• Leo Kolivakis
    07/30/2010 - 17:29
    In the first quarter, the US economy grew by 3.7%, revised up from an originally reported 2.7% increase. But growth estimates all the way back to the start of 2007 were revised lower. Moreover, the level of real GDP in Q1 was revised down by $100 billion. Does this mean the secular bull market in bonds will continue? And are Treasuries the "last diversifier left"?
  • Vitaliy Katsenelson
    07/30/2010 - 13:51
    The Japanese economy operates on the assumption, soon to be proved false, that the government will always be able to borrow at low interest rates. As internal demand evaporates, the government will have to start hawking its debt outside Japan — in a more realistic world, where interest rates are a lot higher.
  • Phoenix Capital Research
    07/30/2010 - 09:55
    Dear Mr. President, You don’t know me, but I was one of the millions of Americans who voted for you in the last election. I have since been fairly critical of your Presidency largely because I, like many others, feel betrayed by the policies you have enacted upon winning said election.

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Debt: FAQs About the National Debt

Benjamin N. Dover III's picture




The handwringing over the supposedly disastrous consequences of our growing national debt shows no sign of abating anytime soon. Perhaps most troubling is that the unwarranted alarmism comes not just from rabid ever-grizzlies like ZeroHedge but also from some respectable information sources.

At every turn, the Cassandras remind us that the US has total outstanding national debt of $11.8 trillion and $3 million of new national debt every minute. (They conveniently fail to mention that that's only a 100% increase in the debt since 2001.) They seem to get satisfaction from pointing out that the debt is so large, it doesn't even fit on most calculators.

And they note that even according to the conservative estimates of the Obama Administration, the federal budget deficit in 2009 will be $1.6 trillion, over 11% of the overall economy, the highest on record since the end of WWII. And that in 2019, the national debt will represent over 75% of GDP, the highest proportion since just after WWII. They claim that, in these circumstances, the international reserve status of the dollar will not survive, leading, at best, to a crippling rise in interest rates and the cost of debt service, and at worst, a collapse of the American monetary system. Either way, they claim, the US economy will "teeter on the edge of a black hole." 

Defeatist data like these are causing pundits and ordinary folks alike to start thinking about the issue -- never a good thing. It's clear the debt hysteria won't ebb until either Americans are distracted by a new reality show or the experts debunk the myth that debt is bad.

Fortunately, Congressman Pete Stark has gotten the ball rolling by noting that the national debt is actually an indication of our country's wealth (before politely telling his interviewer to "get the fuck out or I'll throw you out the window").  And Nobel-winning economist Paul Krugman has helped out by suggesting that national debt doesn't really matter

I fear, though, that these lone voices of fiscal sanity won't be enough.  So, in an attempt to break down the facts in a way that a six-year-old -- or even Tyler Durden -- could understand, I've composed clear, straightforward answers to frequently-asked questions on this much-misunderstood topic. Feel free to add any queries not addressed, but I think this pretty much ends the debt debate.

(However, if after reading the FAQs you're still a bit anxious about the debt, you're in luck. The Treasury Department has been kind enough to allow concerned citizens to make a "gift" to the government to reduce the debt.)

FAQs About The National Debt

"Will the growing federal deficits increase the US's borrowing costs, creating a vicious cycle of spiraling debt?"

Once upon a time, people thought so, but recent economic history has proven that theory wrong. In fact, debt and borrowing costs enjoy an inverse relationship. For example, in the past few years, the national debt and deficit have skyrocketed, but interest rates have plummeted to record lows. Ergo, the more debt we assume, the lower our borrowing costs will be, which will allow us to access funds to service the balooning debt at ever-cheaper prices. By my calculation, if the US had the good sense to increase its debt by a few trillion more, we could reach a point where investors pay for the privilege of lending us their hard-earned cash.

"Doesn't a massive federal deficit mean we're spending much more than we produce?"

Absolutely. That's the beauty of it -- you get to spend money like a drunken sailor even though you're on a drunken sailor's salary.

"Won't investors stop lending to us altogether at some point?"

This is America. Governments, corporations and individuals in this country and around the world are lined up around the block waiting patiently to throw money at us. Since the queue's end isn't even visible from here, there's no reason to believe it actually has an end.

"Don't sound principles of personal finance dictate that it's unsustainable for an individual to continue borrowing and spending more than he earns?"

Yes. In short order that person's credit rating will fall, which will require him to pay more to get additional credit. At some point -- and it won't be long -- lenders will refuse to provide any more credit. If he isn't able to increase his income to meet his debt service obligations and other expenses, he'll go bankrupt.

"Wouldn't the same thing happen to a government that borrows and spends more than it produces?"

Yes.

"So, doesn't that mean the same thing will happen to the US Government?"

No. The economic realities applicable to individuals and other governments don't apply to the US. This phenomenon is what's known as the economic component of American Exceptionalism.

"What makes the US exempt from economic reality?"

A surplus of factors. First, the almighty dollar. For decades it has been the international reserve currency, which is a fancy way of saying the rest of the world has eternal blind faith in our money. In God we trust. In the Dollar they trust.

Second, we have the largest economy in the world, which means the rest of the world knows that a hole in our boat would drag the rest of the world's dinghies to the bottom of the ocean with us. That keeps them cooperative.

And third, America is the greatest, freest, richest, most egalitarian country in the history of the world. We're a beacon to the rest of humanity. We're the modern age's greatest national success story. These colors don't run (except, of course, where the red, white and blue at issue are the colors of France.) And, what's more, we're the greatest. How could a country like that go bankrupt?

"But hasn't China hinted at replacing the dollar as the reserve currency?"

China schmina.

"Isn't China expected to overtake the US as the world's largest economy?"

That's not going to happen any time soon -- at least not for 3 or 4 years. And if and when it does happen: China schmina.

"Isn't deficit spending by the government contrary to conservative economic principles?"

Not at all. Government debt as a means of centrally planning a nation's economy is what laissez-faire capitalism is all about. For those whose French is rusty, "laissez-faire" generally means "let-do," "leave-alone" or "step-the-fuck-off, Uncle Sam". Except when the economy veers off the anticipated course, in which case it means "government-should-intervene-by-sticking-its-arm-up-the-economy's-ass-and-making-it-dance-like-a-hand-puppet". Worry not -- Adam Smith and Milton Friedman are resting peacefully.

"What about the Fed's policy of monetizing the debt by expanding its balance sheet? Isn't that even more dangerous because it finances deficit spending by, in effect, printing money?"

That's what the press is there for. Printing money devalues a currency, sparks inflation and merely postpones an inevitable day of painful reckoning only when third world countries do it.

"Are you sure we've got nothing to worry about?"

As sure as I am that the Obama Administration's deficit projections are right on the money.

"So, debt is, for lack of a better word, good?"

Precisely. Debt is right; debt works. Debt clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Debt, in all of its forms -- debt for bank bonuses; debt for shiny new cars; debt for that i-Phone app that makes the farting noises of different ethnic groups around the world -- has marked the upward surge of consumerkind and debt, you mark my words, will not only save Ben Bernanke's job, irresponsible homeowners and Citigroup, but also that country with a mild case of economic performance anxiety called the USA.

Mr. Dover will be on a secret fact-finding tour of Europe for the next few weeks.

**Special thanks to TomJoad for suggesting the brilliant title.

4.91892
Your rating: None Average: 4.9 (74 votes)



by fireangelmaverick
on Mon, 09/07/2009 - 22:31
#61963

the national debt will represent over 75% of GDP, the highest proportion since just after WWII.

That definitely is inaccurate I think. I believe we are projected to go past 100% pretty soon no?

by Benjamin N. Dov...
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 08:44
#62152

What gives you the temerity to suggest that the White House's projections of debt are low and GDP are high?

by hbjork1
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 12:18
#62394

Mr. Dover:

 

Magnificent Piece:

 

Perhaps we can get support from the stimulus package to send copies to the occupants of the “tent towns” that are appearing in unoccupied spaces at the edge of the Detroit metropolitan area.  Not only does the more debt approach solve their problem but they can use the paper to line jackets and outer-ware as the coming winter sets in.

 

by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 13:23
#62488

PURITY OF ESSENCE
PEACE ON EARTH

by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 09:09
#62178

Well, what's the trend? Downward GDP, increasing deficits, increase in regulation and taxation, unemployment skyrocketing (or falling off a cliff for those who've been on too long), commercial real estate in the tank, and a 70% services based economy... what do you think is going to happen to the debt:GDP?

The sad part is, our little cap gun of a stop gap has already brought us to the tipping point... but I think long ago we stared into the abyss and made the decision to keep pumping and see where it goes, to the bitter end... too bad the multiplier effect doesn't mean anything when banks don't lend and consumers don't spend...

by Budd Fox
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 18:42
#62941

Doesn't matter!!

Japan is at 200% and still there and runnin...

by Anonymous
on Wed, 09/09/2009 - 15:21
#64050

"runnin" or running well? certainly not the latter.

by MinnesotaNice
on Mon, 09/07/2009 - 22:36
#61967

Love it as usual... you are a master...

This phenomenon is what's known as the economic component of American Exceptionalism.

by Gordon_Gekko
on Mon, 09/07/2009 - 22:58
#61992

Good work, Mr. Dover.

by Benjamin N. Dov...
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 08:47
#62154

Somehow I had a feeling that The Elephant would appreciate this article's iron-clad reasoning.

by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 19:51
#62989

check it out gordon, while gold and silver are running, denniger and shedlock are still talking about deflation.....

ha ha ha

oh man. gold and silver bugs don't get to laugh very much in this environement, but when we do, it is a good thing....

by Anonymous
on Mon, 09/07/2009 - 23:01
#61995

We need to start a co-ordinated sell-off..haha our own anti-SPY gunning..

by JohnKing
on Mon, 09/07/2009 - 23:22
#62009

There's an app for that.

by SWRichmond
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 06:24
#62102

Can I get it on my fav warez site?

by uptick1028
on Mon, 09/07/2009 - 23:18
#62008

Sounds like the same explanation that was giving in 1999 to justify buying Nasdaq stocks.

The numbers don't matter anymore, it's a new era....Era's have a way ending quicker than you think !!

by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 07:24
#62117

It's a new Era! With the power of protean!

by Miles Kendig
on Mon, 09/07/2009 - 23:26
#62015

Printing money devalues a currency, sparks inflation and merely postpones an inevitable day of painful reckoning only when third world countries do it.

Classic

by tradertim
on Mon, 09/07/2009 - 23:57
#62031

from wikipedia;

"The term Third World arose during the Cold War to define countries that remained non-aligned or neutral with either capitalism and NATO or communism and the Soviet Union."

sooooooo....isn't the USA a third world country?

the USA is non-aligned with capitalism now. right?

by BorisTheBlade
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 07:06
#62112

No, you don't get it. Obama Administration in all its infinite wisdom will make sure that the United States represent both capitalism (as it always did) and communism (as of recently) making the rest of the world comprising of the Third World Countries (changes in all maps should ensue).

The new phenomenon of combining Capitalism and Communism will be marked by historians as the turning point in the history of humanity. The only debate worth participating in the prosperous centuries to come will be how to call it: Capitanism or Commutalism.

by sgt_doom
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 14:25
#62599

No, but you almost got it!  China has already done the combo number, and now its called Sino-sitisalism.

But what's wrong with communism anyway?  American corporations have long embraced it, offshoring plenty of American jobs and technology to China and Vietnam.

by BorisTheBlade
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 16:00
#62757

Sino-sitisalism? That's gotta be some Chinese fake like Adabas, even google gets puzzled ovet it.

But going back to communism: the only wrong thing about it is that it has never existed :) Even in Soviet Union there were these 5-year plans (Pjatiletki) and the arrival of communism to soviet people was pushed to the next Pjatiletka several times. They finally stopped doing this back in 80's and under Gorbachev rule they were just talking about 'reforming socialism'. So, communism never really failed as a working system as it always remained a pure idea (what has collapsed in USSR was effectively some kind of state capitalism).

by Anonymous
on Sun, 09/13/2009 - 17:06
#68296

"communism never really failed as a working system"
Sorry. The facts do not agree with you.
Try reading this:
http://mises.org/store/Requiem-for-Marx-P522.aspx
Thanks!

by BorisTheBlade
on Thu, 09/17/2009 - 15:28
#72682

At least in a way that communists defined communism themselves, it was never claimed that there was a communism, but that's more of a semantical argument.

PS

I regularly read mises.org, so pretty much aware of free market arguments.

by walküre
on Mon, 09/07/2009 - 23:40
#62023

Buy stocks in manufacturers of lipstick and wheelbarrows.

by MinnesotaNice
on Mon, 09/07/2009 - 23:42
#62025

As in 'lipstick on a pig' and 'wheelbarrows of worthless money'?

by aldousd
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 08:00
#62132

you are a quickie. pardon my lack of english skillz.

by iinthesky
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 00:04
#62036

What is this man smoking?

"debt has marked the upward surge of consumerkind and blah blah"

Debt and devaluation have also marked the beginning of the end of many an empire that im sure the residents of which, at the time, thought was invinsible and immortal and 'the greatest'... Empires rise and fall and if you think pumping infinite fiat is good, you too are drinking the kool aid. Not even taking into account who this supposed debt is owed to, the compounding interest, the taxation and exploitation of the 'upward surging consumerkind', and etc. etc. ad nauseum.. This post is nonsense.

by ratava
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 05:50
#62097

whooosh!

by MinnesotaNice
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 17:56
#62882

It flew so fast over his head that he couldn't even tell what it was :-)

by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 19:17
#62976

Is the captcha still on?

by Benjamin N. Dov...
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 08:50
#62159

I'll have you know, sir, that I never smoke it while typing.

by Budd Fox
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 18:48
#62948

Irony, since the times of Charles Dickens " a modest proposal" , flies over the head of many.

Sad....

by John Self
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 08:53
#62160

We have some lovely parting gifts for you in the back.

by MinnesotaNice
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 17:57
#62884

LOL... I love the ones that don't get it... they are funnier that Mr. Dover :-)

by ZerOhead
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 21:19
#63066

You do know that you are very difficult to find these days... and I'm soooo retarded that I can't find the squid thread we had going anywhere.

Answer : Toronto is HQ for majority of time... but I cover a wide geographic terrain at times.

by MinnesotaNice
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 21:41
#63074

After the wild party on ZH over the weekend it is impossible to find anything that you wrote... I think that Open Thread was pushing 700 comments... then Andy opened an Open Thread for another 150 comments or so... everyone was really subdued on Monday night listening to Radio Zero and there was nothing left to say that hadn't already been said a 50 different ways by 50 different people. 

Have never been to Toronto... do they have good calamari... the ColossalCalamariCo is the only brand I like...   :-) 

by ZerOhead
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 22:00
#63102

 There ya are...

I've never seen the second page option... so I saw the numbers going up but was dumbstruck. Needed to get out anyway so I went for a looong walk in the woods. The salmon were in the streams spawning... it was beautiful!

We have GREAT calamari restaurants. Actually WE have great calamari restaurants. Just the bricks and mortar. Never see the menu or the bill... hence i don't know how to spell c-a-l-a-m-a-r-i.

Your from... wait... let me guess... Minnesota?

Oh... and how exactly do you get radio zero?  

by MinnesotaNice
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 22:19
#63123

Marla will pre-announce in a posting on the main ZH page that she will be hosting Radio Zero at a certain time that evening... there is no rhyme or reason as to when she does it... but it is usually over the weekend and she is usually late... then she will provide a link for you to click on when she is ready to start... I think I use iTunes as my player... then she will play 'electronica-type' music for as long as she wants... she mixes some of it herself... I wasn't familiar with that type of music but it is really good... sometimes the sessions go all night... you can then chit-chat with others on that thread just like in this comment section.  It is a pretty fun when you're in the mood for that kind of chillaxin at home... rather than going out.

Yes... Minnesota has been my home for the last 12 years or so... before that much warmer climates... these 6 month winters are a real problem... to long... I depart frequently throughout the winter for warmer venues.

So whatz up with... Actually WE have great calamari restaurants. Just the bricks and mortar. My interest is peaked.

by ZerOhead
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 22:32
#63144

My good friend Andreas has sizable R.E. 'empire' over here. I just try to keep the bugger out of trouble. I come here to get a heads up on what problems may lie over the horizon... I love this site! You?

Ooops it's 11:30 already... gotta go... see ya tomorrrow Minnesorta...

by MinnesotaNice
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 22:34
#63147

:-)

by BobPaulson
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 12:44
#62429

This started to happen to my dad once he got to be around 80.

 

tinyurl.com/62qnkz

by callistenes
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 17:42
#62863

Whew, Ben I felt the breeze from that from the evil iinthesky, too bad most these folks don't

 know you from these parts in the greatest state in the union err I mean the WORLD!

by ZerOhead
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 22:18
#63133

Chillax everyone... at least he's smart enough to get the basics right...

by Dr Horace Manure
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 00:42
#62045

It's not nonsense, it's satire, and excellent satire.

As an international expert in ethnic fart sound wave theory, and from the stench, I believe Mr. Dover must be French.

by Frank Owen
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 01:09
#62051

Awesome. One of the funniest articles I've read on ZH, if not THE funniest.

by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 01:16
#62052

"As sure as I am that the Obama Administration's deficit projections are right on the money."

Classic.

by Mediocritas
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 02:01
#62062

Doesn't all this debt worry you at all?

Debt schmedt, we've got the bomb.

But aren't you worried about ending the world in thermonuclear war?

Hell no, look, nobody will blow us up. If they did, how would we pay them back?

So you'll just blow everyone else up then?

Say, that's a pretty good idea. Then we don't have to pay them back.

by ZerOhead
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 21:45
#63089

Ha ha ha ha ha ha... good one!

by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 02:00
#62063

It could only be bested if Dover sang,"We are the champions" in a Freddy Mercury leotard with Kiss boots and a tiara. All made in China and all paid with plastic fantastic.

by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 02:07
#62066

Facts? I don't need no stinking facts! Tim Geithner

"Excellent article! Finally someone who understands the complex algorithms I was using to accumulate debt" Bernie Madoff

"Where was this guy when I needed him?" Carlo Ponzi

"When one bank closes another bank opens" Goldmen Sachs trading seminar

"What's for lunch?" SEC

by Insiderman
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 02:29
#62070

My laughter started with the name "Ben Dover."

by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 03:52
#62082

What's wrong with debt?? at least you got your hands on that china-made dvd player watching fake china-made dvds while the chinese only have some fancy printed paper to show for it.

by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 03:55
#62083

you got that fancy china-made blu ray dvd player. what have they got? some fancy printed paper. such a clever scheme, got the chinese to work for you for free AND front you the inputs of manufacturing. Long live America!

by michigan independant
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 04:06
#62084

Yes write the senate to add 5 more zero's to the amount. Geez Clinton had no problem with the money and china gate. Bush's never minded. Why would the taxpayer even consider the Senate to buck bazillions for some stimulas for there masters. Krugman feels his calculator can finite math and stop trends on a dime. http://www.alanwattsentientsentinel.eu/english/transcripts/Alan_Watt_Blurb_Sir_James_Goldsmith_US_Senate_Speech_Oct192007.html

Somebody get the whip out and flog the serfs scared to save there last dollar to survive the noble efforts of the wise masters. 

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/SAVINGSL

 

 

 

 
by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 09:31
#62188

wow, for a second there i thought you were actually referencing alan watts:

http://www.alanwatts.com/

“The reason we want to go on and on is because we live in an impoverished present.” ~AWatts

by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 18:52
#62953

By the way the "How I stopped worrying and loved the debt" was from Dr. Strangelove, and the full title was "How I stopped worrying and learned to love the bomb." there were two bombs, "hi there" and "dear John" perhaps from the last two administrations.

The only way out of this thing is through peaceful revolution. We were in a far worse mess in the 1850s so we formed a new party and fixed it, albeit by a very bloody war. I think the same thing will happen without the war however.

I suspect Newt Gingrich will break away from his party along with Ron Paul and form a new party that will have the ability to clean up the mess. I see no other way out.

by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 04:18
#62085

The US isn't the only basket case out there. New Zealand debt has already breached the 100% to GDP and is on fast track to becoming another Iceland.

by Project Mayhem
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 04:18
#62087

This article is amazing. Thank you so much for answering my questions.

by SWRichmond
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 06:30
#62105

Hey PM, I thought they were supposed to defend 78?  What the hell?

by Benjamin N. Dov...
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 08:56
#62162

See what I mean, everyone?  Even some of the experts needed to be set straight on this topic.

by ZerOhead
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 21:43
#63085

Ben-ja-min... Ben-ja-min... Ben-ja-min.........

by Kerel
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 05:23
#62092

This is a great help, thanks so much.  So I want to put my 80 year-old mother's savings in the stock market where it belongs.  Not that things are getting better, I want to take advantage of margin lending.  Do you think 50% is too aggressive.  I will only buy the quality names, mainly banks that have already shot up in price and proved they are going to thrive.  thanks again

by Hephasteus
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 06:07
#62098

LOL

by SWRichmond
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 06:27
#62103

AIG on the dips!

by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 07:47
#62123

lmao

by grunk
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 07:37
#62119

I'm going to pop my Lee Greenwood tape into the cassette player and read this article again.

by SpartanTnT
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 07:42
#62121

Ben, you forgot to mention Roubini changing tone as well.

by Benjamin N. Dov...
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 08:58
#62164

Normally, I wouldn't advocate cutting Dr. Doom any slack, but the poor man has been distracted since he became a celebrity academic.

by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 22:07
#63117

well it went from a L, to a double dip W, to a triple dip. I think he is working on a U now.

by flaxpin
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 07:59
#62129

Get the fuck outta here!

by spanish inquisition
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 08:00
#62131

Thank you for the perspective Ben, I was starting to get nervous about the economy. But now that I see I am "exempt", I feel much better. Well gotta go, brown banana's get dumped at 9am and there is a line if you don't get there early.

by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 11:41
#62349

Best reply I've ever read

by aldousd
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 08:10
#62138

I can hardly wait.  They should give us our million dollars a piece now, so we can all hurry up and be rich millionaires. I love this country.

 

By the way, and I mean this in the most sincere way, whomever writes as Benjamin Dover is one sharp motherfucker. Keep it coming. It's so funny it's sobering. Stephen Colbert, you're officially on notice.

by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 08:44
#62151

This one was so good you had me until the second paragraph....well done.

by Andy Dufresne
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 08:48
#62155

Benny, spectacular job

by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 08:59
#62169

Bravo!

by Fish Gone Bad
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 09:01
#62171

Ben, I must say that I admire how you took on the impossible task of understanding the national debt problem, and made it simple enough for even a person of my limited intellect to understand.

You are an upstanding good citizen.

by FreddyInBangkok
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 09:22
#62179

Normal 0 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 would some kind soul please advise how to post an IMAGE here. these 4 are the only choices & none of em work. Cheers.

[URL=http://img6.imageshack.us/i/snag0113.png/][IMG]http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/2928/snag0113.png[/IMG][/URL]

 

[url=http://img6.imageshack.us/i/snag0113.png/][img=http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/2928/snag0113.png][/url]

 

<a href='http://img6.imageshack.us/i/snag0113.png/'><img src='http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/2928/snag0113.png' border='0' alt='Image Hosted by ImageShack.us'/></a><br/>

 

http://img6.imageshack.us/i/snag0113.png/

 

by CD
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 10:52
#62275

Submit original content, become a contributor on ZH. 'Til then, links only.

by deadhead
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 09:24
#62182

As usual, pure brilliance from you Ben.  Thank you for your excellent humor.

by the way, will this article be one of the handouts for Obama's school speech?  Shouldn't our kids know this stuff asap?

by FreddyInBangkok
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 09:27
#62186

anyone got stark's fax# i'd like to send the git a message

by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 10:02
#62211

In some ways there's a little Ben Dover in us all.

realitycheck
http://doomerupdate.blogspot.com

by TomJoad
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 10:05
#62216

You are truly the Dr. Strangelove of Economics: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Debt.

by Benjamin N. Dov...
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 11:16
#62314

Damn it, that's the perfect title I was searching for but didn't find.

by TomJoad
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 11:58
#62373

My pleasure. 

by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 11:32
#62337

You are a gifted writer. This is the best article I have read in years. I could not stop laughing!

by JR
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 11:40
#62348

Keynes, Krugman and Bernanke are working for the financial establishment.  Their idea is to keep the money on the table, in play, so that they can take it, steal it.  The financial establishment deals in handling money: credit and debt.  And it can’t make money if it doesn’t have the money in circulation. 

Every time Joe Sixpack spends, buys product, all these assorted characters take a clip of it.  The state takes a cut that it redistributes in part to its supporters. The banks will be dealing with that money, taking their commissions and cuts with all the rest of the financial middlemen along the line. Money and credit to these people is not about production and sales, but the movement of the money.

It’s like a giant poker game.  If Joe Sixpack keeps his money in his pocket, by the time he goes home, he has his money.  But if he puts his money on the table or borrows, all these money dealers have a crack at it.  And all the while that Keynes in absentia has been pushing his theories, the government and the bankers are at work.

Take a look at the spoils for the Fed cartel from its money rackets, at the losses for its victims—1) the dot com wipeout 2) the home equity wipeout 3) the usurious mortgage-payment wipeout 4) the savings wipeout 5) the taxpayer wipeout  [bailouts for banks, investment bankers, insurance companies, Fannie, Freddie, GM, Chrysler…] 6) the 08-09 investor wipeout 7) the short seller wipeout 8) the American dream wipeout [lost jobs, an off shored manufacturing base, a debased currency, futureless college graduates…].   And on top of it all, Iraq and Afghanistan. Wars of aggression do not happen without the printing facilities of a central bank

 

by aldousd
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 14:35
#62625

Krugman just has it in for those 'richies' who somehow managed to make a boatload more money than he did, when he's so obviously smarter than they are.  He was probably pretty jealous that he didn't get laid any more being a 'world class economist' and the entrepreneurs are certainly not getting treated as 'fairly' as he has been his whole life.

 

Sorry it sucks to be you Mr. Krugman. And worst of all, sorry that you're smart enough to know just how bad it sucks. Sucks doesn't it? Mwahaha!

by JR
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 12:06
#62381

Vin Suprynowicz in a review of Henry Hazlitt’s The Failure of the “New Economics” writes that Hazlitt, way back in 1959, demonstrated that not only did the Keynesian "remedies" of deficit spending and artificially low interest rates not work to reduce high unemployment, business failure and other symptoms of economic maladjustment, but that they often had precisely the OPPOSITE effect of that intended!

Suprynowicz cites some succinct Hazlitt conclusions:

“In Keynesian policy, unemployment is never to be corrected by any reduction of money-wage-rates...  Keynes recommends two main remedies. One is deficit spending (sometimes euphemistically called government ‘investment’). How good is this remedy? It was tried in the United States (partly because of Keynes’ recommendations) for a full decade. What were the results? Here are the deficit in the Federal budget, the numbers of unemployed, and the percentage of unemployed to the total labor force, year by year in that decade. All the figures are from official sources:” (Chart follows.) …

“The central and decisive fact is that heavy deficits were accompanied by mass unemployment. …

“The other main Keynesian remedy for unemployment is low interest rates, artificially produced by ‘the Monetary Authority.’ Keynes incidentally admits … that such artificially low interest rates can only be produced by printing more money, i.e. by deliberate inflation. But we may let this pass for a moment. The question immediately before us is: Did low interest rates prevent mass unemployment? …” (Another chart, measuring the commercial paper rate against the unemployment rate for the years 1920 through 1940, follows.)

“In sum, over this period of a dozen years low interest rates did NOT eliminate unemployment. On the contrary, unemployment actually INCREASED as interest rates went down. In the seven-year period from 1934 to 1940, when the cheap money policy was pushed to an average infra-low rate below 1 percent (.77 of 1 per cent) an average of more than 17 in every 100 persons in the labor force were unemployed.”  (end Hazlitt)

Continues Suprynowicz:

Hazlitt proceeds to demonstrate that from 1949 to 1958, when the same policy of artificially pushing down interest rates was tried, “the relationship of unemployment to interest rates is almost the exact opposite of that suggested by Keynesian theory.”

How could Keynes have gotten it so wrong?

Easy. Hazlitt shows again and again that Keynes pronounced his theories “ex cathedra,” without substantial statistics to back them up. Then, if actual statistics were produced that seemed to show results opposite to what his theories had predicted, he simply challenged the statistics!

(originally posted in part on Contributor J.D. Swampfox’s What makes us invest more?)

by eroc66
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 12:18
#62391

Totally hot commentary.  Now all we need is sexy Obama Girl or Ron Paul Girl cheerleaders to make the topic sexy! ROFL

by kote
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 12:32
#62415

by TomJoad
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 12:44
#62428

I had missed that one by Max. I do prefer Ben's style, more classically Swiftian in my modestly proposed opinion.

by Cognitive Dissonance
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 12:57
#62443

A friend of mine was actually stupid enough to make a "gift" the reduce America's debt. He felt wonderful afterward and so did America. Unfortunately my friend doesn't smoke.

by Ruth
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 13:07
#62461

I got the part that Tyler's brain can think like a 6 yr old but the other stuff I didn't understand...  Thank God my brother gave me this translation of principles of economics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVp8UGjECt4

 

by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 13:32
#62498

How do we tell our new graduates that the highly specialized division of labour that our complex economy has depended on (and rewarded) may be gone?

How to tell them that there is about to be a global disjunction in credit? That in future, credit will be rationed and much will be on pay-go. How do they get that first or next car, the 30y mortgage home, retirement, or savings for their children?

Regression to the mean will mean a much greater proportion of the population will need to have subsistence skills and street smarts above esoteric high specialization.

The collapse post 3rd Century Rome was estimated by Gibbons to have led to a 95% reduction in population in many formerly prosperous towns.

Lord Maynard Keynes who is lionized by the banking cartel and invoked to carry out all the dark arts have chosen that Lord and philosophies of man to follow.

We get to pay the price for the mistakes.

by TumblingDice
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 13:39
#62505

The article set my mind at ease. Thanks Ben.

by i.knoknot
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 13:50
#62521

me too - for a minute there, I was worried.

by ShankyS
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 14:11
#62556

Wonderful post!

Sadly, in a way this sounds like a CNBS broadcast without the ques of realism.

by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 15:01
#62673

The common sense approach would be to simply take on additional debt and buy China. The synergies would be immense.

by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 15:03
#62679

They common sense approach would simply be to take on additional debt and buy China. Imagine the synergies!

by JR
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 15:11
#62691

Government health care is even more government debt.

A caller to Stephanie Miller’s progressive radio program this morning concludes from the August debates on health care that opposing sides are neither Democrat versus Republican nor liberal versus conservative.  Instead, they are smart versus dumb, meaning that “dumb” people are the ones protesting their loss of freedom and income to the state.  

Explaining to the “smart” progressive fringe on the left what’s wrong with socialism, of course, can be difficult. “Though a fool spend all his life with wise men, he will know the truth no more than a spoon knows the taste of soup.”  (The Dhammapada, c. 100)

by Mr. Mandelbrot
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 19:08
#62969

+10!

by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 15:41
#62736

What arrogance, if you think special rules apply to US, your in for a big surprise. While the US may be the top of the food chain, other countries are learning the game fast and smell opportunity. They will pounce when they can. That day will come sooner than you think.

by PenGun
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 20:47
#63026

 You are such a troll Ben. See what you did.

by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 16:40
#62795

i love tongue in cheek humor.

buy into this and other things will be inserted in other cheeks.

by Gabriel Gray
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 16:41
#62797

debt shmedt

by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 17:43
#62864

Interesting tid bit on PBS "History Detectives" of a circa 1776 $6.00 note, redeemable in "Spanish milled coin" or "gold"; even though those never exited!

I can't find it at their site, but watched it this morning.

It's very, very eye opening! And a "must watch"!

Leaves someone somewhat hopeless when their government intentionally breaks their dollar. Bullion may be secured, & gaurded, but you'll need to cut it into increments small enough to trade, as in grams!

Got scales anyone?

evil ray

by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 18:49
#62950

"What makes the US exempt from economic reality?"

Ben Bernake's printing presses!

Plus the fact that no gold standard exists in the global fiat monetary system. I can only guess what would happen if the US was forced to go back on to the gold standard.

I also find it strange that the US economy is only going to "teeter on the edge of a black hole", when the US govt is trillions in debt and totally bankrupt, morally and financially.

by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 18:53
#62955

By the way the "How I stopped worrying and loved the debt" was from Dr. Strangelove, and the full title was "How I stopped worrying and learned to love the bomb." there were two bombs, "hi there" and "dear John" perhaps from the last two administrations.

The only way out of this thing is through peaceful revolution. We were in a far worse mess in the 1850s so we formed a new party and fixed it, albeit by a very bloody war. I think the same thing will happen without the war however.

I suspect Newt Gingrich will break away from his party along with Ron Paul and form a new party that will have the ability to clean up the mess. I see no other way out.

by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 18:53
#62956

By the way the "How I stopped worrying and loved the debt" was from Dr. Strangelove, and the full title was "How I stopped worrying and learned to love the bomb." there were two bombs, "hi there" and "dear John" perhaps from the last two administrations.

The only way out of this thing is through peaceful revolution. We were in a far worse mess in the 1850s so we formed a new party and fixed it, albeit by a very bloody war. I think the same thing will happen without the war however.

I suspect Newt Gingrich will break away from his party along with Ron Paul and form a new party that will have the ability to clean up the mess. I see no other way out.

by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 18:54
#62958

debtor prisons, here we come again. after all , they need as many prisoner slaves as possible to increase production of cheaply made, manufactured goods for the goyim.

by Anonymous
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 20:00
#62996

China schmina...LOL
I'll keep that in mind when shopping for cheap plastic crap at Mao-mart-
err I mean Wal-mart...

by ZerOhead
on Tue, 09/08/2009 - 22:04
#63080

Ben... your wordsmanship is only exceeded by your brilliant insight!

I am not worthy! You Gekko as only Gekko can!

And when I find that fucker who rated you a 4 I'm going to ream him a new A-hole!!!

by Anonymous
on Wed, 09/09/2009 - 05:21
#63282

'Mr. Dover will be on a secret fact-finding tour of Europe for the next few weeks.'

Oh good, in that case,

Dear Mr Dover,

Any chance you could pop down to the Bank of England and find out whether debt is okay here to?

Us Limies are all confused because Mr's Brown and Blair told us that boom and bust was over, that selling half your gold reserves at $220 per oz lows was a good idea and competition laws were an important basis of the free markets.

Any help would be appreciated thank you,

Mr Montigue Withnail,
Land of the Prince Bishops

by Anonymous
on Wed, 09/09/2009 - 15:32
#64069

Great Piece.
I had a ball.

Seriously, however:

The USB (it was A, but given the imminent downgrade..)
has a lot of public debt that is not issued by the federal
government: states, munis etc.
How does that compare to other advanced economies?
Does anybody know?

For example:
When we read that Germany's debt will rise to 80% of the GDP,
can we compare it directly to the US federal debt, or should we add (or subtract) public debt issued by local admins (in either countries)?

by Anonymous
on Wed, 09/09/2009 - 17:52
#64272

Perfection.

by Anonymous
on Thu, 11/19/2009 - 13:29
#136018

This is the most blantant piece of propaganda I've ever read. Is he a lobbyist for the finance community or something?

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