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Government Passes Most Recent Unemployment "Stimulus" Bill, Budget Deficit To Increase By $30 Billion
It must have been at least a week without the US government announcing some stimulus, subsidy, tariff or other protectionist measure, because today the government just passed yet another $79 billion stimulus bill, extending unemployment benefits and restoring expired tax breaks. The net cost to the deficit: around $30 billion. This really is a drop in the bucket: so far in fiscal 2010, the US budget has already spent over $107 billion on unemployment benefits, and $30 billion is less than the government raises in one of its three biweekly coupon auctions. On the other hand, when Obama next wonders why nobody in America works any more, he may want to reevaluate that 6 million unemployed people in the US are now encouraged to be on government payrolls for two years.
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People, not the government.
I believe Japan beat you to that one. (and despite suffering decades of deflation still hasn't managed to find bottom)
Needless to say, it takes a concerted effort between government and the citizenry to ensure financial success, longevity, and consistency (Has that ever even happened?). If the people are generally decent savers, the government can and will spend with reckless abandon. When the people save more, the government will need to create that much more "stimulus."
Aside from the fact that people saving more works for only short periods of depressed economic activity. You might save for a rainy day, but what about a rainy decade?
I agree that it is a good policy to save, I save probably 60-70% of my net income and make less than 6 figures. So you're preaching to the choir. But many people are going on two years without a job... which would ruin virtually anyone in the middle class...
True.
Agent P.
"or the loans could be worked off via some sort of public service."
Hmmmmmmm.......kinda like the NEW Student loan Programs?.
Welcome to the Brown Shirt Brigades..............infkindentured servitude.
Want a loan, WORK for the Unions/ACORN, or some other fkstick Socialist shit program touted by Big O?.
Remember, we can't count on the military, we MUST have a force as large and as strong as our Military!!!!!!!!!
Sieg fkin Heil!!!!!!!!!!!!
student loans are on their way to creating a massive class of serfs.
How is it that the DOW, Nasdaq and S&P charts are exactly the same when the components are different for each index?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_market_index
I understand what the indexes are. The question is how do they all move together in exactly the same direction when the underlying components are different and should have their own unique valuations?
Because the whole thing is controlled by a centralized financial establishment that needs maintain a sense of proportion between various stocks and sectors, and industries in order to keep this game appearing to be legit.
Some of that stimulus should be used to buy more bandwidth for ZH. No I'm not complaining. It's for a good cause.
Unemployment benefits are a life line for many millions of families, former working tax payers, these are not lazy people. . It is not any fault of those collecting that they are now unemployed. One of the few responsible acts from this government.... Bravo. The cost of aid is small compared to the contribution these people have made in the work place , in fact instead of tearing down 10,000 houses in Detroit perhaps the homeless could get a new start in Detroit? In many cities.
The economy is now broken , a safety net to help the victims of poor vision and globalization should be a priority, not seen as a mistake.Remember it could be you next.
The problem is the millions of jobs sent overseas and the supposed belief that the jobs illegal immigrants are now doing is too "good" for services sector America. We need to close the borders and return those jobs sent overseas back home and the large coprorations of America will just have to cope with paying citizens an honest wage otherwise we are allowing the country to die a slow death as we are witnessing today.
We cannot all work in the services sector trading shells back and forth for profits it is unsustainable. No economy can function let alone prosper for long without manufacturing and production of goods. I do not blame the unemployed however they need to understand those jobs will not come back without a change in leadership.
couldn't agree more. I fact it should be enforced on any business that if they want to retain a license they must show why they cannot produce in America first.
Europe has its own issues of unemployment. Deporting the illegal aliens? This would make Europe implode at once.
Cant do that.
Amen John McCloy! For my industry IT, shut down the H1B visas which also lower wages. But shut down many work visa programs as well.
Shut down anything covered in 20 CFR 655 & 20 CFR 656. Or at very least, make it impossible to certify in 20 CFR 656 unless full-time, non-temp unemployment is below 2%. No business letting these people take US work followed by a foreign re-assignment.
www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/title_20/Part_655/toc.htm
20 CFR 655 - Temporary employment of Aliens within the United States
www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/title_20/Part_656/toc.htm
20 CFR 656 - Labor Certification Process for Permanent Employment of Aliens In the United States
+1
Take billions in corporate "profits" and convert those into employment measures.
The corporations are solid, the backs of the people that carried the corporations are weak.
Segestan
Funny how so many here are out of touch.
But if it was their ass needing feeding they would bitch about low the bennies are.
My community never recovered from the eighties. Never will. It is in a death spiral. They started following the Detroit model tearing down houses.
Useless platitudes and silly statements "homeless could get a new start in Detroit"... I had the good fortune to work union construction for five years as a younger man and let me tell you, a solid 10-20% of the workers on site at any given time were there until they qualified for more "bennys". From that point they made it known they were looking for a layoff as soon as possible so they could get back on the govt. dole. Their "contribution" was but a fraction of their take, they knew it and they loved it.
Unemployment benefits may be a lifeline to the rare unfortunate & normally productive chap but I dare say the majority on unemployment in good times and a solid minority in bad are career parasites hitting the government feeder bar as often as they can.
I have been in the construction industry for over 40 years , as a worker and contractor, and been a Union member. Very few workers in America fit you're view of waiting for benny's. The Union life is way over rated by out siders.. these guys and gals work there ass off. Sure some might like to take a leave from time to time but whats that compared to the thieves on wallstreet and in government? And i'm just talking Union... most workers never know the union life of benny's most people work for dirt pay , so what if they want to be unemployed for a time, they contribute the rest of their lives.
Also, your suggestion of "govt. dole" is completely misleading, based on the system as it was designed.
I work union const. also, and while there are always a few that want a lay off, most will work every minute of every day, for YEARS if it's available. The crew that works for me now, did a 22 month stretch, 6-7 days a weeks, 10-14 hrs./day, in weather ranging from 95 above to 40 below. MOST of these guys NEVER missed a SINGLE day of work the whole time.
The "Bennies" you speak so disparagingly of, are paid by the WORKER into a fund for insurance and pension. They need to work a certain number of hours a year to fund these fully. Many union workers are away from their families when they work, and simply are there until they can get their insurance paid up for the year, then ask for a lay-off, and go home to work a lower paying job. The only government related "bennie" is the unemployment, which is paid for by the employer, thus the customer anyway. Most construction companies end up paying in more to the system than their guys ever draw out of it. There is a large misconception about how U.I. is funded.
"their "contribution" was but a fraction of their take"..... I call Bullshit on that. Your "take" is directly proportional to your "contribution".
If you worked five years in union const. then your pension is vested. And if it was a while back, you're probably gonna "take" a helluva lot more than you "contributed". Or have you told them to just take the money and put it back into the general pension fund?
+ 10,000 Ceo tax now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Deport all illegal aliens. That would open up a few million jobs. Oh, but that's not on the agenda.
It would simply free up jobs that nobody wants...and that therefore no one will do. I was shocked, visiting from The Great White North, how Mexicans are everywhere in New England.. I'm sorry but back home we don't have bathroom attends at public beaches that expect a tip for cleaning the mirror and offering you a towel... It just seemed incredibly odd to me.
In fact if you deported all illegal aliens I think your economy would suffer even more as people would have to take time away from their big important jobs to clean their own houses and raise their children themselves.
America freed one class of slaves only to entrap another. You need the illegals as much as they need you.
"It would simply free up jobs that nobody wants...and that therefore no one will do."
Whether or not someone wants the job depends on how much someone else is willing to pay them to do it.If someone wants/needs the job done enough, they'll pay enough to get someone to do it.
Nobody 'wants' to install roof shingles, or dig trenches etc.
nedwardkelly
Not sure where you are, but my neck of the woods roofers and ditch diggers are good ole white boys.
Roofers get paid well as do contractors and plumbers and Electricians.
Listen to what Mike Rowe has to say.
http://www.ted.com/talks/mike_rowe_celebrates_dirty_jobs.html
See everyone wants the lazy mans job, sitting on your ass trading or doing the books. Nobody wants to work, real bust ass, work anymore.
It isn't the Illegals, it is US. We trained our kids not to value physical labor.
No one cared when the manufacturing jobs and the farming jobs started leaving. Much like the crack epidemic, whitey only bitches when shit hits his community.
We are short sighted and selfish.
Couldn't agree more. Same in many necks of most woods.
Agree, back in 91', no jobs, everyone getting laid off in Chicago area. I had to eat though, so I took a job at Radio Shack making $2.15/hr. There were 2 other engineers working there too. We hated it, but what could ya do? The more privileged friends of mine, who never worked a real job in their lives, just went back to Mommy and Daddy, wouldn't even consider taking such a "lowly" job to feed themselves. This is the problem. Now, they use Mommy and Daddy and gov bennies cuz they are too good to work at Micky D's. Used to be the values were "any job is better than no job". I don't think so anymore.
"See everyone wants the lazy mans job, sitting on your ass trading or doing the books. Nobody wants to work, real bust ass, work anymore."
Are you really serious with this vomit you spew? Or just looking for a reaction?
Thanks for that fantastic link.
I think that's one of the best TED talks I've ever seen.
Nice to hear some truth for once.
Import more illegals to free up productive time for people with big important jobs? OK, then what constitutes a big important job? Someone sitting behind a desk, any desk? I'm not following this logic.
Bullshit. I know plenty of people who would take those jobs. However, there is a huge problem with economic and political understanding in this country/world. Minimum wage laws and the vast majority of regulations must go, and the Supreme Court needs to get back to telling the federal government where their bounds are. The abuse of the commerce clause since the 30s is sickening.
If we deport all those criminals there will be lots of work. The key is doing it with a simultaneous eradication of minimum wage laws and unemployment benefits. All the unskilled citizens will have a temper tantrum for a while, but then they'll realize they have to eat or die. If you're not willing to bust your ass/mind to make your living, you deserve what you get.
Would people have to make some hard adjustments? Of course. But, if we don't do this, and globally, this whole fuckin thing is going to go supernova.
Conrad Murray
Are you claiming you would be willing to work for less than minimum wage? That you could feed your family and thrive on those wages?
"Would people have to make some hard adjustments?"
Are you volunteering? Hard adjustments means the other guy right? You got yours. You got food, a new car, clothes for the kids.
Right, all good for you.
When was the last time you made minimum wage? Less than that? Experiment, budget yourself ONLY what you would have to spend on low wages. See how well your lifestyle is.
I bet you can't even make it a week.
Nice to piss on everyone from that ivory tower.
If I were in a position where my skill set only allowed for a below minimum wage job, I would not be so foolish as to have a family I could not support. Priorities and all.
"How well your lifestyle is" is a meaningless metric. That is all subjective bullshit. If an individual is only able to make $3/hr, then he or she should find a group of people in a similar situation and move into a house together. They can split bills and save until their situation improves. Just because someone feels entitled to a car, a family, and a picket fence, does not mean he or she actually is. Nobody is. Earn it.
Good Post.
Wyndbag, if you were hungry enough you would do the job. You've probably never been poor, have you?
You talkin' to me? I've been living off fumes most of my adult life specifically because I turned down the MBA make money hand over fist lifestyle in exchange for trying to make a go for it as a filmmaker.. Needless to say it didn't exactly work out as I imagined.. Worked as an assistant director on and off but due to certain personality issues could never quite suck up to the man enough to get ahead.. The film industry is about as corrupt and venal as they get.
When I say some people can't earn their living or they have a hard time earning a living sometimes it's because they refuse to to subvert their will for someone else's benefit.. So then of course you're left to your own devices but if you're not naturally entrepreneurial it can be pretty tough going especially when trying to crack into highly competitive industrie like entertainment or sports. But I keep trying.
I have done my share of shit manual labour thank you very much including dry stone massonry in the hot sun which is hard physical work but satisfying in a way no one who works at a desk could understand.. I have also done the temp labour thing which is dehumanizing but necessary when you gotta eat. But it's a crap lousy way to live day to day... So yeah. I have been hungry enough..And I HAVE done the job.. and it SUCKS because the pay is next to useless...
If it weren't for a decent upbringing and some unemployment insurance here and there I would have turned to crime or most likely homelessness a long time ago...I sure thought of it.... I used to think that I probably could do better in the U.S. because you have more flexible labour markets there and I do believe that Americans are much quicker to reward talent and good ideas (well you USED to be anyway when Wall Street actually invested in businesses as opposed to high stakes gambling)...but I'm not big on working illegally in the U.S. If I had been I would have done what 99% of all successful Canadians working in Hollywood did at one point or another which is move to L.A. and work under the table until I made my 1st million after which all crimes are forgiven. That's the American way isn't it?
Have you ever been responsible for the well-being of someone else?
No I have not. Precisely because I'm quite self-aware of my neurosis when it comes to whoring myself to a Pay Master doing something I don't particularly care for. I have barely been able to keep my chin above water for the past 20 years and I sure as hell wasn't about to drag a woman and potential children into that situation with me. So I have pretty much avoided any serious relationships as well... or perhaps they avoided me... in any case I've finally landed a full time job which has allowed me to settle down somewhat..got a lady friend now and I have been deleveraging for close to three years.. In about four months I'll be debt free...and then I can try and get back to pursuing what I WANT to be doing.
I just find that in the U.S. people can be extremely harsh and brutally insensitive when it comes to discussing the plight of the unemployed, especially now with what, 15 million officially unemployed Americans with 5 people for every available job? And this employment crisis has little to do with illegals or with whitey being lazy... it's all about Washington and Wall Street colluding to off shore manufacturing jobs to cheap labour jurisdictions and leaving nothing but SERVice jobs behind and whatever manufacturing jobs unions could manage to save. And then the credit markets froze and *POOF* millions of jobs just vapourized never to return. And keep in mind that those cheques do go back into the economy but most importantly, for the government, it keeps disgruntled people in front of their t.v.'s and computers instead of marching on Washington and Wall Street, pitchforks in hand.
When the shit hits the fan do yourself a favor and play chicken with a tank. You can be like that Chinese Tiananmen square dude. Not only will you be remembered, but it will be one less mouth to feed.
Thanks for the suggestion but my preference will be to head to the hills where we and several others I know have plenty of land to grow food and we have guns (yes we do have those in Canada...for hunting not killing 3000 children a year). I sincerely wish you and your family luck in surviving the collapse of your beloved America into an Orwellian nigthmare.
Nonsense. When I was a teenager I was happy to do those "terrible" jobs to make a dough to give back to Corporate America via the local mall.
Why the hell can't teenagers cut the f*cking grass or clean the sh1tters anymore?
Don't even get me started on the able bodied trailer people...
when i was a teenager, 20 years ago in the suburbs of NYC, i mowed lawns, shoveled horse shit, pumped gas and changed oil. all great stuff for building character.
guess what, kids can't do that now, illegals charge less.
it also doesn't help that people are training their kids for the GMAT at age 5 and making sure the get the "right" internships so they have just the right resume.
we deserve what is coming to us. spoiled parents raising spoiled brats.
They deserve what is coming to them. The rest of us have learned to do what it takes to earn a living.
It is ironic that people with jobs don't really consider the plight of the unemployed until they join them.
Over the last 30 years the inflow of illegals taking lowend jobs and the outsourcing of midrange jobs have altered the supply and demand balance of employee wages.
Used to be when there was a shortage of employees... wages went up. Now the Biggies just open the floodgates and control wages.
This cycle ends poorly when your neighbors become unemployed and your company farts and you find yourself trying to make it working 50 hours a week at $7.25 an hour before taxes.
Can you guess why Biggies are doing this? Set aside the brainwashing and do the math.
Ying-Yang
Lemme guess, the Biggies are evil?
It would simply free up jobs that nobody wants...and that therefore no one will do.
Bull. Shit.
"It would simply free up jobs that nobody wants...and that therefore no one will do".
Bullshit............a city I think in Ga, had an ICE raid of a chicken processing facility.( Jobs all taken by illegals,you know the jobs no one wanted?).
A LOCAL woman working drive thru at McGolden Arches, making $4.25 an hour, stood in a line of a around a 1000, and landed a job at the plant...........Well, the plant couldn't SCREW the locals, so she started at $7.50 an hour..........a $3.25 raise off the bat.
Damn near doubled her wages, and the plant was full of locals.............doing the jobs,Americans won't do...........allowed her to drop a second gig, and be home w/kids at night.
That mantra, Americans won't do it, is BULLSHIT............it's always been an excuse for CHEAP assed labor.
This was at the begining of the NEW regime................
Fair enough. I was referring more to housekeeping, child care, toilet cleaning, migrant farming..you know the REALLY unpleasant stuff...
America does have an immigration problem, there is no denying that.
if anyone thinks they are too good to scrub a toilet, they should be forced to drink from one. no one is too good for anything (within reason).
But it is understandable that one would consider all other options before doing low paying work. It's not so much the "toughness" of the work that is the issue, it's the fact that unskilled manual labour pays so little. So yeah, when you have unemployment insurance there is definitely an incentive to delay going back to work unless you can find a job that matches your skills or at least something close to what you are earning. The system is designed to allow people this leeway. And it is an indirect economic stimulus. The idea being that marginal happiness, which we are all in pursuit of, will be greater if people do work that they enjoy and feel are being paid fairly for. Unemployment insurance distorts labor markets. It's a well documented fact. But in my book the moral hazard inherent in unemployment insurance is not a national security issue. Unlike America's Too Big To Fail banks who go on using TRILLIONS of taxpayer money to gamble the future away with the tacit backing of Government bailouts. Unemployment Insurance is not cheap.. If I am not mistaken the last renewal added $30 billion to your deficit.. compared to the several trillions in direct and indirect bailouts SO FAR to prop up the banks so they can pay themselves record bonuses only two years after cratering the World Economy.
That mantra, Americans won't do it, is BULLSHIT............it's always been an excuse for CHEAP assed labor.
We are in a recession now so its different, but when times are good people are able to pick and choose. A lot of the time you have to pick between unreliable workers and illegals when times are good. The amount of money these employers are offering isn't top dollar so it attracts the lowlifes (there are exceptions) and illegals when employment is easy to find.
Deport all illegal aliens.
How the hell are the North American Indians going to get rid of 300+ million?
Have you seen Avatar?
No - relevance? Should I?
If Gaia decided to send every freaking animal after "invaders" we'd be looking for the exit. But that's just the movie. It's entertaining!
i personally enjoyed the deft subtlety which cameron used to convey his msg. unobtanium and pandora, brilliant stuff. s/
I saw it about 20 years ago. It was called "Dances With Wolves".
Then again 7 years ago when it was called "The Last Samurai".
and Yet again 15 years ago when it was called Pocahontas.
Yes, I saw the 2 hours of movie and 40 minutes of sanctimonious wtf on the RDA. What you don't see is the RDA unloading from the sky on Pandora 6-12 years later. Those birds on Pandora can't dodge what they can't hit.
"How the hell are the North American Indians going to get rid of 300+ million?"
Hell, their not native.....they were here first, came across the land bridge from Europe long ago.
No such thing, as a real Native American..............we're ALL IMMIGRANTS..............
Some just legal, some not.
There's more than one meaning of 'native' - being a member of the original inhabitants of a particular place.
deleted
Look at Willmington Ohio. The only employer was the ABX air park. When that closed 17,000 direct jobs were lost in a comunity of 40,000 total and that includes the surrounding farm counties. The nearest other towns are Columbus ad Cincinnatti at about 45 miles each and they aren't exactly job mecas either. If you were a single woman with a couple of kids and an old car and they cut you off you would starve in the cold. Simple as that. And by the way 99% of the people down there are white s forget the single mom stereotype.
So you give her unemployment for two years. Then what does she do in two years? Did the plant start back up?
Make her Ceo at BP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
She was forced to have children without the means to support them? She couldn't save for a "rainy day"? She doesn't have friends/family/religious community to help her through? There's always work, people just have to lower their standards. Playing to emotions is not going to fly when you are talking about stealing money from a productive member of society in order to support an unproductive one.
Conrad Murray
Or her dickhead husband ran off with his hot younger secretary. Or her husband died.
Or she was doing just fine until the factory closed.
How long have you been in that protective bubble?
About as long as you've been in your entitlement bubble I suppose. SAVE YOUR MONEY! Anyone that fails to hedge against future uncertainty will not garner my sympathy in that respect.
That's not to say I wouldn't help someone in such a situation. If a friend or relative was going through hard times, I'd offer a spare room, or a meal. But I will never, ever, support the government taking the money you, I, or anyone else worked for in order to hand it over to some stranger. I know too many people on unemployment laughing it up in front of cable tv while they booze and smoke the day away yapping on a cell phone.
if you are making 12/hour and raising two children, exactly how money could you save...one years salary? then what?
You missed my main point in all this. If you are making 12/hr and you do not own your residence and vehicle outright, there is a very strong chance you SHOULD NOT have two children, as you are woefully unprepared to meet their needs.
How the hell do you own a residence and vehicle outright when earning $12/hr with housing prices and the cost of living as high as they have been? It's curious you use $12/hr when previously you were going on about eliminating minimum wage. What is that in the States? $7? How the hell do you live on that, let alone $4 or whatever corporations would slam wages down to without a minimum wage.
This whole pleb-beating thread is bullshit - The government is propping up the real-estate to save the banks. They're propping up the unemployed to save real-estate. The corrupt banks/governments around the world just seem to be kicking the can, and loading their pockets, while laughing away playing "the game".
Thnaks, agreed.....and on the point you should only bred if you are upper middle class AND own house and car outright....guess that means 95 percent of US pop should have sterilized themselves in the last century....young people never have wealth like that, guess guys can wait till their fifty.....
People really think that most people don't work and are parasites, when what I see is people with college degrees working at Ikea part time for benes at $8/hr and doing contract professional work wherever they can find it, or the people at Ikea without degrees working 3 jobs to pay rent and feed themselves.
Why does almost everyone on ZH seem to think most regular folks are parasites, I just don't see it my world, I see a whole lotta misery and hard work for money. I see people working for free justnto get their foot in the door in an industry, whilentheyntend bar at nite etc...I see people working side jobs for cash while looking for time job with benes but not finding it..Etc...
but everyone loves kid! everyone should have at least 5! morons breeding.
Or move to where there are jobs.
These people are amazing. That's why I had to say they were "white" people. As to always jobs the guy has no idea what he was taing about and ain't very good at math. An employer of 17,000 in an community of 40,000 goes away. The resteraunts go away, the shops go away the service jobs go away they are no on an interstate what the hell are they supposed to do? Become imigrants I suppose.
"what the hell are they supposed to do? Become imigrants I suppose."
Now you're on to something. Emigrants though. When the jobs leave, the people just may have to leave with them. If there are no jobs out there for the people, it's time to take a long hard look at one's life. Ideally, this assessment, and subsequent adjustments, should be done before urgently necessary though.
You do not go into anything with out knowing the consequences, kids, house, car whatever. Don't give me a protective bubble crap if you can't offord something if you loose your job then don't do it! People STOP making excuses for people who don't know how to live in the world we are in right now, they want their gadget, or TV show and an easy way out, what they do not want is REALITY! Well reality is a bitch and it is about to bite a whole bunch of people in the ASS!
Stealing???? How old are you? 13?
I hope you never lose your job.
She had a job when she had them asshole
Two ways this can go:
1. She's a valuable employee and will have no trouble finding another job, perhaps for less pay considering the unemployment numbers. Her past actions are not too terribly important.
2. She's just another person that lacks anything of value outside of opposable thumbs. Instead of thinking about her future, and getting an education or learning a trade, she followed the path of nearly half the people in her town and went for the "sure thing" at the local factory. Now, unable to relocate because she never saved any money (and if her husband died, not having life insurance), and she has no skills, her only option is to rely on handouts from the government. She/They did not adequately prepare for the future, she should not have had children until her shit was together.
If people want unemployment benefits, they should have them in their state(s). Keep the federal government the hell out of it so people like me can live a super duper risky life free of social safety nets. A life where we are free to make it to the highest peak, or the lowest valley.
That is just so offenive. The reason I know about Wilmington is I was a division manager for a corporation there in 1999 through 2001. Those were good people with good jobs. What's an aircraft mechanic supposed do? The plane count is down everywhere nobody's hiring. What about my accounting gal? No money to count no more.
She needs to move Paul. She probably thinks she's stuck because nobody will buy her house. Boo Fucking Hoo.
Move to Dayton, work for some other government contractor, and get $100,000+ in wages & benefits?
Defense Accounting is getting somewhat big there. Take a series of classes, and get enough attention to justify the clearance process.
Well maybe, Conrad, people under a certain IQ should just be sterilized since they're too stupid and ignorant to make something of themselves. Would that make you happy? Is there anywhere in the Constitution that says the less fortunate and less intelligent have no choice but to live with the shitty hand they've been delt at birth? i.e. no education, no healthcare, processed food, smokes, booze and no future? These are the very people who will tear down your crystal palace when they can't take it no more. Please don't tell me you're religious.
Yeah... and unless she was squatting with her kids in an abondoned building, every penny of her lost job's paycheck was eaten up in living expenses each week. Put away $5 a week? What purpose would that serve?
As much as Conrad's points seem harsh or elitist, he makes a valid point. There are no consequences for your actions anymore.
"Got knocked up early, and no Daddy in the picture? Don't worry sweetheart, we'll pay your rent, your food, your heat, help you go to school, Hell, even put some gas in your car every week so you can get there. Or, we'll pay for your abortion."
"Can't get your nuts cut or your tubes tied, and have more kids than you can afford? No problem. Go stand in this line over here, and we'll get you fixed right up."
All this does is start us down a really shitty road; one that leads to nowhere but riots in front of government buildings when we end up broke-ass broke.
I have nothing against unemployment, or those who draw it, IN THE FORM IN WHICH IT WAS CREATED. Now, instead of a tax payed by your employer, to give you a cushion BETWEEN jobs, it has been hijacked by the Fed's and turned into a welfare program.
I also feel for those posters defending the extended benefits. But don't you see that this is just one early example of the "kicking the can down the road" avoidance of what's coming? Where the Hell is Mako when you need him?
Of course nobody wants to work at minimum or lower wage jobs. But, when that's all there is, you roll up your fucking sleeves and get after it. And when it won't make ends meet, you turn to family, neighbors, friends, church, or community, and you WORK TOGETHER to make it alright.
It's a wonder anybody survived before entitlements. Benjamin Franklin once said (paraphrasing), that, "The best thing you can do for the poor man is to make him uncomfortable in his poverty." +28,000 to that.
Junk Away.
I'd "anti-Junk" this comment if I could.
Double unjunked!
And this is why Mako is right. Our communities have collapsed. We are alone in a room full of people - quiet desperation. The Pain Train is on the way. Woo woo!
http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=uV9bms_o9nc
Right on man. Unjunk +3
free abortions might work... junk away.
yes, those folks are starting to take food from my mouth, but I don't get the luxury of "bennies". I don't mind helping out people who are truly disabled, or, are "temporarily" out of work, they/their employer paid for their unemployment bennies. But, once you run out of that money, you MUST go back to work, otherwise, you are taking money from MY struggling family.
i understand you're stand on you're own two feet ideas... but everyone has events come along where the ground they once stood on has been weakened. Not every person has others they can rely on, nor can others help them because they too are broke. It is the responsibility of the state , as being representatives of All citizens to create the means of self relience , if the state cannot cause business to grow and prosper than the state must , by default, have safety nets . This is the cause of a failure to help business not the result of lazy citizens.
Excuse me, I didn't have anyone else to rely on, that is why I had to do it for myself. The State/Feds can fuck themselves, they are the ones who have made my struggle in life more difficult. And it is happening again. The State/Feds, any government should not be "creating" businesses, PEOPLE should.
Agreed.
What's the difference between WPA in the 30's and today?
You're employed by the gov't but you don't have to go to work.
Of course governments should not create business... when has that happened? But government is the social arm of the peoples rights and views, it is the responsibility of good government to seek out ways to help business grow and prosper, then the citizen has more opportunity. Nice that you never needed help but thats you're story not all of America.
No it isn't.
Obviously, Segestan must work for the government. Government has taken over business, or, rather GS has taken over government and is wiping out competition. Gov "blesses"/punishes biz all the time and, yes, government does create bizzes, directly and indirectly. the MIC is perfect example.
Don't make foolish assumptions. Been in the construction industry for over 40 years. Government is suppose help represent the interest of it's citizens. Some citizens are labor other business owners, government is a tool of these person interest. Government has not created business rather they have attempted to represent those who have an interest in business and social order. I'm not in favor of government running business , but sometimes as a back stop to mass unemployment and the lose of whole industries government does have a great responsibility. You're view of wipping out competition has little merit when whole American industry has been sold out to third world labor. In my view American government means to represent Americans not some global order or big international agendas. I don't agree with what we have only that government is for the people by the people.
Yep. That's where the trouble begins. When the gov't starts to multiply like Agent Smith.
"Mr. Anderson. Do you have a permit for that kool-aid stand? I didn't think so."
Your stupidity leaves me speechless. Who is it that wiped out/sold out to "third" world? Gov and big business. Wasn't me, I employ people in this country. Government doesn't represent me, they actively try to put me out of biz. If you are dumb enough to believe that any bureacracy (public or private), in the long run, does anything for anybody except to perpetuate itself, you are a fool. And I include Unions in that category.
The government you speak of is not the same one I speak of. I agree with you that government and big business sold out. no issue from me. But none of the stupid policies to date removes the responsibility of representative government. Representative government means that you and you're business have support in place through government. You sure like to assume way more than you understand about my views.. stop assuming you know.
Look at Dayton, even closer than Columbus. GM is gone, NCR is gone, but the government contractors and a Yale-like University of Dayton are expanding.
It's degree, clearance, or "STFU and collect your welfare check".
Rome degenerated into Italy...Alexander's Macedonian Empire left us Greece... It's only logical that the U.S. Empire would degenerate into something resembling a welfare state populated by fat, lazy, unemployed hedonists that live off a black market economy and are ruled by a wealthy, corrupt Elite. It will need a new name though...
Fleece?
Nice!
+1
How about...Twinkietopia
Californialand
faustian bargain
Jesusland.
Shitopia. (bitchez)
What are you talking about? Rome degenerated into Italy? Alexander left us Greece? Please educate you're self before insulting those who are long dead, who now cannot even defend themselves against ignorant jackass's such as you're self.
A) I was being somewhat facetious.
B) After an Empire runs its course, the polities left behind are mere ghosts of glories past with great food, wonderful museums and monuments and lots and lots of welfare to go around. Or they disappear entirely as per the Mayans. 2012. Mark your calendar.
OK... But change is a part of living and dying, apart of our social constructs, these come and go with our eras ideas and abilities. It takes great men with great ideas and the personal conviction to build those ideas and dreams into what is latter defined as an empire, but it only takes ignorant fools a short while to bring them back down to ground zero.
Agreed.
California.
Not to be a party pooper and inject some raw information without a bias, but actually the unemployement extention was passed by the house and NOT the senate, and as thus extended unemployment will expire for anyone on it during the summer recess of congress as of now. Someone may come up with a stick save on this, but it will have to be an executive order or something.
It happens every time. Then the press get it and reports of all unemployed without
free dough, and the senate comes to the rescue.
The fact that something usually resolves in a similar manner eventually doesnt mean that headlines proclaiming it as already resolved and bemoaning its consequences is even remotely accurate. I'm a bit dissapointed in ZH the last few weeks. Its becoming more like Fox News every day, in that its information is increasingly selective, if not downright manipulated to cater to its core audience. I came here initially to get accurate information, and now the good guy railing against propaganda is just becoming a propaganda generator for another ideology. Its a shame....
Make people work for the unemployment benefits. There are lots of things the government can have done by the new slave labor class.
metastar
It was tried with Welfare. Racism was claimed supposedly because a disproportinate amount were minorities.
Sure, make em work and take drug tests.
Some countries all do this, with questionable success:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_for_the_Dole
Of course someone would argue that by making people do useful work for their handouts that you're taking away useful work from someone else...
They could be doing the jobs the illegals are doing. Some people actually want a job and like working rather than looking at it as a handout.
Although it would become a little socialist though.
Make people work for unemployment benefits? Well then, would'nt they be employed?
Commander Cody
Better yet that is the exact same scenario people here bitch about, the government as employer.
Government paying people to not work, and government paying people to work (employer of last resort). Sounds like a moral dilema. Maybe you should follow the train of thought, and figure out what is the source of this dilema. The common theme is "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help you".
The problem we have now is that we either go further down the rabbit hole, or unwind the whole mess. But how do you unwind something that took 100 years to create? It will either take another 100 years of proactive unwinding (we didn't wake up one day to a full-on socialist state), or it will happen suddenly as the system simply implodes under its weight.
Obviously it's easier to keep it going another few decades, until you won't be around to have to deal with the fallout.
Cognitive dissonance it is.
Hi Howard is that you? It's been a long time. Care for a game of Wei-Chi?
Yea, like an inmate picking up trash alongside the highway.
Criminals must repay their debt to society, trash picking is a good way. Not completely analogous to the unemployed though.
Right, to the tune of 35K per. Approx 3 million in prison. That is a lot of
debt on society.
Your right, if they had any pride they would volunteer to help those of us that are footing the bill.
By all means, let's give the central government more control over people. That'll help so much.
Make them CEO at bp or massey coal !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CEO tax now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
+13T NOT JUNK
BINGO! My repair business has been directly affected by the housing bust. Then they decide to give cash for appliances. Wel guess what.... I feed my kids with the money my hsband makes repairing the old ones. my head almost explodes thinking about my tax dollars going to tax breaks for people who buy new. That is the goernment picking the makers over me and forcing me to fund my own demise.
Anyway... we work longer hours now for less. I clean my own house now and my husband mows the lawn. So I think any maids or landscapers on unemployment this summer can high tail it over to my house and take some of the chores away from us so that we can work more to feed us ALL!!!!!
You had me for a second - but seriously - your own house?
If you must know, we lease this property and have a house and business here. I can leave in 30 days if i need to downsize. We both quit our jobs in 06 to start this business and business was GREAT. WE could have bought a half million dollar home and payed for it no problem in 07. I resisted the temptation because I was scared that if something changed we would lose everything. So yeah I'm pretty pissed about the bailouts!!!!!!
Like I've said before, I have family with land and have the option of building there if all else would fail.
Does it even matter? What's another $30B?
Yeah, I was going to say, we barely even blink at little numbers like that these days.
Just a mere bag of shells Alice..a mere bag of shells.
$30B here, $200B there, pretty soon you're talking about real money.
Continued unemployment benefits is one of the few things these clowns have done that I can support.
Oh I get it...you're saying 'bring on the default!' There's a certain logic to that.
So, what is the longest anyone can be on unemployment?
If the 99 weeks is up, and they extend thru Nov, does that officially mean we are up to 125 weeks now?
And I'm supposed to feel bad for someone that gets cut off from Barry's nip after 2 years?
101 years and c...
No. You should feel scared, because they will take your money to feed the kids.
You will really enjoy the pistol whipping.
So, what is the longest anyone can be on unemployment? but usa has money to bail out southern gulf states losers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if southern gulf states want off shore oil drilling let bp and southern states pay for it !!!!!!!!!!
On the other hand, when Obama next wonders why nobody in America works any more, he may want to reevaluate that 6 million unemployed people in the US are now encouraged to be on government payrolls for two years.
But in fairness to a guy who otherwise does not deserve much fairness, there's no jobs for any of these people and $400 bucks a week doesn't exactly buy a lot of iPads.
It sure does if you squirt out several babies and live in the right municipality!
Dup.