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Greece Welcomes Its New European Overlords - Juncker Warns "The Sovereignty Of Greece Will Be Massively Limited"

Tyler Durden's picture


The Greek indigents huffed and puffed, broke a couple of marble plates from Syntagma square, striked for a few days (or is that stroke?), and achieved nothing. In the meantime, their government just sold off the country to European banking interests. But don't take our word for it. Take the word (on those very rare occasions when it is actually telling the truth) of Eurogroup chairman Jean-Claude Juncker who just told Focus magazine that "The sovereignty of Greece will be massively limited." And just like DSK's innocence was effectively granted 2 days after Christine Lagarde was made new head of the IMF (we still are waiting for the IMF to have a statement on the recent DSK developments), so Juncker's stunning disclosure comes not even 12 hours after the 5th Greek bailout package has been released. Per the Guardian: "Juncker's interview appeared just hours after Eurozone ministers signed off the fifth tranche of last year's bailout, worth €12bn. The payment must now be rubber-stamped by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and pushed through by 15 July in time to meet several bond repayment deadlines. Agreeing the latest IMF payout, on 8 July, will be an early task for Christine Lagarde, the new IMF boss, who starts work in Washington on Wednesday." One wonders how different, it at all, DSK's probanker stance would have been had he still been the IMF head.

Per the Guardian:

Juncker said Greece needed to adopt a process similar to the Treuhand agency, used by Germany to sell off 14,000 former East German firms between 1990 and 1994 – even though Treuhand failed to deliver any profit, oversaw huge job losses and eventually closed its books with a deficit.

But he did appear to acknowledge that the Greeks were hostile to foreign officials appearing to take charge: "One cannot be allowed to insult the Greeks. But one has to help them. They have said they are ready to accept expertise from the eurozone."

Athens, together with European leaders and the IMF, must now start work on a second €110bn bailout for Greece, which must be finalised by September and is likely to include private-sector involvement.

In the meantime, and in the purest definition of insanity, Greece is now "fighting" record debt with even more record debt:

The European commission conceded on Saturday, after the two-hour Eurogroup teleconference agreed the fifth tranche payout, that any plan to cut Greece's debt of 160% of economic output would be at risk of being derailed by internal unrest or external economic conditions. Growth just one percentage point below expectations, it said, would push Greece's debt to 170% of GDP, and rising, past 2020.

For the first time, the commission's report also discusses debt restructuring, including a possible 40% "haircut" – a forced reduction in the value of Greek bonds – which would devastate Greek banks and, the report warns, could reverberate on Ireland, Portugal and Spain.

Which means that European bankers will only have a few months in which to pick Greek bones dry and buy up various islands, before the charade ends. For their sake, however, we hope they realize that buying "assets" or even islands in a nation, that now loathes everything to do with a "united" Europe, a "united" currency, and the banker klepto-oligarchy, will need substantial fortifications and firepower, for when the tide inevitably turns and Europe realizes it was it that has been fooled and has been throwing ever more good money after bad, as the locals seek to reclaim not only what is rightfully theirs but determines that Greek Odious Debt is about 100% of total debt outstanding.



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Sun, 07/03/2011 - 14:16 | 1422761 equity_momo
equity_momo's picture

The Greeks still have the upper hand. Keep taking the dumb Eurotrash cash , keep missing targets for austerity and keep getting bailed out.

Does it really matter who owns the Acropolis? When we are this close to anarchy , good luck collecting taxes.

The Greeks arent paying anybody back - they're getting a free pass to keep on pissing other peoples money up the wall. Who can blame them.

Its really quite comical - Iceland werent big enough to bring down the European banking system therefore when they told Europe , namely the UK and Holland , to go fuck themselves , Europe sucked a fat one. But Greece has the ability to be the Lehman in the ointment.

Party on Greece. Youre making the bankers dance to your tune. Incredible.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 16:09 | 1422980 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Greece isn't going to pay anything.  Hey taxpayers and savers of Germany, bend over!!

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 18:59 | 1423186 caconhma
caconhma's picture

I will not be surprise to see Greeks dying from starvation in the next 3-5 years.

Greece is not a sovereign country anymore. It is a fucking POS. It is another Argentina.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 19:41 | 1423224 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

"Greeks dying from starvation"

Not in Europe.  No way.  All the "luxuries" get taken away so everyone can eat.  For free, if necessary.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 20:48 | 1423294 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Greeks have more coastline per capita than Argentina

and the fishing is great...

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 05:28 | 1423739 Popo
Popo's picture


Sun, 07/03/2011 - 17:11 | 1423087 macholatte
macholatte's picture

Thanks for the link AA.

That is very good news. I need a couple more weeks for my "Welcome to World War 3" party. I don't even have the invites printed yet and the caterer is on vacation. We were going to put some pieces of Fukushima Reactor 4 in the bottom of the punch bowl but that damn US Customs is holding up the shipment.



Sun, 07/03/2011 - 17:40 | 1423114 john39
john39's picture

they are fools if they see the interference with the flotilla as a "sucess". anyone paying attention is now well aware that palestine is a large open air prison, that israeli ignores international law, and that israel is calling the shots for the U.S. and greece. do people still not get who are the "people" behind the the corporate banker invasion?

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 05:29 | 1423740 Popo
Popo's picture

Oh jeez

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 01:23 | 1423606 Andy Lewis
Andy Lewis's picture

Blow it out yer ass.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 04:41 | 1423726 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

cogent and homey (yer).  israel is really a lovely actor on the world stage and a wonderful geostrategic plus for the u.s.

regarding the concept of odious debt cited in the post: what portion of current u.s. debt would be odious?  bailouts of unindicted financial felons?  costs of aggressive wars (war crimes for most of the twentieth century at minimum)?  jeez (homey again) some might later even consider tax reductions for the richest of the rich (once they start with the tumbrels things get out of hand).

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 18:34 | 1423161 Arius
Arius's picture

thanks for sharing .... interesting article ... haaretz is a good paper

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 18:40 | 1423164 AnonymousAnarchist
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No problem. Most of the links I post on ZH come from the ICYMI RSS Feed.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 22:39 | 1423441 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

it would be considered anti-semetic if written in america

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 17:02 | 1423064 Eternal Student
Eternal Student's picture

I agree that the Greeks still have the upper hand. One thing which I've never seen mentioned is the concept of Eminent domain. Sure, sell the Acropolis. But then take it back for a fraction of the price..

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 17:11 | 1423080 equity_momo
equity_momo's picture

And therein lies the truth for China aswell.  Without the outright implicit threat of force , what does it matter what Greece or any BK nation does AFTER they have sold out. So Germany owns Greek national treasures - what are they going to do to protect those treasures given up for debt should the people not pay the dues the Germans , or Chinese , expect?   Tis why all those Chinese assets in Africa are worthless because when the shit hits the fan , African Warlords with AK47s and enough young men to throw at the problem , will take back what they have sold , for free (or 20 yr olds blood)

China , and Germany, will need to do more to secure their "prizes" for bailing out indebted nations.

How do you collect those taxes?   We are surely heading to war but who has the will or means to start it other than America.


Sun, 07/03/2011 - 17:28 | 1423099 trav7777
trav7777's picture

uh...African warlords never liberated Africa from colonial powers

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 17:43 | 1423119 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

They don't count.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 19:50 | 1423238 equity_momo
equity_momo's picture

Because Colonial powers have made sure to keep an influence in Africa beyond merely "buying a mine".  Coups , installing puppet governments , sending in mercenary armies and pitting rebels against rebels has been the MO for Colonial powers in Africa for the last Century.  China has alot of catch up to do - theyre an introvert nation that is clueless to geopolitics when compared to the cunning and snide ways of the West.   And Germany has always been naieve. These 2 nations are being set up for a big economic fall once again.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 22:51 | 1423459 Eternal Student
Eternal Student's picture

Indeed, that is China's vulnerability. Note well that they have farms in Canada, and are on the verge of opening up "economic trade zones" in the U.S. as well.

Regarding Africa, it would really come down to factions controlled by either the U.S. or China; with the main battle being over the supply lines, particularly in the ocean. China is at a severe disadvantage there.

One would think that this would mitigate China into maintaining peaceful relations. But, as the Japanese leadership in WWII showed, arrogance can lead to extremely bad decisions. And the Chinese are extremely arrogant. Far beyond what their position, or history, earns.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 21:11 | 1423334 el Gallinazo
el Gallinazo's picture

You're still thinking in terms of economics. Start thinking in terms of "boots on the ground." If the Greek army and police can't control the people from reclaiming their odious debt, they will send in NATO, assuming that they have any bombs left after Libya. Probably led by General Betrayus.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 21:44 | 1423368 Eternal Student
Eternal Student's picture

Yes, that would certainly be the next step up, wouldn't it? And it wouldn't be surprising at all to see it.

Yet if the U.S. was on the verge of losing Iraq until they "won" the "hearts and minds" of the population, I have to wonder how successful NATO would be?  Occupational forces are really expensive to maintain against a hostle population.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 17:04 | 1423073 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

The Greeks still have the upper hand.


Sure. There were two main opposing outcomes. The destruction of the Euro (thesis widly adopted and defended by duplicitous US citizens residents) or the loss of sovereignty by Greece (which I thought to happen)

So what now? Piltchard, Mickelband, still in  Greece have the upper hand?

Integration forced march toward a European people, I say.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 20:40 | 1423288 Dan Watie
Dan Watie's picture

Opah, opah. Dance, bankster dance!

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 22:06 | 1423401 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Important tidbit.

There has been a change of Eurostat monitoring under the new austerity package. 

What before had been quarterly, will now be monthly.  So what before would be two missed targets requiring 6 months to see, now will be only two.

The world will know this has failed very soon.  Not in a year.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 14:19 | 1422766 css1971
css1971's picture

Christ, this is like something from an Ian Flemming novel. We seriously need to reduce the power these nuts wield.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:18 | 1422883 knukles
knukles's picture

Or reduce the nuts of the power wielders.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:53 | 1422951 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

or weld the nuts of the power nobs

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:52 | 1422947 Thomas
Thomas's picture

Martin Feldstein said that the goal is to put it off long enough for the European banks to sell the Greek debt to the central banks. Just fucking peachy.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 22:10 | 1423179 sitenine
sitenine's picture

The global scope of the power grab is mind-bending.  TPTB are doing it a little differently in Latin America:

  There [In Latin America], to combat corruption and institutional weakness, it has been suggested that troubled countries should set up so-called charter cities – new urban developments that operate outside the dysfunctional tangle of a country’s existing rules. To ensure that these new cities stay outside the clutch of vested interests, they should also be run by foreign governments, which would appoint technocratic viceroys.

  To many, that may seem like a inconceivable ceding of sovereignty, impossible except in moments of extreme crisis. But clearly parts of central America feel they have already reached that crisis point. In January, two-thirds of the Honduran congress voted to approve the constitutional changes necessary to implement charter cities. That’s a far grimmer assessment of a country’s well-being than Evalua’s Mexico report.

Same end results.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 22:48 | 1423457 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

get ready for your run as Tent City Mayor

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 02:48 | 1423664 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Another great idea by expansionists.

So an enclave whose success might come at the expense of the exterior? How new.

Really easy to suck in the vital forces of the exterior while letting the exterior digest the waste.

Non elaborated example: labour with no rules within the enclave and expell the people who are no longer able to sustaint the scheme to the exterior (after all, they are still hondurian)

Economists will call for success etc when it is the same recipe applied on a smaller scale, breaking national cohesion.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 03:05 | 1423678 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

I found more on this project:

So the guy behind the project says:

Development is not based on technology itself, nor knowledge, but on good rules expressed in laws and customs that allow to channel the creative energy of people.


Good luck with that. Another economist who can not account for history and is trying to save his 'science'


Sun, 07/03/2011 - 14:20 | 1422769 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Albania has declared it's interest in purchasing Greece.
How the tides change. It used to be that Greeks derided Albanians.
How long until hordes of impoverished greeks start running to the Albanian border in search of a better life?

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:22 | 1422890 wandstrasse
wandstrasse's picture

really? I started to doubt everything and believe everything.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 14:22 | 1422771 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

"They are ready to accept assistance from the Eurozone"

Wow, if that isn't a euphemism for reduced sovereignty, nothing is.  I guess this is how it has been all throughout history.  Your vassal state signs a 'treaty' with a neighboring empire, and you tell your people that in the future taxes will be higher, and they will be 'accepting assistance from foreigners' in the future!

Meanwhile the King starts a massive expansion of his palace, a win-win, because not only will he have a massive palace, it is a make-work project for the serfs. 

Check out the latest from the Capital Research Institute: "Greek Bailouts - For Bankers And Politicians"

"The additional Greek bailout is clearly designed to pay back French and German banks rather than help Greece and the Greek people. The bailout means strict austerity – increasing VAT and income taxes in order to afford to pay back the loans to foreign banks. If this bailout of close to €17 billion would solve the Greek debt crisis it might be an option to consider, but it clearly won’t fix Greece’s problems and it won’t help the people in anyway, instead the bailout will make everything even worse. The only way for the situation in Greece to improve is to actually improve the crumbling Greek economy and social order. The €17 billion will be used to pay back French and German banks, almost none of it will end up in Greece to help the Greek economy to stabilize and recover.

The bailouts are not about improving anything, rather than prove that the idea of the European Union is not a failure. The bailouts are used as idealistic tools to maintain that the EU is a sound organization and that a breakup is not an option."

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 17:31 | 1423104 trav7777
trav7777's picture

maybe the greeks should WORK on improving their own economy instead of living off of debt?

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 22:55 | 1423460 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

and if all the people played nice you think that the governments wouldn't fabricate more reasons to spend wherever to force the nation into debt slaves?? Most Greeks understood the scam from the first draw and dare the system to eat itself


The governments aren't spending for the people.. they are spending for the bankers to increase their control.. just like when USA gives 'aid' to some dickwater country and then forces them to use that money to pay big corps to go establish themselves..


unless you can break away from using fiat debt money then you mineaswell rack up as much debt as they let you and never pay back.


Mon, 07/04/2011 - 02:54 | 1423668 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

maybe the greeks should WORK on improving their own economy instead of living off of debt?


Greeks follow the great US example. Nothing wrong with that.

Tue, 07/05/2011 - 10:54 | 1426471 fallout11
fallout11's picture

Maybe Americans should WORK on improving their own economy instead of living off of debt?  Ah yes, it  is different when we do it, exceptionalism at its finest.

Sorry Trav, had to call you on this one as poorly thought out.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 14:22 | 1422774 Lazarus Long
Lazarus Long's picture

i'm speechless.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 14:31 | 1422795 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture


Loss of sovereignty through debt, the mantra of the klepto-oligarchs of the world.

How much sovereignty or liberty can you have when seniors have to do a reverse mortgage on their paid off house to get healthcare?

How much freedom do you have when any savings, retirement, or pension earn 0.5% or are at the mercey of HFT computers and draconian taxes of the parasitic ticks, leeches, and fluke worms on Wall Street and in Washington?

This is a financier fantasy, a whirlygig of insanity, already happening in U.S.A.


Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:15 | 1422874 Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

Too true. Many states asked for federal funds and federal assistance.

Us citizens are already taxed directly by the Feds and indirectly via currency debasement and inflation. Then the Feds give funds to the states and lose state sovereignty.

At least Utah and Texas have started to try and fight back

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:37 | 1422919 Jack Napier
Jack Napier's picture

Meanwhile New Jersey is starting a new trend by asking for money from JP Morgan. I think I see a new strategy that could work for the people. Every state borrow money from JP Morgan, turn around and buy silver with it, crash the company due to their silver shorts, and then you won't have to pay it back.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 23:01 | 1423472 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

You won't crash them until every bomb has been dropped first... banksters are above the governments in the food chain

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 14:32 | 1422800 Troy Ounce
Troy Ounce's picture


Why the hell would anyone in Greece want to pay taxes?

The State is now your enemy.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:03 | 1422862 duo
duo's picture

As we approach the 4th, ponder the comparison of Greece vs. IMF/ECB, and the colonies vs King George III/Bank of England.  King George needed revenue to pay back his war debts, and strip mining the colonies was easier than raising taxes back in England.  The military presence in New England was essentially to enforce taxes and levies.

When Greek families are asked to quarter a German tax collector, history will have come full circle.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 16:20 | 1423002 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture


Sun, 07/03/2011 - 14:34 | 1422805 squexx
squexx's picture

Greek style hurts! OUCH!!!!

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:25 | 1422897 wandstrasse
wandstrasse's picture

I detect undertones of non-reproductive sexual practices.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 16:01 | 1422965 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Subtle. i detected strong overtones actually.


Sun, 07/03/2011 - 14:42 | 1422822 Tense INDIAN
Tense INDIAN's picture

Bank NIfty and WEEKLY charts :::

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 14:53 | 1422825 Loose Caboose
Loose Caboose's picture

For the first time, the commission's report also discusses debt restructuring, including a possible 40% "haircut" – a forced reduction in the value of Greek bonds – which would devastate Greek banks and, the report warns, could reverberate on Ireland, Portugal and Spain.

Why would this haircut reverberate on Ireland,Portugal and Spain when it seems that it is France that has the most exposure to Greek default?  Is it because the other countries are less able to absorb the the hit?


Sun, 07/03/2011 - 14:48 | 1422829 MS7
MS7's picture

I know that there was no way to stop this bill from passing. That's what the troika bosses wanted, after all. In that sense, the protest could not be expected to achieve much.

However, the protest failed as a protest for one reason-- the presence of the "hooded youths" or "known unknowns" or whatever term is used to describe these violent young men. There is ample evidence that at least some of them are working with the police to stir up violence, and to provide justification for police to throw tear gas and beat people, as happened June 29. Curiously, they only showed up on special days, such as the day of the vote. And curiously, the police never manage to catch them. I'd say the terrorizing the police did on the 29th is going to have a chilling effect on people's right to free speech and assembly. There is an investigation of police underway, but I don't know how far that will go.

I hope the movement continues and I hope they elect a new government that will nationalize all the assets and kick the financial occupiers out. I wish the protesters would focus their demands on one thing-- early elections. The longer G-Pap stays in power, the harder it will be to kick him out.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:02 | 1422860 MarketWatchTerrorist
MarketWatchTerrorist's picture

It has been proven that this goes on in Canada.  No doubt they are taking pointers from the U.S. in how to deal with protests that are not approved by the government.


I can't be bothered to look up the video right now, but it is masked young men with rocks wearing police boots trying to incite a riot.  When the protest leader calls them out on it, they run behind police lines...back with their piggy brothers.  Outright, blatant, anti-democratic, corruption in all Western nations.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 04:59 | 1423733 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

there are apparently a library of such videos:

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:40 | 1422918 Troy Ounce
Troy Ounce's picture

The agents provocateurs of the international banks during the riots in Greece:



Sun, 07/03/2011 - 14:53 | 1422841 G-R-U-N-T
G-R-U-N-T's picture

My comment from the previous Greek crisis post with edit...

Greeks will soon be at the crossroads. They will have a choice: Take the debt slave devils road to hell or pull themselves up by their bootstraps and take care of business.


Bootstrapping or booting refers to a group of metaphors that share a common meaning: a self-sustaining process that proceeds without external help.


Sun, 07/03/2011 - 14:54 | 1422842 MarketWatchTerrorist
MarketWatchTerrorist's picture

Under the New World Order, the "sovereignty" of all previously sovereign nations will be "severely limited."

That is to say, the liberty of all previously free peoples will be severely limited.

All according to plan.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 17:34 | 1423107 trav7777
trav7777's picture

certainly that is what all the trade treaties have done...environmental regs can be deemed an "expropriation" under NAFTA and force a payout to the polluters.

All the leaders have said it's necessary to curtail these silly notions of sovereignty.  Surely, the extralegal UN plutocrats would love this.  They're already diplomatically immune everywhere.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 23:10 | 1423483 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

they will continue with that and starve China of middle east Oil.. everything is being carved up.. if Russia and China survive/prosper with their own resources, the cabal wont care.. but they won't let them take from anywhere else ..  perhaps from Chavez of course..  which will probably be the starting point of WWIII

 I believe Iran is just noise that every side uses for their own benefit

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:01 | 1422859 akak
akak's picture

I await Leo here to tell us exactly why this is "good" for the average Greek, while at the same time "there is absolutely nothing that anyone can do to change it".

It's one thing to be willing to lick your master's boots, but quite another thing to be eagerly willing to perform fellatio on them without even being asked.

Go wipe your face, Leo.  Again.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:45 | 1422932 doggings
doggings's picture

i dont know about you but I'm buying Greek bonds and Chinese solars as fast as my unemployment benefit allows..

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 16:28 | 1423014 akak
akak's picture

I hear that both are soon going to be eligible purchases under the SNAP program.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:17 | 1422873 A Man without Q...
A Man without Qualities's picture

There is anything of the order of €40 billion per year of tax evasion in Greece, and that's before you factor in that the most successful industry, shipping, is tax free.  All we hear about is how they need to raise taxes and cut spending, but it seems the most important thing is for the all these rich arrogant fucks, who never stop talking about how proud they are to be Greek and how they are the fathers of democracy to pay their fucking taxes.

The most insulting part of this is how the Greek situation is a continuation of the global policy of making the rich richer and the poor poorer.  G-Pap talks about sacrifices, but he knows that the Greek elites have siphoned billions offshore and have been the key beneficiaries of the borrow and spend policies, because they have been able to distract the common man while they made off with the loot.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:21 | 1422887 Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

By and in itself there is nothing wrong with no tax. You cannot however pay nothing for services you receive. Be it safe waterways via shipping, mass transit or public goods such as fire responders. Not saying the free market can't supply this, especially in the absence of tax, but I am saying you can't have it both ways, no tax and lots of government spending, as the USA will soon find out.

The biggest joke is how so few people understand the inflation of the money supply being the mechanism for transferring wealth. The increase in commodity prices are the last stages of inflation. The initial stages of freshly printed money going to the rich first, means they get to use that money first,before prices have risen, and they get to acquire assets by front running the coming price inflation

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 17:02 | 1423070 ATM
ATM's picture


Sun, 07/03/2011 - 23:14 | 1423486 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

think deeper at what you just said..  why would the ones that benefit from watering down the money wait until there is a real reason, when they can just fabricate stories of lazy this & tighten belt that?


Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:15 | 1422876 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

See, Hitler did it the hard way.

If he had mobilized the world's bankers he would have won ten times over by now.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 23:15 | 1423488 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

truer words have yet to be written

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:15 | 1422878 JR
JR's picture

As in Lola’s melody in Damn Yankees, “whatever Juncker wants, Juncker gets,” if the Greek politicians agree as Joe Boyd did to sell their souls to the Devil, the IMF, to beat the Damn Bankers.

Boyd had an escape clause and Greece has an escape clause – default or revolution.

Joe Boyd escaped, one second before the Devil’s deadline. And Joe’s home run to defeat the Yankees, in the end, came without the Devil’s help.  Greece can reclaim her proud heritage by turning her back on the Satanic IMF and their duplicitous politicians. The decision is hers.

Whatever Lola wants
Lola gets
And little man, little Lola wants you.
Make up your mind to have no regrets
Recline yourself, resign yourself, you're through
I always get what I aim for
And your heart'n soul is what I came for.

Whatever Lola wants
Lola gets,
Take off your coat
Don't you know you can't win?
You're no exception to the rule,
I'm irresistible, you fool, give in!...Give in!...Give in!

Hello, Joe
It's me
He hits so far
-hold on-that's you
Poo poo pa doop

I always get what I aim for
And you heart'n soul is what I came for
...Lola wants
...Lola gets
...You'll never win
I'm irresistible, you fool,
Give in...Give in...Give in.

Joe Boyd resisted... and won!

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:23 | 1422892 Franken_Stein
Franken_Stein's picture


Down with the New World Order !

Down with investment bankers !

Crash the financial system NOW !


Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:23 | 1422893 Itinerant
Itinerant's picture

Striked (or is that stroke)? They struck, but did not strike gold.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:39 | 1422921 zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

 It is doubtful that the Greek people are going to honor the agreements of their corrupt politicians. Greeks have long distanced themselves from their government, which they demonstrate with their

 compliance to tax laws. We have not witnessed the end of resistance to European oppression.

 The cradle of Democracy is not going to submit to their new masters without a fight. The Greeks

 are a passionate people and once that passion is channeled into a battle for their freedom, the

 world will take notice and the "invaders" of Greece will be repelled.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:49 | 1422936 G-R-U-N-T
G-R-U-N-T's picture

I pray that happens ZTG...The world needs to see this passion if indeed the Greek people have it in them. Of course I believe it is directly related to how much more pain they can endure before they snap.




Sun, 07/03/2011 - 17:08 | 1423078 ATM
ATM's picture

They will snap eventually but by then the banksters will have off-loaded their worthless Greek bonds on the people of Germany, Netherlands and France. They will have pulled off the perfect switcheroo!

Steal Greece from the Greeks then when you are about to be wiped out because the Greeks refused to pay, you threaten the rest of Europe with death and destruction if they don't give you all the profits you deem you are worthy of!

I suppose this things runs on to when the Germans and French and Dutch are about to default and the banksters need to rip off the Chinese but I suspect the Chinese will just wipe these fuckers from face of the earth rather than get scammed.  

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:40 | 1422926 lawton
lawton's picture

The Greeks need to raise the intensity of these riots and have a true revoltion and tell all of those bankers to go pound sand.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 17:10 | 1423083 ATM
ATM's picture

They won't until reality sets in and that's going to be a few months. They won't beleive that things can be so bad, then they will think that things can't get any worse and when they do they will explode. The banksters have bought time and that's it but time let's them get away and destroy the evidence by passing off the worthless debt to the rest of Europe or maybe the Bernenk.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:48 | 1422939 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

Who in their right mind would want to buy Greek State "Assets".

The people will stop paying utility bills.

Sabotage will occur.

The only assets worth buying would be those that can be stripped clean and taken from the country.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 16:13 | 1422989 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

When the grandchildren ask what happened to the prior inhabitants who built the temples and sculpted these statues, we will simply tell them: "There were not really very many of these greek men ... the land seemed empty to invaders who came from settled Europe . . . that ancient, primeval, undisturbed wilderness . . . the ocean simply boiled with fish ... so much game . . . that one hunter counted a thousand cows near a single salt lick ... the virgin wilderness of Greece's beaches ... the sand and glory of primitive Spartan culture"

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:58 | 1422961 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

It is normal to have to protect children, the insane and fools, from themselves.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 16:00 | 1422963 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Who exactly are the Greeks giving sovereignty too - there are no formal structures of new Governance just a nod nod wink wink.

I imagine that when the Germans invaded Greece last time there was a official chain of command somewhere with real power

What exactly do we have now ?

The Triumph of Paper over Politics I guess.

We live in strange twisted times.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 16:16 | 1422995 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Capital is the Sovereignty.


Name me a 'developed' country where this isn't the case, and we'll discuss it. Otherwise, the question seems deliberately obscurest.


Sun, 07/03/2011 - 16:48 | 1423048 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Its just that the EU seems such a strange distorted dysfunctional repellent little thing - it has no real poltical legitimacy - it projects power purely through monetory means.

It hard for ordinary people to fight or even identify such a Ghost - swords would merely go right through this mirage without any damage done.

The extensive effort in the planning of this strange creation is especially disturbing - although nation states were a product of the prince and the banker it seems their creation was more organic somehow - this is a purely synthetic beast.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 17:17 | 1423092 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

I think you're viewing it in the wrong light.

If you look through the glass darkly, you'll see the 30 years wars, post WWII chaos and so on. The 20th C racked up over a billion deaths purely from warfare, let alone starvation & disease.

The EU was an attempt, by some serious people, to prevent a repeat of the 20th Century in Europe. Of course, places such as ex-colonial Africa got totally screwed.


To attempt a moment of satori: India & Pakistan recently were in the world 'cup' of cricket, where the final was to be held in India. They'd not played each other for a number of years due to political tension (Mumbai massacres etc) - in the semi final (I think - sorry, don't follow cricket) they played each other - and about 500 million people were set to riot if Pakistan won. Pakistan lost; now was this due to chance, skill or the (previously proven) bribe culture in Pakistani cricket?

Who knows - all we do know is that Pakistan lost, India went onto the final, and there weren't riots that threatened geopolitical destabilisation and the possibility of limited nuclear engagement. Think on this, and the National Geographic lead story the same week suggesting that a limited nuclear exchange would provide enough disruption (nuclear mini-winter) to offset global warming.


In the great game, ordinary people are pawns, and the kings & queens don't have absolute divine right anymore.


Sun, 07/03/2011 - 18:29 | 1423157 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

@Use of Weapons

Well I see the Great War as a war of the Central banks albeit fought with Queens bury rules on their part.

I think the Entire thing was a conspiracy to transfer European Gold to the newly created FED and thus create a new superpower.

In essence the Banks outgrew their host.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 19:29 | 1423209 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

A personal opinion:

What we're witnessing is the death of the progressive / uplift movement within TPTB. There was (and I'm currently reading the 1966/7 Phoenix project projections for the year 2000, with great pieces by Antony Weiner amongst others - oooh, the chills that transition from his piece to twitting his codpiece entails) a faith that it was possible - and everything was done to make the "trickle down" work. The "NWO" was actually a progressive movement, fyi.

50% obesity rates, and all the social ills means that faction lost.

2.6 billion people rely predominately on fish for protein - and warnings 10 years ago have transposed into ultimatums that in the next 10 years we're looking at a great die-off, not to mention land based species. This means, simply, that 7 billion is looking at at least a 20% cull, if not more.

I'm afraid that the 'good guys' are currently working over-time to prevent the inevitable. I am, and I'm sorry to say this, am not on their side. Homo Sapiens needs to earn its title, in the 21st C - and reducing this all to pure capital gains has not worked. Then again, I'm equally unimpressed by the squids & lizards side of it - imaginary money is no substitute for actually fixing problems, and private capital has been awful in solving real issues.


There's a third way, and it involves growth. Just not the "infinite" kind that homo economicus was projected to entail.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 21:18 | 1423340 SHRAGS
SHRAGS's picture

Pardon my ignorance, what is the Phoenix Project?  Do you have a link?

Tue, 07/05/2011 - 17:59 | 1427881 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Hmm, there's not a link for that study. There never is, as it is "remade" each year.

For my reference, try:

Herman Kahn and Antony J. Wiener "The Next Thirty-Three Years: A Framework for Speculation".

Try Daedalus version, ISBN 0-262-52237-3 Congress Library 68-17173 for public version - still interesting copy though. (Daedalus, of course, made the wings that lead to... well, you know the rest. Puns & classical references, Zzzzz)


[Cross citations. It harkens from an era when the public debate was worthwhile, and actually mirrored the Big B debates. Trawl through, you'll see that they totally mis-judged Vietnam, and a few others. The Wiener paper is worthwhile for the 100 list, and socio-political control methods]



Mon, 07/04/2011 - 10:19 | 1424103 Mad Cow
Mad Cow's picture

Who gets to decide who lives and dies in this "third way?" Sounds like the same old shit to me.

Tue, 07/05/2011 - 18:20 | 1427888 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Why does anyone have to die?

There's sixteen projects I can think of at the moment that (taking the average budget of military spend / annum globally) could easily be made to work, fully funded. And I'm not talking about "ceasing all military hippy style". I'm talking "no need for R&D, and ceasing 90% of black funding crap... for a year". Given the lack of "whoo-haaar" apart from in oil nations, I'm thinking... no. one. will. notice. barring. corrupt. senators/congressmen.

Then again, the UN just signed over privitisation of water rights to fucking M & Aquafeds. Dickheads. Now, I'm afraid - it is war. And it is war without end. Because that stupid rip-off "H2O in a bottle" you pay more for than petrol? 5 billion people don't have that luxury, and they're about to get pissed off. How retarded can you be? Seriously? Let's privitise water, and not meet safety standards and laugh because we don't live there? Hmm. That's one way to have your pipelines bombed out.


Jesus - this is like watching a play from Jesus demanding the Romans Crucify him. It. Is. That. Bad. Is Mel running American / Corporate water policy? Because its that fucking retarded.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 23:24 | 1423502 awkward squad
awkward squad's picture

And now it's boomtime in Israel!

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 04:01 | 1423711 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

"...the EU seems such a strange distorted dysfunctional repellent little thing - it has no real poltical legitimacy - it projects power purely through monetary means..."

What is actually your issue with the EU? Besides the fact that so much propaganda is done against it? Bring some facts to this opinion.

The EU is the product of voluntary agreements between sovereign states. It's an "alliance of princes", to put it in the terms you are describing. The political legitimacy stems from the sovereign countries that make part of it. Most of the countries taking part of it have a history of making this kind of agreements.

I start to think you are too young to remember the time where EFTA was created. Look it up, it's before globalization struck full force again.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 20:07 | 1425338 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Ghordius - you are a obvious functionary , how much do they pay you ?

A bit of advice - a more subversive set of arguments may be a more effective propoganda instrument.

This euro vision bluntness is effective is a sort of fascistic kind of way and is much appreciated from a connoisseur's perspective but it just does not cut it for me.

Sorry old sport.


Mon, 07/04/2011 - 20:10 | 1425339 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Double post.

I guess it takes all kinds of everything



Sun, 07/03/2011 - 17:13 | 1423088 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

As usual...GREAT question.  (pardoning the "to" not "too" of course.  as the greatest speller of our age i have to point thees things out.)  it still feels like Europe is bailing out the PM and not Greece at all--but i am unclear as well.  Besides just "handing over the dough" what's the plan exactly?  Fire everybody?  Okay.  And then what?  Isn't this why in the USA a "bailout for your bank" should be seen very much as a two edged sword?  How is profitability regained without regaining the ability to lend to scale again?  In the USA Fannie/Fred are backstopping pretty much all mortgages--or at least they have been for some time.  Doesn't that mean they control the entire industry past/present and future and can therefore do as they please with the existing debt and debt holders?  Seems to me if you control the market (and by being overwhelmingly the primary guarantor of all new mortgages by definition means you control that massive market) the answer to me is absolutely yes.  And now we're talking so called "sovereign" Europe?  who answers for that?

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 16:00 | 1422964 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Tylers, the Greeks Struck.
Actually they are stuck.
Their papas suck.
All over a buck.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 16:11 | 1422977 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Greece has been sucking on Europe's Tit for 2 decades now. They waisted money like you can't believe, the citizens knew that enormous projects where waisting Europe's money and the Greeks lived WAY above their standard.

They knew things wheren't right. They knew they profited from Europe, but why should they have cared?

And now their story is over. Europe didn't had anymore money to spend so Greece went belly up.

And now they have to pay.




They didn't care when others people's money was waisted. When others had to pay higher taxes to fund their exploids.

Why should we care if they pay for the next 100 years?

If they really care, they will have to build a industrial base.

We'll see if they want to work or not.

We'll see how many of those 70% govenrment workers is willing to work for real.


Sun, 07/03/2011 - 16:21 | 1423003 css1971
css1971's picture


Your vocabulary, spelling and grammar appear to have degenerated somewhat.


Sun, 07/03/2011 - 19:42 | 1423228 AwlDone
AwlDone's picture

"waisted" may have been meant.  An AwlFul lot of their politicians seem to have expanded their waist-lines in the euro-trough.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 21:28 | 1423350 SHRAGS
SHRAGS's picture

How many languages do you speak? Did you understand his message? He's from Belgium & probably writing in his second or third language.  

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 21:45 | 1423369 akak
akak's picture

I live in a basically rural part of the USA, and I never cease to be amazed at how many people in this area are astounded to learn that a native-born American such as myself speaks more than English --- particularly when so many Europeans I have met speak three, four, or more languages as a matter of course.  It is just another sign of the provincialism and proudly arrogant insularity of most Americans.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 16:25 | 1423007 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

At the end of the day the average Greek is not going to pay much.  Is the EU going to have a slave state as part of the EU?  The "pain" will be shared throughout the EU.  The productive will bear this and every other burden; Spain, Italy, etc..


Ireland will be an exception.  Slavery seems to suit them.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 16:46 | 1423043 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Maybe they won't have to pay much, but they'll never get that standard of living again they had untill now.

If they are lucky, maybe half or 1/3.

So maybe not paying like you said, but never again will their future look bright.


Sun, 07/03/2011 - 17:35 | 1423108 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Widen that to the entire first world, and you've hit the jackpot.



Sun, 07/03/2011 - 19:38 | 1423221 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Their standard of living will revert to 2000.  And they still won't be working or worrying.

As for the future, when it's all about kicking the can who gives a fuck about the future?

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 19:53 | 1423244 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

but they'll never get that standard of living again they had untill now

What is "standard" of living?


Mon, 07/04/2011 - 06:38 | 1423761 midnight
midnight's picture

How is Italy a burden, stupid chimp?

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 16:45 | 1423041 zuuuueri
zuuuueri's picture

where the hell do you get that figure? 

i'll agree fully that the country would be better off sacking every last person on a public payroll, but really, unless there are a few people pulling down some tens of millions a month to skew the average, this number is total fantasy. Yes, there are a few pockets, a few organizations ,which are known to be some of the deeper and filthier pits in this cesspool of corruption- the train company for example- where alaries are unusually high.. but most of these useless public servants get paid maybe a thousand a month or so.

if you want to think of it this way, it's even more pathetic that they were bought so cheap! 


Sun, 07/03/2011 - 16:48 | 1423046 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

That number came right from the BBC.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 17:38 | 1423112 wandstrasse
wandstrasse's picture

Athens is the ugliest and dirtiest (European) city I know, the salaries of train conductors, government workers, union workers of state-owned companies etc. are ridiculous, corruption is beyond belief - in brief: Greece is lost (my country Germany is lost, too - but it can raise more debt)... but not letting Greee default and thus steal their chance to have their own destiny (whatever it may be) is a major, oppressive crime by ECB, France, Germany and the TBTF bankers.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 06:01 | 1423738 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

+1 a bit hard and true

by the way, Sudden Debt, you are a lucky bastard: your country does not even have a proper government

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 16:30 | 1423015 G-R-U-N-T
G-R-U-N-T's picture

Greek mother explains her problem....


Sun, 07/03/2011 - 16:32 | 1423021 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

We have created a monster.

Too few of our people stood up to this mutant when it displayed a more benign disposition - now that it has power this abomination is sinking its teeth withen European flesh and is gorging itself

My God what have we done ?

Too few too few were there to warn us - only the orcs of the citadel voices were allowed to speak - the rest were pilloried and erased from our collective conscious.


Too few too few - only the masters servants remain now.


Sun, 07/03/2011 - 16:54 | 1423060 akak
akak's picture

... only the masters servants remain now.

Enter RobotTrader and Leo, stage left.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 17:10 | 1423082 css1971
css1971's picture

I suspect UKIP etc will be getting a boost in future elections.


Sun, 07/03/2011 - 17:43 | 1423113 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Actually, the BNP will get the boost.

Having spoken to Stoke on Trent voters, and rural Lincolnshire voters, UKIP is far too civilised. Nationalism, jingoism and racism in a simple context are far greater pulls. There's a serious reason why the Daily Mail has transformed from 'outraged reactionary' to 'actual revolutionary stance'; they see the death of the middle classes, and they're not happy. [A discussion over the change in tone of the Daily Mail is a serious point for UK politics - there's a reason that they were the most accurate and hardest on Fukushima and other geopolitical topics recently. And yes, saying the Daily Mail has integrity is announcing that cats & dogs love each other to me.]

"Its the immigrants" has far better pull, and serves those enslaving the rest far better than an out of date belief in National sovereignty. Nigel F has, imo, proved he's at least consistent and has authenticity, however none of this matters in the greater scheme of things.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 05:31 | 1423741 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

1. you had a referendum

2. have a second one

3. don't mix the Euro with the EU with the Banking Cartel with NATO with the whole First World Order

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 17:19 | 1423095 Missiondweller
Missiondweller's picture

Better to be poor, free and under the Mediterranean sun than to live as a slave to The EU.


Sun, 07/03/2011 - 17:41 | 1423117 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture


where are those 300 spartans these days?

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 17:44 | 1423120 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

If you're not raised from birth to fight, then the attrition rate is atrocious when attempting to make the transition. That's why Afganistan is where Empires go to die.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 21:09 | 1423273 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Europeans (apart from the Brits) have no real interest in fighting for "national sovereignty". For thousands of years they have merely been sitting in their hovels waiting for the next "change of ownership" to be announced. "Who owns us this week, my dear? Rome? Vienna? Paris? Istanbul? Berlin? Brussels? I'm never sure to whom to send the tax cheque!"

On the other hand, America was founded by those who wished to escape such chains and indeed be free of feudal serfdom. That's about to change.

The people of Afghanistan understand the value of local self-determination ... and they're determined to keep it that way!

The American people of the former sovereign states of Texas (and Connecticut, and Arizona, and........) would do well to consider what has been taken from them, step by stealthy step, by Washington DC in the last 200 years, and the effect on them that Washington's planned final handover to a central world government will have.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 03:09 | 1423680 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Europeans (apart from the Brits) have no real interest in fighting for "national sovereignty". For thousands of years they have merely been sitting in their hovels waiting for the next "change of ownership" to be announced. "Who owns us this week, my dear? Rome? Vienna? Paris? Istanbul? Berlin? Brussels? I'm never sure to whom to send the tax cheque!"

On the other hand, America was founded by those who wished to escape such chains and indeed be free of feudal serfdom. That's about to change.


Made me laugh. So cheap propaganda.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 17:48 | 1423125 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

With all the mystery medicine extending life cycles, the butterfly outwitted his creator. The creator no longer has the money butterfly gave into the trust fund.

As the Bell Rings the Maypole Spins


It has reached a global level. (ESF)


Sun, 07/03/2011 - 19:17 | 1423203 G-R-U-N-T
G-R-U-N-T's picture

Many of those images were moths and what moths are to fabric the Greeks are to the bond holders.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 19:59 | 1423251 Imminent Collapse
Imminent Collapse's picture

Dominoes.  Can't let the first one fall.  Timberrrrr

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 21:11 | 1423331 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

Dominoes?,.....more like an accordion that expanded during the Boom and is now collapsing each debtor by one.

So when does GS post the Acropolis for sale on Ebay?

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 21:36 | 1423359 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

massively limited except when spending other people's children's money

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 21:47 | 1423371 SmittyinLA
SmittyinLA's picture

the greeks wont care until they get foreign tax collectors and bailiffs, then they'll kill 'em and eat 'em. 

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 21:55 | 1423383 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Are there any real Greeks?

I thought the only people living in Greece today are Turk halfbreeds.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 06:25 | 1423387 Zer0head
Zer0head's picture

what's really funny is the flotilla of yachts headed for the Greek Islands

godspeed and may the Meltemi be at your backs ∠ ∠ ∠∠ ∠


Mon, 07/04/2011 - 01:54 | 1423625 Peter K
Peter K's picture

One has to wonder how much more of this the Greek General's are able to withstand. And the Spanish and Portugese General's as well :(

If the Euro was the vehicle to end all wars (European), I think it is having the opposite effect. The law of unintended consequences strikes again.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 03:39 | 1423696 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

"Sovereignty of Greece will be massively limited".............

Are any THINKING Americans writing this shit down?

Do any Fantasy Football Fucks see where this is going?



Mon, 07/04/2011 - 08:19 | 1423841 laserjock
laserjock's picture

And which part of the odious debt consists of Greeks borrowing beyond their means to ensure lifetime sinecures and early pension-padded retirements?  I guess everyone's cool with labelling the entire debt "odious" because everyone hates Eurobankers and the IMF.  What an awesome package deal.

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