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Greed And Fear's Chris Wood On The Timing Of The Euro Endgame

Tyler Durden's picture


From CLSA's Greed and Fear, by Chris Wood, December 23 edition.

The S&P500 remains at post-Lehman highs and GREED & fear remains nervous about a correction. But GREED & fear will also have to admit that the short-term technical indicators long followed here are not sending warning signals. Rather the message is bullish which is one reason why GREED & fear is not reducing the beta of the long-only portfolios.

It is also the case that the US continues to be cut relative slack because of the problems in Euroland. Here the ongoing noise from Brussels makes it clear that the final crescendo of this particular drama lies in the future. With Frau Merkel continuing to talk tough about the need for fiscal discipline, and rejecting euro bonds, it appears that there will have to be more market turmoil before the inevitable decisions are taken. GREED & fear says inevitable because it still seems likely that the end game will involve some form of German acceptance of collective fiscal responsibility and debt restructuring. This is partly because the German establishment is so committed to the euro and partly because of the practical fact that German banks have such big exposure to the debt of the European periphery countries.

The past week have seen further signals that the above will be the end game. Thus, an article in the pinko paper by Peer Steinbru?ck and Frank-Walter Steinmeier, the former minister of finance and former foreign minister in the last SPD government, proposed debt haircuts as well as the limited introduction of European-wide bonds (see Financial Times: “Germany must lead fightback”, 15 December 2010). Second, the ECB announced on 16 December that it decided to almost double its subscribed capital base from €5.76bn to €10.76bn, with effect from 29 December.

This suggests that there is an understanding, despite the official rhetoric, that there are losses that will need to be taken. Still it also seems clear that there needs to be more market panic for such decisions to be forced on the relevant authorities, most particularly Frau Merkel. All this suggests an opportunity for macro investors since it seems increasingly likely to GREED & fear that this drama is going to come to a head in the first half of 2011 and not in 2013 or later.

Moreover the moment some form of credible debt restructuring is agreed, in the form of a European version of the Brady Plan, a bid should come in for the euro against the US dollar and indeed against the Swiss franc which has been the major beneficiary of the systemic surrounding the euro to the chagrin of the Swiss National Bank. But all this lies in the future. For the moment the issue for investors is what will be the catalyst to precipitate the next wave of market turmoil. Will it be Portugal, will it be Spanish banks’ property exposure or will it be a new Irish Government’s desire to walk away from the massively costly bank guarantees committed to by its predecessor? GREED & fear has no idea which will be the precise catalyst. Indeed it could be all of them. But more turmoil is coming which is why the best hedge for those owning Asian equities remains shorting European bank stocks

Meanwhile, the risk to the above view remains that Frau Merkel remains hard line to the end and that German public opinion revolts against taking on any of the periphery’s debts. Clearly, this is possible. But it seems unlikely to GREED & fear given that all the empirical evidence thus far is that when push comes to shove, the Germans capitulate to the political mantra of maintaining the euro.

What about the Chinese inflation story? GREED & fear will not repeat the relatively sanguine view already articulated here. But what is worth re-iterating here is that mainland policymakers are not concerned. The past week has seen more evidence of this. Thus, the Chinese government announced on Tuesday another increase in gasoline and diesel prices. As noted by CLSA China macro strategist Andy Rothman, this is not a signal that the PRC is particularly worried about inflation. Second, the chairman of the China Banking Regulatory Commission (CBRC), Liu Mingkang, made a speech at a financial forum in Beijing last Friday stating specifically that inflation was not a problem because of China’s continuing excess capacity. Thus, Liu said that there remains overcapacity for most industrial goods in China and that it is difficult for upstream inflation to be transmitted downstream.

Clearly, the PRC policymakers could always be wrong. But in GREED & fear’s view the empirical evidence of the past ten years and more suggests they deserve to be given the benefit of the doubt. Still it is also the case that markets are likely to spend the first quarter of 2011 continuing to worry about inflation in China. This is because the mainland authorities are themselves now expecting inflation to peak at about 6% in the second quarter, primarily because of weather related seasonal pattern. Thus, January and February traditionally show strong month-on-month inflation pressures.

Still the longer investors want to look into 2011, the less likely they are to be worrying about inflation in China or the rest of Asia and the more likely they are again to be worrying about renewed deflationary pressures in the West. As for developed market equities, the best place to be remains in those companies whose revenue streams are geared to the emerging markets. This is certainly how GREED & fear’s Japan long-only portfolio is positioned. On that point, the Nikkei published last week an interesting survey of 420 nonfinancial companies that found that 36% of Japanese listed companies’ earning last fiscal year (ended 31 March) came from emerging markets, up from just 9% a decade earlier. The same story applies in the US and European stock markets. But the only domestic story GREED & fear really likes in the West remains Germany and even there the final drama of Euroland’s crisis has the potential to hit resurgent consumer confidence, at least for a while.

There have been interesting developments in the Korean peninsula in recent days. GREED & fear refers to South Korea’s so-called “live-fire drill” on Monday on Yeonpyeong Island and North Korea’s subsequent statement that the exercise was not worth reacting to. This suggests the North is hoping for a resumption of the six-party pantomime, or some variation of it, after the recent flurry of diplomatic activity. Thus, China’s leading diplomat, State Bingguo, has visited Pyongyang and Seoul in recent weeks while an unofficial US envoy, Governor Bill Richardson of New Mexico, also visited Pyongyang last week.

Still if Washington and Seoul decline to be pressured into more talks, the risk to GREED & fear remains of further escalation from the North. For the failure of the South to do anything to stop the death of four South Koreans on South Korean soil, as a result of the violent attack in November, has led to a long overdue wake-up call in terms of South Korean public opinion. The support for the so-called “sunshine policy” has now all but evaporated. Instead there has been rising popular demand, in response to the South’s evident lack of military preparation for the North’s November attack, that Seoul makes it clear to Pyongyang that the next time such an incident occurs there will be a more aggressive retaliation. Hence this week’s military drills.

This is why investors should understand that the risk of military escalation in the Korean peninsula has increased since the government of President Lee Myung-bak has now made it clear to the North Korean regime, via communications with the North’s main ally, namely China, that it has changed the rules of engagement. The message is that if the North launches another attack the response will be to retaliate by launching an attack on pre-targeted strategic assets such as missile sites in the North. The question then becomes the risk of escalation if the North responds in turn to such an attack. In this respect the ability of China, or the lack of it, will become a critical variable given the fact that Beijing was clearly not pleased with the North’s November provocation which put it in a difficult position diplomatically.

Still so long as China is willing to shore up the North, and it is estimated to supply about three quarters of North Korea’s food and oil, it is not clear to GREED & fear if Beijing really has any control over the North’s behaviour. For the Kim Jong il regime presumably calculates that China will continue to prop it up because the alternative is a collapse of the Pyongyang regime which would likely mean a united Korean peninsula coming under the control of a pro-American alliance.

Meanwhile the North Korean interest in launching the November attack was clearly to gain America’s attention. The ultimate goal is US acceptance of the North’s nuclear weapons programme. Hence the not coincidentally close timing in November of the shelling of the island and the decision to show the world the uranium enrichment facility. As for the investment implications, North Korea remains an impossible issue for markets to discount. It either does not matter at all or it is the only issue that counts.


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Mon, 12/27/2010 - 19:09 | 832360 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Germany is playing their cards tight but what are they holding?  I think FIAT has a weak hand and will get flushed!

Germany holding a high pair and gold has the flush!  Get monie!

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 19:26 | 832378 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

Well they never got their gold holdings back , have they?

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 20:07 | 832432 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Good point.  They should try, if they are not, to get delivery on the gold they have on loan from the FRBNY before the Euro, not to metion all FIAT, cashes out.

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 20:10 | 832438 Arius
Arius's picture

the way i understand it (and of course its not the first or last time i am wrong) is that IT IS NOT german gold but it is US Gold which was allocated to germans after world war II to help them rebuilt their country...just accounting gimmics (we are so familiar these days) - thats the reason the gold still remains in NY.  well that's perhaps a fools view...

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 20:18 | 832451 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

That is what the lease contract stipulates.

Hey what is gold doing?  What is silver doing there?  Hey little silver, what you doing there?

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 20:30 | 832469 Arius
Arius's picture

the dolar used to this 1380 thought will be there forever...oopppsss...wrong again...

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 20:53 | 832502 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

The dollar is a worthless napkin.  Gold will be thousands of dollars higher this year.  Silver will be hundreds of dollars higher this year.  '11 will be the year gold rectifies the system.

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 21:21 | 832537 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

Gold and silver are going to explode upwards soon, imho. I sure hate it that bozo in chief, Dennis Gartman is making nice noises about the barbarous metal as of late, even though is a johnny come lately now.

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 21:34 | 832568 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

People put their reps on the line by going toe to toe with gold.

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 22:17 | 832625 Armchair Bear
Armchair Bear's picture

I think you are probably right about this - this will be an eventful year for those of us holding PMs...

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 19:09 | 832361 TooBearish
TooBearish's picture

2011 is the year when systemic inflation blooms in full take the deflation and move on....

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 19:38 | 832362 Quixotic_Not
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Can't wait!

Transferring to PMs enmasse on the next dip (did that 2X before in 2001 & 2003), should be a fun ride watching everyone chasing returns during out-of-control inflation...

Is quisnam panics primoris, panics optimus!

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 19:30 | 832383 Quixotic_Not
Quixotic_Not's picture

Charles Calomiris on Bloomberg TV today:

If rates rise 50 basis points more, the fed is insolvent.

Can't wait to see how they stick it to the taxpayers this go 'round...

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 19:33 | 832385 Samsonov
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Why does this site have a "flag as junk" option but not a recommend option, such as "flag as awesome?"

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 19:35 | 832389 margaris
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because there is always an abundance of junk in this world.

All the awesome stuff gets lost in the shuffle...

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 01:57 | 832894 Arkadaba
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+ one

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 19:38 | 832394 lunaticfringe
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Sorry, couldn't resist junking ya.

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 21:30 | 832558 Eric The Red
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Because people on this site just Junk anything they disagree with regardless of whether its really junk or not.  Dissent is not accepted well on ZH.

So come on, junk me bitchez!!

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 06:25 | 832975 Byte Me
Byte Me's picture

No problemo...

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 21:34 | 832561 Eric The Red
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Mon, 12/27/2010 - 21:34 | 832564 Eric The Red
Eric The Red's picture


Mon, 12/27/2010 - 23:03 | 832692 buzzsaw99
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don't touch my junk.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 01:50 | 832892 vamsy
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People are using the 'junk' feature as a system to vote (similar to ' I agree/Disagree') instead of flaging conversations that are spam or mark the threads that have no relavance to the topics. I think Tyler should clarify the functionality.

I feel the reason most of the people are here in Zerohedge in the first place (atleast myself) is to read the comments that are posted.

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 19:36 | 832391 lynnybee
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I'd also like an "applause" button or a "thumbs up" sign !!   so many great comments !

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 02:00 | 832895 Arkadaba
Arkadaba's picture

doing a applause button means signing in and doing a 'like your post' 

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 02:02 | 832897 Arkadaba
Arkadaba's picture

at least for tomorrow when most of Canada is still on holiday - boxing day - only in Canada.

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 19:36 | 832392 Revolution_star...
Revolution_starts_now's picture

The thing that most don't seem to get is the future earnings. Sure you can buy gold and silver, and it's better than nothing. Take a minute next time you click the "add to cart button" and think about the raw purchasing power loss there. How many oz of silver and gold did your "labor" buy just 10 years ago?

The most heinous crime ever commited upon a fellow man is the devaluation of his current and future labor, and the labor of his kids. It is to sell the unborn into slavery, even if you could put yourself aside, how could anyone allow the very dilution of future fruit in perpetuity?  Who among us would allow this continue if the truth were known?

Let it be known and pass it on. We did not raise the 3rd world up, they sold us into the third world.

Welcome to the decade where chickens come home to roost.

Cockadoodle do, Bitchez

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 19:45 | 832399 Quixotic_Not
Quixotic_Not's picture

Who is this "they" you speak of?

Because from where I'm sitting the 'MeRiKan sheeple have consented for this at EVERY turn, by voting for (D) & (R) Kleptocrats at EVERY election...

When the dollar takes its sudden next drop, and the one after that, and the one after that, ad infinitum until it is totally worthless, I'll be sleeping like a baby!

2012 is gonna be a bitch for the 'MeRiKan sheeple, but I'm sure they'll just have to vote for Change you can bleed in liar again...

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 19:57 | 832418 tbd108
tbd108's picture


Mon, 12/27/2010 - 23:22 | 832719 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture


We can demand justice for the criminal acts of the banksters all we want, but the REAL heart of our problems is that we, the 'MeRiKan people elect the scum who have piled up deficits and debt.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 02:05 | 832898 StychoKiller
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Kinda hard to counteract the votes of the old, senile population that continue to vote for any id10t that "promises" not to cut Social Security/Medicare.  Until they all die off, we're screwed -- fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it), the system will undergo the Great Implosion before that happens!

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 22:07 | 832617 BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

i think Revo star has nailed Bernanke and wall streets crime.


You've been wondering why the shock/horror at QE?

'My gold is up , why bother?  if he stops QE my gold will slow down going up'

'Don't stop Ben - we love it!' you say.

Well there's why it a crime

'The most heinous crime ever commited upon a fellow man is the devaluation of his current and future labor, and the labor of his kids. It is to sell the unborn into slavery, even if you could put yourself aside, how could anyone allow the very dilution of future fruit in perpetuity?  Who among us would allow this continue if the truth were known?


Let it be known and pass it on. We did not raise the 3rd world up, they sold us into the third world.'




Mon, 12/27/2010 - 19:43 | 832398 lunaticfringe
lunaticfringe's picture

Cockadoodle do bitchez? Good stuff....

China is Europe's last hope. I wish the bastards would just let that eurotrash die a peaceful death.

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 19:59 | 832424 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

And if all the US Trash would also die peacefull, the 2 million who would survive would also prosper!


Tue, 12/28/2010 - 03:28 | 832943 Aristarchan
Aristarchan's picture

I'll flip a quarter into the hat to pay for your funeral.

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 21:43 | 832581 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture


China is Europe's last hope. I wish the bastards would just let that eurotrash die a peaceful death.


No. The Church of Rome or it's fully owned subsidiary -Submission- can pick up the tab in exchange of the eurosheeple's eternal submission.

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 19:42 | 832400 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Wouldn't surprise me to see BBVA, STD, HBC, etc. as the top percentage gainers in 2011.



Mon, 12/27/2010 - 21:08 | 832518 Who is John Galt
Who is John Galt's picture

This GUY RobotTrader really is a dumb bitch isn't he?

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 22:19 | 832631 Twindrives
Twindrives's picture


Mon, 12/27/2010 - 23:31 | 832731 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

@Who is JG,

My take is different on RobotT.  He is a TRADER.  It's in his name, and he likes charts & stuff.  Nothing wrong with any of that here in our ZH playground.

But, I am as BULLISH as almost anyone re the price of gold.

a 55,000 dolares, putaz!

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 22:19 | 832629 Twindrives
Twindrives's picture

It would be a pleasant surprise to learn that you croaked Robo.  

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 22:47 | 832655 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Your avi suits your sense of unerring judgment. 

STD, the new RBS, WhoT! 

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 19:48 | 832403 Arius
Arius's picture

korean penninsula really a tender box

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 19:56 | 832414 Revolution_star...
Revolution_starts_now's picture

"tender box" some prefer the term, "population control opportunity". Really depends on where you sit.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 03:29 | 832945 Aristarchan
Aristarchan's picture

Care to give these "population control" folks your address?

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 20:47 | 832491 DosZap
DosZap's picture

I wish that "Tinder" box would just get it over with.

The Kim Dong Fool, has no way to deliver the nuke/s they have, I guess they could drive one up to the DMZ fence line, detonate it, and pray the wind is going South.

I am sick unto death of the little tin horn diktakers, that blackmail the world, with no HOLD cards.

And we let them.Pay them off every other year.

A couple of huge EMP's over them and their toast for years, or better yet, a few neutrons,and seal the deal.

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 23:37 | 832735 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Hey, my buddy DosZap.

I feel the same way about Kim "Mentally" Il Jong, but do remember that the NKs have THOUSANDS of rocket launchers and artillery pieces that would burn Seoul to the ground (Seoul is less than 20 miles from the border).

Yes, the SKs would beat them even without us, but they would lose their city of 16,000,000 people.  Too high a price to invite that war.

We should do a quiet deal with China...

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 23:44 | 832743 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

A fun fact about North Korea.  It probably will be the first Communist country to have three generations right in a row running the joint.

Kim Il Sung, the Great Leader

Kim "Mentally" Il Jong

Next up, 3rd generation creepo Kim Dunghill (hey it's HARD keeping up with them).

Back in the past we called such governments Royalty...

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 00:50 | 832816 Saxxon
Saxxon's picture

They need killin'.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 04:26 | 832958 Dave
Dave's picture

Can't use that reason. NK ain't in Texas.

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 19:53 | 832413 gwar5
gwar5's picture

I wish somebody besides the CBs would be making plans now for an alternative currency/monetary systems. 

Looks like fear and loathing alright. We're all going to be panicked and herded into the Bancor with the IMF as the new world fiat HQ with a UN front.  

Our sovereign better put our gold in a safe place now and tell The Bernank they're fired. The IMF will demand gold to back the Bancor..... for world peace and stability of course.




Mon, 12/27/2010 - 19:58 | 832420 Revolution_star...
Revolution_starts_now's picture

" CBs would be making plans now for an alternative currency/monetary systems. "

I got 3 chickens, hit me back.

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 20:12 | 832440 Kassandra
Kassandra's picture

What we really need is a chicken button.

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 22:03 | 832611 The Disappointed
The Disappointed's picture


Tue, 12/28/2010 - 10:01 | 833103 Drag Racer
Drag Racer's picture

How bout a gold coin as a thumbs up and a 'flag as dollar' as the opposite...

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 21:38 | 832575 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

American States should all charter banks and buy gold on the market to use as collateral.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 01:27 | 832874 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

Kucinich threw this out the other day...

NEED Act (HR-6550)


Tue, 12/28/2010 - 09:52 | 833075 done with them all
done with them all's picture

Looks good on paper, and better than the current scam. I would be in favor of giving it a try

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 10:05 | 833112 Drag Racer
Drag Racer's picture

that is the last thing you want. give .gov control of who gets credit?? you think fascism is out of control now? try putting the fed under gov

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 12:46 | 833632 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

We have a corporatocracy currently, which operates in a fascist manner.  Putting the control of money back in the hands of publically elected officials who can be democratically replaced as needed is absolutely essential to regaining our sovereignty.  It is literally un-American to be opposed to this. 

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 20:02 | 832427 Gunther
Gunther's picture

The analysis of the German position on bailout and eurobonds misses two points.

First, there is a no bailout-clause in the european treaties. An explicit bailout as well as eurobonds would be a violation of the treaty and the German supreme court might declare bailout and eurobonds as against the law and forbid them.

Second, in 2011 are seven provincial elections. As it looks now, the parties in the federal ruling coalition, CDU and FDP, are set to loose in all elections. At one point the politicians might panic and think what to do to get re-elected. Paying for the pigs in banks and the others is not popular with the German electorate. 

Links in German:



Tue, 12/28/2010 - 02:23 | 832907 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

I remember reading Christopher Woods articles in the Far Eastern Economic Times in the late 1980's - he really knows his stuff in Asia. But it may be that since he's been an expat in Asia for so long, that he's not up on the happenings in Euroland.

I agree with both of your points, 1 & 2 - The German electorate will doom any party that votes for bailing out the pigs.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 07:13 | 832987 Eric The Red
Eric The Red's picture

The electorate don't matter in Ireland, why would it matter anywhere else?

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 20:05 | 832433 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

OT - satelite views of empty Chinese cities.  Not really news around here, but the photos might be of interest.


Mon, 12/27/2010 - 21:25 | 832544 bobert
bobert's picture

Thanks for the link!

Time to get those Chinese demolition teams a-going....

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 23:27 | 832728 trav7777
trav7777's picture

LOL...I thought China was the FUTURE.

Their copied aircraft, copied attack helicopter, copied fighter jet and now copied aircraft carrier are going to dominate the world, right?

I tell ya, the only way those cities make money is if they turn loose tourists with high powered sports cars and let them burn rubber up and down those empty streets.

Or else bring in dissidents and start a Omega Man hunting program

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 00:56 | 832824 UGrev
UGrev's picture

Motherfuckin' Chinese just LOVE that movie "Field of Dreams"... pretty soon they'll be seeing multi-mile long traffic jams just to see the empty cities. Fuck, if I were a holywood producer, I'd rent myself one of those "ghocities" and start making ZOMBIE movies!! The kind where ya gotta shoot'em in the head; and none of those "28 days later" zombies either.. I'm talking "walking dead" zombies. 

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 20:28 | 832463 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Any word on the action in eur/usd?

Not reflective in eur/chf.

I hope the $ weakness/ gold strength isn't indicative of Bernanke bailing out Europe again.

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 20:32 | 832472 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

Euro took off like a rocket at 7PM

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 20:42 | 832483 SwingForce
SwingForce's picture

Gold = Shit, Banks are RUINED, what other facts are you people ignoring?  You think the Greeks & Irish will continue to work and pay taxes? Come on, would YOU? Get me a job landscaping pays cash, under the table. 

I'm not a gold bug (obviously) but you think that you will be able to sell to ME when the price hits $50,000 or you need to buy food, are you thinking clearly? You will NEVER get my Green U$D. 

Just a thought, I love you guys, your brains actually think. And i hate to have a Battle of the Wits with an unarmed opponent!


Mon, 12/27/2010 - 20:52 | 832494 SwingForce
SwingForce's picture

The ONLY thing The Benbernank has right is 0.00% Interest- EuroBankstas think they can still get 7-8%, good luck.

The higher the price of gold gets, the less likely I will ever buy it. case closed.


Mon, 12/27/2010 - 23:57 | 832765 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

SwingForce, that's OK with us (not buying gold).  More for us.


ZH friends, remember something else that FOFOA (Head of the Gold Tribe that I belong to).  He mentioned it in a column once and I officially asked him by email to confirm this:

We do NOT need a Hyperinflation NOR a TEOTWAWKI / SHTF scenarios for gold to vault to $55,000.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 01:12 | 832855 Slim
Slim's picture

Honestly, you don't need any of those scenarios to take it to $2m oz either.  It's simply a matter of what people want to pay for it.  Of course that means that $55K and $2m are equally valid, honestly they are both just as valid as $1400oz today, and that's where people should be at least a little concerned.  The further you get from the floor of industrial use the more you are banking on human desire/emotion as you need a buyer who still believes in further upside when you yourself no longer believe in upside and want out of your position.  It is this very dynamic that makes holders of gold so outspoken - marketing and talking the book is essential to making sure they can exit in gold moreso than any other investment.


While people will no doubt believe this is bull or bear depending upon their own view.  This is simple reality.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 07:48 | 832993 Byte Me
Byte Me's picture

I agree that what people pay determines the price but your assertion that this makes other fairytale prices valid is fallacious.

I might consider $1400 but the proverbial will freeze over before I even consider the other two mythical prices.

Sure, they are potential price levels, probably in a fantasy world but that in no sense makes them VALID.

I'm a potential buyer around $740 and $9.50 for the 'other one' and neither of these is very likely in the s/t either.

(Everyone of a permabull persuasion laughed.)

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 12:35 | 833583 maddy10
maddy10's picture

Gold= shit ??????

But this is some shit accepted worldwide over!!

better than colourful pieces paper!

when I don't know which colour paper will fancy people in the future, it's safer to be with barbarians' treasure!

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 00:51 | 832817 Saxxon
Saxxon's picture

That's why you buy it now.  It's the only door out.

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 20:53 | 832504 DosZap
DosZap's picture

You want to get paid with SHIT?,how much shit will it take to feed you?.Will those green $ debt notes be worth shit?.

How many wheelbarrows might you have?.

Do you not think whatever currency comes to the fore, their will be no exchange rate for real money?.

Gold has always been money, your paper debt notes are just that paper.

I think you need to THINK this one thru.

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 21:28 | 832551 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

If gold becomes worth $50,000, how much do you think a bag of groceries is going cost?

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 22:08 | 832618 The Disappointed
The Disappointed's picture

If gold becomes worth $50,000, how much do you think a bag of groceries is going cost?

50,000 FRNs? A weeks worth of groceries costs your whole 401K balance.

Silver Bitchez!

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 22:16 | 832624 bobert
bobert's picture

My 401k will last quite a long time at that rate, however, I hate

the thought of having to cash in one of my IRA's for a weeks

worth of groceries. I wonder where the poster went? He didn't

stick around to debate after bating us. And yes I agree...

Silver bitchez!

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 02:34 | 832919 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

A bag of groceries today is $30, $60, or $90 in FRNs - when gold hits $50k, price of groceries will be the same: 1oz of silver, 2oz, or 3oz. Nice to have some of your collection in smaller ounce denominations, not all in 10oz or 100oz bars.

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 21:31 | 832565 bobert
bobert's picture

I could put a $50,000 FRN aside today in order to deal with

you in the future, however, I prefer to put an oz. of gold aside

which costs me $1380 today but will be worth $50,000 on that

future day that you mention. Which is the smarter move?

I have no doubt that you will not accept gold from me now

or then. (There are and always will be gold buyers and

conversion into FDR's.)


Mon, 12/27/2010 - 21:35 | 832572 bobert
bobert's picture


Mon, 12/27/2010 - 23:31 | 832732 trav7777
trav7777's picture

keep your FRNs,'d never have enough to buy an ounce if shit goes downhill.

Have fun with your jew confetti

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 23:37 | 832737 ZEITGEIST
ZEITGEIST's picture

hey...swingforce..go delve into the history books and see what people in other hyperinflations did and did not education is a terrible thing to waste..even on a monkey...

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 21:10 | 832489 Goldenballs
Goldenballs's picture

When you live in an Ivory Tower,get paid a shed load of money for not doing a lot and delude yourself you have loads of power and Europe is your empire you get this shit.Sooner the EU (spending money like water nations can,t afford,spending it anywhere but in places like the UK) falss apart the better,too Big to fail,Europe is united,Eastern Europe is the promised land,Immigration is good for countries who have no jobs,little housing,knackered welfare schemes,huge debts and don,t want immigration and other such gems of utter authoritarian stupidity,care of the Low Grade Belgian Bank Clerk and the rest of the Euromafia.The English Channel served well since 1066,now they don,t invade they just pass an EU law.

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 20:51 | 832498 max2205
max2205's picture

China has to hold here or the show is over$SSEC&p=D&yr=1&mn=6&dy=0&id=p95393439296&listNum=11&a=162535441

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 04:40 | 832962 Dave
Dave's picture

Cool avatar Max...

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 21:00 | 832510 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 21:15 | 832527 Samsonov
Samsonov's picture

And the point of these graphs?

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 21:38 | 832534 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Asia loves gold, hates Geithner.

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 21:39 | 832578 bobert
bobert's picture


Tue, 12/28/2010 - 02:40 | 832921 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

A picture (or chart) is worth a 1,000 (or, if adjusted for inflation, a quadrillion) words.

Thanks RoboT for your contributions - all the different angles help in trying to figure out this big mess.

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 21:01 | 832511 Atomizer
Mon, 12/27/2010 - 21:11 | 832525 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

If Merkel forces the German people to pay untold billions to feed the Euro blackhole, she and the rest of the CDU will be taking a one way trip to the political Event Horizon.

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 22:33 | 832643 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

There are going to be haircuts regardless as the loses to German banks would be too difficult to contemplate.  Sooner or later the citizens of Germany will join those from Ireland & Greece in covering these monumental loses.  In this I suspect the Ostest with the mostest will be talking up ring-fencing and containment.  At least for the first half of 2011 with this latest rendition of time buying.  I am still looking eastward from Belgium to when the eur/chf causes the cracking of Austria's banks and Hungary's household sector....

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 00:54 | 832821 Saxxon
Saxxon's picture

+ ein.

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 21:20 | 832536 liberal sodomy
liberal sodomy's picture

The "German" government finally got with the times and is loving the diluted currency.  They're a net exporter.  What's not to like?  Freewill and critical thinking have been erased from the German psyche thanks to the same jewish brainwashing that has plagued the rest of Europe and the 'kwa for 90 years.  They won't do shit. 

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 22:45 | 832667 Armchair Bear
Armchair Bear's picture

Germany won't be exporting much when they're under a mile of ice...

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 23:30 | 832722 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

If you made a comment on a blog or in person somewhere, and you were living in Germany, you could be arrested and thrown in jail for daring to say such things. This has happened many times before. Look what they did to that guy Ernst Zundel.

Heck look what they did to that British historian David Irving.

etc etc, and so it goes.

What they want in the United States as they now have just about all over the world, is to silence any and all dissent. This is what the real purpose of the new FCC action of last week about net neutrality

I submit that any talk of a breakup of the EU is total nonsense, for it is written that this new United States of Europe would come into power and so it has. It is part of the over all plan that has been in the works since day one. The EU, no matter what happens is not going anywhere. Anyone and I do mean anyone, that thinks that these countries somehow someway, are in charge of their personal finances, has a big surprise coming. Most of the wealth of the world, is controlled by a very small group of men. It has been this way now for perhaps, maybe 300 years. When these European leaders move their lips and talk, like they are independent, they are just performing on the stage for the benefit of the fools in the audience who applaud and puff up their chests and dream of days gone by when nationalistic fervor ruled the land, or so it seemed. To break the back of this monstrousity it is up to us, the Americans to do it. Everything, all of their plans, all of their machinations, everything depends on America falling into line, like everyone else has. It has taken longer here, than they anticipated mainly because the stupid Americans , even though they have never been free, somehow in their minds, they think they are free. Whne a man thinks he is free, it is a powerful elixor and it stands as a stumbling block to them now ,as they make their push, subtle step by subtle step. Can you hear the foot steps? Many of you can. This generation ladies and gentlemen is the last man standing. Hear me well. Hear me good. It is up to us, no matter how you cut it. It is up to us. The world is watching. They are waiting. When will the Americans wake up? Oh when will it be so? You may say to yourself , why me? Why us? Why now? Why should I give all for the world, for humanity, for people who really don't know me or care about me? If not us, then who? If not now, then when? What people in this world, stand in the way now? Name one country that can stand and stop them? Name one? There is none. To whom much is given, much is required. And to think, many of you ,thought that freedom and liberty were free? Ha, they are not free. They require blood. As each day goes by, they push harder. They show their hand for all to see. Maybe this is a weakness that can be exploited. Someone said the other day on here, relax, the sun will always come up in the morning. It is true. The sun will probably always come up in the morning , at least in our lifetimes. But the sun always came up in the morning for Aleksandr Isayevich Solzhenitsyn while he was imprisoned in the gulag in Siberia.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 00:17 | 832785 liberal sodomy
liberal sodomy's picture

nicely done.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 02:27 | 832915 old naughty
old naughty's picture

HPD, well said.

Hope this post wakes up more.

Thanks for sharing.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 02:35 | 832916 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

David Irving was anything but a "historian".

Read "History on Trial"

Some people are censored not for saying that which is unpopular but for saying that which is made up with no evidence to support whatsoever.

Yes, I know you will say I have been brainwashed by the "evil zionist conspiracy".  I have not.  I am reading a great deal about the influence of zionists in the world and I am developing a serious concern about this issue. 

However, latching on to every mindless "jew hater" does not do reasoned research any good.  I actual fact it does much harm as people can easily point out the the weakness of their arguments and the fact that their ideas are driven by mindless hate and not reasonable research.

Which are you?  Mindless hater or seeker of truth?

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 10:21 | 833153 Drag Racer
Drag Racer's picture

Very good point.

So many times many of us, including myself if I'm not careful, will latch onto a story and blindly believe it because it is what we desire to believe.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 02:47 | 832923 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Wonderful bit of Amerocentric clap trap. Have you ever been out of America?

One world conspiracy theorists continually amaze me...all of you seem to think that tptb are totally single minded and move in lock step. No human group is so organized, there are always dissenters, even among tptb.

As a famous crime boss said when accused of leading an 'organized crime syndicate'..."We weren't very organized"...

You give the clowns attempting to lead this circus WAY too much credit.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 07:29 | 832989 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Periodically turn your telly from old Jerry Lewis movies and check out the recent news out of Ireland, Greece, and Spain. The bank stress tests last year seemed reassurring at the time, no? Yes, clownish.

But, did you also not hear our CB finally divulged 3 weeks ago, after 2 yrs and a lawsuit, that they spewed 9 trillion dollars to CBs all over the world in exchange for worthless derivatives, and such, as collateral? Pretty clever of them not to let that slip out for so long. Also interesting is that the IMF is seriously tinkering with a new reserve currency (the Bancor) just in case all the money goes down the crapper anyway and fails to save the day. The IMF is still part of the UN which is still the mother of all clown cars.   

They all sure seem like-minded and dodgy enough to save themselves first and give the tab to everybody else with strings attached. The Irish were not unique in that view before they were given ultimatums by the ECB.

But you may be correct and not naive. The UK was buried in snow recently after paying CRC (carbon taxes) to stop the global warming that they were warned about. Well, if it's supposed to work that fast, then Phil Jones and the IPCC are not the Saudi Arabia of bullshit afterall and the Brits are weren't duped.  




Mon, 12/27/2010 - 23:50 | 832756 ZEITGEIST
ZEITGEIST's picture

man..are you a piece of work...sad to think you hate so many people...Ill bet your parents kept you in a closet and did not feed you for days..and then blamed the Jews for it...listen up asshole..all RELIGIONS HAVE THEIR CRIMINALS.......JEWS MUSLIMS CHRISTIANS..HINDUS....ALL..GET IT...THEY ARE MONEY WORSHIPPERS...LIKE THE BUSH FAMILY....LIKE THE HOUSE OD SAUD... YES THAT SCUM BLANKFEIN..I AM JEWISH ..SO I GET THE WHOLE BANKER SHIT..BUT IT TAKES A WHOLE LOT OF CRIMINALS TO MAKE THE GAME instead of just dividing us all..which is what they want..try to use the tiny amount of your brain that god gave understand this simple piece...UNITED..WE HAVE A CHANCE...DIVIDED....THEY KILL stop being such an asshole and start to alert others as to the real problem..they are called the Illuminati....they have all kinds of people in the CLUB...they are not religiuos..they are money and power whats it gonna be......time to really take sides..US ..OR THEM...

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 02:59 | 832928 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

+1 Quadrillion

You got it right all the way thru. This thing has nothing to do with peoples religions, it has everything to do with slaves and masters, with fiat money and taxes being their whip. Just go up and down your neighborhood and you'll find many jewish neighbors under the same yoke - the money masters have enslaved us all; Jews, Christians, Atheists, Muslims.....

Don't let them divide and conquer with Black/White/Red/Yellow, Jews/Christians/Hindus BS - it's money masters/elites/Illuminati versus us.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 03:35 | 832949 trav7777
trav7777's picture

the money masters aren't hindus, though.  Jews aren't rightly characterized as a religion, more like a tribe WITH their own religion.  And that religion has a set of morals and standards of behavior in many cases TOTALLY DIFFERENT from what christianity has indoctrinated most anglosaxons with.

If you, tomorrow, began systematically locking up the perpetrators of this criminal banking syndicate, by 5p you would be on CNN as an anti-semite.  The ethnic impact of such an act would be grossly disproportionate in its outcome.  This is also how the SAT gets branded as racist, disproportionality of outcome.

Consequently, I don't want to hear anymore fucking WHINING from jews not in the loop about how "it's not jews," when anybody with a fucking pair of eyes sees that yes, the individuals who are the problem actually ARE jews.  Maybe instead of self-deception, the tribe ought to clean up the acts of its members?  You know, instead of rallying around the clan and adopting a bunker mentality "see no evil" policy.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 06:42 | 832979 ViewfromUnderth...
ViewfromUndertheBridge's picture

You are never going to get to first base given how history dealt with the logical extension of your approach last time.

So how about you work out something likely to get traction rather than turn people away from chasing the criminal banker class because they would not want to be associated with a cunt like you.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 10:49 | 833220 Drag Racer
Drag Racer's picture


I understand that you are sensative to all the 'Jew' statements made, but please try to be understanding that not everyone knows there are differences in a person who is Jewish from blood decendants and others who claim to be a jew from converting to a religion. From my understanding the Rothechilds clan is a convert and not true blood and they are the ones people are mad about and give the 'jew banker scum' mentality its basis.Most do not understand the huge differences.

Educate people. Calling them names will not solve your frustration but only propagate everyones ignorance of the matter. The whole perpose of this site is to educate.

As a Christian, I am fully sympathetic to the history of the Jewish people but also aware they have brought a lot of this on themselves (old testament). My point being is not everyone is in the same place at the same time so educating those on a different path than yours will get you a substantially more results than commands filled with anger.

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 21:32 | 832563 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Old Germany controls the US/South America.

New Germany controls the EU.

Enough said.


Mon, 12/27/2010 - 21:42 | 832580 bobert
bobert's picture


I feel like the audience....

You guys are on target tonight.

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 22:26 | 832640 Gunther
Gunther's picture

Sources, facts?

That the biggest payer/creditor has influence is obvious, but control is a bit of a too strong wording without facts backing it up.

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 23:47 | 832750 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Gunther, old is too much to describe here. Paperclip for the US and Argentina upwards for South America are good starting points.

If you are speaking of now, biggest payer/creditor is surface stuff.

Do you know Merkel is  former (current?) STASI? How she climbed to power? What is her history?

If you start from that bitty top and work your way down and around, you'll get the drift.

Setting off on a journey, will post some links upon landing.


Tue, 12/28/2010 - 08:45 | 833011 Byte Me
Byte Me's picture

Old Germany controls the US/South America.

New Germany controls the EU.

Enough said.


ORI this is utter BS. Old Deutchland barely had any territories outside of Europe and the super duper New Einige Deutchland might like to think that it's Top Dog in the EU but 26 other states will always moderate that arrogance.

Tell us all how D controlled all of the supercontinent south of Canada. I'm sure many here will be interested..

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 11:56 | 833419 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Byte me, I'm afraid this is too huge a topic to put into a simple post reply here. Don't call BS without a little research.

I suggest you Google "Operation Paperclip". For the unfamiliar, that is a very good starting point. Also, for a broad introduction into the nazification of the US scientific/military establishment and especially the CIA. Which is a whole other can of worms.

I also suggest you take a look at this link:

I'll post more as requested.

But you have to drop a lot of pre-conceived notions about the "truth" and "history".

Have fun.  


Tue, 12/28/2010 - 17:00 | 834261 Byte Me
Byte Me's picture

I am moderately conversant with the underlying aims of Op Paperclip and again question you to produce something of substance instead of an obvious red herring.

US acquisition of German scientists hardly results or even leads to German control of the Americas. That's a bit like trying to postulate that "All Roman roads are straight => all straight roads are Roman" .

I'm just not buying it and judging from a few other posts - others aren't either.

(I didn't think it was junkable though - just commentable.)

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 23:13 | 834992 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Byteme, hard to distill 10 years of deep, intense study into alternative everything (history included) with a link. Or a post.

It's basically getting the wool pulled away from one's eyes completely. And destroying all "logical" constructs.

It's all i can say for now.


Wed, 12/29/2010 - 04:55 | 835262 Byte Me
Byte Me's picture

In other words:

You'll make a wild assertion, use misdirection to 'support' it, evade further gentle probing and finally refer to your long standing study path and it's supposed merits.

Congratulations Vivek. You may have missed your metier - you could be board grade material for one of the TBTF financials.

But at least you are a peacable enough soul - even if your understanding of scientific method seems a little undeveloped judging from some of your blogs.

This thread is getting a bit old. We shall surely meet again on others.

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 21:32 | 832566 David99
David99's picture

China opens in red again today

Japan in red as well

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 21:54 | 832600 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

China is a late cycle bull market play.

Nasdaq doubled from 2003 lows to 2005, while China's stock markets pretty much crashed.  In 2005, China turned around and tripled to the 2007 highs.

Same thing will probably happen again.


Mon, 12/27/2010 - 22:04 | 832613 bobert
bobert's picture

You're a bear on China?

I'm fine with that especially after viewing the photo's of Chinese

ghost towns posted here earlier.

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 22:01 | 832607 David99
David99's picture

Hong Kong opened - 327 points in red

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 22:04 | 832612 Threeggg
Threeggg's picture

Hang Seng opened down -330 points

Spain, Italy and Germany got clobbered....




Mon, 12/27/2010 - 22:10 | 832619 bobert
bobert's picture

What a be in a country where a central

committee sets loan interest rates, deposit interest rates,

and prices from everything from RE to chicken soup.

Now: What country am I refering to - China or the US?

Easy answer = both.

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 22:17 | 832626 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Thus, Liu said that there remains overcapacity for most industrial goods in China and that it is difficult for upstream inflation to be transmitted downstream.

This is the central banker story and they're stickin' to it

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 22:18 | 832628 Stanley Lord
Stanley Lord's picture

What about the new FOOD bill that just passed?

 Go Google the "Raisin Administrative Committee" .

This a real committee to control raisins.

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 22:23 | 832635 bobert
bobert's picture

The US congressional system has become a very sick

joke. Wake me up I'm having a nightmare.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 00:56 | 832827 penisouraus erecti
penisouraus erecti's picture


Tue, 12/28/2010 - 10:59 | 833257 Drag Racer
Drag Racer's picture

Ok, heres a good nightmare for ya. Picture Obama, I know scary already, signing the food bill wearing nothing but froot-of-the-loom briefs during a time he is suffering from anal leakage from food additives.

Kind of the way I feel everytime I look at corn now...

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 22:43 | 832656 Threeggg
Threeggg's picture

Is this new  ?

Cafferty Faucher LLP Files Class Action Lawsuit against JPMorgan and HSBC Alleging Manipulation of Silver Bar Financial Products

CHICAGO--(BUSINESS WIRE) 12/27/2010-- Cafferty Faucher LLP ( filed a lawsuit on behalf of a class that includes purchasers and sellers of the iShares Silver Trust (NYSE-Arca “SLV”) and the ETF Securities Ltd. Silver Trust (NYSE-Arca “SIVR”) during the period March 1, 2008 through the present.

The lawsuit alleges that JPMorgan, the custodian of silver backing SLV securities and the sub-custodian of silver backing SIVR securities, and HSBC, the custodian of silver backing the SIVR securities, manipulated and suppressed the price of silver bar financial products, including SLV and SIVR, in violation of Section 9 of the Securities Exchange Act.

If you purchased or sold the iShares Silver Trust ETF (NYSE-Arca “SLV”) or the ETF Securities Silver Trust (NYSE-Arca “SIVR”) securities during the period March 1, 2008 through the present, you may move the Court to serve as lead plaintiff within 60 days. The lawsuit, Case No. 1:10-cv-07768, was filed in the Northern District of Illinois on December 7, 2010 and is currently assigned to the Honorable Charles R. Norgle, Sr.

The case is also brought on behalf of investors who purchased or sold CME Group Inc’s “COMEX” silver futures or options contracts which are traded electronically through the Chicago-based “GLOBEX” platform and through COMEX. On behalf of these investors, the lawsuit alleges violations of the anti-manipulation provisions of the Commodity Exchange Act.

In addition to the claims under the anti-manipulation provisions of the Securities Exchange Act and the Commodity Exchange Act, the lawsuit also alleges that defendants violated federal antitrust law.

Cafferty Faucher LLP (, with offices in Chicago, Philadelphia and Ann Arbor, Michigan, is a national litigation firm that represents investors, businesses and consumers who have been injured by illegal marketplace practices. Firm contact information is available at the above website. The firm has recovered tens of billions of dollars for its clients in cases targeting illegal acts and practices in a variety of industries including securities, commodities, insurance, pharmaceuticals, banking services, medical, high-tech, food and beverage, construction materials, and many others. Combined, the firm’s attorneys have hundreds of years of experience working to recover losses on behalf of clients.


Mon, 12/27/2010 - 22:54 | 832678 bobert
bobert's picture

JPM stock price has rocketed skyward over the last couple

of weeks. They seem to be unaffected by these type of

headlines. Wonder why?

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 23:03 | 832695 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

The lows are likely in for the bank stocks for a decade, at least.  As long as the XLF holds $14.

Huge money is probably going to be made by investing in bank stocks.

Just look at how long this consolidation is.

A breakout out of this consolidation phase could be a move of epic proportions.  If the XLF breaks down towards $13, all bets are off.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 09:41 | 833053 Minyan Vince
Minyan Vince's picture

RT, by your own accord, the market tips you off before a selloff, like bank stocks roll over first....well tell me what you see when you look at the chart above? because what I see is that bank stocks topped in April AND still have not made NEW highs...isn't that the definition of bank stocks rolling over first?

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 22:42 | 832662 David99
David99's picture

China's fiscal revenue growth likely to slow
China's fiscal revenue growth is likely to slow, and the nation will face more fiscal pressure in 2011. That's partly due to planned taxation reforms, said Xie Xuren, minister of finance.
China to continue proactive fiscal policy in 2011
China to raise reserve ratios and interest rates every alternate months in 2011

Mon, 12/27/2010 - 23:16 | 832708 ZEITGEIST
ZEITGEIST's picture

question...were you born an idiot..or is it something you had to study for ?????????

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 00:43 | 832800 Quixotic_Not
Quixotic_Not's picture

Signing off...can't stand this Sea of Noise anymore!

I know what to do, what's coming and who is to blame -- At this point it's all over except the screamin' and dyin', and don't let me get in your way...

"No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people." - PT Barnum

"Remember that a government big enough to give you everything you want is also big enough to take away everything you have." - Davy Crockett

"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong." - Voltaire

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." - George Orwell


Time to get a pygmy pony and ride off to Montana...Time to get out of the way of the inevitable bizarro world the 'MeRiKan Sheeple have demanded and the systemic looting the Kleptocrats are about to finish up!

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 02:35 | 832920 old naughty
old naughty's picture

sad, but true.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 00:35 | 832802 mynhair
mynhair's picture

This effer goes down Tues on EOY profit taking, or I quit.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 00:58 | 832832 Threeggg
Threeggg's picture

Alot of the Blackrock and Eaton Muni's got killed today.

Pennsylvania debt must have some "stink" on it.

Pee-yoo !

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 03:41 | 832950 trav7777
trav7777's picture

There is no fuckin euro endgame.

the people "in charge" are so arrogant and self-absorbed that they will defend this thing to your last drop of blood.

Without the euro, how could germany and france be these mobster states that are looking for pounds of flesh from the periphery?  I mean, fucking Greece and Portugal are their retirement plan!

The EU gave the fucking mercantilists CONTROL of the fucked up is that?  How about we let CHINA set dollar policy?  They'd pass the most vicious austerity TOMORROW if they had the power; they don't give a fuck about us anymore than the Germans give two shits about Ireland.

Watch the euro become the next Versailles Treaty.  The endgame is when the banged-out periphery states become the next Weimar losing their Ruhr

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 08:25 | 833005 Lucius_Junius_Brutus
Lucius_Junius_Brutus's picture

I disagree, something has to give whether now or later.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 11:11 | 833301 Drag Racer
Drag Racer's picture

He may be right about the EU not being allowed to fail. As I see it this whole fiasco has more to do with consolidation/takeover of the smaller banks. Just look how many FDIC rescues or look back to the 1930s. Thier goal is control of the capital and to keep it out of the hands of those 'stupid' people who waste resources on entrepreneurs and less profitable businesses. read more below on their history in the US and the 'banker mentality'...

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 12:18 | 833530 Lucius_Junius_Brutus
Lucius_Junius_Brutus's picture

Will do.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 03:41 | 832951 qussl3
qussl3's picture

>There be a banking paradise in south east Asia with a trans generational transition of leadership. Modern day royalty lives, even in "democracies".

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 05:25 | 832967 Dave
Dave's picture

They have a branch in San Francisco if you "know somebody".

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 04:48 | 832963 David99
David99's picture

ASIC admits fraud

Companies 'hide bad news', says ASIC
Media 'hide bad news'
Fraud Street gang 'hide bad news'
Brokers 'hide bad news'

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!