policies and is not really responsible for the direction of the war machine.
If you can't be intellectually honest, there is no point in me even responding.
Um, so wait .. what exactly have you done? Nothing? Oh, right... then it is OK for you to be critical of others. Hypocrite!
LOL wow great argument so since he didn't post an article he isn't entitled to question GW? You are a dangerous moron.
didn't he implicate Obama by pointing out his refusal to prosecute? That makes the new guy just as low. As others have wisely commented red=blue. Also, you do not need to prove another man's crimes to prove the first.
There are numerous purposes for torture: to extract information, to inflict excruciating pain and to terrorize a populous. Contrary to the belief of some pacifists, torture works. It also has a deterrent effect. Raping small children in front of their parents, chopping off the heads of family members and the like have been successfully used to discourage would be jihadists. In Viet Nam, a buddy of mine used to throw prisoners out of the helicopter for fun. He also blew away water buffalo for target practice which really pissed off the rice farmers but that's another story.
Raping small children in front of their parents, chopping off the heads of family members and the like have been successfully used to discourage would be jihadists
Are you Michael Aquino? Do you know Michael Aquino? That is what the legendary project Monarch is all about. I can't vouch for the accuracy of everything said in a documentary called Monarch-the New Phoenix Program, but there is a lot there that has strong evidence backing it up. Basically, it tells the story of CIA officials including the Church of Set founder Michael Aquino, initiating a program to kidnap children and put them under an incomprehensible regimen of torture and extreme abuse, including several hours per day being raped, being forced at gunpoint to rape others, being forced to perform depraved sex acts involving human waste, solitary confinement, and sleep depravation, and other unthinkable tortures, for years, until their identities were destroyed and they were reprogramed into little CIA puppets. I sometimes wonder if the Sean Hannitys of this world come from such programs.
Those who think such evil is beyond belief would do well to remember that there are people in this world like Cark Marks. I would discuss the fate I hope lies in store for you, but I would sicken myself and taint myself with whatever it is that stains you.
Probably just a forum shock jock. That's how some people get their kicks.
I don't believe in either heaven or hell, but for those who do I would find this a fitting fate for those who don't believe water-boarding is torture: not that they burn in eternal fire, but are merely water-boarded every 30 minutes for eternity.
I have a very loose policy w. regard to speech and I always err on the side of protecting speech. My opinion is that all opinions should be given a fair hearing and none dismissed out of hand, as I have even seen, once my mind was opened, significant evidence that the moon landing was in fact faked. Not saying I believe it, but there is a case to be made.
Nonetheless, Carl Marks is a guy who I would ban from my site. This is a guy who gets a kick out of telling stories about how his friend killed people in Vietnam for the fun of it. He cites excruciating pain for its own sake as a legit. reason for torture. The man is repulsive and wretched and I would not want to have anything to do with such a person other than to see him in hell--from a safe distance. I'd probably visit Hell far too often just to see him there, suffering from all the things he jokes about inflicting on others.
Those sorts of tactics must be why we won.
Betcha the dude got thrown talked!
Screamed; "Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucck" all the way down.
OMG, why are we even going down this road of duplicitous polemic minutiae?
Actually, people thrown out of helicopters don't talk. They scream.
sad really, you seem to know alot about it. My gut, which made me 100k this month, tells me that this "my friend" bull is just that, and that you are probably a murderer. 10k to he or she who proves me right and gets this lowlife locked up.
Hearts and minds ...
To paraphrase a great warrior, when you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow.
"In Viet Nam, a buddy of mine used to throw prisoners out of the helicopter for fun."
That is the thing about sociopaths. They cannot understand that, while they may have been having a grand old time, it probably wasn't very 'fun' for the person being thrown out of the helicopter.
You say that 'torture works'. I suppose you have empirical evidence to back up this (apparently) baseless claim. Perhaps you'll share it with us? Or did you just spat off all of this nonsense for 'fun'.
Seemingly they just like torture ... more proof that they are sociopaths and take pleasure in corrupting our children.
That is the missing component in every political calculus.
My theory on TV anchor president Obama is that he was put in place to make the electorate think 'anything is possible in America.' Make no mistake, Obama the jr senator from Illinois was a Bilderberg pick. And the stupid fucking idiots voted for him. Fisa, inflating pentagon budgets, banker bonuses, renominating bernanke, reappointing gates, escalating wars- see Pakistan, deteriorating transparency and increasing police state are all OBAMA initiatives.
Fuck Obama and our fraudulent CONgress.
Yes, both Obama and Hillary attended Bilderberg 2008... and I am sure they both received blessing and orders and were informed that the Dow was being taken down to 1998 levels (It was in the original report), and prior to the crash.
The very confusing thing for me is these "so called" leaders could be a force for good, progress and benefactors to humanity and instead they are a parasitic scourge that seemingly is working against the human race. The question is WHY?! Are they all just bored narcissistic sociopaths or is there something that we do not know that drives them to do what is right for humanity, but seems so wrong and selfish? It does not add up.
The one thing that is clear. They have ceased to have any semblance to "leaders" and are now simply taking the role of "rulers" and parasitic rulers at that.