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Governments Have Been Covering Up Nuclear Meltdowns for Fifty Years to Protect the Nuclear Power Industry

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Santa Susana

As a History Chanel special notes, a nuclear meltdown occurred at the world's first commercial reactor only 30 miles from downtown Los Angeles, and only 7 miles from the community of Canoga Park and the San Fernando Valley area of Los Angeles.

Specifically, in 1959, there was a meltdown of one-third of the nuclear reactors at the Santa Susana field laboratory operated by Rocketdyne, releasing - according to some scientists' estimates - 240 times as much radiation as Three Mile Island.

But the Atomic Energy Commission lied and said only there was only 1 partially damaged rod, and no real problems. In fact, the AEC kept the meltdown a state secret for 20 years.

There were other major accidents at that reactor facility, which the AEC and Nuclear Regulatory Commission covered up as well. See this.

Kyshtm

Two years earlier, a Russian government reactor at Kyshtm melted down in an accident which some claim was even worse than Chernobyl.

The Soviet government hid the accident, pretending that it was creating a new "nature reserve" to keep people out of the huge swath of contaminated land.

Journalist Anna Gyorgy alleges that the results of a freedom of information act request show that the CIA knew about the accident at the time, but kept it secret to prevent adverse consequences for the fledgling American nuclear industry.


1980s Studies and Hearings

In 1982, the House Committee on Interior and Insular Affairs received a secret report received from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission called "Calculation of Reactor Accident Consequences 2".


In that report and other reports by the NRC in the 1980s, it was estimated that there was a 50% chance of a nuclear meltdown within the next 20 years which would be so large that it would contaminate an area the size of the State of Pennsylvania, which would result in huge numbers of a fatalities, and which would cause damage in the hundreds of billions of dollars (in 1980s dollars).

Those reports were kept secret for decades.


Other Evidence

Well-known writer Alvin Toffler pointed out in Powershift (page 156):

At least thirty times between 1957 and 1985—more than once a year—the Savannah River nuclear weapons plant near Aiken, South Carolina, experienced what a scientist subsequently termed "reactor incidents of greatest significance." These included widespread leakage of radioactivity and a meltdown of nuclear fuel. But not one of these was reported to local residents or to the public generally. Nor was action taken when the scientist submitted an internal memorandum about these "incidents." The story did not come to light until exposed in a Congressional hearing in 1988. The plant was operated by E. I. du Pont de Nemours & Company for the U.S. government, and Du Pont was accused of covering up the facts. The company immediately issued a denial, pointing out that it had routinely reported the accidents to the Department of Energy.

At this point, the DoE, as it is known, accepted the blame for keeping the news secret.

And former soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev said on camera for a Discovery Network special ("The Battle of Chernobyl") that the Soviets and Americans have each hidden a number of nuclear accidents from the public.


(17:02 into video.)


Ongoing?

In light of the foregoing, the following quote from the San Jose Mercury News may not seem so far-fetched:


EPA officials, however, refused to answer questions or make staff members available to explain the exact location and number of monitors, or the levels of radiation, if any, being recorded at existing monitors in California. Margot Perez-Sullivan, a spokeswoman at the EPA's regional headquarters in San Francisco, said the agency's written statement would stand on its own.

Critics said the public needs more information.

"It's disappointing," said Bill Magavern, director of Sierra Club California. "I have a strong suspicion that EPA is being silenced by those in the federal government who don't want anything to stand in the way of a nuclear power expansion in this country, heavily subsidized by taxpayer money."

And see this and this.

 

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Sun, 03/20/2011 - 14:24 | 1079200 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

http://www.whale.to/b/mullins8.html

THE SECRET HISTORY OF THE ATOMIC BOMB
WHY HIROSHIMA WAS DESTROYED

The Untold Story

by Eustace C. Mullins June 1998

Ladies and gentlemen, I have attempted over several months to hit home the message that you have no idea who you are dealing with. Make no mistake about it. They will stop at nothing because they have no souls.

Oppenheimer was beside himself at the spectacle. He shrieked, "I am become Death, the Destroyer of worlds."

....THE JEWISH HELL-BOMB

The atomic bomb was developed at the Los Alamos Laboratories in New Mexico. The top secret project was called the Manhattan Project, because its secret director, Bernard Baruch, lived in Manhattan, as did many of the other principals. Baruch had chosen Maj. Gen. Leslie R. Groves to head the operation. He had previously built the Pentagon, and had a good reputation among the Washington politicians, who usually came when Baruch beckoned.

The scientific director at Los Alamos was J. Robert Oppenheimer, scion of a prosperous family of clothing merchants. In Oppenheimer; the Years Of Risk, by James Kunetka, Prentice Hall, NY, 1982, Kunetka writes, p. 106, "Baruch was especially interested in Oppenheimer for the position of senior scientific adviser." The project cost an estimated two billion dollars. No other nation in the world could have afforded to develop such a bomb. The first successful test of the atomic bomb occurred at the Trinity site, two hundred miles south of Los Alamos at 5:29:45 a.m. on July 16, 1945. Oppenheimer was beside himself at the spectacle. He shrieked, "I am become Death, the Destroyer of worlds." Indeed, this seemed to be the ultimate goal of the Manhattan Project, to destroy the world. There had been considerable fear among the scientists that the test explosion might indeed set off a chain reaction, which would destroy the entire world. Oppenheimer's exultation came from his realization that now his people had attained the ultimate power, through which they could implement their five-thousand-year desire to rule the entire world.......

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 18:18 | 1079652 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

You do understand that not everything is a Jewish conspiracy to rule the world...

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 16:59 | 1079520 Reptil
Reptil's picture

Oppenheimer was just one of a number of scientists that made this possible.

Another one is Edward Teller, who stood model for dr. Strangelove:

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Edward_Teller

 

I reject the adjective "jewish" in the article you quoted, since this has nothing to do with race.:-S

The Oppenheimer quote "I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" is from the Bhagavad Gita.

http://www.faktoider.nu/oppenheimer_eng.html

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 18:14 | 1079645 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

At the time of Manhatten, Teller was a comparative nobody, just another young smart guy running around Los Alamos... He "blossomed" later and knifed Oppenheimer in the back.

Oppenheimer is not appreciated by the general population, he was perhaps the finest theoretical mind home grown in the United States in the first-half of the 20th century....

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 16:39 | 1079481 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Rhodes has Oppenheimer whispering the quote from the Bhagavad Gita.

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=Rhodes&sts=t&tn=making+...

Of course, that book won a  non-fiction Pulitzer.  I have a good idea why this is "the untold story."

- Ned

{so WHY did they bomb Hiroshima?}

[ed. spelling]


Sun, 03/20/2011 - 13:09 | 1079009 dondonsurvelo
dondonsurvelo's picture

Nuclear is here to stay and I am happy for it.

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 12:56 | 1078967 Reptil
Reptil's picture

I've seen the rational response of the german government, spurred by the public reaction on the disaster in Fukushima. The situation in other countries may be under revision too. IMHO it's badly needed.

Here's a documentary from the filmmaker Alain de Halleaux about the french nuclear industry:

This horrific tale starts from the 1986 Chernobyl tragedy when hundreds of volunteer “liquidators” intervened courageously immediately after the accident to consolidate the site, so as to avoid a chain reaction, and were knowingly exposed to vast amounts of radioactivity. Today, in times when perhaps the nuclear debate generates considerably less fuss than it did in the eighties, cineast Alain de Halleux asks himself (and us) the following question: what would happen now with such “liquidators” if an accident was to happen? In Europe, and especially in France, he interviews the “ordinary workers” of nuclear power stations whose commitment and interventions guarantee the safety of the population in a wide surrounding areas. His enquiry reveals a disastrous situation. Having been set-up by large international groups, the stations now sacrifice their security measures to profitability. The security staff charged with verifying the installations are told to stamp their reports with a R.A.S. (“rien à signaler”: nothing to report), under the threat of loosing their jobs. Evidently, strikes and protests do nothing to help the situation.
R.A.S. NUCLEAIRE RIEN A SIGNALER reveals a disastrous situation by interviewing those who descend directly into the heart of the reactor in a sort of nuclear spacesuit at the peril of their health rather than the directors of the power stations. For, like many of us, they once believed in the democratic promise of the nuclear industry: electricity that is accessible to all.
Visions du Réel Nyon 2009

http://www.artfilm.ch/rasnucleairerienasignaler.php?lang=en

I haven't found an online source, subtitles or english translation (yet). After seeing it, it's clear that the next major accident is just a matter of time. Europe is as much as risk of it's own reactors blowing up, as are Russia, China, the USA. The idea that the french are now just as much in control of their nuclear industry as they were up till the nineties, is a myth. I doubt the situation is much better elsewhere.

As people like Van Rompuy (now appointed president of the EU), when minister of the country of Belgium have successfully circumvented the laws put in place by the previous government of Verhofstadt, and basically have given the nuclear industry in belgium a free reign, not much can be expected of the EU Commission IMO, they've proven to be corporate lackeys in areas as finance and gentech. The step to prolong the lifespan of the existing nuclear plants in Belgium was taken after publication of a report (GEMIX) that stated higher CO2 output (alternative: Coal Plants) and higher cost for consumers (in the short term of course), was inevitable when beginning the planned decommission of the nuclear plants

http://www.nuclearforum.be/nl/actualiteit/eerste-conclusies-gemix-rappor...

http://terzake.canvas.be/uitzending/terzake-210-belgie-kiest-voor-kernce...

http://www.ps.be/Source/PageContent.aspx?ParentID=884&MenID=19194&EntID=

Same as in the Netherlands, where long term democratic descisions (Brede Maatschappelijke Discussie) were ignored and in early 2010 it was decided (without referendum, which should be needed IMO to reëvaluate this widely carried descision) that a brandnew powerplant will be built. This was preceded by statements from the ABN Amro Bank president Groenink (pre-crisis) that the bank wanted a new discussion of nuclear powerplants, and was pushing for this. He also said that the politicians worldwide and nationwide then have to weigh the issue and take responsibillity, thus seeking absolution for the consequences of the bank's recommendation. (already covering his risk) It was not a subject in last year's election (as was a solution to the financial crisis), where the descisions of the Balkenende government could have been questioned. Basically we've not been asked this time.

http://www.rtl.nl/components/financien/rtlz/miMedia/2006/week31/ma_1600_...

http://www.rijksoverheid.nl/documenten-en-publicaties/persberichten/2011...

Given the fact that a radioactive cloud doesn't stop at the border, the initiative to come to safer use of this or other technology, must come from international or supranational intitiatives with real power to change or shelve it. Since the population seems numb and uninterested, and the elite focussed on greed and short term planning, and the (very expensive) lesson of Chernobyl ignored, the disaster in Fukushima may yet mobilise a movement to rethink the descisions.

MOREOVER IT MAY ILLUSTRATE TO MORE THAT THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY HAS BEEN EMPLOYED BY THE NUCLEAR INDUSTRY AND CANNOT BE TRUSTED. :-(

Readers may think I'm anti-technology. I'm not. I'm just collecting facts and present them to you alongside my personal (preliminairy) conclusions. The cost of cleaning up or the cost of the loss of biotope is not factored into the equasion, politicians, bank directors and scientists alike are kicking the can of contamination further down the road. In doing so, the REAL COST of nuclear energy remains hidden. Sounds familiar?

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 12:08 | 1078868 DavidC
DavidC's picture

Posted this the other day, one of ZH's classics.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/how-world-nuked-itself-over-2000-times

I wonder how much background radiation has increased generally since 1940...

DavidC

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 08:34 | 1078286 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

They hide the truth, GW, because, as you amply demonstrate, we can't handle the truth ;)

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 07:39 | 1078217 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Think the Chernobyl story is over?  The "sarcophagus" needs to be repaired/replaced and probably will need to be every 25 years until .... forever.  More importantly, a nuclear plume from Chernobyl is working its way underground towards Kiev and the river there.

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 07:19 | 1078209 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

China should be kicked out of the UN Security Council

China is the next Bubble to burst and the next Domino to fall, due to it's Cartel monopoly market, record of Human Right Abuses,Environmental Vandalism and a cruel and totalitarian fascist murderous Central Regime.

(Tienanmen Square Massacre,Tibet adused,widespread Human Rights abuses and Cartel market Economy based purely on fabrication and GDP Inflation)

China's Ghost Cities

Vast new cities of apartments and shops are being built across China at a rate of ten a year, but they remain almost completely uninhabited ghost towns.

It’s all part of the government’s efforts to keep the economy booming, and there are many people who would love to move in, but it’s simply too expensive for most.

Video journalist Adrian Brown wanders through malls of vacant shops, and roads lined with empty apartment buildings… 64 million apartments are said to be empty across the country and one of the few shop owners says he once didn't sell anything for four or five days.

So are the efforts to boost the economy going to end up having the opposite effect and creating a financial crisis for China?

WATCH - See his report this Sunday at 8.30pm on SBS ONE. The story will also be available to watch online later in the evening.

PHOTO GALLERY - Some satellite and street-level images from the Chinese cities, showing the scale of the construction and the empty streets. Thanks to Gillem Tulloch at Forensic Asia for the information.

VIRTUAL CHINESE COMMUNITY - SBS now has an online community for Mandarin and Cantonese speakers - click to find out more about this story on its website.

check this latest Story out from Dateline:

http://www.sbs.com.au/dateline/story/about/id/601007/n/China-s-Ghost-Cit...

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 09:48 | 1078425 BigJim
BigJim's picture

MmmmHmmm. And what's this got to do with radiation leak cover-ups?

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 06:23 | 1078174 prophet
prophet's picture

Found this and thought it may be useful.  I do not know if it is authentic.

http://www.worldvillage.org/fia/kinkyu_english.php

 

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 04:24 | 1078127 Bitch Tits
Bitch Tits's picture

Governments cover up for only one reason; they want to use the money for themselves, rather than necessary infrastructure. There isn't an accountable or responsible government on Earth.

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 16:14 | 1079420 penisouraus erecti
penisouraus erecti's picture

Excellent points, and reason why smaller = much better when it comes to government.

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 04:00 | 1078111 TexDenim
TexDenim's picture

If there have been this many acknowledged incidents in the US, imagine how many there are that we know nothing about in China and Russia. Yet measurable levels of radiation in the environment have not increased that much in the last 100 years, so it appears our planet can absorb these disasters -- at least to a point.

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 09:47 | 1078424 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Average measurable levels of radiation in the environment may not have increased that much in the last 100 years... but that doesn't mean there aren't a lot of spots with much higher levels as a result of all these accidents.

And that's just the accidents. Google "uranium mining contamination" and you'll see a whole other can of worms.

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 13:28 | 1079064 VodkaInKrakow
VodkaInKrakow's picture

When you hunt boar in Europe, you are required - by law - to have the meat tested for radiological contamination due to the fallout from Chernobyl. In recent years, in Europe, the radiological contamination from Chernobyl found in boar meat has been reported to be RISING. Twenty-five years after Chernobyl.

In addition, the background radiation absorbed by humans naturally, is also calculated to have risen three-fold due to Chernobyl. In the northern hemisphere, at least.

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 02:53 | 1077978 penisouraus erecti
penisouraus erecti's picture

Interesting nobody has brought up the above ground nuclear testing done out in Nevada, followed by tons of underground tests. Any fallout from that? The Las Vegas newspaper ran a series of articles around the Christmas holiday a number of years ago that was a real eye opener. And, it was probably pretty well whitewashed at that, so who knows how much radioactive material was dumped on the Dakota's and eastward from all that, yet the gubermint, which we all rely on on to solve all our problems, pretty much told the farmers that lost livestock and crops that they had no idea why that might be............

 

Interesting geography around this area......

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=nuclear+test...

Couldn't find the series of articles, but there are thousands if you do a search on nuclear testing from the Las Vegas Sun. Some randon samples would be:

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2000/mar/02/nuke-fallout-found-in-las-ve...

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/1997/sep/10/old-lv-attics-haven-for-radi...

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/1999/jan/24/tritium-stirs-concern-at-tes...

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/1999/jan/07/groud-water-plutonium-spurs-...

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/1997/dec/17/radioactive-threat-concerns-...

 

 

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 13:30 | 1079066 Flakmeister
Sun, 03/20/2011 - 13:25 | 1079048 VodkaInKrakow
VodkaInKrakow's picture

It is a known fact that water is not tested in Las Vegas for plutonium or uranium. At least it was when I lived there. Incidentally, plutonium was found in a man in Ohio after a nuclear test was performed in Nevada. Yes, it goes that far. Considering all the farmland downwind of The Nevada Test Site (think Nebraska, Oklahoma, etc.) and, yes, pretty much everyone in The US may be contaminated with some form of fallout from testing done over decades.

One study performed by the government by a think tank concluded that the Mid-West US was where most of the fallout would settle in a nuclear war with The Soviet Union. Though there is no way to verify the modeling.-

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 01:06 | 1077851 Mr. Mandelbrot
Mr. Mandelbrot's picture

Great, there's a nuclear hurricane whammy waiting off the coast of Georgia / South Carolina . . .  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1958_Tybee_Island_B-47_crash

 

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 01:57 | 1077988 BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

Thats good, u r a wikipedia traveller.

Not as good but ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavlov's_House

 

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 01:05 | 1077846 Mr. Mandelbrot
Mr. Mandelbrot's picture

Extensive list of American nuclear accidents (numerous "unofficial" fatalities here)

 http://www.lutins.org/nukes.html

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 01:13 | 1077872 George Washington
George Washington's picture

Mandbrot,  you're on fire! Thanks for all of the leads!

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 00:23 | 1077729 Kina
Kina's picture

I also note there seem to be sock-pupets active on ZH. And of course ZH is a place that would attract them.

 

There intention is to hijack threads, lead them into trivial argment over detail, lead off dowd side branches, anything to ensure the issue at hand isn't full explored.

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 00:59 | 1077828 Matte_Black
Matte_Black's picture

Amen. they hit this thread hard, didn't they?

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 09:41 | 1078413 BigJim
BigJim's picture

When you think of the interests at stake... the nuclear industry, the military, AGW alarmists, Statists... it's no wonder the article is attracting so many attacks. The sophistry and strawmanning in some cases is just breathtaking.

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 12:14 | 1078891 Matte_Black
Matte_Black's picture

+10 Good points. It makes you wonder how close to home this all hits for them. This struggle to understand the truth of things is not looked upon kindly. I suppose self-education has always been frowned upon by the ptb.

I do find it annoying though. lol...

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 00:28 | 1077683 Kina
Kina's picture

When governments and experts determine worst case scenarios they are invariably shown to have had poor imaginations, sometimes deliberately so.

 

The current situation in Fukushima is said to be coming under control and that the worst case scenario only show small regional effect. They cannot imagine how for example that conflageration could develop aka Chernobyl  and thus send dangerous particles over critical parts of Japan. They also probably didn't think those hydrogen explosions were ever going to occur either, but they did, more than once.

 

There are certainly scenario of 'unexpected' events that can make the worst case scenario quite awful, but of course they cannot speak of them lest the whole of Tokyo evacuate.

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 03:50 | 1078083 Escapeclaws
Escapeclaws's picture

One of the most interesting points made in "The Battle of Chernobyl" is that if the molten core had eaten its way to the water table, a nuclear explosion would have occurred that would have rendered half of Europe uninhabitable. This was covered up by governments. Another consequence is that the Volga and Dnieper rivers would have been destroyed, as well as the black sea, as well as the water table that supplies fresh water to about a third of the Russian population.

What also comes out besides the government lies that cost so many lives was the necessity for human workers to basically absorb lethal doses of radiation in order to build the sarcophagus. Now the sarcophagus is leaking radiation and is being repaired--the money needed is being raised by voluntary contributions. It appears that maintaining a nuclear reactor and decommissioning the same requires a country with a strong economy and lots of resources over possibly a hundred year timespan. What happens when economies tank and the necessary work can't be done? This should be considered a built-in risk factor but probably isn't.

On a more philosophical level, what gives these evil governments the right to lie to their citizens? "Well, we don't want to panic the population" they will say. Well guess what, the people of Chernobyl should have been panicked from day 1. Likewise, probably the Japanese should be panicked right now. Why? Because authorities lie. That's why people need to panic. I hope that, at the very least, pregnant women are leaving the area, just in case. I was amazed to see what even the most minuscule doses of radiation can cause in organisms in this film. Absolutely horrifying.

We really need to reconsider the prerogative of governments to conceal any information whatsoever from the citizenry. For instance, where in the constitution does the US government have this right? At this point, the greater risk is that information is concealed rather than that sensitive information is divulged. Perhaps it could be said that to the extent that any information whatsoever is withheld from the citizens, that government ceases to have legitimacy. This does not apply, of course, to protecting the privacy rights of individual citizens.

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 11:53 | 1078826 Seer
Seer's picture

Great points, which clearly tell us that the book on this stuff will be open for a LONG time!

Heck, people still think that WWII and the Cold War have ended, not so.  The US, last I noted, was still pumping billions to protect nukes in former USSR satellite countries.

We're good at lying to ourselves, about externalizing things (costs).  Too many people cannot see that they are caught (programmed) in positive feedback loops, lashing out at anything that resembles a negative feedback loop...

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 11:54 | 1078823 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

It used to be known as the Divine Right of Kings.  In the Age of Euphemisms, it has been necessary to call it by less obvious doublespeaks.

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." Denis Diderot

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 12:10 | 1078875 takinthehighway
takinthehighway's picture

Seems to me that so many of those who desire "freedom" do not wish for liberty, which is freedom with responsibility, but license to do as they see fit without recrimination...

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 13:36 | 1079078 VodkaInKrakow
VodkaInKrakow's picture

I have never seen a more precise statement of a Republican conservative's credo. +1

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 00:09 | 1077680 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

There has been no expansion in 30yrs. So I guess those silencing dissent haven't done a good enough job?

 

Guess setting back the human race more than any other group by denying the construction of nuke plants in the US for 30yrs isn't enough?

 

Let's make billionaires out of some more wind farmers who take more from the grid than they contribute. Maybe take food out of people's mouths for bio fuel? or how about lining the Arabs pockets.   

Chernobyl and TMI started with safety checks.

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 00:57 | 1077745 Matte_Black
Matte_Black's picture

You know, you actually make some very good points there, if I decide to excuse your hyperbole. I confess that I don't see a better short term solution to our current unpleasantness as regards global climate change, peak oil, financial collapse etc.

And, my first impulse is to say, screw it, we must keep the lights on... but then... I realize that the only reason I ever have the lights on anyway is so I can work more than I should. Otherwise, I go to sleep when it gets dark.

We need a new way forward. We can't sustain a permanent growth cycle. Nothing in nature does. It isn't natural.

Those starving children you are talking about are the products of a failed paradigm. In a natural world that wouldn't happen.

And, you don't give a fuck about any starving children anyway. Your obvious cut and paste proves that.

 

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 03:05 | 1078072 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

If you gave a shit about the supposed power crisis you wouldn't waste power posting on the internet.

WHo said anything about children besides the ones around here who always revert to name calling when actually confronted with anything that doesn't neatly fit into their chicken little world template?

 

Could you possibly be more wrong in that regard?

Modern society has created an obesity problem in a lot of the world.  People have immensly benefitted from modern agricultural technology not the inverse. But I get it,

left up to you folks we would still be crapping in holes in the ground and burning a fire to cook todays live kill.

 

As far as the rest just denying the earth is round,

if the US had 500 more nuke reactors that would be significantly less burden on every human on earth's life.

Stand up and take a bow, the anti nuke crowd who has seen to it no new reactors built since TMI even though no one was hurt there have stunted the entire human race more than any other particular group of individuals.

 

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 11:47 | 1078796 Seer
Seer's picture

I'm not "anti-nuke," just anti-stupid...

"People have immensly benefitted from modern agricultural technology not the inverse."

Now you've stepped onto MY turf!

As has been previously pointed out, most benefits have come as the result of improved hygene/sanitation (and even here I could argue, as our immune systems become innactive because they progressively become lethargic due to our external preemptive actions).

"Improvements" in agriculture are nearly ALL predicated on cheap, plentiful fossil fuel use.  Yes, some understanding of basic soil conservation parctices have been realized, but on the whole the bulk of volume (not quality) has occurred because of mechanization.  The Green Revolution will end up being the biggest failure in human history: it's helped push industrialized Ag's mono-cropping paradigm down the throats of the majority of the world- can you say "all eggs in one basket?"  Mono-crops will increasingly fail as climate change asserts itself.  Meanwhile we continue to heap ourselves with false praise of conquering nature as we mine it to our deaths...

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 11:20 | 1078714 Matte_Black
Matte_Black's picture

You seem to be flailing and thrashing around a bit in your attempt to get your script posted.

Have you tried pasting your script into notepad first, and then making your edits? You might be able to make it less obvious that you didn't actually read what you are ostensibly replying that way.

Just trying to help. How much do they pay you, btw?

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 07:03 | 1078195 gina distrusts gov
gina distrusts gov's picture

Sirrah you sound exactly like a corporate/ Government lackey

In the mid 60's in wood river junction RI there was a reactor fuel reprocessing plant one of the workers put to much of the fuel rod contents in the mixer machine  the end result was a self dampened reaction  ie the mixer exploded  totally contaminating the plant ,the workers were killed and had to be buried in lead coffins the plant is still locked 

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 23:55 | 1077649 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

George, I posted this on another thread, but it's appropiate here as well:

From Alvin Toffler's "POWERSHIFT":

"...at least thirty times between 1957 and 1985 -more than once a year- the Savannah River nuclear weapons plant near Aiken, South Carolina, experienced what a scientist subsequently termed "reactor incidents of greatest significance." These included widespread leakage of radioactivity and a meltdown of nuclear fuel. But not one of these was reported to local residents or to the public generally. Nor was action taken when the scientist submitted an internal memorandum about these "incidents." The story did not come to light until exposed in a Congressional hearing in 1988.

The plant was operated by E. I. du Pont de Nemours & Company for the U.S. government, and Du Pont was accused of covering up the facts. The company immediately issued a denial, pointing out that it had routinely reported the accidents to the Department of Energy.

At this point, the DoE, as it is known, accepted the blame for keeping the news secret."

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 11:50 | 1078809 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

Isn't it ironic that most of the atomic bombs detonated by America were in America? And most of the nuclear destruction wrought by America took place in America?

Same goes for Russia.

Wouldn't it be funny if the damage we each did to OURSELVES in the Cold War, was equal to a limited nuclear exchange (war)?

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 01:34 | 1077933 George Washington
George Washington's picture

Thanks, Ahmeexnal!  I added to the post ...

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 23:55 | 1077642 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

...notes a 1985 report by the National Regulatory Commission acknowledged a 50 percent chance of a severe core accident among the more than 100 nuclear power plants in the United States over a 20-year period. [includes rush transcript]

Well, it's been 25 years....

Anyone got a copy of this report I can take a look at?  GW?

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 10:52 | 1078607 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

dp

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 10:44 | 1078566 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

no, the "National Regulatory Commission" wasn't around in '85.  It is started up, though, on page 2,315 of the Obama-Care bill.  Part of the platform, don'tcha' know.

- Ned

{you can start with WASH-1400}

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 00:13 | 1077697 Matte_Black
Matte_Black's picture

I personally do not, Mr. Richmond. However, it has been brought to my attention in the past 7 days or so that the full cost of operating these nuclear power plants extends for 40k years or more.

Got mortgage?

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 08:17 | 1078255 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Long term fuel storage is a legitimate issue.  I do not believe, and never did believe, that nuclear is a long term solution.  It is, however, a needed energy source for the next 60 years or so.  I retain hope for the ultimate solution to fusion.  I retain hope that humans are clever enough to find the next evolutionary or even revolutionary energy source.  We certainly need one.  We've not failed to do it yet: trees, then coal, then oil, then....?  This is why I despise peak oilers, for example.  They think that once the oil runs out, we're going back to the stone age.  The nattering nabobs of negativity.  This also why I despise those who rant endless doom about the problems that tech involves.  Tech isn't perfect.  Far from it.  While we can certainly argue quality of life, people live longer now than they did not so long ago.  Better shelter, more consistent food, better health care.  The quality of life decisions are largely up to the individual. Tech has given us (until the NEA took over) better education and much lower infant mortality, and hence smaller families.  Modernized western societies actually struggle to maintain birth rates sufficient to keep up the population.  Why do you think our southern border is deliberately open?  Japan, for example, is in demographic decline.  The people who fret about the carrying capacity of the planet never talk about this.

Don't like oil?  Don't like nuclear?  Don't like vaccinations?  Live on an island or in a cave, never go to the doctor, it's OK with me.  Or, go to college and get a PhD and create the next energy solution or a better way to immunize humans against the childhood diseases that routinely killed millions.

Or, start a blog, give yourself credibility and an air of authority you really don't deserve by calling yourself "George Washington," and then proceed to shriek at the top of your lungs about everything that's wrong with tech, in an apparent attempt to convince people that...we should go back to the stone age.

Cui bono?

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 16:34 | 1079471 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

As I've asked on numerous occasions:  Is the surface of a planet the right place for an expanding technological civilization?

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