Greece Welcomes Its New European Overlords - Juncker Warns "The Sovereignty Of Greece Will Be Massively Limited"

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Sun, 07/03/2011 - 14:16 | 1422761 equity_momo
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The Greeks still have the upper hand. Keep taking the dumb Eurotrash cash , keep missing targets for austerity and keep getting bailed out.

Does it really matter who owns the Acropolis? When we are this close to anarchy , good luck collecting taxes.

The Greeks arent paying anybody back - they're getting a free pass to keep on pissing other peoples money up the wall. Who can blame them.

Its really quite comical - Iceland werent big enough to bring down the European banking system therefore when they told Europe , namely the UK and Holland , to go fuck themselves , Europe sucked a fat one. But Greece has the ability to be the Lehman in the ointment.

Party on Greece. Youre making the bankers dance to your tune. Incredible.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 16:09 | 1422980 Bicycle Repairman
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Greece isn't going to pay anything.  Hey taxpayers and savers of Germany, bend over!!

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 18:59 | 1423186 caconhma
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I will not be surprise to see Greeks dying from starvation in the next 3-5 years.

Greece is not a sovereign country anymore. It is a fucking POS. It is another Argentina.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 19:41 | 1423224 Bicycle Repairman
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"Greeks dying from starvation"

Not in Europe.  No way.  All the "luxuries" get taken away so everyone can eat.  For free, if necessary.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 20:48 | 1423294 carbonmutant
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Greeks have more coastline per capita than Argentina

and the fishing is great...

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 05:28 | 1423739 Popo
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Sun, 07/03/2011 - 17:11 | 1423087 macholatte
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Thanks for the link AA.

That is very good news. I need a couple more weeks for my "Welcome to World War 3" party. I don't even have the invites printed yet and the caterer is on vacation. We were going to put some pieces of Fukushima Reactor 4 in the bottom of the punch bowl but that damn US Customs is holding up the shipment.



Sun, 07/03/2011 - 17:40 | 1423114 john39
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they are fools if they see the interference with the flotilla as a "sucess". anyone paying attention is now well aware that palestine is a large open air prison, that israeli ignores international law, and that israel is calling the shots for the U.S. and greece. do people still not get who are the "people" behind the the corporate banker invasion?

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 05:29 | 1423740 Popo
Popo's picture

Oh jeez

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 01:23 | 1423606 Andy Lewis
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Blow it out yer ass.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 04:41 | 1423726 jeff montanye
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cogent and homey (yer).  israel is really a lovely actor on the world stage and a wonderful geostrategic plus for the u.s.

regarding the concept of odious debt cited in the post: what portion of current u.s. debt would be odious?  bailouts of unindicted financial felons?  costs of aggressive wars (war crimes for most of the twentieth century at minimum)?  jeez (homey again) some might later even consider tax reductions for the richest of the rich (once they start with the tumbrels things get out of hand).

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 18:34 | 1423161 Arius
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thanks for sharing .... interesting article ... haaretz is a good paper

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 18:40 | 1423164 AnonymousAnarchist
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No problem. Most of the links I post on ZH come from the ICYMI RSS Feed.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 22:39 | 1423441 dark pools of soros
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it would be considered anti-semetic if written in america

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 17:02 | 1423064 Eternal Student
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I agree that the Greeks still have the upper hand. One thing which I've never seen mentioned is the concept of Eminent domain. Sure, sell the Acropolis. But then take it back for a fraction of the price..

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 17:11 | 1423080 equity_momo
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And therein lies the truth for China aswell.  Without the outright implicit threat of force , what does it matter what Greece or any BK nation does AFTER they have sold out. So Germany owns Greek national treasures - what are they going to do to protect those treasures given up for debt should the people not pay the dues the Germans , or Chinese , expect?   Tis why all those Chinese assets in Africa are worthless because when the shit hits the fan , African Warlords with AK47s and enough young men to throw at the problem , will take back what they have sold , for free (or 20 yr olds blood)

China , and Germany, will need to do more to secure their "prizes" for bailing out indebted nations.

How do you collect those taxes?   We are surely heading to war but who has the will or means to start it other than America.


Sun, 07/03/2011 - 17:28 | 1423099 trav7777
trav7777's picture

uh...African warlords never liberated Africa from colonial powers

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 17:43 | 1423119 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

They don't count.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 19:50 | 1423238 equity_momo
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Because Colonial powers have made sure to keep an influence in Africa beyond merely "buying a mine".  Coups , installing puppet governments , sending in mercenary armies and pitting rebels against rebels has been the MO for Colonial powers in Africa for the last Century.  China has alot of catch up to do - theyre an introvert nation that is clueless to geopolitics when compared to the cunning and snide ways of the West.   And Germany has always been naieve. These 2 nations are being set up for a big economic fall once again.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 22:51 | 1423459 Eternal Student
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Indeed, that is China's vulnerability. Note well that they have farms in Canada, and are on the verge of opening up "economic trade zones" in the U.S. as well.

Regarding Africa, it would really come down to factions controlled by either the U.S. or China; with the main battle being over the supply lines, particularly in the ocean. China is at a severe disadvantage there.

One would think that this would mitigate China into maintaining peaceful relations. But, as the Japanese leadership in WWII showed, arrogance can lead to extremely bad decisions. And the Chinese are extremely arrogant. Far beyond what their position, or history, earns.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 21:11 | 1423334 el Gallinazo
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You're still thinking in terms of economics. Start thinking in terms of "boots on the ground." If the Greek army and police can't control the people from reclaiming their odious debt, they will send in NATO, assuming that they have any bombs left after Libya. Probably led by General Betrayus.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 21:44 | 1423368 Eternal Student
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Yes, that would certainly be the next step up, wouldn't it? And it wouldn't be surprising at all to see it.

Yet if the U.S. was on the verge of losing Iraq until they "won" the "hearts and minds" of the population, I have to wonder how successful NATO would be?  Occupational forces are really expensive to maintain against a hostle population.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 17:04 | 1423073 AnAnonymous
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The Greeks still have the upper hand.


Sure. There were two main opposing outcomes. The destruction of the Euro (thesis widly adopted and defended by duplicitous US citizens residents) or the loss of sovereignty by Greece (which I thought to happen)

So what now? Piltchard, Mickelband, still in  Greece have the upper hand?

Integration forced march toward a European people, I say.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 20:40 | 1423288 Dan Watie
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Opah, opah. Dance, bankster dance!

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 22:06 | 1423401 CrashisOptimistic
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Important tidbit.

There has been a change of Eurostat monitoring under the new austerity package. 

What before had been quarterly, will now be monthly.  So what before would be two missed targets requiring 6 months to see, now will be only two.

The world will know this has failed very soon.  Not in a year.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 14:19 | 1422766 css1971
css1971's picture

Christ, this is like something from an Ian Flemming novel. We seriously need to reduce the power these nuts wield.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:18 | 1422883 knukles
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Or reduce the nuts of the power wielders.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:53 | 1422951 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

or weld the nuts of the power nobs

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:52 | 1422947 Thomas
Thomas's picture

Martin Feldstein said that the goal is to put it off long enough for the European banks to sell the Greek debt to the central banks. Just fucking peachy.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 22:10 | 1423179 sitenine
sitenine's picture

The global scope of the power grab is mind-bending.  TPTB are doing it a little differently in Latin America:

  There [In Latin America], to combat corruption and institutional weakness, it has been suggested that troubled countries should set up so-called charter cities – new urban developments that operate outside the dysfunctional tangle of a country’s existing rules. To ensure that these new cities stay outside the clutch of vested interests, they should also be run by foreign governments, which would appoint technocratic viceroys.

  To many, that may seem like a inconceivable ceding of sovereignty, impossible except in moments of extreme crisis. But clearly parts of central America feel they have already reached that crisis point. In January, two-thirds of the Honduran congress voted to approve the constitutional changes necessary to implement charter cities. That’s a far grimmer assessment of a country’s well-being than Evalua’s Mexico report.

Same end results.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 22:48 | 1423457 dark pools of soros
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get ready for your run as Tent City Mayor

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 02:48 | 1423664 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Another great idea by expansionists.

So an enclave whose success might come at the expense of the exterior? How new.

Really easy to suck in the vital forces of the exterior while letting the exterior digest the waste.

Non elaborated example: labour with no rules within the enclave and expell the people who are no longer able to sustaint the scheme to the exterior (after all, they are still hondurian)

Economists will call for success etc when it is the same recipe applied on a smaller scale, breaking national cohesion.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 03:05 | 1423678 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

I found more on this project:

So the guy behind the project says:

Development is not based on technology itself, nor knowledge, but on good rules expressed in laws and customs that allow to channel the creative energy of people.


Good luck with that. Another economist who can not account for history and is trying to save his 'science'


Sun, 07/03/2011 - 14:20 | 1422769 Ahmeexnal
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Albania has declared it's interest in purchasing Greece.
How the tides change. It used to be that Greeks derided Albanians.
How long until hordes of impoverished greeks start running to the Albanian border in search of a better life?

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:22 | 1422890 wandstrasse
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really? I started to doubt everything and believe everything.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 14:22 | 1422771 Herd Redirectio...
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"They are ready to accept assistance from the Eurozone"

Wow, if that isn't a euphemism for reduced sovereignty, nothing is.  I guess this is how it has been all throughout history.  Your vassal state signs a 'treaty' with a neighboring empire, and you tell your people that in the future taxes will be higher, and they will be 'accepting assistance from foreigners' in the future!

Meanwhile the King starts a massive expansion of his palace, a win-win, because not only will he have a massive palace, it is a make-work project for the serfs. 

Check out the latest from the Capital Research Institute: "Greek Bailouts - For Bankers And Politicians"

"The additional Greek bailout is clearly designed to pay back French and German banks rather than help Greece and the Greek people. The bailout means strict austerity – increasing VAT and income taxes in order to afford to pay back the loans to foreign banks. If this bailout of close to €17 billion would solve the Greek debt crisis it might be an option to consider, but it clearly won’t fix Greece’s problems and it won’t help the people in anyway, instead the bailout will make everything even worse. The only way for the situation in Greece to improve is to actually improve the crumbling Greek economy and social order. The €17 billion will be used to pay back French and German banks, almost none of it will end up in Greece to help the Greek economy to stabilize and recover.

The bailouts are not about improving anything, rather than prove that the idea of the European Union is not a failure. The bailouts are used as idealistic tools to maintain that the EU is a sound organization and that a breakup is not an option."

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 17:31 | 1423104 trav7777
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maybe the greeks should WORK on improving their own economy instead of living off of debt?

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 22:55 | 1423460 dark pools of soros
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and if all the people played nice you think that the governments wouldn't fabricate more reasons to spend wherever to force the nation into debt slaves?? Most Greeks understood the scam from the first draw and dare the system to eat itself


The governments aren't spending for the people.. they are spending for the bankers to increase their control.. just like when USA gives 'aid' to some dickwater country and then forces them to use that money to pay big corps to go establish themselves..


unless you can break away from using fiat debt money then you mineaswell rack up as much debt as they let you and never pay back.


Mon, 07/04/2011 - 02:54 | 1423668 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

maybe the greeks should WORK on improving their own economy instead of living off of debt?


Greeks follow the great US example. Nothing wrong with that.

Tue, 07/05/2011 - 10:54 | 1426471 fallout11
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Maybe Americans should WORK on improving their own economy instead of living off of debt?  Ah yes, it  is different when we do it, exceptionalism at its finest.

Sorry Trav, had to call you on this one as poorly thought out.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 14:22 | 1422774 Lazarus Long
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i'm speechless.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 14:31 | 1422795 ebworthen
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Loss of sovereignty through debt, the mantra of the klepto-oligarchs of the world.

How much sovereignty or liberty can you have when seniors have to do a reverse mortgage on their paid off house to get healthcare?

How much freedom do you have when any savings, retirement, or pension earn 0.5% or are at the mercey of HFT computers and draconian taxes of the parasitic ticks, leeches, and fluke worms on Wall Street and in Washington?

This is a financier fantasy, a whirlygig of insanity, already happening in U.S.A.


Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:15 | 1422874 Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

Too true. Many states asked for federal funds and federal assistance.

Us citizens are already taxed directly by the Feds and indirectly via currency debasement and inflation. Then the Feds give funds to the states and lose state sovereignty.

At least Utah and Texas have started to try and fight back

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:37 | 1422919 Jack Napier
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Meanwhile New Jersey is starting a new trend by asking for money from JP Morgan. I think I see a new strategy that could work for the people. Every state borrow money from JP Morgan, turn around and buy silver with it, crash the company due to their silver shorts, and then you won't have to pay it back.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 23:01 | 1423472 dark pools of soros
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You won't crash them until every bomb has been dropped first... banksters are above the governments in the food chain

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 14:32 | 1422800 Troy Ounce
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Why the hell would anyone in Greece want to pay taxes?

The State is now your enemy.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:03 | 1422862 duo
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As we approach the 4th, ponder the comparison of Greece vs. IMF/ECB, and the colonies vs King George III/Bank of England.  King George needed revenue to pay back his war debts, and strip mining the colonies was easier than raising taxes back in England.  The military presence in New England was essentially to enforce taxes and levies.

When Greek families are asked to quarter a German tax collector, history will have come full circle.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 16:20 | 1423002 Bicycle Repairman
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