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This Is The Government: Your Legal Right To Redeem Your Money Market Account Has Been Denied
- Agency Paper
- American International Group
- Bank of Japan
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- Prudential
- Quantitative Easing
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- Reserve Fund
- SAC
- Securities and Exchange Commission
- Shadow Banking
- Swiss National Bank
- Trichet
- Volatility
- Yield Curve
When Henry Paulson publishes his long-awaited memoirs, the one section that will be of most interest to readers, will be the former Goldmanite and Secretary of the Treasury's recollection of what, in his opinion, was the most unpredictable and dire consequence of letting Lehman fail (letting his former employer become the number one undisputed Fixed Income trading entity in the world was quite predictable... plus we doubt it will be a major topic of discussion in Hank's book). We would venture to guess that the Reserve money market fund breaking the buck will be at the very top of the list, as the ensuing "run on the electronic bank" was precisely the 21st century equivalent of what happened to banks in physical form, during the early days of the Geat Depression. Had the lack of confidence in the system persisted for a few more hours, the entire financial world would have likely collapsed, as was so vividly recalled by Rep. Paul Kanjorski, once a barrage of electronic cash withdrawal requests depleted this primary spoke of the entire shadow economy. Ironically, money market funds are supposed to be the stalwart of safety and security among the plethora of global investment alternatives: one need only to look at their returns to see what the presumed composition of their investments is. A case in point, Fidelity's $137 billion Cash Reserves fund has a return of 0.61% YTD, truly nothing to write home about, and a return that would have been easily beaten putting one's money in Treasury Bonds. This is not surprising, as the primary purpose of money markets is to provide virtually instantaneous access to a portfolio of practically risk-free investment alternatives: a typical investor in a money market seeks minute investment risk, no volatility, and instantaneous liquidity, or redeemability. These are the three pillars upon which the entire $3.3 trillion money market industry is based.
Yet new regulations proposed by the administration, and specifically by the ever-incompetent Securities and Exchange Commission, seek to pull one of these three core pillars from the foundation of the entire money market industry, by changing the primary assumptions of the key Money Market Rule 2a-7. A key proposal in the overhaul of money market regulation suggests that money market fund managers will have the option to "suspend redemptions to allow for the orderly liquidation of fund assets." You read that right: this does not refer to the charter of procyclical, leveraged, risk-ridden, transsexual (allegedly) portfolio manager-infested hedge funds like SAC, Citadel, Glenview or even Bridgewater (which in light of ADIA's latest batch of problems, may well be wishing this was in fact the case), but the heart of heretofore assumed safest and most liquid of investment options: Money Market funds, which account for nearly 40% of all investment company assets. The next time there is a market crash, and you try to withdraw what you thought was "absolutely" safe money, a back office person will get back to you saying, "Sorry - your money is now frozen. Bank runs have become illegal." This is precisely the regulation now proposed by the administration. In essence, the entire US capital market is now a hedge fund, where even presumably the safest investment tranche can be locked out from within your control when the ubiquitous "extraordinary circumstances" arise. The second the game of constant offer-lifting ends, and money markets are exposed for the ponzi investment proxies they are, courtesy of their massive holdings of Treasury Bills, Reverse Repos, Commercial Paper, Agency Paper, CD, finance company MTNs and, of course, other money markets, and you decide to take your money out, well - sorry, you are out of luck. It's the law.
A brief primer on money markets
A very succinct explanation of what money markets are was provided by none other than SEC's Luis Aguilar on June 24, 2009, when he was presenting the case for making even the possibility of money market runs a thing of the past. To wit:
Money market funds were founded nearly 40 years ago. And, as is well
known, one of the hallmarks of money market funds is their ability to
maintain a stable net asset value — typically at a dollar per share.
In the time they have been around, money market funds have grown
enormously — from $180 billion in 1983 (when Rule 2a-7 was first
adopted), to $1.4 trillion at the end of 1998, to approximately $3.8
trillion at the end of 2008, just ten years later. The Release in front
of us sets forth a number of informative statistics but a few that are
of particular interest are the following: today, money market funds
account for approximately 39% of all investment company assets; about
80% of all U.S. companies use money market funds in managing their cash
balances; and about 20% of the cash balances of all U.S. households are
held in money market funds. Clearly, money market funds have become
part of the fabric by which families, and companies manage their
financial affairs.
When the Reserve fund broke the buck, and it seemed like an all-out rout of money markets was inevitable, the result would have been a virtual elimination of capital access by everyone: from households to companies. This reverberated for months, as the also presumably extremely safe Commercial Paper market was the next to freeze up, side by side with all traditional forms of credit. Only after the Fed stepped in an guaranteed money markets, and turned on the liquidity stabilization first, then quantitative easing spigot second, did things go back to some sort of new normal. However, it is only a matter of time before the patchwork of band aids holding the dam together is once again exposed, and a new, stronger and, well, "improved" run on the electronic bank materializes. It is precisely this contingency that the SEC and the administration are preparing for by "empowering money market fund boards of directors to suspend redemptions in extraordinary circumstances to protect the interests of fund shareholders."
A little more on money markets:
Money market funds seek to limit exposure to losses due to credit, market, and liquidity risks. Money market funds, in the United States, are regulated by the Securities and Exchange Commission's (SEC) Investment Company Act of 1940. Rule 2a-7 of the act restricts investments in money market funds by quality, maturity and diversity. Under this act, a money fund mainly buys the highest rated debt, which matures in under 13 months. The portfolio must maintain a weighted average maturity (WAM) of 90 days or less and not invest more than 5% in any one issuer, except for government securities and repurchase agreements.
Ironically, the proposed change to Rule 2a-7 seeks to make dramatic changes to the composition of MMs: from 90 days, the WAM would get shortened to 60 days. And this is occurring at a time when the government is desperately seeking to find ways of extending maturities and durations of short-term debt instruments: by reverse rolling the $3.2 trillion industry, the impetus will be precisely the reverse of what should be happening, as more ultra-short maturity instruments are horded up, leaving a dead zone in the 60-90 day maturity window. Some other proposed changes to 2a-7 include "prohibiting the funds from investing in Second Tier securities, as defined in Rule 2a-7. Eligible securities would be redefined as securities receiving only the highest, rather than the highest two, short-term debt ratings from a requisite nationally recognized securities rating organization. Further, money market funds would be permitted to acquire long-term unrated securities only if they have received long-term ratings in the highest two, rather than the highest three, ratings categories." In other words, let's make them so safe, that when the time comes, nobody will have access to them. Brilliant.
The utility of money market funds has long been questioned by such systemically-embedded financial luminaries as Paul Volcker (more on this in a minute). After all, what are money markets if merely an easy, and 401(k)-eligible option to not invest in equity or bonds, but in "paper" which is cash in all but name (maybe not so much after the proposed Rule change passes). And as money markets account for a huge portion of the $11 trillion of mutual fund assets as of November (per ICI, whose opinion, incidentally, was instrumental in shaping future money market policy), $3.3 trillion to be precise, and second only to stock funds at $4.8 trillion, one can see why an administration, hell bent on recreating a stock-price bubble, would do all it can to make money markets extremely unattractive. In fact, the current administration has been on a roll on this regard: i) keeping money market rates at record lows, ii) removing money market fund guarantees and iii) and even allowing reverse repos to use money markets as sources of liquidity (because we all know that the collateral behind the banks shadow banking arrangement with the Fed are literally crap; as we have noted before, we will continue claiming this until the Fed disproves us by opening up their books for full inspection. Until then, yes, the Fed has lent out hundreds of billions against bankrupt company equity, as we have pointed out in the past). Money Markets are the easiest recourse that idiotic class of Americans known as "savers" has to give the big bank oligarchs, the Fed and the bubble-inflating Administration the middle finger. As you will recall, recently Arianna Huffington has been soliciting all Americans do just that: to move their money out of the tentacles of the TBTFs. In essence, the money market optionality is precisely the equivalent of moving physical money from TBTFs to community banks in the "shadow economy." Because where there is $3.3 trillion out of $11, there could easily be $11 trillion out of $11, which would destroy the whole concept of Fed-spearheaded asset-price inflation, and would destroy overnight the TBTFs, as equities would once again find their fair value. It is no surprise then, that the current financial system, and its political cronies loathe the concept of Money Markets, and have done all they could to make them as unattractive as possible. Below is a chart of the Net Assets held by all US money market funds and the number of money market mutual funds since January 2008:
Obviously, attempts to push capital out of MMs have succeeded: after peaking at $3.9 trillion, currently money markets hold a two year low of $3.27 trillion. Furthermore, the number of actual money market fund operations has been substantially hit: from 2,078 in the days after the Lehman implosion, this is now down to 1,828, a 12% reduction. At this rate soon there won't be all that many money market funds to chose from. While the AUM reduction is explicable through the previously mentioned three factors, the actual reduction in number of funds is on the surface not quite a straightforward, and will likely be the topic a future Zero Hedge post. Although, the impetus of managing money when one can return at most 0.6% annually, and charge fees on this "return" may be missing - the answer may be far simpler than we think. Why run a money market, when the Fed will be happy to issue you a bank charter, and you can collect much more, risk free, courtesy of the vertical yield curve.
Yet what is strange is that even with all the adverse consequences of holding cash in Money Markets, the total AUM of this "safest" investment option is still substantial, at nearly $3.3 trillion as of December 30, a big decline yes, but a decline that should have been much greater considering even the president since March 3 has been beckoning his daily viewership to invest in cheap stocks courtesy of low "profit and earning ratios" (that, and the specter of President's Working Group on Financial Markets). Could this action, whereby investors will no longer have access to money that historically has been sacrosanct and reachable and disposable on a moment's notice, be the last nail in the coffin of money markets? We believe so, however, we are not sure if it will attain the desired effect. With an aging baby boomer population, which would rather burn their money than invest in the stock market again and relive the roller-coaster days of late 2008 and early 2009, the plan may well backfire, and result in even more money leaving the shadow system and entering such tangible objects as deposit accounts (at community banks, of course), mattresses and socks. And speaking of the President's Working Group...
The Group of Thirty
When discussing the shadow economy, it is only fitting to discuss the shadow decision-makers. In this regard, the Group of 30, is to the traditional economic decision-making process as the President's Working Group is to capital markets. Taken from the website, the self-description reads innocently enough:
The Group of Thirty, established
in 1978, is a private, nonprofit, international body composed of very senior
representatives of the private and public sectors and academia. It aims to
deepen understanding of international economic and financial issues, to explore
the international repercussions of decisions taken in the public and private
sectors, and to examine the choices available to market practitioners and policymakers.The Group's members meet in plenary sessions twice a year with select guests
to discuss important economic, financial and policy developments. They reach
out to a wider audience in seminars and symposia. Of most importance
to our membership and supporters is the annual International
Banking Seminar.
Sounds like any old D.C.-based think tank... until one looks at the roster of members:
- Paul A. Volcker, Chairman of the Board of Trustees, Group of Thirty, Former Chairman, Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System
- Jacob A. Frenkel, Chairman, Group of Thirty, Vice Chairman, American International Group, Former Governor, Bank of Israel
- Jean-Claude Trichet, President, European Central Bank, Former Governor, Banque de France
- Zhou Xiaochuan, Governor, People’s Bank of China, Former President, China Construction Bank, Former Asst. Minister of Foreign Trade
- Yutaka Yamaguchi, Former Deputy Governor, Bank of Japan, Former Chairman, Euro Currency Standing Commission
- William McDonough, Vice Chairman and Special Advisor to the Chairman, Merrill Lynch, Former Chairman, Public Company Accounting Oversight Board, Former President, Federal Reserve Bank of New York
- Richard A. Debs, Advisory Director, Morgan Stanley, Former President, Morgan Stanley International, Former COO, Federal Reserve Bank of New York
- Abdulatif Al-Hamad, Chairman, Arab Fund for Economic and Social Development, Former Minister of Finance and Minister of Planning, Kuwait
- William R. Rhodes, Senior Vice Chairman, Citigroup, Chairman, President and CEO, Citicorp and Citibank
- Ernest Stern, Partner and Senior Advisor, The Rohatyn Group, Former Managing Director, JPMorgan Chase, Former Managing Director, World Bank
- Jaime Caruana, Financial Counsellor, International Monetary Fund, Former Governor, Banco de España, Former Chairman, Basel Committee on Banking Supervision
- E. Gerald Corrigan, Managing Director, Goldman Sachs Group, Inc., Former President, Federal Reserve Bank of New York
- Andrew D. Crockett, President, JPMorgan Chase International, Former General Manager, Bank for International Settlements
- Guillermo de la Dehesa Romero, Director and Member of the Executive Committee, Grupo Santander, Former Deputy Managing Director, Banco de España, Former Secretary of State, Ministry of Economy and Finance, Spain
- Mario Draghi, Governor, Banca d’Italia, Chairman, Financial Stability Forum, Member of the Governing and General Councils, European Central Bank, Former Vice Chairman and Managing Director, Goldman Sachs International
- Martin Feldstein, Professor of Economics, Harvard University, President Emeritus, National Bureau of Economic Research, Former Chairman, Council of Economic Advisers
- Roger W. Ferguson, Jr., Chief Executive, TIAA-CREF, Former Chairman, Swiss Re America Holding Corporation, Former Vice Chairman, Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System
- Stanley Fischer, Governor, Bank of Israel, Former First Managing Director, International Monetary Fund
- Philipp Hildebrand, Vice Chairman of the Governing Board, Swiss National Bank, Former Partner, Moore Capital Management
- Paul Krugman, Professor of Economics, Woodrow Wilson School, Princeton University, Former Member, Council of Economic Advisors
- Kenneth Rogoff, Thomas D. Cabot Professor of Public Policy and Economics, Harvard University, Former Chief Economist and Director of Research, IMF
and, of course:
- Timothy F. Geithner, President and Chief Executive Officer, Federal Reserve Bank of New York, Former U.S. Undersecretary of Treasury for International Affairs
- Lawrence Summers, Charles W. Eliot University Professor, Harvard University, Former President, Harvard University, Former U.S. Secretary of the Treasury
and many more. Given the choice of being a fly on the wall at a G7 meeting or that of the "Group of 30", we would be very curious to see who would pick the former over the latter. These are the people, whose "reports" and groupthink determines the financial fate of the world: their vested interest in perpetuating the status quo is second to none. Which is why we read with great interest a recent paper from the Group of 30: Financial Reform, A Framework for Financial Stability, released on January 15, 2009, deep in the heart of the crisis. While the paper has enough insight for many, non-related posts (we are already working on several), we will focus on the policy recommendations presented for money market funds.
Money Market Mutual Funds and Supervision
Recommendation 3:
a. Money market mutual funds wishing to continue to offer bank-like services, such as transaction account services, withdrawals on demand at par, and assurances of maintaining a stable net asset value (NAV) at par should be required to reorganize as special-purpose banks, with appropriate prudential regulation and supervision, government insurance, and access to central bank lender-of-last-resort facilities.
b. Those institutions remaining as money market mutual funds should only offer a conservative investment option with modest upside potential at relatively low risk. The vehicles should be clearly differentiated from federally insured instruments offered by banks, such as money market deposit funds, with no explicit or implicit assurances to investors that funds can be withdrawn on demand at a stable NAV. Money market mutual funds should not be permitted to use amortized cost pricing, with the implication that they carry a fluctuating NAV rather than one that is pegged at US$1.00 per share.
The phrasing of "with no explicit or implicit assurances to investors that funds can be withdrawn on demand at a stable NAV" should be sufficient to whiten the hairs of every proponent of money markets as a "safe" investment alternative. Yet what the SEC has done, is to take the Group of 30 recommendation, and take it to the next level: not only will funds not have explicit assurance of any kind vis-a-vis funding, but in fact, the redemption of said funds would be legally barred upon "extraordinary circumstances."
Rule 22e-3
Proposed rule 22e–3(a) would permit a money market fund to suspend redemptions if: (i) The fund’s current price per share, calculated pursuant to rule 2a–7(c), is less than the fund’s stable net asset value per share; (ii) its board of directors, including a majority of directors who are not interested persons, approves the liquidation of the fund; and (iii) the fund, prior to suspending redemptions, notifies the Commission of its decision to liquidate and suspend redemptions, by electronic mail directed to the attention of our Director of the Division of Investment Management or the Director’s designee. These proposed conditions are intended to ensure that any suspension of redemptions will be consistent with the underlying policies of section 22(e). We understand that suspending redemptions may impose hardships on investors who rely on their ability to redeem shares. Accordingly, our proposal is limited to permitting suspension of this statutory protection only in extraordinary circumstances. Thus, the proposed conditions, which are similar to those of the temporary rule, are designed to limit the availability of the rule to circumstances that present a significant risk of a run on the fund. Moreover, the exemption would require action of the fund board (including the independent directors), which would be acting in its capacity as a fiduciary. The proposed rule contains an additional provision that would permit us to take steps to protect investors. Specifically, the proposed rule would permit us to rescind or modify the relief provided by the rule (and thus require the fund to resume honoring redemptions) if, for example, a liquidating fund has not devised, or is not properly executing, a plan of liquidation that protects fund shareholders. Under this provision, the Commission may modify the relief ‘‘after appropriate notice and opportunity for hearing,’’ in accordance with section 40 of the Act.
Lots of keywords there: "fiduciary", "impose hardships" but most notably "permit us to take steps to protect investors." Uh, SEC, no thanks. We can protect ourselves. Your protection so far has resulted in the Madoff scandal, the BofA fiasco, billions in insider trading profits and not one guilty person, who did not manage to escape unscathed with merely a wrist slap in the form of some pathetic fine. With all due respect, SEC, any proposal that involves you acting to "protect" us should be immediately banned and any further discussion ended.
Especially in this case: what the SEC is proposing is simple - the entire market structure has been converted to a hedge fund. When investors hear the word "suspend redemptions" they envisioned a battered, pro-cyclical, leveraged, permabullish hedge fund, that suddenly "found itself" down 30, 40, 50 or more percent, and to avoid instantaneous liquidation, had to bar redemptions. Forgive us, but is the SEC confirming that the entire market is now one big casino, one big government subsidized hedge fund, where as long as things go up, all is good, but the second things take a leg down, just like any ponzi, nobody will be allowed to pull their money? Maybe Madoff should have created the same redemption suspension: his fund would still be alive and thriving, now that the government has become the biggest ponzi conductor of all time. And nobody would have been the wiser. But instead, the Securities and Exchange Commission, in discussions with the Group of 30, Barney Frank, and any other conflicted individuals who only care about protecting their own money for one more year, has decided, in its infinite wisdom, to make money markets a complete scam. And this is the gist of regulatory reform in America.
Conclusion
At this point it is without doubt that even the government understands that when things turn sour, and they will, the run on the bank will be unavoidable: their solution - prevent money from being dispensed, when that moment comes. The thing about crises, be they liquidity, solvency, or plain-vanilla, is that "price discovery" occurs all at once, and at the very same time. And all too often, investors "discover" they were lied to, as the emperor, in any fiat system, always has no clothes. Just like in September 2008, when the banks were forced to look at each-others' balance sheet and realize that there are no real assets on the left backing up the liabilities on the right, so the moment of enlightenment occurs are the most importune time: just ask Hank Paulson. Had he known his action of beefing up Goldman's FICC trading axes would have resulted in the "Ice-Nine'ing" (to borrow a Mark Pittman term) of money markets, who knows- maybe Lehman would have still been alive. Perhaps risking the cash access of 20% of US households and 80% of companies was not worth the few extra zeroes in Goldman's EPS. But we will never know. What we will know, is that now i) the government is all too aware that the market has become one huge ponzi, and that all investment vehicles, even the safest ones, are subject to bank runs, and ii) that said bank runs, will occur. It is only a matter of time. And just as the president told everyone directly to buy the market on March 3, so the SEC, the Group of 30, and Barney Frank are telling us all, much less directly, to get the hell out of Dodge. Alternatively, the game of "last fool in", holding the burning hot potato, can continue indefinitely, until such time as the marginal utility of each and every dollar printed by Ben Bernanke is zero.
h/t Geoffrey Batt
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Modern life, literally, has made us fat, dumb and lazy.
You're just re-discovering what it took to get us to where we are today.
I am Chumbawamba.
When I first learned of root-cellaring I was overwhelmed, then overjoyed for having consistently tried to learn more 'rustic' ways of living (even though I already thought I knew plenty), then overwhelmed again realizing I have no practice.
Nice tip for simple contruction methods!
It really is about re-learning what human beings did to make it through the winters. That's the rough part.
Maybe you have already read about it, Ms., but I was fascinated to learn that our ancestors just ended up sleeping a lot more during the winter - nobody had that many candles to stretch the day from 8 hours of sunlight back to 14! Winter was more about hibernation - if you were out chopping wood you were wasting valuable calories. They were much more in tune with nature. I enjoy modern comforts, and I don't see any reason to give them up because of the increased time I have to read, travel, work, etc. Having to cook meals from scratch and wash laundry by hand everyday would suck up so much time! But alas, to be prepared for a longer-than-expected bottleneck I feel I have the mindset; plus boardgames, good books, and rechargeable LED lights to stretch the day out.
http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/yago102.html
go to an auction. buy a light tower on a trailer. under $4000 3 cyl diesel engine 6000 watt 220v capacity, 1/2 gal per hour fuel consumption. the best part is portability. the ones, with a kubota engine are the best. most run at 1800 rpm, and they're quiet
Everything has its place. True, gold is not a survival item, and anyone promoting it as such is foolish. Gold is, however, a store of wealth, and a wealth preserver.
I am Chumbawamba.
stop, stop, stop with the Madmax, ok?
Argentina...power is on.
Even in Baghdad, during the war, there was power. And food.
Beirut, power during a civil war.
Life during "apocalypse" is not so bad as people envision. Things will not be convenient, sure, but even in Beirut during the height of the civil war, people went out, had dinner, fell in love, got married...life goes ON.
Stop worrying so much.
If you TRULY believe in the madmax scenario your #1 goal must be mobility. Your farm does no good if it gets contaminated. Putting down roots for the apocalypse is poor judgment. You must be prepared to leave anywhere at a moment's notice, the "Heat Rule," 30 seconds flat.
If things really were to melt down, expect radiological or chemical contamination in many places. What good is a nice farm if it ends up downwind from some sort of industrial accident?
You need to see this, chapter 8 and 9.
http://www.oism.org/nwss/s73p912.htm
Storing food long term is not as easy as it seems.
Thanks, I always enjoy your comments.
THank you TD and Zero Hedge for this. I rarely comment but have been reading your work since you guys were on wordpress.
Your work is read by more and more people than you will ever know.
Very grateful for all your hard work!!
Looks like a "Bank Holiday" will soon become a reality.
"THank you TD and Zero Hedge for this."
I notice this Geoffrey Batt fellow popping up on many of ZH's important posts. Anyone know who he is?
Google is your friend. Google knows everything.
This is from : http://www.spoke.com/info/p5y6laG/GeoffreyBatt
Make of that what thou wilt.
Not even close. Guess again.
Columbia University, Geoffrey?
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/geoffrey-batt/6/67b/426
Oh dear. Please do not bait the idle ZH masses.
I strongly suspect that, like "Tyler Durden", "Geoffrey Batt" is not even your real name. I just thought it amusing that the very first person with that name, as returned by Google, was the CFO of an industrial company.
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Really glad to read someone is going to do a series of articles on the Group of 30. If you google the individuals involved, you'll find that virtually every one of them has written articles in favor of a new world currency. That's their real aim.
World currency or North American currency?
I cant imagine a world currency though then again im sure Italy and Cz Rep couldnt ever imagine being stuck in their mess of a currency 20-30 years ago...
+ infinity...I dont play in the markets,im a paramedic..ZH is a gauge I use to try and judge where we are and were we are headed,though I dont invest I full understand the consequences of a failed economy.The Constitution was under attack before the ink dried,The Federalist won and since then we have been on a long slow road to Oligarchy.Alot of people here like to talk about the lamstream media propaganda,the biggest lie weve been told is that the "Forefathers" had a monopoly on democracy.The system has been broken since day one..read the anti-federalist..hopefully the model for a new goverment to arise out of the ashes of "The Republic"
Yes, dad beats us kids. He beats us to enforce the discipline he himself lacks. He smokes in the house and last year set the house on fire. The kids tried to escape but with frenzied belt whips, he forced us to stay inside and help him fight the fire, and yes, we managed to keep the whole thing from burning down, but much of the house is ruined now. And he will not stop smoking in the house, just a promise of more care is all. He's our dad, we'll tend toward obedience. But he still smokes in the house. We can all smell it. None of us feel secure. We really hate the reckless old shit now. John has left and Frank is about to. The little ones left probably couldn't fight off another fire, whipping belt or not. Dad still smokes in the house.
Tragic tale you tell of trauma survivors. Every now and again one of the children kills dad in his sleep when this sort of thing happens. Sometimes they do it to protect younger siblings, sometimes to protect themselves, and sometimes just to vent their rage at a situation they have no power over.
The killer is, the smoking is killing dad anyway. Just too slow for what those kids need.
Ha! Spit coffee all over my monitor!
This sounds like a passage from a novel I read?
It was just a spontaneous fiction as metaphor for a loss of trust in the system. The reprobate father would be elements of our federal leadership and the kids of course would be the torn and endangered citizenry. I should have made that more clear.
I thought it was clear no apology needed.
+1
You left out the part about the molesting.
Bad touch!!! Bad touch!!!
I get it Rusty S, that is about the Government FUCKING US, when it should be PROTECTING US. Metaphor complete.
(You did need a straight woman for that routine, right?)
Given the events that have recently taken place all the following are possible by the fascist pigs that call themselves government (it certainly is not my government nor is there any sense of governing going on):
1) Limit teller transactions at banks during an emergency (they are already limited at ATM's)
2) Tax Roth IRA's and remove their exemption from tax-free profits (how much money is located in this pile to steal?)
3) Force 401k's to invest in government securities
The road undertaken can not lead to anything good. Things must be far worse than even readers of blogs like ZH are suspecting. This seems to be the worst of Argentina, Zimbabwe, Weimar, Stalin, Hitler, and Mao all at once.
It would behoove Ponzi addicted slaves (formerly known as citizens) able to do so to cash out their money markets, 401k's, IRA's, bank accounts and move them to some other country and buy gold in their stead while the opportunity is available. Even moving money from TBTF to community banks and credit unions is not enough but it's something.
Moving out of the US and renouncing citizenship seems to make more and more sense every day.
thomas j.
Moving out of the US
Jim Rogers already did this and Peter Schiff suggested it in his books. There is only one wat to punish a bankster: get the money from his bank and put it elsewhere.
Yes, Jim was ahead of his time. I'm sure Peter has the ways and means to do so if he wanted to leave the country. What about the average middle class person? They're perceived assets are tied up or cumbersome to access (Real Estate, 401k, IRA's, perhaps a small business, soon Money Markets will be on this list).
Where would they move if they could? Many people choose to live in areas not because it's their own personal preference but because they have family and friends there or the kids have relationships there. How willing are they to leave all that behind? How much impetus is required to force them over the edge?
What places grant citizenship to non-citizens? How long do you have to wait? How much does it cost? Who do you have to bribe? What languages do they speak? Do you agree with the weather and the food? How corrupt is the government? What about quality medical facilities and doctors? Are there opportunities available to make a living from a business or a job? Can you own a gun?
Even if you answer all those questions (and they are not trivial) there is still one vital question. How do you transfer your wealth safely to another jurisdiction? Most likely, your wealth will have to be converted to dollars and then transferred to a foreign bank and redeemed locally. US financial laws come into play.
This is what I am pondering now. I have many questions, few answers. Forget about the poor, unemployed, and those with no assets. They're royally screwed.
You are right about the banksters. The questions is: Where is elsewhere?
thomas j.
Northern Mexico or Southern Canada if you still want to feel have the US close to home.
I cant speak for Mexico though i travel there every year, but citizenship in Canada takes 1 year if you have a stable job, a bit longer if youre unemployed. Guns are hard to own (legally) but then again your need for owning one is dimished as well.
Depending on whether your on the East or West coast of the US, Toronto or Vancouver are the 2 cities id suggest looking into. Mind you you guys really are our big brother and whatever obamanation decides, we follow.
During the Vietnam War Crime, Canada was a safe-haven for AWOL Americans. Nowadays they send them back. If it wasn't for the rampant crime and murder in Mexico I would actually feel safer there. In fact, I'd rather face down some street thugs than a government any day.
Of course, all the bad press highlighted out of Mexico these days may well be a ploy to make people THINK there's no escape. Mexico is a big place; lots of opportunities to get lost there.
Gold can still be taken out of the country without any hassle. I've read anecdotes from people who have carried thousands of dollars of bullion with them through airports exiting the country with no problems. YMMV so do your research.
I am Chumbawamba.
What about the Bahamas? Or would they be also adversely impacted by a USD currency devaluation, as they are on a 1:1 par value BAD:USD?
Rule of law is critically important, and the Bahamas aren't perhaps an A+ country in that respect.
I would look at larger countries if possible (e.g. New Zealand, Norway, Ireland). You might also want to consider Panama.
@thomas First, I'm going on a strict protein diet, then I'm hitting the gym every day for two hours, and then (my gold) and me will be ready to move to the Canary Islands and become an ES swimwear model. Yup, there's a plan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn6Xo1kqpJY&feature=fvw
@ Careless Thank you for the laugh, even in times like this. I'm male, but too short and old to be an ES swimwear model.
@ Everyone Thanks for all your responses. I am going to look into Canada, Mexico, NZ, Norway, Ireland, Bahamas, Panama, and all the other places listed here. I'll post my results in a few days.
Loyalty, honor and self respect bid me to stay, come what may.
When my wife got bitchy i didnt leave her either. This country i have aged in too many years. Never had much use for borders, politicians come and as will this system . After the fall , those of us with assets will restart industry. Gold and silver is one asset we hold not only for ourselves but our community.
How will we rebuild without collateral to hire and purchase?
So some of us must have the burden of keeping actual, real silver and gold.
Tungsten might come in handy too.!lol
I could have written your words (and have before).
Thanks!
I am Chumbawamba.
As an experiment,on 3 different occasions,
I have went through airports, IAD included,
with 20K in maples sitting in my carry on.
Didn't even raise an eye brow. I was a bit surprised.
These were domestic flights though, haven't
tried leaving the country with them.
I don't think the maples would survive a round trip
to Mexico!
Interesting that no flags were raised. And I have my doubts about the factualness of that comment. Because my experience was exactly the opposite.
On a domestic trip to celebrate a brother's 50th birthday several years back, in my carry-on bag was my gift. I was giving him a roll of (pre 1965) 90% silver quarters. TSA was all a tizzy after they scanned my carry-on bag. Made me open the bag and the "Centrum Silver" vitamin package in which they were concealed.
I'm not so certain 20 x 24k maples wouldn't sound the alarms, even louder.
You can travel domestically with as much money as you would like. Do not try that on international trips; if not declared it will be seized leaving the US or upon arrival when clearing foreign customs (it must be declared in each country).
Some poor SOB lost over a million in bullion crossing into Canada a few months back.
I have also carried souvniers thru customs and mine were always seen in the scanner. I usually had them in my briefcase and never thought to take them out. The recent immigrants who made up the security staff were always eager to see them. Face value on a maple is $50. Thats the confiscation value and the export value in theory.
I already researched this and posted my findings earlier in this thread:
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/government-your-legal-right-redeem-your...
In essense it's an issue of cross-border transfer, and of valuations exceeding $10,000. I'd be certain to include a reasonable buffer under the limit, as getting nailed on this is a pretty big thing...
you could drive into mexico, with a large amount of gold, no problem. they usually only check suspicious vehicles, coming into the US. p.s. I tried to buy some silver in tijuana, only found 1 coin shop, and the price was higher than US. the cops are almost all, small time thiefs, taking cash after threats of vehicle impoundment, or arrest. you don't have to do anything wrong, but speaking a little spanish helps. taxes, and fees are low, no sales tax. If you were going to move there, befriend the local cops, learn about their families, they are just trying to survive too. I heard that base pay was $60 per week.
Thank you for the reply. Being close to the US would be nice but not essential.
I think Vancouver might be suitable. One thing that concerns me about Canada is the high tax rate (I believe they tax income and capital and have a VAT).
I don't know Spanish (yet) so I will temporarily rule out Mexico.
I'm going to put together a comprehensive list concerning factors that should be taken into account. Perhaps I'll blog it and allow others to share their thoughts on different locales so as many of us like minded freedom lovers can move.
thomas j.
Canadian tax rates vary dramatically by province. Alberta is far lower than Ontario.
Thanks Max for your comments. I wasn't aware the taxes varied by province.
thomas j.
It would be very interesting to see what you find.
I would also recommend to all 'freedom lovers' to ask themselves at what point they stand their ground and say, "This is our land!" I speak Spanish, Portuguese, and I can communicate in French and Italian. This opens up quite a few possibilities including parts of Africa and locales in the Pacific.
But where can you go when chaos abounds in most urban centers because of bank failures worldwide? It will be roulette. You can disappear into the countryside, but you will have to do a lot more manual labor (not necessarily a bad thing), barter in the native tongue and be at an initial disadvantage for not knowing local geography, key individuals, and the quality/availability of local goods and services. Where are you going to get healthcare, and are you really going to pay with a precious metal? That would get you a lot of attention - and not in a good way.
Your best move would be to find an established, like-minded enclave. Every big city has it's Chinatowns, 'Little Italy', etc. but you don't see 'Little America' neighborhoods. I think we will. Undocumented Americans abroad as third-world immigrants in the 21st century. Interesting, no? But again, you wouldn't want to be in an urban setting, at least to survive this looming reset, so maybe contacting friends and family willing to make the leap would ease the exodus.
I can give you some advice for learning a language without spending all the money for classes, tutor, etc. By all means use every resource available to program your mind for a second tongue, but realize that to achieve natural fluency in a short period of time it requires you to really hit the books. The single most important thing you can do is to sit down with a book in the target language (a familiar novel is recommended, but even the Bible works (two birds with one stone for the Christians our there)) and read out loud 30 minutes a day. Write down unfamiliar words and check your dictionary. Watch DVDs with subtitles, or better yet, watch familiar titles dubbed and subtitled. The more you challenge your brain the more quickly you will see results. Now this is quite obvious for many, I only list my methods. Many sites like About.com provide grammar basics (if not plenty more). If the language you are learning isn't romanized you will definitely have to seek out audio lessons to practice perfectly your daily 30-minute read. It's like boot camp at first, but I promise the words will be at your fingertips within weeks. iTunes provides a wide range of free podcasts for learning Mandarin, Spanish, German, etc. I used to listen to music while going about my day - now it's French news programs. I'm not fluent, yet. Learning a new language doesn't have to be expensive or all that time consuming. Weave it into your daily activities and it will come naturally.
A note on Spanish. For all of those remaining there is very, very large percentage of Latinos that have been kept in backrooms and working late shifts. They are kept from view most of the time. Imagine the value in being able to freely communicate with this enormous underclass which will be thrust onto front stage with everyone else. These immigrants bring many, many pragmatic skills that have all been specialized away from the average American. Learn Spanish.
As for me - I'm here for the long-haul. Molon labe.
Yes?
there are many expat communities in mexico, and an electronic translator can be had for $20. foreign TV is a good language teacher,so is a girlfriend.
WaterWings,
I am not sure if you are checking the thread. I promise to bring the topic up when Marla hosts open threads again if you miss it.
Some time ago I came across www.prosperity.com. Google it first so you know it's not spam. Sorry, I don't know how to embed links in ZH yet.
There is a list of 104 countries using 9 sub-indexes (Economic Fundamentals, Entrepreneurship and Innovation, Democratic Institutions, Education, Health, Safety and Security, Governance, Personal Freedom, and Social Capital).
The list is customizable by sub-index and can be found here:
http://www.prosperity.com/rankings.aspx
Based on the 2009 rankings (simple average of the 9 sub-indexes) the Prosperity Index lists the following countries in ascending order (lower being better)
1 Finland
2 Switzerland
3 Sweden
4 Denmark
5 Norway
6 Australia (#1 last year)
7 Canada
8 Netherlands
9 United States (Tied for 4th last year)
10 New Zealand
11 Ireland
18 Hong Kong
23 Singapore
41 Brazil
42 Panama
43 Mexico
45 India
69 Russia
75 China
This is as good start as any I have found. I have to dig deeper to see what affects each sub-index.
To those commenting that the US is a better place to live than most other countries that is true according to this index. We still have a chance, however slim, to enact change peacefully.
To everyone, buy gold and silver and sell US Treasuries, agency bonds (nationalized, as good as Treasuries) and municipal bonds. That is voting with your pocket with the chance to make profits. That's change you can believe in.
When you buy a US Treasury (directly or indirectly) you are saying it's okay to tax someone you don't know (usually upheld by the threat or application of force) so that some government can pay you interest. This is abhorrent in such an advanced society. Gold requires no external force, has no counter party risk if you own physical, and instead appeals to the intellect of man to voluntarily barter and trade based on what each has produced. Choose wisely, one will lead to violence and turmoil, the other will lead to peace and prosperity.
Thanks for listening to my soapbox. Now back to F-TV.
thomas j.
Oh, good stuff. My fellow Libertarians are hoping to keep US in the top 10 - at least the territories that don't fall under immediate control of totalitarians.
Thank you. I'm with you on that fight (you thought I wasn't Libertarian and a reader of Austrian Economics? I moved from New York City to some place more free). We have a tough slog ahead. Nullification of federal laws at the state level and selective secession is the best weapon we have.
"In it Calhoun predicted that in any democracy there would be two warring political classes, the net taxpayers (who paid more in taxes than they received in benefits from the government) and the net tax consumers (who received more in benefits than they paid in taxes). The tax consumers would inevitably outnumber and plunder the net taxpayers, which is why Calhoun believed a written constitution alone could never tame the state. Nullification, secession, or “concurrent majorities” that could veto unconstitutional legislation were needed, he wrote."
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/46312.html
thomas j.
Excellent! So you have probably already seen this:
http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2010/01/01/resist-dc-nh-legislators-...
I love that many of the NH eggheads are so pro-2nd! Imagine handing out felonies to the Fedz like speeding tickets. Go back to DC, BITCHES! If only we could lure the eggheads back out west - let them keep their weed.
Yes, I did see it. I'm all for it! The key is if NH passes and enforces the law. Jail time for some Federal Agents would be great and hushed up by the MSM. Other States will quickly follow with similar provisions. Can you imagine Hillary negotiating with States over the release of Federal Agents? I can't wait.
thomas j.
Sigh... when will libertarian wanna-bees get it?
First, the term "libertarian" originated with anarchists (back in the mid 1800s, you modern types didn't exist until the mid 1900s).
Second, modern libertarians will fall into the same trap that they now find themselves unless they can figure out that balance could not be achieved without admitting that there are limits to growth: this is, after all a finite world.
I once leaned modern libertarian, but found, upon deeper discovery, that it too would fail. Free trade and all is good, but un-briddled hording (capitalism) will turn troublesome (after all, that's what it's come to now- un-briddled hording- banksters [few elites] and governments).
NOTE: I'd say give it a go if we could ALL start from scratch. That is, if the banksters and government and ALL of us had to divy up and start equal. The clean slate would provide no one with any excuses in the future: after all, it's ALL stolen goods (and many were murdered for it). But... there IS this little issue of debt, and, there's also the issue that 2/3 of the world's population lives on $3/day or less- can we collectively balk at our debts AND hold back all These people?
I don't see what your point is or any practical solution you provide. Free-trade is fine and good for low-end libertarians; free-trade in a fiat currency/legal tender environment is doomed to the imbalances, busts, and booms currently taking place. Any good libertarian will know to secure one's rights and have the most personal freedom available is inextricably linked with a voluntary (non-governmental) gold standard. Economic freedom and political freedom go hand in hand. Are you saying there are limits to growth now in a finite resource economy? That's an Austrian position. The opposite (unlimited growth) in a finite resource economy is Keynesian. Obviously, Keynesianism is a huge FAIL.
Second, please dispute point by point the last two paragraphs I wrote two levels above. If you are unable to do so your position is not logical or consistent.
Separation of State and Money, similar to Separation of Church and State is now desperately needed.
thomas j.
Thomas Jefferson was a Libertarian. I think it's easy to get confused when you stray from the core purpose of the Constitution: the Bill of Rights.
You don't need economic models to explain freedom. But Keynesian economics requires its adherents to void portions of the Constitution.
A Fabian socialist is really easy to spot once you know what you are looking for.
ATMs and Internet Banking and Brokerage can be
turned off by Executive Directive under new laws.
Argentina, Mexico and Russia raided dollar
pension and bank accounts by converting them
to worthless Pesos and Rubles.
Many perpetual travelers find the grass is not
greener overseas and there is a whole industry
of cheats with no extradition who prey on
American expats who thought so...
http://www.jubileeprosperity.com/
So my guess is we should just take what the US government dishes out and suffer for their sins? I don't agree with that view.
Yes, there are bad places to live. There are good places also. Why should I support this level of corruption in the US? If I am able to do move and but don't do so given the conditions am I not saying deep down I'm okay with the corruption? How much corruption a person can tolerate is their choice. I am saying the corruption currently in place in the US is not tolerable.
thomas j.
"In your whole life nobody has ever abused you more than you have abused yourself. And the limit of your self-abuse is exactly the limit that you will tolerate from someone else. if some one abuses you a little more than you abuse yourself, you will probably walk away from that person. But if some one abuses you a little less than you abuse yourself, you will probably stay in the relationship and tolerate it endlessly." -Don Miguel Ruiz-
thats the end game. permanant destruction of the constitution and of all social and community institutions that give nation states their identity. run and there is no america. stay and pick a side and take your chances. there will be several choices and some will be only there for disruption. there won't be a shortage of misinformed dummies at any time in the forseeable future. your kids will stand a better chance than you but they need to be properly educated, street smart too. having 10 million americans show up in canada saying let me in will destroy that which is canadian and canada has its own secret police.
Not to be a complete tosser but you understand Canada is a sovereign nation, they are under no obligation whatsoever.....
Absolutely. World goverment, world currency will require the termination of the national identities of more than the US. This is the machiavellian playbook. illegal immigrant amnesties. the cracks are visible and they are everywhere
Cool, I'm also sure you are right about where this is going. Couple of things I think about though, where does this fit in with our lives. It could be few decades down the line before the the full machiavellian playbook arrives. Do you arrange a good proportion of your time on earth towards meeting this challenge?
Peaceful revolution just seems far easier and painful to me. How many people could you get to take a half day off work as a warning shot to your .gov
Listen, BAD systems fail! The bigger and the badder, the worser they will fail. Get it?
Any One World Government AIN'T gonna happen! The world is currently without the energy to sustain the lesser governments that currently exist. And, as energy diminishes and populations decrease, there will be less ability to maintain such a super structure.
Look to nature. The further we deviate from nature the less stable we become. We do not have enough energy to shield ourselves from entrophy.
Someone had a rather nice posting earlier in this thread about how we've pushed alchemy, about how alchemy has been about us trying to convince ourselves that we can turn lead into gold (etc. etc.). The moral of the story is that we should learn to believe that, despite how smart we THINK we are, we cannot defy nature: we cannot extract endless energy and resources from the planet with which to endlessly "advance." And, there are no gods and there are no masters: accepting either means anyone can be dominated, thus setting up classes and, ultimately, the justification for murdering one another.
ANy One World Government would be worse than the US government, but only because it was bigger. How much it would be worse is hard to say. But, I do not feel that it would be any reason to celebrate should a OWG fail to materialize AND we still have the governments that we currently have (with specific reference to the US government). Centralized control does NOT work: centralized power always becomes a target.
>>>ATMs and Internet Banking and Brokerage can be turned off by Executive Directive under new laws<<<
You just made a great point for why many investors and ordinary yet smart people are buying gold (and silver). Gold is compact, valuable and exchangeable in many localized paper currencies all around the world (or for direct barter).
GOLD BITCHES! (copyright Chumbawumba)
ATMs and Internet Banking and Brokerage can be turned off by Executive Directive under new laws.
And this is good for the dollar? You can't even keep your own bullshit straight.
Thank you, Mr. Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. I think we've heard enough government propaganda from you today.
I am Chumbawamba.
This is actually important, but quit plugging your website. Grass is not always greener (always a trade-off: climate, language, availability of services) and every country has a swindler underbelly that can smell desperation.
So a few Trillion transferred in to interest bearing checking accounts... who benefits from that?
If, after reading this, gold still doesn't make sense to you then there's simply no hope.
This is precisely why the smart money is getting in to gold now, to beat the crowds.
I am Chumbawamba.
Gold in 1999 at $255 beat the crowds.
Not so sure about now.
If we define smart money as the largest accounts,
they are 31.3% short gold and 15.9% long gold.
There's always hope...
http://www.jubileeprosperity.com/
Once again, I must defer to the Great Gordon Gecko:
No, not "Greed is Good", but rather, "You're an idiot".
I am Chumbawamba.
1. You don't know the big 4 positions in gold in the OTC derivatives market
2. They short gold to keep preventing its price going through the roof
3. Be happy they push the price down, it gives you the chance to buy cheaper
4. Within a few years you will be kicking yourself for not having listened to our advise
@ ATG dewd, you've been brainwashed. puuleeeze either read this book or start with video #1. you can handle the truth. really you can.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7auQEXTWomA
the delivery backlog, for gold and silver is 4-10 weeks, from major mints. silver coins are selling for $5 over spot at coin shops, and many of them are out of stock, just like the US mint. delivery is going to be a more important issue, than price, sooner than you think.
How about instead of electing our president by popular vote, we just set up every candidate with a public bank account and s/he who collects the largest sum wins the presidency. Then all the money could be applied toward the national debt. This seems much more straightforward than the current system, and would at least do some good in the process.
Presidents are elected by the Electoral College
and the largest fundraisers already win...
Ahh, but who keeps the money? What role would a lobbyist play under such a system? Anyone who doesn't think our system essentially works this way anyway is delusional, I'm just thinking eliminate the middle man. Corporations don't care how their money buys votes, why not guarantee the effect to the benefit of savers and future generations? I'm by no means capable of properly contemplating the outcome of this idea, but I'm so starved for actual change (BTW, never supported Republicracts) that I might be inclined to try it.
Wow, that's actually quite ingenius :)
I'll buy that (vote) for a dollar!
I am Chumbawamba.
I find your idea strangely intriguing...
Isn't that basically what happens now? Except for the national debt payoff thing.
Just think of the gaming here; would the auction be fair warning or ebay style? Could Warren Buffet snipe his way into office in the last femtosecond? How about if contribution limits were placed on any single "person", would "generous" corporations suddenly start donating to bums on the street? (and would we then call them "lobbyists?") One thing seems certain, it would gut Washington like a fish...
No doubt that money has replaced the vote - make it one FRN per citizen. I have a coworker that donated $1 for the company Holidays charity raffle. Many individuals donate hundreds of dollars, each FRN a chance at winning one out of 20 or so prizes - the biggest being a new Mercedes. This 'kid' walked away with a flat screen, to the dismay of many. The power of one. The ultimate in campaign finance reform. Although I don't think we'll have use for FRNs for much longer.
The financial terrorism continues. If you haven't done so already, it is time to pull all cash from money market funds.
Do not deposit these funds in a TBTF institution, as the funds will be at high risk. The best place to park money is in a local credit union, your house, or paradoxically, 3 mo. T-Bills via Treasury Direct. You can leave an unlimited amount of funds in a Treasury Direct C of I account as well. Also, if one does purchase 3 month Bills via Treasury Direct, you must defund into your C of I account, not a bank.
That 3 month T Bills were recently zero percent
and 1 month Bills negative yield suggests this
is a crowded trade. What happens when the
Treasury decrees T Bills will be rolled over
indefinitely, or maturities lengthened due to
force majuere conditions as happened last Fall?
The writing is on the wall. Cash is king...
http://www.jubileeprosperity.com/
It's possible. The C of I account can still be used however. At some point it is impractical (unsafe) to keep everything in your house. As I mentioned, local credit unions are a good alternative.
The one month or three month bill should not be viewed as a "crowded trade" however. No one is buying T-bills to get a return on capital, but rather they are interested in a return of capital. If the gov enacted force majeure and involuntarily rolled money into longer matuities, the integrity of the US would be destroyed and all capital would flee immediately, or at the earliest possible exit opportunity.
I know you know this but it needs saying. The integrity of the US has been destroyed long ago. The trick is most folks don't understand what it means yet.
Ammo & ammo components is king.
Tried to buy large magnum rifle primers lately?
www.midwayusa.com/
www.grafs.com/
+100
-1000
WTF exactly do you think you're going to use that ammo for?
Does your gun have serial #1 on it? If not you can be sure it isn't the only one out there.
Ammo is in short supply in NOT ONE collapsed society. You can pick up AK47s for $250 in Pakistan. Shooting your way to prosperity will not work. People think life is like a videogame...well, um, you don't get health packs and a retry. You take one round in real life and your post-crash lifespan goes to 0.
Better have gold to pay the surgeon with.
Uh, here is an example of a useless comment. Hey, if you're drinking out there it's cool, just be sure to disclaim it. ;-)
++ :)
Yes, but also know that mixing drink with massive doses of Xanax will end badly.
For subsistence hunting and trade.I think you are the one with the mind in the videogame.It is hard to take a deer down with bare hands.You also don't bother to mention how much money 250 dollars is in the mountains of pakistan.Or that entire villages there make AK clones for a living.
The inference you make that gun owners are itching to hunt people is disgusting and intellectually dishonest.
Those were all solid observations.
I shouldn't revel in another's misery but that was a thorough ass whippin' you put on em' Cistercian. You don't do that much. Just sayin' ;-)
Thanks :)
I don't do it that much.I am glad to see you posting more often.I was wondering where you went.I hope you are well!
It is only a matter of time before the US treasury is allowed to "suspend redemptions" capital controls soon!
I remember when I first put money in a MM fund, the Reserve fund, in the mid 70s. They served a purpose then, bank account interest was caped at 5% and the only way to get better was in a MM.
Riiiiight.
Also, 'interest bearing accounts' at banks -> no FDIC coverage.
Did you get a letter from your bank telling you the good news that they will now pay interest in your checking account?
YAY
-MobBarley
tricks, babies.
For those unfamiliar with what Kanjorski was talking about, take a look at the waterfall on this St. Louis Fed graph: http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?chart_type=line&width=1000&h...[1][id]=MULT
Man, after reading this, I need a stiff drink. I guess it was logical, given the sorry state of the economy, but it is still unsettling.
I am definitely going to invest more money in physical gold and silver. Keeping "cash under the mattress" also never sounded so good.
When the sh*t hits the fan, this is going to be so painful.
What are you going to eat and how?
Vietnam just banned gold trading after China
said it was ok to renege on derivative contracts.
The GATA group trying for decades to destroy
the exchanges by taking delivery of
copper, gold and silver might have better luck
if they encourage everyone to take delivery of
their cash during deflationary times...
http://www.jubileeprosperity.com/
What the fuck does ANYTHING you just wrote have to do with anything being discussed here? Vietnam banned gold trading? What's your source? Why does it matter anyway? China said it was OK to renege on derivative contracts...how is this good for paper money? If anything it demonstrates that paper monetary instruments can't be trusted in this day and age.
As an aside, do you have a hard-on for your Enter key, dude? Try using a browser that doesn't limit you to forty columns.
Your word of the day is "incoherent".
I am Chumbawamba.
You are out of control and annoying. Why don't you just go watch some football or something and leave this blog alone for 5 minutes.
When I read your message, it made me cry. Not because you hurt my feelings, but because it saddened me that your mother had to painfully stretch her beautiful vagina to squeeze out a lout like you.
I cried for your mom.
I am Chumbawamba.
+10.
Brutal!
I am laughing so hard I am crying...omg...that is absolutely too funny...thanks!
Mr. chumba, I've watched your expletives and meaningless inanities on this comment section and feel that you are a waste of cyberspace, if such a thing can exist. Still, I defend your right to spew forth and will NOT mark you, or indeed anyone, as offensive.
Thanks.
I am Chumbawamba.
GATA, Ted Butler and more are attempting to do what the law should be doing. What is being destroyed is faith in our government by the government itself. Jubilee.. do you work for Burnasske
As far as I can see isn't this only an "idea" or a "proposal"? I am not saying it won't happen. but it hasn't happened yet. Just don't want anyone to get all "wee wee'ed up"
Had to use that.
Sorry.
Dude, the writing is on the wall. Read it.
I am Chumbawamba.
If thats the case, then the Treasury will certainly confiscate gold again. See the Treasury letter to GATA
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1469728/posts
http://goldversuspaper.blogspot.com/2009/12/gold-confiscation.html
Implies a large percentage of holders in the 30's didn't turn in their gold. Also that gold paper holders are the logical victims of a government confiscation. If that doesn't work for you, their are a lot of small family farmers in the midwest that would love an angel investor.
I think people are not clearly thinking this through. If the SHTF and money becomes worthless, gold will be worthless too. The Government simply has to make it illegal to trade or barter with gold. It has already done so for marijuana. When you can be jailed for flashing a gold coin, you will use Government issued stamps for butter, bread and fuel... Just like everyone else.
The simplistic view that one can use gold when the $ = 0 isn't rational IMO. As long as the Government holds power, it has the means to make anything you currently own worthless as a currency. That includes gold, paper money or marijuana. Get used to it.
What you're not getting is that if the dollar crashes, the Federal Government has lost everything.
They are "all in".
If the dollar loses it's value, the federal government won't be able to enforce or declare anything.
Without the dollar, the Federal Government is just 535 idiots in some far away place.
Think of it this way:
You keep mentioning Marijuana.
Is marijuana worthless?
Do millions of transactions take place with MJ every day. - You bet, right?
Congress can declare something illegal, but it CANNOT stop commerce between willing buyers and sellers.
They can pass laws making eating against the law, but no one will stop.
It can pass laws stating that gold=0, but that doesn't make it so.
This reminds me of my recently formulated philosophy:
Anyone who has the wherewithall and resources to mint their own coinage can declare a sovereign nation.
In my case, I shall mine, refine, melt, and alloy my own metals, and then strike my own coinage. I think I deserve a state if I can do all that.
The beer in Chumbawambalia will be the coldest, and the women the hottest!
I am Chumbawamba, Chief Chef of Chumbawambalia*.
* the highest office in Chumbawambalia
I will bring my gold and we will be the jews in Chumbawalia.
I am much cooler in person
You're alright, trav ;)
I am Chumbawamba.
Five thousand years of history cannot be erased by some silly edict of some silly government...do you REALLY think some administration could simply DECLARE gold illegal and forbid anyone from trading with it? What about foreign currency? Or telephone cards? Or stamps? Or silver rounds? Or apples?
I'll meet you in the phone booth around the corner and trade you my 1963 Sandy Koufax rookie card for a dozen eggs - or is the state watching us?
Somewhere I read that there was never a true confication in the thirties. The government knew it wouldn't stand up in court if tested for property rights. The dumb ones turned it in, the banks coluded of course, and the smart ones buried it. Several years ago there were all kinds of interesting older independently minted gold and silver bars on EBAY. Really interesting stuff from a historical perspective. Its gone now but in the early part of the boom that old bullion came out of its hole.
Yep, it was all about control and reinforcing the use of the FRN. It just drove all gold out of sight.
A government confiscation that nails all the paper holders would be a great way to cover up that places like the COMEX are short of the gold they need to fulfill contracts.
Correct, I also only read "proposed" However, nice to know that ZH readers might get off the blocks sooner than the rest of the MSM viewing audience, if these proposals do become law.
[from 2 paragraphs above the MM funds graphic]...
"Further, money market funds would be permitted to acquire long-term unrated securities only if they have received long-term ratings in the highest two, rather than the highest three, ratings categories."
Cannot fathom...is this wrongly quoted or worded?
Is the confusion stemming around the word "they", as in does "they" refer to "money market funds" or to "long-term unrated securities"? Read it both ways and see what makes more sense. I think it refers to the latter, which would mean that MM funds would be able to acquire LT unrated securities if said securities are in the highest two rating categories. Basically, it seems to be lowering the bar for such acquisitions.
I am Chumbawamba.
a suitable logo?
http://i45.tinypic.com/erwx2p.jpg
Nice
http://i45.tinypic.com/erwx2p.jpg
nice find MC
Credit goes to Anon 181245, I just reposted the link so it would be live for all to click. My bad for not saying so.
Paul Krugman is a member and I don't believe much of what he says.
Useful idiot.
Which leads me to belive silver will do well, try buying a loaf of bread with a gold eagle.
Try buying a loaf of bread with a billion dollar B2 Stealth Bomber.
I am Chumbawamba.
"all the world's indeed a stage and we are merely players, performers and portrayers....."
Rush
It takes plenty to rattle my cage. I'm not sure what too so long to discover you guys but better late than too late.
F***ing with money market redemption is a cage rattling moment.
Welcome home Dirtt. Hang out. You should see what else they are fucking with.
One of my cage rattling moments was understanding that congress has actually debated seizing retirement accounts as an option. No they have not done it, but it blew my mind that they would even debate it. There was a time for me that was unimaginable.
Many veils have been lifted from my eyes since.
@MsCreant,
I just had my cage rattled; I'm going to repost this because this is unbelievable;
WASHINGTON -- US currency should include tracking devices that let the government tax private possession of dollar bills, a Federal Reserve official says.
The longer you hold currency without depositing it in a bank account, the less that cash will be worth, according to a proposal from Marvin Goodfriend, a senior vice president at the Federal Reserve Bank of Richmond.
In other words, greenbacks will get automatic expiration dates.
"The magnetic strip could visibly record when a bill was last withdrawn from the banking system. A carry tax could be deducted from each bill upon deposit according to how long the bill was in circulation," Goodfriend wrote in a recent presentation to a Federal Reserve System conference in Woodstock, Vermont.
The 34-page paper argues a carry tax will discourage "hoarding" currency, deter black market and criminal activities, and boost economic stability during deflationary periods when interest rates hover near zero.
It says new technology finally makes such a scheme feasible. "Systems would have to be put in place at banks and automatic teller machines to read bills, assess the carry tax, and stamp the bills 'current,'" the report recommends.
Goodfriend said in an interview that banks might place a kind of visible "date issued" stamp on each note they distributed. "The thing could actually stamp the date when the bill comes out of the ATM," he said.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/22172267/ASC-2009-Carry-Tax
Nothing says buy gold and silver quite like that.
Actually, hoarding all metals is a great choice now...and if you don't think that makes sense, wait a year.2 at the most.
EPIC CURRENCY FAIL IMMINENT!
Thanks for this, I commented on the first one, no lie, this is incredible.
Here comes rationing!
At this point, I seriously hope they try and do this. It will speed up the process. Hell, why not make currency spontaneously combust after a timer counts down to "0" and make it so only bankers can read the timer? Anything, and I mean anything, to frack the people and force them to pay rent.
Better yet, let's make every dollar a nuclear explosive device set to detonate at some indeterminate time, so that people will want to move those notes along quickly (velocity will accelerate to warp speed).
Eventually (but quickly) they'll make their way to enemies of the US and most will detontate in those places, killing two birds with one stone: inflation, and our enemies.
I am Chumbawamba.
Bills already have a date stamp.
Still think cash is king anyone? Like they can't freakin SEIZE IT?
There's ALREADY a gigantic apparatus set up to seize cash, it's called a SALES TAX.
The eDollar payments flow system tracks the movement of EVERY SINGLE eDollar in the system. Transfer from a business account to a personal account, the eDollar flow is tracked and a portion seized (income tax).
There is nothing that can be said about the illegalability or seizability of gold that can't be said twice for FRNs even in paper form.
- did I really repost this.?..
Can you provide what you think are some good links on this? Guess I could google it, but the best links are not always found on the first few pages.
What's worse, people are being lulled into a sense of complaceny by MSM mis-information and the reflationary efforts aimed at the equity markets (in defiance of all cash flow analysis or fundamentals). There is finite space of time for which the sapient class can prepare for what must inevitably and inexorable come. Do not procrastinate the day of ready-making. A destruction comes in an instant, unannounced.
Yep. Just like KATRINA.
We will be watching our TV screens in the same frozen horror.
Not to get all "tin foil hat" on ya'll, but it is seriously time to get prepared, because it will be each man for himself.
I'm not from the government, and I'm here to help.
You said,
"Yet new regulations proposed by the administration, and specifically by the ever-incompetent Securities and Exchange Commission."
The SEC isn't incompetent, per se, they are constructed and operated so as to be toothless, and feckless, and so they are. The SEC, like most regulatory bodies in the U.S., exist to give the appearance of providing a formidable watchdog service, nothing more. Such is life in our quasi-fascist kleptocracy.
When the Reserve fund broke the buck, it was something like 6 weeks before investors got any money back--even after the govt. promised to fully back MM funds. I believe it was many more weeks before investors were able to withdraw all their money. Even without rule 2a-7 history has shown us that the 'instantaneous liquidity or redeemability' pillar of MM funds is already gone.