Greece Update

Tyler Durden's picture

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Spitzer's picture

What is wrong with the Euro is what is right with it. Of course Greece aint leaving the fuckin Euro zone. It joined it for price stability.

And as far as deflationists are concerned, are they buying Euro's with both hands because "there is debt distruction, reverse of dilution, blah blah blah" in the Euro zone ???

 

tmosley's picture

Faith placed in ANY fiat currency is misplaced faith.

Spitzer's picture

Either way, the Euro is a better currency then the dollar. Consensus is  the opposite of course which means the opposite is true.

"The dollar is the least worst fiat"....I mean, I have never seen more investors agree on one thing then that. Even Keynes and Austrians usually agree on that which means it is wrong.

Lord Welligton's picture

Either way, the Euro is a better currency then the dollar.

You are either an idiot or a lying piece of shit.

Take your pick.

Spitzer's picture

Thanks for proving my point, jackass.

Doña K's picture

Both currencies are fiat. They just compete on which one is the worst on a daily basis.

MESSAGE TO GREEKS:

Get the vaseline ready and tell the banksters to....

Get your dignity back. Default, default, default.

Roll out the Drachma and flood the system. Forgive all, or most debt to people, get off the people's backs, freeze government hiring and you will thrive. Be the next Iceland 

Manthong's picture

They use olive oil over there.

Urban Redneck's picture

Greeks have a debt addiction, so they only have three options going forward-

1) kiss,make, up and back in the middle of the ECB/IMF menage-a-trois 

2) success in quitting cold turkey- and enduring lots of shakes and vomiting for years to come

3) failure in quitting cold turkey- which results in a gangbang by a vindictive mongol horde of rampaging bankers who won't be offering vaseline or olive oil to reduce the pain

ElvisDog's picture

You should run for Greek parliament. If you ran on the platform based on your last three sentences, you would win.

boiltherich's picture

Arg I am so tired of the fiat currency flogging I see every day at every website where goldbugs congregate to worship yellow metal.  It is a big world with a whole lot going on, and so very few people into gold have any education in finance and accounting, opinions yes, college credits?  OK.  Just saying....

Finance 101:  Money (call it anything you want, legal tender, fiat, FRN's, greenbacks, dollars, silver or gold) have to have three common traits in order to be money, they have to serve as a unit of account, a store of value, and a medium of exchange. 

The dollar and all other fiats suffer the same problem right now in that as a unit of account they all fail because the dollar is the reserve currency and as such our FASB accounting standards are the reserve accounting standards of the planet.  There are no ethical or rational accounting standards anymore, or should I say there is one for you and anything goes for those that have more money than you.

The dollar and all other fiats also suffer from medium of exchange issues because everything else that could possibly be considered money now is denominated in dollars.  Euros, gold, oil, yen, there just is nothing you could name that is not priced in the reserve currency which as I say above is no longer a universal unit of account. 

Store of value, do I even need to go there?

And the bugs all hype this the most, metals are the only true money because they have intrinsic value, but I say oh really?  Like in 1932 when by presidential order (fiat) it's value went from $20 to $35 with a stroke of a pen and by the way you go to prison if you do not sell all of it to the government at that price.  And that can't happen again because why? 

So I should trade greenbacks which are granted a horrible investment as far as store of value goes, like 1500 of them for a single ounce of gold in the hopes that I can buy an extra box of Kraft Mac & Cheese tomorrow, even though gold does not even remotely serve the other two functions of money, try going into Safeway with an ounce of gold, or silver, for your next six pack and see how far it gets you, if it is not legal tender it is a commodity investment and not money.  An investment is a bet.  I have seen so many people burned on the gold bet the only way I would hold any would be in dental fillings or recreational gold panning.

If you want to gamble with your wealth on commodities why not gamble on oil, it is a bigger market with a higher VIX, more chances to win, more opportunity to cut losses. 

All who cry about the dollar going down are doing so partly out of anger, partly political and partly angst about the future.  But, they are making dumb bets against powers bigger than they.  It is all a lot like Reno, sure you win part of the time and even have a streak, but the house stays in business year after year because the odds are fixed in their favor.  Most of the people who post here at ZH are gambling addicts, this streak is for real. 

I come because I am really angry about lying and corruption, and theft, and I do plan to act upon it, I might not be Che Guavera or Obama sin Laden or whatever, but I do have two hands and a head (two of those actually) and I am not planning to keep getting screwed so that my congressman's kids can inherit a house in Bar Harbor or Aspen.  Or in Boca, or Sun Valley, or up at Tahoe.  You yak away post after post about the shenanigans and unfairness of it all and do nothing, that is the definition of impotent.  And since I am totally sure none will ever do more than bitch and whine I will just act alone.  There comes a day when you just have to quit being a woman and do it!  (no offense to penis impaired who feel the same way please). 

cadmanjo's picture

There is a lot of truth in that post, unfortunatly.

Spitzer's picture

Truth or not, I would rather be in Euro's when gold breaks through 10,000 an oz then dollars.

ElvisDog's picture

The thing I would disagree with is the statement that gold and silver can't be used to buy day-to-day things. I would change that to "they can't buy day-to-day things yet". In my opinion, physical gold and silver are an insurance policy against a specific future course that has a non-zero chance of happening. Ideological purity is all well and good ("gold and silver will never be real money again"), but I prefer to hedge my bets.

PeterB's picture

"Dr Phil, is that you?"

Bubbles the cat's picture
Bubbles the cat (not verified) boiltherich May 7, 2011 10:03 AM

Hmmm.....btr you seem to me to be much the same as everyone else (well...maybe a little more thoughtful or eloquent than some). Like everyone else, you do what you can, when you can do it. Life's a gamble. Ever had a car accident?

PS To steal and distort someone else's quote (I shoulda been a politician eh?): No-one gets outta here alive.

dcb's picture

I AGREE WITH SOME NOT ALL.

the essential point is that when you have  system that thinks money printing helps, then what is the store of value.

what the gold bugs don't get is that how much of the price of gold is based on low 8interest rates and margin, just like stocks. hence margin calls, higher interst rates, will hurt gold as well. all asset classes. this is the disaster, it really isn't just money printing, it is the excesswive credit that goes into financial markets. this is the evil that needs to be destroyed.

Lord Welligton's picture

What is wrong with the Euro is what is right with it. Of course Greece aint leaving the fuckin Euro zone. It joined it for price stability.

Are you complety "fuckin" stupid.

Greece joined the "fuckin Euro zone" for the free "fuckin" money.

And here is the truth.

The Germans knew it.

Spitzer's picture

They still all have seperate "fuckin" bond markets. Iceland was not in the Euro zone and they got lots of "free fuckin money".

Lord Welligton's picture

Grow up.

Try for once to see.

 

Spitzer's picture

See what ?

That the Euro zone is a net creditor ?

Has more gold then the US ?

Biggest trading partner with China ?

loser

kaiten's picture

Eurozone is also the biggest manufacturer and exporter in the world. There´s real economy in eurozone, not in all eurozone countries, though, and Greece is one of such "empty" countries.

ElvisDog's picture

Gotta agree with Lord Wellington. There may have been other reasons to join the EU, but being able to fund their budget deficits with lower interest rate Euro bonds was a big benefit for Greece.

trav7777's picture

Welcome to the Hotel Eurofornia

Lord Welligton's picture

There you are.

There ain't have been some clever bastards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPvRsLWlDXw

THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Absolutely explosive piece in todays Irish  Times.

Morgan Kelly is on fire

Listen to this little nugget......

Ireland’s Last Stand began less shambolic ally than you might expect. The IMF, which believes that lenders should pay for their stupidity before it has to reach into its pocket, presented the Irish with a plan to haircut €30 billion of unguaranteed bonds by two-thirds on average. Lenihan was overjoyed, according to a source who was there, telling the IMF team: “You are Ireland’s salvation.”

The deal was torpedoed from an unexpected direction. At a conference call with the G7 finance ministers, the haircut was vetoed by US treasury secretary Timothy Geithner who, as his payment of $13 billion from government-owned AIG to Goldman Sachs showed, believes that bankers take priority over taxpayers. The only one to speak up for the Irish was UK chancellor George Osborne, but Geithner, as always, got his way. An instructive, if painful, lesson in the extent of US soft power, and in who our friends really are.........

Jesus Christ - where the Fuck is this mans sources ?

He is the most capable economist in Ireland and perhaps the only one to predict the ferocity of the implosion here.

He has credibility

AbbeBrel's picture

link is from further down this thread...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0507/1224296372123.html

worth reading for this LOL snippet (read it twice, or if you are English, as many times as necessary):

The original bailout plan was that the loan portfolios of Irish banks would be sold off to repay these borrowings. However, foreign banks know that many of these loans, mortgages especially, will eventually default, and were not interested. As a result, the ECB finds itself with the Irish banks wedged uncomfortably far up its fundament, and no way of dislodging them.

MiguelitoRaton's picture

Apparently, Greece has engaged Hank Johnson to tow Greece out of the Euro area. Who says Greece can't leave the Euro area? http://youtu.be/zNZczIgVXjg 

Lord Welligton's picture

Don't let Hank Johnson do it.

America needs Hank Jonhson.

 

unky's picture

wouldnt they have to push the euro down to 1.20 or at least 1.30 before they start QE3 ? because otherwise the dollar will be dead then

oogs66's picture

Greece threatens to leave Euro unless they get same deal as Portugal.

Germany says they will get skinned alive back home if they do that, they need something, especially with their economy slowing dramatically.

They decide that Trichet should turn on the printing press.  Greece, Ireland, and Portugal all get great terms and don't have to renegotiate for at least a few months.  Germany bails out the rest but gets a central banker who will do their bidding which will to print money and create a strong Euro - the Timmay and Bernanke made a strong dollar - wink wink :)

 

Hephasteus's picture

Do they have to do that gang thing where they get beat out?

rokakoma's picture

Actually I love the way EU is handling the currency war. They are not printing, bailouts cost a lot less, interest rate is higher, trade balance is zero and they can still manage with these rumors the currency to be weak and competitive.

Spitzer's picture

That's right. The ECB is in so much better shape then the Fed.

Canucklehead's picture

I agree based on "process".

At some point, people will want "product".  When that product hits the fan, the euro is gone.

The process is to lay the garbage (or should I say King's clothes) in the street for everyone to see.  That will keep the euro from becoming too popular.  The entropy of every action results in the King having fewer clothes (The PIIGS et al are laid bare).  The counterpoint to those moves is for the US to print more USD (Does it cost anything?).

At some point along the way, the value of the fiat will be exposed for everyone to see and there will be competition for global value assets (commodities, large cap stocks, sovereign debt?).  At that point, do you want sovereign debt backed by consensus within the EU, or a robust department of defense?

Spitzer's picture

I would take the creditor status Euro over the Soviet Union..er sorry I mean US debt backed by the "robust debt of defence".

Canucklehead's picture

... Aaron Barr, is that you?

equity_momo's picture

Nonsense.  

The ECB are going down exactly the same path as every other CB when the end of the road is nigh : the banks in Europe are every bit as fucked , possibly more so , than US banks. The ECB is taking toxic whalesht from these banks as collateral and granting them par value in cash.

It has been going on for well over a year. What do you think is sitting on the ECBs balance sheet when they were doing this over a year ago! : 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/05/03/us-ecb-collateral-idUSTRE6422F...

 

And who do you think has been making sure all those PIIGS auctions have been going so swimmingly? 

 

Hmmm? Someones going to have to print those yo-yos. Its quasi QE. 

Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

Carry trade unwind bichez!!

TC Collins's picture

Slightly off topic but:

Scottish Elections:

   The Scottish National Party won the election in a surprise victory. They have a majority. The party promises within 5 years to have a referendum for Scottish indpendence. Can't let the Greeks have all the fun threatening to leave a union!

Henry_Hill's picture

Just like Tony Bliar promised one too...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1564312/Labours-promises-on-an-EU-referendum.html

Lets not start believing what politicans say now

Hephasteus's picture

Oh snap. He can help murder 3 million iraqi citizens but he's going to fold on a referendum promise.

You ever get the feeling that a fuck off storm is coming. That the wizard of oz is true story. That some people are actually going to get sucked up and blown so far away it'll be like trying to walk home from a different galaxy.

theprofromdover's picture

Presidente Salmon of the Highlands wanted (desperately) to join the Euro.

And has to safeguard all the financial jobs in Edinburgh (RBS etc.) Maybe he has a new 'Iceland' plan, but I doubt it. His background was civil service and big banking. He wants to be free to join something bigger. He is being trusted this time round because he acts like an old-fashioned bank manager, and the opponents had no leadership of a color other than gray.

Small business, imaginative thinking, exporting people and ideas around the world, and freedom from religious dogma built Scotland first time round, and is it's only hope again. The Scots don't want independence, they all belong to the FO-ALMA tendency. That's what Celts are (Ireland, why do you sleep?)

 

(F* O* -and leave me alone)

godzila's picture

To be honest with so much denegations there must be something true behind those Greek rumors.

 

And we ALL know that they will default one way or another

Zero Govt's picture

Greece PM "We do not need a bailout" (they got a bailout)

Irish PM "We do not need a bailout" (they got a bailout)

Portugese PM "We do not need a bailout" (they got a bailout)

EU'S JUNCKER SAYS `NO WAY' GREECE WILL LEAVE EURO AREA.... Er, let me guess????

Spitzer's picture

Is Calerfornia going to leave the dollar zone too ?

Zero Govt's picture

California left the Dollarzone and entered outter space about 3 years ago i thought!

johnnynaps's picture

IDK, I like my free dollars! As long as I don't have to work, I like them even more!

Lord Welligton's picture

Maybe Greece will leave the California zone.

Max Hunter's picture

Did California recently switch from its own currency to the USD barely 10 years ago? Hardly a comparison.